Event Spotlight: Adventure Travel World Summit 2025

Recorded live in Puerto Natales, Chile, this special Event Spotlight takes you inside the Adventure Travel World Summit (ATWS) — the annual gathering of global adventure leaders hosted by the Adventure Travel Trade Association.

From rewilded national parks to the gravel roads of Aysén, from marble caves at sunrise to a tent shaking to the sounds of Los Jaivas, this episode captures the spirit of Patagonia — a rare mix of purpose and play.

Our host, Dan Christian shares his firsthand experience cycling through Patagonia on a five-day pre-summit adventure with CicloAustral, learning the meaning of “forest bathing,” and discovering how e-bikes, small groups, and community connection redefine sustainable adventure.

Along the way, we hear from an incredible lineup of storytellers, guides, and innovators from writers and filmmakers to operators and conservationists each revealing how to scale adventure tourism without losing the soul of the places we love.

We wrap with a look ahead: the next Adventure Travel World Summit heads north to Quebec City in 2026, continuing the global journey of this passionate, purpose-driven community.

Timestamps:

• 9m14s - Carolina Margado, Executive Director at Rewilding Chile
• 30m31s- Kristine Tompkins, former CEO of Patagonia, and Co-founder and President of Tompkins Conservation
• 58m51s - Nina Kokotas Hahn, Writer and Editor
• 1h23m - Kaiya Yu, Author 
• 1hr39m - Aizaz Sheikh, Keynote Speaker
• 2h4m - Gondwana Brasil - Camila Barp & Daniela Meres, Co-founders
• 2h33m - Rob Holmes, Filmmaker 
• 2h48m - Gabi Stowell, Travel Trade Specialist, Bannikin
• 3hr04m - Isabel Hofman, Co-founder, Bike Odyssey
• 3hr26m - Shannon Stowell - President, ATTA
• 3hr58m - Claudia Huepe - Co-founder, Cicloaustral

The #1 B2B Travel Podcast Globally. Over 100 Episodes. Listeners in 125 countries. New Episodes Every Weds.

https://www.traveltrendspodcast.com/

Chapters

• 0:07 Hope, Work, And Responsibility
• 0:50 Summit Setup In Chile
• 3:30 Cycling The Aysén Region
• 8:43 Why Pre‑Summit Adventures Matter
• 12:41 Tompkins Conservation Story
• 16:30 Rewilding Chile’s Model
• 24:30 Christine Tompkins On Legacy
• 31:45 Fighting For Hope, Not Wishing
• 37:10 Building Responsible Tourism
• 41:31 Nina Hahn On Content Strategy
• 49:38 Kyla Yu On First E‑Bike Adventure
• 56:35 Marketing Playbook With Azaz Sheikh
• 1:10:41 Brazil’s Gondwana: Purposeful Growth
• 1:25:10 Film Premieres With GLP
• 1:38:16 Gabby Stoll’s Next Chapter
• 1:47:18 Long‑Form Bike Odysseys
• 2:04:13 Why Chile, Why Now
• 2:19:36 Quebec City Announced For 2026
• 2:29:20 Claudia’s Guide To Aysén By Bike

Transcript

SPEAKER_11: 0:07

Honestly, I'm not hopeful. I don't even like the word hope. Because it implies a kind of a lethargy or a kind of people ask me, Oh, do you have hope? And I know what they're asking me. If I have hope, then they can rest. I don't like that. I think we have to fight for hope. You hope is a muscle. And you don't deserve to have hope unless you're getting out of bed every day and doing something toward your future. You're not abdicating your future and the future of all life.

