Event Spotlight: Phocuswright Europe 2026

Our most comprehensive Event Spotlight to date! Recorded live at Phocuswright Europe 2026 in Barcelona.

Over two days at one of the industry's most influential gatherings, Dan sat down with more than 20 founders, CEOs, investors, and analysts to understand what is actually reshaping the future of travel in Europe. The result is over six and a half hours of conversations covering everyting from AI and how it is genuinely being deployed to shifting traveler behavior, evolving business models, and the technologies and companies positioned to define the next chapter of this industry.

What makes this episode special is the range of perspectives in one place. You'll hear where these leaders agree, where they sharply diverge, and which opportunities and challenges they believe will matter most in the year ahead.

A special thank you to Pete, Gene, and the entire Phocuswright team for another exceptional event in Barcelona and for their continued partnership and support of the Travel Trends Podcast.

With this many conversations in one episode, we've made it easy to navigate. Scroll down for full timestamps to jump directly to the guests you'd like to hear from.

5m29m54s -  Siew Hoon Yeoh, Founder, & Managing Director, Web in Travel (Singapore) -

29m55s - John Lyotier, CEO, TravelAI

55m13s - Stuart Greif, Chief Strategy & Innovation Officer, Forbes Travel Guide

1hr23m19s - Andrea Spitzer, CEO, Civitatis

1hr42m35s - Brennen Bliss, CEO, Propellic

1hr58m59s - Alex Trimis - CEO, Welcome Pickups

2hr20m27s - Julie Cheetenham, CEO, TravelCatalyst

2hr38m29s - Seb Herbranda, CEO , Rail Europe

2hr53m26s - Andy Moss, CEO, Mindtrip,

3hr10m28s - Charlotte Lamp Davies, Founder & CEO, A Bright Approach

3hr24m45s - Carolina Castillo, General Manager - EMEA Travel Payments, WEX

3hr39m14s - Erez Bouso, Founder & CEO, Move 

3hr55m20s - Carles Sendra - Chief Marketing and Communication Officer, Data Appeal

4hr13m25s - Brooke Gilbertson, Conference, Events & Experience Leader, WTM

4hr29m27s - CD Lazear, Managing Director, TripAdd

4hr35m51s - Benoit Cercaus, Founder & CEO, OnSpot Travel Group

5hr05m46s - Oz Har Adir, Founder & CEO, Vio.com

5hr20m12s - Eimy Santos, AI Solution Expert, Maya

5hr32m10s - Sebastian Texier, Co-founder & Co-CEO, Jinko 

5hr47m42s - Matte Psatta, Chief AI & Growth Officer, Vola.ro 

5hr55m42s - Nina Lakatos, Business Development Manager, Message.Help

6hr03m48s - Marius Nigond, iWander, CEO 

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Transcript

Live From Focusrite Europe Barcelona

SPEAKER_10 0:05

Hello, everyone, and welcome to a live recording of the Travel Trends Podcast here in beautiful Barcelona at the Focus Right Europe Conference. I'm thrilled to be back for our second year. And the conference is actually going to be moving next year, so we've got to make the most of our time here in Barcelona. And the best way to do that is to interview the most extraordinary guests that come together for this amazing event. And I have the real privilege and honor to introduce our very first guest for this series. She's never been on the Travel Trends podcast before. She kindly agreed to join us for this conversation, but she is a legend in the industry. She founded Web and Travel, which is an extraordinary conference that was acquired by North Star. So she's part of the Focus Right family. She's based in Singapore, and she's a remarkable speaker and entrepreneur and someone that I greatly uh respect and admire. And I'm thrilled that we have the chance to sit down and have this conversation together. Ladies and gentlemen, let me introduce you to now the founder, Yo Su Hun. Thank you so much for joining us for the Travel Trends Podcast.

SPEAKER_12 1:11

Great to have you with us. Dan, well said on the name. What a kind introduction. What an amazing introduction. I'm not sure how I feel about being referred to as a legend.

SPEAKER_10 1:22

Well, you definitely are. There's no question about that. But yes. Thank you.

SPEAKER_12 1:26

Thank you so much. But it's great to be here. As you say, it may be the last, well, it is going to be the last focus, right, in this amazing city of Barcelona. So looking forward to the conversation then.

SPEAKER_10 1:37

Yes, likewise. And we're having this now on the first day, so it's perfect timing for us to have our interview and also discuss what brings you here this year. But before we do, tell everyone about web and travel and the business that you've built. Because when I say you're a legend in the industry, I think most people listening to this will be delighted to know that you're on the podcast listening. Here's the opening interview. So many people know who you are, they've seen you on LinkedIn. But tell everyone the background. How did you start this business? What's your background?

Web In Travel Origin Story

SPEAKER_12 2:04

Well, I come from a little island of Penang, Malaysia. And I have my grounding in travel journalism. So very close to my heart, you know, journalist, getting content, you know, asking questions, getting so I'm not used to being interviewed. All right, Dan. So let's put it out there that this is definitely a flip of the card for me. But yeah, so I started uh web and travel in 2005. So that's why last year at WITSingapore, last October, we celebrated our 20th anniversary. So imagine, I've been around so long, you know. So I've seen definitely the evolution of digital travel. But I basically started with because I really wanted to understand how the internet was going to change travel, right? And therefore how the travel industry in Asia in particular was going to have adapt was going to have to adapt. So we saw the changes uh as it evolved in the US, but I just felt that Asia would follow its own path or would blaze its own trail, right? And so um I wanted to do that and make sure that the travel industry in Asia was on top of trends, right? And figure out how the traveler would change in their behavior, and therefore how we in travel would have to adapt to the traveler. And that has remained sort of the core mission of Wit. Whatever technology has come along, whether it's internet, whether it's mobile, social, and now that word that maybe we will not say then, you know, but it's always following traveler behavior, and I sort of kept that as my North Star.

SPEAKER_10 3:45

Ah, I love it. Well, and interesting the connection between North Star and obviously uh focus right, Philip Wolf, who obviously you knew for many years as well.

SPEAKER_12 3:53

Who I'm absolutely grateful to because you know he basically um introduced me to this world. I mean, he came to our one of our earlier WIT conferences, you know, and he's always been a great mentor and coach. And uh basically he introduced me to Nostar. So I'm eternally grateful to Philip.

SPEAKER_10 4:13

Yeah, an incredible. I mean, uh, another industry legend there, of course, who sadly passed away a few years ago. But for those of you who aren't familiar with Philip and the story of Focus Right, it's very similar to what Sue Hun was just sharing about web and travel was this intersection of the dot-com era and how technology was going to impact travel, which is relevant to the times we live in. The word that you are obviously avoiding, saying that we're gonna hear a lot of times on this podcast is AI. Everyone's talking about AI, and of course we will touch on that, but I think it's what's really interesting with both Web and Travel and Focus, right, is that your businesses were based on that last kind of technological epoch that happened, and now we're going through the next wave. And it's even more relevant, I would say, today for people to understand what's happening with technology and how it's impacting travel. But just before we do, I want to make sure all of our listeners who are multitasking, so it's webintravel.com. If you want to check out the uh plans to be at a future conference or the amazing content that Suhoon and the team put together, tell us a little bit about where the business is today and some of the events that you have on and some of the initiatives that you do at Webin Travel that are unique from everything else that's happening in the group.

SPEAKER_12 5:20

Yeah, so with position within the North Star Travel Group is we get to do the fun things from our outposts in Singapore. Um so we we get to cover really, to me, the fun, exciting emerging markets, right? So we've taken our brand beyond Singapore. We started in Singapore, but we really have taken our brands now to uh South Korea, to Japan, to the Middle East, to uh Cape Town, and this year we are launching in Queenstown as well. So we like to go to places um that are kind of at the edge and where we feel that our brand and the feeling that we bring with our brand can make an impact in the travel community. So we wanna we wanna go to places where we are wanted and then we are in a way needed as well, and then that we can spark a difference.

SPEAKER_10 6:17

Well, one of the things that's also really interesting is that as North Star was acquired by JTB, and one of the big shifts that is going to happen over the next few years is a big focus on the Asia market and obviously Japan. And and I love traveling through Asia. Singapore is one of my favorite destinations. My good friend Robin Yap, who's based in Singapore, who really educated me on not only the Singaporean market, but Malaysia, and there's a lot of misunderstanding, especially in uh Western marketing, about how to market towards Asian customers. And so this is where there's so many ways we can take this conversation. But one of the things I would love to uh to understand better from your vantage point is what is happening in the Asian travel market at the moment and some of the trends you're seeing, since obviously you've got a good understanding of uh uh not only that, but obviously where the industry is headed. So let's maybe talk a little bit about the Asian market, if you wouldn't mind. And given you're here in Barcelona for the European conference, what are some of the things that you're aware of are happening in the Asian travel market that should be interesting to our listeners and to the audience here at uh Focus Right Europe?

Asia Market Signals For AI

SPEAKER_12 7:20

Yeah, I I guess the first one is that that cliche, I mean it's not a cliche, but it's a true one that there is no one Asia market, right? Which is why we have wits in different markets, if Malaysia, Tokyo, Japan. So every everyone is different, but I guess there are always lessons to be learned from Asia, right? So when when the mobile wave came in, uh that's when Asia, even Africa, you know, Middle East leapfrogged.

SPEAKER_11 7:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_12 7:49

And then that was when we saw kind of Asia blaze the trail in product innovation, customer interfaces, the way we reach customers and all that. And I feel that the same thing will happen with AI, right? You know, in terms of how it's changing the front door of travel.

SPEAKER_11 8:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_12 8:06

I think it will change the front door of travel in a way differently in Asia. And I think the West would be wise to look to Asia for some sort of uh trailblazing models, yes, you know, and it could show the way to the future. Yeah, so that's one of the things that, for example, at our conference in Japan, uh, which we just finished, we the the word AI actually means uh I, which actually means love. Right? I need means I love you. You know, not that I love you, but you know, but AI means love, right? And so the Japanese have taken this concept of basically saying, okay, you know, we can use AI to help us dial up the spirit of hospitality in Japan even better, right? So the Japanese spirit of hospitality is omotanashi, which is a kind of uh it's very difficult to define, but it is sort of the ability to anticipate what a customer needs to read a room. And so um they they are trying to figure out how AI can amplify that rather than reduce that.

SPEAKER_11 9:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_12 9:15

You know, so so I think in in the Asian way of developing, I think you can pick out some signals for the future. For sure. I believe that, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 9:24

So one thing I just wanted to underscore from what you just shared that I think our listeners should be paying attention to. Right now, all the focus is on anthropic and open AI and these IPOs, and obviously what we just saw happen with SpaceX, which is definitely connected to AI and satellites and being able to build data centers in space, and you know, the but I there's been such a focus on the valley. But I think we had that moment about a year ago when Deep Seat kind of all of a sudden outpaced some of the other AI companies. And the reality is this is this is a multi-horse race, and China is very active. And there's and and China obviously is one market within Asia, and I appreciate your clarification on that. That's because that's one of the things that Robin had explained to me is you have to be thinking about these as all individual markets put together, it's a massive market. And so I guess two-thirds of the world's population. There you go, exactly. So I think there's more in 2027 that we'll see and learn from what's happening in China and throughout Asia with AI. So I do think that that competitive battleground will continue to uh be shaped, and I think we'll the lessons will be learned for sure. Um, in terms of travel and outbound travel, I know this has been a um you know a challenging year for many companies given what's happened in the Middle East and which uh hopefully is uh getting resolved now, depending on what people are listening to this and what state the world is in. But you know, we've always go through conflicts, Ukraine and then now Middle East. A lot of Australians have not been traveling, and I know Australians have obviously travel a lot through Asia. What are some of the some of the traveler trends that you're seeing that you're paying attention to in terms of uh who is traveling right now, who's holding back this year, you

Regional Travel And Secondary Destinations

SPEAKER_10 11:02

know, where are the opportunities and where are some of the weaknesses?

SPEAKER_12 11:07

I think we're gonna we we're seeing similar trends playing out because of the crazy divided world that we live in and the disruption in air corridors. So, I mean, we we heard at yesterday's uh with focus right Middle East that there was definitely a trend towards regional regionalization, right? Whatever region you're in, Europe, uh Middle East, Asia, we're gonna see more regionalization of travel. Yeah. One trend that was I thought was interesting that was said yesterday was by Muzamil al-Hussein of Al-Mussefa, where he said that the outbound trend in the Middle East was kind of shifting westwards versus east, which means actually opportunities for Europe. So Saudi uh travelers are actually looking westwards and looking for not so obvious destinations. So you you will find that the you know the secondary destinations are not necessarily second best anymore.

SPEAKER_11 12:02

Right.

SPEAKER_12 12:02

Right. And people are actually deliberately seeking out sort of the second best, secondary destinations. We also see that within the wider Asia region, right? Where um people, younger travelers or even the older travelers, because of the social content that's out there and word of mouth and connectivity of low-cost airlines, that they are also going offline. Yeah, right? Finding remote destinations, you know, to get away from the main paths. So I think travelers naturally want to disperse. Uh, and we just have to find a way in our industry to help them disperse as easily as possible. I think there is an innate desire by travelers to want to disperse.

SPEAKER_11 12:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_12 12:46

So there was a we had an event in Kuala Lumpur where we call it our Travel Tech Thursdays, where we have quarterly events, and we had the CEO of Air Asia Move, um, which uh Nadia. And basically Air Asia Move, you know, they they cater to the budget travelers in ASEAN, which is a very big market. And she was talking that, you know, we had low-cost airlines unlock the first wave of travel. Now we need innovative, creative products to unlock the next wave of travel, right? For those travelers that actually want something different. So we get we got to get innovative, not just with tech, not just with tech to find a traveler and target them and sell stuff, but to actually create desire uh and excite them about travel.

SPEAKER_10 13:31

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_12 13:32

I think I I think that's the next unlock for me is like get creative with products and experiences because we've all heard it, like people really want to travel for experiences. For sure. Yeah. So then the other market that I think is worth watching, I mean, China will always be there, like a big outbound market. We're seeing definitely a lot of individual travelers, you know, a braver definitely with social media, with their apps and all that. They're really fanning out. Uh, Korea is an interesting market. It is the second largest outbound market in Asia. Um, the Koreans are intense travelers. Um, you know, I think it's like 28 million trips for a very small population, so high frequency. So they are desirous of travel. And the the other thing is uh in Asia, so I was in Corfu just last week, and I was taken aback by the seasonality of travel in Europe, right? So at Corfu, they they they open the island for five months and then the rest of it, they think, well, it's too cold, there's no sun. But actually, you might be able to target Asians to come during the off-season, right? Because Asians actually don't want the sun and we don't want the beach because we get lots of that, right? So we actually want to go uh somewhere as cool or cold, you know. So I think if we think about deliberate, um intentional dispersal of travel, we might actually be able to build sort of a more equitable, sustainable, you know, tourism for the world. For sure.

SPEAKER_10 15:04

Yeah, you've hit on a number of really interesting points there. And uh obviously the regional travel is one that's to me uh recently having a conversation with airlines around South America, and I was asking them about inbound to South America, and what they were telling me is how much regional travel is now happening in South America, that you have Brazilians that are going to Chile and Argentina, and they're they're doing a lot more traveling just within the continent themselves. And that's really exciting for companies to realize that more air routes are being opened up, more hotel accommodation, like that region. So that that's no one's actually shared that on our podcast before. You? So I think that's something I wanted to underline to our listeners that that's something everyone needs to be paying attention to is regional travel. The people traveling within North America or within Europe. If they're not going to do larger international trips, we're certainly seeing more domestic travel, but the idea of just staying within your region is fascinating. I've obviously I totally agree with you about experiences.

The Return Of Analog Travel

SPEAKER_10 15:57

The other thing I wanted to ask you is in the age of AI, the human connection and the importance of a human. And I would love to get your take on this because in our summit later this year, we did uh in 2024, we did the first kind of AI summit, and it was like how AI was going to impact travel. And then last year we did uh our summit focused on how it is transforming travel, like with real use cases. Now we're also seeing a lot of pushback uh around AI and a real focus on where humans are still relevant. And the travel industry, the one thing I'm very bullish on about our industry, obviously we've got a lot of things going in our favor, demographic factors, for example, the aging baby boomers, a lot of desire for travel. I would love to know from your vantage point where humans are still relevant, because you have been in this industry, you're this wonderful human that has this great uh uh stage presence and people gravitate to you. And so there's a there's a strong desire from all of us to have we all crave human connection. It's why we're here at a conference in the first place. So I think it's sometimes the thing that gets lost when we talk about AI and technology is what role humans will still play in this and how important humans are in the travel experience. So I guess and I know you're also very well read, and you obviously have um you know well-informed opinions. So I would love to ask you what your view is on the role of humans in the travel industry as all these companies rush to embrace AI.

SPEAKER_12 17:17

I I think humans will become even more important, actually. You know, I think that we are at a time where people are actually questioning questioning humanity itself, right? And what does it mean to be human? Um, you know, and travel, we can't run away from the fact that it's essentially a physical industry, right? Like maybe, you know, if in I don't know, 50 years from now, we can send our avatars to travel for us, but for now we have to travel for ourselves, right? So it's a very physical industry. And I think, you know, one of the questions that we're gonna ask at WITSingapur, um, which is coming up in October, is actually will travelers pay a premium for the undigitized, right? And I sense that people will. Like in within Asia, we are seeing a uh growing demand for analog experiences, right? They call it analog, but you know, I mean it's called analog now, but people want to do like you know, uh pottery classes and and you know, and and making candles. You know, people want to do those sort of physical things that are tactile, right? And in Japan, one of the uh one of the most uh best-selling experiences is how to make the katana sword, which is used by the samurai. So I think people are actually craving that touch again, that you know, to be able to make things by hand, right? In the bookstore now, you can actually buy an analog pack, which has a notebook with a pencil and you know, stuff that we threw away, but now it's coming back. So I think for every for every progression there is a backlash, right? In Asia, the backlash is never as violent as it appears to be in the US, which is I don't know, it's a crazy country, but but the the back the people are much more pragmatic, right? And they will say, okay, I will I will use AI to do what I can, but I'm gonna actually amplify the human experience. I'm gonna amplify the way I I offer my services, you know, and and be more personal. So I mean, I look listen, I'm an optimist, right? And I believe I believe humans will become even more important in travel. And hopefully we will be freer because we can use, you know, AI to do a lot of the stuff that we don't want to do. Um, but it's our choice. It's our choice to decide what we want AI to do for us. It's not AI's choice, yeah, it's our choice. Yeah. So we should we should be ruling, we should be ruling the world and not letting AI take over.

SPEAKER_10 19:57

Well, there was a great commencement speech that um a uh comedian in the US and he uh talked about the the responsibility of this generation is to destroy AI. And there is this pushback where people don't trust it, and also this question, you know, when you mentioned about when we have more time, there is that we become more efficient, and this question about universal basic income when we're gonna have more time to travel, what does that actually look like? When we finished our IGENTIC uh in-person recording, we had a number of people comment about the pushback on AI. And uh, I had made a comment about this trip idea that I had to travel like it's 1995. And so to travel when you still have to use phone cards and go to a phone booth, and you, you know, your internet was very limited, but you still have to go those cyber cafes. So you could be connected, but you could choose when you were needed to be connected. And the rest of the time, you know, you'd get off at a train station, or one of our most memorable trips. We did Southeast Asia for three months before we moved to Australia, and we went through uh Vietnam and Thailand and Cambodia, and then we uh everyone told us you have to go to Malaysia. And we went to Singapore and then Kuala Lumpur, and then we spent two weeks in Malaysia exploring around with no smartphones and just getting off trains and meeting people and finding finding our way around. And going back more recently with our kids, all of a sudden we were getting in, you know, we were using Grab, and it was I I still enjoyed the travel, but it was it lost the magic for me of like what was so enjoyable. Sometimes it was the hardship, but it made it so much more interesting. And and so I agree with you. I do think this analog, I think there is a potential there, a trend there that companies can focus on to put the technology down and really connect with other humans.

SPEAKER_12 21:31

Use the technology to do what it does best, right? And then then we humans should think about what it is we do better.

SPEAKER_10 21:38

Yes. Well, that's awesome. Well, tell us a little bit about what's ahead for you, and both with obviously the conference coming up in October.

Expanding Conferences And Emerging Markets

SPEAKER_10 21:45

Um tell us a little bit of what's in store for webin travel and wit, because obviously, even though it's been acquired by North Star, you are very much running that business. It's still very much your company and your business to run.

SPEAKER_12 21:56

And obviously, um No, no, I have to, you know, on such a Airups, you know, still numbers to be met.

SPEAKER_10 22:04

But you are, you know, you're the face, you're the brand, you are, and you you do such a great job with it. So like um tell us a little bit what your plans are over the next kind of six months uh and the year ahead for web and travel.

SPEAKER_12 22:18

I think I'm I'm just like a typical entrepreneur where um I don't have much of a plan then. But I am very open, uh I am very open. I'm very open. So, you know, last December I did not think that I would be launching an event in Queenstown in July. Right. I did not know that, right? Until I got a phone call from Roger Sharp of Technology Queenstown, and he had attended our event in Japan, and he was kind of taken up by the impact that we were making in the local community, and he basically gave me a call and said, Would you want to have an event in Queenstown? And I said, Why not?

SPEAKER_11 22:59

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_12 22:59

Uh because of that Queenstown, I mean, who would say no to that? So I think um I I I I'm sure North Star would like not want me to say this, but no, I follow my heart. I follow my heart. Um it's where people want us, where they think we can make a difference. Um and that's where I want to go.

SPEAKER_10 23:24

Yeah, I love that. And I uh and I'm glad you can say that. It's like and and I think that's for those people who are just getting to know you, and um, that's very endearing because it it's it's very honest, it's very transparent, and it's very real. And that's you. That's your you know, your very personal brand. So I'm so glad that Pete Como, our common friend, uh, when I spoke to him at dinner last night, I mentioned that you were gonna be interviewing with me. And he's like, Yes, I I encouraged her to join you, but it sounds like yeah, you were very keen to do it. I'm like so thrilled that we find out.

SPEAKER_12 23:54

I I don't need encouragement, but it's just that you know I I am not used to being interviewed, so yeah. But you're a very kind interviewer.

SPEAKER_10 24:02

Well, and uh for me, obviously, as it's just like the greatest respect and aberration because you do this, you know, so well. And so um I wanted to be prepared. But just to just to finish up, one more thing I wanted to ask you too, is with us here in Barcelona, what brought you to Focus Right Europe this year? What are some of the sessions you're gonna be involved in? What are some of the things that would be interesting for our global listeners to know about what's happening here at Focus Right Europe?

Why Disruption Rewards Great Questions

SPEAKER_12 24:27

Yeah, I I have been part of Focus Right Europe since Dublin, actually, when they were in Dublin, then we went to Amsterdam and here. But this year, specifically, I came here to run the WIT Focus Right Middle East, uh, which was actually originally scheduled to be held in Dubai in May, but clearly we couldn't. And so I called Pete to say, hey, you know, what if we integrated the two events, right? And and have uh Middle East the day before. And it was pretty hard putting everything together, but we did it, you know. And last yesterday I felt I felt that it was really important for us to have a conversation about the most important region uh despite whatever is going on. That we still we still needed to keep that conversation going about the Middle East because it's not going away. Right? And from the conversations that we had, it's definitely uh it's gonna still be a growth driver. We just need to sort out all that political mess, which you know who started. Uh so but it it was great to I I I find that physical events are actually very good healing places and also very good um opportunities for people to build new relationships, right? So I yeah, so it was important that we do the Middle East event here, which I'm glad we did, but hopefully next year we get to do it in Dubai, you know. And then here I always run an event uh I always run a session called Wit Europe, uh, which Focus Right kindly gives me some time. And I curate sessions that focus on emerging markets. Yeah, that's that's uh that's what I bring to the Focus Right conference. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 26:05

Well I heard so many positive feedback from guests that were I had I heard so much positive feedback from attendees of the Middle East sessions yesterday, including uh Stuart Grife, who runs uh Forbes Travel Guide, he'll be part of this episode as well. He was taking pictures, sharing some of the stats, and posting them on LinkedIn. And so this is where there's so much that you offer to the industry with the work that you're doing, and not only in Asia, but the conferences you're attending. I want to make sure that all of our listeners know where they can follow up or connect with you. What would be the best I've mentioned the website, I know you're active on LinkedIn as well, but what would be the social channels if people want to follow your work and uh and stay up to speed with some of the reports that you're working on or you know the conferences you're attending and what you're sharing?

SPEAKER_12 26:49

Well, I think the website would be the best one, and uh we we have a weekly newsletter, so they can subscribe to that and uh and I have LinkedIn. Perfect.

SPEAKER_10 26:59

Well, I get that newsletter, it's excellent as well, so I definitely encourage people to sign up for that. And uh that's one of the beautiful things about Focus Right is all the research and the reporting to be able to come to an event like this. And you you're right, being at an event like this, there's a certain element of healing because the number of people that come to uh and are at the dinner functions and they're all trying to trade stories. What are you seeing? You know, what like everyone wants to have a direct conversation with each other about their booking activity and to have honest, uh open conversations, which is what happens here. It's very refreshing. When you have senior executives that are able to actually kind of open up and say, this is what we're seeing, we're struggling in this market, what are you seeing? And it's really helpful for each other.

SPEAKER_12 27:36

So Dan, may I ask you something? Uh what's your background? Are you a journalist? So you you came in from journalism?

SPEAKER_10 27:42

No, I I think I that's a very kind compliment. But no, I was a travel industry executive for about 20 years. So my focus for this was actually kind of executive to executive conversation about business strategy. Um, but I try and always do my homework before meeting anyone, so then that's where the journal, and I always try to figure out what's the through line that'll be interesting to our audience. And ultimately, what I'm trying to do is share insights that will be valuable to people to grow their careers or build their business in the travel industry. That's that's ultimately my objective with these conversations, is what would we be able to talk about? Because I have the privilege to speak to you. What are some of the questions I can ask you that would be really valuable for those people that would love to have this opportunity?

SPEAKER_12 28:18

Well, firstly, congratulations on having built this up, you know, um at a very crucial time. So, what I think uh for me, uh somebody was asking me, like, what does it feel to be a journalist at this time, right? Yeah, and I feel that any moment of disruption is a great time to be a journalist. A great time to be a journalist is when people are actually asking more questions than they have answers to, right? And it's in the questions that you find the answers. And as a journalist, um what I find fascinating is therefore having people ask a lot of questions now, because in the past they would just throw answers at you. That's not so interesting, right? Yeah, asking questions is the essence of life, and one skill that we need in AI is to be able to ask AI the right questions. Very true. So maybe this swing will prompt people to ask the right questions. Because I hear so many questions being asked, and nobody has the answers. I think it's a great time to be in content. So I think you picked a the right time to launch this podcast.

SPEAKER_10 29:23

Uh thank you very much, Suhuna. It's obviously uh my heart's grown two sizes over the course of the last three years by virtue of you know really loving doing this podcast, having the privilege to be in an event like this and be able to sit down with you. So thank you for that kind compliment. But ultimately, thank you for making the time for this. Thanks for everything you do for our industry. I will continue to follow your journey and look forward to having you back on the podcast in the hopefully near future. Um, but good luck with the rest of the conference and I look forward to keeping in touch.

SPEAKER_12 29:49

Thank you, Dan. It's a pleasure, and I'll see you in Singapore.

Travel AI Rebuilds After The Pandemic

SPEAKER_10 29:54

Our next guest here at Focus Right Barcelona is a uh a very good friend of mine and someone that's been a big part of travel trends over the years. He is the uh CEO and co-founder of Travel AI, John Liotier, and he is here with me at the conference, and I'm thrilled to get the time together in person because not only will uh travel AI be a part of our summit later this year, as they have the last couple of years, but he's someone I always point out in the industry as I was doing a dinner last night that really knows where this industry is headed, really obviously grasp AI. So travelai.com is the website that you can check out. And he's also got this huge launch here that I'm gonna get him to tell you all about. But John, welcome back to Travel Trends. Great to have you with us again. My pleasure, glad to be here. And so you have a very specific purpose of being here for this event. But before we get into that, for those listeners who are not familiar with this amazing company that you've built, give everyone a little overview of Travel AI.

SPEAKER_14 30:53

Sure, I'll sort of take you on a bit of a journey. We had a successful company before the pandemic uh that did not survive the pandemic, and uh, but really we had a company that was operating a series of micro metas. Uh so if you think your skyscanners, your chivagos, we basically were doing that uh across a whole bunch of niche brands. And uh when the pandemic happened, the company got wiped out. We started all over again in sort of spring of 21. Uh but we realized that what we were doing before was right, but we had a chance to basically superpower with this new thing that everybody was talking about, or about to start talking about. This is sort of even the early days that um we knew AI was gonna be absolutely transformative for the entire industry. We um acquired the assets of the predecessor company because basically they wanted the server to build all the data. But um as a as a company, we can sort of continue on that brand to build up our our series of um hyper-personalized niche brands, but really all those hyper-personalized niche brands give us a playground to experiment and apply AI in new and innovative ways. And that's really what we've been doing over the years.

SPEAKER_10 31:55

Fantastic. And I just want to call out to our listeners as well. If you actually uh look back at some of our episodes, we did a um John has been on our podcast a few times. We did a uh event spotlight. Uh he's joined us at Focus Right conference before, but we actually did a specific deep dive into his business and his company with his co-founder as well, who's now retired. Now retired. Yeah, which is amazing. Uh very happy for him. But the um I want all of our listeners to actually go and check out that uh Chris Jensen um is the co-founder. So go and check out that episode if you want to learn more about the amazing backstory because it's really worth taking the time to understand their business pre-pandemic. And it's a perfect example of a company that embraced AI early with a team that's savvy. Obviously, John's background is marketing and branding, and um he has a great grasp of technology, but it's one of the things you'll first point out is that like your your background is not technology. Um, and I actually think that's a compliment in the way that you've approached the products and the services you've introduced. But it's an amazing story of the number of websites that you're going from 800 to 8,000 using AI to spin up these sites. And so for a while, you guys were sort of hiding in the shadows a little bit. Um you kind of step back because you have got such a successful business that why do you need to otherwise go out and uh uh and shout about it? Um but you doubt you now actually have something you're very keen to shout about.

SPEAKER_14 33:18

We we do. It's um we like being quiet. Uh it it's we um we're basically a whole team of introverts and and we're not ones like to shout from the rooftops too often. Um but we uh launched that on Monday, so two days ago, uh or yesterday, I don't even know sure what day it is now, it all kind of

TravelerMD And Travel Memory Files

SPEAKER_14 33:36

blends together. Um, a new product called TravelerMD. And Traveler MD really is a markdown file for those familiar with markdown files and use of Claude or OpenAI and some of the other models. A markdown file is a series of information or instructions that you can give to a model to um to understand. In our instance, we've created TravelerMD and TripMD, or a series of TripMD files that sit within a TravelerMD. And that is kind of why we're here at the show. We have a chance to sort of um tell the world, hey, we've been working on something kind of cool underneath the um underneath the surface there for a while, but now we get to tell the world about it.

SPEAKER_10 34:16

Yeah, it's fantastic. Obviously, uh Brianna is here with you as well. Brianna was actually on our agentic AI series, and it was one of our most popular episodes in that three-part series. And Brianna is an amazing speaker, she'll be at our our summit later this year as well. Uh Traveler.md, just for all of our listeners, it's Traveler with one L. Um, so the American spelling, even though he's Canadian like me and obviously Australian, so I just want to make sure everyone finds the uh the website. I was reading through the press release yesterday with great interest and talking about the number of colleagues because I think this is a massive opportunity and like a perfect time for you to come out with this technology, which I know is still in beta. But tell everyone this concept of turning any LLM or agent into your personal travel assistant. Tell everyone a bit about the background on this and even the domain as well, because I think there's an interesting story of how that collects.

SPEAKER_14 35:06

Lots of different stories there, but uh you and I have talked before about our vision of the the agentic network. And we've gone from the Information Superhighway from 95 to 2010 uh with basic internet sites, and people took the information and put it into um put their brochure online, if you will. And that ushered in the whole age of the of the booking.coms and the expedias and the trip advisors and those large first generation of the digital travel companies. Um of course they built on the backs of the giants of the all the existing travel companies that were there before. Um fast forward then from basically the age of 2010 through 2025, which was the um mobile social phase of travel, where you had Airbnb and Uber, um Instagram, TikTok, all those companies launched within very short order of each other. But we're about to go into the age of the agenc network. And an agentic network is one in which you have the supply and demand or the traveler and the travel supplier being augmented with an AI agent who's capable of giving more and more instructions to that thing. Uh so we've been trying to build that for a while, and we've uh really all of our sites that we've been building are part of this agentic network, but we quickly realized that in order to deliver the on-the-prom Sagentic network, you needed to have a verticalized memory. And vertical memory is really what Traveler MD is all about. If you think about it from the context of um OpenAI or Claudia, whatever your your audience is using these days, that's very much a generalized memory. And generalized memory, um, it does know you, and it basically the more you use it, the more it knows you. But a vertical memory, it can be augmented to that generalized memory and go deep into that travel sphere. So from our perspective, we're able to go out and build it, and really what we ask uh of the entire industry is that uh anybody can contribute to a traveler MD file. We're not the owners of TravelerMD, it's the traveler who actually owns that file, and then bring it with them when they go to interact with any travel company, and the more companies who use it, the more valuable it becomes.

SPEAKER_10 37:08

Yeah, and this is super exciting. I was just, as our listeners heard uh talking to Suhoon from Web and Travel, and I was asking her about where do humans where is the role for humans in the age of AI and travel? And there and this is a great follow-on from that conversation because when you can use AI to really enhance the travel experience, but still have the human connection when you're in destination. So uh let's break it down from a traveler point of view, and then I want to break it down from an industry point of view for most of our listeners that are gonna want to figure out how to partner and connect with you and what this means for them. But let's start on travelers first, because you mentioned Traveler MD and TripMD. So two files, one memory. Uh TravelerMD is uh who you are, TripMD, as you were mentioning, is what you're planning, and the two of them uh combined together. So, from a consumer point of view, walk us through the experience of getting set up and what the benefits are for a consumer, for a traveler using this uh tool and platform.

SPEAKER_14 38:04

So uh this goes back to being in the beta side. It's there is some complexity in version one in some of the setup. Um we have uh one can go to travel.md today. Uh well I'll come back to the one L and two L thing because we actually do that from internally, but maybe we'll do that that offline. Yeah um but uh somebody could go to travel.md today and uh start interacting either through chat or through voice uh and basically create a travel profile. That travel profile creates a markdown file that you can then connect into uh your existing models from there. But uh right now it has a a voice conversation that does onboard you. So it's like hey, hey Dan, uh uh says this either male or female voice, depending on what you you've elected to talk with. Uh tell me more about yourself. What's your travel profiles? Do you like the window seat or the aisle seat? All those uh base questions that that uh model will start interacting with. But at the same time you do that, every time you say I'm thinking about a trip or planning a trip, and then that especially once you've it becomes super powerful once you've connected it into your existing LLMs. If you connect it into Claude or connect it into uh ChatGPT, but if you connect it into to Claude, you're having a conversation with Claude about I'm thinking about a trip to to go to Barcelona, um, it basically gets uh

Warm Start Personalization And EU Compliance

SPEAKER_14 39:20

automatically added into you as a trip MD, as a subset of the traveler MD. Um all that information is stored in basically in perpetuity, but it's not stored with us, it's stored with the traveler themselves who really owns that individual file.

SPEAKER_10 39:33

So this is important because it actually just came up in a round table I was running about who owns the arrival experience, is the expectation is that uh who who owns, and ultimately the feedback was the traveler owns that they're there it's their responsibility. And this is a very much important question when it comes to data. Who owns who owns your data? The reality is a lot of companies harvest your data, but the most empowering thing as a consumer um uh purchasing online is to own your own profile. And this is what excites me of what you've built, because one of the common themes that came up when I was at the aviation festival a couple of weeks ago doing an event Spotlight is the uh conversations all revolved around airlines trying to make sure, from a consumer point of view, that you remember them. That their biggest frustration for people using their platforms is remember me. Remember me across everything. If I call in, remember me. No, like it's a because unfortunately, all the different touch points, you're using chat, you're calling the phone, you're using the website, and there's limitations to the understanding of who you are and what you're trying to achieve. And I I actually it really stood out to me as like the and then when I saw the launch of what you've been building, it's like this is the ultimate tool to like remember me. Exactly. If I've told you, I don't want to tell every platform multiple times.

SPEAKER_14 40:44

We used to sort of use the analogy of you call into a local cable company, we're both Canadians, so you call into Rogers or or or or Talus or Bell, and it's sure it exists around the world the exact same way. You explain your issues and you say, oh, you have a small business account, let me transfer you over and you have to explain yourself all over again. And that's super frustrating, but that's exactly what's happening in travel. The uh for for years and several large companies have talked about the idea of this connected trip. And the connected trip is not um uh it shouldn't exist because it doesn't exist for the traveler in any one particular company. We bounce from a a planning service from a tour company to a flights company to a activities to restaurants to everything basically that makes the full full travel experience. But every time you go to a new company, you have to basically train that company on your data and who you are. And that's just wrong. Um and uh I think for um most travelers, they understand that, that they should be in control, but all of these platforms have typically been uh keeping that data as they're locked in secret and only force you to use it in that system. Um we're trying to sort of break that mold a little bit and say that the the traveler is in control of the data, the traveler owns the data, and the traveler should be able to take the data with them wherever the platform happens to be.

SPEAKER_10 42:02

And so let's talk about what then that means for a travel provider. And so if you have your traveler MD where you've got all this information, you can obviously then choose who you're gonna share that with, which is you know, giving permission access to this ultimately rich traveler content is incredibly valuable for OTAs, hotels, airlines that then actually get to instantly personalize the experience based on what they now know about the guests. So tell us where you are on that journey with now working with partners. I know you've got a number of verticals there. Is there one area that you're focusing on first? How how are you looking to roll this out?

SPEAKER_14 42:36

I I think the so let's back up a step. Um I think when you look at the personalization which you just mentioned, um personalization really requires a grounding in a set series of facts or information. Uh your travel profile consists of information that is about you, um, but it's not the it's not the binary ones and zeros that most the old old fashion systems are. Um because the markdown file is really in plain text, easy to understand, it can start to communicate nuance in ways that you couldn't do before. And that nuance is really where the personalization secret really lies. So from from our perspective, we're really starting to figure out um uh our our our first proof of concept is to deploy Traveler MD across our own network of sites. Uh and we have a few launches that are coming up with new brands that will be be out there. I'll maybe mention that to you offline here in a in a second, because there will have more news coming out uh in not too distant future. Um but really what uh once we can sort of prove it on our own site that we can get a warm start conversion uplift, which is really what it's uh it's about, um, then we want to make sure that we can work with others in the industry to help them achieve that warm start uplift as well. Um but because what when you're using Traveler MD, it doesn't mean that you have to get rid of your own data. Uh you still have your own data, you have your own proprietary data, but now you can also benefit from the shared shared list. Earnings of that what the traveler option to share with you.

SPEAKER_10 44:03

Well, the one thing that for those of our listeners that are just wrapping their head around Travel AI and having a look at travelai.com is the number of brands that you have. I mentioned the 800 to 8,000, but there's more than 500 consumer brands that you have under your portfolio. And the reason I mention that now is because you've been able to test this within your own platform and network and now making it available to other partners. So you know it works. And then obviously now with with the launch here at FocusRight Europe, the key the at an event like this, you've got obviously many of the most uh senior executives throughout the European market. Why did you guys choose to launch now and in Europe?

SPEAKER_14 44:41

Um well I guess it goes back to some other products we're building as well. Uh we we know that Warm Start personalization is um is what the travel industry's been looking for. Uh we have another initiative that we've been working on, uh not launched yet, but it's all in the area of governed memory. And governed memory really is um how to provide a control plane or audibility traceability for

Developer Tools And Consent Architecture

SPEAKER_14 45:06

companies to show how they've done AI personalization properly. Um that product basically is the painkiller while the vitamin is Traveler MD. So uh, but those who basically suffer from that the most are EU companies. Yeah. So it where you have uh the new EU AI Act, we have different different GDPR regulations. Um so in a way we've introduced this one product first, the TravelerMD file, which is this massive vitamin to help you on the warm stock personalization, but you can't really do that unless you have the government memory on the other side, which is really providing that um control plane to make sure that you can provide the traceability and audibility of your AI actions. So it kind of has two products, one's launched now, one's be launching uh probably later this year. Um but it's more the behind the scenes of stuff we're working on.

SPEAKER_10 45:52

Now you're a branding and marketing guy. Yeah. Explain for all of our listeners the.md. I think that's actually it's a it's a clever uh marketing angle, but some people might say MD, WebMD, is this.

