The Evolution of Sun Destinations with TUI with Phillip Iveson

A sun holiday may look simple on the surface, but the best ones are carefully engineered. In this episode, we’re joined by Phillip Iveson, Director of Accommodation Product and Sourcing at TUI Group, to unpack how one of the world’s most vertically integrated travel companies designs package holidays that seamlessly connect flights, resorts, experiences, and distribution. If you’ve ever wondered why certain beach destinations surge in popularity while others struggle to gain traction, this conversation reveals how airlift, hotel partnerships, and customer demand all work together.

We explore TUI’s core sun destinations for European markets and why places like Spain, Greece, Turkey, Egypt, and Mexico continue to perform year after year. We also dive into the “create demand” playbook, using Cape Verde as a standout example of how strategic investment, education, and access can transform an emerging destination into a year-round favorite. Phil also highlights rising long-haul demand, including Zanzibar, where travelers are increasingly combining beach stays with safari experiences.

From there, the conversation shifts to how all-inclusive resorts are evolving. Today’s travelers are less focused on counting amenities and more interested in what they can actually experience, from family-focused programming to elevated food and beverage that reflects local culture. We also touch on accessibility innovations like sensory rooms, along with how AI-powered search and in-destination tools are enhancing trip planning and support without replacing the human touch that defines great travel.

This episode offers a behind-the-scenes look at what it really takes to design a seamless sun holiday, and why the future of beach travel is about much more than just the destination.

Thanks to Holafly for sponsoring this series!

👉 Listen to The Evolution of Sun Destinations with TUI Now

🔥 Special Thanks to our Season 7 Title Sponsors for their Support: Bokun, Civitatis, Intrepid, Kaptio, Propellic and Protect Group

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Transcript

Welcome And Series Context

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Travel Trends Podcast and episode three of our three-part series that we have done for the very first time on sun destinations. As you heard, we kicked off with Saint Martin, which is one of the most exciting destinations in the Caribbean. And then last week we had Club Med join us who has invented the all-inclusive concept. And as you heard from them, they actually really pioneered the whole idea of all-inclusive in Cancun. And we talked about the destinations they've expanded to, which they are clearly an international company. It was fantastic to have a Canadian that has a, you know, based in Miami now that really understands the global market and their expansion plans now into South Africa. And what I wanted to do in episode three is have a European-based but globally focused company on our podcast. And I'm so delighted to have uh TUI joining us. And just I'll give some context and I'm going to introduce uh our amazing guest that will be sharing all of the exciting developments, Phil Iveson, who's the director of accommodation and uh and product and sourcing at Tui group and uh based in Europe, and we'll bring him in in a minute. But I just wanted to finish by saying that I have been uh a long admirer of TUI and the TUI group, uh especially given the many years I spent at the Travel Corporation, because Tui was essentially the public version and a much larger organization that really had pioneered the uh package holiday for so many Europeans. They own airlines. It's a remarkable company. And I thought they were so perfect to fit in our Sun Destination series to get their take on how this industry is evolving, where they're seeing the big opportunities and helping really understand the product experience, which is why I wanted to bring Phil onto the podcast. And just before I do, I just wanted to acknowledge uh the sponsor of our Sun holiday series, which is Olafly, as you've heard on the last few episodes. So if you are planning a trip abroad for yourself or for your guests, make sure that you ensure that you are and they are connected. The smart way with Holofly, which they are the global leader in eSIM for travelers with coverage in over 200 destinations. They have a 4.6 out of five trust pilot rating, and they are really the go-to for international travel. You can stop fumbling with sim cards because Holofly is all e-sim. It activates instantly with a QR code. You can be online in just two minutes with unlimited data and no surprise roaming charges. So if it's a short getaway or even your frequent business travel, or you live life as a digital nomad, Olafly has a plan for you. To get started, check out eSim.holofly, Olafly.com, which is h-o-la-f l-y.com. So thanks again to the team. Now, let's get into the conversation and bring in Phil. Phil, great to have you on the Travel Trends Podcast. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Hi, Don. Thanks for having me as well. And um, it is great to sit alongside Sam Martin and ClubMed, a destination and a company that obviously um I admire. So um, thanks for choosing to eat to go and I sit alongside that. Um, but yeah, great to be here and um looking forward to chatting some more.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Wonderful. No, thank you so much. I'm thrilled to have this conversation with you. And you know, Phil, we've just met, which is one of the things I always find really exciting on our podcast, is that you know, uh long admired the company and even preparing for our conversation, looking at your role and your background, having worked uh with Expedia before, and even uh understanding the train market and then the years you've spent at Tui. Why don't, if you wouldn't mind sharing a bit of your background, Phil, and also tell everyone where you're based.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Yeah, so you've you you've highlighted that I've had a very long career in travel. So yeah, I'm a die hard um travel person. So I actually joined um Thomson Holidays as it was then. So that was the kind of the company that eventually became Twee. Um it was the UK arm of 2E. Um and I joined on the graduate scheme after leaving university. So I did five years um with Thomson Holidays as it was then. Um and I left. Um, and as you said, I did a stint at Tesco, so I was working on ClubCard. Um so for those people who don't know, Tesco is the the biggest supermarket chain in in the UK, um, and Clubcard is their loyalty scheme. Um I then went on to work at the train line. Um so um at that time it was it was really interesting. It was back in was it 2006, where we were doing things like you would text train to be able to get train times. Obviously, five years later, everybody was searching on their apps, on their mobile for it, but at the time it was really pioneering. Um, I then went to work at um Expedia. I was at Expedia for about four years. Um, and then I came back to Tui in 2010, um, and have been there ever since. So, yeah, that's a little potted history of um of my long, die hard travel career.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Well, and that's why I was thrilled that you were able to join us for this conversation, because you know, Tui is such a large organization, and I know a few of the team members quite well from conferences and just being in the industry for a number of years. But tell everyone a little bit about your role as the commercial director of Tui UK in Europe.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

Yeah, so the role before I had um here where I was commercial director, so so Tui is we operate in over 80, around 18 source markets. Um, and one of our biggest, um the two biggest source markets obviously is the UK. Um, I spent um two years as the commercial director um sitting on the board of two UK and Ireland. Um, but last January um I took up the position as director of accommodation product and sourcing. Um, and that was a two e group role. So I moved from just being on a UK-focused role, and now obviously my role um is across the whole of the two e group.