SPEAKER_16: 0:50

Hello, everyone, and welcome to a very special event spotlight of Travel Trends. This is your host, Dan Christian. All of these conversations were recorded live in Puerto Natales, Chile, in October of 2025 at the Adventure Travel World Summit, which is the Adventure Travel and Trade Association's annual conference. I just wanted to start by acknowledging Shannon and the team at ATTA for bringing Travel Trends back to ATWS and making us your official podcast partner. Now many of our listeners know that we had the opportunity to attend for the very first time in Panama last year. And now I fully understand why so many Chileans were celebrating their selection at the conference, since I have the greatest respect for the deep beauty of this country now and its people. And I understand why you wanted to show the world of adventure travel just how amazing this region of the world is. I also now know what forest bathing is, but I'll come back to that in a moment. I just wanted to highlight just what makes ATTA so special is the fact that they offer this opportunity for a PSA, a pre-summit adventure. I didn't have the opportunity to attend last year, but I interviewed so many people in our very first spotlight episode that ran cycling tours and were telling me how fast growing this category is, given there's more active retirees as one factor, but also the introduction of e-bikes, which allow more people to join, like myself, and it also opens up new routes with longer distances. And I signed up right away when it was announced that I could join the five-day pre-summit adventure. And I chose a cycling trip through the beautiful Isen region. I ended up having one of the most amazing trips I've ever experienced in my life. We toured with a company called Ciclo Austral, which is run by a husband and wife team, Fernando and Claudia, who were both on the trip and ensured everyone had the most exceptional time. I highly recommend them. But there were about 12 cyclists that joined us from Europe, the USA, and Colombia. And I was the only one that was man enough to ride an e-bike. And I was actually the only person to arrive not having clip-on shoes. And Claudia reassured me that I would be fine. And ultimately, I'm glad that she did because I had the most extraordinary experience, but I definitely showed up like that kid to high school gym class that didn't have shoes, that didn't have shorts. And the one thing I definitely realized here I'm going to give you two tips for anyone else that is going to be similarly inspired like me after listening to this episode to take a cycling trip. And if you're going to jump on an e-bike, the first thing that you definitely need to know is padded shorts are a must. I was the only person not wearing padded shorts, and I walked like a cowboy for the first couple of days, and I even consider putting like rolled up socks in my shorts, and I warned other cyclists that they may be falling out on the road. Didn't need them, but the one thing I did do, and this is another tip, don't use the full power mode the entire time. You'll find out why. Because there's lots of hills, and if it's a cold day, there's a chance that you may run low on your battery and you may end up having to walk for longer than you expected, or figure a way to cycle with a 25 kilogram bike up hills. Nevertheless, it was actually a big highlight of my trip. So at the end of the day, even if that does happen to you, I'm sure you're still going to have an extraordinary time. But best to be avoided. The one highlight of having done that, though, is that we were making record time on pretty much every day because I was literally like the rabbit at the front of a greyhound track where all the other dogs were trying to catch up, and I was actually passing people regularly on the uphill. And that part definitely did not get old. But on this episode, you're actually going to hear from two other people that were on the tour. You're going to hear from Nina and Kayla, who will share some tales from the adventures that we had that week. You won't hear from Steve, but every trip has a Steve or an Allen, and they are an important part of the mix. We had so many great laughs that week. And I also discovered my new favorite band right at the end of the trip, which is Las Jivas. That's J-A-I-V-A-S, if you want to look it up on Spotify. But you can also check out the highlights from my trip on my Instagram at DC Trips. And this is where a pre-summit adventure becomes such an important part of the entire ATWS experience because you arrive at the conference with your tribe and you've had a shared experience in a destination that connects you. And it's just so powerful. You're actually going to hear how Shannon Stoll went to Rapanue, the Easter Islands. And I ask each of our guests who did the pre-summit adventures where they went. But I can't wait for you to meet not only Nina and Kyla, but you're also going to meet Claudia as well. We're going to have her join us for the end of this episode. So you can hear some of the tales from this trip that we're on and hopefully be inspired to take a trip like that yourself to the heart of Patagonia. And for those of you who don't get to do the full pre-trip, the ATTA has actually set up day two of their conference as a day of adventure. So everyone else at least has a day to go out and see the penguins, cougars, they can do hikes, they can visit indigenous villages. So no matter when you arrive, you at least have the opportunity to have one full day in the destination before the conference kicks off. And then we had three days connecting and learning from each other. And I had the privilege to host a panel on ATTA success stories. And you'll hear from two co-founders of a company called Godwana, who are based in Brazil, that joined us for that session. You're also going to hear from Azaz, who gave an amazing keynote speech. And we're going to have Rob Holmes back, the award-winning filmmaker. We also welcome back Gabby Stoll, who was taking on a new role over at Bannekin. We'll meet someone new with Isabel Hoffman, who runs a bike touring company out of Australia. And then we'll finish with Claudia and also Shannon Stoll. But this entire episode starts with the most extraordinary love story, and that is between Christine Tompkins and Douglas Tompkins. Now, Christine Tompkins was the very first CEO of Patagonia, the clothing company. She worked there for 25 years and 18 as the CEO. And she met and married Douglas Tompkins, who is the founder of the North Face and Esprit clothing. Now, he left the business world in 1990 to dedicate his life to environmental activism. And between the two of them, they donated land to create national parks and this entire concept of rewilding. They have Rewilding Chile and Rewilding Argentina. And we're actually going to start off by speaking to the executive director of Rewilding Chile, Carolina, who worked with Douglas from the earliest days as his executive assistant. So she knows the Tompkins Conservation Foundation so well. So we set the stage with our conversation with Carolina, and then we bring in Christine to talk about the future. And if you listen to her TED Talk, which is incredibly powerful, it was recorded in 2024 in Vancouver. I highly recommend you taking 12 minutes right after this and watching Christine, in her own words, tell her remarkable story and the well-deserved applause and standing ovation she receives for everything her and Douglas accomplished in their lifetime. And one of the most powerful phrases is you're not thinking big enough if you're trying to accomplish everything in your lifetime. It should go beyond your lifetime. And clearly that is the case with Douglas since he tragically passed away in a kayaking accident back in 2015. And Christine continues to lead the charge with the Tompkins Conservation Foundation. And the team is doing so many incredible projects. And I strongly encourage you to also look at the film dedicated to Doug's life, Wildlife, which was by National Geographic. You can find it on Disney Plus, and you can follow Christine's story. It is so incredibly inspiring, and it was such a huge honor to have the opportunity to sit down and speak to her, as you'll hear shortly. So I hope you enjoy all of these amazing conversations. Thank you again for joining us. I cannot wait to get back to Patagonia. I look forward to my next cycling trip, and I hope you join us on a trip in the future. Now, let's kick things off with Carolina from Rewilding Chile. Hello, everyone, and welcome to a live recording here in Porta Natales, Chile, at the Adventure, Travel, and Trade Association conference. I am so thrilled to be here and kick off this special event spotlight with two extraordinary individuals that I have the pleasure to speak to to open up this series. And my first guest is the executive director of the and I'm gonna get this right. Rewilding Chile.