SPEAKER_14 46:04

Yeah, it's my my wife included. She was giving me a hard time saying you guys don't have a travel b uh medical, although medical tourism is massive. Um, and we we are having looking trying to identify a good medical tourism brand. Um so it for those who are on the bleeding edge of technology, uh, you really have markdown files or .md files, skills.md within Cloud and other platforms. So basically we've been uh knowing that our first customers really are those bleeding edge users. We're really trying to speak to those users first. I I think in due course, probably many travelers will never realize that there is one product called TravelerMD. Uh they'll just be dealing with the personalization across the things. But it's it's a bit of a yeah, it's it's it's a it's it's very much a technical name as opposed to a um a person like we we we in some instances we're very good at branding, very good at names, and other times we're not. We we had this idea of a traveler action model TAM before. We had shared vector traveler protocols. Uh we had all sorts of different acronyms for doing different things. But uh this is the first time we've like I am even wearing a t-shirt today that says travel MD. So we're going with the brand, but part of that is to uh communicate. Uh the.md domain is a Moldovan domain, which has been a different um thing. You know me, I love my domain names, but trying to procure some Moldovan domains has been a bit of a challenge.

SPEAKER_10 47:25

Yeah, and I wanted to make sure you highlighted that because I'm sure people were also that's the trivia question is what is MD kind of like uh.tv, which is Tillavu. And so you have all you know that first wave of um top-level domains and how they got parsed out around the world, and some countries really benefited from that. And then you and so one of the things you mentioned there about the branding, some of the branding actually just works really well for developers because you speak their language, and this is a good example of that. And I know you do work with developers. So given that we've got a lot of uh listeners globally, that's you know, we talked about the traveler experience, we talked about how travel providers are gonna start to be able to work with you, but developers actually can now can they they can build apps based on this platform and that traveler. So tell us a little bit about those plans, because that's a that's an interesting answer.

SPEAKER_14 48:09

So that's the the biggest part is that we we want to have a full development tool, uh developer toolkit, API access, uh, MCP, because really so much is driven off of MCPs these days. Um so we we want uh anybody to be able to consume and create and publish to a Traveler MD file. So let's say that you are a rail operator across Europe and you want to be able to make sure that all of your customers have uh personalization capacities attached to it. So it remembers that, hey, we are your preferred rail supplier. Um we know that you like these routes, we know that you like this information. Uh that information can be written into the MD files, but then you can consume it from the same user as well. Um so so much of what we've been trying to work around is there's this whole concept of consent architecture. Who provides consent and to whom? And can you um grant or with with uh withdraw your consent any moment in time? So we really try to make sure that that. Uh but yes, there's a lot more coming soon for the developer community. Uh we've been working on the API documentation to let others um publish to and and pull from these TravelerMD files. But that's definitely the go-to-market.

SPEAKER_10 49:17

Fantastic. And given you have so many things in the works, I'm also keen to ask you. I've got two more questions for you, John, while we have this time together. Is what's next for travel AI beyond um traveler.md, given you have so many different projects and initiatives. I know you've been uh adding to your team. You've got some fantastic Shy Gabai who's been on our podcast before. He's joined your team, and Brianna, who I mentioned, is the director of AI. Um, Josh, who's been fantastic to work with. I mean, like you're building an all-star team. So tell us what's next for Travel AI. And clearly being here is you know, you've got this one major launch, but you guys can uh you guys got a lot going on.

SPEAKER_14 49:52

Uh we have been growing successfully through acquisition. Um, but really it's not acquisition that people would look at it from a here's a new vertical or a new market. We've been basically looking at uh can you go out and acquire um a couple things. One being traffic. We love traffic, uh, but the other one we love we we love is brand. Can you go out and acquire brands? Uh I think one thing that's not taken for uh not a lot of people realize is that so much of the AI world is based on um trust, obviously, because the world runs on trust. But uh we we we acquired last year ownerdirect.com. Uh owner direct was a 40-year brand in the short-term rental space. We acquired SmartTours. Um we acquired Kasai. These are existing operational units that um basically we can borrow the brand that they established, and then that basically is very good fodder for the AI uh systems themselves. Um as you know, we drive a lot of traffic, uh we drive a lot of demand on behalf of our partners, and the more we can do from that perspective, it satisfies them but gives us more data. Um we think that our uh that now that we've launched TravelerMD, it's going to be a race for us to get as many travel profiles created as fast as we can. So anything we can do to accelerate that adoption of a of a standard is kind of large part on our roadmap. But at the same time, it goes back to we can't do that without having the government memory side on the other side because you go talk to these large travel companies and they'd love to be able to implement it, but they can't unless they can basically get past the department of no from the legal and compliance team that that says you can't do this, you can't do use these different technologies. So we have to kind of build one side and uh and the other side concurrently to that.

SPEAKER_10 51:36

Yeah, every organization has a department of no. Department of No.

SPEAKER_14 51:39

Often it's finance, but but often uh especially in large European groups, it's it's this legal and compliance for uh EU regulations.

SPEAKER_10 51:46

Well, that's great. Um one thing I actually want to just finish off with is when we look at uh what else brings you here to this event, because have you been to Focus Right Europe before?

SPEAKER_14 51:55

First time focus right uh Chris was here last year. Um he said definitely have to come. It's it's smaller than the US, but there's uh great conversation to be had with senior executives all from all across Europe. So first time for Barcelona. No, not first time in Barcelona, but first time for Focus Right Europe, Barcelona for myself.

SPEAKER_10 52:10

Yeah, it's and that's why I wanted to ask you that. Like your observations. I know we're at day one so far, but and you have the big launch. Were any other reasons that you uh were there any other specific reasons you came to Focus Right Europe this year or as far as the sessions, the networking, other the benefits of being here?

SPEAKER_14 52:23

Well, I I I hate to say it, but I've never been inside Sagrada Familia. So going inside the church was uh obviously a career um or bucket list item for me. So what I saw was Marceline said, yeah, I can probably make sure I can convince my wife to come as well and go there. So but I I shouldn't say that. Um no, uh it's uh travel AI really is a global company. Uh we have people around the world who work for us. We have you're talking about our bench strength of of people, they're all around the world. Um the we're we've just launched a first Arabic brand the other day. We have a Japanese brand, we have a French brand, Spanish brand. Um we are a global company. And if you look at the application of AI to the travel industry, travel is global. Like it's you you go where the people are. Um I spoke with a famous entrepreneur uh one time and and he was talking about going back and forth across the US and saying, why are you going so frequently from to the other side of the Mississippi? And he said, You got to fish where the fish are. It's the same sort of thing. It's there's um the European market is a massive market. Uh we from a volume standpoint of a current business, we we do a lot of work out of Europe. Um, but it's like I've had conversations with people from from from Cape Town, from um from the Middle East, from it's this is a global hub right now, and it's just no better place to be.

SPEAKER_10 53:39

Yeah. Well, I I certainly saw last year uh the the number of Americans that were here in Europe and looking to expand their businesses, and I see a lot of American companies here again this year. I know next year the conference uh is gonna be in London. So uh continuing on.

SPEAKER_14 53:52

I've been to London before. That's that's that's less less exciting to me.

SPEAKER_10 53:55

True enough. Fair fair enough. I love London, but there's something special about Barcelona, the sunshine. Exactly. Yeah, it's been great being here. It was obviously really nice to see your wife again last night. I'm glad you got the Sagrada Familia experience in because that's extraordinary. Um but just to close off for people who want to reach out to you, John, uh directly or to get to know the team. Clearly, I've mentioned the website. But what would be the best ways for people to reach out for you with collaboration opportunities?

SPEAKER_14 54:18

Uh I'm I'm very much a LinkedIn user. Uh I'm frequently on there. Um follow me on LinkedIn, join message me on LinkedIn. I I am quite responsive, even to the lot of the spammers and the bots that are out there right now. Um so LinkedIn's great, but um uh John at travelai.com is the best email to reach me at. Um visit our website, uh, new website's coming soon. Um go to TravelerMD, create your profile. Um yeah. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_10 54:45

Well, congrats to you and the team on the launch of TravelerMD here in Barcelona at the FocusRight Conference. Obviously, perfect timing for that. And congrats on your continued success with the team, with all the products you're introducing. And of course, you know, thanks for our continued collaboration and partnership and you know being a key part of the travel trends story of you have been over the last couple of years. And terrific to have you back at our summit later this year, and hopefully we'll see you in Toronto. Um, but yeah, thanks again for everything and a look and good luck with the rest of the conference.

SPEAKER_14 55:12

Thank you. My pleasure.

Forbes Travel Guide On Human Connection

SPEAKER_10 55:14

Our next guest here on this event spotlight at Focus Right is a very dear friend of mine, someone that all of our travel trends community is very familiar with from our collaboration at Forbes Travel Guide, our friendship over the years, his presentations at our AI conferences, and his involvement in many of our podcasts. It is Stuart Grife, my really good buddy, and for the first time ever, at Focus Right Europe together, which is really cool. And Stuart, of course, is the chief strategy and innovation officer at Forbes Travel Guide. Stuart, welcome back to the show.

SPEAKER_07 55:47

Muchas gracias. Buenos días, el Dan del Travel Trends podcast. It's great to be here. Uh by the way, Dan, I think this is uh now that I think it's about my tenth time on your program, which is wonderful, I appreciate the opportunity.

SPEAKER_10 56:03

I gotta get one of those jackets like uh Saturday Live from Ten Timer Club.

SPEAKER_07 56:06

I I think if you look for um uh from the 1970s, a lot of hotels have carpet remnants. It's amazing how cheap you can get them and put them into suits without an old wallpaper. But I believe now you have to punch my card and I get a free panini, or if I'm in the States, that's a free subway sandwich.

SPEAKER_10 56:21

And that needs to be a new thing, I guess. Yeah. But tell us what are you doing here? What is Stuart doing here from Forbes Travel Guide at Focused Right Barcelona?

SPEAKER_07 56:28

Well, there are so many, many things, including uh serving on a jury in Madrid where I'm headed tomorrow for the Traveling for Happiness Awards, which is that's a good jury to be on.

SPEAKER_10 56:36

I wasn't sure what you were involved in there.

SPEAKER_07 56:38

Which really celebrates a lot of categories from sustainability and social impact to um and not just hotels, it's across uh categories now, airlines, those that are kind of doing good. And it started with the Madrid Hotel Association, which still runs it, but it's really now expanded beyond even the Spanish-speaking diaspora and others. And then I'm always doing 20 different things. So we've got, you know, good friends and clients and meetings here and in town, and beyond that in Paris. I've got a two-plus uh week trip in Europe. And most of all, um, you know, as Satya uh Nadella, Microsoft's uh CEO, uh exhorted to all of us when we were there, be a learn it all, not a know-it-all. And things are changing and moving so quickly in many ways in the technology, even as there's lags for the industry to change. And so to understand what's going on in different countries and Europe and different parts of the travel ecosystem in which we play, um uh AI obviously is front and center. Those are all things that are really important, especially at a time the hotel industry is at this critical turning point, which I want to dig into a little bit of how do you find profitability, um, how technology might be able to help that finally, and brands uh as well as hotel owners seem much more open and flexible given the urgency around kind of the profit motive to be able to sustainably have their real estate investment be profitable.

SPEAKER_10 58:00

Well, one of the things I just want to call out for our listeners, especially for any of you that are just meeting Stuart for the first time, and obviously I call him a dear friend for a reason because we've been very close now for like 10 years and we've worked together in multiple different capacities. And when you meet good people and you know good people, you know, they're you know, in terms of like his not only his business pedigree, but his personal standing and his values, he's very much an ally for women. Um, and that's something that obviously is meant is important to me given being raised by a single mom. And uh Stuart and I have sat down and said, wait a second, we can't record this because there's no female sitting around, no female executives around the table. And so that's something he's genuinely conscientious of. And um, in the in this age where all of a sudden it's become taboo to talk about DEI, it's something that you're still a strong advocate for. Um, and obviously we have many uh friends in common, given uh our collaborations over the years. And so those are a few things I think our listeners should know about Stuart.

SPEAKER_07 58:54

You know, thank you for for opening the door on that. Um, in fact, uh, we just with uh Charlotte Lamp Davies, I just recorded a follow-up for IT Berlin, ITB Berlin speaking about luxury and brought Janet Semenova in. Um generally, and and I'd ask any any male allies out there, or all men, uh, if you're asked to speak on a panel or speak at an event, uh please insist on one requirement, which is there's at least one woman, and ideally also a person of color, which I also request as well if it's going to be, you know, multiple. Um I think you know, the the there's a famous quote that a woman said um at a Harvard grab graduation, which is uh talent is equally distributed, opportunity is not. And I have seen, because you know, one of the things I love doing broadly, not specific to any one group, is just connecting people in the industry and the course of Forbes Travel Guide and all the wonderful things that we're doing and uh the role that I get to play in supporting our team and our clients, is that you have a conversation, and Dan, you tell me something about what you're doing with travel trends, and I'm like, oh geez, you need to talk to so and so. It doesn't take that much time for me to walk you over and do an introduction. We just did it with uh the good doctor from Raku 10. Yeah. And I just connected her with Matthew from Amparity. That little connection, right, creates and unlocks value. And I've seen the difference access and the difference that kind of little thing can make the difference of whether it's a startup or somebody else being successful or not. And also the ability then to um, you know, frankly, uh reflect more broadly when you look at the data on women or different groups um that aren't even close to equally represented in access to capital, and especially when women or others are not in the room and not represented to make sure their voice is heard and to be an advocate for them.

SPEAKER_10 1:00:40

Yeah, no, and I wanted to highlight that because it's not something that we would otherwise have been talking about on this event spotlight, but it is incredibly important. You mentioned Charlotte Lamp Davies, who also um uh is someone that's been on our podcast, but also someone that's very active in a similar space. And she actually even mentors young men. I think so one of the best things that she can do with her time is mentoring young men, not mentoring young women, but how they can be more inclusive in their approach and how you know so it's really fascinating. So two extraordinary individuals there that are doing some great things in this industry.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:09

And like you, uh Charlotte Charlotte Lamp Davies was also playing a leading role in Forge Travel Guide The Summit over the years as well. We we we have this alumni network of these amazing people that have been part of you know our community as well. That to me, you're always a part of that community.

SPEAKER_10 1:01:24

Yeah, well, one thing I want to ask you, and this this connects to your uh I guess kind of the big heart that you have when it comes to our industry and helping people in need. Um that's certainly been the case in the Middle East in the last uh several months. And coming to uh Monaco last year, the Forbes Travel Guide Conference, there were so many extraordinary uh uh GMs from these beautiful properties in the Middle East, many of which in Saudi Arabia, many in Dubai, of course. And it was fascinating. And I was there was so many places I'm still keen to explore.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:56

We had really great relationships with the Qatari, uh tourism and government folks were part of that as well, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:02:03

So given everything that's gone on the last few months, and this is where uh you had the privilege to also attend day one of the conference where the Middle East conference for focus rate was moved here to Barcelona, uh, condensed, but basically to still go ahead with that conference, even though it couldn't be held in the Middle East at the moment. From the moment that the war broke out, you were very active supporting a lot of the hoteliers in that region. And um, and I think that I I strongly um admire that.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:30

My colleague Samira Demess really, you know, led the charge. Of course, all of us first and foremost were concerned for the guests, the colleagues, our team in the region itself, as well as everybody's well-being affected and and and not losing a focus of that being the highest priority. And then secondarily, what are the ways we can help reconnect people, be able to get them where they need to be and make sure that they can then take care directly of their teams and people not get stuck in Monaco? So under Samira's leadership for us, myself, Herman, our CEO, uh uh certainly, and our entire senior team helping support Samira, supporting our clients and their guests.

SPEAKER_10 1:03:09

So tell us what's happened

Middle East Recovery And Market Resilience

SPEAKER_10 1:03:10

in the last few months, obviously, not from uh uh the news and the politics, but in terms of what's been happening in the Middle East market and specifically where we find ourselves now with some of the data that was shared at yesterday's conference. Because I saw you had posted a number of the uh reports on LinkedIn. So, yeah, tell us your take on what's happened in the Middle East and the hospitality.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:28

Yeah, there was some really great uh data shared by some of the presenters around showing, you know, obviously the media effects after uh the events in February and what's come from that. You know, certainly travel in other regions, uh different uh ways of connecting to Asia, you know, folks had to kind of tack around that. Um, a lot of people were still traveling, they were going to other places. Certain countries have more domestic demand, such as Saudi Arabia, um, and others are you know almost completely dependent, uh, for example, on airlift from overseas like uh Qatar. So it's a it's it's hopeful that seems most recently there's at least positive direction that things are starting to move in the direction. I think that the gist for everybody is that you know, it the the most likely scenario right now is about 18 months for kind of fuller recovery to where we were before that time. And um you can see uh on LinkedIn I posted some data, but this is Focus Right With, and these are some of their presenters sharing just kind of detailed insights. Um and please, uh if you'd like, uh follow both of us, follow Dan Christian and TravelTrans, follow Forbes Travel Guide, follow me. I often post uh share data um with the industry um that helps uh just kind of share wisdom, knowledge, insight uh so that we can all make good decisions. Because um this is an industry where, uh, as Barry Diller said, where there's life, there's travel. And there's no doubt in the Middle East and different countries, travel will return, and and I believe robustly. Um and globally, uh, you know, since time immemorial, we traveled for survival, then we traveled next uh for commerce and eventually to explore the world and now ourselves. And I think younger generations, that's gonna happen. So, you know, what what I really love is uh seeing events like this where there is so much opportunity now. I think AI in a way um challenges geographically that we really do adapt and adjust very quickly, um, even as um I think there are a lot of legacy constraints um that we need to tack around in terms of technology and systems. The technology is there, it takes time, it takes capital, and I think this change may accelerate the adoption of that for simple reasons out of necessity, right? The COVID pulled forward digital adoption in a way that might have otherwise taken 10 years or longer, if that, you know, without a crisis.

SPEAKER_10 1:05:48

Yeah, so true. And obviously, there's that uh all kidding aside, when you were talking about uh the reasons that you came to the conference, clearly there was benefit yesterday of being a part of the Middle East reports in those sessions. You know, we've now just are coming to the end of the very first uh full day of sessions. I know you've been something attending some of the roundtables and panels. And uh when uh Stuart mentioned about sharing on LinkedIn, he's a prolific poster on LinkedIn. He's one of the best people to follow for the simple reason that he is very active in the community at events and often sharing, and also showcasing all the people that come together. You're always tagging people and and it's uh and it's celebrating and elevating.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:24

There are so many great people that have perspectives and stuff. It doesn't mean that they're the only person that has a view. I mean, each of us uh you know brings something to the conversation in perspective, and and there's you know, people that may not have the audience, younger people that are you know specialized in certain areas or doing amazing things to help give visibility, to help inform, to help round out understandings, because life isn't black and white or the lights on or off, there's dimmer switches, there's complexity, there's nuance, there's conflicting views and contradictory. The describing an elephant depending on what part, whether you're touching the tail, the trunk, the body, the legs, sounds very different, and yet they're all parts of what an elephant is, just like our industry. Um, and depending where you are geographically, depending upon what sub segment of the industry, what function, where you are, and which company and what you see is very different, including in different countries in Europe. It's not a monolith, right? We say it's you know, focus right Europe, but uh even as an American, uh, you know, I know Europe is not a monolith, and you know, which country and what are we talking about in the Middle East? Same thing. They're different countries, vital differences to understand geographically, uh in terms of uh religious tourism, for example, uh in Saudi. And that that's a very unique kind of demand market that's very dynamic and different than anywhere else in the world.

SPEAKER_10 1:07:40

Yeah, I love that celebrate and elevate. And that's one of the things that you know you do so well because it's not about look at me, I'm at this conference. It is elevating the people that are there and uh helping to uh to lift their voices and and give them an audience. So along the same lines, Stuart, from today's events at the conference, what would you celebrate and elevate from today's Focus Right conference?

SPEAKER_07 1:08:02

I think you know it gets to what is the essence of our industry, which is human connection. Look around, we're at this technology convention. I don't see any avatars uh in the metaverse here. I don't see uh AI or robots talking to one another. Um, I don't know if you can pick up momentarily the background noise of this or maybe catch a soundbite of it later. The amount of vital conversations, of human connection, of not being transactional, of you know, of conversations. Of course, there has to be mutual value for two companies or organizations to say, hey, how do we work commercially? But this is also about you know getting to know each other, getting to learn, getting to exchange perspective and having fun. I often say we're not curing cancer. This isn't life and death in the travel industry. And and most often, you know, we're supporting people in moments of joy and creating memory, and how do we do that better? And so what always um brings me back, even in the age of AI, is it's all in support of this human experience of us, you know, expanding each other. Uh one of my friends, Pico Ayer, who's a well-known writer who writes about travel, uh, said something to the factor wrote to the effect of, you know, we travel first to lose ourselves, we travel next to find ourselves. And, you know, the the this extent to which it it's expanding who we are in a way that is so energizing is just remarkable to me. And I see that all over the world, and I see it in what we do every day, because ultimately we're in a business of caring. Right? Maybe there are some players that look at it like human logistics and transport, um, and that that can be a challenge if, you know, or people that are looking just at the numbers and squeeze, squeeze, squeeze and forget that what is actually gonna make you stand out, ironically, in the age of AI, right, McKinsey data, 20% or less of how you stand out of the LMs are things you control, your website, your marketing, et cetera. 80% plus is your reputation. It's what other people think of you or talking about you, rate you, reputable sources, et cetera. And so if you're gonna stand out in a smaller world of a subset of recommendations, if you're not the low-cost carrier, you better be differentiated and you better be giving a good experience. I don't think, Dan, when you travel, you're gonna ask your digital assistant, hey, am I price point near this location? Give me like five mediocre choices that are blah hotels. You know, you're gonna say the ones that really care have like a great experience, right?

SPEAKER_10 1:10:23

Yeah, exactly. I never look at anything that's not wonderful or above when I'm uh as a booking.com rating. Uh but let's talk about Forbes travel guide and what you're working on and and where uh that not only industry, but also your role is is headed because you're across a lot of things, and obviously it's great having you here at Focus, right? Obviously, I always enjoy your company and your perspective, and and so I could definitely talk more about that at length. But I also want to make sure our listeners understand the work that you do outside of being at a conference like this, because you are you know you're not only uh another jury, you're giving a keynote at uh Bugatti. You've got so many amazing things going on, Stuart, and I'm so happy and pleased for you. So tell everyone what what else you're up to, what's happening with Forbes Travel Guide.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:05

Yeah, I I think I would start at the core, which is every day my colleagues and I, you know, around the world wake up and are excited to support all of the folks, all the colleagues in the industry that are providing service and hospitality to their guests in every part of the value chain. And that includes obviously hotels, restaurants, spa, um, cruise lines that many people know us for, but also high-end residential, high-end automotive, and not just in luxury, we also provide that expertise in other ways. And so our mission is how do we make that more valuable, how do we make that more impactful? So in recent years, under Richard Liebowitz and Herman, our CEO, we brought in travel advisors to add more value to the hotels and the cruise lines and help educate them, help elevate service. And uh, you know, I had a friend, uh Rick Garlic, who's ex-merits that worked for me at JD Power, and he told this wonderful story about he had this amazing dry cleaner, and this guy was so warm, so hospital. He'd come in, bear hug, hey Rick, how are you doing? How are

Hotel Profitability And The Talent Crunch

SPEAKER_07 1:12:08

the kids? He remembered things about how'd your son's baseball game the other day, or your daughter, you know, how was her field hockey game? Um and Rick would say there was just one problem. And I was like, What's that, Rick? It's like he's a terrible dry cleaner. So hospitality, absolutely caring and love, but you need this service. And then every brand, even what we do for travel guide, is different. And and we don't uh put on even in our 900-plus standards in just hotels, restaurants, spa, it's not you must act this way. It's broad-based to be applicable. Warm welcome looks very different in Kyoto, Japan, than it does in Berlin, than it does in Austin, Texas, and it and it ought to. And so, you know, for us, I think that's part of our mission. And um we've rolled out more e-learning and starting to have certification, uh, initially luxury hospitality professionals, so that they can take the hard work that they've already earned and demonstrate that and lever that in a way that has recognition that can help support them when they're looking for opportunities to grow in their career. The other thing I'll say, and I think this is really important to understand, um, it's true where our core is in luxury, and it's true broadly. If you think about the growth in luxury, not just hotels, I mean the number of yachts, private residences, you know, we're kind of in this middle-sized bubble from this smaller one from five, ten years ago in the growth of luxury. And looking ahead, the forecasts of luxury hotels and uh new yachts uh being launched and private residences and other services, experiences, et cetera, is expected to roughly double in the next five to seven years. Okay, five years is the estimate, even if it's seven, so be it. Where are the people coming from? The younger generation, it's already a challenge with talent to be able to um get people to want to work in the service industry. Now you're you you can't create our CEOs, Herman Elger, a world-class five-star hotel year that Baccarat, some montage, uh when Ritz Carlton was growing, led many hotels, openings around the world during its seminal growth phase. You can't you can't clone and create a Herman in five years or ten years. And it's not just the Hermans as the GM, it's the heads of FB, it's the head of housekeeping and by the in rooms, and by the way, it's every level in between. So as we're doubling, the challenge I think over the next five years is how do we maintain levels of hospitality and service? How do we do it not just at the highest levels, but at every level? And what are the tools and ways we can help support them, which is why I'm so bullish about um our opportunity to help support that growth and providing learning in digital formats that people can access. And you know, a lot of people aren't, you know, at a laptop the way you or I might be, right? They're frontline folks. And then I see exciting startups like Abra Hospitality that's really creating that missing link, uh, especially at luxury hotels where there's systems and maybe in the front office, there's notes in the boards, and people have stand-up. There's not a good way today to really put that at the fingertips and deliver that personalization. So they're kind of like last mile delivery of the luxury guest experience, and they've been gathering a lot of interesting uh traction. But there's also innovations like this company Tech Chexology, that's part of our Astria Live luxury uh suppliers to the industry, but as digital solutions for like valet and bag check, that's better for guests and also coat check, um, but also better for the hotel colleagues and trying to figure out a big hotel, you know, where do we put the bags? So I think like there's innovation everywhere. And as uh Chris Hemeter of Theraventure said, and I'm paraphrasing, you know, earlier this morning, I think the the pressure of profit and and challenge now has CEOs, you know, turning to their CIOs saying, like, hey, we need to address this. Um, that that this finally this period, because the need for growth and profitable growth, um, especially for real estate assets and hotels, has gotten such a squeeze to the point that it's a real challenge. The brands are doing well. And you could argue there was a Wall Street Journal article this morning, and then I'll pause after this point, that talked about one of the big multi-global brand uh chains um that uh some of their um their real estate owners are balking at their loyalty program because the brand is making a ton of money and they're not. So are we at this Walmart mo moment where you know if the the the products at Walmart, if those companies can't make profit and get so squeezed and Walmart takes all the profit out, there's not a business. And so the brands are doing well, but the real estate investors, not so much. And you can look at the public ones and talk about it. And that reinvention, the PL, whether it's Alex Cabanias at his stown, who's Pyramid Hospitality's chairman looking at innovation. I think we're all leaning into tech and innovation and new ways to free up, and AI included, uh, free up administrative uh to be able to focus more on the hospitality and and and unlock some of the cost and tractable things that are now doing it. But I do do think we may have this pushback against the brands, which uh I, you know, we're Switzerland. I'm not trying to play one or the other. It's recognition that it's come to the point where everybody needs to do well because even the big brands, if they don't have people that want to invest in hotels because it's not profitable enough, their brands aren't growing. So it's got to be the symbiotic balance. And right now, I think whether um in in hotels in particular, whether brand management company where sometimes management companies with traditional contracts were making money while the owners were losing it, all of this needs kind of this disruptive evolution, maybe, as opposed to disparaging it at work. But when it doesn't work, what do we do next?

SPEAKER_10 1:17:37

Yeah, yeah. And this is where Stuart, you have so much to share, and I think our listeners obviously heard that there. There's and then we get this conversation, it could go in a number of different directions, which is why you're a 10-timer on the podcast. And you're uh uh one other thing I wanted to highlight to our listeners is that Stuart uh is gonna be back for our summit later this year. Uh we've been a key part of it the last two years. We've done the AI summit for the last two years, and this year we're opening it up to beyond AI and the human connection, which I know Stuart is so well positioned to speak to as well, as you'd get a sense from our conversation now, around you know where technology has a role and where humans are still important to the whole travel process. And um so I want to make sure, Stuart, that people can like me connect with you, follow you, um, and uh especially given all the cool stuff that you've got going on. So, what would be the best ways for our listeners to do that?

SPEAKER_07 1:18:25

Yeah, LinkedIn, um just just connect with me because I do post a lot. Uh, you know, we don't have to be talking every day, every week. Um I share things um if I you know read a report or uh news articles, I read it anyway. And my my approach is if I think this is interesting, I think this might be interesting to other folks out there. Let me share what I think some of the key insights are, you know, put it out there. So um LinkedIn's the best way. Um I do eventually get to my LinkedIn messages. I do get quite a bit of spam um like many of us, so sometimes it takes me longer that way. And if you have a genuine need or genuine opportunity um that that's mutual, and even if it's not Forbes travel guide, if I can help redirect or you know, within my bandwidth create a connection, I try to do, I'm not perfect. Nobody bats you know, a thousand or a hundred. Um and sometimes uh I might need a little reminder. Uh you know, right now I'm traveling on the road a little over two weeks, and uh I was uh in New York and the East Coast uh for a little over a week with time for family in between, which is always the foundation. So with my wife's support and permission, and she's a great partner and also in the travel industry, by the way. She's a luxury leisure advisor, but I'll keep her privacy and anonymity. Um uh but yeah, I think that um that's that's the best way. And then uh please do also follow Dan, Travel Trends Productists, make sure, because that virtual AI Travel Trends annual event has really become, I think in the last two to three years, you know, one of the best ways to get the breadth and depth across the span of the industry. And because it's virtual, it enables us to do things. Yes, we miss out a little bit on everybody being in one room, but from a cost-time perspective and also the ability then to get speakers that otherwise schedules wouldn't line up or geographies wouldn't line up. It really is, I think, probably the the both the most comprehensive across the industry. And I also think at a time of year that it that it comes in that you get able to go in depth in different areas as well with really top speakers, um, given how much things are changing. Maybe five years from now, it's like, okay, things are a little bit more established or de rigueur. I think it'll still be vital. Um, but right now, um, even just coming here and seeing that many of the challenges and questions that uh companies and players in different markets in Europe and the Middle East have are the same ones we're facing in North America or South America or Asia Pacific. Um, it really does seem that we're all kind of coming around and coalescing, you know, in similar places and having many of the same questions. I love there's there's an old saying that um, you know, uh answers change, but questions endure. And uh I think that's that's certainly the case here.

SPEAKER_10 1:21:03

Yeah, that's great. And that's a perfect way to finish up our our chat for today. But um, and I just wanted to underscore what uh Stuart had kindly mentioned, which was that you know we found that our audience speakers and sponsors overwhelmingly wanted us to keep our event virtual so that people can attend from anywhere and get the most benefit. So it seems to fit with our ethos of you know a global podcast with listeners around the world, is that we keep it available to everyone. We don't fix it to a location. But one of the things we are doing, especially going into 2027, is being is doing more in-person events as well, but small smaller, 50, 100 people, live podcast recordings, giving people the opportunity to network and get to meet other listeners and uh realize other business opportunities.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:44

This is great. I mean, at Focus Right, when when you did this at our event and others, I think it gives uh an incredible dimension and depth and the ability to get perspective, especially even if you're here, you may not get as well as after, and then you get uh you do such a great job bringing in big brands, small brands, innovators, like such a um not eclectic, such a curated mix that provides, I think, in each one value, and then collectively, all the different folks you interview gives you a real kind of palpable sense of where we are in a way that um you know it it it is uh otherwise you'd have to, you know, condense down all sorts of stuff. So I I I love the mix in the way you do that with travel trends. And I think you have a unique, well, you've always had a unique voice. Um, and uh for all the joking around as friends that we do in the industry, um I you know I love what you're doing. It's uh doing tremendous service to the industry and has a unique voice out there that complements and amplifies everything else that's uh in the industry as well.

SPEAKER_10 1:22:43

So thank you, Stuart. It's very kind of you to say, and obviously it means the world to me uh uh to hear you say that, and given uh uh how long we've known each other and the opportunities you've created for us, and um you know, I want to start or I want to finish off by for saying thank you. Thank you for everything you do for the industry, thank you for everything you've done for uh for travel trends, and obviously I'm so keen to continue to see how you how you continue to elevate the uh the industry. And I look forward to having you back at our event and keeping in touch. But safe travels, best to you and the family, and thanks for joining us on this episode.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:16

Thanks for the opportunity, Dan, best to everyone out there.

Civitatis Scales Curated Experiences

SPEAKER_10 1:23:20

Our next guest is the CEO of Civitatus, Andreas Spitzer. And uh Civitatus has been an amazing partner of Travel Trends for the last uh two years, season six and season seven. So many of our listeners are very familiar with Civitatus, and obviously we love the partnership that we have with you and the team, and it's wonderful to be here in Spain. You're based in Madrid, we're here in Barcelona for uh Focus Right, and I finally have the chance to interview the CEO, Andres Spitzer. Andreas, welcome to Travel Trends. Thanks so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_13 1:23:51

Thank you. Very happy, very excited to be here with you to share a chat. Um excited to be in Focus Right. This is my first Focus Right. So I I guess this is the best way to start. Yeah, that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_10 1:24:01

I don't know. I've gotten to meet Enrique, uh, who many of our listeners know as well. And um the so the opportunity to sit down with you now as a CEO. Tell us a little bit about your background, first of all, because you've taken over the CEO role just in the last year and a half.

SPEAKER_13 1:24:15

Yeah, so I actually formerly started my CEO role in January, right? I enjoyed Civitatis um a year and a half ago, as I say, I was driving product and tech. And my background is pretty much entrepreneurial as well. I've been most of my life an entrepreneur. Uh so that a couple of years ago I sold a company to uh uh corporate. It was on a different industry, it was in mobility. And then I've been uh a couple of years as well working in Amazon, right? And I was another marketplace. Yeah, we're managing Amazon business, and yeah, I thought it was going to be very fun moving from selling uh printers and paper to selling experiences, right? And uh this is the the best part of travel show, so really enjoying it.

SPEAKER_10 1:24:54

Yeah, it's fantastic. No, and that's where you have an impressive background. The previous CEO, Alberto. I was joking with Andreas that he recently went to space. Tell everyone a little bit about that because at first when I was speaking to Enrique, I was like, wait, is Andreas going to space? He's like, No, no, no, it's uh Alberto, um, the former CEO and the uh the uh founder. Tell everyone about his recent experience.

SPEAKER_13 1:25:14

Yeah, no, I think Alberto, you know, is he's uh he's a big traveler, so he was probably the last place on on earth that he had not been yet, so he needed to go to space, and that's probably the main reason they hired me, right? They they said they wanted to have a backup plan in case there was something going off on the on the on the space. Uh and uh then yeah, I I took over and he was safe to go to space. And uh it was it was fun, but definitely it was very impressive, right? It was very exciting. It was it's fun because we were in feature actually when he won go he was um going up, and we put a TV on the stand on our stand on feature, and it was uh uh broadcaster broadcasted live, right? So it was a lot of people uh watching the event, and I it was super super exciting. Uh I didn't I didn't expect that it was going to be so much you know uh nervous, but it was uh um it was really encouraging.

SPEAKER_10 1:26:02

Yeah, well I was joking around with Enrique Um that there's no way they would allow the existing uh CEO to go to space, it's like investors, board members, that's just too high risk. But I'm I'm glad he had the opportunity, and I was joking with Andreas that your time will come. Like that's you know, your time, but you've got um you know, you've taken over a very successful company, there's huge opportunity to expand. One of the things that's always excited me about the Civitanis business model is the Spanish-speaking market, you know, a billion Spanish speakers. There's so much focus in our industry around English language, English language source markets, US, Canada, Australia, UK, people going to Europe. But you're very focused on the Spanish market and Spanish outbound. And we're seeing you know uh more Mexican travelers or even Latin America and South America, the number of people that are traveling regionally just within South America. So all the trends are certainly pointing in the direction that there's a massive increase in Spanish travelers outbound from Spain, inbound to Spain. And so you guys have had you know been on a phenomenal growth trajectory. For any of our listeners that are not familiar with Civitadas, tell us a little bit more about the company.

SPEAKER_13 1:27:06

So, yeah, uh, as you're saying, we've been uh very focused on allowing travelers to travel in their own language without barriers, and it's been the foundational DNA from us. And we are today the leading uh uh marketplace in mainly on on South of Europe and Latin America. And we do that because uh we sa we we have a very clear focus, as you're saying, right? We focus mainly on the Spanish and Portuguese markets, and but we have a lot of uh underserved people, right? So we have a lot of travelers that as you were saying, um um other OTAs are focusing on English first uh uh trips. And we focus on making sure that the Spanish and Portuguese travelers can discover, enjoy, uh, and travel without any barriers. And and doing that is is quite a is quite a a journey as well, right? Because from from the beginning on how we craft the offer connecting, understanding really. The Spanish speaking uh traveler, we understand Mexicans, we understand Argentinians, we understand Brazilians very well. And then we craft our offerings in the different destinations to make sure that there's not only a language connection, it's more of a cultural connection, right? And that's why it was very natural for us to jump to Latin America. We we were having Latin American people uh coming to Spain, buying from us and asking for our products, even we're having uh uh B2B uh travel agencies on on Latin America asking for our Flippitis product, right? So it was a very natural way to grow there.

SPEAKER_10 1:28:33

Yeah, and obviously it's really cool that this is your first time at a Focus Right conference. I'm you know I've been a huge fan of Focus Right for many years. I know a lot of your team members have been to Focus Right conferences. Um but tell us what brings you here to this uh obviously great proximity. You guys can uh yourself and Enrique and the team could take a high-speed train uh from Madrid to get here to Barcelona in three hours. Um but obviously there's tons of uh networking opportunities and uh tell us a little bit more what brings you to Focus Right Europe.

SPEAKER_13 1:29:00

Yeah, so first of all, as you said, this is my first time, so you I couldn't miss it, and and the proximity makes it super convenient. So

Data Gaps In Latin America Experiences

SPEAKER_13 1:29:06

it was it was a great opportunity for for me to to be uh here for the first time. Uh this year is also special, right? Because we've we've been uh working with Focus Right and Arrival to deliver um the first report that is being done jointly between uh both uh companies, which is amazing, you know, and until now there was always arrival more focusing on the operators and uh focus right on the on the bigger uh travel industry trends, and now being able to sponsor and to drive uh this new report where it's focusing on Europe and Latin America, to understand the trends, to understand how it's affecting the especially the the chosen activities uh uh vertical and industry is very excited. Yeah. Very exciting. And we're going to be sharing a conversation later on stage about the insights of the report, which are interesting, of course. Uh but but uh being able to make sure that this joint venture is happening between arrival and and focus right is super exciting.

SPEAKER_10 1:29:59

For sure. Yeah, and it's interesting you mentioned that because uh many of our listeners know that the Travel Trends podcast, we work with Focus Right and work with Arrival. And some of the team members from Arrival, like Douglas Quinby, uh Bruce Rosard used to work with the North Star team and work at Focus Right. So there is it's like an extended family, but Arrival focuses exclusively on the in-destination experiences, and focus right includes that as well. But clearly there uh aviation, uh hotels, it's uh it's all-encompassing for focus right of the entire travel industry. I'd love to hear more about this report because this is one of the reasons that I attend conferences like this, and I've always loved Focus Right for the research that they do, because at first at the heart of it, when you speak to Pete, uh, and he's always very quick to remind me that at the heart of Focus Right, they're a research company. So you come together for the research to a conference to be able to see all this amazing reporting that they've done. And that's something I always loved about Douglas Quimby. I always sit uh front row for Douglas Quimby, who worked at Focus Right for many years and did these reports, and then now does them for Arrival. So it's cool that you are across both arrival and focus right. Um, but tell everyone about the more details about this report and what some of the exciting insights you're gonna share today.

SPEAKER_13 1:31:12

So, well, first, yeah, I agree. And and I I love uh Douglas, I think he was the first uh person I met on the industry when I was uh starting, and it was super insightful. I I learned a lot uh when I went to arrival first time, I was first row as well. And I thought he was the best panel from the conference uh by far. So very uh lots of respect for Douglas. I've done a couple of uh talks with him uh super super enjoyed them.

