Beyond The Beach with St. Maarten

A Caribbean sun holiday becomes something truly unforgettable when it includes two countries on one island, world-class cuisine on both sides, and an airport runway so iconic travelers plan entire trips just to experience it.

In the first episode of our Sun Destinations Series, we’re joined by May-Ling Chun, Director of Tourism for St. Maarten, to explore what makes this destination one of the most dynamic and talked-about in the northeastern Caribbean and why it continues to turn first-time visitors into lifelong fans.

We dive into the island’s evolution, from its roots in salt production to the development of a modern tourism economy built on strong airlift and hospitality. May-Ling shares how St. Maarten stands out in a competitive region by embracing its unique blend of French and Dutch culture, a vibrant and diverse community, and a welcoming atmosphere that extends from local markets to heritage tours and waterfront dining experiences.

Beyond the beach, the island offers a wide range of experiences, from hiking and wellness retreats to cultural events and food-driven exploration, giving travelers more meaningful ways to connect with the destination. On the industry side, we unpack destination marketing strategy, including how the tourism board aligns with airport partners to drive connectivity, targets key gateway markets, and balances consumer demand with trade engagement through travel advisors and tour operators.

We also explore the role of St. Maarten as a hub for island hopping to nearby destinations like Anguilla, St. Barts, and Saba. Finally, we address the realities of growth, including congestion and overtourism, and how a focus on community-based tourism, storytelling, and better data can help ensure tourism continues to benefit local residents and small businesses.

Thanks to Holafly for sponsoring this series!

👉 Listen to Beyond the Beach with St. Maarten Now

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Transcript

Season Kickoff And Series Setup

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Hello, everyone, and welcome to season seven of Travel Trends and the start of our next deep dive into the world of sun holidays. We just finished our very first look at luxury hotels. I thank everyone for joining us for those episodes. And being Canadians, this is a topic that is very dear to our hearts, but one that we've never covered on the Travel Trends podcast, because so many Canadians, especially this time of year, are desperately seeking sun and warmth. But that's also the case for many Americans and ultimately people around the world that are seeking a break, a vacation, and we've never focused on sun holidays. And it is literally half of the tourism industry. And so we wanted to bring this series together and have some really interesting conversations with senior executives that work in the sun holiday space, which includes Club Med, who will be part of our next conversation. But we wanted to start with a destination and a destination that I have not been to, but I am incredibly excited to go, hopefully in the near future. But we wanted to focus on the Caribbean and bring to you a really fascinating conversation with the director of tourism, Mei Ling Chun from St. Martin. And just before we do, I just wanted to acknowledge that we have a fantastic sponsor for this series. Our friends over at Olafly, who are a big part of last year, our AI Summit, and a sponsor of our podcast. And they're back for season eight as a title sponsor, but they specifically wanted to be a theme sponsor for this series. And recently I was traveling to a Sun destination and I saw Olafly mentioned everywhere. And I understand why, because everyone needs to stay connected on their travels. And using Olafly, which is the global leader in travel e-SIM, is definitely the way to go. They have more than 200 destinations. You can check out their trust pilot ratings. It's 4.6 out of five. And what really sets them apart is that you don't have to hunt around for sim cards or deal with any roaming surprises. You just scan a QR code, activate your ESIM, and you're online in minutes with unlimited data. So if you want to travel smarter and stress-free and stay connected on your next trip, check them out at esim.olafly. That's h-o-l-a-f l-y.com. Thanks again to them for sponsoring the series. But now let's get into episode one and bring in May Ling Chun from St. Martin. Mei Ling, great to have you here. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Good morning. Good morning, viewers, listeners. Um, I'm so honored to be on your show, Dan. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

I'm thrilled to have you. And yes, for those people who are watching this on our YouTube channel, because season seven, we've introduced video on YouTube, but many of our listeners, of course, are on Spotify or on Apple. So by all means, continue enjoying it on the audio platform of your choice. But if you are watching, you have to see how beautiful Mei Ling's office is, which you were saying to me just before we started. This is actually where your husband is very creative. I see a guitar behind you. This is actually a very creative space for you in the house.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Yes, it is. This is the home office that we share, and we both like to be in this space. This is his mostly his space because he's the musician. He writes, he writes poems, he's into music, and so this is where we sit and also entertain.

Where St. Martin Sits In Caribbean

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Yeah, no, that's fantastic. Well, and what a great place to entertain. I'm sure you have many people coming and going and visiting. So tell us a little bit about where you're located so that everyone can either picture where you are in the world or be checking right now on a Google map to see where uh St. Martin is.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Great. Yeah, Saint Martin, also known as Saint Martin, as you know. St. Martin is Dutch and French, but it's located in the northeastern Caribbean. So not far from Puerto Rico and USVI. So that gives a bit of an idea to people where we are. Um, amazing place, of course, 37 square miles, um, divided by the Dutch and French, and has 37 beaches. So we always say a beach for every mile. And that is so if you're looking that up right now, you will see exactly where we are. And I'm located actually on the southern side. That's where I work and live.

Two Nations One Island

SPEAKER_02 4:12

Fantastic. And one of the things that intrigued me about having this conversation, being Canadians and um the being Canadian and knowing obviously we have English and French, I know you're Dutch and French. Um, but when I was speaking uh to Mailing about whether it's uh Saint Martin or Saint Martin, because we often hear that in Canada, of course, for the Quebec quoi French. And you know, it's really interesting when you are two nations and one island and you are kind of equally kind of uh 44% um Netherlands and 56% the French. So tell tell everyone, I find this so fascinating, especially the history of the Caribbean. Give everyone a little bit of background on uh Saint Martin.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Okay, so really it is so the northern side, which is 21 square miles, is the French side, Saint Martin, as everybody always says. And it's actually the most universal way to write because in English, Spanish, or French, you write Saint Martin, right? So, but we in the Dutch had to be different, and they write it differently at the double A. So that's what we call actually more English Saint Martin. Now the southern side is 16 square miles, and it is definitely, we always call it two countries with one heartbeat. It is that the French side is a provident, let's say a providence territory of the France. So even the highway that you know in France runs as N1 through the French side. Um, the Dutch side is an autonomous stat, has an autonomous status within the Kingdom of the Netherlands. So we have our own parliament, we have our own ministers, so an executive branch. So that's the difference when it comes to you're dealing with two governments, two rules, two all kinds of different policies, but we still all live without a checkpoint border. It's a symbolic border.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