SPEAKER_10: 9:08

Rewilding the Tompkins Conservation Legacy Organization in Chile, Rewilding Chile. Yes.

SPEAKER_16: 9:14

And my uh special guest, the executive director, is Carolina Morgado.

SPEAKER_18: 9:19

Morgado. Exactly. So great to meet you, Carolina. Thank you for making time for this conversation. Yes, I am working on my Spanish.

SPEAKER_16: 9:28

Um, but our listeners are from all around the world, and I want them to know the incredible story of uh the Tompkins conservation. And maybe let's start there because I want to talk about your incredible background as well, since you've been with the organization for 30 years. Uh but for all of our global listeners, tell us about the Tompkins Conservation first, and then we'll talk about rewilding Chile.

SPEAKER_10: 9:48

Of course. Tompkins Conservation, it's an organization um that started in the United States, and it was formed by Kristen Tompkins, former CEO of Patagonia for 20 years, Patagonia Inc., the company, and then Douglas Tompkins, who was the founder of the North Face Company when he was very young. But then after the Spree the Corp company, and uh both of them decided to um sell their shares and invest everything in to pay the rent for living in this planet. And in Chile and Argentina, we are so lucky that they decided to come and focus in creating national parks and rewilding efforts in Chile and Argentina.

SPEAKER_16: 10:28

And this is where it's one of the most incredible stories in travel and certainly in conservation. Sustainability, we've focused on that in many of our episodes. We've had sustainability uh series in season six, but and even Shannon Stoll, who's part of this uh podcast as well, the special event spotlight, we focused on sustainability. But when you look at the work that your organization has done and the incredible backstory, it is so remarkable. And I want so let's let's talk about some of the incredible work that you uh Christine and the team have brought to life. So the tell us a little bit about the the time of the organization, around 1990.

SPEAKER_10: 11:05

And they uh it started in Chile in 1992, and then after you know, a few years later, like maybe five to seven years later, it started in Argentina. So far, we have protected in collaboration with both countries, 15 national parks, and um and we have done extensive rewilding projects. We work with many, many species that are either on the verge of extinction or species that we have reintroduced in those territories.

