Event Spotlight: Arival 360 Valencia 2026

Recorded live from Valencia, Spain, this episode brings together insights from 14 industry leaders across technology, distribution and marketing, capturing what’s actually working in travel in 2026 at Arival 360.

Multi-day tours take center stage with Dan moderating sessions with leaders from TourRadar, G Adventures, WeRoad, Contiki, The Travel Corporation, Exoticca, kimkim, Evaneos, Evan Evans and more. 

And in this recording these execs share the strategies driving growth today, from gateway products that introduce travelers to the category, to smarter tech stack decisions that enhance the customer journey.

Want to dive straight into the conversations that matter most to you? Just scroll down for timestamps and guest highlights from each interview.

And don’t forget — we hope to see you at Arival 360 in Spokane, Washington, this October 13-16 2026.

Highlights & Timestamps

3m11s - Maya Patel, Sr. Specialist, Partner Marketing, Bokun

14m24s - Enrique Espinel, COO, Civitatis

31m44s - Brennen Bliss, CEO, Propellic

49m18s - Brian Young, UK Managing Director, G Adventures

1hr12m - Natasha Lawrence, Director of Product Strategy, Contiki

1hr34m - Tom Macklin, Managing Director, Evan Evans

1hr48m - Roberta Scott, Marketing Director, ATTA

1hr56m - Yenyi Fu, Head of Product, kimkim

2hr5m - Sarah Hillman, Director of Technology for CRM & Data, The Travel Corporation

2hr27m - Juanjo Duran, Chief Product & Marketing Officer, Exottica

2hr44m - Pere Valles, CEO, Exottica

3hr7m - Will Holmberg, Business Development Manager, Protect Group

3hr18m - Roberto Bermúdez, Managing Director, Go Nexus Group

3hr31m - John Boulding, Strategic Advisor

The #1 B2B Travel Podcast Globally. Over 100 Episodes. Listeners in 125 countries. New Episodes Every Weds. 

https://www.traveltrendspodcast.com/

Transcript

Bokun On Booking Tech And Partners

SPEAKER_14 0:05

Hello everyone and welcome to a special event spotlight of travel trends. This is your host, Dan Christian, and all these interviews were recorded live at the Arrival Valencia conference from April 27th to 29th, 2026. So if you weren't able to join us there, these are the incredibly special people that came together for the event, but there were hundreds more. We have 14 speakers joining us in today's Spotlight episode. But before I introduce them, I also wanted to highlight that Arrival Brisbane is June 22nd to 24th, which will also have a multi-day tour focus. And then I'll be back again moderating in Spokane, Washington for the Arrival 360 conference October 13th to 16th. You can get more information at arrival.travel, but you can also get a discount by going to traveltrendspodcast.com and getting the promo code from our home page to get a discount to either of those events. And of course, at Spokane, we will also be doing another event spotlight. So make sure you send me an email, Dan at Traveltrendspodcast.com, and I will make sure that we schedule time together. But today I want to highlight these extraordinary individuals that came together. We had six specific multi-day sessions. We had a special speaker's lunch, and I just want to acknowledge Kimberly for her contributions on the content and bringing these sessions together. And of course, I want to say a very special thank you to Bruce Rosard and Lynn and Douglas and the entire team Terra Christie over at Arrival, who put on an absolutely extraordinary event. I think many of you would have seen all the glowing reviews on LinkedIn and all the social channels from this amazing event. But for those of you who weren't there, or those that want to relive some of the highlights, this is certainly one of the best ways to do it. And today we have amongst the 14 speakers, we have Enrique Espinal from Civitatus, Maya Patel from Boken, Brennan Bliss from Propelic, and then several of the speakers who included Brian Young from G Adventures, Natasha Lawrence from Kentiki, Tom Macklin from Evan Evans, Sarah Hillman from the Travel Corporation, and two executives from Exotica, Juan Yo Duran, who is the Chief Marketing and Chief Product Officer, and Pere Vallas, who is the CEO of Exotica. We're also joined by Roberta Scott, who heads up Partnership Marketing at the Adventure Travel and Trade Association, along with a number of other friends as well, including Yen Yi from Kim Kim and our good old friend John Bolding. So many highlights to look forward to in the discussion. We're going to kick things off by bringing you Maya Patel live from the Arrival floor. Our next guest here, live at the Arrival Conference in Valencia, happens to be a fellow Canadian, so you'll recognize the accent right away. But she actually lives in London and she heads up the partner marketing at Boken, which is a huge partner of Arrival, and also kindly now a partner of Travel Trends as well, as many of our listeners would know. Maya, welcome to the Travel Trends Podcast.

SPEAKER_10 3:11

Thank you so much. Happy to be here and very happy to be at my first arrival.

SPEAKER_14 3:15

Oh, that's yeah, your very first arrival. I actually, you introduced me to Sam Jeffries the first night. We did this spotlight episode recently that I encourage all of our listeners to check out to learn more about Bokan. Um, but let's just introduce all of our listeners to Boken. For anyone that is not familiar with who you guys are and what you guys do, tell us the a little bit of background on Bokan.

SPEAKER_10 3:33

Yes, for sure. So Boken is the complete booking system and channel management solution for extraordinary experiences. So we essentially help tour operators, experience providers, manage and grow their business. So, you know, whether you're looking to get online or connect to OTAs and really grow, or you just you just want to manage and you know control your customer communications, manage your availability, your pricing, you can really do all of that through Boken. And yeah, it's been it's it's it's been it's been great to be at Arrival and to speak to everyone here about what we do.

SPEAKER_14 4:05

And Bokan has been one of the biggest industry success stories. It was acquired by TripAdvisor. You're you're part of that ecosystem, but you really stand on your own as an independent business. Now, the fact that you are based in London, obviously there is the TripAdvisor team that is based primarily in Boston, but obviously that's a global business as well. Tell us a little bit more about the Bokan team and where you guys are based.

SPEAKER_10 4:28

Yeah, so we're we're actually based all over. So we we are a global company, we we work with operators around the world, which means we we try to have a presence in all of our big markets. And so, yeah, our our our team is primarily distributed throughout Europe. Um, we have a North American presence as well, um, presence in Asia. But yeah, I would say we're we're everywhere where our operators are, or we try to be.

SPEAKER_14 4:49

Well, and it's the one thing I think is really cool too, given that the company was started in Reykjavik in Iceland. Now you still have some developers there.

SPEAKER_10 4:55

Oh, of course. Big team in Iceland. Um, yeah, and it's it's hopefully fingers crossed, I get the chance to go there myself one day. Oh, you know what?

SPEAKER_14 5:02

You haven't been yet. Okay, you have to. Especially so since it's so easy to get there from from London.

SPEAKER_10 5:08

Exactly.

SPEAKER_14 5:08

Tell everyone a bit about your role.

SPEAKER_10 5:10

Yeah, so I am responsible for partner marketing at Boken, which basically means I work with all of our partners, so mostly our OTA partners, but also you know, you have an app store, some app store partners as well, um, you know, other sponsorship opportunities, um, other, you know, media partners like Travel Trends. Um, yeah, I basically am responsible for growing that partnership and making sure that our objectives are being met, their objectives are being met, that you know, we're growing together. Um, yeah. And so it's it's a great role. I really get to work with a lot of different people, which I love.

SPEAKER_14 5:41

Yeah, well, it's been great working with you already and you know, terrific to get this time together here in person. Our booths are actually right next to each other. Um, the Travel Trends booth where we're recording now, Melanie, who runs all our partnerships, has been here. So there's the two of us on Travel Trends side, but there's 12 people here from Boken. And you guys have a massive booth.

SPEAKER_10 6:00

I know. We're getting a lot of attention this week, which is amazing. Um, we did go through a rebrand in January, so we were, you know, we were blue and black, and um now we're bright green. So we really stand out and in the morning when the sun is shining. You need your sunglasses when you're at our booth, and so thankfully we have those hand to hand out here this week. And yeah, the booth has been great. Um, a lot of meetings, a lot of people. Um, it's the perfect place for for us to really have those meaningful conversations.

SPEAKER_14 6:29

Well, now tell us about your first experience at Arrival. Well, how has it been? What has some the initial takeaways and uh insights and observations?

SPEAKER_10 6:38

No, it's been great. Um, I've been to some other really large travel industry-wide events this year and last year, but this is my first event that's really focused on the experiences part of the industry. So it really feels like every conversation is really meaningful. And my colleagues have been saying the same thing at some of the other bigger events. You know, it's it's the whole industry, whereas this is really focused. And so everyone that is here, we kind of touch in a certain way, whether they're an OTA or um dynamic pricing or you know, other integrated apps that we work with. We we almost know everyone here. So it's it's really great, and there's so many people to talk to. Um, personally, it's wonderful for me. I get to meet our partners in person. Um, otherwise, we're just you know seeing each other over video. So it's really nice to have those conversations, start planning for the rest of the year together in person. Um, I mean, it's always great to spend time with my teammates as well, as we are pretty spread out um across across Europe. So yeah, it's it's really wonderful so far. Talks have been really good. Um, was just at the Airbnb one early today. It was amazing. Um, it's really interesting to see the future of experiences with them. And yeah, I don't know. It's been it's been good so far.

SPEAKER_14 7:46

Well, I've seen your booth lined up because you have been serving some fantastic coffee as well. It's gonna be keeping it.

SPEAKER_10 7:51

Very strategic.

SPEAKER_14 7:52

Yeah, very savvy. Uh and I want to go back to the sessions that you've attended. I actually would love to hear a little bit more about what some of the most valuable sessions have been.

SPEAKER_10 8:02

Yes. Um, I caught the end of the AI debate. I I didn't quite get to hear the first half, but that was really interesting because we actually, on one side, you had um OTAs distribution, and then you had direct bookings on the other side, and we actually work at Boken with both sides. So it was interesting. It was great to see our partners like was it Scotland up there and then Civitatus up there on the other side. Um interesting to hear about the future of distribution and what that looks like with LLMs and and how people are searching. And that's obviously the the big topic, I think, in in travel, especially in experiences this year. Um so that was a great one. I mentioned the Airbnb session, it was great. I mean, we work with Airbnb, they're they're a OTA partner of ours. So we um it's it's great to hear that they're heading in a direction that I think our operators will really like. Um yeah, it was it was about a year ago where I think they really announced their relaunch of experiences. And so it was great to hear them kind of give us the one-year update and how things are evolving and and how the future looks. And so that was really insightful.

SPEAKER_14 9:04

Well, one of the things that stood out when I saw Maya at the ITV conference in Berlin uh was the fact that Bokan works with so many companies, including companies that are technically competitors with Viator and TripAdvisor, and that's obviously very intentional, so that Bokan can continue to scale and be a standalone successful business. Now, the one thing I'd love for you, if you wouldn't mind sharing, is that there's obviously key reasons why people choose Bokan over your competitors, you know, companies like Fair Harbor, for example, um, and also Peak. Um, so there's a number of different ResTech platforms, but you guys have had not only a really great resurgence, there's always been a strong community around your platform, but it, you know, the last with the rebranding of some of the initiatives you have coming up with marketing, it seems as though you guys are really hitting your stride. Why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_10 9:56

I mean, I'll start with our connected distribution. So I know Sam um was a guest already a couple weeks ago, and that's gonna launch soon. Um, talked all about it. But yeah, I mean, we connect to thousands of OTAs and resellers around the world. So not only the big players like Viator, get your guide, Airbnb, etc., but um lots of small ones, niche ones. You know, we have resellers who do only adventure sports or you know, very specific, more focused, um, more focused audiences. And so there's there's a platform or a or a reseller experience for for everyone, whether you're trying to reach, you know, young travelers, female travelers, um, you know, any anyone we have we have the the the reseller OTA for you. And so that's great, especially with the operators who are in the early stages and they're really looking to grow and and make it easy on themselves. Um I would say our pricing is some of the best in the in the market right now. Um, and so that's that's always been a very good point for for us to continue to talk about. Um yeah, and I would say just our our support team. You know, we're we're we're always looking out, um, we're always you know trying to be there for our operators and and provide as much support as we can. Um, Dan, you've seen our team here. We're we're busy. It doesn't stop for us. Uh we have a million, not a million, we have a bunch of people behind the scenes who are working so hard to maintain all of our API connections, to maintain um seamless connections to some of the big partners. And so there's there's a lot of work that goes into making sure that our operators are having the best experience. And I know they they really they really appreciate that. And the last thing I'll say is just on the partnerships marketing side, um, we're always trying to provide as much content and education as possible to our operators. So, you know, for example, we integrate with Stripe, we integrate with Refund Protect, Protect Group, you know, so we're always, and we've held webinars this year with all of them. So we'll we always are looking to bring partners on to provide education, um, give a little bit of bit of a more personalized experience to our operators. Um Yeah, and I and I know that that really makes a difference in in their eyes.

SPEAKER_14 11:59

Yeah, that's awesome. And obviously, there's so much happening, but I knew you there's so much more that you have planned. Can you share some of those exciting marketing initiatives that are coming up?

SPEAKER_10 12:08

Yes, of course. Well, I'm very happy to say that we're launched a brand new campaign this week called the Boken Launch Bed Competition. Travel Trends is partnering with us on it, so that's very amazing. Thank you, Dan. Um, it's essentially a Dragon's Den style, Shark Tank style pitching competition where we are inviting operators to pitch a brand new creative, innovative tour idea. Um, there's an epic prize to be won, cash prize, but also great prizes from your biggest OTA partners like Viturn Get Your Guide. Um, the winner will also be able to come to Arrival next year and have a Spark point stand for free. So that's amazing. And I just can't wait to see who that is and talk to them next year. Um, yeah, and so much more. Uh lots of marketing support. And yeah, it's it's an epic campaign. Submissions are going to be open very soon, and you'll find all about more about it on our social media. And I'm sure everyone who's listening will be hearing about it soon.

SPEAKER_14 13:02

Yeah, congrats. It's a big week and it's a huge development for Bokan. It's a phenomenal campaign. We're obviously honored to be a part of it. You can find out more information on our social channels as well, which you'll find on Instagram and LinkedIn. Yeah. And I just love that you are supporting the startup ecosystem.

SPEAKER_10 13:16

Of course. It's such an important part of this niche part of travel, and um it's our way of really just giving back to the experiences industry and and doing something that we can doing something in a way that we can really encourage innovation and and creative thinking, which is what we try to do in our in our day-to-day you know jobs as well. And so it's it's a great way for our partners to be able to um give back as well. And so we're we're really excited, and I just can't wait to start watching the submissions. Terrific.

SPEAKER_14 13:44

And I want to make sure, Maya, that everyone listening to this has the opportunity to connect with you and the team. So, what would they be the best ways for people to do that post-conference when they're listening to this?

SPEAKER_10 13:54

Yes, I mean, please, you'll I mean, post-conference, you'll see us post, you'll see everyone on the book and cheap posting about it on LinkedIn. So please connect with us on LinkedIn, send us a message. Um, yeah, that's probably the best, that's the best place to find us right now. And and um we're always, you know, we're always happy to talk and to meet new people. And yeah, you can find us at BoCin TripAdvisor Company uh on LinkedIn. So that's that's the best place. I'm on LinkedIn as well, my Patel. So yeah.

SPEAKER_14 14:17

Fantastic. Well, thank you, Maya. Terrific to see you here and great to get this time together. Congrats on your first arrival.

SPEAKER_10 14:23

Thank you. We're almost there.

Civitatis On AI And Latin Growth

SPEAKER_14 14:26

Our next guest has been on our podcast before there, also a fantastic partner of Travel Trends. I have the privilege now to sit down with Enrique Espinol, who is the Chief Operating Officer at Civitadas. Enrique, welcome back to Travel Trends. Thank you so much, Dan. Great to have you here. And obviously, you have been to Arrival for many years, and this is close to home for you. You're based in Madrid. Yeah. You took the train here, I think, right? Yeah, one hour and a half. So it's it's great for us. Yeah, no, so I mean, and I know they've already announced me, yeah. Yeah, of course. No, I'm thrilled that you're here. Uh tell all of our listeners, for those that are not familiar with Civitatus, a little bit more about the company and what you guys do.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Well, Civitatis is the leading distribution platform for doing some activities in the Spanish and Portuguese market. So we lead Spain and also that time market in the industry. Um yes, we are here for 18 years now. We are celebrating our 18th uh anniversary this year. So and remind how many customers you've had over that time. Well, um now we have around 1.2 million customers per month, which is the number we are proud now, right now, uh many millions after before this year, of course.

SPEAKER_14 15:37

Well, I was always a big fan of Civitatus, and I've done a lot of travel to South America in particular. I know that Mexico and uh South America are our major growth markets for you and the team. And you know, when we had our episode talking about Civitatus, it's one of the unique competitive advantages of your business and your platform is Spanish speaking travelers.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

Exactly. That was uh what takes us here. Uh from the beginning, we have always uh focused on on having the best Spanish-speaking tours all over the world. Um well at the beginning we started with Spanish travelers, but immediately we started to receive bookings from Argentina, uh, Colombia, Mexico, and we realized that there was a huge opportunity to create a marketplace focused on this, which nobody else was doing. And well, uh, Spanish-speaking market is more than eight hundred million people in the world, so it's not a niche, it's a huge market, and uh we lead it.

SPEAKER_14 16:32

And civitatus, just so everyone can follow along, it's uh civitatis.com, c i v I, t-a-t-i-s.com. So definitely have a check of the website as we're having this conversation because you'll see the branding and sitting across from Enrique now, he's wearing the true brand brand colors, uh the pink polo shirt, him and the team. Whenever I see you in the room or passing by, it really stands out. And when I was on the main stage giving a talk, I could see there was an entire row of Civitata's team members. It was like pink. The only people, the only brand in this whole conference that completely stands out. Brand is everything, and even more these days. Yeah, absolutely. So tell everyone a little bit about the background of coming to Arrival, given that Arrival came to you essentially. You guys were in this market for many years before Arrival started running conferences here. As our listeners know, this is my very first arrival Europe and first time in Valencia. Tell everyone about what brought you to Arrival in the first place and what specifically brings you back this year.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

Well, at the beginning, uh as you said, we were here before, but uh Rivalbat. I think that what they did uh it's very good for the industry. They put together everyone uh and they create these uh events which are absolutely great for us. It's the place to be, is the when we meet all our partners, but also peers. It's the only place that you could will find Civitati, and at the same time, all the rest, all the major attractions, uh great true operators. So I think it's great for us. It's a great moment, especially uh arrival Europe at the beginning of the year, after the first quarter. It's great to see how the industry, where we are heading. Uh for me, I think it's it's great what they did uh for the industry. Um it's it's the same as the beginning. So we will be here for always.

SPEAKER_14 18:22

Yeah, well, that's I mean, clearly you are one of the well-established players that has been a part of it from the beginning. And Douglas Quinby spoke about that in the exec summit, which was a really fantastic first day at the event. You were part of that as well.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

Yeah, this is something new in Arrival, the the executive summit summit they did the first day. And I think it was great. It was a small uh event with uh great executives, CEOs, owners, and many relevant people in the industry. Um I really enjoyed the discussion.

SPEAKER_14 18:51

Yeah, I did as well, and it was great to have you in the room. There was about 50 of us, and I was had the privilege to facilitate one of the tables. Tell everyone about the first task that we had to do. There's a uh a legendary figure named Mark Meki that many of the people here are familiar with. He spoke at the arrival conference in Berlin and presented this touring tours, and it was such an incredible presentation uh around using AI, you know, 100 Euros and an hour created a new business. And this is going back five years ago now, and things have evolved so much since then. So it was great to have him back as a moderator. But tell everyone about that opening session he did and what other kind of observations you had about the exec day. The icebreaking activity was.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

Yes, yeah, it was. We have to work together as a team, and and we we enjoyed this part because I think it we it was very creative and well, yeah, I think it was good for for starting the the day.

SPEAKER_14 19:51

Yeah, we had to get this marble across the table from one end to the other, but it had to get there within a minute, but it had to be no less than 10 seconds, otherwise everyone failed. Yeah, and you were given a few things, scissors and tape and a few things on the table to try and work with, and then told that you needed to go around the room to get other devices or other things that could help you. And it was fun to see everyone just freestyling it first thing in the morning as they were all kind of waking up and processing what they'd signed up for, and then but opening up their creative mind and all the different solutions that people came up with. So, yeah, no, I agree with you. I really enjoyed. I didn't get a chance to do the one in Washington, so I was thrilled to be a part of the one here. And I know that's one of the new developments for arrival, but as we're sitting here on the last day of the conference, over the course of this episode, people have heard from a number of speakers, and but I wanted to you we have the now the privilege of being on the third day to talk about some of the sessions that have happened over the last couple of days, and you have the privil you have the insight from being here for multiple years. Tell everyone what's particularly interesting and special about Valencia arrival 2026 and what have been some of the takeaways and the most valuable sessions you've attended.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

Well, I have just been in the great debate uh right now, uh where they discuss about uh this uh word against distribution, uh OTAs, uh right bookings, which is not new, it's uh has always been there. But I think it's it's it's always great to to see how this discussion evolves now with with AI. I think it empowers a lot uh operators, but at the same time, I think it empowers uh OTA. So I think uh AI has has been a topic for sure in any conversation, in every session. And and I think this also creates some uncertainty uh uncertainty uh about what's going on in uh with with uh how people will book in in the future. But uh what I uh my my takeaway is that um at the end of the day uh the human touch is really, really important for everyone. And that that Obvious here, no, after all the session that uh we'll still be here for many years.

SPEAKER_14 22:06

Yeah, the great debate rages on, really, is what it comes down to. And the um I'm glad you mentioned AI because clearly that is a part of almost every session. One of the things that the team at Arrival was very conscientious of with this event was to weave AI throughout all three days rather than just having a standalone AI day, which is I definitely think was the right decision. Obviously, multi-day tours the same, spread out over the last few days. But the other one I was keen to ask you about, you might have some interesting insight on is culinary. Because so many customers are interested in taking culinary and food tours, and you've seen it here too, Enrique. There are so many food tour operators here, eating Europe, and there's uh there's literally dozens of uh companies focused on that niche. And I'm curious from Cibitatus' vantage point, what you've been seeing around culinary experiences, and if any of the sessions you attended here were particularly interesting on that topic.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

For us, it's a category that is growing. Uh a few years ago we didn't have any at all. Now we have many culinary tours. And uh well, what we see is that people uh want to book these tours because it's a different way to understand the culture, to to meet uh people with the same uh well objectives and and well uh we see that many customers from from our Latin markets, mainly Mexicans, Brazilians, uh they are willing to do this type of of tours. There was another one which I really enjoyed, which is again uh about AI, about uh how uh organizations are uh uh evolving to have more uh hybrid organizations, no, with uh agency AI. Now I think there is a huge disruption, and especially this year with all the uh cloud news that we have all we all heard, and that I think now every company is not just empowering their teams with AI now it's even replacing some of the roles uh with uh or processes with AI, and I think it is really interesting because it it's helping for efficiency but also to empower uh all the companies to go much faster, and I think it's gonna be very, very interesting in that sense these common years.

SPEAKER_14 24:27

Yeah, and so for sure, that's gonna move quickly, and agentic AI is definitely top of mind for everyone. Is there some ways that Civicatus has been embracing agentic AI, or how are you guys looking at AI as an organization?

SPEAKER_02 24:39

Uh absolutely uh efficiency point of view, uh of course, and it has been this uh way for years, but now, as I said, we are doing whole processes through agentic AI much faster than ever, and uh also in in uh in engineering, in marketing, in even destination management, or even in our uh commercial uh areas, we are really embracing it, and and well, it's well uh really great.

SPEAKER_14 25:18

And then one thing I also want to ask, given that your company continues to scale globally, is some of your plans. I know you've been you've got a team here working with a lot of different partners, and given the year that we're having with you know some uncertainty in different markets, what are the overall plans for Cibitatis in 2026? What are some of the developments that you and the team are working on?