How TUI Works End To End

SPEAKER_01 5:49

That's great. No, I appreciate that context because it is such a large and global organization. I would love for our listeners and myself as well, because there's quite a bit, um sure, that I don't know about Tui. I've had a number of colleagues that have worked at TUE, uh all like with very positive experiences and have had great feedback and have helped me understand the company, you know, especially Tui acquiring acquiring a company like Tui Amusement and getting the activity space. But would you mind just taking a step back and just giving our listeners an overview of the TUE group? Because I'm sure you know half of our listeners are in the US. I know it is such a well-known brand in the UK and Europe. I was in Cancun just recently myself, and I saw the sign for Tui Groups, and they were telling us how much uh traffic and interest they're now getting from Europe. And so it was neat to see TUE in that context. But yeah, would you mind giving everyone a bit of an overview of the public company and and and all of the encompasses too? Because you guys have hotels and airlines. It's like it's uh it's it's a big business.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it really is an end-to-end. So we're a fully vertically integrated travel company. I think kind of the only fully um vertically integrated travel company in the world. Um, so as I said, you know, in terms of kind of the distribution side, we have travel agencies, we have call centers, we have, you know, one of the most visited websites, one of the most visited apps across all of our European source markets. Um we own our own airline. Um, we've got a fleet of around 150, including um long-haul, wide-bodied aircraft that flies um from Europe predominantly to the Caribbean, to the US, but also into Asia and um Southeast Asia. Um we um we also then, but in addition to our own airline, we also have airline agreements with many, the majority of um the um of third-party airlines. So, you know, we work with Brianair, we work with EasyJet, Love Dancer, British Airways, Air France, et cetera, et cetera. So to complement our own airline and to offer that wider range. Um, we also um operate um um over 400 hotels, um, either through direct ownership or through franchise or through joint venture partnerships, um, again, um right across the world. So we have hotels in the Caribbean, in Europe, in Asia, um, in the Middle East, etc. Um, and we also have, as you said, um Musement, um, which is our um VMC company. So they do um transfers, excursions, um, lots of activities, um, and not just for TUI, but also for third-party companies as well. So, so yeah, fully, fully integrated company. And and in addition to that, um, I almost forgot is we uh we also own a um a fleet of cruise ships as well, um, both cruise ships and river ships. Um yeah, so real end-to-end, fully vertically integrated travel company.

Building Sun Demand With Cape Verde

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Yeah, it's so amazing. And I'm glad you mentioned that as well, because I was going to highlight the cruise ships just given how you know rapidly that sector of travel is growing as well. We've done uh a deep dive into ocean cruise and to river cruise, but I'm delighted to have TUI here for the Sun Destinations because obviously that is such a big part of your business. So thank you for giving that background. If any of our listeners that are multitasking while we're having this conversation, it is Tui Group.com, and they are, of course, a publicly traded company, so you can certainly learn a lot more about them. And for travel agencies that are looking to partner with TUI, obviously you can reach out and we'll cover some of those details towards the end. But very keen to dive right into the topic of sun destinations with you. And so maybe let's start with uh the traditional markets that you have entered for sun destinations. Because when I uh when I have these conversations, what I always find really fascinating is the concept of a source market and then the destinations that people travel to. So clearly, people from the UK, I was born in the UK myself and still have a lot of family and and friends there. Uh, and so many of my uh uh English friends, you know, they get they go to uh Spain, they go to Portugal, you know, there are specific destinations that are very specific to the UK market. Um, but clearly they're also traveling to Cancun. And so tell us a little bit about, and I I and the reason I asked this too, Phil, is because I really found it fascinating to understand Club Med's uh evolution uh with how they've expanded and then now into South Africa. So tell us a little bit about where to we focus their holiday, what your main source markets are, and then how you establish yourself as a sun holiday package company. Like what were the big destinations that really uh enabled your growth initially?

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Yeah, I mean that's so I think you know, as you said, we're lucky we're based in northern Europe, and I think one thing that's never going to change is people from northern Europe want to go south um to experience sun and sea, and they want to, but also, you know, they want to get away from the daily, um, the you know, the day-to-day. So um Spain is obviously where package holidays, you know, really, really started, you know, many, many years ago. And Tui has relationships with hoteliers in you know in Spain and in Greece, etc., that really do go back kind of 60, 70 years. So, you know, really, really long-standing partnerships with those destinations, with those hotel partners. Um, you know, destinations have evolved. You know, I mean, I remember when I started, there was kind of two flights a week to Egypt, which was to Luxor. We now have kind of, you know, it's Egypt is now one of our you know biggest um global destinations, you know, real Sun and Beach, as well as still kind of that culture side of it as well. Um, I think one of the really unique um elements about TUI is that because of that vertically integrated model, we can also create demand. Um, a destination that we often use as a real case study is somewhere like Cape Verde. You know, Cape Verde is um an island, you know, was Portuguese-owned and, you know, obviously now an independent country, kind of, you know, based off the coast of Africa, people probably would never have heard of it. But if you think about it, it had all of the ingredients for a great holiday destination, year-round weather, great beaches, um, you know, great things to kind of see and do. And so, but the problem was there's nobody flying there, customers don't know about it, and there wasn't any hotel product. So obviously, with our vertically integrated model, Tui can then, you know, we um our joint venture partner of Ryu Hotels, um, we started to discuss and develop kind of hotel um kind of openings within there. In return, we obviously agreed to put flights into that destination. We established a destination management company there. And obviously, we then through our distribution channels, whether that is through our retail agents, through our third-party agents, and through our website and through the app, we then kind of marketed Cape Verde to the deck to you know to customers who, as I said, in honesty, have probably never heard of it. Um, and now Cape Verde is one of our biggest year-round destinations. We have a significant number of hotels with Ryu, with Robinson, with Huey Blue, et cetera. Um, so I think that's really where we kind of, you know, is our thing, really, is that we can we, as well as following demand, we can really create demand as well. Um, and then as as as you kind of alluded to earlier, I think, you know, one of the the big trends was kind of, you know, back in the 90s really was kind of growth um in long-haul travel for kind of, you know, the the you know, to everybody so that it wasn't just kind of you know for the rich and the famous. Um we know Korea kind of created um holidays to the Caribbean, which obviously were like real luxury honeymoon type destination. Um, and again, kind of developed um hotel concepts there. Ryu is it's one of their biggest destinations. We also um have a joint venture with Blue Diamond or Royalton hotels as well, um, um out there in the Caribbean. So, yeah, so we kind of, you know, we want to be able to offer customers that full range.