SPEAKER_16: 11:32

And just so everyone can follow along, since so many of our listeners do multitask while they're listening to our podcast, it's Tompkins Conservation, so T-O-M-P-K-I-N-S, Tompkins Conservation.org. And one of the statements you'll instantly be greeting with is that we believe the world can be more wild, beautiful, and equitable. One of the things that stood out to me about that is equitable. Wild and beautiful are certainly two ways to explain Patagonia. And I know that's very much core to the Patagonia brand, that obviously Christine was the first CEO of, and we'll speak to her in a moment. But when you think about Tompkins conservation, that word equitable, to try and protect these forests, these create national parks, uh species. Tell us a little bit more about what that word means to your organization.

SPEAKER_10: 12:15

Well, I think that Chris can explain you from Tompkins conservation point of view, but from us as legacy organizations of Tompkins Conservation, we define equitable because we feel that we have the same rights as all living species in this planet, and we all deserve to thrive, and we do all the for efforts possible to give the non-human world that possibility.

SPEAKER_16: 12:39

And that that's the part that really shows me because I've not seen that use of wording in other organizations, and I thought that was particularly special. So that but now when we look at the work that you have done, obviously you had two incredible founders that uh have brought a lot of recognition and clearly the investment, but you've had to work with the government, you've had to work with so many different organizations. I want to understand what's actually involved in protecting a parkland and creating a national park.

SPEAKER_10: 13:06

Well no, what is involved is getting to know your territory, and we have focused all of our work in Chilean Patagonia, that is to say, from Puerto Mont to Cape Horn, which is Chile and Patagonia, and we have mapped out this territory identifying big-scale land opportunities, but also that those big land scale opportunities are sometimes adjacent to public lands. And when we have that figured out and when we are able to buy a big-scale property, we present to the current administration the possibility of collaborating and creating a national park. And why a national park? Because we think uh we see conservation, long-term conservation on the public hands more than private hands, and then also because um we can protect so much more and and we can give the opportunity for so many more people to connect with those territories when they're in the public hands.

SPEAKER_16: 14:00

And let's look at one specific example because we had the privilege to be able to actually go to uh Torres Delpine on our very first welcoming night, which is a beautiful uh national park. And so tell us a little bit about that particular national park and how that came to be and the work that you have done there.

SPEAKER_10: 14:16

Well, that particular national park, which is super emblematic of Chile, and and it's you know, it's like the most iconic park uh in Chile because I think because foreigners have put uh Torres del Paine in the public eye, really, visiting it from so many years. Um the the the uh more uh when it relates to our work, it's important to understand that Torres del Pine was also created um with the donation of uh an Italian, with a uh of part of the property when an Italian. So we use that a lot of it as as an inspiration because in the other seven parks we have helped create, we have always donated the land so the land can go back to the public hands of Chile and to all Chileans.

SPEAKER_16: 15:00

That's it's such an incredible story, and I want to talk about some of the other projects as well. The one thing I just wanted to go back to when you mentioned about Douglas Tompkins and knowing we're gonna speak to Christine in a moment. So, Douglas, you worked closely with her in the beginning, and I I understand too, uh Carolina, that you were his executive assistant to begin with.

SPEAKER_10: 15:16

Yes, yes, I was his executive assistant, and many more things enjoyed.

SPEAKER_16: 15:20

Clearly. And I so I always love when I get a chance to speak to someone that is so core to the brand, that's been there since the very beginning, and you're now obviously the executive director, a well-deserved role given everything you've accomplished with this organization. But what if we take us uh back to the foundation with Douglas? Uh, because I would love to cover that with you and then uh speak to Christine about her role because obviously Douglas sadly passed away 10 years ago in 2015 uh in a kayaking uh accident, quite unfortunate. Um, but he was an incredible adventure. As you mentioned, he founded Espree, he founded the North Face, and uh I love what you just described, which was the idea that he sold off all his business interests and he dedicated himself to conservation and this idea that I'm no longer gonna live rent-free on the planet.

SPEAKER_15: 16:04

Um tell us a little bit more about him. I know there's a Netflix documentary that people can look up called Wildlife. Um, tell us a little bit about more about Douglas and those early days working with him.