Yeah. And I know it's known for being such a friendly island as well. And from my understanding, too, English is widely spoken, and US currency is also uh regularly used as well. Um, so tell us a little bit about how uh uh St. Martin transformed into a tourism destination because I hear so many people raving about their experiences, and a lot of Canadians will say, I've gone to Saint Martin because they're using the Quebecwa or the French version of it, and it does sound more exotic. And uh, but tell us how how you transitioned to becoming such a uh an important tourism hub in the Caribbean.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Sure, and that goes way back. Um, there's a lot of rich history. Saint Martin was known as we the name of Fort St. Martin that was given by the Indians was Sualiga. That means the land of salt, because we were known actually for salt, and salt, when the Dutch discovered all the salt, they started uh basically we had salt pickers, and that salt was used to preserve um meats and bring it back to Europe. So then um back, let's jump forward. So around the 50s, um uh some leaders of the country decided that uh, you know, tourism has to, you know, there's a potential here for tourism. And they started going to meet with airlines and with, you know, the tour operators that existed then, and there were of course very few. And before we knew it, we had the first flight of American Airlines flying here. And uh, and that's how tourism started and evolved to what it is today. Uh, for example, our first um hotel here was uh, for example, Little Bay Resort, which is now known as Divi Little Bay. Um, our airport, who's so known for the, you know, all those videos that you see with the planes flying in, um, our airport was actually built as a landing strip by the US for World War II, and afterwards evolved to what it is today, which is one of the most sophisticated airports in the region, in the Caribbean region, and actually is the northeastern half of the Caribbean. So we have here a timeline that is showing you how St. Martin just evolved into one of the top destinations in the Caribbean, in the world.

Princess Juliana Airport Plane Spotting

SPEAKER_02 8:26

Well, in the world, exactly. That's what I wanted to uh to underscore is that you know, when you travel around the world and you visit different countries, it was really interesting to me when I first lived in Australia, the number of people that were interested in going to Cuba when they lived in uh Australia because uh it seemed like such an exotic destination. Anywhere in the Caribbean seemed incredibly exotic to Australians. To many people who are in North America, the idea of Tahiti or French Polynesia seems, and I it's always that distance gives part of the allure, right? But when you look at the Caribbean and you look at the cruise lines, and I and this is where I wanted to start our Sun Holidays with the Caribbean because of the history of that region, and you think about US travel after World War II, and then also what happened in Europe, and then also the Europeans now discovering the Caribbean, especially because of cruises. And I know so for me, there's many reasons that I wanted to have this conversation and start our Sun Holidays conversation with you. But one in particular, you just called out, um, which is so my son's training to become a pilot. Every night he would be work in his room and he would ask me, you know, what where should I fly to tonight? And he always wanted to fly uh to St. Martin because of the airport being so close to the beach. And for any of you who have not seen this, you have to watch a few videos on YouTube. Um, and it's one of the places he's you have to have uh uh special training to be able to come in because it's a short run shorter runway and it is so close uh to the ocean. So it is one of the things that tourists seem to line up along the fence to experience uh takeoffs and landing, and it is quite something.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

And and you know what, Dan, that has become one of our trademarks. And and it's you know, I never knew that well, now I do for several years, but before I never knew there was this whole group of uh plane spotting, and that made it so popular because the beach is right there, people are lying on the beach enjoying and they're waiting, and the schedule is posted, and they're waiting to see what are the large jets, smaller jets, all the different private jets, you know, coming in and taking pictures. So if you you have the most reels, I think, on YouTube on plane spotting in St. Martin, it's amazing. So that puts us as a destination also on the map, which is a whole other demographic or target group without doing, and that's organic, without us doing anything really for that, that has become a word of mouth, and people travel specifically for that too.

What Makes St. Martin Different

SPEAKER_02 10:52

This is what I want to get into because one of the things in business and strategy that we've always focused on on this podcast is trying to understand differentiators. I know our audience really enjoys that aspect of the conversations that we have is that you know, when you look at tourism businesses and try and figure out, you know, how they're positioning themselves, who they're marketing to, what are some of those um key differentiators? And this is the question I wanted to ask you, and I wanted to be uh clear about it with our listeners of why I'm asking you this question, because when people look at the Caribbean and they're trying to make a decision on where to go, and I know it happens for many people planning their holidays, and you hear from different people, oh, you should go to Aruba for this, or Bermuda has the pink sand beaches, and you know, it can be confusing for someone who's not been to the Caribbean before to look at a map and try and understand the geography, the history, the culture, cuisine, and try and figure out where to go. And so obviously, we've given one highlight, which is the airport and um plane spotters, and my son is an avid plane spotter. But what would be some of the other standouts that for uh St. Martin compared to other Caribbean destinations?

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Well, and and I'm glad you're asking that, because the Caribbean in its whole is gorgeous, it's beautiful. Um, you know, a lot of times people get confused between the islands. So imagine if you have to choose between 34 nations, and this is an area of 44 million people, uh, 34 nations that you have to choose from. Where am I gonna go on vacation? But the uniqueness of St. Martin is that we are Dutch and French, and that there are no borders, and it is a blend of, we also have over 130 nationalities here. So, what you have now is that Dutch influence, that French influence. Um, you know, the French side is a bit more French, you know, the French restaurants, their top restaurants, uh, you know, that you can uh put at the same level of French restaurants in France. Um, you have the uh the the cuisine, of course, what we know for, but it's also the people. The people come from both sides, and because it's such a blend and it's so diverse, it reflects in uh the culture, it reflects in the food, and we are known for the friendly island. So, what happens is that you get a bit of a taste of both sides of the island, you can go back and forth, but at the same time, you're meeting people from all over the world and all over the Caribbean. The uniqueness is that Saint Martin actually has all the Caribbean islands represented in St. Martin, so you have a community of of all the different Caribbean destinations, and and we all are Saint Martiners, so you either what we like to say is you're you're born um here or you're born to be here, because once you live here, you are a Saint Martiner, you know, and I think that's the uniqueness and meeting people, that's why we're called also the friendly island, because you make friends here, you will leave wanting to come back because whether it's the bartender you met and had a conversation with and end up uh, you know, um going to his home because he's saying, you know, I want to invite you to meet my family and we're gonna cook for you, to um, you know, keep seeing them every year because of your experience being so good and you keep coming back to the island, you make a lot of friends here. That's why we're also called the friendly island.