SPEAKER_11 1:31:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 1:31:37

So the the the report is at the end we we're always craving for data, right? And we're craving for data which can be trusted. Yeah, I think in the age of AI where we have a lot of uh noise and things that you can't you don't know what is true, and it's difficult to understand uh what's right from wrong. Um, having reports that you know that you can trust and you know that it's been uh crafted in a way that you can use and you know you can rely on is uh is very useful, especially again today where we have all of these macro uh uh headwinds and things that are happening, and the industry is being shaken by different angles. Things that are transformational, things like AI, right? And then you have things that are happening uh around the world which are uh pushing our uh businesses. Um data is is definitely uh uh uh a blessing and something we need to we need to uh uh use. And there was some gaps in the data, especially for experiences. That was why we were pushing to have data for, especially for Latin America. Europe, we we had uh some more uh data and is is it's been more it's been more frequently produced. For Latin America, it's been I think it's the first time for both, right? That they do something specific. So that's why we're very keen to to sponsor and to make sure that we were going to be able to push these these two um uh amazing companies to produce uh joint report so we could we could have data that we can trust to learn what are the key insights uh on on those on those markets. And there's definitely some learnings, right? There's these things that we we see on the report which are interesting, uh seeing how the frequency of of travel is is changing, is is reducing less uh less trips. Uh the share of wallet, the money that people have to spend uh on those trips is uh is uh also a little bit less. Uh, but the will to uh spend it especially on experiences is increasing, right? And that's that's good news. Uh the fact that we have people that are now making the experience the the uh center of the trip and uh they manage logistics, right? They there's many destinations that you want to make sure that when you go to Rome, you're going to be able to see the Colosseum, right? That you're going to be really able to experience the city. You go to Rome because you want to do things, or you go to Peru and you need to go to Machu Picchu, right? There's places that you will never uh go or you don't go without thinking of doing something, to having that experience which is going to be with you. I think that trend which has been growing, uh, it's been forever uh there, but now is is more and more digitized. Um, that's something that is still uh increasing. And um and the reports are giving us the data and how this is increasing, right? And that's very insightful.

SPEAKER_10 1:34:10

And obviously, we clearly both have a huge respect uh for Douglas Quinby and um as he refers to it, the best part of travel. Yeah, and I couldn't agree more, and that's what Civitatus offers is access to the best part of travel, the actual experiences in the destination. One other thing that uh you made me think of as you were sharing that too, Andreas, is the fact that what's really unique about Civitatus' model is it's truly a curated marketplace. And so it's not about having a thousand options in Rome, it's about having the three that really matter. And I think that's cutting through the clutter in this um in this era of travel is more important than ever. People just want, just recommend to me like the right trip. I look forward to reading that report. I'm uh obviously I'll look forward to attending later today. For people who are gonna be listening to this afterwards, is there gonna be a way for them to access that report? Obviously, if they're part of Focus Right, I'm sure they'll have access to it, but will Civitatus be sharing it as well?

SPEAKER_13 1:35:01

No, I I think the report is going to be shared uh um with uh Focus Right and Arrival on the usual uh ways, right? And I think they will be distributing it. We are not going to distribute it, we've just been sponsoring and and normally they they distribute. I don't know exactly what are the distribution channels inside uh both arrival and focus right, but yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:35:21

Cool. Well we'll we'll make sure that our listeners can find it and uh um because I'm sure a lot of people will be intrigued after this because these are the things that our listeners gravitate to because

AI Shifts Discovery And Choice

SPEAKER_10 1:35:30

they want that knowledge and advice. So given that you are you know presenting this report today, attending Focus Right for the first time, and we're sitting here having this conversation kind of midway through 2026, tell us a little bit about what's ahead for Civitadas for the rest of this year or some of the major plans you're developing for 2027.

SPEAKER_13 1:35:49

So many thanks. Uh as as you know, we are we're growing a lot, we're growing a lot, especially in Latin America. So, what we want to do is is make sure that we continue to serve well those um customers, to make sure that we continue to develop our network. And as we were saying, is having a curative uh marketplace is um definitely more difficult than having an open marketplace. But we really believe that is the only way to maintain quality, right? To maintain, to make sure that both we reduce this, what we call this paradox of choice. So when you go to Coliseum, as you were saying, you can be sure that you're choosing the right experience because it is the is the one that we are offering. It's going to be uh vetted, is going to be uh uh having a resonance with the with the buyer is going to be well operated. So we take care of all of those things and we don't leave that. Um I would say uh at the buyer's uh uh luck, right? Because when you're buying uh uh between uh 400 experiences in Coliseum, you need to be lucky that you're picking the right thing, right? When you're doing it with us at the end, you know it's going to be uh uh well operated because it is selected. But having that level of of uh curation is is pretty hard, right? Having a big catalog is easy, uh having it small is is hard. And now one of the biggest um uh we're facing, I think industry is facing two main changes, right? One is on AI, on how customers are discovering, right? The the uh the way of people searching to making questions, and now the next step is to uh asking for AI to do things. It's is a series of uh evolutions that is happening very fast, and it's really transforming this top of the funnel, how people get inspired and discovered. So making sure that we are um capitalizing our trust to be discoverable is uh is a good thing. And the second thing is um that same transformation is transforming uh TV Tatix, right? And making sure that we are uh becoming uh the company that is going to be successful for the next uh 20 years is is something which requires as well a lot of work. And we are having a lot of fun doing it. It's uh exciting time to be uh doing business, to be doing things. I always say it's it's never been a better time to uh to build anything to make sure that you're um transforming. I'm a builder myself, I'm an I'm an engineer, so I'm I'm always uh trying to fix problems. So I'm I'm really loving it. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_10 1:38:15

Well, the one thing I know you've just built is a new app that people can download. So you've dramatically improved the mobile experience for your guests. And as you say, about the enthusiasm that the Civitatus team brings to the industry, it's always awesome seeing you guys in all of your pink Civitatus shirts, um, especially right now with the World Cup on, because everyone at the World Cup with all the players are wearing pink shoes. I'm sure everyone's saying that the pink shoes are everywhere. And I was reading a fascinating article from one of the Nike executives that was involved in this, and I guess um one of the things that they realized is that a lot of the players like to wear bold colors because it actually psychologically um makes them perform better. And so we didn't know that. Yeah, and that so that was fast. So the there's a connection for you guys and the team, and the um and then the other thing that they highlighted is that the color that actually provides the most contrast against the green on the field is pink. Yeah. And so uh this year's World Cup, not only was all the Nike players wearing pink, but all the other players are wearing pink. So going into next season, people are all gonna choose another color because everyone chose everyone accidentally chose pink at this World Cup. But you guys have made it part of your brand identity. And it was really cool at the arrival conference. I uh was on stage and I looked out and there was an entire row of pink shirts of Civitatus team members because I think you guys had about 10 people at that conference.

SPEAKER_11 1:39:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:39:26

Uh that's really cool to see, and it's just you know, it's always nice to uh to meet your team because they're always kind of fun and outgoing. They certainly live the brand. Um, and it's wonderful to finally have the chance to meet you and have a chance to interview the CEO and to see that the spirit and you know, clearly the culture that you guys have at the company. So um credit to you and the team for the company you've built. Um as far as your plans for the rest of the year, tell everyone what other conferences the Civic Hatus is going to be at, and hopefully we'll see you again in uh uh Florida in November for Focus Rate USA.

SPEAKER_13 1:39:58

Yeah, uh Florida, definitely. And first of all, yes, uh let me uh do a uh comment on the on the World Cup because definitely for sure this is something we're discussing every day at the FCS, right? Yeah. And I was joking with the team a couple of days ago because I'm sure this year we're winning. Yeah, we even made an AI generated picture with uh all of us because at the end it's okay, we are chairing Spain, we're cheering Brazil, Argentina, uh all of the big uh uh countries. So I'm I'm I'm pretty sure we have a big chance of any of this, any of this winning. So super, super happy. And um, and at the end it was uh Civitati's uh winning, right? So so we're making our internal bets are around this. And it's it's fun to see. So regarding the the events, yes, uh uh Florida uh for sure will will go. Uh so we are thinking uh to uh be on arrival in Spokane uh in a couple of months. Uh the rest of the events we mainly go to to B2B, travel agencies uh events, uh much of our team are going to those. Um we have a uh very ambitious calendar. I don't know all of all of the all of the events. I think the next one coming is from the wrong is fit in in Argentina. Uh but yeah, on on the global industry, arrival, spokane, and and Florida for focus right will be there.

SPEAKER_10 1:41:13

Yeah, fantastic. Well, I look forward to seeing you and the team again, only in Florida, but also in uh in Spokane for the arrival conference in the USA and um on our continued collaborations. I want to make sure all of our listeners can make sure that they can reach out to you or connect with the team. I know you're active on uh LinkedIn, but what would be the best ways for our listeners uh to reach out to you or the team for other opportunities to collaborate together?

SPEAKER_13 1:41:35

So, yeah, our website is always a first great choice. We have all of the details to to working with us, to to partner with us. I'm super happy to to receive those requests and we try to make sure we cater to all of them and LinkedIn, if not, right? Or we are as you're saying, we're easy to spot, right? We're always wearing a pink shirt. So whenever you see a pink shirt, it's going to be someone from Tibitatis and is going to be very happy to attend to any of you.

SPEAKER_10 1:42:00

And the only exception that has Alberto, because he's wearing his blue origin blue uh uh astronaut outfit instead. Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 1:42:08

He did, but it's not anymore. I think he will be happy with a pink shirt. He's back to pink. He's back to pink. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. I think uh it's a cool, it's a cool blue picture, right? That you want to have as an astronaut. Totally. That's definitely a cool, a cool picture to have.

SPEAKER_10 1:42:20

Yeah. Well, I can't wait until it's your turn. And um, but yeah, Andreas, real pleasure to meet you. Thanks again for our partnership, and obviously uh great to see you and the team and wish you every success in the year ahead and look forward to catching up again soon.

SPEAKER_13 1:42:33

Thank you. It was a pleasure.

Propellic On GEO And AI Search

SPEAKER_10 1:42:36

Our next guest is not only a great friend of mine, but also a huge supporter of our Travel Trends podcast, right from season three. It is Brennan Bliss, the CEO and founder of Propelic. And Brennan, to our audience, is very well known from doing amazing keynotes at our AI Summit the last couple of years. He'll be back again this year. He's become a very well recognized figure in the industry, uh, and it's all very well deserved. He's built up an amazing team and an incredible client list, and it's always a pleasure to catch up with him at these conferences. And Brennan, I'm glad we have the chance to sit down and have you join us again on the Travel Trends Podcast. Welcome back.

SPEAKER_21 1:43:12

Thank you so much. Thrilled to be here.

SPEAKER_10 1:43:14

Yeah, you have just gone from strength to strength. It's amazing. One of the things that Brennan always does at these events is organizing a fantastic dinner, which he did on the first night. And but tell everyone, for anyone that is not familiar, that is just listening to this for the very first time and doesn't know anything about Propellic and Brendan Bliss, which is less and less. Tell everyone about Propellic and what you guys do.

SPEAKER_21 1:43:34

So we work with companies that like to make money broadly. I feel like that's a descriptive uh uh adjective for most of them. Um, but particularly through direct-to-consumer marketing, uh, would be our general specialty, and we do that through a couple of paths. So um but there's a very strategic arm in terms of how we position and how we invest in marketing. But once we've decided to do that, we also have the execution arms associated with um advertising. So that would be things like Google Ads, which the industry is heavily dependent on, um, meta, TikTok, etc. And then also on the organic side, large language model visibility optimization, which we've been leading the research and um charge on, as well as traditional organic search optimization.

SPEAKER_10 1:44:18

And to give everyone a bit of background, too, not only has Brennan been on the show multiple times, we did a special marketing episode that was truly fantastic, got a lot of pickup, a lot of interest, and we're actually going to be doing a three-part series on marketing in season eight of our podcast, uh, as part of our collaboration with Propelic, because again, that standalone episode was so popular. We wanted to bring and the expertise that Brennan and the team have, starting with SEO, then getting into paid media, and then GEO, which I want to talk to you about as well, since that's very top of mind for everyone here at the conference, and the fact you've moved into content and really have become a full service marketing agency and a top-tier firm working with some of the largest travel companies in the world. So um I highly encourage all of our listeners to go check out that episode, and then also check out your keynotes that have been on our YouTube channel as well. Um, tell everyone a little bit about the team because obviously you've brought on John Matson now, you've got um you know Shannon doing your sales, you've got uh uh Sole or Soledad that does all the marketing, you know, um, and one of your SEO team members are here. Like you've built a really impressive team. So tell everyone about that first, because I think that is core to your success. You are an incredibly smart individual, savvy entrepreneur, and a great marketer, and but you've built, most importantly, a fantastic team around you. Tell everyone a bit more about them.

SPEAKER_21 1:45:38

Well, I appreciate that. I think um that's gotta be the hardest part of what I do, what any entrepreneur does. I think that um specifically when you're in professional services and you're selling essentially expertise, um, you're not selling a product, you're not selling a online booking, um, there is a lot of room for inconsistency and a lot of room for um falling short of expectations. And I have a mentor that likes to say if you look at uh if you put on a line uh expectations in one place and reality in the other, the gap between is disappointment. So my job is essentially we need to find, recruit, and build a team and develop a team uh that can deliver at the same level that I would expect if I were doing it myself, um, which is a fairly, fairly high standard. Um, and I that is both the hardest thing but also the most rewarding thing because when we do that right, the downstream effects on performance for our clients, on morale for the team, even and retention. I mean, we've not had I think we've had like probably two people leave leave the company in the past five years um voluntarily and just say like I found a new job. Um so I'm I'm really proud of the culture that we've built and the people that we have on our team. But yeah, we've added some recent um some recent senior leadership as well, as you're calling out. Um, of course, there's people who have been here uh for a few years, have been incredibly valuable and important to the team, Soleil and Shannon, as you mentioned, and then you met Emily, who's our director of SEO, and then yes, John, who comes from um about a decade in the travel industry, um, has come in to help us with uh uh on the senior leadership team with growth.

SPEAKER_10 1:47:11

Yeah, it's fantastic. So he's role is uh um he's a CRO and he's across all of the marketing activity and the sales activity and customer service.

SPEAKER_21 1:47:20

So basically it's anything that produces new business for us.

SPEAKER_11 1:47:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_21 1:47:24

So um conference strategy, um, sales, marketing. It's not gonna be the customer service side of things, though, because that would be more so our operations team.

SPEAKER_10 1:47:32

Yeah. And John's great. I mean, I know John before many people in the travel industry will join John Matson. So I'm thrilled for him and for you that you guys have partnered together and he's come into Propelic full-time. It's a fantastic uh addition to the team, and that's where you guys have been going from strength to strength. And it's impressive to see not only in the team, but then also the clients that you are working with as well. And so tell us a little, and I think our audience will find that interesting because you know, as um uh Brennan and I worked together many years ago, like the origin story for us goes back to my time at the Travel Corporation and a brand within the group called Grand European, where we brought in Brennan's team that was focused on SEO and had an outstanding experience. Him and I have kept in touch over the years, and as he built this company, and I've been building up the Travel Trends Podcast, we have had a uh a parallel uh journey, but both on exciting trajectories and also you know strong collaborators and supporters of each other. So it's like uh so tell tell everyone about some of the the major partnerships that you've been able to reach.

SPEAKER_21 1:48:30

Yeah, so I I um have to be sensitive to the ones that we're allowed to talk about and the ones that we're not. Um unfortunately, all the big and exciting most of the big and exciting ones um generally we need PR approval from their teams before we can publicize things. And a lot of those have become our fairly new partnerships that we're really excited about. But um, I would say anything from a uh very well-known mountain travel company to very well known one of the largest hotel groups, uh hotel um property management, I mean hotel uh loyalty brands in the world to G Adventures, of course. That's a public one where we're their global agency of record for media and organic. Um and yeah, there's uh 55 other brands in there. So it's I don't even know where to begin. I we are we uh of course the big and exciting names are big and exciting, but also

Paid Media Benchmarks And Booking Seasons

SPEAKER_21 1:49:13

I uh get incredibly incredible levels of personal fulfillment and reward from working with the companies that are um on the way there that are not there yet.

SPEAKER_10 1:49:22

And the reason I wanted to ask that question is because many people listening to this need a marketing agency and a partner. A lot of these travel companies that have partnered with Propelic in the last couple of years have actually decided to move from an in-house team to utilizing an agency. G Adventures is a good example of that because they see huge benefit of working with Propelic. And that is, as Brendan knows from my background, I've managed an in house team and I've worked with agency partners. And you work with an agency partner when you can't build out those teams yourself and have that expertise, which is increasingly more complex, especially in the age of AI. And so before I switch on to that topic and some of Trends that you're seeing, Brennan. But for the companies that are listening to this to try and figure out wait a second, should we be working with Propelic, which is you know likely many of the people listening to this? Tell us a little bit about what is the kind of the ideal client size for you for how you kind of Shannon and the team are trying to assess the opportunity because clearly there's maybe many smaller companies out there that don't necessarily have the spend level. So when companies are thinking about uh working with Propelic in any of the different capacities, uh what would be your advice to them as far as when they should reach out?

SPEAKER_21 1:50:32

So I get I'm actually there's one piece of the company that I still am deeply involved in, and it's the second conversation any new potential customer has with us. Um after we've had an introduction, gotten to know a little bit, I step in and I run a strategy meeting. It's in that meeting where I decide yes or no. I think I've seen the pattern, I know how to fix this problem, we can take this project on and do good work. Um so for anybody who is on the fence about like, do you have the ability to meet our our our issue? Can you solve our issue, whatever that may be? We will tell you. That's first and foremost. You're not gonna you're not gonna end up down a path where it's not um where it's not the right fit because I don't want to I I'm not as worried at all about whether or not we work with companies as I am that it's a successful outcome when we do. So that's number one. I would say in terms of size or spend levels, I'm not as worried about that as I am levels or of maturity. Um we look for certain things like we want to work with someone, we cannot be the first agency. Um we won't be. Uh that's not something we're willing to do because we have no benchmark and they have no benchmark for what good versus not good looks like. Um and then other things would be uh are there really gaps that need to be filled? Is there a tracking deficit? Is there an attribution issue? Um, which the answer is yes, 99.5% of the time, um, just like 99.9% of germs are killed by most like hand soaps, you know. Um but I think that really it's a stage of maturity in terms of um what does the marketing team look like? Is there a project owner that's not the person spending the money? Lots of different things around those um narratives. It's very uh it can be it's hard to say with one key.

SPEAKER_10 1:52:05

Well, one thing I want to make sure all of our listeners do know, and you've probably heard this throughout our podcast whenever I'm doing a uh ad and a call out for Propelic, is that they do offer a free marketing audit to any of our travel trends listeners. So just feel free to reference that when you reach out. And this is where I've always encouraged any of our advisory clients or any uh of my close friends and associates in the industry, if they're looking for uh marketing, digital marketing support in any capacity, especially SEO and GEO, but also paid media, um just to reach out to the Propelic team and ask for a free marketing audit. Your team will get a huge amount of benefit from at least having that had the conversation uh with Brennan and the team. So definitely make sure to do that. But let's now let's talk about some of the cool stuff you guys are working on. Because one of the things that we feature in our newsletters, there's always a call out for Propelic every month, but every quarter we also feature one of your reports. And this is something that you know you have you have your blog, you have your own podcast, you guys have been very uh progressive in your approach to help educate the travel industry about great marketing. And but you've also been doing reporting, especially with the utilization of AI, and you were very early in that. Um, give everyone a bit of an overview of that report that you that you ran last year that is still really valuable and interesting, and really set the stage for even some of the focus right numbers of how Google had changed. You were very early in highlighting that. You were part of their AI summit earlier this year. Tell us a little bit about your work in GEO and AI optimization for travel brands.

SPEAKER_21 1:53:33

Uh to to um first, just because I'm very proud that um this is something where I have, you know, um personal fulfillment from educating, and one of my core values is generosity of knowledge, and thereby it's one of the companies as well. Um I we were we were first to market on any content AI search related for travel um because we know that if we don't pivot, then who's gonna pivot? Um it's our responsibility to support the companies we're working with. Um and if nobody is pushing to do that, and I will say that travel moves fairly slowly, even travel tech, um, then it then it's simply just gonna not be done right, and there's gonna be winners that have uh that are not the companies we work with, and that's not an acceptable outcome for me. Um some of the things that we've looked at are we ran the uh largest statistical analysis of how users are researching, planning, and booking with AI surfaces. Specifically, it was AI mode uh through a user experience study that uh got picked up uh uh uh by, you know, you mentioned focus, right? Um, travel news. Uh it was very well received in the industry, but we found things like um the distribution of how OTAs are showing up versus direct operators. We found things like um how important that Google business profile is for a hotel operator, for instance, uh to be their storefront in the AI mode surface. Um and then most recently, other research that we've done, um, we just released a paid media benchmarking report based on a quarter of a billion dollars NAT spend that we have in our data warehouse and uh showed trends, things that we learned along the lines of um not necessarily in the travel season, but in the booking seasons on the shoulder seasons of booking. Um, if you make your investments more significant in those periods of time, generally you're gonna see a much better bang for your buck than if you make the investments only in high tide booking season. So yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:55:20

Well, and so there's three things there. There is the AI work that you've done, which we could actually just do uh an entire episode of the podcast about, and obviously we'll likely touch on that when we do our three-part marketing series. There is the fact that you are looking at spend across $250 million uh across different travel brands, which is incredibly powerful for anyone to learn from. And then also the report that you did about the Middle East and how it's uh reshaping travel demand.

SPEAKER_21 1:55:46

Oh yes, that was a that was a race to the finish line. Um we really put because the data warehouse is new, and we really put that to the test. Um, and we're able to now query, at least we have the methodology now to be able to say, like, there's this global event happening, what's it doing to customer acquisition and travel, which is so exciting.

SPEAKER_10 1:56:01

And it's directly connected to the fact that we're here at Focus Right in Barcelona the very first day, was the Middle East conference because they couldn't hold it in the Middle East, so they moved it here to Barcelona and hosted it on the Monday. And a number of people were fascinated and very keen to see what's happening in the Middle East and how significant the impact it is having on travel came up at dinner last night with someone that was flying back to New Zealand via Toronto and uh not going through Dubai. Like global flight patterns have shifted, traveler behavior has been impacted. I know tour radars, one of your clients were both good friends with Travis, and Egypt has been impacted significantly. And this is where people need to know when Australians are not leaving the continent because they're afraid that they're not gonna be able to get back because of jet fuel. These are the things that and it's exactly why we started the Travel Trends Podcast. So my point of saying this is that these reports are timely, they're topical, they're important, um, and I love that you continue to do them. So it's not as if you're just doing them on digital marketing, you're actually tapping into the trends that are happening in the industry. So uh what's next, Brendan? For uh for Propelic. I know you're growing a team, you're growing the number of clients you have, you're at all the major conferences, you're building this, you know, the the um um the go-to marketing agency in the travel industry. Tell us what's next, what's in store?

SPEAKER_21 1:57:15

So, one of the things that I've noticed is we have this list of services that um situationally can be very useful for different brands depending on where they are in their stage of growth. One of those would be attribution modeling, for instance, another one would be the signal engineering piece, another one would be customer journey mapping. And those items historically have only been accessible through our long-term engagements. Um, we're modularizing them so we're able to help companies at their specific point of need with that issue, even if it's a one-time project. And I'm really excited about that because it will just make things more accessible that otherwise haven't been accessible to travel companies of more scope and more size, which is exciting for me.

SPEAKER_10 1:57:54

Yeah, that's fantastic. Well, let's make sure all of our listeners, I mean, propelic.com, propelic with two L's. Um if people want to reach out to you directly, Brennan, as a result of this or connect with John and the team, what would be the best ways for them to do that?

SPEAKER_21 1:58:06

Um I would say through um uh so if it's working with Propelic, for instance, um, I would go through the Propelic website and fill out the form on the contact page. Um for me, uh feel free to reach out on LinkedIn, Brennan Bliss spelled with an E or shoot me an email, Brennan at propelic.com.

SPEAKER_10 1:58:22

Thanks again, Brennan, for being here, making the time for this. Obviously, it's fantastic to see you again. Thanks for our friendship, thanks for our continued partnership, wishing you and the team every success. And look forward to seeing you again at the next conference, which is again coming up soon. I know you're traveling on from here uh to Brisbane for arrival. So tell people where they uh they can find you. And again, thanks again for being here.

SPEAKER_21 1:58:42

Yeah, absolutely. So getting a hold of me, it would be through uh my email, Brennan at propelic.com, Brennan with an E, and then um, or LinkedIn is also good. Um, and then for the team, if you want to look at working with Propelic, I would do that at propelic.com. Click on the contact page. Um, thanks so much, Stan, for having me. It's always great to talk.

Welcome Pickups Elevates Arrival

SPEAKER_10 1:59:01

Our next guest is the CEO and co-founder of Welcome Pickups. It's Alex Tremis, and he and I were on a panel together yesterday, which was really fantastic. It was a round table. Uh, we had Reno join us as well uh from the federal uh Switzerland Railways, and then also Christiane um from uh SiteMinder. So we kind of had the hotel perspective, we had the rail perspective, and very importantly, we had Alex's perspective as we talked about ground transportation and the reality of uh how we can improve as an industry the guest experience when they're welcome to a destination. It was a really fantastic session, and uh Alex and the team kindly asked me to uh to moderate that panel. So, first I wanted to start with a thank you, and then also a welcome uh to Alex, the uh CEO and co-founder of Welcome Pickups. Great to have you with us.

SPEAKER_16 1:59:48

Thank you, Dan. Uh you you did an amazing job, as always. Like we had the last panel together too, and like uh uh you're an amazing host. Thanks for hosting. And I think it was an interesting discussion with the panel, and I'm glad that we are taking the lead and we're pushing this discussion in these conferences uh around ground transportation, ground arrival experience, ground you know, uh what uh we see as an important piece missing uh uh of the travel industry.

SPEAKER_10 2:00:18

Totally agree. And it was fascinating for me because as you mentioned, when we were in San Diego, I had the opportunity to be on the panel, and then this time you guys kindly asked me uh to moderate, which was obviously a thrill to be part of that session because I like you, but obviously you're running this business, I like you uh strongly believe there's a big opportunity to help people better understand how they can improve the arrival experience, including making sure that you actually have someone there to pick you up when you when you arrive on the other end. So it's uh and I think it's an unrealized opportunity. Let's so let's actually uh just to bring our audience along, um, give them an understanding of welcome pickups because you have you just even in the last year, the deal you did with Airbnb was significant. The number of people that have commented here, uh, and there was someone that came up and spoke to us yesterday and who will be on this podcast recording as well. Uh when you came over, he was just like, I've been using your service for the last like uh several months. I love it. I've I've he was in Tashkent recently, and he was it came uh into our session as well. Anyway, you've got a lot of raving fans, including staff here at Focus Right that use Welcome Pickups. So it's really cool to see your success, the continued progress. So tell everyone though about Welcome Pickups, you know, the company you created and where you guys are based and and what you guys do.

SPEAKER_16 2:01:32

Yeah, the short version of that is that you know we started a different I started a different company that basically wanted you to connect you with the local side of a city, right? And then take you behind the scenes and behind what you uh uh see normally. And that didn't work for many reasons, but then we said, okay, what's something everybody needs and is poor, you know, poorly served right now? And it was the the ride from the airport to the hotel, and like everybody was seeing that as a commoditized thing, as a necessity, as a logistics problem. And we said, why not turning that to the first amazing travel experience you're going to have? You have so many amazing locals who can share their perspective, they can tell you about your their city, they can like intro you in the right way, and you know, you're missing that opportunity, and you're having either a bad taxi ride or you know, a bad uh you know, uh, and um we're saying, okay, how how can we do it? And and you know, in the beginning, when we're more naive, we started like with with normal people and we said, okay, let's have like a person who is planning to be a diplomat or like an English teacher or like uh with their own cars, like testing things, etc. But then because of you know the licensing structure and all that, we we turned to professionals, but we kept that mentality of we really need people who are ambassadors and mayors of their city that know their city, they can tell you about their city, um, they can hear their stories of the city, and then it's not just the arrival, right? Because we see it as the first step, and if you do a really good uh first step, as we were saying yesterday, the hotel will be happy, the guests will be happy, the destination will be happy, right? And then the the traveler can keep on discussing with you, can keep on the conversation with you on what else is there to do, what else are you suggesting, what else can we be doing? Um so so so that's the main premise, right? So we start from from that first experience, we make it super personalized, friendly, easy, um, and we build on top of that. Um and and the way it works, just just uh uh on simple terms, like you pre-book, you prepay, you know the driver beforehand, you can chat chat with the driver, you have you know locked the price. The moment you arrive at the destination, you meet that driver uh at the exit gate, you know, he will take you and like do uh a mini-interveil of the city, or like you can ask questions. Um and the driver would speak English, and and that's available everywhere, right? So you don't have to worry. And another thing we're discussing yesterday is like people are afraid of traveling, and like people haven't been traveling a lot. But so for someone, Paris is a weird place. It's uh foreign place if you're traveling from uh the US for the first time. Uh but uh you know, for an experienced traveler, you know, Cairo is a is a weird place how even you know how how many travels you have done. Uh so either you're arriving in you know Buenos Aires, Mexico City, uh Cairo, Bali, like uh wherever, like you can have that service. And it's like this is a great you know uh peace of mind to have as a traveler, uh, and it opens your your your desire to travel to to further out places.

SPEAKER_10 2:04:54

Yeah, no, I completely agree. So there's a number of things you said there that I find are really interesting. Obviously, the um the arrival experience itself, which can be dramatically approved for most guests while traveling, a lot of tour operators will include the transfers. You know, companies like Colette, for example, they have uh free transfers both ways. I've always tried to encourage anyone traveling with a guided tour to arrange a transfer. I mean, many times these guided tours will have someone that will pick them up or get the coach to be ready right away. But very most often they have to get their way, they have to get to the hotel. Like their starting point is the hotel, but they have to get from the airport to the hotel. And as you just described, for most uh people it can be overwhelming, especially when it's a foreign language or an unfamiliar place, and they're concerned about their safety and well-being. It's like, why would you ever start your trip without feeling like there's someone on the other end that's gonna be there waiting for you? And what a wonderful uh feeling it is when someone is there holding a sign with your name on it. And um, I've always d taken that opportunity traveling with my uh young kids. We arrived in Costa Rica for the first time just on our own and were overwhelmed. We thought Costa Rica was gonna be far more developed at the time than it was, and it was very all the touts and the people trying to pull us in different directions, and it was it was a very stressful experience. And I said, I don't ever want this again. I want to make sure that we always arrive and we're like that take the stress out of arrival. But the other thing you just mentioned is also really important, is and for those of you who are following along and multitasking, it's welcome pickups.com. And one thing you'll see it's beyond transfers, it's sightseeing rides. And this is the part that really I think there's a huge opportunity and a huge unlock for you and the team, is that once you get to the destination, and I'd mentioned this to Alex that we had gone to um Cancun earlier this year, and we had transfers for our family, but then my wife and I went and did Chichenica with the same company, and so we had a comfort level now with uh who'd picked us up and was gonna take us back to the airport, and then on the final day, rather than just going back to the airport, I said, actually, can you pick us up five hours before and do a half day and we can go see three places? And it was like it made our trip so much better. And all these other people were sitting around the resort waiting for their flight for five or six hours in the lobby because of just the way that uh the scheduling is. I was like, we had this great extra day. Yeah, and so tell us a little bit more about those sightseeing rides and how you're moving beyond just the transfer.

Sightseeing Rides And Loyalty Flywheel

SPEAKER_16 2:07:09

Yeah, the the idea behind that is that as you said, like, you know, you travel to Cancun with your family, you travel to Barcelona for this conference, like Dan is not the same guy, uh, you know, in every trip he's he's taking. And at the same time, um uh you know, your your your trip profile sent us. And uh it's different when you arrive at 8 a.m. and you can have a day. It's different if you're arriving at 5 p.m. It's different if you're arriving at 2 a.m. Like and and we treat all these cases in the same way. Like I'll get a taxi, I'll go to the hotel, and then you might not be able to check in, or you might not be able to find that. So it's it's it's much more complex and much more different, much more personalized what can be done, and especially in the era of you know AI and data and all that, like it's it's a pity to not have that personalization, right? And and depend on like the random coach or the bus that will take you to a destination and then uh you're you're treated as a herd and like as a as a as a as a as a seat. Uh so about sightseeing, the the whole idea is that if I know that Dan is traveling to Cancun with his wife and his kids, um, and I know that he's you know it's his first time in Cancun, it's uh you know he's going to stay five days, um he uh is you know he's interested in history and this and that, then I can make personal suggestions to that, right? So I can start saying, wait, you should definitely do this food tour, like that, you know, sightseeing or that restaurant or that other thing. So I have the data because I connect, I have the airline data, I have the hotel data. I I I'm I'm spending about an hour with Dan in the car sharing what he's going to do. So I can leverage and piggyback on that data and like start doing uh things for Dan that Dan will appreciate. And it's like uh on the sightseeing part, you know, if you if you land in Cancun and you meet Juan, and then you know, you build a bond with Juan, and then Juan says, How about we do this tomorrow? I really like Juan, let's let's go to the Timeter. And then uh uh then Juan says, How about like I pick you up tomorrow? Why not? Like Juan's amazing guy. So and Juan's becoming your best buddy, it's amazing. You always remember Juan and Cancun, right? So that's the idea.

SPEAKER_10 2:09:32

It's so true. Like that's uh that was exactly our experience. And I was like, why don't more people travel like this? It was like it was it was still the cost was reasonable, but everyone, like our kids were happier, like and it was just our bags were in the vehicle. We got to go and like to a restaurant, we had to go shopping. We're like, this is fantastic. We're like, why didn't we discover this sooner? Uh and speaking of that, you've had this company for nearly 12 years. You're based in Athens, and the scale of the company, like you guys, when I mentioned you guys are going from strength to strength, you're in like 374 destinations around the world. You've got more than 1,500 hotel partners, and um I think you've had almost 3 million customers. Like it's just like um so tell everyone where Welcome Pickup is today and your plans over the next six to 12 months with how you're gonna continue to grow this business.

SPEAKER_16 2:10:19

Uh yeah, I think I think we're entering the third phase of the company. Like, you know, the first phase was you know 2015 and in 2020. We're like learning uh the roads, you know, product market fit, growing the company. Then COVID happened, and we need to step back and like rethink our operating model and make sure that we're profitable and grew a lot uh profitably after that. Uh and we're still profitable and growing. And then um now we're entering this third phase where we're trying to push the word out and create more brand awareness and change the brand identity of the company to expand outside of the transfers uh into the arrival experience and to the overall indestination experience, um, and and become that gold standard. Either you're a traveler and you're traveling somewhere and you're thinking, okay, what am I going to do about that problem that welcome picks, uh welcome pickups is in your mind, or your partner like Airbnb, or like uh uh an airline or like Booking or like other partners we have, and it's like, okay, who should I work with on this problem, right? And and this year we'll we'll service about four million travelers. Um and and we're growing nicely like uh a lot year over year, and like you know, deals like Airbnb uh are definitely very helpful and and and the team there is amazing, and we're doing great things because you know more and more people realize the problem and realize uh that once they implement a solution like that, it actually works. It actually works. It's not like another um service that you might want, it's something that you really need. Uh and especially if we're going to vacation rental, and it's like you don't have a front desk, you don't have a lobby, you don't know where you're put your putting your bags. Why wouldn't you look for a service like us? And like uh the partnership is going great with everyone being very happy about that.

SPEAKER_10 2:12:06

No, that's fantastic. No, I'm so happy for you and the team. And as I've gotten to know uh various team members at Welcome Pickups from last year's Focus Right and even preparing for this one, like you've got a really solid team around you as well. So credit to you for building a great culture of the company. Um to bring us to where we are today in Barcelona as the conference is in its final day. And as people are listening to this, we've had a number of different really interesting conversations with executives and people come together for this conference. I know one of the key reasons for you being here is you know being a part of the round table. And uh, but what are some of the other reasons that you come to Focus Right? Because clearly, to me, I see welcome pickups like there's so much opportunity for you here. But so I'm I'm keen to know outside of that session and our recording, you're very active in meetings and and everything else going on. Tell us uh some of the other highlights of being here and what brings you to Focus Right, Euro.

SPEAKER_16 2:12:57

Yeah, I I'm a big uh I'm a loyal fan of Focus Right. Uh over the years, especially after COVID. Uh I haven't missed like uh either the Europe one or the US one because I really believe it's a great place to meet people and potential partners or see partners. Um and the sessions are great, but like you know, the the connections that happen outside of those sessions uh are even more amazing. So, you know, we we see Focus Ride as the place to go and meet uh interesting people and and you know, credit to Pete and the team uh of of setting up uh a great conference. So yeah, I mean uh meeting new partners is a key for us and understanding how we can you know um uh create synergies and grow together with with other companies. I think I think that's the main Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_10 2:13:45

I mean, I know we'll see each other again in Florida later this year, and then the next conference will be uh in London next year. And so I see welcome pickups as being like a permanent fixture of of uh focus, right? Um and hopefully uh also growing the awareness for ground transportation because we did have a uh uh a full house yesterday and there was a lot of other sessions we were up against. And I was impressed in San Diego that we had a full room of 50 plus people in that instance uh that were very interesting in ground transport. Because when you look at the options and people are like ground transport, what's all that about? Like it seems like the less interesting, but actually, as we both agree, it has the most significant potential. It's the most misunderstood and uh the least so I think the one thing that was a real highlight for me from yesterday's session, too, was the number of ideas that people were coming up with with how they could actually better improve the guest experience and all the benefits to do that. Um, so to finish along those lines, I would love to hear where you think this industry is headed over the next year until we you know we see each other again in um say Florida in six months or a year in London. Um tell us a little bit more about what you have planned for Wellcome pickups and also how you see the industry changing.

SPEAKER_16 2:14:52

Yeah, I mean for us for welcome, uh like uh we want to keep on growing and and keep on adding, you know, um uh improving the experience. Like for us, we're not happy. Like we have a great NPS, you know, it's plus 83, you know, great scores, great, great um public scores and reviews, but like we we don't want to stop. We want to keep on thinking, okay, you know, what else, how else can we improve the service? And this is you know a very uh important uh component of our next steps and what people need and how we can service uh that need. Um and regarding ground transportation for for us is like um, you know, before when we talked in in uh um uh in the US and San Diego, there was no uh Airbnb partnership yet. Right. So um and there was no Expedia and Uber partnership. There was no like and and I'm very happy that ground transportation is becoming uh a topic and it's becoming something that people are saying, okay, like why nobody has ever like really gone deeper in that problem. It's like why everybody has accepted a bad service, accepted that this part of the journey needs to be stressful or needs to be bad, and like, okay, we'll power through and we'll get to the hotel, and then the trip will start. And so we're always saying, you know, the trip needs to start the moment you step on the destination. You don't have to like power through to the next step. And I'm very happy that you know these discussions are happening, and we're not just discussing about another solution that can bring you know 0.5% on your like margin or something, and and we're discussing about something that's truly important for the traveler, right? And truly important for the experience.

SPEAKER_10 2:16:33

Yeah, the one other thing that I'm also bullish on about this category is how loyal people are to ground tour ground transport once they've found someone. You gave that exp uh that uh great example with someone you meet on holiday, like Juan, and you have a fantastic week. But the reality is if you have that great experience with Juan by virtue of welcome pickups, all of a sudden welcome pickups becomes your go-to for everything. And so hearing a number of people here comment on just how uh massive fans they are, for me, as you have all those new partnerships, the reality is like it's obviously a very exciting time for you to be in this business because how it's gonna scale over the next uh few years by virtue of the fact that you're gonna bring in all these customers and they will then become loyal to the welcome pickups experience. That's like that's gonna be their default. Kind of like people like they'll use the same hairdresser or the same dentist. There's certain things when you know that someone can reliably get you to the airport or pick you up from the airport. Why would you choose someone else when you have someone that you like and you enjoy working with and you have um great experience? You know, they'll keep coming back. So is that is that lifetime customer value has to be epic focus for you?

SPEAKER_16 2:17:37

Yeah, I mean 50% of our business coming direct. So from people using us again and again, and like we we are everybody's like, first of all, in our sector, most people go and like attach themselves to another brand. So 90% of their business is B2B to C. So they're they're going to a partner, they're often making a commoditized you know product and they're trying to get a margin out of that, and that that's what you see. But we are, I think, one of the very, very few ones that have you know such a big exposure to direct to B2C, and that's you know a key part of our strategy. How do I get done in the first uh trip in with Juan, and then how he comes back and he's happy and he's keep on using welcome. So so this definitely is one part, and the other one is uh that's why I was saying gold standard for the traveler, but also for the partner. How can we make sure that the you know the next big brand uh is understanding the problem and is working with us to to solve that that gap? Um so yeah, yeah, very happy uh about the the future of this.

SPEAKER_10 2:18:45

Yeah, as you should be. I mean, you guys have become the ground leader and the global leader in ground transportation, and not only is the scale of the customers so impressive and the partnerships, but the idea of this hassle-free automation that is actually I think is uh um still a huge unlock for the industry. So I'm I'm I'm bullish on this sector. I'm obviously um very optimistic for your continued growth. Obviously, I'm delighted for you and the team. Um on that note, I want to make sure anyone listening to this that is like, wait a second, we should be working with welcome pickups. Uh, what would be the best ways for people to reach out to you and the team?