SPEAKER_10: 16:14

Yes. Well, Douglas was an incredible visionary with an intelligence superior to most of us normal human beings.

SPEAKER_02: 16:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10: 16:23

And uh that also had an incredible sense of ethics, not only with the land, or more over with the land, but also with every human he worked with. Um he was uh you know, he was like a jazz player because he made it. I mean he didn't come here with a master plan. So w whatever the decisions were made were made with an incredible flexibility according to the circumstances and to the opportunities and possibilities. So I think that he had a transcendent, he made transcendent choices in his life to create national parks, you know, not only to protect the land, but you know, help humanity, help uh all of us and help all the non-human world thrive. And uh he did it with the most uh generous uh possibility that invest all his fortune in a foundation that could promote. And he ended up with Chris, of course, giving the biggest land donation a h you know a person has given in this world to a state.

SPEAKER_16: 17:32

Yeah, well it's interesting when he arrived here in 1990 and ultimately dedicated his the rest of his life to uh sustainability and conservation efforts and environmental activism here in Patagonia, it was so interesting that the timing of his arrival in Patagonia coincided with Christine coming here from the US, where she was the first CEO of Patagonia. And I've listened to some of uh her TED talk, uh an amazing podcast that she did with REI. Um, and she talked about the fact that it really was uh almost like a miracle that the idea that this this dream she couldn't imagine it any other way. She fell in love with Patagonia and she fell in love with Douglas.

SPEAKER_18: 18:12

So how did that that's why I'm so keen to ask you, but having worked with Douglas and um so what was the sequence of events?

SPEAKER_16: 18:18

They both arrived here in Patagonia.

SPEAKER_10: 18:20

No, Dallas has come to Chile uh since very young, so he was very connected to Chile because he came to ski. You know, he was a class five kayaker, mountaineer, climber, he did the ascent of uh El Chalten um El Chalten, you know, the emblematic. Of course, yes, yes, yes. I forgot the name right now. But yeah. So anyway, so so he was very connected to Chile and Argentinian Patagonia. So when he decided where to go, he thought of our country. Aren't we so lucky? You know, he came here and um well, he ran into Chris, but they they both come from the small climbing world, so so they know each other, you know. They Doug's best friends with Ivonne Schonard was best friends, so so Chris knew him, but they ran into each other in Calafate by accident in one of Doug's visits, and Chris was visiting, yeah, and then I guess they fell in love. And uh, and then they soon enough Doug was already kind of living in Chile and Chris moved to Chile. And um, and we Chileans, you know, we honor them, and we feel so fortunate that they came here and really changed the culture and changed the way we can look at nature.

SPEAKER_16: 19:29

Yeah, it's amazing. There's uh there's a company in Canada called Roots, and it actually was founded by two Americans that came to Canada for their summer cottage uh holidays and discovered how beautiful it was, and it helped us understand how special it was. So it's sometimes it takes someone coming into a new place and being able to help everyone realize just how truly special it is, and then make sure that you're able to protect it. So this is where Douglas was so far ahead of his time. Yes. Tell us about some of those uh early years. Obviously, you had the he had the vision, he had the funding, but I'm sure there were a number of challenges to really well I think that as you say, when you have the vision and when you have when you have the funds, you can really change the face of a territory.

SPEAKER_10: 20:14

And that is what I find it exceptional with the work of Tag and Chris in Chile, how we can look at Patagonia today. But of course the 90s was the most controversial times and you had to have like a pretty thick skin to be able to go through those tough times in Chile. But I think Dad would say it that way too, that he wouldn't skip one of those problems because those situations, those controversies really made us Chileans think, which side are you, Mr. President? Or you know, which side is the society taking in terms of the protection of nature coming from a country that is totally based on destructive economy. So, you know, it was really tough and it was really hard, and they were we were accused of so many things, but I think that motivated to create it like the intellectual infrastructure of what conservation really means and how it's needed. Yeah, not only in Chile, but everywhere in the world.

SPEAKER_16: 21:13

Well, one of the things I loved that Carolina was sharing with me just as we were starting to chat and get to know each other before we started recording, was some of the very early initiatives that you had with some of like honey and some of the products that you were cultivating. And I love this part of the story because you know you can see the national parks, the marine parks that I want to ask you about as well that you've been able to protect, and the incredible amount of land is just extraordinary. And I obviously you've you know the success has been built over the time. Um, but tell us about some of those uh the smaller projects that helped you guys get started.