SPEAKER_02 25:40

Well, we have just launched in Q1 our new app, which I think it's very exciting for us because I think it's it's a change of the way we tell the activities, and now we uh it's a real travel companion where we know the dates that someone is trying to travel anywhere, and we are helping them to fill these trips with really perfect memories, and and I think it's it's a new chapter for us in this site. Uh on the other hand, uh we we what excites us the most is how we are growing in Latin America. Uh, I think again, we are we have been there for many years, but it's still it's still the early days there for the industry, uh both as a destination and both as a source market. Um I think we have to to continue pushing mainly this, uh of course, empowered by AI in any sense.

SPEAKER_14 26:31

Um yeah, I I think yeah. And beyond AI, because that actually is the theme of our summit later this year, as you know, you've been a part of our AI summit 2024, 2025, and 2026. Our intention with our event was to expand the discussions beyond AI, given that AI now is going to be integrated into all aspects of marketing and technology. What are some of the other big trends that you're paying attention to at Civitatus? What is some of the data telling you about how co how consumers are evolving and changing their behavior?

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Well, what we see is of course that uh discoverability and inspirations has completely changed thanks to AIs, thanks to social media as well, and uh SEO has declined for everyone. For us, it's it's uh a very important channel, but uh this is changing. But what we see is that the the booking is more and more in OTAs. We have seen this in some of the sessions as well, uh, and in the research that uh Focus Right and Arrival did about the industry. So it's true that uh AI is changing the way we discover things and we how we we search, but at the end of the day, the trust and the technology and the customer service that we provide with all our curation uh reinforces our position as key driver for the booking for tourism activities. So this is my my my view.

SPEAKER_14 28:02

Well, and along those same lines, when you know for each of us, as we try and figure out where this industry is headed and have these types of conversations to understand what we're each seeing from our data and from customers, one of the things I always come back to is that the most successful companies in this space tend to be the ones that are the eternal optimists and that seek out new opportunities and remain positive despite the challenges that sometimes exist in our market. Many travel companies go from crisis to crisis. You've been in this industry for many years. You know, you're a chief operating officer, a very senior executive at one of the biggest OTAs globally. What keeps you optimistic about our industry?

SPEAKER_02 28:39

We are resilient, as you know. We have been here for many years and well, they always uh have faced many challenges, but we are very optimistic. Again, we uh we think we are still in the early days, we have many, many things to do, and to keep uh uh enabling our uh suppliers to have visibility to help them to get more bookings and also to help our uh customers to to enjoy and to fill their trips with great memories. So I think uh to continue uh digitalizing this industry, I think is what excited me the the the most. Um and well, uh nobody knows what's gonna happen. One of the questions in one of the sessions was are the OTAs will exist in five years? And I don't think anyone has the answer. Uh I I what I think is that we will be there and it will be even more important. I don't know what would be the interface, how we will uh uh be there uh in in in in in the moment of the booking, but our data, uh uh the way we we deal with all the challenges as you you discuss and as you mentioned before, uh is unique and and it brings uh a lot of value to all of our customers and our our B2B partners as well.

SPEAKER_14 30:02

Well, I know we're both tracking that closely and we attend a number of conferences together. Tell all of our listeners where else you're going to be in 2026 to connect with yourself and the team at Civitatus. I know you're gonna be at Focus Right of Europe is Barcelona.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

We're always at Arrival, uh also in Spokane, uh Focus Right, Barcelona, Focus Right, uh US in Fort Lot of Dead. But apart from that, we are in all the trade shows in Latin America. We have just been this past week in Tiangis in Mexico, and uh a couple of weeks before in WTM Sao Paulo, where we are very present, especially in Latin America, but also in the big events of the industry, which is the way to be in contact with the partners, as I said. For sure.

SPEAKER_14 30:43

And I know how hard you and the team work, and for us who love this industry, we also love travel. So I want to finish on that question. What do you have prep planned for personal travel in 2026?

SPEAKER_02 30:55

2026, I have just been in Miami and Orlando, which was great, and Bahamas. But uh this summer, the only plan I have is uh Portugal, which is very close to my home city. But I really love Portugal, so I will spend their week with my family.

SPEAKER_14 31:11

Fantastic. Good for you. And let's just finish off to make sure that anyone I mentioned the website, of course, but for anyone listening to this that wants to connect with you, Enrique, obviously they can go to LinkedIn. But what were the best ways to connect with you and also with the team?

SPEAKER_02 31:24

Well, the best way is to go to cvitadis.com and partners or if you are a travel agency, you can go to uh cvitatis.com slash agencies. Um both B2B partners or suppliers are more than welcome to come and and contact with us and to grow together. Fantastic.

Propelic On Marketing Data And AI

SPEAKER_14 31:44

Well, great to see you again, Enrique. Thanks again for our continued partnership. You know, we're big fans of Civitatus, so it's great to see you again here at the conference, and I look forward to seeing you again in Barcelona in June. Of course. Thank you for your support season. I am absolutely thrilled to introduce our next guest who is a great friend of mine and a huge supporter of travel trends since our earliest days. It is Brennan Bliss, the founder and CEO of Propelic. Welcome back, Brennan. Thank you. There's so much pressure, it's live. Absolutely. For our listeners, Brennan became a sponsor in season three of our podcast, and that really set the stage for what Travel Trends has become today in season seven. Going into season eight, we have an amazing partnership with Propelic. He's been a part of our event. He's spoken as given keynotes at our AI Summit, and his business has continued to go from strength to strength over the last few years. And so I wanted him to be a part of this event spotlight, and I've got so many things I want to ask him. But for those people who are not familiar with Propelic, would you mind, Brendan, just giving a little bit of an overview of your company?

SPEAKER_09 32:48

Absolutely. So Propelic is a specialized digital marketing firm. We work specifically with travel and tourism as an industry. Got about 70 companies we work with, about a quarter of a billion dollars in ad spend have run through our uh I mean, that's what's sitting in our data warehouse of historical data that we can actually query and get a bunch of really interesting learnings from really quickly, which is um possibly what we'll be talking a little bit about.

SPEAKER_14 33:09

For sure. And Brennan's background was SEO, and he has not only focused on the travel industry with SEO, but he grew into paid media. They do content, and he's grown from a team of five to 35. And it's really amazing to see the culture that he's built and the impact he's having on the industry and the number of high-profile clients that they have brought into the business. So tell everyone a little bit more about what you guys do. Yeah, what's so special.

SPEAKER_09 33:35

So we have spent the last five or six years perfecting a methodology that we call uh bookings OS. And essentially it's these five key pillars that we see travel companies typically underperform in, and our work is to fix that, and when we fix that, it typically results in more money. And that's a that's a very good thing. That's simple, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_14 33:55

And I know G Adventures has become one of your clients, but you you know, you've been on the podcast. We did an episode on marketing with Brennan that was really well received by our listeners. We're actually going to be doing a three-part series in season eight with Propelic, focused on a deep dive into marketing travel. But tell us a little bit about some of the existing clients and the other successes you're having. Because again, you know, it's saying you're going from strength to strength, it's that much more meaningful when people can hear some of the incredible stories that companies that are still lining up to get into your portfolio.

SPEAKER_09 34:28

Yeah, I think it's uh it's interesting because uh we, I mean, tours and activities was the first segment that I personally got involved with when we got into travel, and that's why it's so nice to be here to arrival. This is kind of where uh I met the industry. But outside of that, I mean it's gone. We work with uh the you know, one of the largest ski companies in the world, one of the largest hotel groups in the world. Um we work with companies that you might be, I mean, we did we've done consulting for Viator and TripAdvisor. There's um there is a large span, but then also on the long tail, which is really where I find a lot of joy, is working with companies that are doing five or ten million in revenue and are figuring out what their next step is. They're still proving their concept, and we're there to help them do that. So I mean it's a list of again, it's 60 or 70 companies, so it's hard to reference them all, but it's it's it is uh a great span of different types of organizations and travel.

SPEAKER_14 35:15

Well, I know one of the things that you have very successfully done is built the travel portfolio partially off the back of originally the arrival conferences. I know you have a fantastic relationship with Bruce Rozard. Obviously, he's a great friend to us both. He's uh been a huge advocate for Propelic as well, and you have become a big partner of Arrival. And so tell us a little bit more about that history, the background, and what brings you to Arrival Valencia.

SPEAKER_09 35:40

Yeah, so I'll give like a 60-second why I travel real quick. Um, I was doing marketing for every industry, and then I said, I want to work that we had one client we were working with. It's called Thrifty Traveler, it's uh it was a website for or still is, it's a points and miles blog um for you know uh the credit card points and miles for travel redemption. And um I was like, I want to get into an industry. So I looked up travel, I reached out to Arrival to sponsor the conference. Bruce answered and said, You don't know enough about this industry, I'm not gonna let you sponsor, which is an amazing sales tactic. So no, so I said, You seem like an amazing person. I literally got on a plane a week later to sit down and have coffee with him. Um, and he taught me so much about the industry. We sat for three or four hours, and the first conference in travel I attended was arrival. I knew nobody at all. I think this has got to be like the eighth arrival I've attended, if not more. Um, and it's like I come here and it's like my family. It's amazing. So fun.

SPEAKER_14 36:34

And it's not just arrival now. This is the one thing, obviously, you know, establishing yourself at the arrival conference, and for here, you are a celebrity within the arrival community because people have become familiar with seeing your presentations. I saw some of your earliest presentations to highlight how your recommendations for search marketing, for example. And I remember people in the room taking notes and learning so much from you. You were like this boy wonder at the time and still continue to be in terms of like your knowledge and capability, energy, enthusiasm with what you brought to the industry. But you're now like a senior statesman and you are, you know, you are have become an important part of the travel industry. So tell us from the earliest days at arrival, now you're part of Focus Right, you sponsor Focus Right conferences. Tell us a little bit more about how Propelic has grown and where you guys can be found today.

SPEAKER_09 37:20

Absolutely. So I think I think one of the things that we noticed very early on is that we have more data on a specific category of the world than anybody, and that would be private travel companies. And specifically private travel companies in their marketing and customer attribution and acquisition data. So what we decided to do, we made a very specific goal of let's make these what we build benchmarks on, what we build the industry understanding on, and let's learn from these learnings and apply it across the board. So we just started doing that. And we started an SEO, then we added paid media, now we're adding RevOps and some other channels, we're adding affiliate marketing, and we're doing it through very strategic, slow, paced out, intentional action. Um, we can't hire the right people fast enough to keep up with the market demands. Uh, but right now we are at yeah, just over 30 people, I think, on the team, and we're um working to close an acquisition on another organization that's gonna increase that here shortly. Um and uh all things all things together, um, Propelic is uh going in the direction of tech right now. So we just made a significant investment in um uh the benchmarking data I was talking about, but also an AI uh interpretation layer for marketing analytics that also looks at things that we can only see in travel. Um it's gonna be origin and destination demand data, it's gonna be weather data. So you'll be able to have a conversation with your data if you're working with us to understand what's driving a specific outcome. Was it demand for the destination or was it actually work that we did? So that's what we're focusing on right now.

SPEAKER_14 38:45

And one of the things you've also become known for is the reporting that you've done. And there was a landmark AI study that you had done last year that had a big impact on the industry and people's understanding around how AI was impacting the customer journey. That is continued. Obviously, you've now just done a Middle East report. So you're producing content that is highly topical, highly relevant. We actually promote them every quarter in our newsletter. Anyone subscribes to travel trends will see an update from Propelic on a monthly basis, but every quarter we also include one of your studies. Tell everyone about some of the ones they should look for.

SPEAKER_09 39:16

Yeah, so this is this one that you just mentioned. I'm about to walk up on stage and present it for the closing keynote, and that's really what we saw as the impact to travel behavior over the period of March 1 to March 30, and looking at or 31 and looking specifically at the impact of the conflict in the Middle East, not commenting on the conflict itself, but the act outcome of it. Um so that's one. There's also one coming out on May 21st, and it's all at Propelic.com slash research. Um there's that one, and then there's one coming out on May 21st, which is a much more comprehensive study on benchmarks for customer acquisition specifically on paid media across the industry.

SPEAKER_14 39:49

And the other thing I wanted to ask you, because this is actually my first arrival, Europe. Although I've been coming to arrival for 10 years since it's I was actually to clarify, I was the second ever arrival. I knew Bruce and Douglas, but I came to the second arrival conference, and I've been coming ever since, but always in the US, first time in Europe. From your perspective, Brennan, tell us a little how the European conference differs from what started out for you being in the US side.

SPEAKER_09 40:12

I I mean, it was so funny. We were in the Paris Hotel, was uh in Vegas, which I would say is trying to be like Europe. It doesn't even get close. Um the I mean, like you were there last night, the venue for the for the welcome party was absolutely stunning. That's the wonderful thing about Europe. There's so much history. Um, and I think that that's the difference too with the operators here, is all the operators are really helping people see these parts of the world that have been around for centuries and millennia. Whereas in the States, it's all you know, 250 years is all we have, right? So I and and you know, Canada uh when was Canada?

SPEAKER_14 40:45

Ah, good question. Well actually Brennan has some Canadian team members as well, but uh 1867. Okay. And so uh the interesting fact there is that after the American Civil War, when there was literally a million Americans under arms, that's when Canada decided we should probably confederate and make sure that we uh protect this border, even though it's still the largest unprotected border in the world. But that actually America getting uh over that uh incredibly uh challenging time in their history is what caused Canada to come together. So we are um yeah, 150 years compared to 250 years. Got it.

SPEAKER_09 41:17

You can catch up someday. Yeah, hopefully, hopefully before we become the 51st state. No, no, no, no. No, never.

SPEAKER_14 41:25

Thank you for saying that. Um so obviously we're here, but let's say you're going on stage next. Tell us a few other highlights of being here at this particular conference for those people that are listening to this around the world that have never had a chance to come to Arrival or Arrival Europe. What would be some of the other benefits from your vantage point to come to a conference like this?

SPEAKER_09 41:45

I will index against the other conferences. I think what is special about arrivals compared to others is you truly have businesses of every size here. And it's not just the startups that are trying to be big businesses, you have passion businesses here. And passion businesses are so fun, and that's the thing about tours and activities that you don't get in flights. Absolutely not, because airlines are boring and they're commercial. Here, people are doing what they love and sharing that with other people and monetizing it, making money off of it. So I think that's one of the special things is the energy is just so much better at arrival than anywhere else you could possibly imagine. And then the learning, too, it's staged for all different levels of knowledge in the market. So I think there's really great content no matter where you are in your journey.

SPEAKER_14 42:21

And then some of the insights. Obviously, you mentioned about the presentation you're doing on stage. So feel free to share a bit more about that. But in terms of some of the highlights already from the conference that is unique to the European market, obviously we just had a fantastic lunch all together. You kindly joined us for our multi-day tour lunch, which has actually become a big category for you. So obviously, I was thrilled that you were there. So we have a big multi-day tour focus for the very first time, as our listeners have been hearing and meeting a number of those speakers. And again, I know that's a space that you are active in. And this is very much Europe is the birthplace of multi-day touring. And so it's great that it's finally on the main stage at arrival. We're bringing the right speakers in. And I know that's going to be a big focus going forward. Are there any other developments you're seeing this year in terms of content or some of the insights that the companies here that are sharing or that you are in particular paying attention to?

SPEAKER_09 43:11

Um, I think uh uh to comment on the multi-day piece first. I think that's the most exciting place in travel, period. Right now, and I've felt that way for a couple of years because it is um just just as we saw with vacation rentals first, and then tours and activities, and then now what we're seeing in multi-day tour, there is uh sophistication coming into the market where there might have been a couple of really large players, which has always been the case, which has recently been the case in multiday. Um I think it's like a very prime industry for I don't know if disruption is the right word, but for um for growth and excitement and travel. Uh, in terms of the things that I'm hearing here, I think everybody's pretty, pretty bummed about the geopolitical stuff going on right now, to be quite honest. And um, I I'm glad that we have the ability to provide um some clarity and people can actually look and say, okay, am I performing, underperforming, or or overperforming? Overperforming the market. Um, so I'm excited to be able to talk about that. But that's generally what I'm hearing is you know, things are great, minus this war.

SPEAKER_14 44:07

Yeah. That's just it. I mean, the reality is that the travel industry always goes from crisis to crisis, and you've seen that in your time, and many of the operators here are well aware that you know, travel will come back or it comes back differently. It was very much the premise of why we started the podcast in the first place, as you well know. But it's also the thing that clearly comes up in every conversation. I heard it last night and throughout the day. People are asking each other, how are your bookings? How are your bookings? And everyone's trying to get a read on what's happening in the marketplace. And one thing we can certainly say is that uh outbound from Australia is certainly challenged at the moment. That's sort of one of the markets that if you're really exposed to Australia, we're certainly seeing that those travelers are concerned about fuel prices and are, you know, by and large staying home or canceling trips, they will come back, and the industry is resilient. But there are other pockets of growth. In the US, domestic travel is all of a sudden surging, and Americans are actually going to Canada. That's one of the other bright spots. Canadians are not necessarily still going to the US, but in terms of the report that you shared, what are some other bright spots in an otherwise challenging time right now?

SPEAKER_09 45:07

There's one region that remains growing month over month and year over year, which was litmus test for use as compared to what we'd expect due to seasonality, and it is Southeast Asia. It is Indonesia, it is Vietnam, Thailand, and Singapore were the ones that we studied that showed up in the report, and everything else in the world is not.

SPEAKER_14 45:25

Okay, there you go. You you heard it here first. It's gonna change things with these things. So watch this space and watch for those reports from Brennan. Um, in terms of where Propelic is headed, tell us a little bit more about your plans to grow this business and some of the other industries and verticals you're interested in, and then I want to make sure we leave people with how best to connect with you and the team.

SPEAKER_09 45:43

Well, I'll put it on the record here. There are a couple of very large uh entities that operate in similar spaces to us, um big advertising and media agencies that predominantly work with destinations, which is not our typical market. Um those are huge companies. They haven't innovated in a long time, and what we're trying to bring to the market is everything the right way it needs to be done, given that we are seeing the most considerate and considerable change in consumer behavior in anybody's lifetime that we've experienced. I mean, just one number. We went from 33% of trips being uh touching AI and their planning process to 56% in less than a year. That's doubling and it's reaching it's it's the majority now. And the same marketing tactics don't work. So we're we're bringing the new ones.

SPEAKER_14 46:28

Well, and you mentioned obviously one challenge at the moment is growing with the right people. I know it is a very much a focus for you to have the right culture fit and the right skills. I know many of your team members, Soledad being one fantastic example that does a lot of your marketing, she comes to all the events, she's extraordinary. Your sales team, John Matson, who recently joined full-time, is terrific as well. You know, you've been growing the business in all the right areas. But for those people who are listening to this that want to join that journey, I know I've referred some of my colleagues that now work with Propelic. And so I'm a big advocate for everything you guys do. So if there's people listening to this that have those skills and would fit your company culture, what's the best way to connect with you and the team to be a part of your growth?

SPEAKER_09 47:10

Honestly, the best thing is just shoot me an email, Brennan at propelic.com, and my name is spelled incorrectly by my parents. It's B-R-E-N-N-E-N at propelic.com. So shoot me an email, feel free to connect, and we'll st uh we'll figure out what the best next steps are.

SPEAKER_14 47:22

Okay. And then for uh partners that are listening to this, because I see no shortage of companies uh not only looking to partner with you, but talking about the potential of partnering with you, and you know, they're looking at their existing partners, and I've said this to Brennan because I've seen companies look for a partner like Propelic, and I've seen them review multiple proposals, and I've told this to Brennan uh um directly, and also I've mentioned this to a number of colleagues, having seen his pitches and knowing what the team is capable of doing, they're head and shoulders above anything else that really is in the marketplace today. And so for organizations that are looking for uh a new partner for SEO AGO or AI SEO, paid media, what's the best way to connect with the team? Because obviously I know you're managing the team, you're managing the growth of the team, but you've now got a great team that's also managing those clients. So, what's the best way for them to reach out, connect, and find a way to work with you?

SPEAKER_09 48:17

Yeah, I would say number one, there's a contact form on our website at propelic.com. The other thing is you can also just email me and I'll make sure you get connected with the right person. It's easy, easy as that.

SPEAKER_14 48:26

That is the entrepreneurial spirit. Brennan's based in Austin, and he very much has that like South by like this is tech, this is like we move fast. And it's one of the many things I love about Brennan and getting the chance to see him and catch up. And so, Brennan, one last word from you about your optimism for the future of our industry, especially at this time. So, the question I asked our last panel what keeps you optimistic about the travel industry despite these you know ups and downs that we constantly face?

SPEAKER_09 48:52

Oh, I mean, I think seeing the aftermath, I think after seeing it go down and then right back up and having it shoot up faster than anything else any other industry recovers. I mean, it's it's a resilient, resilient industry because people need these experiences.

SPEAKER_14 49:03

Yeah, absolutely. Well said. Well, Brendan, obviously, you know how much I value our partnership and our friendship. Fantastic to get this time with you here. Good luck with your talk shortly, and I look forward to seeing you over the next couple of days.

SPEAKER_09 49:14

Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

G Adventures On Multi Day Momentum

SPEAKER_14 49:18

Very excited to welcome our next guest to this event, Spotlight. His name is Brian Young. He's the managing director of G Adventures for Europe and the UK. He's based in London, and he actually was just part of our executive lunch for the multi-day tour speakers, and he was on stage earlier today with both We Road and Exotica, and it was a super engaging session. We actually ran over time because it was so much great content to share. And I'm delighted for him to join us, join us now for this discussion. So, Brian, welcome to Travel Trends.

SPEAKER_12 49:50

Thank you very much for having us.

SPEAKER_14 49:53

Yeah, and I'm so thrilled that you're here. I'm so thrilled that you decided to come to Arrival. This is your very first arrival conference, right?

SPEAKER_15 49:58

Very first.

SPEAKER_14 49:59

And obviously, you were, you know, you kindly decided to join given the focus on multi-day tours. And clearly, obviously, I'm a huge fan of G Adventures and I know the company very well. But for those listeners who are not familiar, maybe let's just give them a bit of background on the company itself and your role.

SPEAKER_12 50:16

Sure. Uh so G Adventure's been going for 36 years. It was started by a chap called Bruce Poontip, who's still a founder and owner of the business. Uh, what most people don't know is he actually started off the back of two credit cards. So he had this crazy idea of uh taking people off the beaten path, taking them to destinations, get under the skin of things. Um, but I don't, you know, 36 years ago, I'm not sure everyone was quite into that idea, so I think they thought it was a bit crazy. But Bruce clearly believed in what he wanted to set up and the business that he wanted to create. So that's the fable story of him going out, getting two credit cards, maxing them up, and here we are 36 years later. It's a global organization. Um, you know, it's grown incredible over the last X amount of years. Um, at Sessance, we're a small group tour operator. We saw you know 16 people maximum, 12 on average on any given tour. We uh do all seven continents of the world. We own a ship, which is our expedition, does the two polar regions, which most people don't know about. Um, and we segment all of our travel into styles. So we have like a travel style for young people, which is our 18 to 30s program. We have classic, which kind of encompasses everything for every demographic across the world. We have an applicative program, which, as it says, accent on hiking, biking, trekking, etc. So if you want to climb to the top of Kilimanjar or Base Camp Everest, then uh that's clearly for you at that point. But then at the same time, outside of that, we have a tie-up with National Geographic. So we've been working with those guys for just over 10 years. We've just signed another 10-year contract for the Journeys program, and that's been a phenomenal success for both parties, if I'm honest with you. I mean, they approached us because of the values that geadventures hold and what we do and why we do it, has been an important facet to that relationship. Um, and then recently, in the last couple of years, we've done quite a bit coming out of the pandemic. So we launched a program called Gelux. And Gelux really is uh it's softer active, as in you can do an active adventure through deluxe, but it's where you land is softer landing. So, as an example, instead of a tent when you're trekking or hiking, more like glamping. Um, and we have like OMG stays in hotels that are not necessarily because it's a five-star hotel or high-end, but more because when you get into the accommodation, it might be where it's located that you get that oh my god, where am I kind of feel from it. Um, and that's been spectacularly successful. So it's clearly what we've seen in that kind of like active space is you know, everyone kind of thinks active is for younger demographic, but actually, our active program has always skewed a lot older than people think, and what we found is actually there's a real appetite for people to want to do, you know, adrenaline or active-based travel, um, the way we do it, but they just want softer landing to it, so they want a little bit more creature comforts, I would say, but they still want to push themselves, and I think that's synonymous with the fact that actually we're getting younger rather than older, as a general you know, people generally. So if you think I've been in travel industry a long time. So when I started in travel, there used to be a program called Golden Circle, Golden Times, and it was for 50-year-olds upwards. And it was like, you know, go and stay here for three months to cut down on your electricity bills, play bingo every night. I mean, I'm 57, seem dead near anything like that. My parents are like 70 something, and they wouldn't even dream of going on, you know, so the whole thing has changed so much in a short period of time that as people are getting older, I think they're actually more active now than ever before, and want more out of things and want to challenge themselves. And I, you know, so I think that whole outlook around active has changed, and therefore that's why we've been able to open up, you know, beyond your traditional active and bring older people into it that still active, want to do it, but want that comfort. And then recently we launched National Geographic Signature Tours, which has been one of our most successful launches, and that is really high-end, immersive, you know, full-on, you know, concierge service, great hotels, but at the same time, you know, that demographic that have got the money in which to travel high-end are also time poor. So they kind of want someone to organise everything on their behalf, uh, and they want good quality hotels, uh, but at the same time, more important is the immersion. And I can give an example to that. Is um I had some friends travel on a private tour, it was very high-end hotels, etc., and at the same time they were in India at the same time I was on a G Adventures tour, funny enough. And when I came back, we had a dinner party and we're talking about our experience, and it was really interesting. At the end of the meal, they said we need to go back to India because whilst we stayed in some fantastic hotels, we're in some amazing restaurants. We actually feel like we didn't see India given all of your experience, and I think that's what we bring to that high-end market is community tourism, you know, real feel for a destination while still having the ability to stay in great, you know, accommodations and great service and such like.