Core Destinations And Zanzibar Rising

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Yeah, no, I appreciate sharing all that context because I find it really fascinating to understand a company's origin story and then how they've expanded over time. Because one of the things you've just pointed out that I think is really unique to Tui and companies like Tui that have, you know, the their own airline fleet, which is incredibly rare, but there are, you know, there are a few companies around the world, you know, in Australia and North America, that you know have a similar model and they can open up new corridors. And Cape Verde, uh, for those of our listeners that are not familiar geographically with where that is, it's off the west coast of Africa, off the coast of Senegal specifically, and it's really you know, it's a beautiful place in the world. I've never had the privilege to go, but it's you know, 10 volcanic islands, and um one of the things that you obviously then are able to do is actually you know open up airports. Club web is talking about that. They helped open up the first airport in Cancun. And once you're in a destination, then all of a sudden lots of people follow up, sure. All of a sudden other hotels get built, and then some of the low-cost carriers find their way into the airport and people start putting together their own packages. But really, you're in a privileged position to be able to provide the access and then develop, um, given the size and scale of the company, hotels and resorts in destinations. So just to highlight those, what would be kind of your kind of big five if you wouldn't mind sharing, Phil? Just you mentioned the Caribbean, but if people think of TUI, and I want to get into all the different types of trips that you have, but just in terms of destinations, and maybe you could also share what's trending up at the same time. So here are your core destinations, and maybe Spain still is your top performer. Uh, but what would be some of the emerging markets too?

SPEAKER_02 15:21

I mean, obviously, so the big five would obviously be Spain, Turkey, Greece, um, Egypt, um Cyprus, um, I think from us as a group perspective, but Mexico really is up there. Um, it's one of our um biggest destinations. Um, and and and again, we fly year-round um to Mexico. Um, the UK has around 21 flights a week to Mexico. Um, and then also we have flights from our other markets as well. Um, in terms of up-in-common destinations, I mean, you know, I I think if I think of it from a long haul perspective, um, somewhere like Zanzibar, um, we have Tui has a significant um investment in hotels with Ryu. We've got a brand called the Mora, um, which is our like real upscale um brand that um was the launch um destination for that brand. We have Tui Blue hotels there. We have a joint venture partnership with Jazz Hotels as well, and they've just opened three hotels. So Zanzibar, I mean, for those um that don't know, it's it's off the coast of Tanzania, it's kind of you know luxury Indian Ocean Island, um, and it's really, really gone through quite some quite significant development. It's really great, and it's got some of the best beaches in the world, but also you can kind of do so, you can do safari from um combine it with Tanzania and the Serengeti, so uh, or you know, the Masaimara in Kenya. So it really combines that ability to have some experience and adventure while still having that kind of you know sun and beach holiday as well. So that's a real up-and-coming destination.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

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Source Markets And Eastern Europe Growth

SPEAKER_01 18:45

And now back to the show. One thing I want to go back to, just given that we have listeners in 125 countries and people listening to this that may be just coming to know 2e, despite the fact that the company's been around for you know 70 years and has a huge global footprint and profile. But the reality is that uh many people will not be familiar with the brand, and especially especially in North America. Tell everyone what are the main source markets. You obviously UK Ireland for sure. You mentioned Northern Europe. And so uh the reason I asked that question is because I want to make sure our listeners to this, especially on the consumer end, that they know if TUI is for them based on where they're located and the destinations you have departures for. And then also, too, Phil, if you wouldn't mind, if I'm I'm also keen to know where you might be expanding to uh as far as new source markets.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Yeah, so when when I talk about our source markets as predominantly kind of you know northern Europe, as I said, UK, Ireland, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, um, Netherlands, Belgium, um, Poland, Switzerland, Austria, um, we've recently launched in Czech Republic, we'll be launching in Romania, in Hungary. Um, I'm hoping I've not left one out and I'll upset one of our colleagues. But yeah, so kind of significant number of source markets. I think you know there's a real push into Eastern Europe at the moment. You've obviously got some economies that are like the Polish economy being incredibly successful, a real growing middle class, people really wanting to travel. We're seeing that across kind of um Eastern Europe. And in all of these kind of markets, we are the number one or the number two player in selling holidays um to the public. So um so yeah, that that's really our focus. We will also um look at kind of you know any desk and any any market where we believe we can really add value and add something different. Um, and obviously, given that we have hotels um around the world, if you think of somewhere like um the um the Caribbean, you know, the the European market isn't the biggest source market there. So, you know, that would always be something that would be interesting to us.

Hotel Concepts That Build Loyalty

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Well, I have one more question on the brand that I'd be intrigued to know. And then I'm keen to get into some of the consumer preferences as far as the uh the type of travel that they're interested in beyond the destination, because you do quite a bit of uh very specific, you know, whether it be like uh honeymoon trips, of course, or like um but stag dos or hen du's, um that obviously is a big outbound travel market from the UK. Uh whether it's you know adults-only travel, family travel, and I want to get want to get into some of those details because I always find it fascinating when you look at some of the trends that are occurring, multi-generational travel and especially family travel for luxury. Um but before we segue into that, just one more question on the brand itself. Since you are vertically integrated and you clearly have a large loyal clientele, and in the UK, you will see high street TUE uh travel agencies, for example. So, you know, you are engaging directly with a customer, they're then getting getting on a two E plane, they're staying at a Tui hotel. Not in every case, but they're you know, there it's a fully inclusive package tour from Tui that people are buying into, and it's not just Sun destinations. Obviously, you do a lot more. Today we're gonna be focusing on Sun. Um but what is it about the TUE brand experience? Experience that uh when it comes to especially your role um uh overseeing of the accommodation, what is uh specifically unique about uh Tui as to why people choose to travel to Tui? Obviously the vertically integrated element is is a major part of it. Uh your pricing obviously is then reflected in that and how you can um and the and uh being able to manage the uh um the large load factors. Like I know in the UK you are are you you fly to like 20 airports and like so I can see a lot of like as a consumer looking at Tui, those are some of the things that stand out to me as to why I would likely choose Tui, but I always find it interesting to ask someone like you on the inside of what are the things you are actually very intentional about to try and make sure that people love their experience traveling with TUI and they come back.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