SPEAKER_16 2:19:20

That's a good question. Um we have uh an amazing team. Um I can share the the details with you, Dan, and then we can we can add them in uh in the podcast these videos. I mean, uh I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on like I'm not a big Twitter fan or like I'm not like a big social fan, but like you can find me uh uh on LinkedIn and connect there and like we can follow up with all the details.

SPEAKER_10 2:19:47

And just for those people who are, most people will obviously be using uh LinkedIn. Um it's Alexandros uh Tremis, but obviously you go by Alex. So um just when you're typing that in. But if you type in Alex Tremis and then Welcome Pickups, you will you will find him yourself. And um uh obviously welcome pickups.com so people can reach out to uh your team. But uh yeah, very, very excited for you and obviously great to see you again. Thanks for uh making the time for this and have an amazing rest of 2026, and I look forward to seeing you again in Florida in November.

SPEAKER_16 2:20:19

Yeah, thanks Dan and thanks again for the panel and and thanks for hosting me here. And it's uh amazing to see you again.

Travalyst Makes Sustainability Actionable

SPEAKER_10 2:20:28

Our next guest here live in Barcelona at the Focused Right conference is Julie Cheatham. She is the CEO of Travelist. Welcome to the Travel Trends Podcast. Julie, thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_08 2:20:38

Hi, Dan. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_10 2:20:39

Of course, I'm very keen to have you on this special event spotlight episode. Not only because you're a senior executive in the industry, but also I want you to explain Travelist to our listeners. So let's let's start there. For anyone's not familiar with the brand and what you guys do, would you please give us a bit of an overview?

SPEAKER_08 2:20:54

Sure, I'd love to. Travelist was founded back in 2019 by Prince Harry, the Duke of Sussex. And at the time he got a number of major travel and technology brands around the table and asked them, what can we do for making the world a better place together? So, from a sustainability perspective, how can we collaborate? And that was the genesis of Travelist. We're a not-for-profit company that's a voluntary coalition of three trillion dollars worth of travel tech payments, other companies like your Google's booking, skyscan, expedia, trip.com. We all get together to work on making travel impacts better for people and planet.

SPEAKER_10 2:21:38

Well, and just as our listeners, I always want to make sure as people are multitasking. If you're driving in the car, uh wait till you uh wait wait till you get to your desktop. It's so it's travelist.org. So travel list. I love obviously like catalyst.

SPEAKER_08 2:21:51

Yeah, the travel being the catalyst, right? For good impact. Love it.

SPEAKER_10 2:21:54

Yeah, and so it's a really uh powerful backstory. Tell everyone about your role there, obviously the CEO, but you're from South Africa originally. Tell tell our listeners how you got involved with Travelist.

SPEAKER_08 2:22:04

Sure. So uh in 2024, Travelist acquired uh bit of software that I had been the founding CEO of part of the developing team uh uh called Weaver, and that was with the intention of having a data ecosystem that could ungate sustainability data for the world, right? So, how do we have a global database of really important information for travelers, businesses, destinations, and policymakers? Um and I got into travel tech a little bit by accident. My background actually is in financial services, where I spent the first 15 years of my career. And um and now the next almost 15 years have been very much on sustainability in the travel industry, conservation, human rights in the travel industry. And it became evident to me the only way to really scale any work is to make it digital, right? Hence the first startup, hence the journey into travelists.

SPEAKER_10 2:23:01

Fantastic. Well, and so I know this is your very first focus right conference, focus right Europe conference, I should be specific. Yes. Um tell everyone what brought you here this year. What was the uh what was the catalyst for you coming to the event uh for travelists?

SPEAKER_08 2:23:14

For travelist, uh we're facing into multiple sort of um, I guess, well, inflection points at the moment. So traveler demand is changing, technology is changing so fast, it's so difficult for to keep up, you know, as as an intermediary of the industry. Um and uh and we're seeing that impact all of our partners, our coalition, what do we work on. And so Focus Right really seems the place to be to find out who's doing what, who's focusing on what, what's important to the industry, what's important to the consumers. Um, and so I'm here to keep my finger on the pulse.

SPEAKER_10 2:23:51

That's great. Well, and one of the things that I always uh talk about on our podcast is sustainability and and using travel as a force for good.

SPEAKER_11 2:23:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 2:23:59

And so clearly, and and um I was born in England, I have an affinity for uh for Prince Harry myself, and um and so given the royal family, the background, for me, and this is where when you think about the work that they do, the intention is to do social good. And to um and so tell us a little bit about you know the organization, where you guys are today, some of the the initiatives you're working on. And I'm hoping too, Julie, that we're starting to see more of a trend of people actually embracing companies like Travelist because ultimately the only way we're gonna continue to live on this planet happily together and see the planet go forward is to take better care of it and each other. So tell us a little bit more about your mission and and hopefully some optimistic signs of human behavior.

SPEAKER_08 2:24:46

Yeah, so absolutely. I think that you know, using uh soft diplomacy through industry coalitions, through the public sector and the private sector working together with perhaps some, you know, ca philanthropic funding to actually be able to scale and catalyse things. I think all of these kinds of partnerships are just critical for us to move forward and as you say, to sort of meet the needs of planet and people, right? And so the first five years of Travelist was really focused on what is the first most helpful solution going to be. And together with our coalition and Google was a main partner in this, we launched the travel impact model, which helps travelers to understand the carbon footprint of their flights. And so if you are looking for a flight pretty much on any search engine and you see the you know the carbon equivalent of your flight, that is because travelist coalition partners made it happen. And so that information's appeared in front of more than 160 billion searches to date. So I mean that's that's massive, right? And so if even 4% or 10% of travelers are making a decision to take a more sustainable flight that's got a similar route and a similar cost, that's having a huge impact in decarbonization.

SPEAKER_11 2:25:58

Right.

SPEAKER_08 2:25:59

Um the we're in year two now of our second five-year journey, and the focus is on doing the same for rail and for accommodation. And so the accommodation MVP has been launched, rail will launch uh in this next quarter. And the ultimate goal is really to help travelers, destinations, and policymakers have better information so that they can change, right? So that we've got some evidence-based planning and tracking. Um, we're also very involved in the policy space, really trying to be a voice for uh that sort of matches consumer needs, um, needs of communities, needs of the planet, our partners' voices, suppliers' voices, and then bring that to the table where policy is being made and implemented.

SPEAKER_10 2:26:44

Yeah, that's great. I want to speak a bit more about the industry side, but just for any of our listeners, travelers, you have um more information, they can go and find out about how to travel more sustainably. Yeah. And so I definitely encourage our listeners to check that out on the website. When it comes to the industry side, you have some incredible partnerships. And you know, Booking.com is one of them, Amadeus, Expedia, Google, Saber, I mean, all the big names in travel. And that's incredibly encouraging to see. I guess that

Rail And Hotel Impact Data

SPEAKER_10 2:27:12

when uh industry players are looking to collaborate with you, um what's the best way for them to do that? How do they reach out? How do they get connected? What are, you know, especially when you're advocating, but what are some of the the ways that they actually can partner with you? What would be some good examples that all of our B2B listeners can wrap their head around?

SPEAKER_08 2:27:29

Sure. So we have different kinds of partnerships at Travelist, and um all of those big names that you mentioned are part of our coalition. They sit around a coalition council, we meet regularly, we try to pool our resources and our our thought leadership to create solutions for the industry. And then we have uh industry specialist partners that sometimes could be smaller uh entities that are really passionate about something. Like one of our partners, Squake, has helped us with a rail methodology for Rail Footprint. And now we're open sourcing that and making accessible to everybody. Um and so you can be a technical specialist or an industry specialist in just one or two things, or you can be a big global OTA or payment platform or um uh CMS or PMS or you know, and the more the merrier. So whilst we're quite selective about who gets to sit at that coalition table, there are a lot of gaps. Uh our big tourism ecosystem hasn't got a representation from everyone around that table yet. So please, if you want to join us, get in touch with me.

SPEAKER_10 2:28:31

Definitely. And I just wanted to highlight too I mean, some of the stats that uh we have been tracking on our podcast around travelers taking much more interest in sustainability. And booking.com is a good example of that. You know, you can now search with filters that will give you an idea of what properties are greener. Um and this is where pre-pandemic we would see out of uh the top ten reasons that people travel, sustainability was like eight, nine, or ten. Like it was like it was a nice to have post-pandemic, given that time that reset, because the things you're focused on around wildlife and um uh and protecting uh habitats and and um the we saw that break in travel uh and the impact when all of a sudden there weren't planes in the air, and and so when travel came back, all of a sudden people were more mindful, especially because and I and I say that with one caveat, we also saw everyone rush back to Europe and like southern Italy, and it was like overcrowded and overheated. So everyone also quickly realized the limitations of um the travel industry um going in the direction that it was pre-pandemic. So you have a stat that 75% of travelers want to travel more sustainably over the next 12 months. I found that really interesting because it it stands it it is very much consistent with what we are seeing across the industry is that travelers, this is this is table stakes now. This is essential. Like that any tra no traveler is gonna choose a company unless they understand that their commitment towards sustainability. So tell us if you wouldn't mind sharing a few more stats along those lines that will hopefully make sure that all of our listeners, from a commercial business point of view, realize that we need this is not a um a cost center, this is actually a revenue driver.

SPEAKER_08 2:30:09

Absolutely. Well, you know, and the thing is that sometimes those stats um can be tricky because you can ask someone what they intend to do and then where they actually make their purchase decision, that intention might not, you know, follow through, that intention action gap. But as you mentioned, those stats coming out of the Booking.com recently released report and also Expedia's recent report do show us that it is increasingly a um decision that travelers are making. Booking.com recorded over a million bednights that have a third-party verified sustainability certification. So people are actively searching at least a million bednights last year for a hotel that has been certified to be doing the right thing for people and planet. Um and it goes even higher than that quite quickly when you look at generations. So we've got uh fantastic info out of Expedia's latest report that says Gen Z and millennial travelers are over 90% indicating that they will travel out of season on the fringe to lesser visited destinations, and also that they will consider social and environmental impact choices when they're traveling. Over 90%. So that action and intention gap is closing with the younger generations of travelers.

SPEAKER_10 2:31:23

Fascinating. And one thing I know you've just recently published too is your travelist annual uh uh report for 2026, which is only a fresh of the last uh couple of months. I had downloaded this and I was having a look through, and I would just, if you wouldn't mind

AI Guardrails And Data Center Costs

SPEAKER_10 2:31:36

along the same lines, sharing a few of those observations that and I this is where for our listeners, some kind of valuable nuggets of information around um what you're what you're seeing when you put those reports together.

SPEAKER_08 2:31:48

So actually that was so that was last year's report, and this year's report is coming out next week.

SPEAKER_10 2:31:54

Oh my goodness, I was seeing March 17th. I was like, I thought there was one from uh in March 2026.

SPEAKER_08 2:31:59

So no, so you'll see you'll see, so the 2025 uh impact report will be released next week at London Climate Action Week.

SPEAKER_11 2:32:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 2:32:07

And then you'll see all the most um up-to-date trends and analytics and and thoughts. But uh some of the things that we're seeing there are some of the demand uh bits that we've just discussed coming out of booking, um, Amadeus's report, Sixpedia's report. Um, and that's also why the certifications initiative is so important, because right now we're seeing increased regulations on consumer communication. And so what we can currently legally and compliantly put in front of a traveler is limited, right? It has to be audited by a third party, and this is with the incoming EU regulations for empowering consumers with a green transition. And so these certifications and these labels become so important to communicate to travelers, whether it's a flight emissions label or uh a sustainable certification label. Um, and then AI is really starting to guide decision making in travelers. We're seeing that. Um we've seen an increase in travelers booking their travel using AI from 47% in 2024 to 54% in 2025. But we know that up to 90% of travelers are using AI and large language models to actually plan their trip, research their trip, even if they're not booking necessarily on those platforms. And that gap is just gonna narrow, right?

SPEAKER_11 2:33:25

For sure.

SPEAKER_08 2:33:26

And then the other thing that we're seeing is that expectations are rising. So um when you spoke earlier about data being the new currency, I think we're we're very quickly seeing the death of estimation. There's so much information, and technology is so powerful that we're closing the gap very quickly between um saying things that can't be proved or have evidence bases. Um, often referred to as the godfather of sustainability, John Elkington recently said the era of soft sustainability is over. And how I interpret that. Is you know, we often have got these two streams of comms. Like, what do we say to our customers, our travelers? And that's very marketing fuzzy, perhaps not as fact-based. Um, and then we have these corporate reporting, ESG, financial standard disclosures that are very different and it's far more onerous. And thanks to technology and information availability, I see those converging really quickly now. I don't think you'll have two different sets of data and analytics within the next five years. It'll be one and the same and it will be regulated and it will be transparent.

SPEAKER_10 2:34:33

Yeah, that's exciting. That's and very encouraging. And that this conversation has made me much more optimistic about the future. Because one of the things that comes up when uh talking about AI that uh is how much environmental impact it has by virtue of the power that's needed um to run all those data centers. And there's you know, there's a a huge what right now would be a hidden cost and a societal impact of building all these data centers. And these are the things we're gonna be grappling with over the next few years. So we're seeing all this excitement around the technology, um, but it's gonna have significant ramifications in our work life and obviously in uh uh for the environment. And so uh that's one thing I would love to see travelists continue to lead the charge on to be able to have those conversations around yes, AI can do a lot of good, but we also need to be mindful of the negative impacts and what it means for the travel industry. So um uh I'd love to have you back on the podcast at some point and you know to continue to explore that and potentially even our our summit later this year where we're talking about beyond AI and the idea being, you know, what role do humans have what's what is the really the essential role of humans in travel? And ultimately I'm I'm very encouraged because human connection is what we're all seeking from uh from our travel experiences. And so um, so I I I get I definitely want to be measured in our approach of AI. So uh I'd love to get your last take on that, and maybe if you can share with our listeners uh also the ways beyond the website to connect with you, to learn more about travelists and and uh a ways to connect with the team.

SPEAKER_08 2:36:02

Sure. So you're absolutely right. AI can be so powerful, and even with our um OTA partners right now, we're seeing how they're busy using smart technology to disperse um unbalanced tourism, right? Sending tourists on fringe seasons or sending them to the second or third most popular um visiting spots in a destination to try and better balance that tourism, make it a better experience for travellers and communities. And we can do that in real time to say, go to this particular uh experience later this afternoon, it's not as crowded as this morning. So the potential is endless, right? But what are the guardrails, what are our responsibilities? Um we know that, for example, areas around a data center, for up to 10 kilometers radius around a data center, the ground temperatures can rise up to two degrees Celsius. So, I mean, that's significant, let alone the water and um the energy consumption. And we have a responsibility as an industry to work on that. We're in a unique position as a coalition to approach this as a team of partners because no one organization or or industry body or government can solve this on their own, right? And that's what makes makes Travelist exciting, is that we try to work on these these things together. Um we've actually recently launched an internal partner working group on AI. So watch this space. I'll be able to tell you more when we talk next.

SPEAKER_10 2:37:22

Awesome. I look forward to it. Yeah, and let's make sure I'm definitely gonna follow your journey and look forward to speaking again. And let's make sure that all of our listeners can do the same.

SPEAKER_08 2:37:31

Thanks. Uh well, there's um the uh information at travelist.org email address, which you can get on our website. But please feel free to contact me directly if you'd like to go look into partnership with us. That's uh julie.cheatum at travelist.org. That's T-R-A-V-A-L-I-Y-S-T.

SPEAKER_10 2:37:50

Awesome. And I'll make sure it's in the show notes as well. But I um I'm sure a number of people will reach out to you because this is where I feel like you know there's still a lot of strategic advantage for travel companies to embrace this in the right way to make a meaningful difference, but also to uh to integrate it in a way that their customers will see that they truly are committed to this. And um, so yeah, I I'm uh it's a real honor to meet you finally. I've uh been very uh impressed with your work and obviously will continue to uh support and stay in touch. But Julie, a real pleasure to meet you. Thanks so much for joining us for this.

SPEAKER_08 2:38:23

Thanks so much for having me, and uh yeah, it's been a great pleasure to have the chat.

Rail Europe Product And AI Use

SPEAKER_10 2:38:29

Our next guest is the chief product officer at Rail Europe. Rail Europe has been on our podcast a number of times. Bjorn Bender. We did a fantastic uh session with him in last season. We did a special focus on Rail, uh, our partnership with Railbookers and Frank Marini. I love talking about Rail. I love this uh side of the industry. So it's fantastic now to have a sit down with Seb Herbranda, the Chief Product Officer of Rail Europe. Seb, great to have you on the Travel Trends Podcast. Great to be here, Dan. Really looking forward to it. Tell us about your role, chief product officer. That's got to be a pretty cool gig.

SPEAKER_15 2:39:04

It is a pretty cool gig. It's also a very challenging gig, but that's uh that's what we're here for, right? And um, yeah, it's it's bringing uh something extremely complex on the back end because we're working directly with uh about 250 real providers and unlocking that content to our clients and undoing that for both B2C and B2B is uh is what we're in for.

SPEAKER_10 2:39:25

Fantastic. And this is your first focus right conference?

SPEAKER_15 2:39:28

It is definitely my first focus right conference, and it's been um it's been great. I come from fintech, which is a let a lot less personal, so it's really cool to see that personal relations still really, really matter, and um yeah, travel is just uh a fun industry to be in for sure.

SPEAKER_10 2:39:43

Totally, yeah. And let's make sure all any of our listeners that are not familiar with Rail Europe, if they haven't heard Bjorn on the podcast before, I think most people think of Rail Europe, they think of the uh Rail Europe past that they can get, but tell everyone about Rail Europe because in the episode that I encourage people to listen to, uh, I was fascinated to get the backstory of Rail Europe. The fact that the company was actually created in New York City in the 1930s. That was like uh I uh it was so many fascinating things I learned about the business and the brand, and then where you guys are today in terms of scale. Uh, give everyone a brief overview of Rail Europe.

SPEAKER_15 2:40:14

Yeah, sure. It's it's definitely for me a change uh being in a company that's almost 100 years old, so really coming from uh that historic kind of uh train industry, uh which of course is 200 years old, and what we're doing is unlocking the content, unlocking the real journeys for users, mainly overseas, so international travelers, uh leisure travelers coming to Europe that really want to experience Europe, in my view, in the best way, and we unlock that content for them. So it is really about people that are unfamiliar with the European uh real system, unfamiliar with the different carriers, unfamiliar with how train travel actually goes, and we unlock that um those journeys for them, and we do that uh directly for our end users, so on our consumer platform, but also through our API and our B2B platform for agents all over the world. We have about uh 25,000 agents connected all over the world that enable their travelers, whether they're in Australia, in India, in China, in the US, in Latem, to travel through Europe in um in the best way and really have that experience outside of the big travel hubs, outside of the big airports, and and and see see the continent for what it is.

SPEAKER_10 2:41:22

Yeah, no, it's an amazing company, great business, and obviously, one of the things that you guys work with, as you highlighted, is all the B2B partners. You're growing in B2C and B2B, but B2B has been a huge growth for Rail Europe. Um, tell us a little bit more about your role as the chief product officer, and that's why I say it's a cool gig because I love uh when you get to enhance the product experience for guests. I know I love that side of the business. So tell everyone a little bit more about what you're focusing on and what are some of the new projects and enhancements that you are that you and the team are bringing.

SPEAKER_15 2:41:51

Yeah, so for us, it is um if we look at so B2B and B2C are very, very different in that sense uh because obviously B2C we can directly talk to the end customer, and I always um highlight with our teams there is a C in every B2B. For us, we focus on leisure travelers, and there is a C at the end of the chain, right? There's always an end customer, always a traveler at the end of the chain. So we focus on bringing those journeys, those experiences to these end users. And um, if we look at the B2B space, there's two things that are super important for us, and that is making real content sellable and making it operable. Because the the biggest problem that our uh B2B partners have is that real is scary, real is complex, real is just uh a level up from what they're used to sell, but customers want it. Like we see so many customers that really ask for um real journeys in Europe, so our agents all over the world are really required to sell that. And yeah, we we bring those experiences to life, and and it's it's not about I want to go from uh we're today in Barcelona, I want to go from Barcelona to Madrid. It is about I want to experience France, I want to experience uh Italy, or both of them, and how do I make that experience rich? So it's it's not so much, and especially now in the age of AI, not so much just unlocking the content, uh integrating APIs and the technical stuff, it is that layer on top of that. Like, how do you create peace of mind on something that people are unfamiliar with?

SPEAKER_10 2:43:18

Well, let's talk about AI for a moment because obviously that has to be something that the executive team, the investors are asking how you're utilizing AI, customer expectations are increasing. So, as the chief product officer, how are you looking to incorporate AI? What are some of the use cases already? And I'm not talking about the hype of AI, I'm talking about like the real valuable use cases that you're seeing and how you're incorporating that technology.

SPEAKER_15 2:43:40

Yeah, so for us, it there's there's a few few sides to it, right? Like there's obviously the the efficiency side uh of AI that just allows us to do more. Like we can move faster, we can do better by using AI for especially, of course, on the engineering side, uh, internal tooling, and and it just allows us to do more and do better. Um, it also obviously creates a whole different context for intermediaries, and ultimately we are an intermediary, where again unlocking the content becomes commoditized because we have uh 250 carriers integrated, and that will become that took years, then it would now it takes months, and over over time it hopefully takes weeks. So we need to move up as an intermediary into that value chain. So we are unlocking new tools for our um B2B agents and ultimately also for our B2C clients of how do we create journeys, how do we mix different providers into one single journey, and that's that's where the AI capabilities actually become very interesting, so that we can not get distracted anymore by the boring stuff, just integrating data and and um making data readable, but actually these layers on top of it. So I'm really excited, but there's a big but at the moment because we don't know where it's heading, right? So, from a product point of view, we are a lot more in a phase where intuition, product sense, uh customer feeling is much more important than pure reading the data because the world changes in two months' time, uh, technology changes in two months' time. So, product craft, I think, and and I hope, of course, um yeah, working in product, I I need to say this, but I think product management and and product sense, product understanding only will get more and more important uh because uh we live in an age of uncertainty, macroeconomics, everything happening around us, but also because of the age of AI, um it's it really comes down to having a good product sense.

SPEAKER_10 2:45:31

It's really interesting to get your take on AI because that's always one of the topics that comes out not only in our podcast, but in an event like this. And I hear a lot of people say every session was about AI. And so I'm sure you've heard other utilizations of AI over the course of uh the last couple of days. I was also keen to get your take on, you know, given this is your first time at a focus right conference, I'd love to get your perspective. You know, we're having this conversation on day two. We got a chance to speak together yesterday. But what are some have been your observations and insights from being here at the conference?

SPEAKER_15 2:46:02

Um it's been fairly reassuring uh because I think we all uh in this age of uncertainty and unclarity, um, I've heard multiple times people saying if you're not worried, if you're not anxious right now, um you're doing you're doing something wrong or you're you're hiding in in the corner. And I think that's reassuring in a way that everyone is living through this big change and this big transition. So distribution is changing, user behavior is changing, the markets are changing, and we need to act on that. And and so it's reassuring to connect to other companies in the field and and really uh understand what's what's happening. On the other hand, I was also saying to someone last night, I do think we will look back in maybe even five years, ten years, maybe two years' time, and think back of these conversations that we had and think how ridiculous it was, how we talked about uh AI, how we talked about some of these trends that are happening, because it's it's it's like the start of the internet, right? Like you were talking um uh and dreaming about how the world could look, and and everything will change in in a couple of months' time. So, I also think um, in a way, we are we are the people in the industry, right? And many of us uh have been in this industry for very long, and there will be there are things happening right now that are completely under our radar and that we will be completely blown away by, and and that's gonna be personally very fun. Um, probably if you're um an investor shareholder, it's it's probably less uh less fun. But as on a as a personal person, I really enjoy this phase of uncertainty, uh craziness, uh, and and new things happening every day.

SPEAKER_10 2:47:34

Well, it's true. The number of people I've spoken to, even a few industry players that have come back into travel with the advancement of AI. There was a gentleman I was speaking to at dinner the first night that uh had retired at 40 and he's been retired for 10 years, and now with AI, he's come back and started a new travel AI company. And the overall enthusiasm for technology, you know, we haven't seen this since the dot-com era, that's for sure. And so um the fact you know that your role working for a large uh travel brand to utilize this technology, yes, and for sure, it's changing. We did our first AI summit in 24, second one in 25, and the theme for this year in 26 and October is beyond AI. How do we look at how it's just incorporated into the experience? And what is the human role? And so that's quite a question that I've been keen to ask you. I've asked uh two people on this podcast about where humans are still relevant in the age of AI. And I'd love to get your take on that.

SPEAKER_15 2:48:31

Well, again, it's it's predicting a future that we don't know, but I think a lot of, and that's also something to your previous questions a lot of the conversations haven't actually changed. So when you talk to people and some of the challenges that the industry is dealing with, they are still the same and they will remain the same, and AI is not suddenly gonna solve it, right? And I think travel is a human experience. I do hope that this will elevate the human experience, unlock um getting access to personal opinions, more curated journeys, and and and real tailored experiences that AI can unlock as an enabler. The worry that I have sometimes is that you there are two scenarios that because of um democratizing technology, everyone has access, and it's a bit at the start of the internet, like everyone can be an entrepreneur and everyone can be part of the game. On the other hand, data, first-party data is the absolute key in success. So there is a scenario where it's only gonna be more consolidated, a smaller market where only a few big players remain. And I do hope that that's not necessarily the case, and that a new innovation will actually unlock some of those uh opportunities for um smaller entrepreneurs, smaller companies to to really drive uh drive innovation as well. But the human experience, I don't think that's that that's going to change. We what we can do now is be human on on scale, and and actually you can connect with people that are very much like you or or enjoy the similar experience like you on the other side of the world. And and I think information availability and unlocking information should be make that easier. And and human experiences are still um uh are still the key, I think, in travel, of course.

SPEAKER_10 2:50:12

Yeah, and I I that that's something I'm very uh optimistic about is the fact that it does come back to human connection and the and why we travel, and we don't travel for technology. Tech technology can make travel experience much more efficient, and uh that whole idea of like seamless and take out friction, all things that will actually enhance the traveler experience. But at the end of the day, humans will still they will get on planes, they will, they will, um, and they are keen to see all these amazing places around the world. And a big part of that is the cultural and human connection. So that is the beauty of getting on a train in Europe, and it's the people that you meet on the train and the people that you meet at your hotel, and and so I I'm very excited for the future of the travel industry in the face of AI, and a lot of people have been on our podcast say that it's you know the best thing that's ever happened to travel industries, and it's gonna be interesting to see how it plays out. If if you were you know looking forward to focus right next year in London, um, what do you think from the conversations you've heard here, what do you think is one of the themes that will likely carry over uh to next year? Clearly, AI, agentic AI will be one of them, but what are some of the things you think we'll be talking about a year from now?

SPEAKER_15 2:51:24

Yes, but I do hope that the AI conversation has matured in a sense of um now the questions have been, but how do you apply agentic? What's the the the effect gonna be of agentic AI? And I think those questions are are fairly silly because it's that's that's a component of a technology that enables something and it can yeah, it can run processes fairly independently, that's great, but we need to start asking those, and I hope that next year there's there's more maturity in in AI that we will have we will see real proof and not get beyond all the confusion and already see starting, seeing proof of um what it actually can enable us to do and how it actually can then enrich these uh these travel experiences because that's that's ultimately what we're here for, and it's exciting to see that everyone is still in that confused phase. But obviously, you see that now we get to an adoption where it's not about because that was last year and maybe the year before, where people were like, You use AI already in your company, how do you use it? And now it's everyone in some shape or form uses it. If not, they're they're very worried, and now it's around real applications, real useful proof points that we can actually build travel experiences for our users.

SPEAKER_10 2:52:36

That's fantastic. Well, obviously, I think uh Bjorn has done a great job bringing you into the company and building out his executive team, and so it's fascinating we have this conversation with you and get your take. Uh, I'm keen to make sure our listeners can also connect with you if they have questions and obviously uh learn more about Rail Re Rail Europe. Uh so on that note, Seb, what would be the best ways for people to reach out and connect with you and and uh and also the Rail Europe team?

SPEAKER_15 2:52:58

Yeah, so definitely uh we always want to get closer to our users, we always want to understand because that's in the end uh what product is still about is really understanding. And AI cannot solve that. How users experience your product, what users like, what users don't like. So uh please connect with me on LinkedIn and always happy to talk about what is happening in the travel industry in real and uh just connect on uh on what's going on. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_10 2:53:20

Seba is great to meet you. Good luck with the rest of the conference, and I look forward to keeping in touch. It's been a real pleasure, Dan.

Mindtrip Expands Agentic Booking

SPEAKER_10 2:53:27

Our next guest is the CEO and co-founder of one of the hottest global AI startups. He started out of San Francisco. Uh him and the team are it's been extraordinary for us to work with at Travel Trends. And I'm of course speaking about Andy Moss from Mind Trip. And I'm delighted that he is here in Europe. We've connected at many other conferences, and uh he's been on our podcast before, but this is his first time here at the European conference for Focus Right. And I'm delighted to have this opportunity to sit down with him. Andy, great to have you on Travel Trends again.

SPEAKER_19 2:54:00

It's great to be here. And uh I am British originally. I have lived in California for over 30 years, so uh that's uh but but yeah, Europe is coming home for me.

SPEAKER_10 2:54:07

It was the funniest thing. So we had dinner together last night uh with our friend uh Mauricio Preto, who runs the Travel Tech Essentialist, my favorite uh newsletter in the travel industry. I definitely encourage anyone to uh subscribe to that. And Andy uh joined us for dinner as well, and one of the things that really made uh the entire table laugh is that everyone was trying to place his accent, and he's from Southampton in England. I'm from Portsmouth, very close. Um, he still has uh the remnants of his lovely English accent, but he's been living in San Francisco for 30 years, and he said um basically that kind of that combination gives you an Australian accent because everyone was convinced you're Australian. And uh some people have commented you sound like Elon Musk, you sound like is it you're South African, but no, you're English American.

SPEAKER_19 2:54:49

I'm I I'm also not doing quite as well as Elon is this week.

SPEAKER_10 2:54:53

But you have it's funny, and that's there's the self-deprecating humor. Even when Andy introduced himself last night, I was telling the people afterwards this is a guy that's had a serial entrepreneur who's had major success, uh uh a few big exits, like you, and then you've decided to get into the travel industry, and I'm delighted that you did because you took this incredible founding team that you've worked with, Michelle, who you know I have the greatest affinity for, your CMO. Um, but you took your team and brought them over to travel. So let's give everyone a bit of background on Mind Trip. Tell us a little bit about the company, why you created it, and what you guys do.

SPEAKER_19 2:55:29

Sure. So uh the company is almost exactly three years old. Uh the product's been in market uh about two years now. Uh and you know, we're a team that's worked together not just uh on a previous company, but across four or five different startups over the last 20 years in different combinations. But uh, I mean we really wanted to you know do something in AI. Uh to be honest, we started with AI instead of travel. Uh and this was actually before Chat GPT uh actually hit. We were brainstorming what we were gonna do in AI, and um, you know. When ChatGP did arrive, we were in the middle of that process and it was very easy to lock in on travel as the best use case for AI. If you think about other industries, it's very quick to get into a checkout experience or other things. Travel is just very multifaceted and pretty complicated, and it's perfect for the AI use case.

SPEAKER_10 2:56:19

Well, one of the things that's really interesting, and I'll um there's there's so much to this story, uh, but I will just add uh a quick point here because um this is where Andy is so um, if anything, like I was I'm obviously a huge fan of Mind Trip. Clearly, you are, you've invested in it, you've built it, and you've you know you're fully vested in this this venture. Um but as they built out this trip planner, which you know, Rod Cuthbert, who's here at Viator, and you had a privilege to meet him, he was always the one, he was always the Simon Cowell of the judging. When anyone came up with a travel planning tool, you would instantly say, No, not investing in it. There's a graveyard of travel planning tools. But what's amazing about the Mind Trip story is it started as a trip planning tool, still is, but you guys expanded, you know, you started as B2C, you expanded to B2B, started working with all of these destination marketing organizations, and we did a three-part series with Mind Trip that I definitely encourage our listeners to check out because you can see how valuable the technology is that they've created for DMOs. So many of them, more than 100, is it right, Andy? Across the US and the Caribbean, and now you're expanding to Europe, have utilized their technology and added these widgets to their website to help people plan travels to these different regions. But then now you guys have taken a step forward and actually introduced agenc booking into the platform. And so this is a really exciting for uh time for Mind Trip. I know you guys have continued to scale uh investors and and and your profile in the industry has continued to raise. So tell us a little bit about where you guys are today.

SPEAKER_19 2:57:44

Yeah, so I mean, first, uh, you know, a couple of things you sort of mentioned. Uh I mean, I think for us the vision was always how do you build a personal travel assistant? And you know when we started to get into travel, you know, people actually advised us to focus on you know one niche and you know, not sort of go broad. But our philosophy from the beginning was you need all the touch points that you have with a traveler. You know, if you had a really good travel agent or an executive assistant that was helping you, you'd expect them to help you from everything from inspiration and planning through to booking, um, you know, through to you know what is actually happening when you're on the trip as well. So, you know, the idea of a connected trip with the consumer at the center and everything you're really supporting you from a personal assistant perspective, that really has been the vision from the beginning, and you know, that's where we've continued. Uh, it just turns out that that um opportunity is also very helpful for uh B2B partners as well. Uh and we started our uh destination DMO business uh just over a year ago. Um and again, you know, I describe it as more than a widget. Um it's a pretty you know deeply embedded solution um you know that a DMO can actually activate very quickly on their site that gives them full conversational AI, it gives them visibility to the types of chats that um your consumers are asking for. That is extremely helpful for uh understanding GEO as well, which is on everybody's minds. Uh so you know, those are the sort you know two uh two sort of uh follow-ons to you know just the description of what we do.

SPEAKER_10 2:59:18

Yeah, I actually that's a really important point you mentioned about GEO. The um opportunity to work with Mind Trip like these DMOs have with all of their content. Like uh a good example is Visit California. There's like more than two million pieces of content and the way that they now can organize it and structure it a way that they can get indexed properly. So you're not only offering them a tool, you're also offering them kind of a gateway to make sure they're relevant as uh travelers shift their uh search patterns from traditional Google search that you've obviously known for many years in that customer journey, to uh using AI planning tools and specifically Mind Trip. And so, you know, as we're here at a Focus Right conference, um, one of the keen things I'm keen to get your take on is you know what brings you here and and some of the benefits. One thing I just wanted to highlight before is that, and this is where when I'm very emphatic about uh Mind Trip, the business and the potential is you know you just look at Mike Coletta's presentation around trip planning that he shared at the conference in New York earlier this year. And I was talking to him about it here, which in over the last three quarters, AI planning uh has gone from 30% to 40% to 56%, um, and now it's exceeding how many people are using Google search. Um, and there's a real opportunity now to move into agentic booking um that hasn't uh shown up in the numbers yet, but I know that's where you're focusing. But you've got so many opportunities to grow this business on the B2B side with DMOs, and then obviously, you know, you guys could certainly be the ones that when the dam breaks on agentic bookings. Um so tell us a little bit about you know, as I set the stage there, Andy, what brings you to Focus Right Europe?

SPEAKER_19 3:00:53

Yeah, so that there's two key points to sort of follow up on there. I think the first one is why am I in Europe? The main reason I'm in Europe is um we're actually uh launching UR destination business with our first European uh DMO partners. So you know, we're open for business in Europe. We have you know the data center and your first couple of customers uh you know uh established. You know, we're working with Madeira and the Norway travel custom uh cluster um as the first two, uh, but many more to come. So I've been meeting your DMOs, I've been presenting at conferences, you know, we're just starting to hire the team in Europe. Um so you know that's the sort of first one. Uh the sort of second thing you were you're leaning into was the agentic side of things. Um, you know, less why I'm in Europe, but you know, we are indeed going super deep on everything agentic. Uh we launched a major partnership and product with Sabre and PayPal uh about six weeks ago uh that coincided with us launching Mindtrip.ai flights, uh so Mindtrip flights. Uh and that I think is the the sort of most fully end-to-end example of somebody being able to use your mind trip and an LLM to you know really understand pretty complex flight um needs uh and then go all the way from that all the way through your pricing and availability through to checkout and actually booking the trip. So um you'll go go check out mind trip flights. We have mind trip stays coming really soon, which is a very similar product for hotels.

SPEAKER_10 3:02:22

Yeah, it's fantastic. And that's where you say like there's a there's the two paths there, but then there's actually there's two reasons you're actually here, I should highlight as well, because your wife is here and your daughter's here, and you guys have been traveling around Spain. And I was so happy for you because ultimately this is one of the things that I think for, and I'm highlighting this because for anyone that's working in this industry and loves travel, it always has to be the reminder of why we do what we do and why we work in this industry. And so when we were en route to dinner last night, I was asking Andy all about his travels around Spain. You were telling me all the highlights about uh the Alhambra and how uh Sevilla was such a big highlight, and you've just been in Valencia. Um uh tell everyone uh a little bit, share a couple of highlights from your trip because again, uh, this is why this is why we do what we do.

SPEAKER_19 3:03:05

Yeah, I know totally. Um, so I mean this was just a great opportunity with these two conferences. Um, and my daughter has just literally uh uh graduated from college. Um, you know, uh she actually went to the University of Hawaii, lucky girl, so uh she's gonna have to adjust from not being going to the beach every day. But uh um you know, so yes, my wife and uh my daughter and her boyfriend. Um he hasn't been to much of Europe, so he's sort of seeing Paris for the first time, you know, he's seeing Spain for the first time. Um but yeah, I mean just uh you know, we love doing road trips. Um what we sort of find is you know, unless you actually sort of get in a car and drive across the country, you just miss so much, right? So you fly into a city and you fly out again, you get a certain experience. But what we really love doing is sort of going to somewhere and then spending two or three days in a place, you know, seeing some of the tourism stuff, maybe just relaxing by the pool and then getting in the car and you know driving for three or four hours to the the next place or whatever. So yeah, so we started in Paris, then you know, Seville, um Granada, Madrid, you know, decided we needed some beach time, so uh down to the coast and then uh uh finishing off in Barcelona.

SPEAKER_10 3:04:09

That's awesome. I'm so glad you did. I know it's been a while since you've taken a trip of this duration, and so um, and obviously wonderful to get that family time. And what was interesting is that on the very first night I arrived on the Monday and went to a dinner function, and uh I was speaking to uh a new industry uh uh colleague, and I was telling him, Oh, you need to meet Andy, and he's like, You and you need to know about mine trip. And he was like, You're the fourth person that's told me that today. And so it's gotta be great for you after having a bit of a bit of downtime and then coming to a conference like this, um, because you're a known entity now. I mean, I remember two years ago when you guys were at these conferences or going to a virtuoso conference or a rival, and Christian Watts obviously is a good friend, Gillad as well. Um, and so as you've been uh invited into all these different aspects of the industry, now all of a sudden, you know, people are recognizing Mind Trip is where the industry is headed. You guys are you know very much ahead of the curve. And so all of a sudden, people are now finding you.

SPEAKER_19 3:05:04

Yeah, no, that's totally the case. I mean, we're definitely um I guess we're three years into travel now, but I mean, every startup we've done, we've always uh started in an industry that we actually uh were outsiders on and then became insiders rapidly over time.

SPEAKER_11 3:05:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_19 3:05:18

Um and you know, certain certainly helpful uh uh and and nice when you get to these conferences now to have you know a lot of uh friendly faces that you know from from prior ones and you know, even even help you get to your good dinner reservations uh in the evening.

SPEAKER_10 3:05:31

Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Um tell us a little bit about what's ahead for Mind Trip and specifically for Europe. I know you're gonna be recruiting uh and adding team members. And so yeah, tell us a little bit about what's ahead for the business, not just in terms of technology, but in terms of growing the team.

SPEAKER_19 3:05:46

Yeah, so um so with Europe it's two things. I mean, one is just really uh you know working with um your destinations locally. Uh so you know, we're hiring a GM. Uh we'll be starting very soon. But I think it also needs uh your consultants in each market that understand the different markets. So you're actually having come from the UK originally, I have a different appreciation of Europe than many Americans do. That you know, there's lots of micro markets and you know you need to know how to um you know sort of have someone inside the tent in each of you know those individual markets, you can't just do it all sort of centrally or whatever. So you're partly it's uh you know any destinations that are interested in in working with us, we'd love to talk to. And then the second thing is we're also taking the opportunity, you know, we've already always had you know multi-language and and whatever for our DMO partners, but we're now pushing that out across the whole of our uh consumer side as well. So you know, we'll be supporting you know in the next couple of weeks 10 languages and you know, currency conversions and you know, all the right date formats and uh you know units and all those kind of things. So um you know that'll make it a lot more accessible for your people who aren't uh coming from the US.

SPEAKER_10 3:06:55

Fantastic. Yeah, no, it's such an exciting time as you continue to grow this platform, grow the team, expand globally. So obviously the focus now is on Europe. I have to assume that in um the next uh uh two years it's gonna include Asia as well.