SPEAKER_10: 21:42

Yeah, because when you think about national parks or private parks or you know protected areas, uh it's not only about the land, it's about the people, the people that live around them. And then you we made a lot of efforts in the beginning. First of all, because Pumalin was uh at that time in one of the poorest provinces of Chile, the Balena province. So we wanted to generate hand labor because that would assure people people's permanence. You know, for years and years we have we have seen migration of the rural area to the bigger cities because of lack of opportunities. So we wanted to create an opportunity. Meanwhile, we created the park through conservation tourism that people would remain there or and there would be, you know, like an economic uh link between the community and the park because of visitation. But meanwhile, we were creating the parks. We developed all of these f um farms that were not part of the conservation project but were part of the vision. And those farms we did sheep, and with the ship we did wool, and then we had an extensive network of handcraft people, women, working from their house, feeling proud about you know their work and being able to sell those products and remain in their houses in their territory. And we did honey and gems and you know, you name it, we did all kinds of stuff. Um and we did folk festivals for people to feel proud about the culture. So that's the part not seeing about creating the love for your own territory, the love for your culture, because you need that link to appreciate your natural patrimony, and then you're gonna become the first line of this defense of that territory for sure.

SPEAKER_16: 23:20

For sure. And I love that you point out the folk festivals, the music and community. Uh when we were at Torres del Pine, we had the most incredible Chilean music experience with Los Javas. Los Jaivas. Yes. The most incredible experience with Los Jaivas. And they're they're poets, they're right. They're they're lyrics that I was trying to translate into English to understand, and I was playing it back the next day because I enjoyed the music so much, but it's so connected to the land, the people, and the history of Chile. So it's amazing that part of this you brought them in to be here as well.

SPEAKER_10: 23:49

Yeah, no, that was exceptional.

SPEAKER_16: 23:51

Now let's talk about where Tompkins Conservation stands today and some of the new initiatives that you're planning. I mean, you've got a fantastic team. Um so tell us about and I also want to make sure our listeners, if they I want them all to chat travel to Chile and have uh the experience that I've had here this week. It is such a special place in the world. Um, but tell us about some of the projects and then I really want to know how more people can get involved.

SPEAKER_10: 24:14

Of course. So 10 years ago when Doug passed away, Chris um asked ourselves, you know, what if I pass away really suddenly? So I want to create really strong teams. So he told us and the Argentines, you guys have to go independent. And I was a real shock. But you know, I so appreciate it right now what it takes, you know, to be leading a project in a country. So we went, so Chris wanted, you know, local teams to be totally in charge, make our own mistakes, but be strong for when she's not here. So we became independent, rewilding as rewilding Argentina and rewilding Chile. We chose that name because although it was not called the work we did for 30 years, it is what we have been doing. We have been through active management help ecosystem to restore and you know, and communities to get connected and core areas to be protected. So we have been doing rewilding and that's our name now. And in the case of rewilding, you know, Tompkins Conservation is essential for our, you know, Chris is our founder, uh, you know, our hero too, uh, for sure, like Doug, like Doug is. And um, so she helped us in all of that. But the local teams, like in my case, I run Rewilding Chile. I do, like Chris said to me, you know, Carolina, I just want you to understand that my problems now are your problems. So that's that's what is it takes. It takes a lot of um, you know, problem resolution and and strategy. But rewilding Chile now focuses on Chile and Patagonia. Uh in all the projects we have created, we are about to create National Park number eight on the Strait of Mangelian. Cape Flower National Park. It should be coming in the next couple of months. And but also we are focusing all of our work along the Antiguan corridor. We have so much experience in working with the Keystone species that we have projected our work. We're already working in central Chile with the repopulation of the Guanacos, with the network of Nature Sanctuary, the regional government of Santiago, and the University of Chile, working in Peru with other organizations in the Darwin, not Darwin's RIA, but RIAS, and also projecting our work all the way to Colombia. And do, you know, we need to expand our impact beyond borders, beyond frontiers.