SPEAKER_14 55:36

Yeah, that's an awesome overview of G-Adventures. Obviously, you summarized it very well, and you highlighted one of the latest developments, which just to encourage all of our listeners, we recently recorded a spotlight episode with G Adventures focus on National Geographic and the new signature launch, which was very well received. It was a great episode, so I encourage people to check that out. But obviously, now that everyone listening to this is familiar with G Adventures and obviously a bit more about your background, I want to talk about the session that we did today. Uh because you were excellent on that panel as well. And I had mentioned to Brian just towards the end, there was a few things we wanted to share about the takeaways for multi-day because the session itself was the future of multi-day. And it was my last question to the panel about their optimistic view on the future of multi-day. And Brian spoke for a few minutes very eloquently about how bright the future is and the reasons for that. So maybe if you wouldn't mind just sharing from your perspective, what were some of the main takeaways from the session we hosted earlier with Andrea D'Amico from WeRoad and Pere from Exotica? I mean, it was a really all-star panel. Tell us what were some of the takeaways for you, and then also share your optimism with all of our listeners as well.

SPEAKER_12 56:46

Um I think listen, it's it's refreshing to get on stage with competitors in some respects. So just to hear their take on things um and how they see, you know, their marketplace, their customer demographics, how they adapt and change as organisations. So it kind of is nice to listen in, you know, We Road do something very different to us, but they're kind of in the same space, looking at you know, younger demographic as well. So it's been interesting how we look at that space to how they look at it. So that was interesting. But I think the thing that's come out of that for me is you know, about the opportunity. I think we all have different challenges around what we're trying to do, get distribution, technology challenges, product, etc. So I don't think we're really that different, just maybe go about it slightly different. But I think the optimism is just you know, the opportunity for growth of this sector is massive. Listen, like two years ago, multi-day wasn't part of arrival. We're here we are now, and multi-day is being talked about at arrival. You've got you know some number of different companies, lots of sessions on it, so it just shows how multi-day tours as a sector is growing. But our optimism is that you know I've been with G-Adventures 11 years, and uh, you know, at that period of time when I joined the business, whilst it's still a big organization then, a lot of people kind of hadn't either heard of the sector, heard of the company because they still think it was niche. And I kind of feel 11 years on G-Adventures is definitely part of the mainstream, um, and it's that the headroom for growth is massive. We're seeing it, you know, those two products I just talked about launching being our best ever launches. It shows there's a big appetite for it, and I think the rationale for that from my perspective, as I spoke to you know, on the stage there, is I people want more out of their break, they want experiences over stuff. Um, I think there's always a case for you know going away, flopping on a beach and doing nothing because everyone needs a recharge at some point, but I think that's quite short-lived, that in my view, because people get bored. Oh, you know, we've got no attention deficit, you know, the no attention span anymore because mobile phones have kind of wrecked that, social media's wrecked it. So I think people have changed and they want to get out and do stuff. You know, I've got two boys, you know, they're grown up now, but all the time that we used to go on holiday in the past you know, they would get bored of just sitting around on a beach, they'd want to go and do things. Um, so that younger generation, I think, are also the catalyst for change. They want, you know, social media's broken all those barriers to some degree. People can see destinations um before they've even thought about them or gone to them. So I just think you know the world's changing, and people want to go somewhere, create memories, get lasting experiences, meet people, do something different, try something different, and bring that back. And I kind of liken it to my parents. Like years ago, when I was a kid, you know, we'd go on holiday, they'd take photos, and most of your listeners now will be like, I don't even know what he's talking about. Because they used to take photos, get them developed, well no, no, more than that, though. They used to come back these photos in little plastic things, and they'd put them in a projector that would quit ground and project it on a screen, and that's how you they would show like their holiday photos, and now we're a million miles from that, you know. So it just goes to show the evolution of like you know how things change. But yeah, I think you know, from that perspective, I do see huge growth opportunity. I think customers want more. Um, multi-generation holidays is gonna be a big thing moving forward because you know, people don't save for a rainy day anymore, people save so they can go and enjoy life. So that whole putting a nest egg somewhere that's old school. That's not how my kids have told them like, forget it, there's gonna be nothing. You might get a house at the end of it, but we're spending the rest of it on getting out and living life. But I also want to do that getting out and living life with my kids and their kids, you know. That's gonna and whilst my parents are alive, that's a thing as well, because I want them to have memories of things that we've done together over the years and the places that we visited, and kind of true to all of that is ironic, and I know it's because probably I've worked for the company, but my oldest son has been on 8G adventures tours subscribed, kind of played out his boredom of laying around on a beach to wanting to do things and see the world. I see it in him, you know, with what he's doing at the moment.

SPEAKER_14 1:01:22

Yeah, that's really cool. Out of that topic, one of the things that Brian was actually doing a hike, a trek before this, and I actually want him to share that because he is clearly such a passionate traveler himself, and it's something that him and I have connected on since we've gotten to know each other, and clearly, if you're gonna work in this industry, you have to have such a love for the travel experience itself. I want him to share a couple of highlights from his trip that he did just before this because he actually was offline briefly disconnected, as it's so important to be able to do, especially to have that type of experience. So tell everyone this little pilgrimage that you were on.

SPEAKER_12 1:01:54

Yes, so we do a thing called G-Trek for Good every year. It's actually um it started just before the pandemic, and Bruce said to our senior leadership team at the time, listen, guys, you know, we need to be seen to be doing more for Planetera, which is our foundation that creates community tourism projects. So at that point, start to think, okay, what could we do that's meaningful, that kind of represents us as a company as G Adventures, uh, brings people together in a meaningful way that can raise money for Planetera. So the first one of those was Kilimangiro. We've done Mount Tupcal, we've done Lost City and Peru last year to Choque Girao. But this year I've literally just got back from doing the Camino de Santiago, and I have to say, we took 29 people on that trek. We raised$57,000 for two charities, Planetera and also Ab to Lifeline in the UK. And uh, I can honestly say it's one of the best things I've done. The group dynamic was brilliant, even with that amount of people. The trek itself is easy accessible for anybody of any physicality, but a benefit of it is you are out every day in outdoors, soaking it up. You know, one thing for me is always be in the moment, lift your head up and see what's going on around you. And a Camino allows that to happen, and you connect with people in a very different way because you have loads of time whilst trekking, you do 120-odd kilometres, so you you know, that time is precious time when you're just like walking alongside each other, talk about everything, like life, the whole lot, and it it becomes actually more meaningful the more steps you take along the way, and you look back in you know, you kind of look at the scenery and think, Christ, we've just come over that whole ridge, walked all the way down through it, and the stops along the way are great. And the irony of this uh the Camino is you know, you told me about a book that you're reading, which uh there was a film, the way was created off the back of it, and I watched the way before I did the Camino, and that kind of weaves in a story of community and how you build relationships along the way on the Camino. And even though there was a group of us, 29, and we were making our own meaningful connections and getting to know one another along the way. The thing that you find there is you see other pilgrims doing the trek every day, so you kind of get to know those guys, and this there was a real cool moment we'd stopped somewhere along the route, and um, one of our group was talking to another lady, they were queuing up to go to the toilet or something at the time, and um, she said, Oh, Brian, you need to come speak to this lady. She's been on a couple of G Adventures tours, so I go over chat to her, and then she said, Oh, you need to meet my other friend. She's been on 14 G Adventures tours, and it we didn't get the chance to meet that day, but the next day I met her, and it was great, like just to be able to have that conversation, why she'd been on so many tours, what was and that and she'd done a lot of our hiking, and it was that making those meaningful connections, seeing the world, seeing different aha moments whilst on our tours, and she loved you know, and the lovely thing is I did a video and sent it to our owner, Bruce, because he really, you know, when he gets a chance to connect with customers that have been traveling with us a lot, you know, that's precious for him. So he sent a lovely message back that I managed to get to uh really made a day bless her, but yeah, but it was it was awesome. I recommend it to anybody and everybody.

SPEAKER_14 1:05:23

So good. Well, I mean, as we know in this industry, it's all about human connection, it's the reason we do travel, and it's one of the things that inspires us. And when we're together like this in person, it's one of the things that gives us such energy and enthusiasm. And and so I wanted you to be able to share that particular story because to bring us back to being still in Spain, obviously, um and being here in Valencia at the conference. I was also keen to know, um it's just day one, I realized the first full day. I know you're heading off later today. Um, but I'd love to hear some of your observations from being at your first arrival. I know obviously you had a great on stage session, but you had the lunch, you've been meeting a number of people today. Seen a number of people that are through so thrilled that G Adventures is here and you're here to represent and meeting you, Brian. So tell us if if you wouldn't mind sharing a few highlights from your experience so far.

SPEAKER_12 1:06:09

Sure. Um, like you say, it's the first time I've ever been to one of these. Uh, so it's been real eye-opener, if I'm honest with you, because I kind of didn't really know what to expect. Um, but it's bit the lunch was great to connect. There's a few people I haven't seen for a while, there's some people I needed to talk to, which was even better, so that was great. Um, but it's nice to get in a space where there's like-minded and also you know, people that are in our sector from the multi-door tours perspective, just to catch up with those, see how trading's going, how life's operating for those guys. So it's been really good from that perspective. But the other thing that's been really interesting for me, just walking around and you know, trying to kind of understand what's happening, is the amount of like different companies that are in this space doing many different things, and that's actually been quite refreshing to be able to see, you know, just the opportunities that lie here at arrival. So I don't think this will be the first and certainly won't be the last time we come here because I think there's and naturally the fact that you brought multi-day into it, I think you know, multi-day's here now, uh arrival to stay.

SPEAKER_14 1:07:14

I feel like I totally agree with you, and I'm thrilled to hear you say that because they're about to announce today where the next event is going to be in Europe because they're moving on from Valencia. We'll share that in this episode, but it's about it's about to be announced here at the event, and I was obviously thrilled that you're part of the lunch, thrilled that you're part of the session. Given that there is such a bright future for multi-day and specifically G Adventures, tell us a little bit what plans are ahead for you and for G for the rest of 2026.

SPEAKER_12 1:07:41

Yeah, I mean, um key for us is settling down some of the product launches that we've done. So drive in National Geographic uh signature is going to be a core to all of that. The other thing is, you know, I spoke on the stage about how we see marketing for the youth market and some of the changes that we're putting in play there, that we're starting to see some real you know benefit of like how we reach those customers. The fact that we you know we changed the dynamic to using content creators that are travelers, not because of their reach, because they can tell our story and they can tell their story of their experience whilst on a tour with G that really resonates and connects with the customers. So that's been you know part of that journey of this year is you know, revamping about how we connect with our customers, and the important bit for me is it's not like who we are, it's also what we do and why we do it, is really important. Like our vision is you know change people's lives through travel. So we need people to be able to be passionate about that, understand it, and purvey it in a way that brings community, you know, and all of our travellers through that journey. Um, and part of the change for this year is you know, we did a brand campaign called Travel Your Heart Out, which really sings to community tourism, us as a community. You know, Bruce coins um the term community ship, and when we look at community ships about community of communities, it's not just the community that works for G Adventures that's clearly passionate about what we do. We have thousands of suppliers around the world, and it's making sure that they're a key part of our community, that they become passionate about the fact they work with this great company that does change who size. It's not just a transactional relationship, it goes beyond that. And then you think about like how we bring our travel agents into that community and make them feel part of it so they really understand the difference of why we do what we do, and then there's our customers, you know, and then there's our journalists, and we you know, we take a we do a lot to bring that build community and understand of who we are and why we do what we do. GX is a brilliant example. I'm really pleased that you're coming in September. Thanks, bro. It's such a great event, and you listen, you've been with you know, you work with the company, so you go back to the old days of you know G stocks and such lights, and kind of GX is an evolution of what was brilliant, which was G Stock, but that was just a company event in the past. And Bruce always had this imagination of like wanting to make it so much more, and actually not about G Adventures to transcend it beyond just what you know the brand of G and can make it more meaningful. And I think we've really gone and set out on a path with his vision of GX, and now we've created this, you know, unbelievable event that has 700 odd people attending all at the same time. It goes to a destination, it showcases the destination, you know, in an amazing way. It brings community tourism to the very heart of what we do in that so you get to see it and showcase it in a way you know you probably wouldn't be able to see it. And we bring content creators, journalists, you know, travel agents, 110 travel agents. We bring customers along, you know. So customers actually pay to come and join our event, which I think is super special. And then on top of that, we have all of our staff, we have donors, we have VIPs, so it's a huge event. Um, and it's very easy for us. We're an integral part of it, we're passionate. I mean, you know, about our organization, but there's something very special when you can step back from that and just look from the outside in and see 700 odd people truly connect with what we do as a company and feel part of our community, and it's a very different when they leave that. They I believe we changed them in all honesty. They change their perception of what travel should be, they really get G Adventures and why we build community and why it's so important to us. So it's a super special.

SPEAKER_14 1:11:42

Yeah, and I know it's October, it's in Cambodia. I'm so looking forward to being there. We're actually going to be recording a live podcast on stage at the event, which I'm uh so delighted to be a part of. And yeah, my history obviously goes back. Our listeners know that. Uh, to working with Bruce is certainly one of my mentors. I learned so much from him and obviously my time at G Adventures. But also, I'm uh you know thrilled that the company is continuing to do as well as they are, and obviously, you know, to get to have this time with you and to get to know you, Brian. I mean, so uh there's also going to be for our listeners a special episode with Bruce Boontip later this year, once his book Community Ship is released. So stay tuned for more details on that one. But just to conclude, Brian, I want to make sure that any of the listeners can reach out to you, learn more about G Adventures. What would be the best ways for our listeners to do that?

SPEAKER_12 1:12:31

Um, best way is probably reach out through LinkedIn. Uh so I'm on there, Brian Young G Adventures. You'll easy find me. So if there's anything that you need, just reach out through there and then we can get back to you 100%.

TTC On Multi Day Bridges And Tech

SPEAKER_14 1:12:43

Awesome. Well, thank you again for making the trip to Valencia. Thank you for being a part of our session, our lunch, making time for this recording. It's been a delightful experience to get this time together, and I look forward to continuing to see you over the course of the year, and I certainly wish you and the team every success. And thank you for inviting us. Appreciate it. Our next guest is known to many of our listeners. It is Natasha Lawrence, and she is the director of product strategy for the Travel Corporation. She was formerly with Kentiki specifically, but now she oversees all the touring brands. She has been not only on our podcast, but she is a dear old friend of mine and kindly agreed to come to the arrival conference to be a part of the multi-day tour sessions, and she was actually a key part of the opening session here in Valencia. So, Natasha, on that note, I'm delighted to welcome you back to Travel Trends. Thanks so much for joining us here.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:37

Thanks for having me, Dan.

SPEAKER_14 1:13:38

For sure. Tell us first of all what's changed in your role. Obviously, I just introduced you as TTC. I've always introduced Kontiki. There's a great episode that people can go back and listen to about Contiki. But tell us about your new role and what's changed since we last spoke.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:52

Yeah, so um since we last spoke, my role's developed a little bit. I'm looking at um any cross-learnings and synergies that we can take between the brands within the travel corporation. So we've got a big focus on Trafalgar, um, Contiki, and um UniWorld over the next um couple of years. And so we're just looking at whether we can learn from each other, develop product with a different um consumer in mind, and yeah, just keep evolving and innovating on what we offer for the customer.

SPEAKER_14 1:14:21

Awesome. And if for anyone that's not familiar with the travel corporation, we've had uh both your colleagues from TTC that have kindly joined us here. Sarah Hillman has been a part of the conversation, so she gave a great overview of the travel corporation. And then we had our good friend Tom Macklin from Evan Evans, both of those individuals you obviously continue to work with closely. And so I think most of our listeners have a bit of an understanding of the Travel Corporation. But tell us a little bit more about what brought you here beyond obviously my request and to be a part of that session, because you kindly agreed to come to Arrival Valencia. So tell us what are some of the other factors that that brought you here that you were looking forward to being a part of this event.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:00

Yeah, I think um I was really looking forward to meeting the breadth um of suppliers and uh individuals here today and over the last few days. I think it's an amazing conference for bringing, you know, the whole supply chain together uh in a way that you haven't really seen before. So I've spent time with food tour operators in Buenos Aires, for DMCs through Southeast Asia, all the way through to um competitors that we, you know, competitors and with shared notes, shared interests, and um understood the marketplace a lot better. So it's rare that you get to see, you know, the whole food chains come together um and connect on themes like distribution technology, uh, marketing and product, and really hear from different perspectives from all over the world.

SPEAKER_14 1:15:46

Yeah, I like that expression, the whole food chain. And that's certainly one of the things that happens at arrival for the day tour side, is you have all the operators and you have all the distribution platforms and the the the res tech. And it's now happening with multi-day, obviously, partially uh with your involvement as you but when you look at the rest of the group that came together, the 16 speakers. I felt like we had a great representation of operators, and then we had a few other partners like uh Propelic and Tour Optima that joined us for our lunch. I feel like it's just getting started here at Arrival on the multi-day tour side. Now, tell us a little bit about the the session that we uh we were on the main stage together. I've talked about it, but I would love to hear from your vantage point about the session itself, uh what you thought worked out and and what some of the uh the things you shared on stage, because you obviously were an important part of that session. You had many valuable contributions. Uh but tell us a little bit more about that session that we did together to kick off the conference on the main stage, and what were some of the takeaways that you wanted to share with the audience?

SPEAKER_07 1:16:48

Yeah, so we talked about um the opportunities and bridging the opportunities between multi-day and and um and single day. And we tried to talk about um how businesses could go uh in either direction, essentially, and look at the learnings that you could take um from different uh different benchmarks and different uh initial starting positions. So I think we focus a lot on how um a data operator might want to scale, they might want to expand their business um over time, and then we looked at entry points for them to get into the multi-day space, which obviously has um great advantages from a revenue generation perspective, um from a brand control perspective, and from a scaling. So um I think the key takeaways we talked about were if you have a specialism, if you have a theme, if you have an area that you're really owning in your day tour market, how can you expand that into maybe just a one or two night experience? And keeping it simple, I thought I really liked the takeaway of the recommendation of a hub and spoke model for expanding a food tour that's maybe going through um one city out into uh a regional food tour of that area. And then the second entrance point I don't think we got to uh during the conversation was at the same time if you've got a brand that's building really well, is looking for a uh DMC partner to enter another market. And so if you don't want to stay regional, you either almost expand within your region or you take your brand and you land it in another destination as another opportunity to scale up from uh from a day tool to a multi-day. Um, but yeah, it was a it was a great discussion, really, really good um perspectives from different businesses and hopefully food for thought for some of the people uh in the audience and beyond.

SPEAKER_14 1:18:36

Yeah, I for sure, I totally agree. And as you mentioned, and when we started the conversation on Single Day, we had Tom from Evan Evans speak to Single Day and then Joshua Carr from Urban Adventures. And then as I segue over to you, the fact that you had not only developed Katiki product, but Detor as well, which were these shorter kind of three-day itineraries. Josh was talking about how Urban Adventures serves as a great gateway opportunity for people to then discover Intrepid and go from a day tour to a multi-day tour trip. And that's essentially what you had done with Detour as well, with building out these three-day itineraries. Do you want to just share with our listeners a little bit about that uh context? And then I'm gonna come back to some of your other sessions you've attended and some of the other takeaways from the conference. But I think that would actually be helpful for listeners to understand since we've you know been focusing on multi-day on the tracks and in this episode.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:26

Yeah, I think um that we're always looking to convert people to the category, and some of the barriers to getting into the category are that in many source markets, like multi-day touring is perhaps um a lesser known part of the travel ecosystem. And the other barrier is often the price. Um, you know, and quite often consumers are used to buying their holidays in in bite-sized chunks rather than in one big package hit that we offer. So what we were what we've done uh at the Travel Corporation over um over the years is try and develop sort of gateway opportunities into the brands, and DTour was one that we developed with Kentiki um over the last five years and has evolved and shifted into different sort of um faces and shapes now. But the way it kind of evolved was to offer something that um a consumer was going to want to do like ski. So ski weekends has been the easiest way we've found to get people into the brand because it's potentially not a typical multi-day uh itinerary, but it allows you to um capture an audience that you can then upsell and take through the the um the life cycle of the brand. So uh yeah, that's how we were working, that's how we've been thinking about the problem at TDC.

SPEAKER_14 1:20:47

Yeah, that's great. I appreciate you sharing that because this is where from people that are part of the arrival community they can go to the website arrival.travel and they can see the recorded sessions. That one is recorded, so I definitely encourage everyone listening to that that's part of arrival that hasn't seen that yet, or if you're gonna sign up for arrival to have access to it, you can see exactly what Natasha was talking about because that session was really insightful and valuable. It was obviously the one that kicked off the multi-day discussions. And if anything, we didn't have enough time, as you know, because you know there were things were moving quickly on the day, and our session wrapped up, but I felt like the conversation was just getting started. And we had five other sessions, and I know you kindly attended a couple of the other ones as well. I know I moderated a few, and Kimberly moderated a few. Before we talk about the other sessions, the more broadly arrival. What were some of the other takeaways from some of the other multi-day tour sessions that you attended that you thought might be interesting to share with our global audience?

SPEAKER_07 1:21:42

Yeah, I think we had um a really good session this morning on technology and tech stack building, and from different perspectives, we had solution providers um in Captio and Lemax, and we also had um uh an a tour operator called Much Better Adventures talking about building everything in-house and had a bit of a debate behind around the buy or build um uh strategy. And you know, it it really wasn't a one-size-fits-all. I think that um it or the conversation oscillated quite significantly between what makes sense um for you. But the one takeaway that I think stuck with me um was the idea that any technology piece that you're thinking about um integrating into your technology stack, um, you've got to think about does that add value to the customer journey? Does that add value to your, does that increase your conversion rate? Does that increase the um the lifetime value of your customer? And if it doesn't, then there's a should be a bit of a deeper thought on whether you need to build it yourself or whether you just buy off the shelf. And um, I yeah, that one really stuck with me um when you're thinking about the complications of building portals, uh customer portals logging in uh that allow your customers to log in and view their product, guest apps, um, pre-departure um communication tools, uh, travel agent portals, all those other add-ons and bolt-ons that as you scale obviously your business needs, or not always, but sometimes. And um, yeah, I thought that was a good just checkpoint on the decisions that we make along the track as we're uh developing and innovating our businesses.