Who Visits And When To Go

SPEAKER_02 14:15

That's fantastic. And I thought you point out something really important right off the top there, which is that you know the Caribbean is so beautiful and there are so many amazing places to discover in the Caribbean, which is clearly one of the reasons that people choose to cruise and to get off at different ports, and so that they can see as much the Caribbean, especially by boat. I know a lot of people that are more affluent travelers as well, you know, they charter yachts. And um, my brother had the privilege to go on a trip recently and experienced multiple islands and was just sharing some staggeringly beautiful photos. And so I know that's one way to travel around the Caribbean, but I want to focus on St. Martin and the type of people that actually travel to the island with the intention of spending time there. Because for me, I've always been, you know, when it comes to travel, I've typically been more of a an adventurer or kind of a backpacker traveler. And for me, I never define myself as someone that would do kind of what the industry refers to as fly and flop holidays, you know, people that just do sun holidays and just go to a place and just lay on the beach for a week. That's never been my style of travel. I've always been more interested in culture and history and cuisine. And so what intrigued me most about uh St. Martin is the history of the Dutch and French. And so it's part of the reason I'm I'm very keen to see the island and explore for myself, but I wanted to understand other people's motivations and also where they're coming from. So putting the cruise industry aside just for a moment, because I know that brings a lot of tourists to the island. When we look at who comes to St. Martin, who is your typical audience? Is it mainly Americans? Is it Europeans? And what are they typically traveling for? Are they looking for you know a one-week holiday? Are they spending longer periods of time? Give us kind of an overview of who the clientele is of people that go to St. Martin.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

Sure. Um, our main source, our main market is North America, which of course is the US and Canada, followed by the Europeans, uh, the Dutch, Belgium, but Germany, uh, some of the British uh, you know, from the UK is increasing now. Um, and then Latin America and the Caribbean. So those are actually the five countries, five regions that we concentrate on. Um, that's where most of them come from. Majority is from North America because that is because of proximity as well. But we see an increase now tremendously. I guess we did a the team did a good job of promoting as well and doing our marketing strategies. We see a major increase in the European countries, uh, even uh, you know, even in the States and Canada is is an increase. This year, basically all the different regions had increased a tremendous increase in the Caribbean and Latin America as well. So there's potential to grow the other areas. Um, but what's nice about it is they come from those areas. They it used to be the, you know, let's say the 45 to uh 65 age, and now after let's say after the hurricane, hurricane Irma and the COVID, we saw it change tremendously. And that's also because we went a lot more via social media, you know, digital marketing. We saw now all of a sudden a trend of younger generation traveling to St. Martin. They discovered it, right? So it was a reset button for us. So we see all of a sudden now from let's say 30, let's say 28 all the way up to 65. So there's a diverse uh group of travelers coming to the island, and that's what makes it actually so beneficial to us because there's a time for everyone to come, right? Because you have that low season and high season, uh, usually from mid-December to April, end of April or first week of May is our high season, and then it tapers down. Well, last year was the first year that we actually continue having high numbers into August, because our goal was to become a year-round destination. And when you have a year-down, the year-round destination and these regions that I mentioned, and with the age group now changing and the demographic changing of the type of traveler, whether it used to be timeshare or now single travel um groups, you know, girls or um, you know, family travel is a big trend. What has happened is there it has been able to fill, let's say, fill in our seasons to become more of a year-round destination. And and I think that is what our success is, that it attracts a diverse group of people.

Sponsor Break

SPEAKER_01 18:49

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Culture Food And Outdoor Adventures

SPEAKER_02 20:59

And now, back to the show. Well, it certainly appears to me that the stars have a line for St. Martin, given the number of people that keep telling me how amazing the destination is. And the people that are giving me this feedback, they can be, you know, the uh I've got a good friend that's from Puerto Rico who lives in Miami and raves about St. Martin. And we've got uh you obviously met Catherine, who um, you know, her family is Jamaican Chinese, and she was so key. And it's it's really amazing to me to hear how much uh buzz and interest. And again, that's why, you know, with travel trends, understanding that travelers are really discovering St. Martin is a really hot tourism destination and a sun holiday destination. So to help our uh listeners understand what the opportunity is, and then also what's driving that. So the one thing I wanted to as a kind of a follow on to my you know, beyond the beach mentality is that you know, culture, food, and local immersion. This is what I think St. Martin offers over and above. You know, it has beautiful beaches as well, but you can only compete. You know, there are beautiful beaches throughout the Caribbean, so you can find that. Multiple places. So for for me, there has to be and and what else? What else can I do beyond the beach? So tell tell us what else what else is beyond the beach.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

I'm glad you asked that because I was gonna start talking about that. And first of all, even for you as the adventure um person, traveler that you are, you would love St. Martin because there is so much outdoors to do. So you can go hiking, you can go uh you can walk this whole island. And actually, my daughter and my daughter um uh she loves the outdoors and she does hiking a lot. But going back to one of the goals we have this year, and we started last year already, is to have the traveler emerge more into the destination. What is there beyond, like you say, sun, sea, and sand? So it was the culture, the people. So we started with like, you know, the history of it. Like, for example, we have historical walking tours in Phillipsburg for you to understand how Phillipsburg started. There are walking tours from Marigot for you to understand how Marigot is. Um, knowing the history of the Simpson Bay area and Grand Cas, those are fishing villages actually, where families came from. And that's how you have also the mixture of both sides of the island being families from both sides. Um the uh the the food, you know, the the cultural events we have. We 11th of November, we celebrate uh St. Martin Day. That is one of the largest cultural parades now where um all both Dutch and French come together and we have a parade on the Dutch side where we wear dresses that are how the ladies used to wear them back in the days, you know, how they were made. Um you can experience making Johnny cake, you can experience uh hiking with a Caribbean breakfast, um, Emilia Wilson Park. The Emilia Wilson estate is an old plantation estate where um there is it's not only about the famous rainforest zipline, but it's actually about the estate. It has still they turned a um the the sugar, the sugar plantation, the the house or the factory into a restaurant. So it's a wonderful restaurant, so we call it dining with history. There is a museum for you to understand what the Emilia Wilson estate is all about. So there is um tours that you can experience. Um, you can also experience true local food, you know, real Caribbean local food, also food that used to be made in say, you know, that people used to make. If you know those the story about the Johnny cake, it's actually not called Johnny cake, it's journey cake. Did you know that? So these no, so these cakes, these these uh buns were made actually for people. It was fast because it was flour, salt, sugar, and then you bake them or you fry them and you take them on your journey. They were fast, you know, you could make them very fast. So they were journey cakes, but they became Johnny cakes. And in some islands, they call them bakes, but here we call them joy cakes. So there's another trivia for you. Um, but it's uh it's also about um touring the whole island and visit some of the historical landmarks, and the beauty of it is that you do both sites at the island, um, because um you cannot sell just one site, it's one island, it has its history, and the uniqueness of it is to visit all those points throughout the island that showcase where we where it all started or where we come from. So the museum is also one to visit. You'll get a lot of information going to our Filzberg Museum. It's it's right in Filzburg, our St. Martin Museum. Um, and uh, for example, also um uh uh Simpson Bay Marketplace. The Simpson Bay Marketplace is the area where all the fishermen on the you know on the Dutch side in Simpson Bay, because Simpson Bay is considered a fishing village, and they come there and that's where they bring the fish and that's where they sell fish. So you could actually, as a let's say as a tourist, you want to be really Caribbean, you can go every morning at seven o'clock and go get your fish if you want to cook it yourself that day, or you want to go at one of the restaurants there and have Caribbean breakfast. Caribbean breakfast is fried fish, Johnny cake, or salt fish, even, and all the other, you know, um uh uh the bush tea, and that's a real Caribbean breakfast, and that's a must, I feel a must experience as well for you to really feel what it means, what how people start their day.