I mean, obviously we look at kind of I I I think absolutely number one is kind of put in there, and and whilst this sounds cliche, I'll I will explain so that it doesn't just become um a cliche, but you know, putting that customer at number one, you know, we really do have teams and teams of people who are responsible for managing quality, not within every element of the customer journey and ensuring that that quality is consistent right the way across from the experience they get in the travel agents through to the on the plane at the airport, once they get to the hotel, you know, once they go on an excursion, and then you know, the follow-up and the journey home, et cetera, after that. So we've that is something that we we really, really focus on, and we really want to ensure that that is the best possible customer experience. I think the other thing that I would say that sets two E apart is in, and I would say this because it's kind of my bit of the business, but in terms of our hotel product, you know, kind of differentiated hotel product is absolutely in our DNA. Um, it's something that we've been doing for you know over 30 years across all of our markets. So, you know, if you look at somewhere like Germany, you know, that Germany developed the Robinson brand, it's one of the strongest brands in the German market. In the UK, we have our sensatory brand. Um, and you know, even in areas like um kind of uh Netherlands, um, we have our time to smile um kind of concepts. So we have lots of concepts that are very unique to a certain market, but we also have um concepts that are specific to a customer type, so whether that's adults only, whether it's families, etc. And we've developed those kind of over the years. Um, I mean, it's interesting some with something like, you know, what we often do, I would say, is we we look at which trends are, you know, kind of um becoming really popular in really high-end hotels or kind of you know high-end customer experience and think, how can we make that accessible to many more people? I think a really good example of that was the concept of a swim-up room. So, you know, many years ago it was kind of the people who have their own private villa. Um, but you know, not everybody can involve to have a you know luxury, uh can afford to have a luxury private villa. So therefore, we introduced within um a lot of our hotels um swim-up rooms, um, but but at scale. So, you know, many um customers would then have that kind of that element of privacy and that element of their having their own pool, um, but within a much you know bigger hotel, and therefore the economies of scale meant that we could do that to a much wider, wider audience. Now, obviously, now swim-up rooms are swim-up rooms are you know really, really popular and kind of everywhere across hotels, but you know, ITUI was really the kind of the pioneer of that, you know, that that swim up that scale. So, so I think it's it's things like that that I think, you know, um I can give many examples of kind of of where we've kind of developed those differentiated products and the team of people that we have looking into that. It really is the bit that when you talk to people internally, we get most excited about. Um, and certainly the bit that, you know, the that it's the most rewarding bit of my job.

Family Travel Beyond Pools

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Yeah, you know, it's really interesting you mentioned that because when we did this recent trip to Cancun, it was the first real all-inclusive trip we had done as a family. Our kids were on uh spring break from their first year university. Everyone seemed to prefer this style of travel for this particular occasion, and it worked out great. However, I would just highlight that when we did check in, they offered us an upgrade to a swim-up room, and we were trying to decide if we wanted that. And and then we saw the hotel literally had fully customized the first floor so that they are all swim-up rooms. And obviously, I was then envious of all the rooms that had swim up after it's like, maybe we should have done the upgrade. But it also struck me that from a marketing customer behavior, this is the part that I all find so fascinating. So I I'm really intrigued to know that that actually is a concept that uh Tui pioneered because as you were highlighting, it's now everywhere. Like as I could see, like when we were looking at different resorts, it's one of the things that they all promote and they uh clearly it drives consumer behavior. And so this is this is exactly what I want to get into with you, Phil, because uh you have the privilege of acts, you know, having access to the data and the knowledge and the insight as to what drives that consumer behavior. And I do want to get into hotels specifically because ultimately uh it is the resort. And most people, when they're doing an all-inclusive holiday, it rarely is about uh the ultimately the destination. The destination needs to have sun and sand and um it needs to be beautiful, but really it's the resort because so many people you speak to, and this was part of my frustration feel when I would often hear people talking about their all-inclusive vacation, is they didn't leave the resort. But for a lot of all-inclusive travelers, uh that's the appeal. They want to go somewhere stunningly beautiful and they want to stay there. They don't necessarily want to do excursions, although um I'm one of those people, and clearly you need to cater to those as well. Uh but let's talk a little bit about uh the kind of personas, if you will, of the people that take uh sun holidays with TUI. And what I'm specifically keen to know is uh when you look at uh what your strengths are and then I guess what the growth opportunities. I know you have uh luxury as obviously a big part of the collection, and I know that's really uh taking off. Club Med talked a bit about that, and it's been a consistent topic uh of my keynotes with Virtuoso, and there seems to be no end to the luxury market's growth. Um, but you also do anything like spa holidays, you do sports holidays. We're actually doing sports as a topic in our season uh this year, given all these major sporting events that are happening in 2026. And so I've I'm I'm really keen to know where the strength is. Is it the family holidays and then where the growth that you're seeing is?

SPEAKER_02 28:31

Yeah, I mean, we send 20 million customers abroad every year. So for us, it's really about, you know, we've almost got to offer the full scale. Um, so and we get huge amounts of data because of that vertically integrated model. So, you know, we we chat to our own agents, we chat to third-party agents. We've just launched um semantic search on AI search on our websites where customers can now enter kind of the experiences they're looking for on holiday rather than, you know, I want to go to Mallorca or I want a hotel with a pool. They can talk about the experience that we want in. And whilst that's great for customers, it's really great for us from an insight perspective as well, because we can really see in live, you know, kind of real time what trends are like customers are really, really looking for. What we then do is, I mean, we have a team of around 60 people that are really developing um concepts, uh hotel concepts that they're developing them, but they're also then kind of fine-tuning them, um, figuring out how we deliver them across the world. Um, and so that's really kind of, I think, you know, as I said, it's the thing that's in Tui's DNA, is really creating concept hotels for particular customer segments. So obviously the family market is huge. Um, so you have families that have very, very different kinds of demands or things that they want to do. I think, like you say, you've got some, some, you know, I I think most people who families um they want the kids to be, they want the kids to be happy, they want to be entertained. But as an example, you know, for many, many years, we I mean, with within um the majority of our markets, we're the only kind of major operator that implants our own kids' clubs. So these are kind of um specially trained um um childcare kind of um operators who can um who go into hotels and and and you know run our child our kids' clubs. Now, there was probably a perception of this 15, 20 years ago that what used to happen would you dump your kids in the kids' club and then the parents would go off and do their own thing. You know, obviously that's things have completely changed now, or and and the perception is probably not right. We've we've kind of modernized that quite significantly in the sense that you know, we now have kind of you know um sessions where kids, you know, with their parents do activities together. Um, even our children's activities that are focused on the kids with other kids, we weave in sustainability elements, we sus we weave in kind of you know kind of um educational purposes about the destination, about the local cultures, etc. So it's not literally just kind of sat down and drawing a picture as it maybe was 20 years ago, like you know, all of that is really, really developed. We also have within our hotels, um, because I think one of the things, the big, big changes that we're seeing is customers are no longer searching for does the hotel have three swimming pools and does the hotel have four restaurants? You know, those things are really important. But customers are really now looking at actually what experiences can I have in this hotel? Um, and you know, whether that's in cuisine, whether it's kind of trying something new on, you know, whether to try paddle or, you know, obviously activities generally around kind of are focused around being outside, so doing a yoga class, you know, kind of overlooking the sea, etc. Um, but you know, we really kind of tailor um all of our holidays to to kind of offer more experiences than just facilities. So we introduced in our kind of um in some of our branded and some of our concept hotels things like um, you know, um football academies, swim academies, drama academies. So those three where actually kids can put a production together, um, they can put the show on that evening, um, they can learn to swim. You know, we've taught thousands of kids to swim over, you know, over the years. Football academy with kind of you know professional footballers who go out and you know allow boys, girls to kind of you know, um hone in on their kind of their and improve their football skills. So again, it's it's really experiment um yeah, experimental rather than um experiential, sorry, then rather than um than just kind of oh, you know, we're going to swim in the pool.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