SPEAKER_14 1:23:27

Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that. And I obviously it was great to have you in that session. I referenced Natasha because we are much better adventures with Alex being a part of that session as well, who's built a lot of these tools in-house. And then having companies like Lamax and Captio and Torreseta. And we actually don't have time to include all three of them in this episode, but I definitely encourage anyone that's interested in the technology side of multi-day to look at those three providers. Now let's broaden out from the multi-day tour side because it's fantastic for me to have you here at Arrival to see what I've seen over the many years as to the types of people that come together for this event. And I'm very keen to get your insights and your observations from your very first arrival experience.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:12

Yeah, I think it's been a conference where I've been allowed to wear every single hat, which has been nice because we've had moments where I've been talking about potential product integration um opportunities around the world. Uh with develop you know, there's some really exciting uh especially food tour or thematic tours that I've spoken to, people in Lisbon, people in Singapore, um, a great chat with someone who's based in um in uh Buenos Aires, as I said. And um they're really evolving this marketplace into something that is, you know, just not commodified anymore, and a lot of a lot of differentiation in a space that people would have just categorized as maybe walking tools or food tools, but you're seeing this breadth and space, and as someone who buys for different markets and different audiences, and I think it's really important to have that differentiation. So I'd say from the ground up, that's been great. Um a good breadth of technologists, and it's not, you know, that's not everybody's here primary role, but I think it's everybody integrated into everybody's role in some way. So you're seeing how um, you know, pain points that happen across your customer journey are being solved by uh businesses that potentially formed quite recently, um, uh as as the ongoing digital digitalization happens of um of the whole ecosystem. And then yeah, there's been some some, as I said, some destination management companies uh who I haven't come across before um in some new, especially in some new destinations, so certainly some contacts there that we'll be um connecting with after this event as well. So it's a good spread that's awesome of uh of who's who.

SPEAKER_14 1:26:04

I'm so glad to hear that because I obviously you know how much I enjoy coming to this conference and was so thrilled that you're able to join us for that. And so that obviously is is wonderfully reassuring to hear. And the other thing, because I've been so tied up with the recordings and doing the sessions, and I know you've kindly attended a number of those, but has there been any other standout sessions that you've attended that have had some really interesting takeaways or some people that you've met beyond what you've just shared that have had an impact on you thinking about how you're gonna apply some of these learnings, taking them back to TTC and the projects you're working on?

SPEAKER_07 1:26:37

Yeah, we had a really uh really interesting session this morning about um women focused travel. And um it's we had some people who were running specifically women's only tours, and then uh there was uh uh a lady from Intrepid talking about having a uh a women-owned supply chain, which was an amazing concept that they have rolled out for their women's expeditions, so that they've got a curated supply chain that runs behind their this specific portfolio of tours, where every every at every checkpoint they're making sure that that uh money that stays in that destination specific stays with the female founders, female entrepreneurs, or women running um small businesses. And uh I thought that you know we're all very fastidious and careful and um conscious in how we contract and develop our product line, but I thought having that real singular perspective was a uh uh an amazing way to think about things, and it's something that we'll definitely take back and consider in TTC about how um we can look at curating that supply chain um in an even more meaningful way.

SPEAKER_14 1:27:50

Well, that's awesome. Yeah, that was there was actually a few women's sessions. I know Lynn, who is the one of the key executives at Arrival, she hosted a win. Women's night on Tuesday night. Did you happen to join that one as well?

SPEAKER_07 1:28:03

No, I didn't get to that one. No problem.

SPEAKER_14 1:28:04

Yeah, I but the reason I mentioned that is because there were several women's sessions, and I saw a group headed to one, I think it was the one you just mentioned, and I was just delighted to see there's so much interest and um for men and women to go and attend that session. As we both know, I think travel decisions, like about 80% of them, are made by women anyway.

SPEAKER_15 1:28:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_14 1:28:23

And so it's actually and it there's so many solo female travelers. There's there's so many trends that point towards the importance of women uh travel. And so just on that note, especially given that you know travel trends is the overall theme of our podcast and you are someone that is so knowledgeable in the industry, share with us beyond what just has happened in arrival in the last couple of days, some of the things you're paying attention to in your role and that you're focused on in 2026.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:52

Yeah, I think we are um focusing on widening the portfolio of our product to incorporate some of the ongoing shifts in interest and and um demographics. So I think certainly what we're looking to do is expand out on our um soft adventure range, and that's um one of the key product development areas that we're looking at as a business. And whether that's having specific adventure tours or it's just incorporating more within our existing itineraries, that's two areas that we have um we've we're really focused on. Um yeah, so I'd probably stick with that for my top trend at the moment.

SPEAKER_14 1:29:33

So, Natasha, one of the things I know about you is that you are an avid traveler. I know you've got two little ones, so obviously your style of travel has changed. Um, but you guys, you and I have stayed connected over the years, and I see that you're on the ski hill, or you know, when you're cycling, you've got and you're such an avid traveler, and being uh someone that develops product, obviously that's a big part of your role. I'd love to know what's on the radar for you, uh, certainly personally for your travel plans, but even professionally as well, as far as you know what destinations you're focusing on.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:03

Yeah, it's um it's a good topic of interest because um yeah, I've got two small boys, uh three and one. And so, yeah, my travel oh my personal travel over the last four years has looked pretty different. Um, but as a colleague kindly told me after I was getting a bit pent up about having pretty um standard holidays, I've got to embrace my resort era. So I'm embracing my resort era where I don't have to pick up cereal at breakfast um short term. So we're going, but we're doing it in destinations that we haven't visited before. So we're off to Sardinia next month. So I'm really excited about that and um had some great tips about uh obviously eateries um there. And then from a professional perspective, yeah, we are looking at some uh newer destinations. Um it's a little bit too early to say uh where we're gonna go, but um, we're definitely looking to do two things. It's either expand what we currently do in one destination, which is often when we get to a sort of critical mass and the the inbound numbers get big enough, we look for a second itinerary. So Japan is somewhere that we're absolutely looking at what more we can do regionally there at the moment. And then it's new boots on the ground in destinations, um, of which we've got about six or seven in the works um across TTC, which hopefully will be coming live, or which will be coming live from October of this year.

SPEAKER_14 1:31:34

Very exciting. And on the resort note, because two we're here, two we amusement, two we actually just joined us for our Sun Destination series. I had them and Club Med back to back, and it actually opened my eyes to the resort opportunity, which was not something that we had done when we our kids were young. We actually have just recently done our first ever all-inclusive sun holiday, and we all actually loved it. And then so if anything, there was a realization, and it was Brian Young from G Adventures when we were on the main stage. He even talked about the fact that, especially with young kids, there is a strong desire to have that type of beach holiday, and that's often what the family needs. But you know, you'll do one beach holiday, then you'll do an adventure trip. So it definitely, whether it's and uh and the Club Med example made me think of you too, because they offer ski trips. Yeah, and so they're you know, son uh ski, and the ski trips they were talking about the fact that you know your kid just gets taken off to the ski camp and the parents can ski together, and you know, just everyone has a wonderful holiday, which is ultimately what you're looking forward to. And ClubMed's known for their family trips. So I think this is that era for you, Natasha.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:40

I've I don't want to tell you how many times I've been on Club Med website in the last six months. So yeah, I'm ready for it. I actually saw the marketing director speak at a conference in London about uh six months ago, let's say, and um he was talking about really understanding his customers, and um, the one point that got me was you send the kids age, uh, height, shoe size, and then you don't have to go to the ski shop. That's right. So that is customer first product design. Yeah. Um, so yeah, he got me on that one. So I'm sure I'll be booking one in the next year or so.

SPEAKER_14 1:33:12

Oh excited for you to have that trip to Sardinia, and I'm also excited to hear where you're planning next. So when you can share, obviously I'll be keen to know because these new destinations, I actually do think in the next few years, so many travelers are looking for alternative secondary destinations, destination dupes. There's obviously a lot of challenges that still remain with what do you want to call it, over tourism. But the fact is that most people visit the main sites, and it you know, we did a session with Get Your Guide where and highlighted that 75% of travelers visit 4% of the country. And so I think there's so much opportunity for people to expand beyond the major hubs and the airports and travel further afield. So I do think in the next few years we're gonna be hearing about cities or s or towns that were not even on the radar, you know, in this conversation we're having now. And I'm excited for that. I think we need that. It's uh um, but yes, Natasha, obviously I'm thrilled that you made the trip down here for arrival. Obviously, it's always wonderful to see you. Uh, I love that we've kept up our relationship and contact. And, you know, I think the world of you, as you know, and our our listeners have heard before. So thank you again for being here and making the time for this conversation. And I wish you every success in the year ahead.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:24

Thanks, Dan, and well done for your enthusiasm throughout. It's been amazing. It's been infectious.

SPEAKER_14 1:34:32

Our next guest here at Arrival Valencia Live is Tom Macklin, the managing director of Evan Evans. He's actually been in a standalone episode of Travel Trends, a very popular episode. I do encourage listeners to check that episode out. He was also part of a spotlight episode leading up to the event here in Arrival. So many of our listeners are familiar with Tom. But I was a welcome in Tom. I'm keen for him to give a bit of background to Evan Evans because this is a conference that he is attending for the very first time. I'm thrilled that he agreed to be here to be a part of the multi-day series because that has become part of their offering. But first of all, welcome back to Travel Chance, Tom. Great to have you with us.

SPEAKER_13 1:35:12

Hi, Dan, great to be here. Thanks for inviting me back.

SPEAKER_14 1:35:15

Yeah, fantastic. And thank you for coming to Arrival and being here in Valencia. Tell us what are some of your observations so far.

SPEAKER_13 1:35:21

Well, it's as you say, it's my first time. I'm very excited to be here. It's absolutely buzzing. Um, so Evan Evans, we have attended Arrival a number of times in the past. Usually our team, Alex, who's our head of sales, comes along. And uh obviously this time I was invited to come and speak. And um, you know, what I found really is that there's everything's happening here, you know, everyone's talking about the future, about the industry, about trends. So, you know, it's clearly a very important event. So I will definitely be coming back.

SPEAKER_14 1:35:51

Now that's awesome. I'm thrilled to hear that. And it means it was so cool to have you on day one, 10 a.m., multi-day on the main stage. We talked about from single day to multi-day. I'd love for you to share with our listeners some of your thoughts on the session itself, some of the things that you came prepared to share, and what you you know, what you thought after the session, because I heard some really fantastic feedback, and I know we could have used another hour to get into all the topics that we uh we could have covered together, but I think it certainly set the stage for the event. What were some of your takeaways from that discussion?

SPEAKER_13 1:36:23

Well, firstly, I think you put together a great panel, and um, you know, I was very pleased to be asked to be on it because you know I was basically representing the data world as part of the panel. Um, and you know, Evan Evans, we've started dabbling in multi-day, and it was great to share some insights into you know how we've kind of entered that space, um, you know, what our approach was and you know, really what our takeaways are currently and what the challenges are.

SPEAKER_14 1:36:50

Well, I loved having you there and having Evan Evans on stage with Urban Adventures, who you know are in the day tour space as well, but they're part of Intrepid, and so their journey, as you heard in our the attendees' experience, is that they went from multi-day into single day. You've gone from single day into multi-day, but you are you know the UK's oldest tour operator. And and when I've I've had the privilege of experiencing a number of Evan Evans trips, which I you know to our listeners, they're a premium experience. I mean, the quality of the coaches, and so tell everyone for listeners who are not familiar with Evan Evans a bit more about the company and the trips that you offer.

SPEAKER_13 1:37:27

Well, as you say, we're the longest established sightseeing operator in London. We've been running since 1933. Um, and uh, you know, we place ourselves at kind of the higher end of the you know scale in terms of premium. And um, you know, we've got fantastic vehicles, transport coaches, you know, brand new, you renew them every couple of years, Aircon, USB, Wi-Fi, etc. And we work with Blue Badge Guides, they hold the highest guiding qualification in London. Um, and you know, they give our guests an absolutely outstanding time. Um, you know, we also have a number of um really premium trips that we now run in terms of private tours. So we do custom and bespoke trips, we do them in Rolls-Royce's, Bentley's. Um, so we have a real range of day trips now, whether it's coach walking, rail, private, you name it, we do it.

SPEAKER_14 1:38:22

Well, you guys won awards, you do a lot of work with concierges. I mean, concierges are highly recommended Evan Evans, and so you've got long-term established partnerships. I wanted to talk about some of the experiences that you offer, though, because again, I've had that privilege to do some of the London tours and also the day tours from London. I've done the Harry Potter tour, for example, and I know uh many people will do the Stonehenge tour. Tell everyone a little bit about your most popular tours and some of the tours that are really unique to Evan Evans.

SPEAKER_13 1:38:51

Well, in terms of popularity, uh, Windsor Stonehenge and Bath is the one that everyone wants to do because we visit all three sites in one day. It's quite a long day, it's 11 hours. Um, but you basically get to experience you know the wonder of Stonehenge and then go inside Windsor Castle, you know, see the State Room, St. George's Chapel, um, and then you visit the Roma City of Bath, which is a lot of people haven't heard of. Um, you know, it's a great addition to the tour because you actually go and see the ancient Roma baths, can't get in them, um, but you can still see the the original uh spa and how it worked and everything. So that's our most popular terms of new things and different things that we do. We've just launched a whole range of afternoon tea experiences, which are actually on a coach. So we've got these two great catering coaches, um, and we run a classic afternoon tea. Uh, you get it served at your table on the coach, um, and then you get a guided tour of London with one of our expert guides. Um, and we're also running it as a brunch, uh, we're also running it as a wine tasting experience with Gusboum, which is the most awarded English sparkling wine. Uh, it's one more awards than some champagnes have, it's absolutely phenomenal. Um, and we're also doing a fish and chips version as well. So you can either go for the fish and chips or go for the high-end wine option.

SPEAKER_14 1:40:09

Uh tell us also a little bit about those multi-day experiences, especially up in Scotland or Liverpool. Tell us a little bit how those came about and what specific itineraries are starting to take for you.

SPEAKER_13 1:40:19

Yeah, so our entry point really into multi-day is there's two main ones. One is the rail trip, so we operate those um throughout the UK. So basically, you can take a trip from London to either Liverpool or Manchester, um, and you can do an overnight stay there, and you get to go see um some of the great sites in those cities. Liverpool, in particular, is a cool one because you can either pick the football theme and you get to go and do a tour of Liverpool football stadium, or you can do the Beatles route. So you get to go, you do a tour, it's called the Magical Mystery Tour, which is an open-top bus. You get to see all the famous sites at the where the Beatles grew up in Liverpool, and then you get to go to the Cavern Club, which is where they first started playing. Oh, of course. Um, but we also do, as you mentioned, Edinburgh. Uh we do like a Highlands um experience, it's three nights, um, and we do that in partnership with our sister brand in Scotland, Highland Explorer Tours. So if you're ever going to um Edinburgh, they're a great uh company to go on a sax scene tour with. Um, and then the other route into multiday that we're doing is private tours. So we um, you know, do custom experiences, um, either small group or we do um private chauffeur, um, and those really can be anything. The most popular ones that we've done are things like the Cotswolds. So you'll take a uh driver guide in a high-end vehicle, you'll go from London, get to go and see a lot of a lot of the Cotswolds villages, you'll probably do an overnight in Oxford. Um, sometimes we also do Cheltenham as well as an option. Um, and really you get to see the best of the English countryside on that one. So that's a great one.

SPEAKER_14 1:41:59

Oh, that's awesome. And one of the things you mentioned there, too, is the fact that with Evan Evans, the you're part of the Travel Corporation, you have the sister brands in the group. And I just want to acknowledge a friend of ours both, Graham Ward, who's based up in Scotland, based in Edinburgh, and he was the one that introduced me originally to Arrival. I was telling Tom that at lunch yesterday, Tom kindly joined our lunch with all of the multi-day tour speakers that have come together for this event. And for many of our listeners, Tom and I worked together for five years. We've become great friends. When I saw him on the very first day, I was delighted that he was here. And I also discovered this is your first time in Valencia.

SPEAKER_13 1:42:34

Yes, never been before. Yeah, lovely city, what I've seen so far.

SPEAKER_14 1:42:37

Yeah, and I'm glad we got this in together because next year it's gonna be Bilbao. How exciting. Yeah. Uh given that this is your first arrival and obviously the experience here in Valencia since we've had some of these evening functions. What have been some of the biggest takeaways beyond the session that you were a key part of? What are some of the sessions you've attended, and what have been some of the uh insights you've taken away so far?

SPEAKER_13 1:43:00

Well, as I mentioned, it feels like everything's going on here. And one of the first sessions I attended yesterday was to hear about trends in terms of how people are searching for travel experiences and how that's changing and evolving, how AI is playing a really important role. And uh so that was a really interesting session for me. Um it was also great to hear from some industry leaders. There was a good chat yesterday with um uh the head of product globally for Viator, and it was great to hear her take on how things currently are and what their plans are moving forward, as they're a key partner for Evan Evans. So there's been some really interesting sessions.

SPEAKER_14 1:43:36

And for you, I imagine there's great networking opportunities given that you know that there's a lot of people you know here, given that this is Europe, this is your, you know, uh a big part of your market. Um, tell us a little bit about the networking side of the event because I haven't had a chance to do much of that given I'm doing sessions and recordings, and usually my focus is being a part of the sessions and and learning. But yeah, from a networking point of view, has there been new partnership opportunities? What what else has stood out to you from being here?

SPEAKER_13 1:44:02

Well, you know, it's funny because um a lot of the people we work with in terms of partnerships are based in London, however, you know, it's quite difficult to see everyone all the time, and uh sometimes people ask, Well, why would you go all the way to Valencia to meet with people that are based in the same city as you? And actually, it's a great opportunity to do it because everyone's here at the same time, and you can basically have back-to-back meetings with all of your key partners kind of in one go. But aside from that, obviously there's other people that aren't based in London that we can get together with. You know, we've met with some really interesting technology companies over the last couple of days because you know we're currently looking at how we you know evolve from that perspective for Evan Evans. So it's been good to see what people are working on, what their plans are, what the opportunities might be for us.

SPEAKER_14 1:44:43

And tell us a little bit about those plans for 2026 and beyond for Evan Evans. Where to from here for you and the team?

SPEAKER_13 1:44:50

Well, one of the key things we're looking right at right now is digital and how we really you know evolve our kind of digital marketing, um, digital guest experience. You know, how can we make improvements uh, you know, with what we do from an operations perspective with tech? Um, so it's a really exciting time. You know, that plus all of the stuff we're doing, the product at the moment with the T-buses. Um, we've got a few other things up our sleeves which will be announced shortly.

SPEAKER_14 1:45:15

Very cool. Now, EvanEvan'sTours.com is the main website. Evan Evan, both with an A, E V A N. For those of you that are trying to key that in. Obviously, you can use any of the search engines to find it. But I want to make sure that any of our listeners, especially those that are looking for partnership opportunities or ways to collaborate with you, what will be the best ways for people to connect and reach out after this conversation?

SPEAKER_13 1:45:40

Well, um, I would say you can find me on LinkedIn, uh Tom Macklin. Um, and also, you know, you can email me at Tom.macklin at evidenevans.co.uk.

SPEAKER_14 1:45:51

And I've got two last questions for you, but I wanted to get that in first. Your upcoming travel plans. Whenever I see Tom, he's traveling. We're connected on the social channels, so Instagram as well. And I always like seeing people doing well in life, and so I'm always happy to see updates from you and the travels you're doing. So I wanted to ask, what are your other travel plans for the year?

SPEAKER_13 1:46:11

Well, uh, funny you should ask, because I'm actually going on my honeymoon in two weeks' time. Originally we were flying off to Thailand, but because of the situation in the Middle East, our flights were cancelled because we were going via Qatar. So we have rebooked instead to go on a cruise. So we're doing an NCL ocean cruise around the Med, which is very exciting because my uh travel career started in the cruise business. Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_15 1:46:32

I didn't know.

SPEAKER_13 1:46:33

So I've been on about 26 cruises. Uh, however, my husband has never been on one, so I'm very excited to show him what that's all about.

SPEAKER_14 1:46:39

That's awesome. And he's keen to see do the Mediterranean, obviously.

SPEAKER_13 1:46:42

Very key, as long as there's sun, he doesn't really care where we go to be honest.

SPEAKER_14 1:46:45

That's awesome. And then one other thing I wanted to ask you too, since you always bring such positive energy, and I see the way the team reacts and responds to you. And I, you know, one of the things I had highlighted when uh Tom was on our episode, there's no there's a few people that I've really kept in close contact with. Tom is one of them, John uh Jonathan Raggett, as many of our listeners have heard, uh, Natasha Lawrence, who's here with us uh today. And so I also wanted to get your take on where the industry is headed and what keeps you optimistic despite being in you know another round of challenging uncertainty with geopolitics. What keeps you motivated and enthusiastic about travel and our future in this industry?

SPEAKER_13 1:47:25

Well, look, whenever times are a bit tougher, what I always remind the team of is that Evan Evans has been running since 1933. So it's been through World War II, through the blitz, and it still continued operating sight sync to us before and after. So if it's managed to do that, then you know, pretty much anything that's thrown at us we can handle. But the other thing is things always bounce back, right? Pent-up demand happens, and you know, after a lull we get a spike. So, you know, we're not really concerned about any kind of you know temporary dips, and we're just looking forward to the future and being super busy.

SPEAKER_14 1:47:54

Any big plans for your 100th anniversary, or is that still a little too far away?

SPEAKER_13 1:47:58

Um, still TBC. We've got uh a few years yet to go, but we'll come up with something fun.

SPEAKER_14 1:48:03

Oh, that's awesome. Well, Tom, it's great to see you here. Thanks for making the journey to Valencia. Thanks for being a part of the session and of course making this time as well for our conversation. Great to see you and continued success with Evan Evans and look forward to seeing you again throughout the year.

SPEAKER_13 1:48:16

Great to be here, Dan. Thanks a lot.

SPEAKER_14 1:48:20

My next guest here at Arrival in Valencia is Roberta Scott, who is the marketing director at the Adventure Travel Trade Association. I really wanted to make her part of this episode since we are the official podcast partner of ATTA. So Roberta and I collaborate on that content, but also she's here at Arrival for the very first time, and there's a lot of overlap between ATTA and Arrival, especially as Arrival gets into multi-day. And we invited Roberta to be a part of our lunch for the multi-day conversations and speakers, which was fantastic. And I really wanted her to join this episode so all of our listeners could learn more about ATTA. So, on that note, Roberta, welcome to Travel Trends.

SPEAKER_08 1:49:00

Yes, thank you so much for having me. Such a pleasure.

SPEAKER_14 1:49:03

For sure. It's great to have you here. I know that you are originally from the US, but you're living over here. So wouldn't you mind sharing a little bit about your background first? And then we'll make sure that we talk about ATTA as well to give people context. But I just thought it was the coolest thing on the very first night here at arrival that I got a chance to see you and meet your husband and the fact you've moved to Valencia. So tell us a little bit about that story first.

SPEAKER_08 1:49:25

Yeah, so I think before I moved here, the last time I saw you pre-move was in at Adventure Elevate North America, Denver. That's right. And when I returned to my hometown of Portland, Oregon, my husband picked me up from the airport in a van with my two dogs, and we drove across the country and flew right over to Madrid and road tripped over to Valencia. And yeah, now we're here. It's been crazy. Working for ATTA, we're a fully remote company, so we can work from anywhere in the world. So very fortunate to have that opportunity.

SPEAKER_14 1:49:57

Totally. It's amazing. It's obviously one of Many great things about ATTA. Let's give all of the listeners here a bit of an overview of ATTA.

SPEAKER_08 1:50:06

Yeah, of course. So ATTA exists to make adventure travel more competitive in the tourism industry as a whole. So we're all about tourism as a force for a good, and we're an association made up of mainly multi-day tour operators and accommodations, as well as destinations, which include, you know, a variety of people that are involved in this sector, industry partners, DMCs, DMOs, you name it. It's probably associated to this industry in one way or another.

SPEAKER_14 1:50:34

Definitely. Now tell us what brings you to arrival, aside from the fact that it happens to be in the city that you now live.