Best Seasons And Hurricane Myths

SPEAKER_02 26:46

That sounds marvelous. And you spoke into my second biggest passion and being is experiencing local markets. And the part I love about markets is it's really where culture, cuisine, and commerce come together. I love the entrepreneurialism of markets. I love the fact that you get to learn the history and the culture by virtue of what products and resources everyone has access to and what they bring to market. And obviously, it's delightful to be able to have that experience of um eating a local dish and you know having your um uh which is why I love you know Anthony Bourdain and you know traveling the world through food is because you know it really indulges our senses. And that's one of the reasons that we travel. So um, Maylang, everything you just said for me is like I need to book a flight and and and get on my way. But uh the one thing I want to I want to ask you another question about uh the time of year to travel, and then I want to get into some of the marketing activity because I think what's going to be really interesting to our listeners, since obviously this is you know primarily a B2B podcast, we have a lot of travel agents, tour operators listening to this and trying to identify their growth opportunities and what they should be recommending to clients or how they should be expanding their business. And one of the things I want to get into next is you know how you market a destination like like St. Martin, even when you've got a lot of things going in your favor, there is clearly a strategy that you're leading as the director of tourism to ensure, but before to ensure that you know the the the uh tourism continues to grow but in the right way. And that that's something I'm gonna ask you about as well, because it's something I'm deeply passionate about, is responsible travel and making sure that the money goes into local hands and into the community. And I know that's a big part of your role. Um, but the before we transition into that, for those people who are just intrigued, like I was, uh, to travel to St. Uh St. Martin, what what are the best times of year to travel?

SPEAKER_00 28:30

It's funny that you say that because right now it's high season, and we've done such a good job that we actually closed 2025, we closed off with over 855,000 stayover visitors. And that is um a tremendous jump, but that also comes with congestion because now from December to April, we're just booked. We're booked and it's busy, and that means then and and St. Martin has always been promoted as the island, you know, go freely around, rent your car. You know, we've been promoting it for so many years like that. So what you do get is now this is the busy time. And if you don't want to be, I almost want to say we reach that cap of not wanting, and we have to be honest about it, not wanting the people to have a bad experience. And then sitting in traffic is gonna be an issue. So now you can avoid all of that as well, because you might not want to be at that time, but you're on vacation, you don't want to be like, oh, I can be on on the road from three to five and things like that. So, but having said that, I would say right now, the best time if you want to really experience a have a good vacation, a good experience, immerge yourself, immerse yourself in the destination. I would say anywhere from April on till mid-December is a good time. And you know, I want to say one more thing. Um there is a lot of uh this stigma we have already for decades, because as you know, we're in a hurricane um belt. So you you get that people are like, oh, September, October, they don't like to come. We're trying to move away from that. Actually, September and October, our numbers last year went up because we did some campaigns to push more in the lower, lower months. And the fact is, we know when they're coming. So, and we are actually a country that's very well prepared for that. So we know ahead of time if there is anything coming our way. So I feel it's a pity when you don't come in those months or not consider them because you actually can experience a lot more and and you know, with not so if you don't want congestion, then you know, a lot of people around you and be more quiet, then I would say yes, April through mid-December is a good time. Any of those months is good.

Airlift And Digital Marketing Strategy

SPEAKER_02 30:55

Good to know. I mean, most travelers are quite savvy today, as you well know, and they look at the information around peak travel periods and they try to avoid them more than ever. I mean, most travelers now are looking at shoulder seasons for not only affordability, but also for the experience that and um you know the the line last year was that May is the new July, especially when it comes to traveling in like Nordic regions. And so people are picking different times of the year, and so obviously that's that's changing. Um, but let's get into some of the tourism growth and the strategy. And this is where I'm I'm I'm keen to know, given the role that you have as the director of tourism. So I'm gonna ask you a few questions here in one, and um, which is the strategies you actually are employing to grow tourism uh for St. Martin. I'm obviously keen to know what those are, whether it be you know social media activity or marketing campaigns that you have, TV, all the different uh DMO tactics, destination marketing organization approaches to uh to marketing a destination. But then specifically, um one of the keys I know from doing the Travel Zoo series is connectivity. So often it's trying to make sure that you are accessible for air, which obviously you have, and then by sea. Um and then the markets you're focused on growing, because all of that fits together with where you want to you want to see growth. So tell us how, you know, you mentioned the banner year you had last year for stayovers. How are things trending for 2026 and beyond? And what are some of the things you're doing to drive that?