SPEAKER_19 3:07:10

Yep, we already have some uh early uh uh opportunities there. So yeah, that'll that'll be coming very quickly.

SPEAKER_10 3:07:15

Yeah, and and for any tourism boards that are listening to this, I mean, obviously you can have a look at that series, but there's um uh there's no reason why a tourism board and I was at the Visit California conference. That was actually one of the most telling. I was at the Visit California conference and did a panel and had a few different uh tourism boards, all of which were using Mind Trip, like uh Monterey, uh Anaheim, and the benefits they're seeing from the platform and the better understanding of their customers. You can see why you've quickly gotten to 100 plus. And when you think about the global scale, I'm you know, I'm bullish for Mind Trip just in that category. And then you think about all the different verticals and sectors, and then as you mentioned, flights and hotels. Um, so obviously I'm encouraging all of our listeners to watch this space very closely. We'll have the Mind Trip team back um at our summit later this year. We'll have Michelle speaking. Um, if people want to follow your journey and be able to make sure that they can connect with you, Andy, directly, but also follow where the team is going to be. Um I know you've got Rudy out there at conferences as well. Like I say, um, what would be the best ways for people to follow the journey and to connect with you?

SPEAKER_19 3:08:24

I mean, you know, number one is uh try the product. Uh you'll uh be blown away how uh how complete it is. Um so you know, firstly do that uh for contacting us. Um you know, we're still a startup, we're still you know, sort of 40-ish people, uh, which usually means our first name and mindtroop.ai works really well for email. Um so uh you know you could reach me uh that way or most of the other sort of senior team members as well. We're at a lot of the conferences. Uh we sort of spread it out between us, but uh um you know, look for us uh when we're there as well. Um we'd love to love to connect.

SPEAKER_10 3:08:58

Well, actually, I road test this and I had a call with Michelle a few uh a few weeks ago, and I was uh preparing for this trip to Scotland, and I had actually used Claude and ChatGPT in Mind Trip, and I had put them into different uh in a Google Doc and shared them with my mom and my brother for this trip. And then we printed them off and went through them. And overwhelmingly, it's interesting because when I printed them off and we went through them, people didn't know uh which platform it was. Um and overwhelmingly, the the mind trip was like the recommendations, the routing, the suggestions, the like the it was so much more robust than any of the other generic platforms. So for any of the listeners out there that are currently just using um another platform for travel planning, try Mind Trip.

SPEAKER_19 3:09:38

So maybe maybe we need to introduce the uh the the Coke Pepsi uh blind taste test for the mind trip versus the LLM.

SPEAKER_10 3:09:44

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you definitely do. It's um because it it is purpose built for travel, and this is one of the things in our industry. Is it feature complete? Is it like fit for purpose? And the answer is it absolutely is. So those challenges that people are having using other platforms to plan their trip is not the case with Mind Trip, which is again why I think once people actually get that that itinerary or have those options, then they want to book that flight or book that hotel. So um, Andy, obviously it's always great to see you. I always enjoy uh your company, the conversations. I think so highly of you and the team, and obviously wonderful to see you having great success here at Focus Right Europe. I wish you continued success, and I look forward to seeing you again soon.

SPEAKER_19 3:10:22

Perfect. And uh thanks for all you do as well. Uh, you're a really uh strong advocate for the whole industry.

SPEAKER_10 3:10:30

Our next guest is a great

Tour Activity Balance And Overtourism

SPEAKER_10 3:10:32

friend of mine. I always look forward to uh sitting down and catching up with her at a conference like this. It is Charlotte Lamp Davies. She's the founder of A Bright Approach. She works with the Focus Right team. She's done sessions here at the event. She works with a lot of different uh companies in the travel industry. I have a great respect and admiration for her. She's kindly brought me into ITB over the last couple of years. So, Charlotte, welcome back to Travel Trends. Great to have you with us.

SPEAKER_17 3:10:54

It's absolutely wonderful to be back and great to see you here in Barcelona one more time.

SPEAKER_10 3:10:59

Yeah, likewise. I mean, you were such a a key part of this event. Tell us a little bit about what brought you back this year, because I know you're so involved in various sessions, and specifically, I'm keen to know about Monday's start to the conference with the Middle East research. So tell us, yeah, what brought you back and what what have you been focused on the last few days?

SPEAKER_17 3:11:18

Yeah, as as you know, I am uh I am a great fan of the focus ride event being the European or the or the one in the States. Uh I I have my little pin, uh, which means that I have done more than 20 Focus Ride events now over the course of some whatever 18 years, which is uh which which really shows my love for for the company and for for for the event more importantly. Yes, uh Monday was a fabulous bonus, um, I must say, because we sadly didn't get to do web and travel Middle East back in May due to the terrible circumstances of the war kicking off back then. But we managed to move it to this event, and obviously the lovely Suhoon was driving it as always. And I think for me this is where I was mostly in the conference hall on Monday rather than networking because I really wanted to try and get my finger on the pulse in terms of what is coming, what is happening in the region, what are um what are our friends doing in the region to to mitigate uh all the risk. But also very importantly, there was some fabulous um data-based presentations uh delivered by Oxford Economics, and uh the very best one on the day, to my mind, was actually delivered by uh Gemma Timmins uh from OAG. Phenomenal lady, really, really manages to bring uh data to life, which is a skill uh in its own right. So that was a super bonus for me.

SPEAKER_10 3:12:47

Fantastic. We kicked off this episode with Sue Hun, which was always perfect timing for our listeners to learn more about web and travel and her amazing role in the industry because she's another one of those legendary figures uh like yourself that people gravitate to and is incredibly knowledgeable and so well connected. And it was fantastic that you guys had the opportunity to go ahead with that conference. I know Pete was so excited that it was still gonna go ahead here, and I heard some fantastic feedback, including from our common friend Stuart Grife. And Stuart was taking pictures of the data, and I've interviewed him on this podcast as well to share some of the highlights. What were some of the other big takeaways from uh for our listeners that didn't have the privilege to be there about what the state of travel is in the Middle East? And I know we can't predict the political situation because it keeps changing. It looks like it's getting more uh optimistic, but uh what is the kind of the long-term view? I think Stuart was saying it's about 18 months if the war does subside for the business to come back in that region. Uh, what were some of the other interesting takeaways from uh from Monday?

SPEAKER_17 3:13:45

Well, I mean we we we know that the aftermath of anything like that just takes time for things to stabilize, but overwhelmingly everybody that was in the room and that all um work with with uh within the region and with clients from the region were overwhelmingly positive, either about how uh business as usual is happening to a great extent in parts of the region, and also how fast that everybody believes that things are gonna be right back where it was once we start to uh sort of see a more stable situation out there. So, overall, maybe maybe a little bit surprising that it was as positive as it was. Well, we had just had the news that the peace talks were going in the right direction as well on Monday. So, and this is a little bit up and down. I'm I'm you know, geopolitically, I try to keep my finger on the pulse a little bit, but I'm no expert. So we don't know from one day to the next what it's gonna look like. But over overall, I think there is so much focus and there's been so much attention on the Middle East that people are staying very optimistic about its recovery as soon as we get to that stage. So maybe that's the biggest takeaway.

SPEAKER_10 3:14:51

Yeah, and the one thing also that Suhoon had mentioned that I'm sure uh is a trend that you're paying attention to as well is the increase in regional travel. So we've seen in the US market a massive increase in domestic travel this year, which again there's winners and losers whenever these travel shifts happen. So international travelers that uh international uh destinations rely on American travelers uh have been challenged this year, and same with Australia. Um but domestic has really taken off because many Americans are staying home 250th anniversary. But the but the part that really stood out for what Suhoon shared is that when people tr uh still continue to travel within their region. I shared the example with South America because we've seen uh a real increase of people within South America traveling to other countries in South America. So being more reliant on their regional neighbors, and I guess that's also what you're uh they're seeing in the Middle East as well. That if you don't have the international travelers, well Saudi Arabia is still busy with regional countries traveling to Saudi Arabia because all these amazing resorts that they've built. So it's it's just interesting how these pat travel patterns shift and change.

SPEAKER_17 3:15:51

Yeah, I mean I I I am I I wouldn't call myself a Middle Eastern expert, that's for sure. Uh wouldn't necessarily call myself an expert at all. But what I but what I what what I do know and what I think has been a little bit of a misconception is that I mean the Middle East is building out its tourism offering first and foremost for the locals. And you know, eventually one day the internationals will be a benefit. But I I and I'm not sure that that's what they would say themselves, but you know, they're not expecting the whole world to descend on the Middle East just because they build out they're building these resorts at the moment. They are relying on the locals first and foremost, and they will be there.

SPEAKER_10 3:16:31

Yeah. No, that's interesting. Well, another area that you actually are an expert on for sure is on the tours and activities side. Um, not only in your role at ITB, but here at Focus Right. And I wanted to switch on to that next. Uh talk us through the session that you did yesterday on tours and activities. I'd love to hear, because I didn't have the opportunity to present live. I always um take the opportunity whenever you are on stage, but uh, given I was tied up with recordings, I didn't have that privilege. Tell us a little bit about the session, who was a part of it, and what some of the takeaways were.

SPEAKER_17 3:16:59

Well, you were missed. You know, I was looking around. Where where is he? He's always here for this round table. No, it's great. I've been uh moderating the the tourist and activities roundtable for for a number of years for Focus Ride, and and it's it's close to my heart. I I I love travel, but I'm also, should we say, equally a little bit concerned about how we travel and and maybe sometimes even the the lack of education uh i i in terms of how we prepare people to travel and to travel well and to be respectful when they're in location, uh mixing with the locals. And and you know, it's not trouble-free. Uh, you know, it's a wonderful sector, the tourism activities, the most loved or whatever it is, uh, the best part of travel, as Douglas says. As Douglas says, Douglas uh Quimby, yeah, the best part of travel. Well, I wouldn't disagree with that, but but but we I think what the round table uh was very much about yesterday was very much talking about how how do we balance things now? I mean, how do we really seriously work on getting the balance right so we can keep our locals happy. And we can still invite you know the travelers and the tourists into all of the the the best places in travel, shall we say, but also maybe a little bit further afield.

SPEAKER_10 3:18:09

Yeah, and um I know those sessions are always particularly valuable. I like the round tables given the fact that people get to really interact and ask questions. Um Charlie, the other thing I'd love to get your take on is you know, as we're having this conversation towards the uh the middle of day two, and this conference is two days plus the um we're it's it's kind of midday Wednesday, I should say, and you're uh two and a half days into the conference. I'd love to hear any other takeaways and insights from the other sessions because I haven't had the privilege of attending a number of them, and I know you make the effort because you're not only great uh with the networking, but you're also great uh at being at the sessions and learning and being able to apply that knowledge. And I think you're probably most similar to me in that regard because it's not just about the networking, it really is about the knowledge sharing, and you want to be in the sessions to be able to see. So I'd love if you wouldn't mind sharing, if there's been some interesting other highlights from Focus Right Europe this year.

SPEAKER_17 3:19:04

I mean, we kicked off with Center Stage yesterday after we had the startup competition, the global startup competition, which is always great. I I I love that. I just love to see uh who's doing what and who's thinking differently and who's coming in from outside of travel, into travel, to show us what's the next big, you know, the next best tool is going to be in order for us to navigate the travel landscape. So I enjoyed that very much yesterday. Again, there was a fantastic uh opening presentation by uh Philip Philippov, uh CEO of OAG. I I happen to be um uh a great fan of Philip, and uh ever since I knew him when he was with Skyscanner, uh I have I have followed him quite closely. Uh he says it as he sees it, and and he's a great presenter. So it was just very, very interesting for him, you know, again to use the data that they have in order to sort of kind of come with a f come up with a few predictions, and I like that. And then, like you, I mean, I struggle with both networking and jumping in and out of the sessions, but today I'm looking uh very much looking out for the big AI uh session this afternoon, uh just because we need to know, we need to try to understand what's going on.

SPEAKER_10 3:20:09

For sure, for sure. And I know you're very active across the industry and have a number of different clients that you work with. I'd love for you just to share what your views are in terms of the trends you're paying attention to, Charlotte. So outside of focus right and us being here uh in Europe, obviously one of the things you're based in London. This conference is moving to London next year, as you well know. Um, what are some of the things you're paying attention to that our audience uh should also uh be aware of?

SPEAKER_17 3:20:34

Well, I think it's probably been said before, but or yeah, I'm sure it's been said before that everybody is still working out how how best to implement AI and where to implement it. It is still very much part of the bigger conversation. Most conferences open by opens up, you know, with AI in the first sentence. So it is still something that we are that we're very, very focused on on getting right. A number of my uh technology company clients are implementing it or have built their technology on AI or with AI by their sides. So, you know, I'm very close to it in that regard, and I see how again they are selling their services and their tools into the travel industry, and the feedback from that is very much that we are beginning to see the results in certain areas and other things are still being tried and tested. So it it is it is not that interesting at the moment what I what I find to be new. I still think it's the same thing that I said six months ago.

SPEAKER_10 3:21:30

And given that you are traveling all the time, working with different clients at conferences, tell us what the next six months looks like for you. I know we'll see each other throughout the year, and we'll be together again in Focus Right USA in in November in Florida, which is awesome. I'm so looking forward to getting back to the diplomat. Um but tell us what you have planned for the next six months, for the rest of 2026.

SPEAKER_17 3:21:51

Well, I'm definitely hoping to have a holiday over the summer.

SPEAKER_10 3:21:55

You deserve one. If anyone does, it's you, Charlie.

SPEAKER_17 3:21:57

It's been a hectic six months, and of course, June has been back to back to back to back to back with travel conferences. I mean, it's uh it's the new crazy season, that's for sure. Uh I'm looking forward to the travel tech show next week and the business travel show, of course, in London. I'm not quite done yet. Uh, and also we've got the Travolution Connects event next week. Um, so again, three events back to back. Uh we just about leave here before the next ones kick off. Then it's a little bit more quiet for me over the summer, maybe to contemplate how to uh to get into to Q2 and uh and then we get into Q3 before we know it. There's uh I do a number of German events as well for my DAC German-based speaking clients as well. So I'm looking forward to FVW Congress in Leipzig again this year. So there's a couple of little more niche conferences that I attend as well.

SPEAKER_10 3:22:45

Yeah, well, one of the things that I mentioned uh when I was speaking to Stuart about you, so we were speaking about your ears might have burning. It's just what a great advocate you both are for diversity in our industry and obviously female leadership and yourself. One of the things I've mentioned on our podcast before, but for anyone who's just getting to know Charlotte, one of the things she highlighted to me was actually mentoring young men to help them actually better understand to be uh inclusive leaders in the workplace. And and so, you know, you um a bright approach, you know, you're such a you're a bright light, a positive energy. I always look forward to catching up with you. And I know you work with a number of different travel companies as an advisor who are very lucky to work with you. And on that note, I know how busy you are. I do want to make sure that any of our listeners who are just coming to learn more about uh Charlotte Lamp Davies and a bright approach, uh, tell everyone how they can connect with you or potentially collaborate with you if they were so lucky.

SPEAKER_17 3:23:40

Well, I'm I'm always open to uh to new conversations. Always, always. I I love it. I think I think part of um I think part of the biggest joy for me uh running the the management company is is is my love of of connecting with people and connecting people with people. So uh it's it's an easy thing to do, and uh when you're at an event like this, you know, it it's it's double easy because everybody is is in the room. So if anybody fancies the chat, they can find me uh on LinkedIn, it's probably the easiest. Uh or look for a bright approach. Uh you can find me via the the the website there as well. Um and yeah, I look forward to seeing you at the next event very soon.

SPEAKER_10 3:24:20

Yeah, thank you so much, Charlotte. I really value our our friendship, and I always enjoy collaborating with you in any opportunity to be on stage and be at conferences, and like, yeah, you're just such a um a wonderful person to know. So thank you for making the time for this. I'm glad we were able to sit down and get this little brief moment together. Uh, good luck with the rest of the conference, and I will see you again for sure uh again very soon.

SPEAKER_17 3:24:42

I can't thank you enough. Thank you for having me.

Travel Payments Strategy With WEX

SPEAKER_10 3:24:46

Our next guest here live in Barcelona at the Focus Right conference is Carolina Castillo, and she is the general manager for the European and Middle East and Africa for travel payments. And she's based in London, but here together with us at the conference today. Carolina, great to meet you. Thanks for joining us on Travel Trends.

SPEAKER_04 3:25:05

Dan, thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_10 3:25:07

I would like to start by giving everyone a bit of an overview of WEX. So the website, of course, for our listeners is Wexinc.com. Some of our listeners may be familiar with WEX, but for those of the listeners who aren't, would you mind just giving us an overview of the company?

SPEAKER_04 3:25:21

Absolutely. So WEX is a global business and we have three main divisions benefits, mainly running in the US. We also have our mobility business, which includes fleet cards and EV. And then, of course, we have the travel uh space and global corporate payments, where is where I sit supporting directly travel uh companies.

SPEAKER_10 3:25:42

Fantastic. And so a bit of background on WEX, because when I was having a look at the website in anticipation of our conversation, all the cards that you have, like fuel cards, employee benefits, I mean this is WEX is a big business. Um, how did you guys get into travel?

SPEAKER_04 3:25:56

That's a very interesting question. I think it just came naturally uh issuing virtual cards, and virtual cards are some very important problem, right? It it helps about the reconciliation and automation. So it helps travel agents that have become the merchant of record to scale up their operations. And at the same time, it protects them from fraud, uh, it protects them from risk of failure from the suppliers, such as airlines or potentially hotels. So it just came as a natural evolution of being a payment-centric company.

SPEAKER_10 3:26:27

Fantastic. And so and your role, obviously, general manager for one of the key regions globally. Tell us a little bit more about your background, how you got into this space, and specifically about your role at Wax.

SPEAKER_04 3:26:39

I've been in payments uh most of my career, and I was delighted when I joined Wax because it's uh it's the intersection between payments and travel. And travel is, as we know, such a fun uh industry to work in. And what I love about being here is being able to bring all the payment innovation into the travel space, making sure that we can support our customers, not just with our product, with our platform, but with the advice we give them about trends and what's going on in the industry.

SPEAKER_10 3:27:08

Well, I know you spent nearly 12 years at American Express before as a vice president of commercial partnerships and innovation. So American Express is one of the more innovative financial services companies that I've ever had the chance to work with when you actually get behind the scenes and understand all the things that American Express is doing with the data, understanding customer profiles. We've done a lot of targeted mailing to customers who have American Express cards, but to understand their travel patterns. So that clearly has to be one of the values of um utilizing WEX is you get a lot of data on customers and how they're using virtual cards. Yes. Um tell us what would be some examples of partners that WEX works with?

SPEAKER_04 3:27:44

Uh in terms of our clients, uh, we work for with Booking.com, so one of the major uh travel agents in the world. We in fact work with eight out of the ten top travel agents, OTAs in in the world. So they are trusting us with their operations. And of course, they give us a lot of data. So we know where people are going, we know what are the trends, we know all the challenges, and we can anticipate those um those challenges for uh advice to our customers.

SPEAKER_10 3:28:10

Fantastic. And then specifically being here at Focus, right? Um I'm very keen to know what brought you to the event here this year. Clearly, it's not too far to travel, and actually, next year, for many of our listeners who just find out it's gonna be in London, so you won't have to travel too far.

SPEAKER_04 3:28:24

Yeah, well, that that has its pros and its cons, right? It's always nice to be here in uh in sunny Barcelona, but be delighted to be welcoming people in in London. So I think Focus uh right, it's a great event to connect with people. Um, connect not just with clients but with tech uh partners. Uh for me is uh continue to making sure people understand the evolution of travel payments, makes uh understand that without um strategy, a payment strategy, they don't have a growth strategy. So payments has become so central in terms of how people uh in the travel industry run their businesses that we have to be at the center of the C-suite the discussions.

SPEAKER_10 3:29:02

Yeah, and for me, I mean this was my uh second Focus Right Europe conference. One of the things I like about the size and scale of this conference is it's more manageable. I love the US conference, it's you know it's the it's the flagship. But this conference, you get top industry executives that are much more accessible. Um I know we're having this conversation towards the end of day one. What's your take so far on Focus Right Europe? And uh what's your take so far on Focus Right Europe?

SPEAKER_04 3:29:27

Yeah, I think it's um very similar to you. The the ability to be able to speak to top executives, have very engaging conversations, and it's not a massive space. We're all really in a relatively small space, and you can have lunch with somebody else, have a coffee in the morning with somebody uh else. So it just it just works.

SPEAKER_10 3:29:45

Yeah, yeah, no, I totally agree. And that's the um the sessions as well. Like I did a panel session earlier today. A lot of them are smaller, more um interactive sessions. Yes. So you get a chance to actually get involved as an attendee. Um as far as some of the things you else you have planned, is there how do you divide your time here between networking and sessions? Is it a combination of the two of those, like learning from other practitioners in the space? But I'm assuming there's got to be a lot of great networking opportunities for you guys as well.

SPEAKER_04 3:30:11

Yeah, it's how do you maximize your time? I do have enjoyed many of the sessions. I have I was just being in the startup once great ideas, uh uh great entrepreneurs thinking how they solve problems with for our industry. So that is absolutely fantastic. And then yeah, just the the the breaks, the launches to spend time to with people.

SPEAKER_10 3:30:30

That's great. And then getting back to some of the trends that are happening in the industry, I would love to know from your vantage point on the the payment side, what are some of the trends that you're seeing at WEX that obviously you're bringing to conversations here at the conference, but also some of the things you're paying attention to that our listeners might find interesting?

SPEAKER_04 3:30:48

Well, I think if you work in the travel industry, there's always something going on, right? So there is volatility, we know we have the Middle East a conflict. So how knowing that this is this might happen, is how do you make sure that you have the right strategy to help people mitigate the risk, percept their cash flow, and very importantly, percept the trust of their of their clients. So there's been a big question around what's happening now with the shock that we have in February when when the when the conflict started. And where we're seeing is yes, there has been a decrease, of course, of people going in and people from the region coming out, but uh we are seeing uh some other areas where that uh uh travelers are are choosing to go. So I think that is something that I have heard other people as well comment it and our clients say it. We see it in the data. Uh, but what is important is people to remember to be in prepare for the next crisis because there's always a crisis around the corner.

SPEAKER_10 3:31:46

That's so true about the travel industry, is we kind of go from crisis to crisis, and the reality is that travelers keep coming back. Travelers are incredibly resilient, as you know. It's interesting during the uh COVID, which is obviously part of how this podcast ultimately came about, one of the things that I was seeing across the travel industry was the need for virtual car payments because people were unsure who to trust. And you know, if you have a company that might fall over during the pandemic that's holding on to client uh funds, uh so all of a sudden virtual cards took on a new meaning. What is sort of in 2026, given the uncertainty, what are you seeing some of the trends in payment activity, whether it be from suppliers or for customers?

SPEAKER_04 3:32:26

So I think people want choice, and that comes from the consumer also to the travel agent. So one of the things that uh we have an advantage point if we are able to offer our clients either a prepaid solution or a credit solution or something that we have as a hybrid solution where they can do both with the same with the same product. So the ability to flex for one another and not be worried about if you're gonna have to have the cash flow is an advantage you're giving. So I think choice is very important, removing friction as well. And of course, we cannot stop, you know, we can not mention AI, right? And the sort of things that are gonna happen. For me, if I just may drill a little bit in on AI, I don't see necessarily that there's gonna be a huge change in the payment itself, but in the wrapper around how that payment takes place, the controls that happen for that uh payment to go safely. Is it coming with the right intent from the customer? Are the risk models from issuers uh being adjusted because now there's a car not present, there's not gonna be biometrics, there's not gonna be IP location. So there are so many things that that that are gonna be changing that the issuers have to start recalibrating that to make sure they don't have any much more uh false positives than necessary. And of course, accountability when it comes to things going wrong, but sometimes that happen, who is accountable for? And that's where regulators are gonna start looking and making sure the process is is watertight.

SPEAKER_10 3:33:53

Well, so let's talk about AI, because actually in this series, we haven't been foc overly focused on it. Many uh previous event spotlights and you know how it works in conversations at conferences. Everyone's talking about AI all the time. Um, but let's get into some of your views on where AI is on the travel industry or even as it relates to payments. What do you think the impact is of AI so far in travel? And where do you think we are in that journey and where where are we headed?

SPEAKER_04 3:34:19

When I was here last year, everything was about discovery. People were worried that what's gonna happen to the big travel uh uh OTAs, are they gonna disappear? Is Google gonna get into becoming a travel agent? I think we're past that. Uh people now know and understand that they had to readjust their uh websites to be discoverable, this discoverable. And instead of having SEO, we have GEO, right? So that was last year. We're moving into that, that just became the the stream. Really, when AI is start adding a lot of value, it's in the back office. Like all those repeatable manual processes that could be automated. So those companies that are really investing on making their operations more efficient are the ones that are more gonna move faster and be able to have a differentiator not just on cost, but on customer service, and we'll keep them at the forefront of the travel industry.

SPEAKER_10 3:35:08

And then tell us a little bit what's ahead for WEX. Where are you guys headed over the next year? What are some of the innovations, whether it be around AI and technology or even just partnerships? Where is WEX headed over the next six to 12 months?

SPEAKER_04 3:35:19

I mean, WEX as a global business, uh, of course, we're very bullish about AI. Uh, we recently, in just three months, our tech team created what is called Chat GTS uh with AWS Petrock, which uh, if you can see it, there's a YouTube video about it. It's quite interesting how in a short period of time they created this to attend to 4,000 uh tickets that are created and it's reducing now 25%. So we are really making sure that we are working with AI and maximize it to get our operations um working. In the forefront, when it is specifically about travel, for us it's very important to have partnerships. So we work very closely as well with airlines to make sure that um they are also part of the ecosystem and they're happy to accept cars. In the past, and generally there's been a resistance of accepting virtual cars because there is a cost, but there's only a cost when you don't see value. So it's our job to work with the airlines, and we're seeing more and more on that. And our clients come to us and stay with us because they know that we can make the pie bigger for them because we are gonna make it uh sure that they have more places where they can use their cards.

SPEAKER_10 3:36:28

Exciting. And I think that's where one of the things uh that uh gets forgotten is the the importance of payments in terms of uh conversions and just it's ultimately that's the moment of truth is someone gonna pull out their credit card and actually make this purchase and there's so much friction still around payments. I think this is still a lot of innovation that can happen around the payment space. Is there anything you'd point to for especially businesses that are trying to increase their conversions or make sure that customers continue to come back to them? Um what's your take on what will be your advice to them?

SPEAKER_04 3:37:01

Um as I said before, like uh if you didn't have a payment strategy, you don't have a growth strategy, and I cannot emphasize that enough. It's understanding also from your pay-in and balancing you know how many payment options that you have, and there are the right people uh the right options for your market and for your audience. If you have too many, they're gonna get confused. If you have too little, you know, they might get uh you might you might lose them, right? And if they are not smooth and there is friction, then they're gonna have uh you have will have abandonment through the through the customer journey. So that's just money going in. But then what's your payment strategy for money coming out? Because when there is a shock and we'll be talking about crisis, and then your client wants to refund, you know, a travel agent has to get that refund fairly quickly, otherwise they're gonna be uh uh uh neg having negative cash flow, right?

SPEAKER_10 3:37:51

Yeah, chargebacks, all these things that like come out of the street. Exactly. Yeah. Um one thing I want to make sure is that as our listeners hear more about this is that they can follow up and connect with you. But before we do that, just two last questions I have for you. So if you um project forward for our industry when we are together again next year in London, um what is as an industry and as a conference, what what do you think we're gonna be talking about this time next year? What do you think is gonna be the hot topic? What would you project forward for our listeners? Would be where do we go from here after Focus Right Europe in Barcelona?

SPEAKER_04 3:38:27

I think this time next year in London, uh, we will be talking about all the transactions that are now happening with Agentic AI. I think that that they go very fast. But I also think that we will be listening to the case studies of how people have used AI in the back office as opposed to in the forefront. So that's my prediction.

SPEAKER_10 3:38:48

All right, I think that's a pretty accurate prediction. Um and on that note, I just want to make sure, Carolina, that our listeners can connect with you after the conversation, whether it be on LinkedIn or email. What would be the best ways for uh for our listeners to reach out?

SPEAKER_04 3:39:00

Absolutely. LinkedIn uh is a good place. Otherwise, my email is carolina.castillo with a double l at wexinc.com.

SPEAKER_10 3:39:08

Fantastic. Lovely to meet you here. Good luck with the rest of the conference. I look forward to keeping in touch.

SPEAKER_04 3:39:12

Thank you, Dan.

Move Builds Agentic Package Infrastructure

SPEAKER_10 3:39:15

My next guest has traveled all the way from both Tel Aviv and Munich to be here, where he divides his time running an incredibly successful travel company called Move. He's the founder and CEO. Arez Busso, great to have you on the Travel Trends Podcast. Thanks for joining us. Whoa, thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here. And so his website is wearmove.ai, as we're having this conversation, but the company is called Move. Tell everyone a little background on the company and what you guys do.

SPEAKER_20 3:39:42

So uh yeah, so we uh tuckle uh one of the um let's say last segment to be digitalizing travel, which is the holiday packages, and we build an in uh agentic commerce infrastructure for travel. We've been back then from the tour. Operator, I've been a two-operator, classic one, taking commitment, flight, and so on. And for the last six years, uh I'm obsessed about solving uh the this uh complex uh segment, which is the holiday package, and delivering matched offer to the user uh that is struggling to find it online.

SPEAKER_10 3:40:23

And and you are a serial entrepreneur, you've had multiple startup success stories before this, and as you mentioned, you've been around, we're running this uh for six years. So uh you are uh also have been to the focus right conference before.

SPEAKER_20 3:40:36

Oh, yeah, many times. Yeah, many times in the focus right. Uh it's been a great coming year, uh meeting people, sometimes new, sometimes the same people. We're speaking along the year. And uh I think uh it's a best place just to understand that we're doing the right thing and we're not just you know building something that no one know wants.

SPEAKER_10 3:40:57

Well, and your the the work around infrastructure for AI and travel is an important conversation that's being had here at the conference. Tell everyone what brought you to the conference this year. Obviously, you've been here before. Any specific reasons you came back to Barcelona to be part of Focus Rate Europe?

SPEAKER_20 3:41:14

Yeah, sure. So two years ago, I came here with an announcement that we're building the first Intend First booking platform. Uh we won back then the People Choice Award as a startup, and uh that was quite exciting. And I think what was very exciting back then is that I was on stage presenting a deck without even mentioning AI one time. Today, this deck will never pass. So uh today I'm here to uh present Move, which is moving from a product which was Holiday Heroes, our product that we started to build, into an infrastructure that is open now for everyone. We tested what we've built, now we're opening for everyone, and that's exactly the place to announce it.

SPEAKER_10 3:42:03

Yeah, and actually, just on that point, so there's holiday heroes and then also rate core. Tell everyone about those two businesses and platforms which now are under the move business.

SPEAKER_20 3:42:14

Perfect. So those are two products under the move umbrella, the movie infrastructure. So Holiday Heroes is where brands can build, run, and scale their travel business, their travel store. Think about Shopify for travel. Okay, Shopify, you can build, everyone can build this store, and that's Oliday Heroes hub. It allows you to easily onboard, create your store, and start selling travel online. And a RAID core is the agentic system that is transforming any intent into bookable item, and it has his own MCP, so a protocol that allows all AI agents with one query to get access to flight, hotel packages, and in the future, we're gonna have also cruises and other services. Uh, so those are the two services and two access points into our infrastructure. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_10 3:43:08

And so, with with move now being this infrastructure play, who would be some examples of clients you'd work with?

SPEAKER_20 3:43:15

So, custom uh currently we're seeing huge demand coming from especially you know AI tree planners that are building amazing platform that understand the user and building beautiful itinerary, but I need the booking part. And when when the customer says, Okay, that's nice, that's amazing. Now I need to book it, that's where it breaks, and that's exactly the gap that we're filling, and that's uh one of the segments. The second second segment, I think that all two operators, big brands, travel companies that have a strong brand but are relying on legacy technology, they are now moving from legacy into an agentic infrastructure, and that's exactly what we're delivering. So we're giving them the infrastructure, an agentic infrastructure that it allows them to address the user where the user wants to be, which is Chat GPT and uh Cloud and the and different AI funnel.

SPEAKER_10 3:44:16

So you mentioned uh trip planners, of course. Um also within the travel ecosystem, I know you work with tour operators. Uh tell us a little bit on this idea of like AI power packaging. I'm really intrigued by that because a lot of tour operators are very uh disconnected and very offline. So I'd love, I'm sure many tour operators listening to this would be intrigued to know how I can become an AI native business.

SPEAKER_20 3:44:41

Yeah, that's uh that's a great you know. I stand the other day in front of 200 German two operators, and I was I I I didn't feel good because I I was talking about AI and so on in front of people that are using and still taking commitment and Excel sheets and so on. So I think it is really time to understand that for too long those two operators they forced customers to buy what they wanted to sell. And in travel, it doesn't work this way. It's it's not because you took a commitment or you decided to commit on 100 rooms in a hotel in Mallorca that that's what the user wants. And now with AI where the customer can express what he wants, the industry needs to change. So the two operator, an AI power package, is a package that is built based on user intent. So I'm telling you that I'm looking for a beach holiday with a family. I'm gonna tell you what is the age of my kid, I'm gonna tell you what I like to do during this holiday. Now is your turn to tell me what where you want to take me. And uh and it's not about uh endless option, it's about outcome because that's what the user currently looking for. He wants outcome. He's gonna tell us what he wants, we need to bring outcome, and that is forcing the industry to change. So those two operators who have excellent brand who for years base their entire business on inventory that they wanted to sell, not need to get rid of this inventory and just connect and give results.

SPEAKER_10 3:46:19

And what let's talk about results because obviously that's I know you guys have had quite a bit of traction with your platform over the years, and now as you look at what's having a big impact for travel companies in terms of conversion, one of the things that has been highlighted by uh I good friend John Lyotier, who runs Travel AI, who's part of this podcast as well, is the number of people that after using agentic, after after using generative AI tools to do research, they're much more likely to actually book. Uh so the conversion rates are much higher when people have done that research uh on their own. So tell us, like in terms of either booking uplift or increased conversion rates, what are some of the success, some what are some of the success metrics you'd point out that would be interesting to our listeners?

SPEAKER_20 3:47:01

100%. So uh if we go back then in the traditional search, the conversion rate on packages was around 0.6%. When we introduced an intent driven, which was just asking the user some question before just delivering it, not asking him where we want to go, asking him what he wants to do, we went from 0.6 to 2.4%. And with uh natural language, we reach 4% conversion rate. The reason is simple. Uh not that simple, but uh simple. The reason is that when you force a user to put a destination, you're not asking him really the real the question. You're asking him a question that he doesn't have the answer to. You ask me where do you want to go? I don't know. I don't know. There's so many out there. I saw so many destinations. I don't know when I want to go. But when finally you don't ask him where do you want to go, you're just telling him, What do you want to do? What do you feel more emotional? What do you feel like doing in your holiday? Then he is much more engaged with the result because he feels that the result matches an emotion. It doesn't just match uh boxes that I just filled up and you forced me to do that. I didn't want to do that. And I think that's where we see a significant uplift in conversion, and we proved it.

SPEAKER_10 3:48:27

And then where to from here? Obviously, you know, you've got multiple businesses now under obviously, it would sound to me like move is on the march and you guys are continuing to expand. What's ahead for you guys over the next six to twelve months?

SPEAKER_20 3:48:40

So, in the next six uh to twelve months, we have uh a pipeline of partners to onboard on our infrastructure. So, from small AI trip builder to very large uh operators that we want to onboard and uh we want them to take advantage of years of experience of an infrastructure now that can deliver on the AI era. And in five times years, I'm gonna jump to five years because I think that in five years, every AI agent that is going to book travel is gonna run on our rails. That's where we want to go.

SPEAKER_10 3:49:15

That's exciting. That's a big proposition. That's uh, you know, and even being willing to go out five years because so much is changing month to month at the moment, as you well know with AI. But you guys were ahead of the curve. You founded the business during COVID, obviously a challenging time. So you guys were ahead of this AI wave that we're all very familiar with now over the last three years. Um, from a conference like this, I'd love to get your insights around you know, what else brings you to a conference like this? And what are maybe some of the other benefits of being here at Focus Right Europe from what you're seeing and hearing about what's going on in the industry?

SPEAKER_20 3:49:45

So it's very interesting to see different decades. I think this is quite an interesting industry. I think there's only sellers here, there's no buyers. So it's very interesting to see everyone's challenges and everyone uh where it goes. I think some one of the things that always very surprised me is that there may be something that's evolving, but something that doesn't change. Travel is still is still a trust issue, companies are here, and what I see there's more and more, we're shifting into more and more data uh companies. I'm seeing here much more companies that are providing data and providing uh so very tiny solution to solve specific problems. And I think there's this is very exciting because at the end of the day, we are living in a world that finally understands that it's all about data, so travel is shifting, and uh and this is very interesting. What brings me here is just to meet people. Travel is around network, travel is a face-to-face business, and uh AI is maybe uh accelerating a certain shift, but AI will never limit us to continue meet people, seeing how we can grow faster. And I think that is the big opportunity. I'm speaking with people that are telling me all of them, wow, we shouldn't build that. So that means we can be alive in one month, in two months, and then I said, Yeah, we can be you can be live. Because today everyone understands that owning the technology doesn't mean a success. If they can move but time to market, it is very important. And this priority, uh, give us we've built it, we've done it, so it give us a great advantage. And being here, it's uh it's it's just great. Yeah, that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_10 3:51:35

I got two more questions for you. One, I'm just keen to get your take on what's happening in the industry at large. So outside of this conference that we're here together at, I know you have uh offices in Lisbon, in Munich, and of course in Tel Aviv, and you operate globally. What are some of the other things that you are paying attention to in terms of the trends, whether it's traveler behavior or um customer sentiment? What are some of the things you're paying attention to in 2026 that might be interesting for our listeners to be aware of?

SPEAKER_20 3:52:04

So the current sentiment is uh so on a on a professional perspective, the current sentiment is okay, where AI is gonna give it. You know, we are currently raising fund uh in order to accelerate our growth because we're getting a significant uh and I can I can tell you that the sentiment in the industry is uh and I'm hearing it more and more is where does really AI is gonna take us? Where is AI? What's gonna happen? What will be what will be the behavior of the user? Are they gonna book with AI agent? Are they gonna book into inside a chatbot or everything is gonna say stay the same? Those are big questions, and let's be honest, no one has the answer. No one has the answer. The important thing is to listen to the customer, test and learn, test and learn, test and learn. So that's the the in terms of the user, what's extremely, extremely interesting to see uh in the behavior, in the sentiment of the of the user, those is that suddenly he understands that uh that someone listened to him. So I can experience an emotion and someone is listening to him. But when it comes to book a travel, and this is very important, trust will win. They coming back to the brand, they're coming back to speak to someone, and there's so much things happening around the world that something's gonna happen with your flight, there's a big change, something's gonna happen, something gonna happen maybe with the hotel or whatever. I want to speak to someone, and that is a sentiment that we're seeing more and more people want this connection when it comes to book a travel. Different from a lot of things on out there in e-commerce, travel stays a human business.

SPEAKER_10 3:53:48

Yeah, and you know what's I couldn't agree more with that sentiment because that is literally the angle for our summit later this year about beyond AI and where humans are still relevant, because that's the question that a lot of us have been asking ourselves and each other is where is the human role in travel if a lot of this is being automated? And so um uh I'm sure a lot of people have been intrigued by our conversation. I've mentioned the website, wearemove.ai, but I want to make sure that people can connect with you either on LinkedIn or email or and also reach out to the team. So, what would be the best ways for our listeners to do that?

SPEAKER_20 3:54:21

So uh uh either on LinkedIn, uh so uh you can reach out my LinkedIn eresbuster or uh anywhere in the team. If you go to the website, you can also uh reach out through uh through uh the website. But always LinkedIn has become a great place to communicate and so on and to exchange and to uh so uh happy to uh to connect with anyone that is interesting to join our journey.

SPEAKER_10 3:54:47

Awesome, and just for everyone's for spelling, eres is er-e-z, as I'm Canadian, so I say Z or American Americans is e. B, and then his last name is B-O-U-S-S-O. So Erez Busso. And um uh I definitely will be keeping in touch for sure. It's a real pleasure to meet you here because it's the first time that Erez and I have had a chance to uh to meet, get to know each other. I've had a chance to meet some of his team members, and um certainly intrigued by what you do, and I wish you every success in the year ahead and enjoy the rest of the conference. Thank you very much. Let's enjoy Barcelona. Thank you. Indeed, ciao.

Data Appeal And Mabrian Merge Insights

SPEAKER_10 3:55:22

My next guest is the Chief Marketing and Communications Officer for Data Appeal, Mabrian, which he worked at Mabrian. The companies have now been merged. We're gonna get a bit of the backstory on that and what brings him here. But he's been to the Focus Right conference for many years, and he's well known to many people in the travel industry. And I would now like to introduce uh Carlos Sendra. Welcome to the Travel Trends Podcast.