SPEAKER_08 1:50:40

Yeah. So um, yeah, it was interesting because yeah, it's in the city that I now live. Um, and I just feel like it was a really good opportunity to explore a different event. I haven't been to a non-ATTA event where I'm not actively working on the event side in a very long time. So it was nice to just kind of sit back and learn and engage with other people and focus on networking. And yeah, it was a great experience and a lot of crossover.

SPEAKER_14 1:51:06

Yeah, and I appreciate you attended a number of the multi-day sessions. So it was always great to see you in the room. You asked a couple of questions in the sessions themselves. What were some of the standouts, if I don't, if you don't mind me asking, for you uh from the multi-day conversations, and then we'll broaden out to the rest of the conference.

SPEAKER_08 1:51:22

Yeah, definitely. Most top of mind, of course, was this morning when we had that panel of looking at the tech stack, and that's kind of what led into our final session that we had kind of together, where it was like, okay, how can we kind of combine the multi-day fit opportunity with the tech stack and kind of bring that full circle element together? But yeah, just all the multi-day conversations because it's very centered around arrival as really focused on single day um experiences, and now people are interested in trying to scale that to multi-day and what that looks like. And ATTA has always been on the multi-day side. So it's just interesting to see what kind of opportunities and challenges presented themselves there.

SPEAKER_14 1:52:01

For sure. So I mean, I'm that's and that's where I think a lot of the multi-day information and content was and even some of the companies who you're obviously you're very familiar with. But Arrival is so well known for day tours and activities, which is not the same as ATTA at all. That's sort of the one of the special things about arrival. Tell us a little bit about some of the other sessions you've attended or some of the other big takeaways from the event itself.

SPEAKER_08 1:52:26

Yeah, so um, before I was in love with travel, I was kind of my first love was definitely sports tourism and sports in general. And so actually a session that I just came out of was the sports tourism panel. And so I kind of have a little passion project of you know, sports does serve a big cultural element when it comes to the tourism and a cultural explorer and our ATTA research. Of course, we identify our four types of travelers and cultural explorers are a big part of that. And so it was interesting to kind of hear the sports tourism folks up there talk about this cultural experience in the sports world and how that can maybe overlap and creep into the adventure travel space. So that's kind of the latest thing that I'm kind of chewing on in my brain.

SPEAKER_14 1:53:08

Yeah, sport tourism obviously is massive in 2026 with a World Cup happening, and it, you know, but there's been a big talk about festival travel and all the different reasons why we travel and sports has become a growing consideration. And so when we think about uh adventure travel though, I want to come back to that since many of the listeners to this, whether they be arrival listeners or even travel trends listeners, may not be as familiar. Although certainly on the uh travel trends side, we've done an adventure series. We've had uh the CEO of ATTA, Shannon Stoll, join us for a standalone episode, event spotlights, and now we're doing a four-part series together. We just did a fantastic episode together, our first one for ATTA is when uh bad shit happens to good people on holiday, which was a fantastic title. And we had a couple of legal experts help companies understand in this space all the things they need to be aware of to protect their customers and their business when those unfortunate events occur. But tell everyone a little bit more about the adventure travel space and some of the events you guys have planned for this year.

SPEAKER_08 1:54:07

Yeah, so talking about adventure travel, just to kind of set the record straight, we always refer to adventure travel as any combination of culture, activity, and nature. And so that can take on many forms. And so I feel like pretty commonly people think of adventure travel as these extreme sports and things like that. Um, but it can really take on soft adventure, like a culinary experience or you know, a leisurely throw stroll through a museum or a city and just educational focused. Um, but yeah, and then we have our own events coming up as well. Um, most the soonest one that's happening is Adventure Elevate Europe, happening in Catalonia, Adventure Elevate Latin America in Peru. And then, of course, there's the World Summit that's happening in Quebec, which I'm so excited to see you at.

SPEAKER_14 1:54:50

Yeah, September 15th to 17th, and Quebec City. I'm so excited for the Adventure Travel World Summit. The third I'll be uh having the great fortune to attend. You guys run the most amazing pre-summit adventures, and obviously, events are a big part of what brings the adventure community together. I love having the opportunity to attend this. Someone had asked me what's arrival closest to, and I was actually going to say that probably ATTA, the in terms of the spirit, the dynamism, the entrepreneurialism as well, the you know, the smaller operators that come together that have such a passion for this industry in this space. And so for me, these are the two types of conferences where you don't need to wear a blazer, dress shoes, you know, everyone's dressed incredibly casually, and people just are looking to enjoy themselves but get the most business benefit from start to finish of the conference. So I want to make sure that all of our listeners can find out where they can get more information to get involved in ATTA, plan to tend those events, and also get involved in that community. And so, Roberta, what would be the best ways for them to do that?

SPEAKER_08 1:55:49

Yeah, so online at adventuretravel.biz. And then, of course, we're on social media for Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram.

SPEAKER_14 1:55:59

Fantastic. Roberta, it's so great to have you here at this event, and thanks for making the time to join us for this special event spotlight.

SPEAKER_08 1:56:06

Of course, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_14 1:56:11

Our next guest was actually one of our very first event spotlight guests. She was part of our very first focus right event spotlight. Yen Yi Fu is the chief operating officer for Kim Kim. Her and I have kept in touch over the years, and here we are at Arrival in Valencia, and she was on the panel that we just hosted together as we focus on multi-day tour, and Kim Kim, which I'll have her explain a bit more about here in a moment, with the session itself was on FIT Multi-day. And they are a specialist in that space, as well as Evanios, which is based in France. And then we had Michael Herman, who joined us from Tour Connect. It was a fantastic session, but I have the opportunity now to welcome back Yen Yi to Travel Trend. So, yeah, Yen Yi, welcome back.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:57

Thank you. We were trying to remember how many years it was, but it was very exciting to be one of the first guests on your podcast.

SPEAKER_14 1:57:03

I know, I love it. I was just like, it was such a I mean, and that one was really organic the way it came about. And so uh here we are all that time later, still friends, still connected, and obviously now collaborating together and putting sessions together. So uh, but for all of our listeners that don't know Kim Kim, let's start there. Would you give everyone just an overview of the company?

SPEAKER_00 1:57:22

Yes, of course. So Kim Kim is a marketplace and we specialize in multi-day FIT travel. So I know we had discussions about what is FIT and what is multi-day.

SPEAKER_15 1:57:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:34

Um, so for us, FIT is really creating custom uh custom experiences and personalized trips for travelers. So uh we work with DMCs in 90 different destinations uh that put together very authentic and local trips for our travelers.

SPEAKER_14 1:57:51

Would you mind for our listeners uh just explaining FIT and also if you wouldn't mind just giving an overview of the session that we just did together?

SPEAKER_00 1:57:58

Yeah, of course. So FIT I think stands for free independent travel, right? So uh it means that the travelers are by themselves in the destination, uh, and what Kim Kim really provides is that uh authentic itinerary that is designed in collaboration uh with the traveler. So this is a I think a very new space and a growing space uh for the travel industry. So there's lots of words and definitions that we're still sort of locking down. But one of the key things that we discussed in the panel together is just how does distribution work for FIT? Because it's so much more complex than a day trip where you see the product, you know what you're getting, you buy it instantly on the spot. Uh, multi-day FIT is really about creating that trip together with the traveler and what we call the local specialists on the ground and making sure that trip is exactly what the traveler is looking for. So, how do you create one of these trips? Who creates the trips? How do you find the distribution uh for selling these trips? Those are some of the questions that we discussed in the panel just before.

SPEAKER_14 1:59:05

Yeah, so the FIT is such a misunderstood term as you just highlighted. And actually, I think it's foreign-dependent travel, but again, that's what highlights the point. Right. Because they have like and so I uh the term FIT for me is one that I'm hoping the industry will move away from. I think the the closest common uh word is tailor-made. Yeah, tailor-made trip. So customizing your trip for your family, for your group, but then this idea of them being multi-day and so that and and then working with DMC. So we're saying a lot of things right now that are just adding complexity. I I just want to highlight to our listeners one of the things that we talked about in this session was the fact that a lot of these multi-day tour operators, so think of these larger brands like a Globus, they tauc and Trafalgar, they often work with DMCs, which are destination management companies, to operate their trips in a destination. Those destination management companies work with multiple different tour operators, and they offer trips direct to consumers as well. And what's been so clever about the Kim Kim model and Evanios and this whole sector that's been emerging is to give travelers the opportunity to work directly with DMCs. Essentially, you are the conduit to connect a DMC with a traveler, and it takes away that intermediary, which I've been really excited about this category for years, and I think it has so much potential for growth. But part of the challenge is helping people understand that this opportunity exists and that Kim Kim exists, and that these the companies that can create that connectivity. And so, Yoast, who's joined us on the podcast, is the CEO, of course, of uh Kim Kim. You guys have worked closely together for many years. Um I wanted to talk about what you think is really unique about this category because as we've had the conversations about multi-day, this sector is really unique, and I really don't think there's enough coverage on this topic. I mean, it was one of our six panels. I'm so glad we were able to make it one of them. But it feels like it's something that really needs its own stream to focus on. But we had to we had a full house in that room, which was which was fantastic. Clearly, there's a lot of interest and appetite in that. So one of the things we talked about is the growth of that category. So maybe tell us a bit more about the growth that you're seeing that hopefully will interest more people in getting involved in this space.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:19

Yeah, I think it's complex, but I think there is a lot of growth because of demand in the marketplace. So we see travelers uh more and more wanting to travel their way rather than finding a fixed tour uh that they can just buy. They want to mix in their own unique um aspects of the trip. So that's why the the segment is growing. We also see that the travelers who are really excited about creating these tailor-made personalized travel, they usually have a higher budget uh in mind as well. So that creates uh some of the growth and um in the in the segment as well. So both of these things together is creating a lot of interest in this segment overall.

SPEAKER_14 2:02:03

Yes, that's great. And um one of the things, obviously, you being here is since you go to a focus right and go to other conferences, remind me, Yenyi, about arrival and the conferences you've been to. Because Yeny wasn't originally planning to be here. Yost was going to be here, and then so we had Yen Yi, then we had Yost, and then we ended up with Yen Yi on the panel because Yost's uh voice was unfortunately a bit sore. And as I said, I was delighted to have you be a part of that because that was really the plan from the beginning. Um tell me if you've been to Arrivals before, and aside from that, what brings you to arrival conferences?

SPEAKER_00 2:02:35

Yeah, this is my first arrival, believe it or not. Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_14 2:02:38

I'm glad I asked, because I figured that might be.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:40

Yeah, yeah. And I think it was great that you and Kimberly have both been championing the multi-day uh track at Arrival. I think that it was a really relevant conversation to have. And Yost was at the first arrival conference uh last um yeah, October in DC. That's right, yes. Yes, and he found it super valuable, right? So we found connections to partners, um, suppliers. Um, so this time there's actually four of us here at Arrival. So the relevant conversations, finding suppliers, finding DMCs here is really what we are here to do.

SPEAKER_14 2:03:15

Oh, I'm so glad to hear that. That really like it, it uh um I find that incredibly delightful because of the fact that the people that we had together for the lunch and the people that have come together to talk at this event, many of them didn't know each other. They're all here for the first time, and they've realized just how beneficial it is to connect to other multi-day tour companies. So, Yenny, this is awesome. We met at Focus Right here. We had a rival, and here we're doing the multi-day, and we're kind of figuring this out as as we go. I mean, I'm thrilled to be involved in the multi-day, and this is the second iteration of that. The uh next event is in Brisbane and then Spokane, and we'll obviously have to start planning for Spokane after this. Um, but given that it is your first arrival, beyond the multi-day, I would love to hear some of the other observations you've had from other sessions you've attended. What should be your overall perspective on arrival from this event?

SPEAKER_00 2:04:04

I think there's just so much excitement in the in the room. I think everyone is super passionate about what they're doing, the experiences they're providing for travelers. I think that's one of my key takeaways. And just meeting all of the suppliers who we work with very closely at arrival has been amazing as well.

SPEAKER_14 2:04:22

Oh, that's great. And now, obviously, you guys are, you know, you got four team members here, things are continuing to evolve and grow for Kim Kim. Tell us a little bit what else you have planned for 2026. What are some of the the big developments and uh your overall plans going into the rest of the year?

SPEAKER_00 2:04:38

Yeah, for sure. One of the very exciting things is we just launched a new trade program um at Kim Kim. So we are now both B2C direct to consumers, but we are also working with travel advisors very closely. Fantastic. Um, travel advisors also are very excited to be able to collaborate very closely with the DMCs that we curate for the Kim Kim platform. So we've just launched that at the end of last year, so 2026 uh and beyond. We are very excited to continue to grow that.

SPEAKER_14 2:05:08

That's fantastic. And I'm sure many people listening to this will be keen to learn more about Kim Kim and obviously reach out to you directly to Yenye. What would be the best way for people to do that?

SPEAKER_00 2:05:17

You can just reach me at yen ye at kimkim.com. So send me an email.

SPEAKER_14 2:05:22

And that's Y-E-N-Y-I Yen Yi. And so I could um I've never met another Yen Yi, so you're incredibly memorable from the first time that we met. And um obviously I'm you know thrilled that we continue to collaborate together, and I'm excited for what's next for Kim Kim. So make sure that you reach out to Yen Yi, and we need to make sure we have you guys back for Spokane, and we'll be sure to keep in touch as we plan for that.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:44

Yes, sounds perfect. Thanks, Dan.

TTC Data CRM And AI Enablement

SPEAKER_14 2:05:48

Next guest that I am thrilled to introduce you to is a friend of mine for many years at the Travel Corporation. Sarah Hillman is the director of technology for CRM and data, and she kindly agreed to join the arrival conference here in Valencia for the very first time to be a part of a really important panel discussion that I was keen for her to be involved in. And so I wanted to make sure that we made time for her to be on the podcast to share her insights from both being here at the conference and also the work that she's doing. So, Sarah, welcome to Travel Trends.

SPEAKER_06 2:06:19

Thank you. It's been great being here.

SPEAKER_14 2:06:20

Yeah, I'm not so glad. That's awesome. Tell everyone, Sarah, about your role at the Travel Corporation.

SPEAKER_06 2:06:25

Yep. Uh so I'm, as Dan mentioned, Director of Technology for Serum and Data. So I work in a central technology team. Um, the Travel Corporation has around 20 brands in three divisions. So we do everything from multi-day touring, river cruising, through to day touring, and tailor-made tours. Um, and maybe I'm a glutton for punishment, but I work with all of the brands and look at anything that relates to their CRM, customer communications, um, customer engagement, and anything related to kind of data from a technology perspective for them.

SPEAKER_14 2:06:57

Awesome. Thank you for sharing that. And just a little additional context for all of our listeners. I mean, especially those of you that know that my background, of course, was with the Travel Corporation. And when I stepped out to take care of my dad, I've created this podcast, and I think most of you know the history from there. Sarah and I haven't seen each other since that time, and so I was delighted that I was gonna see her again here at the conference. And the 20 brands, it used to be 40, and now it's 20, but obviously it's now been bought by Apollo, the private equity firm. So things have changed. But one of the things that I wanted to highlight about Sarah's role is that she was so well respected inside the organization then, and from everything I understand, continues to be now. And one of the things that I wanted to be her to be here to be a part of is that she was the person that actually all the brands wanted to have the opportunity to work with because you were helping them roll out Salesforce and CRM across the business. So everyone wanted to have access to Sarah, and you have so much valuable knowledge and advice to share. That's why I wanted you to be a part of one of these panel sessions to be able to share from the inside's perspective of a large multi-day tour operator the complexities of the business. And so I was thrilled that you're able to join us. So tell us a little bit about your first experience at Arrival.

SPEAKER_06 2:08:06

Yeah, it's been really, really great. Like loads of one-on-one connections, if I'm honest, which has been fantastic. I think that's one of my favorite, um, favorite things to do whenever I'm at conference is just kind of bounce around ideas, make new connections. Um the session on Monday was really good. I enjoyed it a lot. Thank you. I was like, oh my god, I'm on at the beginning. But um, yeah, so we did a session on connectivity um and kind of it it it skewed, we got great um audience engagement, so it skewed generally into like technology challenges and the future of technology for multi-day touring in general. Um, and so we got to have a really great um engaged audience and a debate with that with uh Tour Radar as well.

SPEAKER_14 2:08:49

Yeah, and it was great. You actually got to kick off. You actually had the very first multi-day tour session, as you mentioned on Monday afternoon. We're now sitting down on Wednesday afternoon towards the end of the conference, which is really perfect timing to get your perspective on the entirety of the conference. Uh tell everyone just a little bit more about the panel, and obviously Kimberly kindly moderated that session. I didn't have the opportunity to attend, I was doing the exec day. There's so much happening at an arrival conference. So uh I was uh sad I didn't get a chance to see you present in that session, but tell us a little bit more about who else was there. And I've I'm assuming Kimberly did a great job moderating.

SPEAKER_06 2:09:23

Kimberly did Kimberly did a great job moderating. Um and then I was presenting with Nick from Tor Radar. Oh, yes, yeah. Um, and so that was really great to have the perspective of like an OTA who's sitting on the other side of connectivity um alongside me. Like he got loads of questions as well, I think, from people who want to connect. For sure. Um and then to have those kind of two sides of the discussion in terms of what it looks like if you're a multi-day tour operator, and we've obviously built our own API with um Tour Radar and worked with them in the very early days, mostly thanks to Dan. Um and then what it looks like in terms of when you're an OTA trying to connect to all the different suppliers and some of the challenges. So we bought those two perspectives, and then we ended up having a great debate on like what's relevant for multi-day touring and the travel industry overall, and like how much you have to do APIs and connectivities to get ahead, whether it's relevant to businesses, um, like their specific markets. Um, we skewed into AI. I feel like it's the topic over the three days. Like, what how what are the opportunities there? What are the different business strategies and where are um as like two quite different companies focusing on AI adoption and what does that mean? So, yeah, it was a really great session.

SPEAKER_14 2:10:40

Oh, that's awesome. I'm thrilled to hear it. I'm all we'll put be sure to watch the session afterwards. And for those people that are tuned in to arrivalarrival.travel, you can sign up and see some of the sessions and which ones are recorded, and you can see some of the transcripts of some of the sessions as well. And I know this is just the start of multi-day, it was in Washington. This is you know the second time featuring multiday. And one of the other things that we were able to do is um Sarah got to take part of the lunch that we organized for everybody, because I was just amazed at how you know you obviously know the people from the Travel Corporation, uh Natasha from Kentiki and TTC, who's here, and then also Tom Macklin, who's been on this episode, runs Evan Evans. So it's nice to see you guys all sitting together and hanging out and enjoying the lunch. Uh, but tell everyone a little bit more about over the last couple of days, what are some of the other observations from your first arrival and some of the other takeaways from sessions you've attended or meetings you've had?

SPEAKER_06 2:11:32

Yeah, I mean, first of all, I love that some of them recorded because so many times I was like, Oh, I want to be in like two sessions at once. I don't know which one to choose. Um, for me, so I'm recently back from maternity, so it was a really great like personal opportunity for me just to be able to get back into the industry, um, to kind of reconnect with people, to understand. Um, so coming from like if I think of myself as a technologist, I had a great debate with some people yesterday about this. Um Like a technologist should have good commercial acumen. So for me, it's really important to understand the industry generally and how we operate in order to make good recommendations from a technology perspective. And so also, even though we're predominantly multi-day touring, to come to something like Arrival, where I can get a much stronger understanding of some of the tailor-made businesses and also single-day touring was really important because we have those business models in our group. And I want to make sure I'm relevant with those areas as well. And I work with those brands from a technology perspective. And so it's been a really nice mix because there's a lot of technology companies here, and there are sessions that are technology skewed, I would say. And then there are these commercial elements where you can make sure that you really understand the industry in general. So, like personally, it was great because I got to kind of reconnect with the industry. Um, and then also I had been given a list of people to speak to and kind of make connections with and solutions to investigate whilst I was here by my counterparts in the travel corporation. So I've done some investigation and kind of reported back on that as well.

SPEAKER_14 2:13:07

Oh, that's awesome. I didn't realize that. I'm thrilled to hear that. And um, yeah, because I have such a great respect and affinity for the tra the travel corporation, the team, and the brands there, having spent, and you mentioned Tour Radar, because it's incredible to think uh all those years back when we were trying to make all the tours bookable on Tour Radar and the journey we had been on and you know, Tour Radar being a big part of the conversation, Nico, the uh uh uh chief technical officer over at uh Tour Radar joining your session. But let's tell everyone a bit more about some of the other things you're working on. And obviously, I was so excited you could be here. And I was gonna mention, of course, you're coming back from maternity leave because uh the timing obviously worked out great, but uh it's uh you are literally just back. You've had a beautiful baby girl who's now just uh like 14 months, 15 months. Yeah, that's amazing. And so as you've just come back from maternity leave and are getting up to speed with uh all the changes, yeah. What are some of the big projects that you guys are working on that you could share that are kind of relevant to the discussions that we're having here?

SPEAKER_06 2:14:07

Yeah, so um as I mentioned, we were recently bought out by PE, so it was fun for me to come back because the business was very different um than when I left, but then also the travel industry generally um is transforming, I think, really quickly, as is technology. So I was very much like, oh, everything is changing so fast. Um so we have got some really fun big projects at the moment. A lot of it is around AI adoption, it's just coming so fast. Um, and it's okay, maybe some more boring like back office data stuff. There's like a lot of basics on if we get our data really clean and it's done really well, and we're at the tail end of some of those projects and even basic stuff like how can we automate the UX better for our users, which means that they don't even have to worry about it, um, so that we can utilize AI and then across the board, I would say. So in sales, we're looking at like how can we do better, make our account managers smarter. So we're using AI to like plan their visits to travel agencies, um, and they have a cool mapping tool now, which is quite it looks pretty as well, which is always good. So they love that. Um, and then like uh giving them targeted information on like what sort of messages they should be um pushing out to travel agencies and if they've got bookings that need to get across the line, and then we look at similar from a res perspective. So, but we started to do engagement scoring of our customers, so we connected all of the data from customer across web and email so that we can score like how like how engaged are they with the brand, which for us looks like um how likely are they to book, and you can really easily identify customers that are kind of getting stuck, yeah. Um, that might need a human to kind of help them, like maybe they don't understand something about the product. So those um are kind of the projects that are just coming live now, and then we've got to kind of build on all of that and um start to utilize. I think the next steps is like how can we utilize we've like brought the data together and how can we really utilize it in terms of looking at so we on Monday we had a discussion about attribution models. Um, how can we refine and improve how we look at attributions so we can refine marketing spend? Um, yeah, there's lots, there's lots, lots coming.

SPEAKER_14 2:16:16

It sounds like many work streams that you're trying to decide which ones you're gonna pick and lead. Yeah, one other question on this topic that'll be helpful for many of our listeners is that uh to and to demystify the travel corporation a little bit, that uh and obviously things will structures will continue to evolve and change under private equity, but in terms of the structure of the group, just remind us again that there are three verticals. And the reason I wanted to highlight is that you know, for uh companies that are listening to this that you know see opportunities to partner together, and that's obviously one of the big benefits of being here at the conference. Um remind us how the group is structured in terms of those 20 brands.

SPEAKER_06 2:16:53

Yeah, so we have three three divisions we would call them. So um the biggest division is predominantly multi-day touring. Um, they are now doing a little bit of river cruising as well, which is super exciting. Um, so they've we just launched in April our first river cruise with customer sailing.

SPEAKER_14 2:17:12

Yeah, with Trafalgar. Yeah. A couple of the Uniral chips came over and became Trafalgar, very cool.

SPEAKER_06 2:17:16

Um so but predominantly they're multi-day touring brands, and they we have what we would call open age, and then we have a specifically a youth brand called Kintiki, who are also under that group. Um, the second division is then predominantly river cruising, but luxury river cruising, and they're doing a little bit of luxury multi-day touring now as well.

SPEAKER_15 2:17:35

How about that?