Travel Advisor Training And SMART Event

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Well, number one, we we are looking at 2026 being also um higher numbers because we're gonna concentrate now on the slower months and try to attract more people in the slower months. And I'll tell you in a bit about it in a sec. Um, but some of the strategies we use and what makes us successful is one, you said it, air connectivity. So we have a very good since like many years now, the tourism bureau as well as the St. Martin, uh Princess Juliana Airport, International Airport, we work close together because there is no um, you're not gonna be effective if your airport has an airlift development that goes one direction and you're deciding to go another direction. It just does not make sense. So we were actually one of the first destinations that really collaborated this intense together with our airport. So we're always in constant communication, and our goal is we go one direction because with the airlift comes the marketing destination, right? Like you said. So we've been successfully um developing our air connectivity um from the North America side, um, you know, the Caribbean and Europe. So um our success lies in there as well. That's how we got more flights in last year because we attend, of course, these different uh airline conferences where we meet with airlines and network planning people to really talk about um why it's so unique to come to our destination, because we are the northeastern half of the Caribbean. So when you fly into St. Martin, then you fly also, you connect basically to all the other neighboring islands. And with Winair being our national carrier that goes to 16 other Caribbean destinations, we have the right formula, and this is how we can connect the Caribbean. So that is one. Number two comes then the strategy of marketing, and the marketing goes from two sides: business to consumer and business to business. What we have done after to go back a little bit, we started first with the strategy of business to consumers because we felt we had uh there was a reset button, we had a hurricane, it was a cleansing period, we rebuilt, um, talking about resilience, talking about everybody coming together at a difficult time and rebuilding the country. What you got was new properties, new product, but also a new opportunity. So, what we did is, of course, very little money. So we were like, okay, what is best to do? The trend of digital marketing came. So we made the sound decision. Okay, let's concentrate a majority on making the consumer aware to come to St. Martin, because that was also a challenge we had. We had a challenge where the consumers just didn't know St. Martin, they just chose other places because they had the funds to really spend all over the place so they were able to attract the consumers to come to their destination. So when we started doing digital marketing, we realized the potential of being more focused on who you want from where. And what we then did is we aligned it with what are our primary gateways? So where do we fly from direct? So in the States and Canada, for example, Canada was WestJet, Air Canada, usually Toronto, Montreal. Start there, those are your areas you market. Then from the states, it starts from Boston, New York, Philadelphia, um Charlotte, Atlanta, Florida, Miami. You choose those gateways where you're gonna market because proximity is it, a direct flight is where you get your primary people. And that's how we did it in Europe as well, Caribbean as well. That was the other strategy. And then after COVID hit us, that was you know a time where then we were like, oh, we're shut down now. So we worked on the whole strategy, how are we gonna reopen? We need to not only get the people coming back, we need to piggybank on the trends that are happening. So looking after COVID being closed up, people wanted to travel. So what do you do? You you make sure you take advantage of this travel fever sensation. And so now, and you have the sympathy travel, so we use our digital marketing to our advantage, but at the same time, there was a growth in home travel agencies, right? So we realized too, now we came to that point where we need to also do business to business, and we added sales component to it. So we made sure that we started uh, you know, communicating through marketing or through training, through webinars. We used to do a lot of webinars with travel agents and talking to the tour operators, but mostly the travel agents because you needed to get them to sell St. Martin again. So um, and that has been kind of our strategy and also um evolving our conference we have, which is the Smart Conference. It happens in June, uh June 23rd to the 26th, and it is a business-to-business conference where travel agents can come to St. Martin, and actually it has become a very effective and pretty big conference because now other islands join it, they sign up, they are a supplier, and now the travel agents and tour operators, the whole trade has a chance to not only talk to St. Martin, not only talk to Friend St. Martin, but all the surrounding islands. So it's a perfect place. And it's become the last year we had a lot of registration, and this is the way they educate because we are a conference that also lets them experience the island. So now it's an educational as well as business. And these are some of the strategies we use. And we have a few more coming soon, that is for next year, which is of course we want to have our own travel agent specialist program. So we're working on that.

How Advisors Should Sell The Island

SPEAKER_02 38:29

And that's what I exact exactly where I wanted to ask you with travel advisors and tour operators. You've mentioned both, and you know, understanding how important airlines are for partnerships to have that capacity. Clearly, often what happens, someone will walk into a travel advisor and uh or someone will reach out to a travel advisor, and they they know they want to go uh to St. Martin. They've been they've seen pictures from friends, they've heard great things. Um, but oftentimes travel advisors are the ones, and hence the name, that are um rather than an agent, obviously that's one of the things we've covered on this podcast with Matthew Upchurch and Virtuoso and moving from this idea of just taking a um uh processing a request um to actually making recommendations like a financial advisor. And so when you are training travel advisors on those webinars or even looking at working with uh tour operators, my my first thing was how important they are to you, and clearly it sounds like they are. Um, but how do you better position uh St. Martin? What are the the two or three things that you point out to them, even if it is overcoming misperceptions about the destination? What are the things you're trying to convey to them about the the St. Martin brand that they can turn around and uh promote the destination to their clients?

Island Hopping And Four Island Escape

SPEAKER_00 39:45

Sure. Um, first of all, it's uh it's a destination that gets you all possibilities for air connectivity. You have possibilities, so you're not stuck to one only. So depending on where you come from. Of course, the dual nation, the attractiveness that it is so diverse, but at the same time, we speak all languages here. So in English is widely spoken. So if we're talking only the North American market now, well, proximity is definitely one. Um, and the English speaking, it's widely spoken, everybody speaks English and beyond. So they might still speak Dutch, Spanish, French, and every other language. So um, as well as um it is so diverse, it has everything, it has something for everyone. So depending on your clientele and what they would like, if they want quietness, they can have quietness in St. Martin. They don't have to do the adventurous, and it doesn't have to always only be beach, it could be inland, going high, you know, hiking or higher up, being in places that are very nice and serene. Um, it could be more into the wellness. We have a lot of that now. That's an increase, as you know, wellness, and there is more and more wellness retreat on the island where yoga is done, meditation, workshops held, and people are organizing. Uh travel advisors even are organizing these types of trips to the island. Um, and um, of course, the ability that they don't even have to exchange, like dollars are widely accepted. We're very cosmopolitan. We have ATM machines. Um, they it's a safe island that they can drive around. Um, they can rent a car and drive around. It's not that difficult. And it's it it's uh or if they don't want to do that, they can also have a taxi that takes them for the whole week everywhere they want to go. And that kind of service, that flexibility of everything that it has to offer, um, you know, if is I think what we have to start with, why they should, you know, why they should choose St. Martin as a destination. Um whether it's uh on their own touring, or if it is um very highly active tours or experiences, or if they want to do only, let's say, water, they can. They can do diving, they can do snorkeling. If they want to actually leave from here, do a combination of vacation of land and ocean, they can have a yacht charter, they can have catamaran charters for the week and then come back, have another week here on the island. So you can do land-sea combination, and the most important, I can't forget, is the island hopping. We are the northeastern Caribbean. I know I'm getting to what you wanted to hear, right? Yeah, that's it. We are the northeastern hop of the Caribbean, but at the same time, I can be in St. Martin, visit the French site, visit Anguilla, visit St. Bart, go to Seiba, Unspoiled Queen, Sindustacea's, the Golden Rock, then go even to Nevis and St. Kitts with a ferry. So I can have five, six islands I can visit while I come to St. Martin. And guess what? We've been promoting it actually like that, that people now come and say to us, oh yeah, we're here five five nights and we're going now next to Anguilla, or we're going next to St. Bart. Or they took a day to um Seiba. And we created actually a promotion that was for the Caribbean, but it works well for the Americas as well. Is it's called the Four Island Escape. And that is in conjunction with a Mac the Makana Ferry. And the Makana Ferry has a package where you can visit all these islands, hotel included, the ferry included. So imagine now you come from Canada. I booked to stay in St. Martin, but you have a longer period of time to be here. You can actually book another four nights or five nights to be visiting these other four islands. And you have a whole other experience. And I feel that the trend of visiting the Caribbean is going to change. And we're the trendsetters in that now because we are able to. We're such a close proximity to Island Hop.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