SPEAKER_22 3:55:48

Thank you, Dan. Thank you for having us. For sure, yes.

SPEAKER_10 3:55:50

So tell everyone about Data Peel and Mabrian, these two companies and how they came together.

SPEAKER_22 3:55:54

Well, actually, we we are uh integrating both companies. Both of us were uh working in the in the data ecosystem for travel and tourism. Uh, in the case of Mabrian, we are very much focalized in destinations globally, and uh Data Peel was working with destinations and and companies. So what we we we are doing now is is just integrating our capabilities in order to have a broader uh scope in in the world and and extending our our services uh worldwide.

SPEAKER_10 3:56:26

Well, I know these two companies were doing something similar, and as you were just explaining before, we had a chance to sit down and record together that uh the data appeal is based in Italy. And based on one of the most beautiful parts of the world, Menorca, and so which is actually a big hub for travel and technology, which I've recently kind of un uh uncovered. I know there's a lot of travel companies based there.

SPEAKER_22 3:56:46

Yeah, absolutely. And I always say that probably that's the foundation and why we decided to go for tourism when decided to create a company uh that will uh basically uh develop big data analytics and and AI back in in 2013. So it's been 13 years now developing our own AI algorithms, uh which seems to be new, but it's not. Um so I always say that the the fact of being born in a very touristic place like the Balleric Island and Spain uh probably made us to decide to go for tourism where there was a lack of evidence-based decision making.

SPEAKER_10 3:57:29

And so it's really interesting because you're nine years that you're a Mabrian, and now it's just been the last uh few months these companies have come together. Um what was the background on Mabrian as a company?

SPEAKER_22 3:57:38

Yeah, well, Mabrian actually was the one born in 2013. And we start by doing sentiment analysis, uh basically using uh big data that we pull from social networks in order to interpret the spontaneous conversations of travelers to understand global travel trends and trying to predict those trends and help destinations and companies as well to know better what's going on on the travel and tourism sector globally.

SPEAKER_10 3:58:08

And then the data appeal as a standalone business, how did that differ from Mabrian and then just connect the dots as far as why they came together like this?

SPEAKER_22 3:58:16

That's that's a very good question because they did something similar. I mean, they were very much specialized as well in traveler sentiment, but the starting point was different. Uh in Mary, we start from the traveler, and in data appeal, they start from the point of interest. What does that mean? What they did is mapping all kinds of um points of interest that have a relation with the tourism. I mean, from uh let's say critical infrastructures like airports, uh hotels, short-term rentals, but even hospitals, restaurants, anything, museums, anything related to tourism. And from those, let's say, physical spots, they track all the digital traces that they can get from more than 100 different review sources in order to get the sentiment of all travelers interacting with those points of interest. In Mavericks was the different, I mean the starting point was the the the traveler, and so we've we found each other in the middle and we complement a lot each other in in the analytics we can do.

SPEAKER_10 3:59:21

And now the data appeal, we mentioned uh Italy, but specifically Florence, and for those people who are uh multitasking while having this conversation, it is dataapeal.io is the main website. Tell us a little bit more about what brings you to FocusRight this year. Because obviously you've been here before, but obviously you're now wearing kind of two hats as one with you know Data Appeal and Mabrian. Tell us a little bit, and I know you work closely with FocusRight, but yeah, tell us a little bit what brought you here this year.

SPEAKER_22 3:59:47

Well, for us, uh being being in FocusRight is is very important. First, to be update on the innovation in in the travel tech sector where we are, uh and also because of being uh partner of this event is very relevant in terms of uh, let's say, visibility and relevance for for our brand, right? I mean, we even though we work specifically mainly with destinations, we are very interested in being um identify as an innovation company, and FocusRight for sure can bring us that that positioning.

SPEAKER_10 4:00:23

Yeah, and that's this is where you're also a partner. Yeah, I know you know a lot of research and reporting, which is what Focus Right is known for. And coming to a conference like this, that's what most people are going into sessions looking for data insights that they can act on. And so that's one of the things I'm keen to ask you about in a moment is some of the trends that you're seeing across the industry. But before we move on to that, tell us a little bit more about Focus Right Europe this year and some of the either the sessions you've been involved in or some of the things that you are looking to share and showcase why you're here.

SPEAKER_22 4:00:51

Yeah, as always, the the event is I mean, the content on the event is very, very well curated. And and so far the sessions I've been participating has been really interesting. I've been even participating in uh in a round table as as a speaker, uh, where we were talking about uh the importance of the experiences on the decision making process of the travelers today. So how the uh experience drive decision making for the traveler now is is is basic, right? And how the tourism uh decisions have moved from uh something more, let's say more static uh vacation to more experiential um traveling, right? And and I mean with companies with uh like Civitatis and and many others that are really engaged on that segment.

SPEAKER_10 4:01:42

And I unfortunately didn't have the chance to attend your session. I was doing another panel at the same time, because it's four different things, and this is what the reality of a conference like this that so many things are happening at the same time, you've got to make a decision. And the roundtables I really enjoyed because they're so interactive and people can ask questions. Um, tell us a little bit more how yours went today and what were some of the outcomes of that.

SPEAKER_22 4:02:00

session yeah in fact uh I'm it was full full session I mean um was was packed of of attendees and was as you mentioned was very interactive so everyone had um uh an opinion and and was nice we also toggled the the the matter of the over tourism and how experiences can also help destinations to manage that challenge right uh and we we also got with with us uh responsibles for the Catalonia Tourism Board where Barcelona is based and and how they are obviously facing these kind of challenges not now but for some years now and it was really really interesting how uh both public segment but also private uh segment attendees were discussing and interchanging their their opinions.

SPEAKER_10 4:02:48

Yeah that's great and for me that's one of the main benefits of being at a conference like this is the the interactions that you can have with senior executives and key decision makers that obviously you're trying to get access to in the outside world you come to a conference like this and next thing you know you're in the same room together. One of the things I'd love for you to be able to share with our listeners too is some of the big trends that you're focusing on and to help kind of guide our listeners where the industry's headed. So tell us a little bit as we're having this conversation it is June 2026 to timestamp it. Obviously we can't uh predict various events that are happening around the world or swirling around us but in terms of the the main trends you're focusing on this year and what what are you seeing from consumer sentiment? What are you seeing with businesses?

SPEAKER_22 4:03:32

Where where do you think we are right now in um the travel industry well in terms of global trends we we just launched uh a couple of days ago uh an a global analysis on the on the travel trends and how the demand is moving uh globally for this summer 2026 where we can highlight for example the the specific uh good momentum of of Europe and southern Europe in terms of gathering all that demand that may be diverted from other regions of the world due to uh the I mean the current situation the geopolitical situations that is affecting not only Middle East but even a lot of destinations in in Asia South Asia since uh the connectivity is very much related to that to that area and and some of the let's say most important markets for those destinations are in Europe so uh the divert of uh that demand is is is affecting positively to the south of Europe for example also we can talk how uh North America is performing really well during the summer thanks to a huge event which is the World Cup uh which is obviously bringing a lot of demand for that but then we can see also uh uh pretty optimistic figures for Latin America uh since we are seeing how some destinations are now taking off in terms of international demand and jumping from basically regional or the domestic demand to to a broader uh let's say scope.

SPEAKER_10 4:05:06

So I want to actually ask you a bit about the World Cup and sports tourism. We just did a recent episode on our regular season seven podcast about sports tourism in 2026 and it got a lot of interest and attention we had Expedia as part of it home fans and a colleague of mine Azaz Sheikh who's done a lot of work in sports tourism and he's an avid football fan and so we we created this episode and I think it has huge potential to become a a standalone series because there's so many people that are interested in sports tourism. Tell us a little bit about that market especially World Cup and what you're seeing as far as people actually being uh deciding to travel for sporting events.

SPEAKER_22 4:05:46

Yeah I mean uh events itself is it's a it's an engine for traveling so a great motivation and we have many studies published regarding how events can really help destinations to drive demand but not only for international markets but also for the domestic which is for example the case of the World Cup uh 80% of the demand for the World Cup uh in the hosting countries uh US Canada and Mexico will be from domestic market and that's something that is very relevant uh to to to comment on since uh we are talking about huge markets specifically the in the case of the US uh even though the the the soccer is is kind of uh gaining fans in in the country is still not uh in the top three probably sports but this is gonna be a boost for all the cities hosting games uh for all that domestic traveling that uh probably will enhance a lot the the tourism industry in that in that in that in that places but also in Mexico we've seen something very similar Mexico is a is a very populated country and they are probably uh more into soccer or football and than the the US uh and and yeah I mean we're seeing a a huge um trend of demand from from the domestic markets even though there is obviously a lot of uh international demand as well yeah well I'm I'm certainly excited to continue to follow that sector and you're right about events I mean last year it was all about Taylor Swift and the Swift effect right of events and so people are definitely traveling for events people are traveling for festivals you know the there's all these little niches but they add up and some of them are substantial markets.

SPEAKER_10 4:07:33

So sports tourism is definitely a um a big focus is there any other kind of categories that you would highlight to our listeners that they should be paying attention to in terms of what consumers are choosing today and as far as travel any other kind of big shifts in consumer behavior?

SPEAKER_22 4:07:49

Yeah uh for example we we just did uh uh research uh along with Focus Right uh a white paper for for this event together regarding how the uh profile of the Europeans Europeans is is shifting is is switching uh when traveling to the US and we what we found out is is how the interest for the active and natural related uh activities is increasing um the constantly since in some years now in fact what we did in in this report is comparing 2023 to 2025 and one of the conclusions was yeah that that growing trend for looking um off the path destinations related to nature uh experiential destinations um very much related to great landscapes that we don't have in Europe for example uh since we are talking about the European markets also uh we highlighted something very interesting related to the perception of the country uh since uh probably we are now immersed in a stage where the perception of the country from Europe is key in order to really tackle that that potential demand from the different European markets we we need to remind that uh I mean Europe is very heterogeneous in terms of of profiles even though it's a small territory so it that's that's something very relevant to keep in mind for the destinations uh in the US in order to really provide uh what what the the potential travelers in Europe may may look for. And how is there a way that our listeners can get access to that report? Is it on your website or is it it is it in our website and also Focus Right is gonna share it.

SPEAKER_10 4:09:39

Fantastic tell us a little bit about I've got kind of two final questions here for you uh in terms of uh the company and where you guys are headed over the next six to twelve months tell us a little bit more about I know it's new the merger and the companies coming together but uh where are you guys headed and and what are some of the main developments you're focusing on?

SPEAKER_22 4:09:59

In fact one of the strategic visions for us is um and and I I can summarize that in in one sentence which is no data, no AI. And that doesn't mean we don't bet for AI that would be very silly from our side I mean we've been developing our AI algorithms for a long time we are a lot into agentic AI development now but what we realize is that uh this kind of technology is going to be a commodity uh sooner than than later and all that will be senseless if cannot be uh fitted by the correct data so accessibility and creation of data would be key in order to fit all those systems and have uh a good outcome of all that right so we we are pretty much uh focusing on how we can be the most specialized company in terms of tourism data in order to feed and train all those systems that can be B2C or even B2B uh to provide with uh accuracy of data and accessibility of data.

SPEAKER_10 4:11:12

Fascinating and one of the things I wanted to ask you and I've only asked one other guest this but I feel like it's a question that you're well positioned to uh theorize on which is when we get together this time next year in London that's obviously where the uh conference is moving next year if there was a topic you think we're gonna be talking about a year from now what would you predict that's gonna be one of the main themes of the 2027 Focus Right year of conference I guess we'll we'll be in automatation I mean uh in all those seamless processes uh that uh agencai will be probably uh a reality within the next 12 months yeah yeah yeah it's interesting that that's um uh I agentic AI it's one of the questions that people were asking you about dinner last night what do you think the breakthrough technology is what's gonna happen and the reality is is that agentic AI eventually the dam will break people will start booking with agentic AI and it's gonna be uh an uncertain and exciting time for the industry to see exactly how that plays out and so um I think that's a great uh prediction uh but let's make sure that all of our listeners can connect with you learn more about the company follow up if they want to partner with you obviously I've mentioned the website uh but carlos what would be some of the other ways for people to reach out to you or the team well but you can you can find me on LinkedIn we can you can find me also in inix uh by my name is Carlos Sendra.

SPEAKER_22 4:12:39

My surname I can spell it uh I mean it's it's actually it's not even Spanish it's Catalan uh I I'm born in in an island here in in Spain where we speak Catalan as well so my surname is C-E-N-D-R-I-A. So uh happy to connect with with everybody and and and chat and and catch up for for trends for technology and for all that uh joins here together.

SPEAKER_10 4:13:06

Awesome well gracias Carlos it's really great to speak to you I'm glad that we had a chance to uh to meet here at the conference and I'm really intrigued to see how everything goes as the companies come together and what the potential is and speaking again next year or before but great to meet you and good luck with the rest of the conference.

World Travel Market Programming And Growth

SPEAKER_10 4:13:22

Thank you very much Dan thank you for having us our next guest is Brooke Gilbertson and she is the head of content and conference manager for World Travel Market and Arabian Travel Market the travel market conferences. Brooke it's great to have you on the Travel Trends podcast here at the Focus Right conference.

SPEAKER_09 4:13:42

Thanks for joining us thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_10 4:13:45

It's a pleasure well it's perfect timing for you being here obviously as we're uh at the Focus Right conference in Barcelona you being based in London and one of the privileges I've had over the last two years is to speak at WTM and it's been a huge highlight for me. So I just want to start by acknowledging that and saying thank you again for those incredible opportunities and what a fan I am of World Travel Market.

SPEAKER_09 4:14:07

Of course no it's always it's always a highlight uh we always have you kind of leading on our marketing summit so uh thank you for always being a participant and I'm looking forward to the next one.

SPEAKER_10 4:14:16

Yeah no I'm excited about that as well so we'll we'll make sure that uh we do finish with that because we want to make sure all of our listeners plan to to join us there as well and interestingly focus right is bringing their event next year to London and so Focus Right Europe will be in London as well. Everything seems to be happening in London is like uh I was born in the UK as many of our listeners know and I love traveling to England. Um but let's talk about what brings you here to Focus Right Barcelona. So tell us a little bit more about uh the the the reasons for you coming to this conference.

SPEAKER_09 4:14:45

Of course well I'm just here to absorb all the knowledge uh I want to learn a lot more about the travel industry travel tech is such an intricate uh uh part of the travel ecosystem um and a lot of uh parts of it are quite fragmented so I'm just here to really absorb learn educate myself and just really to hear what's happening in the industry what pain points there are and maybe if there are any opportunities that we can uh fulfill with our content.

SPEAKER_10 4:15:11

Yeah for sure and so tell us I'd love to hear some of the highlights I mean we've caught up over the last couple of days so it's been great to see you and and have some time to chat together and I know you've been in and out of lots of sessions.

SPEAKER_09 4:15:22

What have been some of the highlights and takeaways for you I think the I mean I just came out of a session about agentic commerce and I think that the the key thing we're looking at there is that the consumer side and the business side are very different, right? Consumers are lacking the trust in agentic AI uh and the businesses want to start implementing it. So how do we bridge that gap? How do we really facilitate a trusting environment on the web? Do we have the kind of human first web pages? Do we have the agent first web pages? How do we deliver SEO for those kinds of things and how is that going to look in the future? And it's kind of just mind-boggling right now because businesses don't know how to fill the gaps a cut consumers don't know if they're gonna fill uh if they're gonna feel the trust to use their agent to book their holidays for them. So where we're gonna be I don't know.

SPEAKER_10 4:16:10

Yeah well and that's that's the beauty of these conferences. I one of the things that I love about Focus Right conferences is all of the content that they produce because obviously at the core of their business model they're a research company and that this is what I would always come to a conference like Focus Right for was to learn so I could go back and apply that in my executive role in a travel company. For me the networking was always secondary because I never was really focused on business development but obviously that is another big reason that people come to the event like this. What do you think from your vantage point? Because it's really interesting having this conversation with you because World Travel Market is an incredible conference and it's very special and it's very different than focus right. And so you know there is some overlap potentially in terms of the the individuals um that might attend both conferences but they they each sit in their own very unique niche. And so what what would be the when you look at focus right coming to a conference like this um what do you think is unique about the con the focus right experience?

SPEAKER_09 4:17:12

I think from from my perspective coming to focus right is the people in the room right you have so many investors here and you know I have had meetings with people that founded companies or sold companies like Viator and things like that and I'm just kind of in awe of the audiences here whether you're just grabbing lunch and you sit down and you find out okay this guy was on the board for Expedia or whatever and it's just like you you don't get access to those people anywhere but here right and I think the with WTM I am able to curate content to help you know build the build the ecosystem in a better way right and I think the what I'm trying to deliver at WTM puts me in a unique position because I get to try and solve the problems with content. And I think that we have more of a standpoint on getting maybe the people on the ground on the stage the people that are doing uh doing the things that they're talking about rather than getting those C-suites in we're getting the people that are actually actioning uh change. So that that's what I think is maybe the unique difference between the two.

SPEAKER_10 4:18:18

Yeah no I couldn't agree with you more because you know Focus Right USA has always been one of my favorite travel industry conferences because it combines the senior executives the decision makers with also a US scale of you know about a thousand to fifteen hundred attendees being here in Europe last year for the first time the one thing that I thought was really cool about this event is it's more about 500 it's more like 500 attendees so it's more intimate but you get actually in many ways better access to individuals like Chris Hemeter from Thayer Ventures for example in the US sort of behind a velvet rope doing doing deals here he's wandering around the room and chatting with people and and as you mentioned Rod Cuthbert from Viator there is you know the the people around the room here are uh senior leaders with incredible experience uh but they're very accessible um but let on that note let's talk about world travel market and I mean world travel market for the last few years I had not been before and like it's it was eye-opening for me the scale of a world travel market um for anyone who's not familiar so WTM.com for anyone who wants to multitask while we're in this conversation to learn about WTM London the Arabian travel market you also have Latin America and Africa now as well um and you continue to expand Riyadh India like it's really incredible to see the um the scale and growth of the conferences you guys run but obviously WTM London is particularly special as well because this was this is this is your largest conference and so tell everyone for anyone that's not familiar that's listening to this a bit of background on WTM London and that conference itself.

SPEAKER_09 4:19:54

Yeah WTM London is the flagship for all of the WTM brands and it is you know we see over 5000 people come through these doors across three days and the people that come are travel buyers sellers exhibitors you know it's a trade show first and foremost right my role sits within the content and all of the conferencing that's the secondary part of the show the main part of the show people through those doors will be making meetings with the likes of Emirates, you know, they'll be coming to meet Hilton they'll be making business deals on the show floor. The amount of MOUs that get signed there is just insane you know the business deals you see it was quite quite funny really um my parents live in South Africa they had a um local newspaper and in the local newspaper it was announcing a new flight path uh from Cape Town to Brazil somewhere in Brazil I think they took a picture of it and then sent it to me and I was like yeah that was a World Travel Market. That deal got signed while I work and I think that that just was like one of those moments full circle really my parents were like out in South Africa seeing all these business deals being done in a local newspaper that were happening on the show floor at London.

SPEAKER_10 4:21:01

Yeah it's amazing I mean just the scale 500 people here 5000 uh WTM and that you know the tourism boards from around the world that come together for the conference the exquisite uh trade show booth that they put together all the different events over the course of that week it really has become you know the a landmark week the first week of November and you guys always carve out that time November 3rd to 5th let's tell everyone what you have in store for this year. What are some of the plans given that you know here we are having this conversation in June many people listening to this in July and August so it's coming up quickly.

SPEAKER_09 4:21:34

What are some of the uh themes for this year and the the plans for the conference yeah so flash off the press we have opened registration so if you want to go onto the website WTM London go ahead make your booking we are ready and waiting for everyone to get their tickets which is exciting um there's a lot of change and a lot of transition that's happening this year. I think the one of the most exciting things is that we're partnering with Wonderlust who are leading on our headliner stage and we have got an interview with some Michael Palin happening.

SPEAKER_10 4:22:03

So that's very exciting legendary love Michael Palin. Yeah love Monty Python and love that he went on to do travel and travels around the world I'm a huge fan yeah that's really cool.

SPEAKER_09 4:22:13

Exactly and so we bring voices like that to the stage and on our headliner stage but we've also kind of had the opportunity to transition what we're doing on the other stages. And I think that what I'm most excited for is the ability to have these peer-to-peer conversations, facilitating networking and making it feel a bit more like this kind of event where these people in the room are the decision makers and you have access to them. And you know we've got the future stage which is our travel tech stage we've got the um the trend stage where we're gonna have bite-sized 15-minute presentations of all the crazy travel trends, all the fads, what's gonna be the biggest trend we're seeing for Gen Alpha maybe you know food tourism, things like that. And then our final stage is going to be an experience hub. And I wanted to kind of get rid of the name stage. I want it to be a hub because it's gonna be for community it's gonna be for networking we're gonna address uh conversations such as uh sustainability, DNI, you know, at the core what we're trying to do is really give the the community the travel community what they want um and listen to their wants and needs and just fulfill that through the content.

SPEAKER_10 4:23:13

Yeah I'm so excited I'm looking forward to being back and obviously it's uh it's marked on my calendar as it is for uh many of our listeners because uh last year was particularly special for us I know you uh made some adjustments to the conference schedule to shift to make sure that everyone attended the last day and so you know the first two days are super busy and then like any conference you know the third day does start to thin out and you guys made some really successful changes and I was really proud to be a part of that because and I was nervous at first because you had moved uh my session with Matthew to the uh the the Thursday and towards the end of the day and I was so thrilled that we were it was sold out it was at capacity people were still lined up to get in like the year before there was about 150 people that couldn't get into our session and it was a real thrill for me to see that listeners to our Podcasts, people just interested in the subject matter we were going to be talking about. And so um I know we have plans to collaborate again this year, which we'll be sure to announce to our listeners in the uh the near future. Um, but one other thing we should mention too is that before WTM you have Arabian Travel Market that's actually in September in Dubai. Tell everyone a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_09 4:24:21

Yeah, so ATM again, it's it's a global event. It's based in Dubai because of course the Middle East is such an emerging market and a destination that everyone wants to get investment in or from. Um and I think that it is very much on the same scale as WTM now. We're seeing around 50,000 uh at that event. It's a four-day event though, so there is an additional day on that. Um, and we we do a lot of stuff around, you know, the global growth um within the industry. Uh we we try to spotlight things such as sustainability again because they're such cool parts of uh the region. Um but we also have um some really uh strong kind of support from the likes of the UN tourism, for example, because they want to really bring the communities together within the Middle East and just to really share the message that, you know, travel is still coming back. There's gonna be a really resilient uh region and there's gonna be a massive boom there. So how do we build the foundations for that boom again? You know, and it's this is one of our, I mean, it's a long-standing show. It's been going for over 30 years and it's been growing and growing and growing. And I think, you know, ATM and WTM are both pretty much, you know, the same scale, very international, and I think just very exciting places. And you'll see when you get to ATM, hopefully one time, um, the scale of the the stands are just even more impressive.

SPEAKER_10 4:25:40

Yeah, no, I can't wait to get there. And um, I mean, and this is where, given my experience at WTM London, I've got a great respect and affinity for WTM and the conferences you hold, and the fact you're continuing to expand them globally is really exciting, especially to places like Latin America that I really think have such an exciting future. Because as we've highlighted on the opening of this episode, we have Sueon joining us for who runs Webin travel. And we were talking about the rise of regional travel. Um, one of the areas in the world that's seeing a significant increase in regional travel is Latin America, people traveling around Latin America, um, not just inbound into Latin America. So there's all these fascinating trends, and I know obviously you'll be talking about Arabian travel markets, another uh area that there's a lot of regional travel. And so um tell us a little bit into uh as far as the future of WTM, some of those additional conferences you're expanding to. And then I'm I know I've mentioned the website, but I'd love for all of our listeners to know how to get involved and to be able to reach out and connect with you too, Brooke.

SPEAKER_09 4:26:43

Of course, yeah. So we've got our WTM Spotlight events, uh, one of which will be in Briyad uh a few weeks before ATM, and the other one will be um in India. Um, and these are just really exciting emerging markets, and they're opportunities to again connect with the region. And like you say, regional tourism is so important, and we facilitate connections for the communities, we facilitate connections between all of the travel and tourism ecosystem. So if we we hope that these events can expand and you know be as successful as our larger events, but also to to really fill that gap and to to enable uh a growth for the tourism industry in these regions, right? That's what we do. We're in the business of building businesses, you know. That's that's the core part of why you come to these shows. And so these new launches are really exciting for us because we can help rebuild the travel industry in those areas.

SPEAKER_10 4:27:32

Fantastic. Yeah, and so and just to just to finish off, because obviously, Brooke, it's great to get this time with you. Wonderful to see you here uh at Focus, right? Um, if people want to reach out to you, obviously you're active on LinkedIn. Um, and WTM.com is the main hub. Is there any other ways that people should be aware of to uh to get in touch or to collaborate with you guys?

SPEAKER_09 4:27:51

I think the best way is always through web. As I was saying uh right at the beginning, are we gonna be going through a dental commerce? Maybe, maybe I'll have an agent one day that you can contact me through. Um, but no, no, so far, LinkedIn, website, straight in there. Um, and yeah, I'll I'll be there. Um best person to speak to around, you know, connecting on topic areas and new ideas. I'm always open to a new idea. I think that's what I'm really excited about because I have an opportunity to transform things and change things and hopefully push the industry forward in a new way. Um so yeah, connect, reach out. Uh my inbox is open.

SPEAKER_10 4:28:28

Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that. Um I I couldn't agree more because uh I love LinkedIn, but the messages I get, I have struggled to keep up, as some of my listeners may know. And uh once a month I go through all of my LinkedIn messages and I just ask everyone to please email me, just carry it over to a platform that I can better track and monitor. And so uh one of the agentic solutions for sure is I need to automate that inbox. So that's a great reminder and suggestion. Um, and will be great for both of us because I know how busy you are and how successful this conference is. And so, Brooke, I look forward to seeing you again in November, keeping in touch before. I know we're planning to do an uh event preview episode, so we'll uh share that with our listeners as well so you can learn more before the event about what you should do and some of the um the important developments and uh focuses and sessions and speakers and and partners. So, Brooke, wonderful to see you here in person. Safe travels home and look forward to keeping in touch.

SPEAKER_09 4:29:24

Thank you so much.

TripAd Ancillaries And Rising Fraud

SPEAKER_10 4:29:27

Our next guest is CeeDee Lazier, who is the managing director of TripAd. He was also in my panel session yesterday, and it was fantastic to have him in the room. He asked some really fascinating questions and he also made the audience really laugh. So it's great to have him as part of that ground transportation conversation. Uh, we've gotten a chance to know each other over the last couple of conferences. So, CeeDee, it's great to see you again. Thanks for joining us for the podcast.

SPEAKER_06 4:29:49

Hi, good afternoon.

SPEAKER_10 4:29:50

Tell everyone about Tripad and what you guys do.

SPEAKER_06 4:29:53

So, TripAd is an ancillaries marketplace. We came about during COVID when our sister company Blue Ribbon Bags, which is a delayed luggage crisis concierge sold in lots of online travel agencies, was approached by many of our clients to ask us what else we do, because they're desperate for ancillary revenue. And at the time, my colleagues Robert, Daniel, Diego, myself would answer, that's all we do, we find lost luggage. And the pushback was pretty intense. Come on, guys, look at your LinkedIn profile. You've got 3,000 people, you know all these suppliers, you have to know someone. And we realized that there was a kind of a gap in the industry. People are talking to each other, but no one's actually being a matchmaker or helping anyone else get more revenue or sell more things to the suppliers. So being a matchmaker is one thing, but then are the suppliers good suppliers and how do we work with them? So we've got multiple hats. First, we've got to find the suppliers, then we have to vet them, negotiate with them, integrate them. But once they're in our system, we're a one-stop shop of ancillary revenue, which is used by a bunch of people.

SPEAKER_10 4:31:08

Yeah, that's a part I was amazed, the scale of the business. And for uh our listeners, it's tripad.com. Uh, tell us about those partners and what brings you here to FocusRate. I know you've been to FocusRate for many years, so you're a familiar face, but tell us uh specifically where wh why TripAd here at FocusRate Europe 2026?

SPEAKER_06 4:31:28

So we've got quite a few suppliers who are Europe-based, um, where it's the ground transportation suppliers, quite a few of them over here. That was the panel that we were on together yesterday, um, as well as some tech suppliers, electronic SIM card suppliers, lounge uh providers. So I kind of come to FocusRite Europe specifically to save myself having to do 15 other business trips around Europe to visit my suppliers because they're all coming here. Yeah. So part of it is a logistics reason. The other thing is um every focus right I go to, I have a goal to find out what is under the radar that I'm missing, or what's the new trend, or what are people speaking about that they didn't speak about at the previous conference? And there's always something. Is it a new supplier that we've missed? Is it a new angle that we've missed? Is it a new ancillary? And so, besides for saving on the business travel, um, I'm always looking for like what's the next best thing, or what are people talking about that we've missed? So that's why I'm here. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_10 4:32:39

And um, in terms of blue ribbon, I also want to just as a sister company. You mentioned that because obviously you're still involved with blue ribbon as well as TripAd.

SPEAKER_06 4:32:48

Yes, uh Blue Ribbon bags is still very much a milking cow. Um, luggage is not arriving at the airport every single day. Uh, any airport you land at anywhere in the world, there is still a lost luggage counter. That phenomena has not disappeared despite air tags and Samsung tags and everything. People are still checking in suitcases, and some of them are going on a more exciting trip than the actual passenger. So the Blue Ribbon Bags Crisis Concierge very much still exists, and the service is sought after by um tour operators and online travel agencies the like, as well as even some airlines and insurance companies, credit card issuers. So that as a standalone business exists, and there are still some of our clients that that's all they want. And so it exists and we market it. Um, but Blue Ribbon Bags is also a supplier inside the TripAd marketplace because there are some of those, if you remember what I said about COVID, there are some of those online travel agencies who have migrated entirely. They said we want to keep Blue Ribbon bags, we need a ton more. So, how do we move to a system that can give us seven or eight offers to the supplier at the same time?

SPEAKER_11 4:34:00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 4:34:01

Well, now I know you're super engaged in our session, which again I appreciate it because that was the intention of, and you obviously have a lot of experience and expertise in that space as well, yeah, given the work that you do. I'd love to hear some of your other observations and insights from other sessions you've attended over the last couple of days.

SPEAKER_06 4:34:17

Um, I definitely have noticed that I think it's kind of a COVID lesson that we had. That in COVID, initially everyone said that this is the end of travel as we know it. And there'll never be travel ever again, and we recovered. Yeah, yeah. And then when everything started uh going south in the Middle East recently, everyone was like, oh my god, Etihad, Emirates, Oman Air, Gulf, Air, Kuwait Airlines are going to shut down. And my answer to that was just make a cup of coffee. People have to travel. If you look at, for example, a market that we're very engaged in, Australia. If I'm not mistaken, the average Australian has 30 paid vacation days a year. Maybe it's because they're so far from everything and they need to travel for so long. People will travel. We want to see things, we want to explore places, we want to go around. Okay, so there's always that initial, oh my god, moment. And then people are thirsty, people want to see places, they want to experience new things. Travel rebounds, and what I came at least from the first day of the W the wit part of this uh event is people are optimistic, and I think that it's it's all gonna bounce back. Um, yeah, okay, so there will always be the people I'm not traveling via for the next X amount of time, and then they'll see a really, really good business class airfare on Emirates, and they'll forget everything that they said, and they're gonna be flying by Dubai, or they'll be taking advantage of the Etihad uh layover program where they pay for your hotel and whatnot. So I think also a good thing is that God gave us the ability to forget and forgetfulness, and I think that uh people will get over their I will never. Um yeah, don't let's not say that. Yeah, people will, we'll get over everything. And I I came out with a lot of optimism on that first day. Um, so that was really something that I'm glad that I came earlier for the conference to see that optimism, but I'm also noticing um what the one thing that I did notice is that fraud is a very big discussion right now. AI fraud, um, even physical fraud in airports, um uh payment fraud. That is a very big topic of discussion that I have noticed. And I as I said, I come here to see what people are talking about. And fraud is a big discussion this this conference, interestingly enough.

SPEAKER_10 4:36:54

Yeah, it's uh one of the uh guests that we actually had runs um she heads up partnerships for chargebacks 911. And this is where people are now protesting their credit card charges and sometimes um um doing so fraudulently. They've had a great trip, but then they actually say they didn't, and they let their cards a charge back. And it's interesting, these are the things that clearly we're starting to see more of in our industry. And as you mentioned with AI, it's it's probably the gets the least amount of coverage is the negative impacts of AI, including the ability now to impersonate people's voices and like so how difficult it is for banks, let alone travel companies, to try and know that they're dealing with the actual customer and all of these new cases of fraud that find a big industry like travel and kind of go after that for a period of time. So I think you're um you're raising a port and warning flag for our listeners, but what would you say people should be doing about that?

SPEAKER_06 4:37:46

There's the always the dark side, unfortunately, of every industry. The travel industry, especially the hospitality industry, is you're expecting the person to the customer is always right, you know, to smile at the guest that comes to the front desk. And I pray that it's not going to be the guest is now under suspicion at that front desk of the hotel. I really hope the industry doesn't go that way because that's that would be sad, okay, because we still hope to get that smiley face when we check into the airline or we check in at the front desk. Um, but I definitely if I'll use a classic example, is the entry cards that you need to complete digitally, like for example, to Bangkok. Um, I strongly suggest that if you're not sure, if you've used AI to ask what is the digital entry card that I need to complete, I actually think that when it comes to things where you need to put in your critical personal data, your passport details, etc., go to the embassy website and find the form there. Don't do an AI search, don't rely on AI to tell you whether you need a visa or not, because at least from what I'm seeing, AI is out there to make you feel good and happy and give you a positive response, and it'll tell you, yeah, you don't need a visa. If you say, Do I not need a visa? Yeah, I think you do not need a visa, as opposed to use a company like Sherpa, for example, or some of these companies, that that is exactly what they do. They'll tell you whether you need a visa, or even go to the website of that country and see the direct um source. Yes, it's a bit of extra work, but when it comes to a thing of being denied entry into a country because AI or ChatGPT told you that you don't need a visa, uh that's not going to be a very good experience.

SPEAKER_10 4:39:40

Yeah, for sure. And this is yeah, it's really interesting getting your perspective on this because I know you work you grew up in hospitality. Like you have uh do you mind sharing that? Because I thought it was really fascinating when you jumped into the conversation yesterday. Um, because someone who understands hospitality understands customer service in a way that then translates to the guest experience when you arrive at an airport. So I'd love if you wouldn't mind, CD, just sharing your personal background in the travel industry.

SPEAKER_06 4:40:05

So very interestingly, um I did live in an actual hotel for a good few years of my childhood. Um, rooms 406 through 410 of the Belmont Hotel in Seapoint Cape Town was our family home. Um we owned the building, and that's where our dad decided the fourth floor was a good place. My grandmother was in room 50502, and my other grandparents were in suite 302. Um we uh at some point my dad bought the house next door and we moved out of the hotel. But I did have an opportunity to firsthand see how my father and mother uh dealt with guests. And yes, the customer is always right, but sometimes you also need to manage expectations. But one thing I learned from my dad was especially when it was repeat customers or an unknown customer, was I mean, in those days it was a fax. I remember when my dad got his first fax with the rolls and the thermal paper and the that type of a thing. Um, but my dad would ask a new customer, is there anything that you need? Is there any advice you need? How are you getting to the hotel from the airport? Questions like that, which was what's nowadays referred to as a pre-alert. Um, but in those, then it can be often done via an app. But my father would keep a little profile um on the repeat customers, remembering um these are tea drinkers. Make sure that we put lots of tea bags in the room, um, or these are early risers and go out for a walk. So to put like, well, in those days it was now it'd be a paper, but those days it was still okay to have a styrofoam um cups in the room because they like to take their coffee out with them, um, or to ask them, are you renting a car again? Because he remembered the previous time there was issues, it's a bit of a narrow neighborhood, and there were issues with parking, and try to see if we could pre-and those wasn't like major things and the person could probably manage, but if you could ask them in advance to just have a quick pre-trip, and that was something that I learned and uh is something that is still is a gap to this day in the hospitality industry is that pre-arrival questionnaire, what time are you arriving? Room service is going to be closed by the time you arrive. Is there something from the attached PDF of our room service menu that we could have in the room for you? I mean, that speaks that that that's massive. That that that is uh can be a reason why you'll come back to hotel. Just the fact that they preempted your arrival, yeah, which is a gap still to this day. And my dad was doing it manually with a pencil and a pen and a fax machine back in the 1990s, and in 2026 we still have that gap.

SPEAKER_10 4:42:51

Yeah. Yeah, no, and and uh I appreciate you sharing your personal story and your background because it is very relevant to our conversation and to this event spotlight episode, because at the end of the day, it does come back to the guest experience, and what I mean by that is the consumer. What are the consumer expectations? What does the consumer want? Who's taking care of the guest? And hospitality has always had a special way of doing that to really uh uh delight them and and uh make them feel incredibly welcome and take care of every need. And then also like early stages of CRM, really understanding their customers and and and ensuring lifetime customer value, they're coming back. So all those principles of running a successful hospitality business in the 90s or before are so still very relevant today. Um but to fast forward to where we are now in Barcelona together, uh, and to bring our conversation back to TripAd, now that people know your background, um, tell us a little bit more where the company is headed. And the reason I want to fast forward to that is because clearly you're responding to partner interest, and partners are responding to consumer requests. They have customers, there's an opportunity to generate more revenue, and so you guys are gonna be continually under pressure to do more, add more, add more partners. So tell us what the plans are in the next six months for Tripad.

SPEAKER_06 4:44:02

So we have from our sister company Plu Ribbon Bads a lot of online travel agencies and some airlines who so that's a nice base of customers to convert to the TripAd uh marketplace and uh usage. But the there's a lot of chatter in the industry of the online travel agency is doomed, AI is going to take over, etc. etc. I don't know if I agree with that, and I'm not 100% sure if I'm ready to join that conversation because I do know that there are some online travel agencies. Look, for example, at uh trip.com, who are actually not seeing themselves anymore even as an online travel agency. Trip.com almost sees themselves as a fintech company that sells um concerts and events and happens to also offer you a flight afterwards. Um so I'm not sure if the OTA is going, or the OTA is just um uh redefining itself. What's not going away is the airline's website, and people there are going to still be a lot of people that will book directly on the airline, whether they are a uh frequent flyer, they are a fan, they have got a compensation voucher. They just it's easier for them to book on united.com or whatever it is, and for that reason, TripAd is very focused on airlines not only, but we are Qatar Airways uses the Tripad um marketplace for its travel extras, and there are a few more coming along, and so Airlines is definitely a place um uh that we're looking at, um, as well as hotels have actually started selling travel extras. Why? Because the hotels have realized that if a person is coming to Marriott.com or to ihg.com and they're holding their credit card and they're booking a hotel. Then why don't you sell them an airport transfer? They have to get to the hotel somehow. For sure. Marriott sells travel insurance now. People thought that that was why. Because Marriott realized, well, they're gonna buy the insurance somewhere else. Well, they may we may as well sell it.

unknown 4:46:15

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_10 4:46:16

Yeah, really great perspectives. And I, you know, I um for me in catching up with you, CD, I mean you have your role at TripAd and Blue Ribbons, and um, but I think you just add some really valuable perspectives to the industry. And so one of the things I'd like to ask you is I got one more question for you, then we'll make sure that our listeners can connect with you and follow up with you for both business opportunities and also just uh uh to know you as a voice of the industry. But you highlighted some several interesting things in our conversation. Fraud was a great example of that, um, an AI fraud. What else would you suggest that our listeners be paying attention to as far as the trends you're seeing in the global travel industry? Uh you know, you mentioned obviously about the Middle East and um uh that day one, which and it was like Charlotte Lamp Davies also mentioned, uh there is a very optimistic view going forward, and like you know, if it does take, like Stuart mentioned on this podcast as well, 18 months to come back, like it will come back. Um but uh I would love to hear what else is top of mind for you that you think our listeners should be paying attention to.