SPEAKER_06 2:17:36

Um, but their market is predominantly a luxury market, US inbound into Europe. And then our final division is what we call SNA, Specialist in Activity. Um, so that covers predominantly our tailor-made tours, day touring sits um, and as summer venture travel all sits under that group. So there's I would say slightly more disparate, or there's like a little cluster of different um brands within that third division, but that's the the biggest is multi-day touring, and then um the luxury slash river cruising division, and then um SA. Um still very important, Tom, don't worry.

SPEAKER_14 2:18:12

And Tom obviously was just here on the podcast. You would have heard from Tom as well, who sits in that third um sector of the business. But uh and TTC touring obviously has been kind of the uh the heart and soul and what drove the most of the revenue for uh the business over the years, and it's obviously still remains that uh key part of the business that you and the team are focused on serving the technology for kind of primarily.

SPEAKER_06 2:18:36

But you're now we kind of have like ratios, and that's how we divvy up like the amount of like resource that brands might get. Um and then sometimes we also look at like how can we devolve a little bit of ownership into the brands if we feel like they're not getting quite enough attention, then we can think of them a bit more control.

SPEAKER_14 2:18:53

Got it. Okay, that's a really helpful. And then one last question on this, and then we'll move on, which is if people are trying to connect with TTC, um, this is a question that I um get asked quite often, and so I thought it'd just establish it now for our listeners. If they're trying to find a way to work with TTC, are they best to work on a brand level or are they best to work within those three categories?

SPEAKER_06 2:19:14

I we would tend to look at everything within the division. So um, like I said, occasionally we look at brand-specific tech, but mostly we'll be making decisions at a division level. And then sometimes we have solutions that we would call like enterprise, which sit across all of the divisions. But yeah, I definitely would recommend that generally we're looking at a fit for a specific division.

SPEAKER_14 2:19:35

Got it. Okay, appreciate you sharing that. Now, obviously, one of the things you're getting up to speed on is where the industry is headed, not only these projects. And you've had a couple of days now to kind of get a sense of what uh where the industry is. Um, what are some of the things that excite you coming back about the industry that we're in? As there's been a lot of positive energy here over the last couple of days and a lot of enthusiasm despite the somewhat challenging geopolitics that we're contending with again at the moment. But um, what are some of the things that you personally are uh optimistic about about the travel industry and the things you are going to be working on now that you're back in the game?

SPEAKER_06 2:20:11

Yeah, I mean the energy is so high here. Like I walked in this morning and the room was like buzzing, and I was like, oh, this is what I love about the industry. It's like that like buzz and have a and obviously for me, I obviously go to like a lot of technology and data conferences, and they are not not as buzzing, guys. There's also no tech bros here, which I uh yeah. So um, so that has been just that's been really great because I think it is really inf infectious and inspiring. Um for me, it's been really great. Like I went to Octo session yesterday, and that was really interesting actually, because to see what those guys are doing in activities in terms of standardization of APIs, and it seems like such a dry topic, right? But it's really game-changing, I think, in terms of like it makes everyone in the industry better. And I sort of came out of the session, I was thinking, oh, how can we do that in multi-day? Like that would be really cool just to like have to remove all of those pain points across the industry in totality, and I feel like that's where I'm super excited now. Is like where I don't want to be like harsh, but where historically I feel like occasionally multi-day touring and activity has been seen as like the laggards of the travel industry, for sure, you know, like the airlines can be a little bit snooty about us, um, or like I've had like sometimes I was working with a company, they're like, Oh, we're not a travel company, we're a technology company, and I was like, Oh, that's sad because you should want to be a travel company. You come really like coming back, and I think because AI has kind of disrupted everything, it feels like a cliche, but that's a reality. Like, you can get stuff done way faster, and some of the like basics are really there in terms of like people understanding what they need to do and the basics, and then they can really accelerate. I'm I feel like it's like our time in terms of there's a lot more potential to be like much more connected from a customer experience perspective, and much less of that kind of old, slightly older school, like, oh, I have to ring and confirm everything and come back to you. So I'm really excited about where we can go in terms of like the customer proposition and kind of being like more of the maybe not early adopters but mid-level adopters of technology in terms of like really accelerating the industry as a whole and like our little sub-branch of it.

SPEAKER_14 2:22:32

That's awesome. I can certainly see it in you and sense it obviously from your voice, just to actually the and and coming back from maternity leave and being around people again and being around people in the streets. So uh clearly you love this industry, you love this space, and so I'm I'm thrilled that you've enjoyed being here. Uh, the other thing I wanted to ask you, Sarah, since you know you have now a daughter, and I know when our kids uh came into the world, our travel changed, but we still continue traveling, and I had the privilege over the years to take trips with many of the travel corporation brands. We did African safaris, we did UniWorld trips with uh multi-generational, which a number of companies now that talk about multi-generational travel. And credit to Ellen and the team. They've been doing multi-generational, like two trips that they had focused on to two ships and two specific itineraries that they had created multi-day multi-uh family itineraries for, and we absolutely love those experiences. So I'm sure you're coming back and looking at the brands a little differently of thinking about family travel. Um, but let's finish with what you have planned for personal travel with your daughter and husband and what some of the trips you'd like to be able to do going forward.

SPEAKER_06 2:23:35

Yeah, I mean, we were historically like adventure travel people. Yeah, I know. That's um we were dog sledding in the Arctic Circle, and I will admit that our first trip we went to Ireland and we did stay in a nice hotel, and then um I booked as a yurt in April with a three-month-old baby, and I did not consider how cold a yeurt is. My husband was like, maybe not a yurt in April for a little while. So we had like a mini adventure in that respect, but certainly I just I just didn't think about it.

SPEAKER_14 2:24:07

Which um so we were I love that because I think I really think that like that. My view, and so the kids just have to go with you.

SPEAKER_06 2:24:14

You just are she's definitely coming with us. Like, I don't think we we're slightly older and we're kind of in that mindset of like we've we've had a lot of fun and we've had our time, and like now we want to do things with her because she is um really fun as well, and it's more like um. So I'll tell you a funny story when I got pregnant. Uh we had a holiday to the Galapagos, and I was a bit devastated because we obviously had to cancel it. And my mum was like, You can go to the Galapagos with a baby, and I was like, Don't be ridiculous, mum. And she's like, I'll look after the baby. So I was like, Hold that to her now. Um, we're not going to the Galapagos, but I have said to Mum, I want to go diving, so you're coming with us. Um, and basically two of us will dive, and one of us will look after the baby and we'll take turns.

SPEAKER_15 2:24:56

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_06 2:24:57

So we are trying to do it, but it looks very different, and we're very specific. Like, I didn't realize how specific I was gonna be about hotel room down. Like the bed has to be big, we have to have a separate room, we need a little kitchen, so we're definitely changing like where we stay. I don't think we'll be back in a year for a little while.

SPEAKER_14 2:25:12

Well, the Galapagos, I just wanted that's not if your husband can avoid it, right? It's just like I think it sounds like you'd still go again, why not? It's just like uh the um Galapagos was the big trip that we had didn't had done after uh I had left Travel Corporation and my dad had passed away, and we had kind of been through that challenging time, and we went to the Galapagos because it was a destination that really is about life, death, and renewal. And we I chose it very intentionally uh for our kids and our family at that stage, and it was has turned out to be the most memorable and meaningful trip that we've ever done. The kids, and that's from the kids' perspective. I know how I felt about it, but it came up recently as the kids were talking about their best trips, and they were saying hands down the Galapagos was their best trip. So I would say, if anything, save that. Um, you can do it twice. I go with there's the two of you, and then go back and bring her along. But I think uh that would be one for one to for her to enjoy when she's a bit older and can actually appreciate the experience.

SPEAKER_06 2:26:12

There's something, and I think like what I love. My husband is not from the travel industry. When I first started traveling with him, like I realized how jaded you can get when you're in the industry, and he just was so excited about everything that we saw. Yeah, and now we get to do like Piper is at a different level, that's my daughter's name. Like she's excited about ducks right now, but it's still really nice to like see travel from her perspective, and then you remember like I love the industry because I love everybody, the people in it, and who works there, and then you really remember like why you do it when you see someone who's like traveling for the first time and like how inspiring it is. And then I'm always like, Yeah, don't get jaded, like always be amazed everywhere you go.

SPEAKER_14 2:26:49

Oh, that's awesome. Well, I know you're such an active traveler, so I can you know I I'm glad to hear that that continues. And obviously, now that you've got Piper, and she'll just go along with you. And obviously, I'm thrilled to see you again. I wanted to wish you uh Piper, your husband, you know, every success going forward, and uh obviously you and your role. I w I also want to make sure that our listeners, since so many people were delighted that you were here and part of the event, uh, for those people who are listening to this and were like, no way, Sarah Hillman, Travel Corporation, tell everyone what would be the best way to connect with you after this so that if anyone does want to reach out.

SPEAKER_06 2:27:23

Yeah, reach out on uh LinkedIn. So I already see if some people have pinged through LinkedIn. If you're still, I'm still pretty active on the arrival app um as well, whilst it's there. So I've been messaging a few people this morning as well. But yeah, I'd say arrival app for the next day, and then after that, LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_14 2:27:37

Awesome. Thank you, Sarah. Great to see you again. I appreciate you making the time to come to the conference for the first time, being a key part of a very important panel, joining us for our lunch, making time for this conversation. Wonderful to see you again. Yeah, wish you and your family all the best.

SPEAKER_06 2:27:51

Thank you. Thanks.

SPEAKER_14 2:27:55

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another live recording here at the arrival conference in Valencia. Our next guest is a newcomer to the arrival conference, but I'm absolutely thrilled that he's decided to join us. He is the chief marketing and product officer at Exotica, Ju Duran, based in Barcelona, here in Var Valencia with us. Welcome to Travel Trends. Great to have you with us, Juan. Thank you, Dad. I'm uh so glad that you're hosting me here. Yeah, for sure. So I obviously was really keen for Exotica to be a part of this. I've gotten a chance to know you over the last year, as well as Pere, who will be on this episode as well. But for those listeners who are not familiar with Exotica, which I'm amazed given how great your marketing is, but tell everyone a little bit about the brand and the background on Exotica.

SPEAKER_05 2:28:44

Okay, so uh uh listen, yesterday we had a great session here in a breakout, and uh Kimberly, the moderator, was asking me, How would you what's Exotica? I said, Well, I don't know, right? So I know what we do, which is we create great trips, uh, we create them, and uh we sell them. We sell them direct to consumers, we sell them B B2B, we sell them at scale, right? So I guess this would make us a tour operator that uh has a great technological platform that allows us to do things in a very efficient way, fantastic experiences, fantastic trips, and uh very affordable.

SPEAKER_14 2:29:19

Yeah. So, exotic, I want to highlight this for our audience because given that Wanyo is the chief marketing officer, one of the things that I've highlighted to him and to many of our listeners is just how impressive the commercials are that you've been running. As and as I've come to understand, they've only were initially running in Canada, now they've expanded to the US and the UK. And I encourage any of our listeners, especially those of you who are interested in multi-day and wrapping your head around marketing in this category, especially as that's a big focus here at Arrival. And Wanyu coming here for the very first time to Arrival to be a part of the multi-day tour sessions. He was part of a panel yesterday, Perry was at part of the opening main stage session, so it was fantastic to have the Exotica team here represented because they're such a big part of the multi-day tour industry globally. And what's really unique is their brand positioning is very much focused around transformative travel. And it's one of the things I had said to Wanyu after seeing the commercials, and sure enough, some of our other colleagues here were like, Yeah, that got forwarded to me from a colleague from mine. So they're familiar with your marketing and your messaging, which is very focused on transformative travel experiences. So tell us a little bit about your marketing and your messaging, and also what markets you're focused on.

SPEAKER_05 2:30:29

Okay. Um listen, I think uh we had a conversation very early on at Exotica. So listen, what what do we believe in? I I'm uh my background I've been consumer goods. I'm a I'm a sort of brand builder, I'd say, after uh so many years. And uh in my experience, when uh you start thinking about what's our beliefs on uh on the category and uh on the on and what we do on the the the the way we want consumers to experience our our products and this category, you you come to really strong brands. So, what are our beliefs? We are here to uh to make these dream trips affordable and accessible to everyone, right? So actually, we believe that the world would be a better place if people would have traveled more and visited more of other places. So we may want to make it very affordable and very accessible to uh to everyone. We also believe that uh life sort of starts when uh you leave your comfort zone and uh when you leave your daily routines, and this means leaving your country, living your uh your daily stuff, going places with your family. Uh now we are talking a lot about three generations, having three generations experiencing and transforming their lives through travel, it's one of the most rewarding things that we can uh that we can do. We believe that um people now want to collect feelings and not uh just landmarks or postcards. So in social media now you can see literally anything, right? So before you would see a nice picture of Tourefell and you would be impressed. Today you're done with that, right? You see thousands of them everywhere. But uh you cannot replicate having goosebumps, losing your breath, right? Getting wagged under the Eguazoo uh waterfalls uh while uh you are in the on the on the barge right underneath, right? So this is something that you will always remember, right? And that's the starting point of the bra. Right? I believe the world is about experiences now, right? It's not anymore about postcards, it's not about uh collecting uh landmarks, it's really about what you feel, right? And uh this is the way we are designing our trips. We call it uh I asked my team, so listen, there are no three wow moments, we don't have a trip. So tell me which are the three wow moments of what we have designed, and then I'm challenging to how do you express these wow moments, and then I'm challenging the tech team to come and say, Listen, how are we gonna show these wow moments on our web? Right? So everything starts at a very deep purpose and strong beliefs.

SPEAKER_14 2:33:01

The other thing I wanted to ask you too is the markets that you sell into, because that was the part that I found really fascinating, where here in Europe now you are a train ride away from home, you know, going back from Valencia to uh Barcelona, but the US and Canada is by far your largest market, and you work with a lot of trade partners. So you started direct, but tell us a little bit more about the markets and also the trips that are the destinations that you primarily focus on.

SPEAKER_05 2:33:27

So today 75% of our sales come from uh North America, mostly US, and uh seven uh fifty percent uh US, another 25% Canada. Then uh our third market is uh UK, another 15% of our sales, then would be uh Spain. We are also present in Germany and uh France, but now our fifth market it's becoming uh Mexico, which uh we are uh we are booming there. And uh the next one will be Colombia, so we are planning to be uh to grow very fast in uh in Latin America. When it comes to Our most popular destinations. There's been a swing, obviously, with the world as it is, though this is changing every day, right? So traditionally we have been very strong in the Peru, for example, Portugal, Italy. Now we are having Japan, China, South Africa growing very, very quickly. So literally, we're happy because we are very well spread across all continents. Um we do very well Africa, we do very well Asia, we do very well uh Europe, Latin America as well.

SPEAKER_14 2:34:30

And one other thing I wanted to highlight is that one of the big developments for your business was working with trade partners. Yep. So one of the big topics here has been distribution. And even though you started very focused on direct to consumer and have really strong marketing, you've seen a real increase in travel agent bookings. Tell us a little bit more about that because I know a lot of travel agents listen to our podcast and might be interested in selling exotic if they're not already.

SPEAKER_05 2:34:54

Yeah. Again, the the starting point, I believe, is that um we should be present where people buy these sort of trips, right? So we want them to be accessible. So uh yes, we started with uh direct to consumer because we were sold, we're starting to be selling our products on uh on web. But selling our uh our products requires uh also uh a significant amount of support and explanation because people want to hear it's a high ticket, so a trip for two would cost about five thousand dollars on average at uh at Exotica. So it's uh it's a journey that takes about uh three to four weeks to reflect, to check options, and to uh eventually decide. And it's most of the time supported, so we have a call center to to support. And what we said is uh listen, if we want to serve well our our travelers, uh who better than the travel agents to do to do that. So uh already four years ago we started creating our own organization to work with travel agents in the in the US. And uh today already 30 to 40 percent of our sales comes through uh through travel agents. So we are having we are extending our technology, uh, we have great conditions for them. So it's been a partnership we are very proud of.

SPEAKER_14 2:36:11

Yeah, and it's so important. I think that's one of the aspects we focused on our conversations in the panel discussions here, is just how important trade distribution is for multi-day. I mean, many of the day tour operators here at Arrival are very focused on OTAs, online travel agencies, given the value of a day tour being more of a hundred or two hundred dollar purchase compared to two thousand to five thousand for a multi-day tour. The OTAs don't successfully sell multi-day tours, haven't really embraced it, with the exceptions of you know companies like uh Tour Radar and some of the but the reality is the big OTAs don't do multi-day, but the traditional travel agencies sell a significant amount of tour products. I mean, I was at the Virtuoso conference recently, and they were highlighting that 70% of their sales are tour, not cruise or river cruise, but 70% are tour. And so, but to bring us back to why we're here, and obviously I'm thrilled that you're here for the very first time. I want to talk about your observations from your first arrival and the session that you were involved in as well. So tell us, obviously, we know each other. I encouraged you guys to come. So my question to you is why you're here. Obviously, I know part of the answer to that. Uh, I invited you guys. I was delighted that you agreed to join us, and both yourself and Perry that our listeners will hear from in a moment. But tell everyone what your observations have been so far, and maybe some of your initial takeaways from being a part of your very first arrival.

SPEAKER_05 2:37:35

Uh listen, I understood much better what uh arrival was when I heard Bruce in the opening stage at the opening day at the stage. Basically, he was saying, listen, um, there is a big place for all of us to meet, which is Focus Right, but Focus Right eventually it becomes so big for uh for accommodation, so big for uh for airlines that uh eventually experiences and uh and multi-day tours become the uh the smaller part of it. And uh and therefore I I fully understood that because this is how I felt when we have been in Focus Right, right? So you you you are interested in certain parts of it, obviously, you are interested in general topics for uh for the industry, but uh I think it was missing. So we were we missed being part of this industry, and uh exotic has grown very fast over the last years. We have been very busy uh creating and selling, and uh we didn't take much time mingling with uh with the industry, with people like like you, people with our with Travis from from from To Raider, right? So from other people that we have met here. So it I think it was very timely for us to start uh showing at arrival. And uh and my takeout is uh that we have a great future on uh on multi-day, right? So uh I think the trends it's going again. So we come from an awful heritage where we were calling these package tours or uh we don't even have a name, right? But they were strict, they were uh packed of activities, they were more focused on visiting a lot of places that on allowing leisure time for uh for uh for travelers to to enjoy. I think that when properly designed, and I think we are hitting the the the the the the nail on the head in uh in this sense, we will have a bright future. And I think that's another personal opinion that LLMs will help us there because with the type of prompts that uh people will be will be having, they will be asking, listen, I want to take my wife and two kids to uh safari in uh in Kenya, and uh LLMs will eventually suggest a multi-day tour, not necessarily, okay, do it yourself, right? Book five hotels and uh two flights and a ton of activities.

SPEAKER_14 2:39:40

For sure. And tell everyone about the session you were a part of yesterday. Kimberly obviously kindly moderated that session. There were six sessions for all of our listeners on multiday. I moderated four, Kimberly did two, and we collaborated on putting that content together for this, which was come together really nicely. But tell us what your experience was on the panel and what some of the takeaways were from that session.

SPEAKER_05 2:40:02

Well, actually, I must say that Kimberly did uh fantastic uh uh work uh planning very thoroughly the uh the session. We had uh a couple of great conversations before to really penetrate the real issues, not uh staying too superficial, right? You you can read a lot nowadays, right, on LinkedIn. What really matters is to really penetrate uh the opinion of uh of the experts. I had the chance to uh to share my panel with uh Guillermo X and Goiti from uh from 2EM Amusement and uh from Manuel from Nathasa. And uh I think we really touched the nerve on the conversation about um which are the when when the connectivity is falling apart and uh in in an industry where we have to stay very well connected, I think we have to be disintermediated but stay very well connected, like for DMCs and operators, and uh how the lack of standard technology is making it very, very complex, right? So normally it should be about commercial agreements. So listen, I make we make a deal, I give you a percentage of what you sell, and that's it. And then that's distribution, right? Over the years. Today it's far more complex because nothing is standardized. Every each one of us is using our own systems, and therefore um reselling it's becoming really complex.

SPEAKER_14 2:41:22

Well, and I was sorry that I wasn't able to attend that session. I was double booked with a recording. I knew Kimberly would do a fantastic job, and obviously it sounds like she did. I mean, that's another powerhouse panel to have Nazaza, Twee Musement, and Exotica, just to highlight those three companies again and the individuals involved in that conversation. The other thing I wanted to ask you when you know when you think about the future of Exotica and involvement in arrival and conferences like this, what is kind of your plans going forward? Is it no I know they just announced the next destination, which is Bilbao, and you obviously are based in Spain, so it's a little more accessible for you. Uh tell us a little bit about Exotica's future plans to be involved in the industry and conferences, given obviously that was one of the uh insights and takeaways from this from this event.

SPEAKER_05 2:42:07

Yeah, no, we are happy to be part of uh of this. I think there are uh a number of uh we were talking about the complexity of this uh of these type of uh trips. I uh just anecdotally, my experience as uh CMO at uh at the Dreams, obviously we were commenting uh all sorts of verticals as uh potential uh ways to increase our revenue and our margin. And uh we had all those all sorts of topics on the table like rental cars, cruises, uh activities, etc. And whenever someone mentioned multi-day tours, it was totally shut down because oh no, no, no, that's far too complex.

SPEAKER_15 2:42:41

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_05 2:42:42

And uh and and it's true, it's complex, right? And I think that's one more reason to be together because uh at the end, uh the big opportunity we all have is to make the pie bigger, right? I uh I think the starting point is we are not competing, we're just helping each other.

SPEAKER_14 2:42:57

Yeah, that's the most important point that I wanted to underscore at this conference with the multi-day tour operators who are here, because many of these companies compete against each other in the marketplace, but the real opportunity is to expand the category, exactly what Juan Yo just said, which is there's far more people that are taking cruises today and in other sectors that really would benefit from taking a transformational guided multi-day tour. And that's why I referenced that commercial that I definitely encourage everyone to look up, find on YouTube, because you'll see that represents what I believe is the type of experience that most consumers are seeking today from any one of these companies that are offering adventure travel. You know, many people are familiar with G Adventures and Intrepid, and you know, they are both here at this conference, but as you've heard and seen and are a part of, there's a bigger industry beyond those two, and everyone is growing in this category. So just on that note, Wanyo, tell us a little bit about the future plans for Exotica. What else do you guys have in store for 2026 and even looking forward to 2027?

SPEAKER_05 2:44:00

Well, our our journey is that of uh the we we know by now that the model uh the model works. We have uh optimized our technology in uh in a way that uh is turning the company already uh profitable and uh growing at a very fast pace. And uh the plans are to continue with uh with that. We have created an acquisition model through you were mentioning our uh our TV ad in Canada. We have been uh testing the model during the last three years and it works. We are rolling out now in the UK and and and Spain, so this will accelerate our sales there. We are expanding now in uh Latin America, and uh the big one for us will be to roll out our successful model in the US. As I said, US continues to be our biggest market, it's growing fast. We are growing fast with uh advisors, and we expect to double down now with the rollout of our model in 2027.

SPEAKER_14 2:44:55

Our next guest is the CEO of Exotica, Pera Vallas is kindly joining us for the very first time at Arrival here in Europe. He kindly agreed to come as you heard me speaking to Juan Ho just a moment ago. So I'm thrilled that he's also joining us to be a part of our travel trends podcast. Pera, welcome to Travel Trends. Great to have you here. Thanks, Lan. Thanks for having me. For sure. I was so thrilled that you could be part of our opening panel and what a Titan of Industry panel it was. Obviously, having you as part of that along with G Adventures and We Road as well on the main stage was truly fantastic. I got so much really valuable feedback from people afterwards about how much they benefited from that session. I know we ended up overrunning a little bit. Um, tell everyone about that session. I thought we'd just dive right into that because you had so many valuable insights to share. So tell everyone about the session that we did and some of the key points you wanted to share about the journey that you're on with Exotica and what brought you to arrival.