Well, and the reason I lit up when you said that is because one of the things that's really important for me is staying over, not cruising. I'm just not a cruiser, and I know that's a big industry, and I'm not calling anyone who prefers to cruise, but for me, I like staying over and meaning, and and and it really stood out for me uh mailing too when we were in Galapagos with our family. The number of people and Galapagos obviously is a completely different uh geography and part of the world, but what stood out to me there was the number of people that said to us, thank you for staying over and not just cruising around these islands because the money gets into the hands of locals. And you're, you know, when you stay at a hotel and you eat out at restaurants and you purchase things, um, it's it really raises the local community. And I always see tourism as a force for good. And I know cruise lines often have the best intentions, and and you know, bringing people into port that can create lots of economic opportunities, but it's a different style of travel. But I lit up of that because you know, it is one thing when you know we stayed at San Cristobal Island and we went over Santa Cruz Island, you know, to go between the different islands, but then stay over. That to me is what I lit up on because the idea of going to St. Martin and having four or five days in St. Martin, but then also being able to experience a few other islands, knowing how beautiful it is, really appeals to me.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

And that is the beauty we have. And as we see it become more people are attracted to it, we are exposing it more and more that when we also have hosting media, when we have influencers or content creators coming, we want them to experience that, that they go also for a day to the other islands. Because the beauty of the Caribbean is every island is different. So if you come here first and you spend a few nights here, and like you say, you drop, you know, you spent your dollars here. It is good for the community. Um, especially what we're trying to do now is be more inclusive and have we have a lot of micro businesses that cater to the tourists. We want to enhance those so they are showcased more so that the people know more about them, so that people say, hey, yes, I want to buy from a local person because that's community-based tourism, right? So then you get them involved. So it doesn't become only of the bigger businesses make money, but your community benefits from it as well. And that is one of the things now we're busy with. But the idea of just knowing that afterwards you can hop on a ferry or even a small win airplane and in eight minutes be in St. Bart's. Hey, why not? And all of a sudden you're in the world famous island or you go to Sabah, as you, you know, some people love hiking and love the environment. They go to SAIBA and you have a whole other experience. And that's what it is all about. It's we cannot see it as we are the only person here. This is where we want you to go. It benefits all of us if you have a better experience as well by experiencing some of the neighboring islands.

SPEAKER_01 46:54

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Community-Based Tourism And Local Benefits

SPEAKER_02 49:01

And now, back to the show. Getting into the sustainability and community is one thing I'm really keen to ask you about. So obviously, you advocate for travel to the Caribbean and the region, and you're very supportive of your neighbors, and it's a very important time in the world, I would say, given recent geopolitics. Um, for diversity, that's one of the reasons I love you know being in Canada and growing up in Canada. And when I travel to destinations, you see people traveling from all around the world and speaking different languages, and it's one of the things that m delights many of us in the travel industry. Um, you know, that human connection is uh more important than ever as we lead our digital lives. And so when it comes to the local community, and this again, it's it's it's important to me, but I think it is uh pretty much all of our listeners is that you know the worst thing um and part of what I didn't uh part of the reason that I uh uh uh stayed away from doing Sun Holidays is because of the uh uh the dichotomy between you know the wealthy travelers and the locals, and that you know you had to stay in, you know, behind um um you had to you had to stay in kind of guarded places, you couldn't necessarily travel around. This was part of my frustration in seeing the way the the world is and the way obviously we'd prefer it to be. And so um it's one of the reasons that you know I traveled to Bermuda for the first time. My dad was Adam's British, so he obviously loved the history of Bermuda, he loves the shorts, and um and so but it was one of those places that he highlighted to me that you know you can travel around Bermuda, and there are Caribbean islands that unfortunately have their challenges, Dominican and Haiti. Obviously, Haiti, you know, and so uh one of the things I wanted to ask you, and this is where to advocate on behalf of local communities, which I know is an important part of your role. So if we think about sustainability, I want to know how um St. Martin is approaching responsible tourism and how you are, I guess, distributing the benefit. And because I always see that people want to discover different parts of the island or there's different experiences that have yet uh to be introduced to travelers, and you've mentioned many, but obviously this destination is continuing to evolve. So tell us please, Mayling, how St. Martin is approaching this and specifically the the benefits you're looking to bring to local communities with inbound travelers.