Yeah, no, it's really interesting. And I think that's where the idea of beyond the beach, uh many people today are looking for the additional activities. They're looking for something that's special or unique, especially if they've already done a beach holiday. Clearly, there's a huge market just for that. So you obviously need to cater to the people who are looking for an all-inclusive beach holiday at an amazing resort. They're looking for total relaxation. But more and more people now are looking for active holidays, as you well know. They're looking at wellness. Um, oftentimes they want to connect with local culture, which has sort of part of been my uh challenge with an all-inclusive versus taking more of an adventure trip and being able to be uh more connected to local community. And that for me has always been a big part of traveling. And so, you know, when we did our trip to uh Cancun recently, we've spent we did a day trip to Machu Picchu, which I would consider to kind of be a must. Um, and it was, you know, it was a great experience, even though you know it's uh many people have done it and it's very, you know, it's an easy day trip and it's it's well worth doing, but it can it connects you to the history and the culture uh of the destination and it gives you a much broader experience, even having that day with the guide to better understand Mexico and that peninsula and and the history, and you get to meet more people of the community and go to a restaurant that is is more locally run and those kind of things get you a day off of the resort, and then you come back and enjoy the resort. So tell us a little bit about some of those things that travelers are looking for today.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

I mean, it i it it's funny. I remember when I started out in travel, and as I said, I've been kind of in this for quite some time. I remember kind of we used to have a concept that was called Thomson Gold. Um, and one of the things about that concept was it almost used to kind of really reassure customers that they could be have be Brits abroad. So, you know, that you'd get a full English breakfast, you would get a, you know, the a roast on a Sunday. I mean, when I look at that now, it's kind of customers have done a complete about turn. You know, they don't want that. They want to be able to go to a destination and they want to be able to try local cuisines. They, you know, they want to be able to know more about kind of that cuisine. And we've actually just launched on the back of this a Diamond Discover um program. So this is a range of curated range of hotels where um that are really we've scored really, really highly um for F and B. Um so custom like and we have this data, obviously, customers that rate it really, really highly, both for the variety but also kind of the quality of the food um offering. But we then also include kind of some kind of um experience. So whether that's a wine tasting or a food tasting or a food pairing or you know, kind of talking about kind of the the cuisine of that area. Um and we exclude and we we also offer discounts on kind of you know, really um dine and discover um activities outside of the hotel as well, where customers can connect with the local community. Um so that's kind of you know um a real, you know, what one of the things that we've launched to really meet that, those customers who are saying, you know, actually we really want that authentic experience. We still maybe want an all-inclusive hotel, but you know, we want to have the variety and we want to really be able to kind of experience not just kind of the buffet every night, we want to understand more. Um and and I think, you know, probably I had a similar perception to you maybe 10, 15 years ago about all-inclusive, but you know, hotels have, and certainly, you know, we work with hotel partners to really, you know, understand what trends are coming up in in the markets and in their destinations as well, um, because customers don't just want that kind of you know, sitting in the hotel every day, kind of, you know, eating the same food. There's, you know, they they want to have kind of they want to have new experiences and they're probably more adventurous when they're on holiday than they are back in their home country. And we're seeing that trend across all of our markets.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

Well, that's really interesting. And oh tell us a little bit about the accommodation, since that is you know, you your specific area of focus when um someone is looking at the resort themselves, because the I found that really interesting what you shared about the swim up hotel. And I know I was just asking about the things you can do. You know, there's obviously all the activities at the resort. One of the things that Club Med had pointed out that I have found really quite fascinating is what's very core to their business model is the trapeze. And they kind of came up with that idea of, you know, and every and what I didn't understand though, Phil, that um was explained to me last week was that uh it was because of the fact a lot of their accommodation is low rise, and because they fully control and they've built these resorts, purpose-built, um, that they're low rise resorts, then you need a lot of space. So you wouldn't have you know most uh other hotels would not have the space to be able to build a trapeze. And so that's part of, I guess, what's unique to their DNA of their brand. But from a consumer and a marketing point of view, the one thing that's very clever, I would say brilliant about that concept is that uh when someone gets on a trapeze, they are fully uh out of their comfort zone and they're then they're very president in the moment. And so when someone's going on holiday, that kind of brings things all together and they share pictures of it. So it's clever from a marketing uh point of view, but also from a consumer experience. And so going back to what the core experience is at TUI, knowing that you're building out these purpose-built resorts, tell us a little bit more about the accommodation options, what is very intentional about your approach, like the size of the rooms or the amenities that you try and make sure that are available. Because I I don't know uh offhand what the difference would be walking into a hotel room at a Club Med versus a Tui or another you know, international high-end uh resort. But yeah, tell us a little bit about the resort experience.