SPEAKER_04 2:46:00

No, thank you. I think it was great. I mean, uh I think the the the other speakers, no, uh Brian and Andrea, no, and and companies like G Adventures and We Road are are companies that uh basically are very significant players in the multidator package industry. So having them on stage and sharing our views on the industry. I think one takeaway is that there was a lot of optimism uh around multidator packages and the future of the of the market. It's uh it's a segment of the travel industry that is growing uh very fast. Uh, I think it has significant tailwinds. Uh people want to live uh more experiences, and obviously travel is going to be a big beneficiary, but we think travel uh really the place where you live these meaningful experiences when you when you go uh to other countries is is multi-date to package. Is the adventure that really allows you to immerse in new cultures and learn um basically now about new countries?

SPEAKER_14 2:46:56

Yeah, that was exactly as Pera just said, is the end of the conversation. I asked everyone about what they're optimistic about, and it was really fascinating to hear from each of you, Andrea and Brian as well, about what makes you so optimistic. Would you mind sharing? You mentioned tailwinds, that's a great way to express it. Is that there is you know, there's obviously the changing demographics, there's a huge interest. I spoke to Juanio about the fact that the marketing that Exotica does is so strong. You and I have spoken about this. I've mentioned to our listeners about the commercial that I really encourage all of our listeners to go and check out to really understand the brand proposition of Exotica. But tell us a little bit about your optimism for this category and where you're seeing the growth as a CEO for this business.

SPEAKER_04 2:47:37

So when I look at our industry at the macro level, uh, what I see is that on the one hand, you have very strong demand. Uh, if you look at the demand side of the business, it's growing uh at a higher rate than GDP, uh, and it has been doing so for many years, and it will continue doing so over over the future years because of these tailwinds regarding people wanting to live more experiences. And then when I look at the supply side, basically at the cost of the components that go into a multidigold package, uh prices are growing uh at a significant lower rate than inflation. It's true that there are times when there are oil shocks, like right now, that price might go up for flights. But in general, if you look at historical trends, um traveling uh today is much cheaper than it was 10 years ago, much cheaper than it was 20 years ago, and significantly much cheaper than 50 years ago. And this plays well also into Exotica's strategy, which is to make this type of experiences that before were affordable only for a small minority, affordable for uh a middle class, uh majority type type of customer.

SPEAKER_14 2:48:38

And that I think right there is one of the most important points that you shared on stage. You talked about affordability. And I know that the core concept, and I shared this just with our listeners, was I asked Juanyo to stand up and share a point in our breakout session this morning. He wasn't actually part of the panel, but I knew he had a valuable point to share. So I asked him to share, and he he referenced the background of Exotica being focused on offering a tour package, but to be able to do it as a flash sale. So for you, the pricing and the promotional approach has always been core to introducing this type of travel experience. But one of the things that we were talking about afterwards is the fact that when you look at the cost of a trip to Disney World, for example, and this came up after our recording with Wanyo, and I thought I'd bring it up in our conversation now because of the fact you talked about affordability. A family of four can't do a trip to Disney World for under$10,000 anymore. By the time you get flights, hotels, your passes. And I mean for families who afford a$10,000 trip, obviously that's a real premium. But the reality is if you have$10,000 to spend on a trip, there's a lot of other places you can go, Japan being a good example. And one of the things that I think is really compelling about what Exotica provides in the marketplace is affordability. And I really I'm really glad you mentioned that because I really think that that is what has the greatest potential to expand our category and make it available to everyone that actually doesn't think this is accessible for them. Is it actually? So tell us a little bit more about that strategy at Exotica about affordability and where you're seeing the growth in the market today.

SPEAKER_04 2:50:18

Totally no uh our objective is uh just to give you a price point, uh, is to bring down the cost of a trip uh be for between a hundred dollars and two hundred dollars per day per person, everything included. This includes the flights, the hotels, uh, this includes um uh basically the activities, the transfers, the transportation, everything. So if you think about a trip of uh maybe two weeks, uh 14 days, uh it would be$1,400 uh dollars. Yeah, it's amazing uh per person. It can go up a little bit more in certain destinations, but on average that's what we are targeting. Uh so really people that were doing uh all inclusive or we're going to Disney or we're we're going basically to closer destinations, all of a sudden now with these prices, they they find out that they can discover the world, no, uh and they can do a different type of trip that they were doing. Maybe a more I would say a more fulfilling type of trip, no? A trip where you learn uh about new things, you experience uh new cultures. Um you you basically you discover the world, no? Uh and and basically the objective and really what drives us uh every day is we want uh a normal person uh with an average uh life, uh an average family to be able to have uh an experience like basically 50 years ago, only very few people could it.

SPEAKER_14 2:51:37

Yes, and then and then this is the other connection between what consumers are looking at today is truly transformative travel experiences, but it's not something that is just for uh wealthy, affluent travelers. The idea that you can create transformative travel experiences for the middle class and for the wider traveling audience that wouldn't think that they would go to a place like Peru. And and that's why I wanted to ask you about some of the growth markets. I know and Juan you highlighted that 75% of the business is USA and Canada, which came out of the conversation you and I had dinner in Sevilla a year ago, and I was so intrigued to meet you and get to know more about Exotica at that moment, and so many things you shared with me stayed with me, and that was one of them. Not only the reliance, uh the importance of North America as a market, despite the fact your company is based in Barcelona, also uh the fact that you're focused on trade partners. And so one thing I didn't cover with Juan Yo that I was keen to cover with you is the markets that you send travelers to. And I remember you telling me that Peru is a top destination. But tell us a little bit more about what are your top destinations for 2026.

SPEAKER_04 2:52:42

So it's uh honestly it's incredibly diversified. Yeah, we have uh 80 destinations, a destination for us as a country. Within each country, we have different products, different itineraries. Um the top destination right now is Japan. Uh Japan is uh I think it's a one-in-lifetime opportunity to travel to Japan now because uh the yen uh has depreciated a lot against the euro and against the US dollar, against the Canadian dollar. Uh, under four is it's really affordable, it's really cheap uh to go to Japan now. But Japan right now is our number one destination. Uh Peru is number two, uh, China is number three, number four is South Africa, number five is Egypt. So very all over the place. Uh I never would have expected China would be number three. Yeah, yeah, it's uh it's amazing. Uh there's a lot of interest uh for China right now, especially more, I would say, from our European customers, more than the North American customers. Uh, and then there are always new destinations, no, new things that become all of a sudden popular, no? Uh Uzbekistan uh it's is is is a growing uh destination. Albania uh is growing uh quite well, Madagascar uh is doing well as well. These are smaller but fast growing uh destinations, and and and they're becoming increasingly popular. Korea, uh, because of all the Korean uh pop culture, no? Uh but um again in terms of destinations, we are uh super diversified. We have um almost everything uh for anybody, uh and and we have different types of trips also.

SPEAKER_14 2:54:08

Well, one of the things when you talk about that diverse portfolio and especially destinations that where the US dollar or the euro goes a lot further. So the affordability, once you get the flight factored in, which is so important, many operators don't include flights, and that's the one thing that's unique about Exotica's offering. And that was certainly one of the takeaways of the feedback that I was mentioning that I got from our session was that how unique each of the brands were, we rode uh G Adventures and Exotica, that you serve slightly different customers, but you have different brand positioning and different marketing strategies. And I think people realize they open their eyes to the fact there's these three really successful companies and they're all taking different approaches to growing the marketplace. And many of them ultimately are complementary, and you know that's a big focus for me, the idea of Blue Ocean strategy that we expand the category, and I firmly believe that that actually is what a lot of the marketing that you're doing has the potential for. But when we think about these destinations, one of the benefits is that you can take people to an emerging destination or a market that their dollar goes a lot further. So packaging the flight is obviously important, but also these destinations. What would you say is a challenge when it when it comes to getting someone over the line with taking this type of trip? I know in the cruise industry there is the perception for those people that, and I'm actually one of them that it's kind of not a never cruiser, but I'm I don't necessarily want to be on the water. It's not my preference. I um and so they struggle with getting people that don't think cruises are for them to actually consider a cruise. What do you think are any of the challenges that we face in the multi day tour space to convince people to take one of these trips? I know one of them is the idea you're gonna get herded around by someone in you know in a coach with uh a large group with a you know w waving a flag. That's the old style of touring, and that's not what Exotica does. So tell everyone about what the challenges are, about the Perception of the category and how you guys are overcoming that.

SPEAKER_04 2:56:02

I think it's what you what you said. They have this perception that I'm going to be stuck in a very large group of with with the same people, and I will have breakfast, lunch, and dinner with those people. It's semi-escorted, which basically means that basically there's someone that will go with you and it will basically take you to certain places and certain activities you will do with the group, but there is a lot of free time where you can do things on your own and and you can basically go uh outside the group and explore the destination on on your own. Um and and basically it's and and then and and the other thing that people sometimes don't don't know is and it's affordable, no? All of a sudden I see a price and it's more or less what I'm already paying for my vacation, but I can do something outside the United States or outside Canada, and I can really uh discover the world.

SPEAKER_14 2:57:02

Yeah, that's great. And and this is why it was so important to me to have multi-day a part of Arrival and just hearing those valuable insights you just shared there, which are not often understood outside of our sector. And certainly it is substantially different than the day tour operators that exist uh that come to Arrival. And so to bring us back to why we're here in Valencia, I would love to get some of your initial observations, given it is your first time at Arrival, and you bring that knowledge, the scale of the business you're running to this discussion. And I can already see from our lunch uh that we had all together with the speakers, some of the dynamic forming amongst the multi-day tour community, the realization that we should be in better contact, we should be facilitating discussions together because we can collectively learn and also expand the category. That was the big takeaway for me when everyone talked about how positive they are about the growth. They also talked about more collaboration because the realization once you meet someone, you're no longer this, you know, formidable competitor exclusively that you have to be overly concerned about because you start to realize that you're actually targeting a different market. And so tell us a little bit about your first observations from arrival.

SPEAKER_04 2:58:13

So I didn't know what to expect, no, uh, because it was my first time uh here and I knew it was a very young uh conference, no? Uh, and I was uh pleasantly surprised because it was very well attended. Uh and I would say they became high-level people in the in the key players, no, no. Uh and and it's what you said, no, uh, once you meet face-to-face uh some of your competitors, no, uh uh you realize that there are even opportunities for collaboration. No, uh, we all uh target different segments of the market, we have different approaches. We have the opportunity to learn from each other, no, even though we might be competitors, and and the market is so big, no, that uh in the end I think there's opportunity to grow uh for everyone. I I think this is the opposite of a winner-takes all type of market, no. There's uh a huge market where multiple models uh that are different uh can work and can succeed. Uh so I don't think there is uh a single recipe for success in this uh in this industry. And then the other thing I like about arrival is that unlike other travel conferences where uh day tours and multi-day tours are a very small and and are a very niche and and are not the most important part of the conference, this is very focused on on what we do.

SPEAKER_14 2:59:25

Yeah. And the other thing I want to ask you too, beyond the um the multi-day tour side, just being at the arrival conference amongst this community, and as you mentioned, like it is you know, it's buzzing in here, that it's one of my favorite conferences by far. I just love the people and the energy. And uh but that's I'm keen to get your take on any other sessions you might have attended. We've seen each other for the course the last couple of days. Uh, but has there been any other sessions you've attended or any other meetings you've had that have been just interesting, thought-provoking about what's happening in our space here at Arrival?

SPEAKER_04 2:59:55

For me, the most useful part of the conference has been uh outside the presentations and the interactions, the one-on-one interactions that I had with companies that are in our space, you know uh learning uh how they see the market, uh what are they doing, uh how are they reacting, for example, to the Middle East uh conflict, no? Uh all the information uh firsthand from key players with whom we share market and we share uh opportunities, uh I think it's been it's been fantastic. I've met people that I had exchanged emails with them for the last uh eight years, but I had never had the opportunity to meet them face to face. No, having the opportunity to sit down with them, have some coffee, and talk uh in a relaxed way, no, about the business, about the industry, I think is invaluable.

SPEAKER_14 3:00:41

That's awesome. I'm thrilled to hear that for many reasons. Obviously, working on the multi-day tour content and bringing together such an extraordinary group of industry leaders. So I'm truly delighted to hear that. And it sounds like, based on that, you'll uh likely be back at Bilbao in the April 2027. Is that a fair assessment? Absolutely. Absolutely. Fantastic. Well, I want to finish off coming back to Exotica and talk about your plans for 2026. Uh uh Juan, you'll obviously just before this highlighted some of those. Uh, but I'd love to hear from again your CEO vantage point. What are some of the big developments for Exotica? What should people look forward to hearing about new products, new destinations, new markets, new technology developments? I know you got a lot of things you're working on.

SPEAKER_04 3:01:25

So, in terms of uh uh growth, we are focusing on expanding in into Latin America. As you said, 75% of our business uh comes from uh North American customers traveling to the 80 destinations that we have worldwide. In Europe, we we're strong in in the UK and Spain, and now basically we want to expand into Latin. In terms of technology, we're focusing uh our efforts on two things. One is uh AI, uh like everybody else. Um and basically how how to be more efficient uh so that we can bring down prices, um, which is again uh it plays well into our affordability uh positioning. No, uh, and secondly, how to improve uh through AI uh customer experience, uh and how to enhance that experience uh both uh before the trip and at the destination. So that's those are the big projects. And then finally, in terms of distribution, uh we continue growing uh through partnerships uh with both uh traditional travel agencies and OTAs. Um so we basically want to have as much distribution as possible so that everybody can have access to our products uh the world uh at an affordable price.

SPEAKER_14 3:02:32

Yeah, that's great. I appreciate sharing that. Um one thing I want to just actually ask you on a on a personal note, just to wrap up our conversation, is your travel plans beyond the business conferences and everything else you have planned. I knew you're gonna be in New York soon. And uh, you know, as you mentioned, North America is such an important market for you. I was so impressed that you actually know Canada as well as you do. When we sat down at dinner that night, you know, all the main Canadian cities and the different source markets, the travel agencies. Actually, you know what? Let's let's uh let's add that question in just before we do um uh wrap up on a personal question. Distribution with travel advisors. I would love if you wouldn't mind sharing because that was so fascinating. And we did uh multiple sessions since our opening session talking about distribution. And you were the one that was really well positioned to speak to the fact that you started as B2C, you expanded into travel agencies. Would you mind sharing a little bit more on that journey and how important and relevant you see travel advisors here in 2026 and beyond?

SPEAKER_04 3:03:29

Yeah, we we we I don't come from the travel industry. I I I come from with a tech from I had a technology background and I come from from the software industry. And and honestly, when we started Exotica, we were all a bit arrogant about um uh maybe it yeah, we we were undervaluing the role of uh travel advisors. No, we thought uh listen, this is another layer of intermediation, they don't really add a lot of value. But very quickly uh we learned that uh they do add a lot of value, you know because they have the trust of the customer, they are the people the customer talks to when uh they want to travel. They even recommend where the customer should travel because they know the customer really well, no, and they know what the what the customer likes, what the customer doesn't like. So we realize very quickly that listen, uh we need to find a way uh to work with travel advisors because they are they they're they play a voter role uh in the value chain, and and we need to them to be our partners. No, and and basically what we're doing uh to partner with them, we're offering that is different from traditional tool operators is that instead of giving them a big brochure with uh very nice pictures and then a telephone number that they need to call to get a quote, we give them a platform, uh, and through the platform, the trial advisor, as they uh speak with the customer, can generate real time uh a proposal uh that fits basically the customer's uh needs and requests. So we help basically the trial advisor to be more efficient uh because we have a platform that they can use to uh come up with uh proposals right away. Uh, and we help them also convert um opportunities into sales uh in a in a more in a more uh efficient way.

SPEAKER_14 3:04:59

That's great. I wanted to make sure we covered that because that is something that is quite different than the day tour and activity market, is the need and opportunity for travel advisor distribution and the savviness, and it's and you mentioned obviously um sharing your background, which I was familiar with from our conversations, but for our listeners, just to wrap their head around the fact that you quickly adapted the business once you realize the value travel advisors. I'm sure so many of them listening to this are gonna be you know just delighted to hear that because they know what they know why they exist and they know how important their role is and to realize they still remain valuable. So I'm sure as a result of this, there'll be more travel advisors that will likely be reaching out to start to consider having Exotica products if they're not already part of their host agency or consortia to start selling Exotica. But I was truly amazed at the number of partnerships that you've already have. So I know this is a big strength. Um, but just to go back and finish on a personal note, para, what is your big trip for 2026 yourself with your family? What else do you have planned on a personal level, putting work aside for a moment? What keeps you motivated, inspired? And what we're next on your list?

SPEAKER_04 3:06:08

So this is one of the the perks that we have uh when we work in the in the travel industry, you know, that we can that we can travel the world uh also uh with our families on holidays. I just came back from a family trip to uh to Japan uh during Easter uh with my family and my extended family, with many people. Uh we went to Japan. It was it was incredible. I had never been to Japan before, and and it was it was just amazing. Um and for the summer, I'm going with my wife and one of my daughters to Argentina and Brazil. I I have already been in Argentina and Brazil for work, um, but it's not the same going for work and going uh on vacation, no. So I'm really looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_14 3:06:47

Oh, that's fantastic, that's awesome. And there's nothing nothing better than traveling with the family. So I completely agree. And um obviously I'm looking forward to seeing you when you're across in the US and coming to Canada next time. I just wanted to say a thank you again, para, for joining Arrival for the very first time, being a part of the important discussion on the main stage, joining our lunch, making time for this conversation. Obviously, I think very highly of Exotica and what you and Wanyo have successfully built and continue to evolve and grow. And I definitely encourage all of our listeners to check out exotica with twocs.com and to be able to reach out to their team if you are interested in partnership opportunities or just booking your next trip. And on that note, para, safe travels and look forward to seeing you again soon.

SPEAKER_04 3:07:28

Thank you very much, then.

SPEAKER_14 3:07:32

Our next guest here at the Arrival Conference in Valencia is a business development manager at Protect Group. His name is Will Holmberg. He is based in Leeds in the UK, and many of our listeners know Protect Group is a big partner of Travel Trends. So I'm thrilled to have the opportunity to sit down with Will. Many people know Steven on our podcast. But today I've had a chance to meet Will, and I wanted to bring him into our discussion so he could share a little bit more about Protect Group, what they're working on, and what brings him to Arrival. Will, welcome to Travel Trends. Great to have you with us.

SPEAKER_11 3:08:03

Dan, thank you. Pleasure to be here at Arrival in Sunny Valencia. It's my first time in Valencia and Arrival Europe, but I've been attending for a few years now. And um, yeah, excited to have this conversation together.

SPEAKER_14 3:08:16

Yeah, no, that's fantastic. And I love that you mentioned Sunny Valencia because that's one of the things that appealed to me about being here as well. This is my first uh arrival Europe. So tell everyone though, before we get into the conversation about the conference, a little bit more about Protect Group for anyone who's not familiar with your company.

SPEAKER_11 3:08:33

Absolutely. At the core, we make non-refundable bookings refundable. So a really simple way for operators to offer a little more peace of mind when they're selling bookings online, no matter the uh tour category. We also offer a range of travel extras that might apply to flights, whether you're booking a hotel or a multi-day um multi-day tour. Um, we've yeah.

SPEAKER_14 3:08:57

And Protect Group, one of the things you guys are known for is the because Protect Group is not traditional travel insurance.

SPEAKER_11 3:09:04

That's right.

SPEAKER_14 3:09:04

It is a financial services product. I've learned this from Steven over time, that uh, but it is a very important part of our industry, which is this idea of being able to cancel and be able depending on a customer's preference. So tell us a little tell us a little bit more about the product that you offer and the companies you work with.

SPEAKER_11 3:09:23

Of course. Um we work across any experience, whether it be a football match, soccer, you might refer it as, um, flights, hotels, essentially anything where a consumer might hesitate to book and they would uh probably convert if they had a bit more uh flexibility. Uh, we can position refundable bookings and other uh protection products like flight delay, baggage delay. When you think about, you know, you put on the news on TV, nothing really is making you confident to book travel or anything these days. So um we're seeing conversions really increase overnight. Uh any kind of announcement, uh whether it be the war or potentially your flights getting cancelled uh for a holiday that you've booked this summer. Um, so we work with dynamic pricing, try to understand a bit more about the traveller. Is there a is it a solo person, a family, a couple, and based on that, we should probably price a little different. Um, you know, someone who's booking a trip uh for tomorrow might not pay a typical price. So having a rigid product is is not really the the way that we've gone. Instead, a dynamic that that tries to understand the person, what they're booking, right price, right time. Hopefully they convert.

SPEAKER_14 3:10:34

Well, I'm sure many of our listeners, whether they've bought a ticket as a good example that you just shared, uh, to a sporting event, there's always the offer now of some type of insurance. And you're absolutely right that there's never been a more important time in the travel industry to make sure you have insurance coverage. It's really interesting uh that it's a category that is the travel industry, is a very highly regulated industry. Travel insurance is not something that companies can mandate the sale of, it's up to a customer to make that decision. But every travel agency highly recommends it, not only because there's a commission incentive, because obviously this is a B2B podcast, everyone understands how our industry works, and you know, you do make revenue off ancillaries, and that's very important for travel agencies. But ultimately, it's really in the customer's best interest, by and large, because of the uncertainty. And I know Steven talks about the anxiety of travelers today, so that you have that comfort level that you pay for that additional coverage, and then you know that you have the option to essentially cancel for any reason or uh have your trip protected. So great that you're here at Arrival. Tell us a little bit more about what brought you here this year and what you've seen for Protect Group of some of the benefits of being at Arrival Valentia.

SPEAKER_11 3:11:47

Awesome. Yeah, we've been attending since pre-COVID. Um I'm here to support Steven, uh, my colleagues as well in the Tolson activity space, meeting partners from operators to the Restechs, hearing their feedback is always always nice, good or bad. Try to take the feedback uh back to the office and uh see what we can improve on. There's obviously so many niches, uh, whether it's a water-based activity or something else, um, their needs are vastly different. And yeah, we we try to support those. Uh so yeah, here to meet new partners, share what's what's next uh with Protect Group on the roadmap, um, understand what we can do a little better and uh observe lots of experts here, of course. And um yeah.

SPEAKER_14 3:12:27

And given your background that you've been to Arrivals before, I'm also keen to know because you've likely attended some of the sessions, what have been some of the other developments here at Arrival Europe from the main stage sessions, some of the research that's been shared, or some of the breakouts. What are some of the other sessions you've attended, and what are some of the other observations or insights from from being here and being part of the event?

SPEAKER_11 3:12:49

Without going too much into AI, which is really interesting. I think the uncertainty gap, uh Propelic did uh did some really interesting research that I was um learning about yesterday. Uh kind of ties into what we're researching at Protect Group with booking anxiety. You know, travelers really want to travel, but they're seeing higher search in some destinations and and less conversion. So that that intent is really there. Of course, I think the typical peak season is definitely changing, the swings are changing. Um having spoken to many operators, it's also clear that those who are offering very flexible bookings are seeing their lead times um far wider and more advanced than those who have what we call strict policies. So, yeah, that that booking anxiety uncertainty gap um all really ties in with uh refundable bookings and and protection.

SPEAKER_14 3:13:37

Yeah, I heard a number of people raving about Brennan's session yesterday. I mean, he's been on our this podcast. People are very familiar with Propelic and his team and how successful his digital agency has become and continues to grow. So it's it's terrific to see and to hear that feedback because you know him and his team put a lot of time and effort into those reports, and it is very timely for the industry to understand what's happening in with the Middle East and how it's impacting travel. And so that obviously has been a standout. Has there been any any other sessions you've attended that are worth highlighting since many of our listeners will have access to the platform if they belong to arrival, and if they haven't, you make sure that you are signed up at arrival.travel and become part of the arrival community to have access to the recordings. Any other because for me, I've been out here recording, I've been doing a few panels myself, but I actually haven't had the opportunity. That's one of the things I love about conferences like this. I typically prefer to sit in sessions, learn as much as possible. Is it any other standouts from uh from your experience last couple days?

SPEAKER_11 3:14:38

Yes, uh, Christian at Magpie, uh gentleman at Tallyhoe going really deep into AI. I think Harry as well from Groupon, and uh yeah, no matter what your level is, um showed you what you should start with right now, uh whether it be Claude co-work or just using Chat GPT on a basic level. Um, you know, they have the advanced sessions, the basic sessions, in middle, mid kind of sessions. Um yeah, so I think the AI that that's it's 2026, so that that was quite interesting for me because I don't use it too much. I try not to, um, but probably should a bit more.