Salt And Soul Magazine Storytelling

SPEAKER_00 51:11

I love this question because I wanted to highlight that a bit more. Because with with growth and tourism comes also its its you know, imbalance. Because as you know, all over the world we have over tourism is being discussed, and then most of the time when you grow so fast, your um your community does not necessarily benefit all the time, right? That that is something that doesn't only happen to us in the Caribbean. We've seen it happen in Spain. I always give that example because that was the biggest one in the in that has been in the news, you know. How how imbalanced things become when the demand is there and everybody wants to benefit, or the ones that have it, and then what does it do to your local community? So going back to that is that our goal, oh, first of all, there's two ways. Our ministry, our new governing program, is set to make sure that we become community-based and inclusive of our community, that they can benefit from it as well. So that's one, not only in education and trying to make them choose careers in the hospitality industry and tourism industry, as you know, is large. So there is a there's work to be done there for us that we have identified that we need to become more interactive with our community so that they feel, hey, I can benefit from this growth, I can benefit from having my own business or work in tourism or work in hotel in hospitality. So that's one. And we are um we identify those play areas and we're gonna work on that in order for us to uh be able to start uh making sure that it benefits our community. And so from a government, so from a decision maker perspective, that is a goal. And we've started that already last month or two months ago, we had a forum, an economic forum, where we actually identify what is it that we want for tourism? Tourism, yes, we have growth, but it came with some, you know, like I mentioned, the traffic, the this and that. And how is how is our community benefiting from it? For example, we are known as the orange economy as well. We are known for talent, we are known for artists. How are our artists benefiting from being part of tourism? And that is where our job comes in now, right? As the tourism bureau, because we have to find content, we have to our job is to make the experience of the visitor memorable and a good experience that gives them that feeling that they've come to an island that that they immerse in their culture and in their people. So our job now is to pick those experiences, pick those businesses and products and services that make sure that that is what we put on the forefront, whether we market them more, whether it's through our media events that we bring them and let them experience and talk about, because we all know animation and digital is very important. Um and and making sure that they are part of it and they benefit. So that comes also with they have to be ready that when we start promoting it, and all of a sudden there is a demand, and as you know, a micro business, usually our businesses have still they have their own job, so they do this as a beginning. So it it becomes where you need the assist them, need to assist them as well to make sure that they can become successful as the interest increases. So these are some type of the um strategies that we're using. And one thing I want to mention is we came out, um, we had an idea to have our own magazine because you know every island comes with a destination magazine, right? And the destination magazine comes with a bunch of advertising, and it's all about oh, a section for hotel, a section for this, a section for jewelry, a section for shopping. And I wanted to be different when we uh when it we were approached about it, and they said, we want to create this magazine for you, it's for free. Um, I said, Well, nothing is for free, but it's a win-win situation. So, how are we gonna do that? So, we came up with the Salt and Soul magazine, that's our new magazine, and that it comes from the St. Martin Tourist Office. And the goal of the Salt and Soul magazine, it is a magazine about history, heritage, and culture. So instead of having the usual um magazine that talks about transcendency and shopping, this is about the people. This is how did St. Martin start? What how was Philzburg evolved? What is it all about, Marigold? What are the cultural events? What are the festivals? And then ads became actually stories. So the storytelling is the goal of this magazine. The storytelling of Bob, who used to be somebody who decided to open a restaurant, or a family business that exists for five generations, or these two dynamic young ladies that have one of two, which is jewelry from St. Martin with a little St. Martin um, you know, island in gold or silver, and it became a hit and they're selling everywhere, or one of our entrepreneurs with Aroma Islands. She does, you know, amazing scents. So these are the things we want to now. This is our first year. This is how we're gonna highlight and bring in the community, the artists, the businesses that basically reflect the essence of St. Martin.

Data Insights And Visitor Exit Surveys

SPEAKER_02 56:51

Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that. And when you started mentioning the example in Spain and Barcelona, it's really interesting that uh there's an episode that we did as a spotlight with Get Your Guide when I was in Berlin a few weeks ago, and they had done a study with a professor at a University of Milan to try and understand ultimately the outcome was that 75% of travelers to Italy only visit 4% of the country. And so there is these challenges with overtourism, even though none of us like that terminology, that far too many people are visiting far too few places and they're concentrating in the same areas, which then leads to ultimately negative traveler experiences and people coming away. So the the opportunity is a challenge. The opportunity to promote a destination, then all of a sudden, when it gets overwhelmed, people then start to turn away and say, oh my goodness, oh it's overcrowded, it's overheated. We've seen that with Italy for the last couple of summers. People are now avoiding the summers in Italy for those reasons. And everyone rushed back after COVID. And so I just have one follow-up question to this, and then I'm gonna ask you for a couple of takeaways and an outlook for the future. But one other question on this topic, and it came directly from that study and those conversations, which obviously our listeners can find if they want to listen to that spotlight episode for uh people in destination marketing, because I thought there was a lot to learn about what Europe is is doing at the moment that will apply to places like the Caribbean to understand how to avoid those issues of locals turning against travelers. And um, and so one of the things that they were using is data to better inform uh their decisions about their marketing strategy. So they were very intentional about getting people further afield or visiting different areas of a city and uh using things like spending data from credit cards or also uh roaming information, even uh vacancy rates of uh businesses in certain neighborhoods where they wanted to develop more tourism. I found that really fascinating because the intentionality of that is um is so purposeful that you know most travelers don't see the magic that's happening behind the scenes. Um, but this is what us in the tourism industry are trying to make sure that we prepare for our future. So I guess my my final question for you on this topic is there any other um data that you're using or any other insights you have from traveler behavior? And what I mean by that is that they're specifically asking you for, you know, where can they go to find that really quiet place? Or um, you know, everyone wants to find something that's undiscovered, but and clearly there is those opportunities still in St. Martin. But what are you seeing as far as data on insights on traveler behavior?

SPEAKER_00 59:19

You know, and and you're so right. Um the first of all, the travel behavior. We see the trend of um a lot of single travel, uh, younger generation, um, but we see also family, um, family travel and the the travel of I guess energy escape. So, you know, rejuvenating, the the they want to go somewhere to rejuvenate, to reset. Um, I use that word a lot because people are looking for places like that. So we see those trends happening and we see the potential they have to to come to the island at those different times, like I said, you know, choosing those slower months. But even if they come in busy times, because that's the only time they can come, we say, please, you're welcome to come at those times. You just have to stay away from the areas that are busy. So, for us, for example, you know, Simpson Bay is the very popular place. If you want to be Zen, then you have to go more inland, stay maybe at properties that are not in that area. You can stay in really nice properties in Oyster Pond area, which is you have JW Marriott, Oyster Bay Resort, you have villas because we're known for villas as well. You have Princess Height, that is a secluded area that gives you more of the peace, and you can drive out and go to places, and you have the ability to go from different directions. So I feel that um it is uh what we need to do now is looking at and looking at those trends and requests for those um uh type of travel and the data we are collecting, as well as with tourism exit surveys we do, because we do tourism exit surveys to ask also on their way out how did they like it, how much money did they spend, would they come back, what would they, what they didn't, what did they not like so much, because we need to know that as well. So, all these things we collect that data and we look if we are in the right direction or we see new opportunities. And where we do see new opportunities are the the traveler that's looking more for that niche, looking more for the rejuvenating, like I said, and and we have now some strategies that we're thinking of going more for uh more for quantity, um quality than quantity, because right now everybody is coming, but there's a potential here to also have that quality, uh I feel the quality tourism that you need to balance out the island. Because at the end of the day, we're only 37 square miles, and we love to have more and more and more people come, but every island has a cap, right? Um, we're not there yet, at least not in the high season, in the busy months that I mentioned, but all the other months, we have such potential to still come and you can immerse yourself in these types of traveling. And I think that is what we we use the data that we have, we look at where people are coming from. We're surprised also with some of the people that are coming and uh from new areas, and how did they find about us? How did they find out about us is because of um you know the digital marketing that we are doing, but also the word of mouth. The uh, you know, there's a lot of organic influencers and content creators right now on YouTube, TikTok, and all those places that um are promoting for free because we're not paying for this, but they're showcasing St. Martin in all these new ways. Um, we just had one where she was showcasing retreat, another one was show showcasing, you know, uh a girl's trip. Um, you know, so um there are all these opportunities we can't consistently look at and we say, okay, we are able, does it match with our product? Does it match with anything that we have? And we do, and that's where that diversity comes in, but that's where we have to now dissect and focus more to also kind of move people away from the busyness. So, yes, you might have the entertainment and the partying and the night and the festivals, but okay, what are the periods and areas that we say that's more for the Zen people or more quiet or more adventurous in hiking and outdoors? That has become a big thing for us here, the hiking. I think it's a matter of consistently looking at our data. We're busy improving our data, by the way, because we have the entry form now that is digital, the entry.sx. You fill that in, and then you come through our airport where it scans your passport and then it scans your eye and it opens the gates, and there you go, and your vacation start after you pick up your baggage. Um, so all that data is now gonna become available to us in the next couple of months with our dashboard, and we can, I'm sure of it that we are going to discover even more details on how we can market even more effective.