SPEAKER_16: 26:29

Yeah, well, and this is where the I'm gonna say the challenge of the Patagonia is that it's Chile and Argentina. So obviously it makes total sense you've created the structure. And when you obviously you lead uh rewilding Chile, specifically in all these projects and a new national park. I want to make sure that you know other people take the opportunity to travel to Chile. What would be some of the reasons that you would provide to encourage people to explore this beautiful part of the world?

SPEAKER_10: 26:53

Well, you know, it one thing that it was Doug's last best idea, it was giving this territorial vision to Chile and Patagonia through the route of parks of Patagonia. So when you come to Chile and please do stop in Puerto Varas in the Lake region where Patagonia starts, from then on, all the way to Cape Horn, you will encounter 18 national parks. Not all of them have access, ten of them have public access, which is very important. But you know, just driving through this magnificent temperate rainforest, ice caps, Patagonian steppe, you know, we are not, you know, we are big, big, big on landscape and a really nice, welcoming culture, beautiful landscapes, and you know, a big percentage of priesting. We have a lot of you know challenges, but we have a huge priestiness in our territory, and you know, a fantastic place to have in a spiritual connection with nature.

SPEAKER_16: 27:51

For sure. And it certainly has had a profound impact on me. I'll even say, you know, Chile has changed me, but not necessarily as profoundly as obviously uh Douglas or Christine. However, in uh in my small way, I have seen the world differently from my time here and a completely different appreciation for wildlife and for the landscapes of Chile that you know that when you see them and you're they're so awe-inspiring, they have to be protected. That's your instant like uh reaction, at least that was for me. And doing a cycling trip for the very first time. I've never taken a cycling trip. Oh wow. I'm what I know exactly. I'm like, and now all I want to do is be able to take cycling trips because it's the most amazing way to experience such a beautiful place like Chile. Um, I know that you now have donations, and I one of the things I wanted to highlight because more and more travelers are willing to give their time and obviously uh uh also to donate to organizations like Tompkins Conservation. And I loved the uh the line that uh that Douglas had, um, which is uh if anything can save the world, I'd put my money on beauty. Yes. And I and this is where I you know I felt at the end of this trip. I'm like, what else can I do? What else can I like can I you know and so I'd love our listeners, if you, Caroline, if you could leave us with suggestions for beyond traveling to Chile, what else can travelers do to uh to help with continue with this vision and commitment?

SPEAKER_10: 29:09

Yes. Well, I I just want to stop on the beyond traveling to Chile because I think it's super important that conservation has an economic component to it. And therefore, developing infrastructure in national parks and allowing communities to connect this and have visitors experience the communities and the national parks is what it will help preserve this in the long time too. So coming to Chile is uh, you know, is is one fantastic idea. Please visit rewildingchile.org. We started our volunteer program again. We did it with Tompkins Conservation for years. So we are welcoming, you know, little by little foreign and Chileans to participate in our conservation efforts. And then, of course, uh if you cannot come and if you're a volunteer, spread the word, follow us, and if you want to contribute with your me with your funds, we also have that opportunity. Many travel agencies from different parts of the world are contributing with Rewild in Chile as part of their um what do you call it like like meaningful travel experiences.

SPEAKER_16: 30:12

It's amazing. No, thank you, Carolina. It's such a pleasure to meet you. It's such a uh wonderful experience to be here in Chile. The contributions that you've made to our planet are so immense, and I think uh I I extend this on behalf of myself, our team, and likely many of our listeners, but thank you. Thank you for everything you do.

SPEAKER_10: 30:30

A pleasure.

SPEAKER_16: 30:31

And I look forward to keeping in touch, and I can't wait to come back to Chile. So much gracias, Carolina. I now have the absolute honor to speak with someone I deeply admire and respect and have had a newfound appreciation being in Chile. The number of people that have said to me, You're gonna get to speak to Christine Tompkins. Do you know Christine Tompkins? I've listened to her TED Talk, I've listened to multiple podcasts. You have one of the most remarkable stories of anyone in the travel industry. I mean, let alone being the CEO of Patagonia, so you obviously have that background as well. But the work that you've done in conservation is truly extraordinary. And I just want to start our conversation where I finished off uh with Carolina, the executive director, by saying thank you. Thank you for everything you've done for this industry. Obviously, I mean, you are a hero to many people. I saw you on stage the first day, and I was like, oh my goodness, I get to speak to her tomorrow. This is gonna be so special. So, Christine, thank you so much for joining us for this conversation.