SPEAKER_14 3:15:11

Well, it's interesting you mention AI again because when we were last together in Washington, our last event spotlight, we had a special day on AI, and then we had our multi-day tour sessions, and the team made a very conscious decision here for this content approach to weave everything together because rather than having just an AI day, as you mentioned, everyone wants talking about AI in every session. So weave it throughout the entire agenda. And the same with multi-day. It's been from the beginning of the conference on the Monday at 2:30, was the very first session. We're now on Wednesday. There's one more session to go. There's been six of them, as our listeners have heard. There's also been one on cuisine as well with perfectly.

SPEAKER_11 3:15:50

I travel for food all the time.

SPEAKER_14 3:15:51

Well, this was actually one of the biggest developments, is they actually found that food is the biggest driver. And so they actually created a special cuisine track this year. So um, are you familiar or did you happen to attend any of those?

SPEAKER_11 3:16:04

No, but yeah, I was looking for some good payer restaurants, definitely. But I didn't I did not attend, no. But love to see it. Love to see it.

SPEAKER_14 3:16:10

Yeah, and I I I assume based on the interest that uh there'll be more of that to come in uh Spokane and um and and future arrival conferences as well. They've just announced the destination for next year, which I wasn't able to highlight earlier, but we're gonna be in Bilbao in April of 2027. I'm assuming you're gonna be back for that.

SPEAKER_11 3:16:30

I won't, my colleagues will be, but I actually traveled to Bilbao last year just by myself just to go eat and see San Sebastian. So yeah. Nice, nice. But I won't be there, my colleagues will be.

SPEAKER_14 3:16:40

Got it, cool. And then we'll obviously people have gotten a great understanding of Protect Group, and it's you know nice to speak to someone other than Steven once in a while, even though I adore Steven and he's been such a big advocate of our podcast. I'm a big fan of the work he does, uh, the best in travel podcast with Arrival as well. And he worked with Arrival before joining Protect Group, so it's great to see the partnership and really the community that exists within the travel industry. Great people know great people, so it's fantastic to sit down and get a chance to meet you. But tell us from your vantage point, what's ahead for Protect Group in 2026?

SPEAKER_11 3:17:14

What's ahead for Protect Group in 2026? I think more products, of course, like I said earlier, everyone's got such a different need. Um, whether you're a water-based operator, you know, doing a food tour, you're an airline or hotel. So really expanding our anciller portfolio, um, building better uh whether it's pricing or content models, uh, so that each of our partners has got the kind of own unique, bespoke um offering uh of ancillaries and travel extras.

SPEAKER_14 3:17:39

Yeah, that's great. I know one of the things we're going to be doing later this year is a spotlight episode once the report is out that the Protect Group and Steven have been working on about uh the anxiety of travel. So we're I just want to mark everyone's calendars that there will be a spotlight episode coming out on Protect Group. But tell us for all of our listeners, Will, if they want to connect with you and

SPEAKER_11 3:18:02

Best way, I think LinkedIn, William Homburg, uh search protect group as well. I'm sure you'll you'll see me there. Uh email willh at protect.group.

SPEAKER_14 3:18:11

That's great. Thanks so much for joining us, Will. I really appreciate you making the time to sit down. And also I want to make sure that people go to Protect.travel, is the main website for Protect Group, to learn more about all the cool things that you guys do and the companies you work with. But thanks for making the time for this and wish you every success in 2026.

SPEAKER_11 3:18:30

Thank you, Don. Likewise.

SPEAKER_14 3:18:33

Our next guest is the managing director of Nexus Cube, Roberto Bermudez. Welcome to Travel Trends, Roberto.

SPEAKER_03 3:18:40

Oh, thank you very much. Uh very nice to be here with you.

SPEAKER_14 3:18:43

Fantastic. And I know we've met once before, but tell everyone a little bit about your background. And obviously, you've been to Arrival before, which is where we met last time, but I'm delighted we now have the opportunity to record the podcast here together in Valencia. But tell everyone a bit more about your background, the company, and where you're based.

SPEAKER_03 3:19:00

Yeah, well, Roberto Bermudez. I'm based in Palma de Mallorca, beautiful Palma de Mallorca in Spain. Um we have uh offices in uh different uh countries anyway. Uh uh but the thing is that uh Nexus Cube uh uh belongs to uh Go Nexus Group, and uh this is one of the divisions that is really focusing uh uh global marketplace for experiences and mobility services.

SPEAKER_14 3:19:24

Fantastic. I know we had one of your colleagues from Go Nexus at the FocusRight conference, and uh so they joined us for our event spotlight there. So uh I'm familiar with Go Nexus Group. I'm more I'm very intrigued to talk about Nexus Cube in more detail as well. Um but tell us a little bit about uh Nexus Cube and your connection to Arrival.

SPEAKER_03 3:19:44

Well, we are here uh because we have uh a lot of partners attending the uh arrival in the experiences uh uh uh channel, and um uh they are part of the marketplace, or they are buyers or sellers in the marketplace. And uh we have been working for a while, and some of them uh we are colleagues uh so we extend this uh opportunity us to uh uh uh I mean uh extend our connections, no, and uh and having also put some some uh some time together.

SPEAKER_14 3:20:22

Fantastic. And now obviously you're here not I mean for you, it's a shorter trip to make your way across. So many travel companies and are based in uh Palma Mallorca, which I've never been to, but I know it's stunningly beautiful. What are some of the reasons that you come to arrival and what have been some of the highlights of being here this year?

SPEAKER_03 3:20:39

Yeah. Um I told you uh for for me it's networking, for me it's uh consolidating the the relationship that we have with many partners here that are attending uh arrival, uh both in the buyer side and in the seller side, uh that uh belonging to the uh marketplace, uh Nexus Cube. And also there are some opportunities that you may find here new attendees, uh people that uh haven't had the opportunity to explain how to collaborate with us, uh how to become part of the uh the marketplace and distribute their their products as on an operator or uh how to uh have access to the uh to the marketplace.

SPEAKER_14 3:21:20

And just so everyone knows too, as we're having this conversation, go nexusgroup.com, and then there's NexusCube is one of the brands within the group, Nexus Tours, Nexus Lab, Nexus Cube. So you can check that out for additional uh information as we're having this conversation. Um tell me a little bit more about uh this competitive space of Nexus Cube, because it seems to me you're in a rather unique space.

SPEAKER_03 3:21:42

Well, that's totally correct, and I fully agree with that because um there are many players as a marketplace uh uh in the experiences and mobility, but really focus on the V2C. So we are V2B. Uh so we provide these connectivities between tour operators, uh, travel agencies, uh uh also we are in between OTAs, but we are not the face, we are not the ones who have an interface directly with the uh end consumer. Uh so the model is uh a bit different, no, and no many uh competitors in there now. And uh also I can tell you that some of the those that could be considered as as competitors, uh at the end of the day, they are partners like Tube Usman or uh Otel Betz, uh players that like that.

SPEAKER_14 3:22:26

And you guys have a massive global market, you're in 180 countries, and it's always amazing as I you know uh get to know about new companies in this space that I haven't uh have a great deal of familiarity with. Um that a company like Nexus Cube has this massive global scale. Um tell us a little bit more about your plans at NexusCube and where you're seeing growth this year.

SPEAKER_03 3:22:50

Well, we are very uh proud that we are now in more than uh 180 countries, as you mentioned, with more than 250 experiences worldwide. We can cover uh transfers uh in more than uh 2,000 different airports worldwide. Uh so very glad about that. And but we are uh adding uh uh more products. So now the focus for us is in the in the product side. From one side is curating our product because the database and the portfolio is so big. And the second thing is that we want to uh add uh like additional value with new products like uh ESIMs that are ready now in the system, insurances, and very focused for 2026 in the uh live events.

SPEAKER_14 3:23:35

And so one of the things I wanted to ask you too is the experiences. I know you have over 200,000 experiences, which is uh massive, um, and that you have 3,500 different uh global airport mobility options. I was quite quite amazed at the scale of uh Nexus Cube. Tell us a little bit more about those specific opportunities, especially experiences, since that obviously is core to arrival.

SPEAKER_03 3:23:58

Yeah. Well, uh those are uh a mix of uh theme parks, uh one-day tours, um, excursions uh um that you can um uh you can make just in one day. We are not selling multi-day tours uh because it's a a live platform which uh requires not requires no uh uh unrequested uh questions, let's say, or um uh a combination of different products. So you can combine by your own depend on depending on your interface, but uh the fact is that uh you can just uh plaque and play one of the product into the full uh travel uh travel that you are uh organized and schedule yourself.

SPEAKER_14 3:24:41

So interesting, I mean, given you're a marketplace and the focus is easy connectivity, making sure, as you just mentioned, about having the latest availability from local suppliers. One of the things with having a global catalog, and that's why I mentioned the scale, is incredibly important. That's a real strong competitive advantage. One of the things you guys highlight, there's no license cost for marketplace ancillary distribution. I'm curious about that, given that you're so focused on B2B. Tell us a little bit more about why B2B partners are keen to work with you.

SPEAKER_03 3:25:13

So we I haven't mentioned, but we have a very strong partnership with uh Uniper Travel Technology. Um Uniper Travel Technology is um a global travel platform who provides uh software to big uh players in the travel industry from tour operators to airlines and so on. And um they have the capability uh for us to uh uh make this marketplace work in a very easy way, quick way, and uh and reliable way. Uh so technology is always behind just to make this possible.

SPEAKER_14 3:25:52

Uh give us uh an example, if you wouldn't mind, of like a side of yours. No, please go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 3:25:58

I haven't answered your question. So when we talk about no license, is because uh uh once you are in a tech uh software, if you want to distribute, you always have to pay. So in this case, because we have this partnership, so you don't have any additional fee just to enter into this space.

SPEAKER_14 3:26:15

Right.

SPEAKER_03 3:26:15

Sorry.

SPEAKER_14 3:26:16

No, no. I'll fix it in post. That's all good. Yeah, yeah. Um I would love to hear some examples of clients you have that might be familiar to our audience, just to give us an idea of who you work with.

SPEAKER_03 3:26:27

Well, we have uh different types of buyers uh of the marketplace. Uh, from one side are those that are uh Juniper clients, I mean those that they are using the software today uh to operate their own businesses. So this um piece uh can cover more than 500 clients worldwide. Uh some examples could be uh big players like Jack to Holidays or others uh uh in the airline industry, uh uh also like Westjet or uh Sangwing or uh Volaris or many others in the market. And then we have um uh others that they don't use the Juniper Tech software, but they have developed the API to have access to our portfolio. So there are buyers that are only connected via API, and those are big players, uh like TBO or uh others in the market.

SPEAKER_14 3:27:20

I was impressed that you Roberto just gave me a couple of Canadian references there with suddenly he picked up on my accent right away. Well done. Uh now, in terms of where you're focused on in 2026 as an outcome of being here at Arrival, what are some of the areas that NexusCube is focused on for growth, whether it be markets, partnerships, and given networking is a big part a big focus of being here, um what's next for you guys in that regard?

SPEAKER_03 3:27:46

Well, I can tell you that um uh we uh have been very, very focused in one particular market, the Americas in general. So we are very strong there. Our plans are to expand that into uh Europe and uh Asia. We are already there, but not with the the focus and the push that we are uh doing today into the the Americas. No, big players that are collaborating with us today uh belong to the American markets. That's why uh we are very strong there. Many DMCs that they are uploading their own products into the marketplace, so you have this local um partner that is providing this local service to you, and uh and also uh many clients that are uh in this area, no, particularly those like uh West Yador Sanguin, that they are flying from Canada to the Caribbean, where we are very strong. Thanks to the Nexus tours uh uh as a provider in the marketplace.

SPEAKER_14 3:28:42

Yeah, and for you, I would have to think that you know arrival is obviously one great source of partnership opportunities, but tell us where else you attend in terms of conferences, because clearly your product not only is global, but also works across different sectors of travel. And just mentioning the airlines, there are you know airline exclusive conferences and sun holiday packages. So tell us more broadly where else people will be able to find you over the course of the year.

SPEAKER_03 3:29:07

Uh maybe it's easier to find me than my wife, uh, because uh I'm always traveling. Um last two years I can tell you I have been abroad more than 150 days in in the year. So I'm we're attending uh um every major big uh travel trade show, you know, like uh World Travel Market in London, uh ITB Berlin, uh ATM in Dubai, uh ITB China or Singapore, uh uh Anato, uh World Travel Market Brazil, um Tiangis in Mexico, uh IPW in in the States, we are everywhere.

SPEAKER_14 3:29:42

I want to make sure that all of our listeners, I mentioned the website in the beginning. I want to make sure that everyone can connect with you, Roberto, to find out for more information about working with Nexus Cube and also with your team. So what would be the best ways for our listeners to do that?

SPEAKER_03 3:29:55

Well, you can go to the website and then uh uh check how to become part of the family, or you can just send me an email uh uh R Bermudef at uh nexustours.com.

The Traveling Man On Value Over Volume

SPEAKER_14 3:30:08

Perfect, and I'll make sure obviously, and your LinkedIn uh is active, I'm sure, as well, since many people will reach out to you on LinkedIn. Uh but it's yeah, I'm I'm glad we had this opportunity to sit down together. Obviously, I'm keen to learn more and continue to understand this sector of the market. And um just to clarify, Roberto, uh, but you mentioned it's R Bermudith, which is B-E-R-M-U-D-E-Z. I'm Canadian, so I say Z rather than Z. But yes, uh be sure to reach out to Roberto, send him an email, and of course, we will find a way to continue to have conversations with Nexus Cube and learn more about Nexus Group. But thank you again for being here and uh look forward to keeping in touch. Well, thank you very much, Dan. Our next guest is a dear old friend of mine that I was really keen to make sure we included in this event spotlight, is John Balding. John, welcome back to the Travel Trends Podcast. Thank you, Dan. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 3:31:04

It's a pleasure to be back here.

SPEAKER_14 3:31:05

We had an amazing standalone episode with John going all the way back to episode one. He is a real legend in the travel industry. I even spoke to one of his team members, Robin Yap, in Singapore, who had the greatest affinity for John. So I encourage those of you who are just coming to know John after this to listen to that episode. We worked together for many years at the Travel Corporation. John was leading insight vacations, and John was actually one of the key people that I was working and collaborating with when I joined the group. So our relationship goes back about 15 years now, John. So welcome back to the podcast. But tell everybody, this is your very first arrival event, which is again why I wanted to get you on here. So, what brought you to arrival this year?

SPEAKER_01 3:31:46

Yeah, so my um situation has changed slightly. I've taken a step to uh put myself in a position where I can share the years of experience that I've got Dan. And um what I've done is used Arrival as a first announcement platform to come back into the mix and be there ready to reconnect with the industry to share some of that stuff that I know with people that need it, a little bit of strategic help here or there.

SPEAKER_14 3:32:13

Fantastic. And I know you worked for with Vox for many years, and you've continued to go on to success after the travel corporation, but you've also got this concept of the traveling man. And John had reached out to me given that he was keen to start his own podcast, and he even said to me, you know, I'm just I'm not trying to step on your toes. I'm like, John, you have, you know, you were you were in this space even before you started as a DJ. You're really going back to where it all began.

SPEAKER_01 3:32:37

Gee, Dan, you've got a memory there. That's uh yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_14 3:32:40

You went from DJ to tour guide to like, so this is this is your world, entertaining people, holding the microphone.

SPEAKER_01 3:32:45

Holding the microphone. As a tour director, it was every day holding the microphone, and and uh yeah, here we are again.

SPEAKER_14 3:32:51

So and so I love seeing you on LinkedIn and doing these interviews. So tell us what you're up to in that regard.

SPEAKER_01 3:32:56

Yeah, so um I've got a podcast series um in conversation with dot dot dot, which then links to whoever the interviewee is. And I'm trying to get across uh a real mix of people from the industry because I think the industry needs to reconnect internally. Um, you know, we talk a lot as an industry, but often in silos, and if guys like you and I can reach across those silos and open up the conversation a little bit, I think the whole industry can benefit from it, Dad.

SPEAKER_14 3:33:24

Yeah, completely. And as John knows, I mean, we started this podcast on the back of the pandemic to highlight how travel had changed post-pandemic. And I think, you know, we're now going through another period of uncertainty. Some people have referred to COVID 2.0, which I think is probably a little overstated, but certainly some markets have been more challenged. And so when that happens, there's not a lot of data or reporting out there available to people, so they have to rely on conferences like these and conversations like we're having here to get a read of what's going on. What are you seeing? How are your bookings today? Yeah, and that's so is that part of what you're doing in these discussions?

SPEAKER_01 3:34:00

Uh yeah, it is, it is. Um, it was interesting actually, because we're at a rival here in this conversation, and uh it was interesting stepping into some of the sessions, some which you were running down. Um, and and you can see that the industry does run in sort of parallel uh streams, if you like, um, where people are not thinking across those streams, and so many good ideas and needs that one stream might have, whether it's experiences and attractions or or whether it's uh uh uh a multi-day touring uh from big operators or whether it's educational travel or whatever, just not reaching across those. So I think that's where you know we we we can pull things together a little bit. I'm excited by that.

SPEAKER_14 3:34:40

For sure, I completely agree, and obviously I'm delighted to hear that you were attending some of the sessions, and obviously I was just thrilled to see that you were here. Tell us a little bit about the sessions you have attended. Please, I'm gonna obviously ask you to speak to the multi-day tour because that's your world, has has been for many years. So you know as much about that space as I do, certainly, John, and probably more in in other respects. But tell us a little bit about your experience at Arrival, the sessions you've attended, what has been some of the interesting insights and takeaways?

SPEAKER_01 3:35:05

Yeah, so um the first thing I think is you know, coming from, as you say, multi-day touring as a career, that that was the backbone of my career. Um, although with Vox, I I've been very involved in technology, so I have another strand now that's that's really useful. Um, but coming to Arrival does open up this other um stream, and uh I was impressed by some of the conversations that were to do with how um attraction ticketing is managed and so on, and how to get that balance right, because there is an imbalance there, certainly. And uh I think through the conversations we listened to, there was a really a very clear um situation uh that the that the audience was understanding that um venues very often, especially institutional venues, have very clear demands on them from their stakeholders that are very different to the demands of the tourism industry. And bringing that together was something that I've learned uh a lot from from here.

SPEAKER_14 3:36:03

Well, and something you always really excelled at is networking. I mean, you have uh just a knack for uh people and conversations, which is why it makes absolute total sense for you to be doing the media work that you're doing now. But in terms of the sessions you attended, were there any other standout highlights?

SPEAKER_01 3:36:18

Yeah, experience is a real differentiator. Uh that that was something. Technology is important, but it's not the story. I I took that away. That the the winners are those who design better and who have more meaningful visitor experiences in the real sense, so that the consumer feels something very different. And the other thing was about demand. You know, we're we're sitting here with uh the uh Gulf situation a little bit delicate, and there's other other areas of uh conflict or or um trouble around, but of course, travel demand is still here. Um it's just shifted, it's moved. That's right. And uh uh that that's clear as well. And businesses that succeed will be the ones that adapt. Uh, and I think that's what you know we all need to think about. Uh it's not uh you know uh what's happening now, it's it's how can we adapt to where and how people want to travel now.

SPEAKER_14 3:37:09

Uh and and based on your experience here, uh they announced, of course, that next year it's going to be in Bilbao. Yeah, yeah. So it sounds to me like you're likely to come back to another arrival event.

SPEAKER_01 3:37:20

Yeah, for for sure. Um I certainly will return. I I came this year with uh just to find out what it was all about, and and and I I think it's a really good platform. I'll certainly be here. Um we can help people. Um, you know, another note I took away was about uh we need to move from volume to value, I think, in many of these experiences. There's a lot of repetition, a lot of uh um, a lot of uh uh cookie-cutter stuff going on. But I think uh, you know, growth isn't about just numbers anymore, it's also about managing demand better and creating higher quality experiences for visitors and for destinations. And an event like this can help that.

SPEAKER_14 3:38:01

Yeah, absolutely. I completely agree. Those are some some great points and takeaways that you have there from the session you've attended, and obviously, yeah, be uh thrilled to have you back at these conferences. I'm sure uh Bruce and the team will as well. But tell us a little bit more what's ahead for you, John, in 2026 with the projects you're working on, the partners you're working on.

SPEAKER_01 3:38:18

Yeah, so one of the things I'm looking at very closely at the moment with the number of um partners is what we can do about the situation in the Gulf, how that can recover as we go forward. Because it has to. I mean, there's billions upon billions being invested in tourism, whether that's in Saudi Arabia or whether it's in Qatar or the UAE or Oman or even even some of the Eastern Mediterranean countries, Jordan and and whatever, Turkey, whatever. Um we've that's got to come back. And I think there's a lot of work that some of us who are in the consulting area can actually do and be very supportive in given the experience that we've if you've been around for a while, you've been through plenty of crises, that's for sure. Uh and it's about trust, I think. It's about trust bringing back customer confidence. Um, you can't do it just chucking money at it, it's got to be much more than that. And uh uh I think that's something that I'll be getting much more involved with. Um, but equally sharing some of that knowledge that I've got, some of that experience that I've got is is where we're at. I'm still working with Vox, by the way. I mean, I do uh work as brand ambassador for them and uh help them with some industry advice and that sort of thing. So it's good, it's a good mix.

SPEAKER_14 3:39:28

No, I'm I'm um I'm so happy for you, John, because obviously that role is so well suited to you. But being a mentor to people in the travel industry, you know, there was definitely times where you for sure mentored me when we were at the travel corporation and we've kept in touch since. And you know, you always do have your finger on the pulse of what's going on. You're based in London, and you really have a good sense of what's happening in this industry. You've navigated insight vacations from the experiences I saw, you know, from various crises and challenges, and the team always loved. And adored you. And so I'm sure many companies listening to this will be interested in collaborating with you in in some way since you're such a senior statesman. So let's make sure that all of our listeners know how best to connect with you and also mention your social channels too, so people can find this great content you're putting out there.

SPEAKER_01 3:40:15

Sure. So I use The Traveling Man as my moniker if you like. But yeah, the website, my website is uh thetravelingman.org if you want to go and have a look there. Uh obviously on LinkedIn it's pretty much the same thing. Those are the two main channels, but you can always find me on email or uh give me a buzz.

SPEAKER_14 3:40:39

Fantastic. John, I'm so glad we got this in. Obviously, I'm thrilled that you made it to the event. I was, you know, that was really wonderful to see you on the first night and in your element too, surrounded by your people that all know you from the industry for many years. So thanks for being here, making the time for this conversation, and I wish you every success in the year ahead.

SPEAKER_01 3:40:56

Thanks, Dan, and to the listeners as well. Thank you for listening. Terrific.

SPEAKER_14 3:41:03

And thank you so much to all of our listeners for joining us on this special event, Spotlight of Travel Trends, recorded live from the floor at the Arrival Conference in Valencia, April 27th to 29th, 2026. And I just wanted to make sure that everyone has these next two conference dates in their calendars. Brisbane, June 22nd to 24th, and Spokane, Washington from October 13th to 16th. Definitely make sure you take advantage of the promo code that we have on Traveltrendspodcast.com to register. And for those of you who are booking ahead for Spokane, make sure that you send me an email, Dan at Traveltrendspodcast.com, so that anyone who books a ticket with our promo code will be guaranteed to be featured in our event spotlight, just like these amazing 14 individuals you heard from today. I hope you enjoyed the highlights. And I just wanted to say a special thank you again to Bruce, Lynn, Douglas, Kimberly, Tara, Christy, the whole team. Thanks again to Mel for joining me as part of the event and for all the people that we met and had a chance to connect with. Thank you so much for coming up to the booth saying hello. I look forward to keeping in touch with many of you. And I also really look forward to coming back to Spain in 2027 because Arrival 360 is going to be in Bilbao from April 13th to 15th. So make sure you mark those dates on your calendar. Thanks again for listening to this episode. Thanks again to the Arrival team for our great partnership. And until next time, safe travels.