Must-Do Fish Market Breakfast

SPEAKER_02 1:04:26

That's great. I really appreciate those insights. And I just I have two two final questions for you, Mailing. One, I want to make sure all of our listeners know from your personal perspective, if there was one experience that they had to make sure they do while they're on the island, I've already known because I'm clearly like the fish market, that is my and I'm glad we talked about all this because I don't want the fish market to be overcrowded either, or like to be, you know. And so I I have a vision when you describe that to me of what it looks like, and I want it to live up to those expectations, and that's managing tourism numbers and the so but yeah, what would be an experience you'd recommend personally that every visitor should have?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:05

Oh gosh, you you're asking me one, there's so many. You know, um actually the one that I wrote down when you when I saw the question, I said it was the fish market because I feel we don't give them credit enough. Um, people know to go buy fish there, but there are six different restaurants there where you can eat local food and you can actually go at seven o'clock in the morning and eat breakfast. So that is one thing I want to say. Yes, they do have to experience. And they can, and each restaurant has a name of a fish. And they can I I will want to say yes, go ahead because there's plenty, they're there the whole day. But if you want fresh fish, go early in the morning. So make it a breakfast thing. But sometimes go also for dinner or so. That's my experience that I would like people to know more about.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:57

Well, hopefully you'll join me when I come across and we uh Have that experience together. But um this has been fantastic. I have one last question for you, which is you know, there's been a lot of highlights in this discussion, and clearly you are very positive and motivated and excited about the future of uh St. Martin. What keeps you motivated? And then also, if people are listening to this and now they're motivated to reach out and learn more information, where would you uh point them to uh to plan their trip or to plan a trip on behalf of their clients?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:27

Well, um, first of all, um I I think that uh visit our website. Start with our website, www.facationsaintmartin.com. That is our official destination website. It is ever evolving, we're updating it all the time, but it has everything on what to do, where to go, in all types of sectors, in all different areas, the different adventures, the restaurants, even selected in the areas on the island. Um I would suggest also when it comes to uh booking the island, the best is to go with uh you can book directly. If you're a travel advisor, you can book. We're not there yet because actually the plan is for our website to become bookable. And we wanna one of the goals for next year is that we want agents to be able to go on our website and even you know create itineraries. That's where AI comes. That's the next episode we can talk about the where AI is gonna be used, um, where they can uh basically, you know, find everything and design their own itinerary for their clients or for themselves. But um, when it comes to uh as an agent booking, uh it depends and it varies with the travel advisor. A lot of times they deal directly with the hotel and deal directly with the airline. Um, but there are also tour operators that sell us, but it depends on your clientele because if if the clientele is liking specific things, certain tour operators might not be able, you know, it's best that they book these things directly on their own. And on our website, you can find every single contact in that sense. And so it's either via a tour operator or calling directly. Uh it's not calling, it's online. They all have they all have uh uh emails, they all have contact numbers, um, and this way they can communicate and and book their vacation for the clients.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:30

Fantastic. Well, Mailing, I can't wait to see you in St. Martin. Thank you so much for joining us for this and educating all of our listeners on uh the beautiful island of St. Martin. And uh I wish you obviously you're gonna have a banner year, and I wish you and the team every success. And I look forward to keeping in touch.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:45

Yes, thank you so much once again. And I hope the listeners and some of your viewers um enjoyed and got a lot of information. And uh I hope to see you here so we can take you around to all the hot spots or as we say, the remote spots. And uh and yes, thanks so much. It was really appreciated and I'm honored.

Where To Plan And Closing

SPEAKER_02 1:09:08

Thank you, Mei Ling Chung. Great to meet you and thanks as well to all of our listeners for joining us and having a chance to learn about Saint Martin as I did on this discussion. I was so keen to have this conversation, and I definitely am looking forward to a continuation because I think there's still so much to explore in Sun Destinations. And the good news there is this is episode one. We have Club Med joining us next week. And these episodes drop every Wednesday as part of season seven. You can find the videos on our YouTube channel as well, so you can actually meet uh May Ling and many of our amazing guests that we'll have over the course of season seven to bring you closer to the conversations. That was the reason we wanted to launch into video on YouTube. But obviously, you can find us on every streaming platform, so make sure that you are subscribed on the streaming platform of your choice to be notified when new episodes go live. And then don't forget, we do post clips and highlights on all our social channels, LinkedIn, Instagram, and YouTube at Travel Trends Podcast. And I just wanted to say, in addition to saying thanks to Mailing and uh uh St. Martin Tourism for being a part of this, I also just want to acknowledge our sponsor, uh Olafly. And I mentioned them in the beginning, but I want to call them out again because we really appreciate our partnership with them. And for those of you who are now interested in going to St. Martin, obviously make sure that you have your eSIM. And so Olafly is a global leader in travel e-sims. They have more than 200 destinations, their instant QR code activation, unlimited data, and no roaming surprises make it really easy to stay connected wherever you go. So check them out for your next trip at eSIM.olofly.com. Thanks again for joining us for this episode. Thanks, Mayling, and thanks to all of our listeners. And until next week, safe travels.