SPEAKER_06 4:47:22

I actually think that there are so many places in the world that are undiscovered or underexplored, um uh and we really should go out there and enjoy them, and if there is no cell phone coverage over there, even better. Um, despite growing up in South Africa and knowing it pretty well, we went last year in August to on a three-week vacation. Some places my wife and I had been to, even some of my older kids had been to, my youngest had not. But we specifically combined well-known to unknown places. I asked some of the travel advisors that I know in South Africa, these are the areas we're going to, but can you give me some things that are not on TripAdvisor that AI is not going to tell me a local business or local attraction that you local people like to go to? We landed up going horseback around riding for a whole afternoon in an area where as a kid I used to go to a summer camp, but the summer camp probably just never turned left at that junction because I'd never explored those mountains and those caves, and it was absolutely amazing. And I think that like we should um in this digital age um we should look out for well, where can I go that I can disconnect? And you know what? My teenagers who all have their smartphones and whatever, they didn't complain. Yeah, the first evening, oh the Wi-Fi is a bit bad over here, and they just got used to it. And suddenly they were playing Jenga, and suddenly they were in the pool for double the time because they actually realize it's not the end of the world not to be on their phone. And so I really suggest go to a place that you've never been to. I want to go to Mongolia because people say it's absolutely amazing and unexplored, and it's definitely on um uh my bucket list uh to go to, and I think that we should uh travel and explore, but go off the beaten track um uh and maybe even ask a travel agent, actually one of those mom and pop shops, for advice for a place that you have been to, and if there is good food there, even better. And if you can get involved in the cooking of that food and take the recipe home with you, you'll remember that more than any digital experience. And I actually think that the trend, and I'm hearing so many people talk about it over here, is the let's go back to basics of basic simple travel without a digital influence, are the things that we as adults and our kids will remember way more than any Facebook or TikTok post.

SPEAKER_10 4:50:11

I love everything you just said. I will I love the fact that you are um uh uh very optimistic about the places that are still yet to be explored, and I couldn't agree more because there's so much concern about overtourism and people crowding to the same places uh uh throughout the same times of the year. But there's so many secondary and tertiary destinations around the world that are, you know, this whole idea of destination dupes and like you know, there's islands to explore in the Philippines and Indonesia, and like there's there's so much yet to be explored. And so uh the the there's that, first of all. I do think 10 years from now, we're gonna be talking about a whole list of different destinations that we're not even speaking about today. Oh, we don't even know what they are yet. Yeah, and that excites me a great deal. And the other thing you mentioned that I couldn't uh um uh endorse more is the enthusiasm uh for a non-digital travel experience. I was we did this Agentic AI uh event a couple of weeks ago in Toronto. Um there's a recording of it now that people can listen to out of interest. And the reason I mentioned it is because one of the questions that came up that you can hear in the recording was around the pushback against AI. And I shared uh a thought about uh creating a trip to like travel like it's 1995. And uh I it was uh partially a joke, but obviously partially serious because I know what how special traveling was back then when you you know it was the early days of the internet, but you still had to use a payphone and a long distance phone card, and you were forced to walk into hotels and see if they had availability, and you weren't you know pre-booking anything aside from you're showing up at train stations. And there was it was such an exciting time to be alive and to be traveling. And I think a lot of people still want or would like to travel like that. And sure enough, the line of the night became became let's travel like it's 1995. And it's interesting, here we are a few weeks later at a conference, and it just shows you that's the it's a it's a human desire and a sentiment for put the phone down, be present, it's appreciate your surroundings. And it's um so thank you for sharing your perspective on that. Um, I do want to make sure all of our listeners can connect with you, CD, since I'm sure they'll be intrigued from our conversation, not only in terms of business opportunities for TripAd, but again, just because you are uh uh a great voice of the industry. So, what would be the best way for our listeners to connect with you uh and seek out uh business opportunities with TripAd?

SPEAKER_06 4:52:29

It'll be around six o'clock in the morning. I'll probably have just finished my run and I'm holding a cup of coffee. So if you see a dude like that, it might be me. No, I mean that is true, but um there are a few others like that. Um uh LinkedIn is a great place. Uh C D lasier, so that would be Lima Alpha Zulu Echo Alpha Romeo. That's me on LinkedIn. Um, look up TripAd and you'll find me under there as well. Um, I do travel around quite a bit. I'm always happy to learn. And one thing from my late uh stepdad from the hotel, one thing that he told me um was always learn, don't stop learning. And I think that that is so so so critical. Find a podcast, find someone that is a source of information, um, learn, explore, um, find out more about the world. Um, I know, Dan, I'm literally telling people to listen to your podcast. So if you're already listening, well, there you go. Um, and that's CD Lazier. Um, my email would be at tripad.com. And I look forward to meeting even one more person. That's already one more.

SPEAKER_10 4:53:40

Yeah, that's amazing. Well, wonderful to see you again. Uh, safe travels back after this, and I certainly look forward to see uh keeping in touch and seeing you at the next conference.

SPEAKER_06 4:53:49

Thanks a lot, C D. Thanks, Dan.

Onspot Traveler Care And Duty Of Care

SPEAKER_10 4:53:52

Our next guest is the founder and CEO of Onspot Travel Group, which is based out of LA, but he is actually remote in Rio. What an amazing place to live in the world. We've been chatting over the last couple of days, and I was keen to bring him into the podcast. So, Ben Surso, welcome to Travel Trends. Great to have you with us.

SPEAKER_00 4:54:09

Yeah, thank you, Dan. I'm super excited to be here. Thanks.

SPEAKER_10 4:54:11

And as we were chatting before, you have been to Focus Right in the US before, um, but this is your first time at Focus Right Europe. Um, but before we get into that, tell everyone a bit about Unspot and this company that you built going back to like 2006.

SPEAKER_00 4:54:24

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, exactly. So company is actually turning 20 years old 20 years uh young this year. Um started the OnSpot Travel Group, started with uh a DMC brand, it's called Califun. Um mostly because you know I've been always a big uh fan of the US since my you know childhood. And uh so for yeah, onspot travel group now is composed of uh Califund, so more like marketplace for touring activities uh for the US, B2B. And then OnSpot uh came uh about right a year after that, 2007. So uh OnSpot is pretty much in the business of uh traveler care. Uh we provide traveler care solutions for uh travel brands such as in-destination travel traveler assistance and concierge services and uh some duty of care. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_10 4:55:13

Fantastic. And tell us everyone why you moved to Rio. What an amazing place to live. What and and obviously clarify your accent because you have a wonderful French accent. So give everyone a little bit of background on you, where you're originally from and how you ended up in Rio.

SPEAKER_00 4:55:25

Yeah, thank you. So basically, originally from the Loire Valley, if you're familiar with France, that's where the King's Castles are located. Um worked very early uh for a uh big tour operator, French tour operator, selling the US. And then age 23, I decided, you know, I've been very entrepreneurial my whole life, my whole life, as far as I remember. And age of 23 decided, you know, it was time for me to uh uh leave the company I was uh working for, and I pretty much asked them, hey, I'm gonna start at DMC. Would you be my first clients? You know, I'll I'll leave the company and do you want my bit of my first clients? So pretty much I I started um pretty young in the city of Los Angeles, uh driving uh minivans, and I was offering French-peaking tours of Los Angeles. That's how I you know started. And then uh yeah, um, so that was US for uh almost 15 years, and then uh went to uh Brazil, you know, when COVID hit. My wife being being Brazilian and being from Rio, she's a carioca. Um we decided what that's not a bad place, like you said, to uh to live uh during COVID and you know ended up staying there.

SPEAKER_10 4:56:28

So and good for you. Obviously, that's the uh connection with your wife being from Brazil, but I know people that have moved to Brazil, uh, and people that have moved to uh Latin America, um and and it's amazing how COVID displaced so many of us and the the changes are long term, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:56:45

It's like you know, you move during that time and you've stayed. That's right. Next thing you know, you need to get familiar with the place and then you start making friends there, and then you know, um starting build like build another company there that we're I mean it it makes it makes whole sense now. So we'll see how long we're gonna be there, but I I I can tell you, Rio is a really cool place to live.

SPEAKER_10 4:57:02

Yeah, no doubt. Well, and you know, you have that global perspective growing up in Europe, uh living in uh North America for as long as you have, and then and then I think that's really helpful when it comes to building travel experiences. So to bring us back to where we are here in uh Barcelona for Focus Right Europe, tell us a little bit about what brought you here this year.

SPEAKER_00 4:57:20

So, pretty much um what brought me here is you know to of course network with uh uh very uh talented individuals, you know, getting to understand, you know, the new trends and technology, especially with what's going on with AI right now. Where we're obviously like everybody working uh and you know looking very closely as what what is you know what is being uh done. Um but I guess more importantly, you know, for me it's uh getting brand awareness around what we do at Onspot. Um it's you know, we believe it's more and more uh needed in the age of uh AI. You know, uh you need that layer of trust and um and in-destination assistance is is a very important uh thing, you know, if for brands, you know, to to keep brand loyalty.

SPEAKER_10 4:58:06

Yeah, for sure. And uh given that you've uh experienced focus rights in the US, you know, obviously you know the scale of those. This this conference you know is more like 500 people versus a thousand plus. And we've talked on the podcast, as our listeners would have heard, um, about what actually is special about it being a smaller group of still very high profile uh executives, decision makers. Uh I'd love to hear your perspective on you know your first experience in Focus Right Europe and also what are some of the uh uh insights and takeaways for you this year.

SPEAKER_00 4:58:36

Yeah, thank you. So basically, you know, the only reference I have is the the last one I did in San Diego, right? So a larger scale for sure. Um you know, I would say I mean for me the main the main thing is really being able to talk direct to you know decision makers. So that's that's really really that. Um and you know, when it comes to the the the quality of you know the the panels and you know uh people that I've met here so far, it's it's been you know the same uh standard quality that what I experienced in the US and uh you know that's definitely something that I'll do I keep doing every year, I think.

SPEAKER_10 4:59:11

Yeah, for sure. And now and our listeners have also heard that we're headed to London next year. I mean it'd be uh um uh somewhat sadly beautiful Barcelona and the sunshine and the incredible weather, and so many people have been out running, and you know it's um such an amazing cultural hub. But I'll I love London, so I'm I'm I'm actually thrilled that's the next destination. Um but in terms of on spot, uh, and I just want to make sure all of our listeners, it's onspot.travel if you want to uh be checking out the website as we're having this conversation. I'd love to know Benoit, it's obviously your full and proper name. Um our listeners, I was it's the end of the day we were recording, and I was so struggling at the beginning to say Benoit. So he kindly said, you can just call me Ben. And that's how I got to be used to know. There we go. Having lived in the US, I know that. Benoit, it's hard to pronounce, right? Yeah, well, merci Benoit for that. Um tell us a little bit about what you have planned for OnSpot. What are you know over the next uh six months, so the rest of 2026, what are some of the developments uh and some of the exciting partnership initiatives you guys have underway?

SPEAKER_00 5:00:09

Yeah, so I mean for us it's really you know how to obviously, you know, everybody has the AI word in, you know, like AI is like definitely on the roadmap. Um but for us it's it's uh mostly you know using it to really augment like the our agent. We call them spotters. So we have like a network of travel experts uh around the globe, you know, and we bring that human layer to a uh very AI and tech um discussion right now. But we tend to you know uh forget about the emotions, right? When you when you travel, you travel to connect. So especially when you encounter a problem or you know an issue during disruption, you want to talk to a human too. So we bring both of it. So I guess we're working uh on AI to augment the capacities, uh capabilities of our agents. So what you know, we have several things on the roadmap, but around also duty of care, um, that is an important thing as well, you know, to understand what um the trip disruptions is is happening more and more now. So uh to catch that and pretty much uh be as proactive as we can. So we're really trying to move into a proactive assistance approach and not reactive. That's what we use AI for.

SPEAKER_10 5:01:20

And when I was checking out your website and preparing for a conversation, I can see that you work with travel agencies, tour operators, um, DMCs. Uh for our listeners who are uh looking at whether or not there's a partnership opportunity here. Who what is kind of an ideal client for you? Who do you work with? And tell us about the B2B and B2C side of your business.

SPEAKER_00 5:01:39

Yeah, so we are only B2B. Uh that's you know, we uh uh end up uh serving the final traveler, so we're like a B2B2C, right?

SPEAKER_11 5:01:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:01:46

Uh but uh yeah, ideal, ideal traveler for us. I mean, we're very good. Um main uh client would be you know travel advisors, uh host agencies, um, who wants to pretty much don't want to have to wake up you know in the middle of the night at 2 a.m. to handle uh clients' requests from overseas. You know, this is a big one. Um so we pretty much you know offer that uh uh trust uh in-destination. So we're an extension of basically travel uh advisors and travel agencies to make sure they you know give the best service to their clients. Um so so that yeah, and mostly FITs and I would say advisors that are looking to work with different uh in-destinations providers. If you work with like one DMC, usually the DMC tend to do that work, you know. But as the travel gets more and more fragmented, you know, uh if you use a lot of different suppliers, we're more like the go-to contact for the travelers in the destination, and we report live to you. And you know, we have a lot of tools and analytics for you to understand what's happening uh for your clients overseas.

SPEAKER_10 5:02:51

Given your work with travel advisors, I've got two more questions for you, Benwise. One I'm keen to ask you is and uh this has come up over the course of the podcast because our theme is travel trends, and really what that means is trying to separate the signal from the noise and help our listeners pay attention to what's gonna be most meaningful for their business. So, travel advisors, we actually haven't talked about in any detail in this particular event spotlight. And given you have them as a uh client profile, I would love if you wouldn't mind sharing what do you think is going to be most important for them to be focused on over the next six to twelve months? What is one of the big trends that you're looking at or you're seeing um that would be worth them paying attention to?

SPEAKER_00 5:03:30

Uh yeah, that's a great question. So, well, something that I'm um, you know, it's uh they talk about this here as well. I mean, part of what we do is also there's this uh concierge uh layer component into it. And travelers are really um expecting fast um recommendations, answer, you know, and uh they book more and more last minute. So the all the in-destination um aspect of things is is very important to uh pretty much create like um a great brand um reputation. Um so be being able pretty much pretty much to vet and uh filter the right uh experiences for that right type of traveler is very important in destination. So we help with that. I think this is a great opportunity uh to do additional you know revenue. Um and you know, we we have a lot of different um options. Like I said, uh duty of care also is something in the um is very big in the corporate travel, um, business travel, but when it comes to leisure, which is our main you know, FITs, it's it's also something that I think is is very important and is really over you know um overlooked.

SPEAKER_10 5:04:42

Yeah, and uh given I've I mean mentioned the website, uh I know you're active on LinkedIn as well. We were it turns out we were already connected before uh it's amazing the way that works because then you also want to go down a rabbit hole to be like, wait a second, when were we connected? How did that work? Um but I won't I won't go down that rabbit hole now, but it was cool to see that we actually already were uh connected. So um what would be the best ways for our listeners to reach out to you, Ben, directly or to engage with the Unspot team for opportunities following this podcast?

SPEAKER_00 5:05:10

Yeah, of course. I mean, you know, with the website, obviously we have a contact, you know, uh form here. Uh so unspot.travel and then uh you know Benoit, B-E-N-O-I-T at onspot.travel. Uh and yeah, and we'll we'll you know we'll we'll talk about you know your needs and how you can uh pretty much deploy uh a you know a turnkey, I would say, concierge, white label concierge, and assistant service for your travelers um in destination.

SPEAKER_10 5:05:36

So that's great. Well, thank you again for joining us. It was great to meet you here, Ben. And uh safe travels back to Rio. We look forward to keeping in touch. Yeah, thank you, Dan.

Vio Rethinks Hotel Booking Value

SPEAKER_10 5:05:47

Our next guest is Oz Har Adir, and he's the founder and CEO of Vio. VO.com. He's based in Amsterdam, and he's here to join us today at Barcelona for FocusRight, which he is a veteran of. So, Oz, welcome to Travel Trends. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 5:06:01

Thanks for having me then.

SPEAKER_10 5:06:02

For sure. Tell everyone about Vio. I was not familiar with VO.com. Give every background about who you guys are and what you do.

SPEAKER_02 5:06:09

Well, so we built an hotel booking marketplace, um, and we built it in a way that we thought, okay, I want to build a platform where customers don't have to look any further. And any way for them to save money on travel, well, we are gonna find it, uh bring it to production, make it uh make it a beautiful experience for them. So it started as a hotel price comparison, like the other guys you might know. Then we built an OTA into it, which basically meant that the cheapest prices is something that we can uh usually offer under our own brand. And then we started doing all kinds of fun stuff like allowing customers to build split booking. So, for instance, if we find a better rate uh that combines two different rooms, we'll do that for you automatically, or freeze, they can take an option on the room and we will even uh rebook it for them if the price drops. So, any way that a customer can you know save on travel, they will find out on V. That's the platform.

SPEAKER_10 5:07:05

Yeah, the one thing I found fascinating as I was uh getting a chance to meet Oz and get to know him is the the fact that the price drop. I didn't even realize that this option existed. So if you book a hotel for 315 and it drops 270, it's one of the things you protect your customers with. And that is one of the things that's so frustrating about travel is dynamic pricing and trying to figure out when to book. And companies like Hopper sprung up just for this exact purpose to try and help people understand when to purchase your flights or or hotels, but specifically in their instance, flights. Um give everyone a bit of background on this on VO itself um and your role in the industry, because obviously this has been around like you've been this is like your 15th focus, right? Right?

SPEAKER_02 5:07:47

So so I've I've been around for a while. So so you have to imagine we we took the most um let's say uncommon path you could do. So we started as in uh white label affiliate of uh hotels combined, Australia and guys eventually saw. to to kayak in 2018. And as they were selling to kayak, we were just living and setting up our own uh our own standalone uh business and um moving away from a task command, building our own meta. But the goal was actually not to build a meta. The goal was to build a market dynamic marketplace where uh an OTA is quite dominant in it, helps build retention, helps drive um more advanced features. And that's basically why that time we left that uh that business model. So we started as an affiliate um you know you've got a marketing company who are you really uh and uh and by now I think we've got I would say probably the most innovative product in the accommodation space today. So um and that was always the vision but it's just not very common that companies do it. And what's also not so common is that they do it without ever raising funding. So you know when guys do funding well you're gonna hear a lot about them because they need somebody to invest in them. But when they're bootstrapped you're not going to hear about them so much because you know they're too busy building a business and they don't need to tell everybody what they're gonna do.

SPEAKER_10 5:09:00

Yeah. Well that's something I found really interesting and one of the reasons I was keen to have you on this event Spotlight was because we've only, you know, I think we've passed like Ships in the night at various other conferences. We know each other but only so well. I've not been overly familiar with VO.com and what you guys do and I was amazed to see you know the company's been around more than 10 years so I was keen to get that that context and one of the things that you you pointed out is that for travelers who are you know on a budget which most travelers are having some of these solutions like freeze split price like the comparison this is incredibly valuable for travelers and this is again like a real hook to get people engaged. And then you guys also work with a number of high profile partners Kiwi, Holiday Pirates, uh and also my uh good friends over at Stay22, a Canadian company based in Montreal um who um and and and they're one of the most innovative companies I would say in the space they just raised over $120 million like investors that are backing that they're going to be you know continue to grow at an incredible scale. So you've got some great partnerships. So take us a little bit through where the business is today.

SPEAKER_02 5:10:05

So so what what we do today is um on one hand you've got the VO's brand itself you know you've got our app that is uh you know downloaded more than five million times and uh our own brand that does millions of bookings a year so that's on one hand and on the other hand um we're doing uh we have a partnership program uh called Vio Power Solutions where you know there's another Canadian company even uh even better known Super which is uh which has been a partner of us for for more than a year and a half on the on the affiliate program uh for example so different um companies are gonna use us differently so sometimes they'll use uh super for instance we'll use they'll take the comparison offer we will offer so they will show expedious prices or bookings prices or VS prices next to super on their accommodation page and with that they'll help people uh know uh when they have a good deal and uh they'll build trust on that but if they don't want to book with them well they're gonna click around they're gonna go to one of the uh the OTAs book there and super gonna get a commission so that's a way that that many folks use us um they may use us for a white label so for instance kiwi does that they take the view product they run it as a pure OTA product as a white label um we do all the all the mess behind we charge the customer we do the customer support we build a I think a beautiful platform um and that but that's just a white label uh that runs under the Kiwi brand name so you got that as well so it's very cool folks use it differently yeah yeah this is why I'm intrigued about all the different ways that uh not only consumers can work with you but also partners as well which is a key reason that we're here at the Focus Right conference in Europe is the all the partnership opportunities. So given you have an extensive background of attending Focus Right conferences tell us a little bit about what brought you here to Focus Right Europe this year and how the event's been for you well what brought me was a KLM flight but the um I I I usually come for nice one didn't no one's done that yet it's just like yeah you know it's uh it's one of those uh uh dad jokes my my my my kids would say um and um and what I love about Focus Right is people come uh to network they come to the business they're open minded and in general business events is that's what we're supposed to do you know so I myself definitely not come here to meet all kinds of payment companies and so on but still some of them manage to catch me uh at the bar uh and uh and and and show me how we can save 0.1% if we just did a hundred different things and um and that's that's also part of it you know and then again I'm slightly open-minded at the bar uh for such pitches um but but travel is all about is all is all about partnerships and um and you know in the in a day to day you know if somebody sends each other email or let's jump on a talk and let's you know let's figure out if we can do some business together it's very hard to find a headspace for it you're not in my OKRs it's not you know it wasn't something I wanted to do. But when you come to an event it's you know there's a couple of moments a year where you um where you basically you know let's let dance hear what you guys actually have to do or let me tell you my deepest problem and see if you can actually solve that versus you know the thing that you you showed me on your uh on your brochure and uh and and for that I think focus right is an amazing stage. You know what I love about the conference and especially like the US one um I like it that we have the same hotel usually and you know you end up having a lot of fun conversations around uh in the breakfast or in the dinner of meeting somebody by the pool if they end up going there like me. But uh but the event itself is also uh is also effective there is enough networking uh space that uh that you're gonna run into anybody you uh uh you may want to meet and you're gonna also get introduced to you know via via uh if you know your way around here people are gonna introduce you all the time so I I I like that dynamism and I think it's very special in travel. Not every industry has that that people by definition know that they're gonna have to work with with a lot of other partners uh and they're very open-minded to do it and there's a lot of you know send your bread uh uh down the water that I'm thinking I liked your um weighing up the ROI on a 0.001% for doing and doing a hundred things it's a funny way to look at it but the one thing uh there are certainly a number of payment companies here so that really made me laugh but um and this is part of the ecosystem of travel is that you know there's uh real opportunities for them here so clearly um they're on the march and they're doing their pitches and they're realizing opportunities um what are some of the other benefits you've seen of being here this year I mean and I'm very curious to know uh how you balance your time at a conference like this between the networking opportunities and networking obviously is another word euphemism for bar time um but also between those uh opportunities and the main stages breakouts um has there been anything that's really stood out to you from any of the content sessions well sadly the way I do these events um is I I watch the content later on video right I I barely enter the main stage for the content uh it wasn't always like that and actually I think it was 2014 in Los Angeles where I vividly remember Focus Right at the time I was mostly a listener I didn't have almost any business to do with anybody I was a small white label operator I didn't need any of the any of the opportunities so I really came to listen and we had the founder and the CEO of Tunar and the founder and CEO of uh uh Citrip Ted Evers and um and both of them were were pitching one were one after the other on main stage and I say pitching because they had slide decks about a hundred uh slides each and they were going for through uh tons of content in 20 minutes time and you know I just looked and I thought okay one of these guys is going to win China I don't know who right and on the other hand you could see the Western CEOs being interviewed sitting uh if all comfortably on the sofa being asked some softball questions relatively speaking and you could see the mentality differences between those you know founders working very hard have a lot to prove in a very competitive ecosystem versus you know the Western CEOs that by time by that time have won basically their positions um in the in in the industry and I thought the contrast was beautiful and I thought uh and then I thought also the content was super interesting and I had so much to learn uh so then I really wanted to be in the crowd now I'm mostly watching later on on video.

SPEAKER_10 5:15:57

Yeah yeah no and I I mean that's become my reality as well since I'm recording because I love the content it was always what actually uh I looked forward to most. So similar to you that's exactly how I started coming to these conferences. And you know you gradually start knowing more people and then you start realizing more business opportunities for the networking. And yeah I mean the networking alone is uh enough for a reason to come to these conferences so um I'd love to know in terms of where to from here for VO as you you know wrap up at the conference and head back to Amsterdam. What are your plans with the platform and what are some of the developments that our listeners might be interested in uh that VO is going to introduce over the course of the year.

SPEAKER_02 5:16:37

Right. So I mean on on one hand I think this is uh probably the year of AI for everybody you know I I hate mentioning it uh too much but you know as I as I'm here my my product team is is basically building their product roadmap on how we can basically use uh new technologies like AI to uh you know to enhance the the product experience so so that is obviously a thing you know we are not gonna be able to stay with interfaces the way they have been uh you know that that that's not that's not happening you're gonna see I think every travel platform uh evolve from the you know relatively static you know here's our usual filters here's the usual hotel list here's the usual content we're gonna show you and into allowing users to bring input that is much more specific needing on the other hand to uh to process that input and to and to quickly give people personalized results uh so you're gonna see VS product itself evolve in that way and I think uh and I think you can see everybody in the industry having to do it or be you know left a little bit by the the the the the the side uh of the road right these uh big LLM platforms yeah for sure exactly and well I've got one other question for you and I want to make sure people can uh follow up and connect with you one of the questions I've been asking guests on this podcast is that you know when we think forward uh a year from now and I know that's a long time in uh uh age of AI um you know we'll uh definitely see each other most likely over the course of the year uh at the US conference for sure but between being here in Barcelona and being in London next year what would do you think is one of the themes that our listeners should be paying attention to and specifically what is something that will be top of mind a year from now at the London conference what's one of the things you think will carry over from this that you anticipate us talking about or focusing on then I mean here in Europe one of the things that's very strong in everybody's mind is sovereignty right now tech sovereignty in the as in you know the the moment you know we we're talking right now on the 17th um of June on you know uh just five days ago Anthropic had to close their uh you know latest model for um for non-US uh companies so they uh or non-US users so they ended up closing it entirely and and I know that let's let's say in the Netherlands tech system uh ecosystem I think all around Europe people are very worried about that fact so you know in travel we almost don't care where anybody is from anybody you know as a as a person and any companies from and um and we all partner with everybody globally um but uh there is now a very strong uh uh a tide wave in that in that regard and I think it will become public center stage so we are either going to see uh that there is a lot more regionalization in that regard and that let's say companies are trying to buy more more in their own region uh or we're gonna see that it passed because um let's say we would we are gonna have much more uh uh tech is gonna catch up that it the the big let's say platforms in LLM case are not gonna have such an advantage that they currently have.

SPEAKER_10 5:19:26

Yeah that's a really interesting perspective I'm glad you shared that. So um that's certainly something that everyone should be paying attention to it would be interesting to see how that uh plays out over the course of the year and comes into next year's conference. But given that you are someone that's very much in the know and leading a uh a large uh travel business here in Europe um I'm sure many of our listeners might want to reach out or connect with you what would be the best ways to do that?

SPEAKER_02 5:19:49

I think LinkedIn is uh is is is is the right is the right tool for that right so it is uh you know if you look at up my name Ozveer you're gonna find it on LinkedIn quite uh quite easily and uh uh and that that would be the best uh the

Maya Agents For Travel Operations

SPEAKER_02 5:20:03

best way to go.

SPEAKER_10 5:20:03

Fantastic well great to meet you and get this time together here and uh wish you uh safe travels home and look forward to keeping in touch beautiful thanks for having me then our next guest is the AI lead for Maya and Maya actually was a big part of our agentic AI series on the Travel Trends podcast you met Ben Manzi who's been a great supporter of uh the travel trends podcast and is doing some really innovative things in this space and I was really keen to meet the rest of his team and I now have the privilege to be able to sit down uh with Amy Santos rather than Ben Ben's great but I was like no today it's Amy's turn to be on the podcast something different today.

SPEAKER_03 5:20:45

So Amy welcome to Travel Trends thank you very much Dan it's great to be here I've been listening to the podcast for some time so it's very exciting to to talk and also in a such an exciting place as well. So thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_10 5:20:58

No I'm thrilled to have you and I was actually um gonna thank you when I uh pulled up your LinkedIn profile I was like you follow travel trends yay I was like um but tell everyone about Maya first for anyone listening to this that's not familiar with uh your company and what you guys do.

SPEAKER_03 5:21:12

Perfect I'll give a little introduction so basically at Maya what we have done is developed AI agents specifically designed for travel companies. So think everything OTAs travel agencies tour operators and DMCs and we basically help them automate all these very repetitive tasks that they have on their everydays. One of those being for example communication flows so from having an AI agent on their website that chats with all users from discovery recommendations and pre-booking and postbooking to also moving to other social media channels or communication channels and basically supporting both to the end user and internally.

SPEAKER_10 5:21:48

Very cool. And your role there obviously is is um given these clients that you have that are coming to Maya looking for opportunities to better understand agentic AI and how they can incorporate into their business tell everyone a little bit more about your role.

SPEAKER_03 5:22:03

Yes so my specific role at Maya is of course supporting all the possible clients and all the clients to really develop this AI roadmap connected to all the capabilities that Maya has and the AI. So really helping them understand what fits best depending on their needs, what are their goals long term and then matching these and supporting them also in the personalization of their AI.

SPEAKER_10 5:22:27

Awesome and I was going to encourage all of our listeners to that um not only listen to the agentic AI series but specifically the one with Ben Manzi on the episode because it is really fascinating to understand more about Maya the business that uh Ben, Amy and the team have been building because I know how rapidly your company is growing now the number of clients you're taking on you work with tour operators and it's like there's so many different verticals. Which brings us to my next question which is what you guys are doing here. I know you've got a booth you guys have been busy over the last couple of days tell us what brought you guys to Focus Right Europe.

SPEAKER_03 5:22:59

Yes so a big part of us being here it's of course everything that has to do with connecting with people right so uh focusrite europe is a great event to meet other people meet really high level also uh executives and really connect over the strategic part of AI and also of course um being so close together with the FocusRite team also they having their own AI agent powered by Maya is a big part of this and also supporting them and yeah after all connecting with people sharing what we're doing and um yes.

SPEAKER_10 5:23:34

And so I know you work with tour operators and where I'm going with this next question is to uh better stand for our listeners like our global listeners that are tuning into this to understand what happened here at Focus Right. MayaTravel.ai is the website and you guys are the AI agent for travel companies and this is where I mentioned that it's not uh no longer specific to one particular vertical what has been the interest here what have been some of the companies and where are you guys looking to expand next?

SPEAKER_03 5:24:03

Yes so we have a big focus on of course continue the expansion in in Europe so we have a big base of customers here and people already uh using Maya uh a lot but of course being here also helps us expand more into the US where we also have some leading companies there and then also uh a lot in Latin America moving quite fast and also being here I mean of course listening to all the different conferences and all the different insights it's also uh brings a lot of value of course yeah so it's great to see you I know Ben has been at the Focus Right conferences in the US and um but this conference you guys actually have taken the the booth space you guys have been with the company a little more than a year this is your first focus right conference.

SPEAKER_10 5:24:44

Indeed that's correct and I always love to ask this question because I'm a huge fan of Focus Right. All of our listeners know that I love coming to this conference and it's I consider a conference like this a real privilege to come to and and part of the reason we created the these event spotlights was to allow our global listeners the opportunity to get access to the information and the leading voices that come together for a conference like this. And I'd love to ask you Amy from your perspective the first time being here what are some of the insights takeaways like what have been some of the benefits being here I know you've probably been at your booth a lot of the time partnerships but I'm not sure if you have a chance to attend any sessions or yeah tell us a bit how your experience has been yes actually so many highlights in so little time it's uh incredible to be honest indeed to be here very grateful and to be in such an amazing city as well.

SPEAKER_03 5:25:33

Some of the main highlights that I was uh literally just talking about it now it's the fact that people come here indeed to really share to to understand what other companies are doing and really uh basically talk over their strategies and it's very uh interesting to see how in spaces of where just everyone gathering in the coffee space and then you start chatting with someone all the networking spaces that feel quite informal but are quite valuable have been definitely a huge highlight. And also uh indeed I have been able to attend to some conferences and I think it's always very interesting to listen to the other startups seeing their pitches seeing the new ideas coming up and then also seeing how then yeah the future of travel will be I think that's very alive here. I listened to a conference today where they exactly mentioned this like you know there's still so many unknown things and it's rather really understanding what the end traveler wants at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_10 5:26:28

Like where where are we willing to adjust and where not and then companies like us and others are going to follow this right so really the the human trend basically totally well let's pick up on that point Amy because that's actually a really good segue to the topic I always like to discuss which is some of the trends that you're seeing so now that people understand more about Maya, your backstory what brings you to the conference I'd love for you to share some of the trends that you're paying attention to yes perfectly so to be honest something that I feel very uh closely to it's of course my Gen C vibes and the and the Gen C atmosphere that I surround myself with.

SPEAKER_03 5:27:03

And I think a huge trend that I see it's of course these um growing demographic of Gen C people traveling really going out there doing solo traveling and how they use AI. So I see it every day with my friends and myself how I power my my travels with not only LLMs but indeed with uh direct chats from companies that we already trust and we already know so that's uh it's been an incredible way to see in this something also that caught my attention quite a lot it's of course this new um trend of course letting the agent book for all of us I think that's something that been has been a topic quite a lot today um and indeed of course seeing how people that are leading in these industries there's still some hesitation sometimes you know like some people are like okay perhaps I'm still a bit conservative between a six or a seven in order to uh let the AI agent book for me and some others really with um high ideas and and high uh standards for this so it's really interesting to see where all of this is gonna go all right and here's one other question I'm gonna ask you because this actually since it is your first focus right conference and if we fast forward to London 2027 to the next focus right conference what do you think we're gonna be talking about what is one of the uh the main themes do you think of that next conference? Yes I think a big theme is gonna be surrounded about trust so I think we already have the tools and we're already gonna have the technology to really move uh the AI in travel indeed to be more agentic and to take more actions for all of us but I think a big conversation is going to be how do we support uh the end travelers to trust to trust the brands to trust the AI to really um be such an important part of this experience and how we're gonna let the AI handle uh somewhat that is sometimes quite a stressful for many people so everything that has to do with planning um I think that's gonna be indeed a conversation you mentioned about how cool it is to be here in Barcelona obviously we'll be in London next year um you're based in Belgium yes that is correct your background you're actually originally from the Dominican Republic indeed yeah beautiful island I must say so you have a global perspective um what else uh from um in terms of travel um any other highlights from here in Barcelona or what you have planned the rest of the year for uh travel because of the and the reason I asked that is because one of the things that I love about the history is being able to come to amazing places and it reminds us what it's like to be a traveler and why we do what we do and love what we do what we do.

SPEAKER_10 5:29:39

And so if we keep the perspective of a traveler so my that's my question to you and I ask this of almost all our guests on our podcast is like where are you traveling to next?

SPEAKER_03 5:29:48

Yes I love this question because I feel so related indeed I think this sympathetic energy that comes from the industry is because of the fact that we all travel we all connect we all uh I really To understand different cultures and then meet each other. And uh then some of my next travels are gonna be actually going back home for a little bit. So I'm going to the Dominican Republic. Uh, and then I have some plans for my mom to come to Europe and maybe we will go to Egypt. That's still to be decided, but we are uh looking for that. And this year, maybe Panama. That's still to be decided. But uh I think I'll go to Panama and also be with my family there.

SPEAKER_10 5:30:26

Wonderful. Good for you, and I hope that all comes together. Thank you. Nothing better than traveling with family and especially giving parents the opportunity um to be able to see the world and um greatest gift. Yeah, indeed. Um, and let's leave everyone. I mean, I'm gonna mention the website, and so I'm gonna throw a bit of a twist on this question as well. Uh I want to know, I want uh you to kindly share uh how people can follow up with you directly, the team, um, to learn more about uh Maya. Um but the one thing I would that my little twist is this is whenever I go to the Maya website, I always get the chatbot come up. And sometimes I like to play games with chatbots just to see what answers they give. And uh when I interviewed Rafat Ali from Skift, I was using their chatbot and I was asking the questions of the chatbot that I was gonna ask him to see and comparing the two. So I was like, what is the future of Skiff for the next five years? Um so my question to you is this how do people follow up with you? And what would be a good question for them to type into your chatbot?

SPEAKER_03 5:31:19

Oh, that's a great question. Well, for people to follow up and learn more about Maya, you can find my LinkedIn. It's uh E-I-M-Y-A-Santos M. That's my name. And then, of course, following just directly with the uh MayaTravel.ai website, there you can find all the information about the team and indeed just talk to Maya on our own website and she'll really redirect you to the correct place. Um, and then something to ask to Maya is yeah, I think what's the give it uh a little bit of information about your profile and ask what's the best way to help them right now. So direct advice.

SPEAKER_10 5:31:54

All right, I'm gonna give that a go right after. But Amy, it was great to meet you. I uh you know I think so highly of uh Ben and the team, so it's nice to meet the rest of the crew, and I wish you and the uh team at Maya great success the rest of the year and beyond.

SPEAKER_03 5:32:06

Yes, thank you so much. You've been very welcoming, I appreciate it.

Jinko Builds Agent Ready Infrastructure

SPEAKER_10 5:32:12

Our next guest is Sebastian Texier. He's the co-CEO and co-founder of Jinko, and it's gojinko.com. I was keen to get him involved in the podcast because of their unique focus on travel infrastructure and AI. And so I would love to uh get into the conversation with you on this because it's you I know it's your second time here at the Focus Right conference. So, Sebastian, welcome to Travel Trends. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. For sure. So let's talk about GoJinko and Ginko.com. What tell us a bit of background on this company and the business you build?

SPEAKER_01 5:32:46

Yeah, um, well, um, thank you very much. Uh I've been working in this travel industry for a while now. Um, and what has always been uh, in our opinion, uh the blocker uh of the travel distribution is um the difficulty uh to convert uh from search to book, uh basically the look to book ratio. Um so we've built a startup out of this uh in order to aggregate uh six years ago, uh, in order to better distribute the upcoming NDC content uh without stressing too much uh the infrastructure uh from the airlines uh in leisure market essentially, uh, where the conversion ratio are very poor. Um we've eventually been acquired by uh Hopper uh with my co-founders. Uh we led the European expansion for uh for Hopper uh for almost three years uh and since end of 2024 uh we left Hopper uh and we created a new company named GINCO because we are strongly convinced that there will be a shift uh in travel distribution um with flight hotels, all the travel components uh being intermediate uh by agents uh and not directly uh through humans. Uh we can see this shift already with the search, uh, with more and more people relying on LLMs and conversational AI uh when it comes to um get inspiration. Um but we just we believe that we are just uh at the beginning and that from search there will be bookings uh and all the um purchase flow uh that's gonna be managed uh within uh conversational uh AI uh agentic uh ecosystem. Um and for this uh we strongly believe that uh we will have to rebuild uh a complete infrastructure in order to make this to work. And this is probably one of the reasons why it is not ready yet.

SPEAKER_10 5:34:53

Uh well, one of the reasons I was keen to have Sebastian on this event spotlight is because of his background in the travel industry, starting in the aviation. Now you work with Air France and KLM for a number of years, and then the fact you've gone on to be a successful entrepreneur, having uh uh launched and sold uh uh a couple of startups, and specifically uh the um I like some of the branding, not only with Jinko, but uh Mowgli as well, the company that you built that you sold to Hopper. And so you were the general manager of uh Hopper for Europe uh for a few years after that, and then here you are again on the startup path a year in. And so I wanted to share that with our listeners so they had a bit more understanding about your background um and what you're building. So, on that note, I mean uh you've been to this conference before, you're now back with uh the conference again with Jinko. Tell us why you came to Focus Right Europe this year.

SPEAKER_01 5:35:45

Well, uh Focus Right is interesting, of course, because it's where we can meet people, we can see the trend. Um, and what is very interesting is also uh we can um from one year to another one uh we can see the progress. Uh we are in a market that we believe will shift. Um the question is that the the biggest question is not will agent will be managing uh search and booking. Uh the question is how long do we take how long will it take uh to come to that point? And that's very interesting, and that's why I came back last year. Um people were I would say very um unfamiliar with concepts like MCPs, for example. Uh at that time, a year ago, we had built our first uh hotel MCP, allowing people to search and book hotels um on cloud at that time, and we were really kind of um aliens uh speaking about uh MCPs. Now, one year later, um people are convinced that AI uh will play uh an important role uh in distribution, that agents uh will act on behalf of humans when it comes to make bookings. Um so that's also the reason, and to of course, to to meet people, to share views, to understand what are the trends and um and of course whom we can partner with uh to provide this agentic experience and distribution.

SPEAKER_10 5:37:17

Of course, you're based in Paris, so you have a uh a good understanding of the European market, and here we are in in Barcelona, and uh I'm keen to ask you a little bit about the European tech scene, especially as it relates to AI, because it is quite different than what's happening in the US. Um before we get into that, tell us a little bit about what I mean, we're having this conversation just for our listeners towards the end of the third official day, second day, depending on how you look at it, since they added day one on the Middle East with web and uh travel. But I would love to hear some of your observations. Having been here last year and being back again this year, what has been some of the uh beneficial sessions, some of the takeaways for uh for you and the team?