SPEAKER_02 38:19

Yeah, so I mean, obviously the rooms are uh it will be designed according to kind of the customer, you know, what the customer is looking for from those rooms. For some customers, the room is really not important, you know, it's somewhere to sleep. Um, but but actually that it's more around kind of you know what there is available and having loads of activities in the hotels. I mean, probably a splash hotel is a really good, you know, is is one of these. It's it's customers who who want that, you know, water park as part of the hotel and want to be fully kind of, you know, kids can go there as much as they want. So we have hotels where they kind of lit uh unlimited water park access. Um, and um, and and again, kind of, you know, therefore it's potentially some of the other facilities are less important because that's the real focus of that hotel. So it's not to say that they're not important, they're just maybe less important than than other than in another concept. But we obviously, in our real kind of higher end or kind of you know, curated family product, then we do have, I mean, we will have on our specification the so with all of our concept hotels, we'll have a specification that a hotelier needs to sign up to. And there we will have probably a 10 or 12 room types that that hotels must kind of you know have within their hotel to be able to offer to different customer types. So you'd obviously have right from a twin, you know, twin room with a one single bed right up to kind of you know a three-bedded room with potentially its own swim up or you know, kind of dividers within that room. So it's really appealing, like you say, to either multi-generational or larger family types. So we will have kind of specifications that ensure that you know any type of family can go can can go there. Obviously, you know, accessibility is really important to us as well. Um, we won an award recently um for kind of accessible holidays. Um and it's interesting, you know, one of the things that we've we've in s just started introducing into some of our hotels um are Tui Blue hotels, so our kind of flagship brand is sensory rooms. So this is for people who, but you know, sometimes the whole holiday experience can get a bit much for them with all of the entertainment that's happening and the bright lights and the sun and the noise. And so therefore, we have rooms that are, you know, kind of take all of that away, and they're places that people can go and still kind of you know get a drink and something to eat, but it's much more sedate and it kind of gets them away. We're rolling that out to another kind of four hotels, and and we, you know, it's been really, really well received. Um, and it's you know, it's just an example of saying that, you know, there's custom different customers have different needs, and in our flagship concepts where we're sending, you know, with the where it's probably you know two, three hundred rooms, you need to have these things so that you know all families um can can enjoy that. So I think that's kind of you know some of the key things that we're looking for from our kind of family product. I think you know, one of our in the UK market, um our flagship concept is sensatory. We um introduced kind of a a variance of sensatory um in the Turkey Hotel. So the first concept, which was the sensory residence. So this is a real upscale, um, so sensatory, the customers can still use all of the facilities of the sensory, but this is a separate section of that where they have butler servers and it's an upgraded room and it's an upgraded money, you know, mini-bar, and they have their own private restaurant, etc. So, like you were saying before, that there is that market for kind of ultra luxury. Um, but often those customers still want to be part of a wider concept where they can still go and kind of you know meet with other people, they can still be involved in the entertainment, etc. But that's kind of our way of ensuring that we can still appeal to those families that are looking for that ultra luxury.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

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SPEAKER_01 44:41

One of the things I wanted to ask you too, given that you are vertically integrated, when it comes to guests that are choosing Tui, you obviously work with travel advisors as well. So in terms of distributing the product, are travel advisors beyond the the core TUI travel advisors an important part of marketing and bringing these guests into the TUE experience?

SPEAKER_02 45:02

Yeah, I mean, 100%. I mean, you really I I spent time when I was in my UK commercial director role, um, often spending time in travel agents. Um, and it's really, really interesting to see the in the kind of the richness of the data that you can get from those advisors. So that was you know really, really useful for me, but also seeing kind of the service that they can offer kind of to customers. Of course, there's some customers who want to do all of that themselves and they love the research and they love sitting in front of the computer or their mobile or their, you know, on their app and doing all of that yourself. That's their thing, and you know, we're never going to change that. But there's a lot of customers and a lot of them who they want somebody to take that away from them. They want to be able to kind of be led in terms of, you know, this is my these are my requirements loosely. Um, what's the best holiday for me to do that? And you know, our travel advisors doing them and kind of, you know, not even just to me travel advisors. We obviously give the information and the content to um to independent agents in order to ensure that they kind of can can sell those as well. I was really impressed at kind of how much um these agents can kind of make a difference to somebody's holiday and and they know the tricks to get somebody a better or a cheaper or a better deal that somebody researching, you know, just would would would they would just never find. Um so I think, yeah, absolutely. We just need to be, you know, as I said, we're sending kind of 20 million customers, so we need to be present in all elements of this of distribution.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

Very interesting. And I know we're such a big part of our audience, and that's part of the reason I'm keen to ask that, because we've certainly seen uh resurgence in travel advisors post-pandemic, and they really, you know, they've changed, their role has changed so much, uh, given they're off and home-based and they're working off of their own book of clients, and they're making recommendations and they need to understand why they should promote certain destinations or work with certain partners. There's obviously a lot of factors at play, commission being one of them, but ultimately they want to make sure their guests are delighted and keep coming back. And that I just wanted to highlight that because I would presume that's a growing channel for you. So maybe just on that question, from a demand point of view, I presume you're seeing growth in advisors and direct business. Is there any indications you could give us just in terms of how the business is growing, even though, and I know you're a publicly traded company, so you don't have to give any uh future statements. I'm not asking for that, not gonna try to get you in trouble here. Um uh, but just in in general terms as far as uh and and putting aside given uh geopolitical events, which you know, us working in the travel industry, especially you've been in this industry as long as you have, you know, we go from crisis to crisis. Um and you have a master's degree from Oxford, after all. So you kind of like you've got a pretty pretty good perspective on uh on all these things. So uh but tell us a little bit about uh the growth, where you're seeing it coming from in terms of travel advisor and direct and and how things are trending in 2026.

SPEAKER_02 47:57

Yeah, I mean both of these channels are hugely important to us, you know, as I said, and um, and you know, I think as I said, it's all elements of the distribution um distribution um chain as well. So um, you know, the app is obviously you know growing, you know, you know, a lot in in importance, um, you know, significant amounts. But but one of the things that we often find is multi-distribution. So kind of customers might do a lot of research in with the travel agent within one of our agencies, but then they book on their mobile, or vice versa, they do a lot of research on the web, um, but then they go in and you know they actually want to speak and get that reassurance from the advisor. And obviously, you know, sometimes um they will advise them on kind of alternatives and and and other options there. So, you know, both of those um of those elements are are really, really important to us. It differs across markets. So obviously, um, in somewhere like the Nordics, the majority of of the business there get, you know, is through online. But in markets like, you know, Germany, the UK, Belgium, et cetera, the travel agents um and both our own and and and our independent agents are hugely important. Um, it's funny as well, one of the things that we have um we we we've kind of done is that um a lot of our agents um in downtimes, they actually answer kind of customer letters. So nothing to do with agents, kind of so any customer letters that have come in, um, in downtimes, the agents answer those letters. And it's actually a really good opportunity for them to then understand kind of some of the things that customers are either complimenting or kind of complaining about. Um, um and that kind of you know helps inform um, therefore, you know, how what they're recommending to customers or or they'll recommend to us kind of you know changes that they think need to be made because they see the full end-to-end of that. So so yes, that's kind of kind of it in terms of of distribution, I would say. And in terms of destination, I mean, obviously, as you you've kind of alluded to the um geopolitical situation, so we are seeing you know strong demand for destinations in West Med, but actually in EastMed, um we are also seeing that kind of you know that there are some great offers there, and particularly in the late market, customers, you know, customers are really um uh booking in that late market. And because there's offers out there, one of the things that we're seeing as well is that customers are actually, you know, upgrading hotel choices. So whereas they might have booked a four-star hotel in in Mallorca, maybe they're being convinced to go to a five-star hotel in Turkey because of um some of the offers and deals that are out there.