SPEAKER_01 5:37:58

Um the trends that uh focus right could provide um the round tables. Uh we really see that now uh people are considering uh AI uh not only as a shopping uh uh tool, uh, but eventually uh a place where all the purchase flow will happen, uh from search to booking and eventually uh post-booking operations. Um so yeah, this is it.

SPEAKER_10 5:38:27

That's great. And then let's talk about European tech scene, because it is quite different than what's happening in North America. And you occasionally hear uh glimpses of the investments in some of the AI startups. You're based in Paris, and you know, when I think about both uh Spain and France, uh two big hubs for uh tech talent uh and investment in in travel startups, and it's really interesting because uh Europe has overtaken the US in terms of investment in travel technology startups, and we're seeing a lot of tech we're saw a lot of travel companies, not just technology companies, um, that are expanding out of Europe uh globally. So there's something special going on here. What's your take on that, given you've been in Europe for many years, you've been in the travel space. Um why do you think Europe is uh experiencing such a renaissance at the moment?

SPEAKER_01 5:39:18

Um I can't answer this question. We uh well I I agree with you with the fact that um we need to expand. Uh and we we are based in Paris, but we consider ourselves as a global company. Uh even though we are small, uh the market is global. Uh we have a strong focus on the US market, and basically our first customers uh who are builders, uh agent builders, um are in the US. Uh so we are located in Europe um because this is where we we used to work. Um but we target the US market as the first market, and eventually we might be moving uh probably to the US at some point.

SPEAKER_10 5:40:02

Interesting. Okay, so tell me a bit more about that, because obviously that's uh you know, um tell well on that note, tell us a little bit more about where you, you know, this platform, you were in stealth for seven months and you unrolled this technology, you've been uh I guess kind of live and public uh for a year. Um tell us a little bit more about how this business is scaling and why you would then consider moving to the US.

SPEAKER_01 5:40:25

Well, we again um we believe that our customers will be agents, uh AI agents. Um and so the question then is where are these agents? And today um most of the agents are provided or built. Um it could be either through people, uh individual people who want to build their individual agent and they want their individual agent to um manage travel. It could be also um agent platform uh to allow people to build easily uh open claw-like agents but in a more uh easy way, secured way. Um or it could be also um big tech players who want to integrate uh in their agentic uh product uh travel. And if you consider all these players, all these segments, uh most of them are US-based. Um so that's why, and and by the way, of course, it's the largest market, um, and we have the technology that is compliant uh with what the US um consumer builders companies uh want uh when it comes to distribute travel uh through an agent.

SPEAKER_10 5:41:42

And so yeah, I know you have a background in flights, and you've built out um the platform for flights for hotels, but my understanding is that you're planning to move into activities, which is obviously uh uh especially big in the US market, um, trains as well. So tell us about what your plans are over the next six months with the platform.

SPEAKER_01 5:42:02

So um what we believe at some point is that um uh agentic distribution when it comes to travel is a new way um of digitalization of the travel agent, uh the former uh physical travel agent. Um I believe that um uh internet was the first wave of digitalization, but it has been digitalized in a do-it-yourself way. Uh, internet provided information uh for you and me to uh discover, get inspiration, consider uh a destination, um, and eventually uh do a transaction uh on an OTA. Um we believe that today um and the consequence of this is that you were doing uh as you were the travel agent, you were purchased purchasing a flight, a hotel, and eventually and maybe potentially an activity. Um but now with the AI agent I think we get back to what was a real travel agent uh but done online. And the consequence of this is that we are moving upward in the funnel. Um and people are basically when it comes to travel, they are not looking for a flight and then a hotel. They're just looking for a trip. Um, and of course, uh we most likely will have to be able to answer to the question, where shall I, not where shall I fly, or give me the best price for a flight from Paris to New York. The question will be where shall I go on vacation? Where should I go on vacation with my family for under $2,000 this summer in Europe, for example, for an American citizen. Um, and then you need uh to have and to combine uh the flight inventory, the hotel inventory, and to be able to provide the flight offer, uh, I mean a trip, a complete trip offer.

SPEAKER_10 5:43:57

Yeah, and it's an exciting time to be in this space. And I think when we look at companies like Nuite that are focused on the infrastructure side of travel, a lot of investors uh have said to me and on our podcast that they're very much interested in investing in the plumbing of travel, and that's where the real opportunity is, is in the infrastructure and the connectivity. And what I find particularly fascinating about the business you've built, and clearly obviously you know your stuff from your background in travel and technology, is that you've built this for agents. And you were very clear when you uh uh started explaining, uh Jinko, that that's you know, you've built the travel infrastructure for agents. One of the things I'd love to ask you for all of our listeners that are still wrapping their head around uh the pace of change with AI, is that preparing your business, whether or preparing um for a world where agents are actually the primary users of your website, for example, that's a big topic of conversation today. Um, what should travel companies, travel agents, travel advisors listening to this, what they should what should they be paying attention to, what should they be aware of? Um what should keep them up at night? Um what what are the big opportunities?

SPEAKER_01 5:45:04

Uh I believe um whatever will be the distribution channel in travel, uh, because there are several uh distribution channels, um, there would be an agent somewhere. Uh and when I'm saying this, I say that okay, um you can have an agent provided by LLMs uh that provide a full um shopping uh and booking experience. Um but you also, on the other hand, um on the other side of the spectrum, uh you will still have people that will be willing to sell travel, such as travel advisor. Uh, but even travel advisor may will need uh an agent uh to prepare uh their offer uh to gain in terms of efficiency. Um I'm I I'm a believer that more and more people will rely on an AI agent uh when it will come to make a booking, uh, and they will delegate uh to their agent um the act uh of making a booking. But I also believe uh that other people will still rely on a human because of the trust uh uh they have in this human experience for such uh trip. That said, uh these uh humans will need to be efficient, uh, and they will need also agents that are able to search to benchmark travel offer in order to help uh the agent to provide the best offer to their end customer. So eventually you will have agent everywhere.

SPEAKER_10 5:46:40

Yeah, and that's that's certainly um my view, and I think a lot of um uh people working in technology and travel is that you know, as AgenTic proves its capabilities, the question becomes what you said is trust. And when will people trust AgenTic to make the booking? I've seen some great demos from companies like Lufthansa showcasing their technology for being able to book a flight in 90 seconds with voice only. And I love that idea. The question is, are people gonna trust it and when will they start using it? Um so it's great that the technology is there, and this is the the next kind of stage that we're in, which is really exciting. Um so on that note, I know I've mentioned Gojinko.com. Uh I want to make sure all of our listeners, if they want to connect with you and the team after this, what would be the best ways for them to do that? For them to do what? To reach out and connect with you or the team.

SPEAKER_01 5:47:28

To connect with you with us as a team, they can go through GoJinko, of course, Gojinko.com. Uh they can connect me directly uh to me uh through LinkedIn. Um fantastic.

SPEAKER_10 5:47:42

Well, uh uh Sebastian, it's great to meet you. Um uh merci beaucoup, thank you for your uh bon chance. My pleasure, thank you. Good luck to you and the team in the next year ahead. Yeah, my pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 5:47:51

Thank you.

Vola Launches AI First Hotels

SPEAKER_10 5:47:53

Our next guest is Mate Sata, and he is the chief AI and growth officer at Vola. Mate, welcome to Travel Trends. Great to have you with us. Pleasure to be here. First of all, tell everyone about Vola. So it's Vola.ro, which is a Romanian domain name. Tell everyone about Vola.ro and what you guys do.

SPEAKER_23 5:48:12

Yeah, so we're actually a group of brands. Um the uh the biggest brand is called Vola, and the RO domain does stand for Romania because uh a lot of the company is Romanian and we're a market leader in Romania, but we have other brands as well. We've been around for almost 20 years now, one of the first OTAs in uh Central Eastern Europe. Um our second biggest brand is called Fru. Uh, it's one of the top OTAs in in Poland uh because our development team and uh the other core office is in is in Poland. Um and we also launched uh Bulgaria uh about a year ago. Uh have been focusing a lot on our app growth over the past year as well. Uh and we're also a market leader in a in a smaller Romania adjacent market, which is the Republic of Moldavia, uh, but we consider it a single market because historically speaking, you were kind of the same guys. So yeah.

SPEAKER_10 5:49:04

And you also have a background in this industry. Tell us a little bit more about how you got into this space, especially when you're the chief AI officer for a company. Tell us a bit more about your background.

SPEAKER_23 5:49:14

Yeah, so I'm um I'm a recently new figure to travel, I would say specifically. Uh my background is mostly growth. I've been doing growth for the past uh 16, 17 years now. Um started working for Vola in 2017 initially um as the head of marketing. I um I then got funded for my own startup that was in B2B advertising tech, so one related to travel, although we had a lot of travel clients, uh, which I scaled to the uh to the US over the past seven, eight years, uh partially exited it last year, and started working together with Vola again after they got got acquired by a Polish private equity fund called uh Resource Partners.

SPEAKER_10 5:49:54

Very interesting. And then tell us a little bit what brought you to focus right since it's your first year.

SPEAKER_23 5:49:59

Well, because we're focusing a lot on our international expansion and our uh uh our AI product suite. I wanted to get to meet other people with more kind of experience in the industry and see what ways uh we can work together and what other what other OTAs are doing, what other partners are doing. So it's an interesting way to kind of get your um a finger on the pulse of the of the industry, you know, see what people are working on for real.

SPEAKER_10 5:50:24

Fantastic. That's great. And uh what has been your uh observations for your very first time at FocusRite?

SPEAKER_23 5:50:31

Well, it's super uh there's a lot of value in both the uh both the conversations, uh, but especially the people that you meet. There's obviously a heavy focus on AI, everything is AI native or AI adjacent, at least uh at least on paper. Um and I I I still I feel there's a lot of focus on trying to figure out how we actually tap into consumer demand, which seems to be the biggest problem. Uh, there's a lot of capital going around AI. I was just uh talking to uh Stanislav from Revolut, who sold his AI uh to travel startup to Revolut. Um and it's interesting how there's a lot of money, um, money there, but we don't necessarily see the way to capture consumer demand right now. We've managed to do a lot of interesting stuff within the app ecosystem to move people towards the app and towards AI features, but it's still not at the scale that you'd expect considering the amount of capital that's moving around AI. So my point is we we're still early, I think, in this uh AI race for in travel at least.

SPEAKER_10 5:51:30

Well, tell us a little bit how you guys are approaching AI at Vola and what some of the integrations, what are some of the uh the use cases?

SPEAKER_23 5:51:37

So it's interesting. First of all, um we're doing uh we're doing it very consumer facing. So we've done it already in terms of uh um automatizing a lot of our internal ops, uh customer service, uh making life easier for our data analysts, for our admin team. Uh, but we started using it consumer facing very early. So we uh we're mostly a flight OTA right now, and historically we've Been flight focused. The initial application was the one that pretty much everyone is doing now, which is giving a conversational layer to search, right? And focusing more on inspiration and more flexible type of queries rather than from two, you know, two adults, baggage, no baggage. And that worked really well. We managed to get a lot of power users, and about 20% of the people who use our app right now use AI for booking. But we're also adding new verticals, and we are it's interesting because we're starting them from an AI perspective, right? So we're not just adding the AI layer on top of an existing business, we're building a new vertical from the ground up with AI. So, for example, by the time this launches, uh it will be it will be public, so I can say it. So we're launching hotels, which we uh which we've done very fractionally for uh for a while, but we didn't really invest in it. And we're launching hotels, but we're not we're doing it AI first. So by that it means we didn't have to reconfigure our entire business and think how can we refactor it with AI, but we actually uh thought about the experience uh AI first. So it was interesting to see. Uh it's definitely different than what you see on other OTAs. Uh, there's fewer options actually rather than more options because we feel that AI is a good fit when it comes to choice paralysis, right? Um, and we'll see how it goes. Like we haven't launched it yet, but we're pretty confident in the experience.

SPEAKER_10 5:53:28

Fantastic. That's exciting. And for our listeners that are trying to wrap their head around AI and how it's impacting the travel industry, it's been a big focus for us at our last two virtual summits. But I'd love to get your take on what are some of the things our listeners should be paying attention to as far as how they should be incorporating AI into their travel businesses.

SPEAKER_23 5:53:47

Well, I I think there's three layers to it. Uh, one is obviously discoverability, that's been a big topic. So um there's definitely more and more people using the most popular uh AI tools to discover search, to discover travel, right? And discover flight options and booking options. So Chat GPT and Claude and Perplexity discoverability is one layer. So if you're trying to get more demand, I would focus on that. Uh the second is on a product perspective, we we notice that there's a significant uptick in conversion rates with for people that use our AI uh tools in the app. So second is if you already have a pretty big user base, try to shift them towards an AI product. And if it's a good AI product, your conversion rate should see I can't share number numbers, but should see a shockingly high uplift if you're doing a good job. Um, and the third is just being more lenient and more efficient with your team because you can do more uh internally by just automating a lot of stuff. We use like we, for example, right now a lot of the a lot of the analysts are doing a lot more, like their output is significantly higher, and we're getting way more insights into what works and what doesn't because we have this internal workflow that uses various AI tools to just make our life more efficient.

SPEAKER_10 5:55:11

What would be the best ways for uh for them to reach out to you or the team for different opportunities?

SPEAKER_23 5:55:16

Uh yeah, website vola, LinkedIn. You can find me on your usual social media platforms. Uh yeah. And Mate Sata.

SPEAKER_10 5:55:25

So it's M-A-T-E-I and then P-S-A-T-T-A. That's correct. Anyone that's uh very keen to reach out to you on LinkedIn. Um, a real pleasure to meet you here. Good luck with the rest of the conference and uh uh wishing you every success with Volo over the next year. Same here. Thank you, Dan. Pleasure.

MessageHelp Omni Channel Guest Messaging

SPEAKER_10 5:55:43

Our next guest is Nina Lakatos, and she heads up business development at MessageHelp. Nina, welcome to Travel Trends. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_05 5:55:51

Yeah, thank you, Dan, so much. Yes, it's a pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_10 5:55:54

Nina, tell us about Message Help and what you guys do.

SPEAKER_05 5:55:57

Okay, so Message Help, it's on channel communication layer which sits on top of the property management system, PMAS, and uh our end client, uh, that's a hotel, hoteliers, so it's a lodges, um uh hotel uh brands, so that's the end client. And uh the idea of message help is connecting the entire guest journey, starting from the pre-arrival during post with integration of AI agent as well in the chat. So, like any messaging platform, let's say for example, WhatsApp, Telegram, Instagram, Viber, Facebook, it's all connected to one omni channel to the property management system, which is the brain of the operation, obviously. And we would like to add some communication layer, right? So uh guests will be able to communicate in the selected channel, let's say WhatsApp, right? So yeah.

SPEAKER_10 5:56:49

So this is actually the very first time I've interviewed someone with the domain name.help. So for our listeners, that's not only is like a company called uh message help, it's actually message.help for those of you who want to follow along. And I uh obviously one of the big categories that's here is hotels and hospitalities. So if I understand correctly, that is your primary focus for clients, is that right? Or do you work across other verticals in travel?

SPEAKER_05 5:57:12

We do work across other verticals as well. So our adjacent uh vertical, it's a beauty medical uh well-being Horica. So that's where we've built it our business already. We've been in the market for four and a half years. So we've done it in MENA, CS, let's say worldwide. So we've have already our business, yeah, and now moving into the hospitality. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 5:57:34

And what is the primary reason? I know uh from looking at your website, boosting revenue, increasing customer loyalty. Um so those are obviously two things that every business for sure wants to do. Um specifically, what are the uh the benefits uh for hotels that use your platform?

SPEAKER_05 5:57:51

So again, obviously that's uh upsell, right? Increase the revenue, uh conversion rate, let's say if um okay, let's say um clients arrive, right? They do the check-in at the station. Yes, they could be offered by the receptionist. You can book the dinner, you can book certain services, you go to the spa, right? But again, if there is a human factor, right? People can forget about it. So if you don't upsell, it doesn't happen. But through the channels, let's say WhatsApp uh open rate, it's 98%. So let's say if you do it in a good timing, let's say based on the hotel, whether it's a small lodge or it's a chain of the hotels, it could be done in certain time based on uh category of the clients before the booking. So let's say two days before, somebody would like to schedule for like one week before, again with AI agent who can jump in a chat and uh upsell, let's say a couple is booking a romantic uh getaway weekend uh in the seashells, right? And like two days before, guys would like to upgrade your room, right? Have a better view, etc. It's happening in the chat. You're like, okay, why not? It's not like you rushed with your suitcase and backpacks, like when you arrived tired of the flight. So it happened right time, right moment, like a few days ago or week before, and the same in this day, right? It can also happen during the well, past the check-in, right? So yeah, upsell can happen any moment, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 5:59:15

And now have you been to the Focus Right conference before?

SPEAKER_05 5:59:17

It's the first one. Oh, very cool.

SPEAKER_10 5:59:18

Okay, awesome. Um so uh first of all, what brought you to the conference? I'm assuming hotels, as I have, but given that there's lots of opportunity in the travel industry. So yeah, first of all, tell us what brought you to the conference.

SPEAKER_05 5:59:30

So exactly. Uh our main uh, let's say, connection and with industry, we target well, we would like to partner with property management systems. So and with them, once the partnership obsolete occurs, we can build the market and we can connect directly to the hotelier world as well. And also we can do our marketing campaign. We already have a few clients, but again, we just like to connect through the property management systems.

SPEAKER_10 5:59:53

Cool. Given it's your very first time at the Focus Right conference, and uh, one of the things I'm always keen to ask, especially first timers, is what has your experience been like? So we're having this conversation towards the end of the conference. What are the the some of the highlights and benefits of being here?

SPEAKER_05 6:00:08

Yeah, so it's definitely easy to connect to the people at such events because uh let's say a travel uh industry, it's all about service, right? Working with people. So it's so much easier to connect during such events in person. It's always a human factor. So um, and also I think mentorship, especially like if you're new, you're stepping into that market. There's like so many great um let's say contacts who can advise you and uh lead you in certain direction as well. So for like upcoming events or somebody might know someone, so it's a very huge kind of in um let's say um benefit of networking. So it's number one, I would say, yeah, definitely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 6:00:48

Yeah, there's amazing networking opportunities. And the the one thing I haven't had a chance to attend is a lot of the sessions. Yeah. Has there been any particular sessions on the main stage or the breakouts that have been particularly interesting?

SPEAKER_05 6:00:58

Oh my god, there's so much happening around AI sector, if you've noticed, right? For sure. So it's like it's moving so fast, it's so diverse, like all company integrates in that, right? And everyone would like to be on the well ahead of the game, but at the same time, uh, I think there should be a solid foundation. What do you build it on? So it's a lot of trial and error. It's like one of the conversations during the AI, let's say, speech. It was like if you have well were given a chance to book your entire stay, hotel, wherever, with AI agent, doing it for you, everything, would you do that? Would you give this power? It was like a 50-50 uh response, right? And you can see by the audience, I would say based on the background age difference as well. So it's kind of like such an interesting split, but like even 50% of people saying yes, I think it just uh it's just yeah, it's beautiful, you know, to see that actually heading this way. And we have to understand it's like trial and error, mistakes will happen, right? You have to test certain theories, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 6:01:57

Well, I mean, especially um given that one of the primary uses for AI is chat bots and how people are going to interact and engage. And so on that note, bringing us back to massage help and what you guys are bringing us back to message help and what you guys are focused on building out. Where to from here? I mean, we're in the middle of 2026, you're heading back to London where you're based. What are the next steps for the business and the platform?

SPEAKER_05 6:02:21

Yeah, exactly. So next step, we're heading back to London, right? And we have another upcoming event and a travel tech show in London. So, yes, a bit more networking. Yeah, yes. Uh, and also we're at the moment in discussion with a few property management systems. So uh I will not expose the names, but yeah, since we've you know signed a contract, it's already out there, so that's the next step. So we can launch and get into the market, yeah, and expand the growth, yeah. That's great.

SPEAKER_10 6:02:50

Well, yeah, and that the property management system is a huge sector, and companies like Muse obviously is you know have been uh disrupting the space because there's lots of room for innovation, but every property has to use some type of system for their reservations, and so um on that note, I want to make sure that all of our listeners know how to connect with you, how to learn more information. Obviously, I've mentioned the website, but tell our listeners the best way to connect with you and the team after this event and podcast episode.

SPEAKER_05 6:03:16

Yeah, perfect, definitely. You can connect with us on our website, www.message.help. Right? So you can connect there, and also you can uh find uh me as well on LinkedIn, uh Nina Lakatos from Message Help, and I'll be yeah, happy to connect with you.

SPEAKER_10 6:03:32

Fantastic. Well, Nina, it's been a real pleasure getting a chance to meet you here at the conference and uh safe travels back to London, and uh look forward to keeping in touch.

SPEAKER_05 6:03:41

Thank you so much, Dan. Yes, it's a wonderful, it's a pleasure meeting you as well. Yeah, perfect. Thank you.

iWander AI Tour Guide And Wrap Up

SPEAKER_10 6:03:48

We now have the very final guest of this special event spotlight from Focus Right Europe in Barcelona. And this particular guest is a great friend of mine, someone I also have collaborated with over many years in the industry. He is the co-founder and CEO of IWander, and he is also a collaborator with our Travel Trends podcast and assists me on uh working on the advisory clients of our business. And he uh was able to join us here at Barcelona, and uh it was a real pleasure to have him over the last couple of days uh helping me out at the booth, but also meeting with uh clients of ours and also showcasing the amazing technology that him and his brother Antoine have built because he is a successful startup entrepreneur that I have the privilege to know and work with. And on that note, Marius Nagond, welcome back to Travel Trends.

SPEAKER_18 6:04:43

Thank you very much, Dan. Thanks a lot. And uh for anyone listening, I don't think you realize just how much work Dan puts into this watching him basically podcast after podcast after podcast, no time for lunch. It's a marathon, it's it's it's quite a sight to behold.

SPEAKER_10 6:04:58

Thank you, Marius. Actually, it's funny you mentioned it because uh in our last two conferences, I brought my son, as you know, uh Oliver, who's training to become a pilot. And a couple weeks before that, I went to another conference and I brought my daughter because they're both on summer holiday from university and I thought perfect intern opportunities for both of them. And they had much the same reaction there like, I had no idea how hard you work and how many hours you put in when you're at uh traveling for work and at conferences. And it was good for them to get that perspective because as most of our listeners know, and I think any of the people that you would have met over the course of this episode, work ethic is is is is everything. Like it's like you know, talent takes you so far, but really you've got to put the effort in, you've got to put the time in, and there's uh the hustle is real. And I love doing this podcast, as you know, Mary. So um for me, uh I get energized from it, but at the same time, after 30 interviews back to back on the 30 minutes, it's amazing when uh someone brings me a coffee or a bite to eat. So um thank you for doing that a couple of times when I've really needed it. Um, but thanks for being a part of this because it was really cool to share it with you. Um one uh tell everyone actually this is uh when we were walking uh back from uh the conference yesterday, um, you were commenting about the number of people that are coming up to us at the booth and asking to be on the podcast. And you made a really insightful observation about product market fit. Yeah. Uh share that with all of our listeners.

SPEAKER_18 6:06:17

Nah, it's just um the first time I've actually been on the travel trends side and gone up to people. And obviously, I'm I'm here with two hats on, my I Wonder hat, the travel trends hat. And then travel trends just having people coming up to your booth asking, you know, to be recorded for spotlight episodes. And I turned around to Dan and said, that's really when you know you've got product market fit when people come to you asking for your product and like you know, not batting an eyelid, like just signing up for spotlight episodes on the on the spot. But yeah, I mean it's worth it.

SPEAKER_10 6:06:45

Yeah, thank you. And I will have we'll definitely be sharing that with Melanie does all our partnerships.

SPEAKER_18 6:06:49

I mean there's more, then you need to convert them. So I don't know, she might have something else to say.

SPEAKER_10 6:06:54

Yeah, exactly. That's the next step is um is is getting any of those uh partnerships over the line. But no, anyway, it's been fantastic having you here. Um, to your point about wearing two hats, the first thing I want everyone to know and us to talk about is I wander, because you know, as an entrepreneur who I knew uh in my uh corporate world, I actually knew Marius from his previous venture, and then uh looked to collaborate with him then and bring him into the group. We've kept in touch over the years, and uh, you know, he really has become uh a good friend of mine. And then when he started iWander, I was very keen to be supportive. So I've come on as a uh as a partner and an investor in iWander. I'm a huge believer in what him and his brother Anton have built. So, first and foremost, he is an entrepreneur that runs that company, and then I'll explain the connection in a moment. But let's focus on iWander, Marius, because you guys are also at a very exciting stage of growth and development, having launched the app in iOS, and everyone here has been hearing about the next development. Even Pete Como kindly asked you to join a session on the first day when he knew you were coming with me to be a part of Travel Trends. He was like, wait a second, Marius is coming. Let's get him on stage on the startup stage. So tell everyone about iWander and this incredible uh AI startup you've built.

SPEAKER_18 6:08:05

Sure. So iWander is an AI travel companion. So think of it almost like your own personal tour guide in your pocket. So it basically helps people discover destinations independently. We use AI in a couple of like really exciting ways. So the first thing is that we have a technology which builds self-guided audio tours on this on the fly, so on the spot. So for any kind of like any traveller in the world, any destination, any neighborhood, any city, you can basically say, I want you know a walking tour focusing on history, architecture, street art around this area, starting right here, uh, and make it last 45 minutes, and we'll go and build that. And uh, whilst you're on the tour as well, it's kind of dynamic, reactive, it that's on the fly. Um, so we've got that, and we've also got personalized recommendations on what to see, what to do, what to eat. So it's really a very holistic travel companion. Um, we initially launched it as a B2B product, B2B2C product. Uh, we launched it within the City Sightseeing app, that's working really well. But I think when we actually saw how people were using it, we wanted to go release that as a standalone product and really push it to the next level, like be closer to the customer.

SPEAKER_10 6:09:12

So let's everyone tell everyone how they can download it, how they can get the access to it, because you're now at that point. Like you are, as far as I'm concerned, at the point of product market fit, and you had that amazing uh partnership as you mentioned with City Sightseeing as you built out the technology. And when I downloaded that app recently, I was like, oh my god, because it's uh it's so the eye wander experience that I've come to know. But you also this platform now can do so much, like it's like that realization that wait a second, you for you and Antoine, and uh you did a great post just recently on LinkedIn. I encourage you guys to check out um uh the website and obviously uh follow the team on on LinkedIn because once you actually see the platform for yourself, you're like, and I I had that like aha moment that was just like your vision has f has been realized. I like this is this is a new beginning for uh for i wonder. So tell everyone how they can get access to download it and what they should be what they should be testing and trying out with it.

SPEAKER_18 6:10:07

Yeah, sure. So uh you can download it on the app store. So on iOS app, Android app coming very soon, uh, by just typing in iWonder and Wonder with an A. People people can sometimes get confused. And to say, you know, to to kind of um address that point about what you can do. I think that's one of the things which we're really testing with right now because the tool is so versatile, whether that's you know, building a walking tour on the fly or downloading a curated tour which was written by a top historian, or even just saying, like, okay, you know, what are the top restaurants around me, or are there any entrance tickets available for the Sagrada Familia this afternoon? Um, it's really versatile, and what we're really playing around with now is that entry point. How can we make customers aware of what they can do? Because we have a funnel, and then what we realise is that people, you know, they start off maybe with a walking tour, and throughout the day they actually start asking questions, they realize it's dynamic. And then the last point there is the is the tickets or the upsells, which is something which we almost focus on on second. And that was actually quite um, it's really on purpose because what we've found is that most travel apps and most travel approaches are very transactional. You know, everyone focuses on that transaction on the booking. Where we really see value and a gap is in the content and the engagement, you know, the sort of content or tools which actually make you stick or stay on a travel app or spend more than like, you know, 10 minutes on a travel app. So that's really what we're focused on on content first, and then once we've nailed the content, we can actually start bringing in transactions. So it's a bit like yeah, that kind of holistic super app for the travel space.

SPEAKER_10 6:11:47

Yeah, no, it's an incredibly exciting time uh for you and the team, and uh that's why I wanted to focus on that uh first and foremost, because that is ultimately the um the path forward for you and the team is the success of I Wander. Um I have the privilege to be able to collaborate with you on the advisory side as well, and I just thought I'd share that, and then we'll uh finish off by sharing some of the highlights from the conference that we've shared here together, and I'd just highlight to our listeners as we're having this conversation. I think we're like one of the last uh eight people left in the uh the conference. Everyone else is outside having drinks. Um it's been two full days back to back to back, and uh here we are. We're still like, and this is the reality of you know, you uh leading a startup. Uh and in many ways, travel trends has been uh very much has that same spirit and energy. And so uh for us, we're still happy to be here as everyone else is closing things down and we're having this conversation. But uh one of the other things that we were very focused on together uh uh at the conference is highlighting the advisory side of Travel Trends. And um, we're kind of doing a soft launch, if you will, at the conference. And you know, what used to be acceleration team, we we brought it into Travel Trends because the number of clients that would ask if we were doing advisory services and uh give my background in the industry. I I I love doing that type of work and I love working with startups, established brands, um enterprise uh organizations that are looking to launch new brands, enter new markets, and it was very much part of my chief digital chief marketing officer role at the travel corporation for many years. So I loved that role and I love the work that I did there, and I've been able to recreate that on the advisory side of travel trends. But the reality is um I'm hitting that point, which is an exciting point to be at, where um I'm trying to keep up and trying to manage my time between the media side of the business and the advisory side of the business. And I tapped Marius on the shoulder first because it's someone that I uh I I have a great uh not respect for, but also there's certain people that you can just collaborate with. And I've seen it when we were doing board meetings and when we were brainstorming on the I Wander. I said, Marius, you've got a background in consulting. I would love to involve you in this. Would you be interested in getting involved? And Marius uh kindly jumped at the opportunity. And so over the last couple of months, Marius has been working with me on the advisory side, and it's really Started to flourish, and the clients have been delighted. And so I said to Marius, we need to keep going that we need to keep doing more of this and bringing on more clients. And so Marius is now on our website. We've added him to our website, still less his role at IWander, but he's also there as a uh someone that's helping on the advisory side. And so I'm surfacing Marius gradually as we build out the advisory side because I don't want to take away from the startup life that you're leading. Um but obviously I love working with you and you're adding a huge amount of value to the advisory business and to our clients. So again, that's enough for me, that's another thank you. Um but tell everyone about your involvement and what you've been sharing with the people here at the conference about Travel Trends Advisory.

SPEAKER_18 6:14:41

Yeah, no, so uh Dan kindly offered me this opportunity a couple of a couple of months ago, and it's just been so much fun. Uh, because I come from a background where I've done quite a few different things in the past, but marketing, product, strategy, branding, but also uh quite a bit of consulting as well. And I think as well as a startup founder, when you have spent you know the best part of five years, you know, over various startups, um, focusing on your problems and your issues, it's quite nice and refreshing to actually take that step out and look at what other people or what challenges other companies are facing. And then actually that that also helps you as well be a bit more structured with your time, but also you know, actually take those learnings as well to your company as well after. But it's just been so much fun and like you know, learning about different companies and seeing how well all these companies are doing, and you know, what just what this ecosystem is and and uh building up that playbook as well with you as well, um to then go ahead and scale this a little bit a little bit more. It's been been a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_10 6:15:50

And obviously, we want to be very mindful about who we partner with, and that's where first and foremost, my uh obligation has been to our existing advisory clients and making sure they're absolutely getting what they need, and we've been excelling in that front, so we're finally at a point now where we can uh expand. So we have updated the Travel Trendspodcast.com slash advisory section of our website, which you can find under uh the about section on our main website. We have not broken it out and we have not done any promotion for the advisory service until this point for the very reason that we've just been busy enough servicing the clients that we have, and we'll continue to do that, but we also are now the ability to scale. So that's one of the things that we were highlighting here. So this is officially our coming out party of our advisor travel trends advisory, our kind of soft launch, if you will. Um, but the other thing I want to close off on is the conference itself. As we both know, um we love working with Pete Como, uh and Gene and the Focus Right team. I know you have um uh a great admiration for them as well. I mean, clearly Pete inviting you to be a part of the uh event on the first day is a clear sign of that. Um but I adore working with the entire Focus Right team. I love this partnership and this collaboration. It's been really exciting for me over the last two days to um to meet so many new people. I've uh connected with a lot of their colleagues, but a lot of people on this podcast, it's been the first time I've met them and learning about their businesses, and I always find that really exciting. So, same as you, I have that like you know, you start to see opportunities and how you can connect people. And um, but I'd love to get your take on the last couple of days from the conference itself. I realize you've been so busy in meetings and also um working the booth with me that you haven't been able to attend as much sessions than you would have liked, Marius. But uh tell all of our listeners some other highlights from the last couple of days.

SPEAKER_18 6:17:33

Sure. So for me, I mean focus right, a couple of things to say on it. One, I always say this, but it's worth reiterating what they do for the startup scene and the way which they elevate startups and give them a platform to rub shoulders with, you know, the big guys in the industry unique. Um, second, obviously the team are absolutely wonderful, they're fantastic, they're so hardworking, and the content which they produce is just exceptional. Uh, but what I really see the benefit of Focus Right is basically compounding those relationships which you've already got. Because every time you come, you you know, you meet new people, but you also meet the same people, it compounds, you get a little bit closer to them, a bit more personal. And that's where you realize as well actually how small this industry is, where it is actually quite, you know, it's it's it is quite a small industry, it's a relationship-driven industry, and coming here and actually like you know, getting to know people on a more personal basis, on a more kind of intimate, uh, on more intimate, smaller setting is always very useful. Uh, in terms of the industry itself, oh the the kind of the vibe, maybe actually I can I've got a couple of thoughts, but let's switch it back to you, Cynthia's been asking all the questions today. Like, what what have you what kind of themes have come out today based off you know the conversations which you've had? Like what's what's your what's your feeling?

SPEAKER_10 6:18:51

Yeah, so I was asked a question, an interesting question on the first night, and it's come up uh, which is what's the next big breakthrough that we're expecting to happen in terms of AI and technology in the travel industry? And then we're clearly we're talking about agentic, but the specific sphere, I guess, is once people actually start booking. And so there are no question they're researching and they're using these tools. And I think that is potentially gonna be the biggest breakthrough that we'll see between this focus right and the next one. And I do think the dam will break and some of these players will uh start to get real cut through, and but it's not clear yet who that's gonna be. Is it gonna be mind trip um.ai? Obviously, you heard from Andy on this podcast. You know, it's uh they are certainly one of the strongest considerations. But there are a number of companies working very actively in AI. And actually, even uh uh someone I just met uh with my BizTrip.ai, which I'm not expecting them to solve for agentic, but they won the startup award to your point, Marius, about you know, focus right always being very integrated with with uh startups. That's always been a focus on our episodes because we want to bring startups into the conversation and focus right gives them a spotlight. And it's always been one of the things about my corporate career is how does a large established organization work with startups? And the real value of working with startups is that you get to influence their roadmap. Look at City Sightseeing working with you. That's a great example. And so you get the investment, you get the uh the brand association, you get all the benefits of working with a large enterprise partner, and they get access to great tech, um, you know, usually a um, you know, a smart, fast, uh moving team. And so I think it's very savvy that Focus Rights done that. So it's it was cool to see more startups here that are going on the journey that you went on, um, uh where you know you get to go to Singapore, then you get to go to the US. And then the last thing I would say is that this year there was I really enjoyed uh the roundtables. I had the privilege to be a part of one, um, but I actually like the dynamic that was no microphone, um, and it was the whole idea was no scripts and just get opinions. And we got some really fantastic engagement from people in the room. And there was laughter, and it was like it was like people don't want to just be presented to. And that's that's a shift that we're seeing in the industry if you look at some of the big conferences. Is that people want to be interactive, they want to engage, they want to be the center of the story, they don't want to just sit in the audience.

SPEAKER_18 6:21:06

And on that as well, it's um there's no filter as well. You can you've sometimes you get these round tables where people don't really hold back, and it's a very unique opportunity for all your competitors to be in the same room as well, and then you know, actually discussing about where it's going, but also like calling each other out on certain things, which is one entertaining, but two, yeah, she you can learn quite a lot about it as well. Like it's it I mean it's so unique. Um, so it's brilliant. But just on that as well, I think like for me the theme which really stood out is like AI readiness. I think um speaking to a lot of the the players, I think a lot of work what's what's come out here is that a lot of work has been happening behind the scenes at all these big companies to restructure the data, like maybe work a little bit more on the kind of like on the plumbing, the pipes and the plumbing, and being a bit more ready to actually start implementing these um AI into customer face and interfaces. Um so I think there's that, and that that we're starting to see that with the payment layer, which is where basically this is happening with the transaction layer where okay, how can you start surfacing your products through chat or through Chat GPT plugins or widgets? And uh yeah, it's it's quite interesting to see all that.

SPEAKER_10 6:22:18

Yeah, definitely. And as we wrap up here, I want to make sure that we, as people have heard throughout the episode, I've always closed off with uh the best way to connect with people. And the reason that I do that, I just want to share is that um, and it's not to obviously be repetitive, the idea is to make sure that all of our listeners get the chance to connect with the amazing people that I have the privilege to sit here and interview. And I've alluded to this a couple of times over some of the interviews that I've done, is that you know, I do see it as a huge privilege to be at a conference like this. And I felt that way when I was um um in my like late 20s and 30s, and um and it's one of the things, and now 40s, I'm like, I'm like, but the point my point of sharing that is that um whatever stage you're at, there's a huge benefit to be here. And and keeping that perspective that I had, um it's it's who am I it's the audience I'm always thinking about when I'm recording these podcasts is you know, myself 20 years ago. What would I like to be if I could be in a position to ask these people questions, what would I want to ask them? And so at the end of it though, I want you, the listener, to be able to be empowered from those conversations to take it further. So I'm encouraging you to reach out to any and all the speakers that you've heard in the session that you think there could be opportunities to collaborate with. Jacqueline Grossman, who was a listener to our podcast from the beginning, she built her network and new career opportunities off the back of every episode of our podcast, listening to them reaching out to every guest, having follow-up conversations, learning the industry. And I love that because that's my hope for each of you listening to this. So please take the opportunity to reach out to people that have taken the time to share their story and what they're working on. That ultimately is the um the greatest gift for me when I see people who've been on our podcast again and they say to me, Oh my god, I got so many people reached out to me. And I'm like, and I got this you know great new business uh deal. And it's like that's wonderful. That to me is like um it makes it feel uh all worthwhile. Um so that's the thing I would just want to kind of sign off with, Marius, and the same applies for you. I know I asked people, I know I asked uh how people can connect with uh uh down the download the iWander app. But let's finish on how people can connect with Marius Nagan, that I have the privilege to work with. If people want to reach out to you about opportunities with IWander or opportunities with the advisories uh team as well.

SPEAKER_18 6:24:34

For sure. I think the easiest place to find me is on LinkedIn. Uh so if you type in my name, so Marius M-A-R-I-U-S Nigon N-I-G-O-N-D. So silent D. I know it's a silent D, and I I just can't I can't bear my I can't I can't I can't bear myself to actually like say the D, even though I probably should. Um yeah, so LinkedIn uh and I'll reply there.

SPEAKER_10 6:24:58

Awesome. Well, thank you again, Marius, for being here. Thanks for all your support over the last couple of days, and I look forward to you joining us at future events. And I wish you and Antoine every success in 2026 and going forward with I Wander.

SPEAKER_18 6:25:10

And on behalf of everyone else, thank you for giving us all an insight into all these amazing conferences, what's happening in the industry, what's happening next.

Focusrite USA Invite And Closing

SPEAKER_18 6:25:18

Like we all appreciate it, and the hard work does not go unnoticed.

SPEAKER_10 6:25:22

Thank you, Marius, and thanks to all of our listeners for spending the time. I mean, many of you are probably coming to the end of a multi-hour episode. Some of you may have listened to it in installments. However, you have, I just want to say thank you for taking the time to listen to this event spotlight from FocusRight Europe, Barcelona 2026. As you heard the throughout the podcast, uh, the event will be in London next year. I look forward to the Focus Right USA conference in November back in Fort Lauderdale at the Amazing Diplomat Hotel. We do have a discount code that you can find on Traveltrendspodcast.com to join us. And if you use the discount code, uh send me an email because I will guarantee that you are included on the podcast. And as Marius saw, that is very meaningful now because unfortunately, I just can't quite get to, even with recording every hour on the half an hour of all days of the conference, uh, to be able to incorporate everybody. And it's my uh honest attempt to, as Marius has seen. Um, but I just wanted to highlight if you do uh book your ticket and come to the event, I will guarantee that you'll be featured on the podcast. That was my commitment to the focus right team and to our listeners. And so hopefully we'll see you in Florida later this year. And for any of you who's just discovered the Travel Trends Podcast, you know traveltrendspodcast.com for more information. We do post clips and highlights uh on our social channels. You can find us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTube at Travel Trends Podcast. And we're on all the streaming platforms, so make sure you're subscribed to be notified when new episodes go live. And until next time, thanks again for joining us and safe travels.