AI Search And On-Trip Support

SPEAKER_01 50:34

One of the things you mentioned too, just with access to data, I'm also keen. One of the most impressive presentations I saw at ITB was from uh Andre Exner, your director of IT, about how TUI is utilizing AI. And you had mentioned about agentic AI on your website and trip planning. And it's one of the things I really wanted to ask you, although it's not obviously specifically your area of focus. What I wanted to get a sense of is how you are in your role and as Tui leveraging that technology, leveraging AI, uh, leveraging the data you have to help make decisions to better inform obviously the product portfolio, working with partners, all of those things that you can then action as a result of it. But yeah, tell us if you wouldn't mind a little bit about the technology side at Tui, the utilization of AI, and how you guys are harnessing and benefiting from the data you have.

SPEAKER_02 51:22

Yeah, I mean, you know, I I think one of the points that I said earlier, which I think has been really, you know, will be really useful, is to how we can use kind of some of that information that's coming from um from the AI um in terms of search to kind of um influence our decisions on what are upcoming trends and how that can inform our products. So our product teams will will you know absolutely be using that going forward um as to um to in to help inform their decisions. What it allows for as well is allows us to consume much, much more data in terms of kind of information that helps inform decisions because you're not having to sit like sift through and look at those trends yourself. You can obviously get AI to kind of you know to do that for you, and then our teams can work then on how do we then answer those problems or how do we then kind of create the concepts that that that's kind of coming from those trends and that data. So I think you know that's really, really one of the kind of the big areas in terms of my, you know, my teams. I think, as I said, just allowing you know us to consume much, much, much more data. Um, but it but I mean AI is, you know, as I'm sure with everyone, is it's touching every single part of the business. And I think what we absolutely see is where AI plus human is kind of the sweet spot. Um, so that's really where we get, you know, where you get the best results. I mean, you know, we we have the Sum AI, which is used by um um for several customers when they're in the destination, they can kind of, you know, the customers that have a question um from from to kind of our our reps, they can obviously do this on their mobile and ask a question. What we've actually done is we've got um our sumai um bot that is effectively answering all of those kind of really simple questions. So what time does my transfer arrive? Where does my transfer go from? Where's the best place to do this? Will my pass, you know, all of those low-hanging fruit takes away around 60% of the questions. What we've then actually noticed, what we've then realized is the average call time now from an actual agent, so to speak, to somebody has doubled. But what that's because of is because they're actually really helping those costs, because they're not dealing with what time is my transfer, they can really spend quality time on helping customers who really, really need it, who've perhaps, I don't know, become ill in the destination or they've had a you know some kind of crime incident or whatever that is, um, and really, really provide you know a great service. So, you know, as I said, kind of that's really kind of where you can see that the two working together.

Seasonality Shifts And Value Upgrades

SPEAKER_01 54:02

Yeah, that's really fascinating. And I I could definitely dive and spend more time on this, but there's a couple other things I do want to make sure we cover in our our time together. Uh on one of them is is the growth uh that you're seeing and the kind of what the future is. But just before we uh kind of finish on that note, just some of the market trends that you're seeing, whether it be destinations or regions um emerging. I know we've touched on a little bit of this, but I just want to make sure that uh anything else that you find particularly interesting about market activity and and and specific growth trends, uh love if you wouldn't mind sharing any more valuable insights with us and our listeners.

SPEAKER_02 54:39

Yeah, I'm so I mean I I think as you said, I've kind of alluded to some of these around kind of you know where customers are going, what they're looking for, etc. And you know, it's interesting, whilst I said earlier that, you know, customers, there's there's kind of some certain facts that will always be the case that influence holidays. So customers want to go north to south. You know, school holidays are always going to be kind of the most popular time, but even within this, we are seeing kind of you know um changes in the sense that you know that there is a bit of a trend moving away from just that kind of July and August period. You know, a lot of customers now are keen to go in times that are you know slightly quieter or kind of you know or also. So the kind of the weather is potentially less extreme. Obviously, if school holidays are school holidays, but you know, for those people that do have that flexibility, we're definitely seeing kind of you know that we're not just having that huge peak in in July and August that perhaps we did kind of you know 10 years ago. So that's um certainly kind of one thing. Um I think as I said, kind of you know, the real, real thing that we're that we're we're we're trending and we're responding to is kind of this customers, you know, that they want to, you know, everybody when they go on holiday, they want to escape the day-to-day and they want to try new things. And it's how do you kind of keep on top of that and keep offering? It's like, you know, I think with F and B, you can almost never be good enough that customers, you know, there'll always be a new food trend, there'll always be a new, you know, you know, things that customers want to try, and you know, particularly when they're on holiday, and and so, you know, we're always working with our partners to making sure that they are constantly kind of looking at the trends that are coming up, or even just the way that kind of people, you know, kind of choose to dine, what you know, is it timings? Is it kind of, you know, not everybody wants to have breakfast between seven and ten, you know, we also have introduced in in many of our concepts kind of this idea of 24 hours all-inclusive. And that's not because people want to necessarily, you know, what we actually see is you know, few customers really use it. Um, and you know, few customers use it all the time. But for those parents that are awake at 10 o'clock in the morning because I don't know, the child is, you know, won't go to sleep, you know, they maybe do want to be able to go and get a coffee or they want to be able to get a sandwich. So it's or and you know, if customers who, you know, actually wake up at you know to go for a run at five o'clock in the morning, they also want to be able to come back and have some fruit or whatever. So it's it's about, you know, and it's not wasteful. So we're not having restaurants that are open kind of 24-7, but it's just allowing kind of you know customers to kind of dine and and and have access to you know food F and B when they need it.

The Next Five Years Of Travel

SPEAKER_01 57:28

Yeah, absolutely. No, this is and and this is where we definitely need a uh a part two. You've shared so many valuable insights today, and I just wanted to uh finish off where the industry is headed here. So, further to those market trends you're seeing, one of the things that I highlight to our listeners is that you know, in 2025, last year, uh there was about 400 million global travelers, and the projection going to 2050 is 800 million. So our industry is gonna double in the next 25 years. So everything that we've seen come before, and this is where you know you've got a lot of investors in this space and a lot of growth potential despite short-term setbacks. One of the fascinating conversations I had with Get Your Guide, I had a opportunity to do a panel uh discussion in their office, and we recorded a podcast as a result of that, talking about the impact of tourism and how you spread out the benefit. And one of the leaders that was part of that panel was highlighting we spend so much time talking about cities and over-tourism. And what we're missing out on the fact is actually uh the majority of travelers, like he highlighted in Spain, you know, the three biggest destinations in Spain for travelers are not any of the cities, they're the islands. And it's like, and they and which are typically better positioned to be able to handle travelers because they've been built fit for purpose. And so he highlights the fact that we don't talk enough about you know sustainability and how uh these destinations need to make sure that they are kind of maintained, well managed, and so on. And so obviously, sustainability is is one aspect, because he was highlighting to me, particularly in Spain, is a lot of these old castles that are being renovated and turned into uh hotels, and that's one of the ways to you know to keep the local culture, um, also to focus on sustainability. And uh and so that was an interesting takeaway for me. I didn't realize that was a major initiative in in Spain. But uh what what I the reason I wanted to finish on this is uh tell us what the future looks like from Tui's uh vantage point in your role, because clearly you guys think in five and ten year terms, not in you know six and twelve months. So you're obviously you're looking ahead at building new destinations, and those take uh five years. And so if you wouldn't mind just sharing with us, and again, not from a publicly traded point of view and some of the things that people may choose to invest or not. So I again I don't want to get in trouble with this question. I just really would love to know uh your views on where uh the industry is headed over the next uh five years, and how I guess uh also specifically how uh important, I guess, the uh the sun holidays continues to remain as part of the the collection because Club Med was highlighting you know they're moving uh as well as sun, they're very focused on ski and they really lead in the ski space. Um and so uh they're now offering alternatives to kind of uh sun and sand destinations. So tell us if you wouldn't mind, just to finish off, Phil, where do you think this industry is headed?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:12

Yeah, I mean I I I mean I think the industry, as as you kind of alluded to, there's kind of you know, the number of trips is gonna grow um much, much faster than kind of population growth. So the likelihood is people are gonna be taking more and more more trips. Um, I think therefore it is important. Like, and and you know, the likelihood is that therefore people will probably take shorter, but kind of but but but more of those trips. Um, and it's about being relevant in all of those trips that customers then then want to take. Because I think customers do want that variety. Not every holiday they want Sun and Beach. Um, and therefore, you know, we do, you know, we have overland holidays, particularly in markets like Germany and Austria and um the Benelux countries, um, where customers are going to lakes, going to mountains, etc. We obviously operate ski as well. Um, our river cruise is not always in destinations, though, you know, clearly kind of sun and sun and beach. Um, so I think you know, for us it's really important to make sure that that we operate within all of those kind of you know, destination and customer segments to make sure that that you know we we capitalize on all of those um the the the the those the more of the trips that there are. I think in terms of the hotel product, I think as I said, I think it's gonna be you're gonna increasingly customer demands is gonna be about you know the experiences with the hotel and not just what the facilities are, although you know clearly that that that will be important. And I think you know what's absolutely key is looking at how AI, particularly, you know, and it's not just from a search perspective, I think you know, it will really support search, you know, kind of customers, as as I said in the past, they wanted to, you know, that they would just enter that they wanted to go to Mallorca and they might filter on the fact that they want, you know, a kids' club or they want a water park. Now customers will, you know, their search requirements are I want to go to a hotel that's near the beach, that's small, that's around loads of bars and restaurants, you know, it's not too far from the mountains, you know, you know, you can't do that with just filters, et cetera. You know, that's really where kind of AI will play a huge part in that. But then also how do you use that within the holiday experience as well to give the customers the best possible opportunity, best possible experience. So I think, you know, for my role, it's really about kind of how do we continue to, you know, kind of scrutinize the data that we're receiving through every aspect of the value chain and every aspect of the of the holiday chain to develop the best products and the best hotel products with our customers. And and really we're only ever as good as our hotel partners. So for us, it's really, really important that um, and you know, as I said, we've got a relationship that goes back decades. Um, and those relationships are really built on people who share our vision and and you know, who we can develop things with together. It's a bit, you know, it's a bit like a normal relationship. You know, some of our hotel partners we have the biggest fights with, um, but it's generally because of how passionate both sides are about what we think is delivering the best for the customer. We always end up going for a nice dinner in the evening, though. So I think, you know, it's it's it's not as different as um as a as a normal relationship.

Wrap-Up And How To Connect

SPEAKER_01 1:03:32

That's great. Well, no, I really appreciate you sharing those valuable insights. There was a lot there, and there has been throughout this entire conversation. I think this is a perfect way to finish off our third episode on Sun Holidays. And obviously, I'm you know so pleased you made the time for this. I'm really appreciative. And I'm thrilled to see the continued success that Tui is having. And I just wanted to say, Phil, thank you again for this. I look forward to speaking again, hopefully meeting at some point in the future. But also just wanted to wish you and the team at Tui a great success in 2026. And I look forward to keeping in touch with you.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:02

And likewise, it's been really good to chat and um to meet you, Dunta. Hopefully, as you say, we'll meet in person soon. But you know, thanks for having me. It's always good to chat about what we're doing and um and um and get and um explain to customers and explain to our colleagues as to what we do.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

That's awesome. Thank you, Phil. I really appreciate it. And uh and thanks to all our listeners. Really appreciate making time for our three-part series on Sun holidays. I hope you enjoyed the conversation here today with Phil at TUE as much as I did and learned a lot. If you do have any questions, you can always reach out to me, Dan, at traveltrendspodcast.com, if there's something that we didn't cover or something you're keen to know more about. Feel free to send me an email and I'll try and make sure you get the answers to those questions or put you in touch with our guests, since we do get so much feedback, and I imagine that uh a number of people reach out to Phil on LinkedIn and check out the twoegroup.com. So I encourage you to look at opportunities to connect with them and learn more. And then thanks as well, of course, to our Sun Series sponsor, our friends over at Olafly. If you are traveling in the near future and you need data to stay connected, then you need to make sure you have an eSIM from Olafly that activates super easy with a QR code. It'll give you unlimited data more than 200 destinations and zero surprise roaming charges. So make sure that you connect at esim.com. That's h-o-l-a-f-l-y.com. And again, thanks to ClubMed, thanks to Saint Martin, thanks to uh to Tui for being a part of our Sun Destination series. And I will have another exciting update for you next week with our captains of industry. So make sure you're subscribed on the streaming platform of your choice, Spotify, Apple, and also make sure you register for our newsletter, traveltrendspodcast.com. And don't forget, we do post clips and highlights on all of these conversations on our social channels, which you can find Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTube at Travel Trends Podcast. Thanks again for joining us, and until next week, save travels.