SPEAKER_11: 31:31

Well, I'm delighted and thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_16: 31:34

Of course, of course. There's such uh a special story to tell here about the Tompkins conservation, and Carolina has covered uh so much of the background and the detail and what I want to be able to do with our time together is talk about the future. Because you to me, and I was saying this to Christine just before we started, she knew Jane Goodall, she's a friend of Jane Goodall's Jane Goodall, and I I put you absolutely in the same company that the effect you've already had and the and what you're still contributing to the global community. So tell us a little bit about your role today. And I know that we just left off our conversation talking about the Tompkins conservation, and we have Rewilding Chile and Rewilding Argentina. So you've been pre-preparing for the long-term future for the organization, and hopefully you'll still be leading this for many years to come. But tell us a little bit about your role today.

SPEAKER_11: 32:21

Well, it you know, it varies, but um right after my husband Doug died, I talked to Sofia, who runs uh Rewilding Argentina, and of course Carolina, and said, uh we need to be, we need to make you guys independent as soon as possible. Because I think when I retired from my CEO role at Patagonia, and it was uh it all happened pretty fast, um, I didn't have a good succession plan. And it cost me dearly for several years after uh I left my chair in Patagonia. I'm still working at Patagonia, so just have my 53rd uh anniversary at Patagonia Company. But but uh once I realized or could think clearly, I realized that with only one of us left, it was really important that they become independent and uh not stop working together. But if something happened to me, everybody would be ready to just keep going without a slip. And I see the same thing for Carolina and Sophia. You know, I'm always talking about um how proud we are of the last 33 years, but I don't really spend a lot of time thinking about that because what I'm interested in is how do we use that work as a foundation for everybody's work now, and the I consider them the second generation. But how do you install the third generation, maybe perhaps the fourth generation, with a kind of I would say discipline and um strategic planning and a relentlessness that Carolina and Sophia and I share, and certainly Doug did, how do you install that so that what happens 50 years from now? That's what that's what really interests me now.

SPEAKER_16: 34:23

Well, and especially given that not only the legacy for what uh Douglas has achieved and what you have achieved and continue to do, but as you mentioned, the team and the people that will continue to lead this forward. And I think that's where, you know, speaking to Carolina, understand the number of projects, including the latest national park, uh number eight. Is that right?

SPEAKER_11: 34:40

Eighth in in uh in Chile, sixteenth between the two countries.

SPEAKER_16: 34:45

Extraordinary. And so tell us about some of the latest initiatives that you are working on across both organizations, because we obviously we've talked to uh uh about rewilding Chile, uh, but obviously you have uh uh Argentina to focus on as well across both borders.

SPEAKER_11: 35:00

Yes, I'm still so lucky I can work really the entire um Southern Cone territory. Uh I don't know if Carolina talked much about it, but certainly um I'm very concerned about the velocity at which things are taking place in the world. Not only are they unfolding, but uh the velocity. And so I ask myself and and these guys, we've had so much success over the last 33 years. But let's set that to the side for a moment and ask ourselves, what should we be doing that we may not be doing to expand the impact of our work, the efficacy of our work, and and um, you know, a lot of self-reflection about everything we do, my roles, their roles, the teams, and so on. So that's when we started saying, well, working in Chile, working in Argentina, the impact I think um is pretty high. It it's pretty started high, it's it gets higher and higher uh every few years as these teams mature, and the leadership, of course, with uh Carolina and Sofia has always been um alongside Doug's and my what Carolina always calls me relentless. And those are I consider that to be a compliment, although I know it's not always used that way. So how do you take what has been learned through through really good decisions and some mistakes as well? And and you uh if you take condors, for instance, you know, the population of condors in the southern cone is pretty healthy, but we know up in the northern headlands of of uh Colombia that there are very few condors left. So how do you take what we know, what we've had, what we've learned, and extend that out all the way up in the case of Chile, all the way up the Andes to the top of Colombia. And in the case of Argentina, um a lot through having been successful at bringing back top predators like the Jaguar, even though Ibera, where we started with the Jaguars, is almost two million acres, we still know now that the success of um a lot of rewilding projects insists that you move out and beyond the boundaries of a national park because jaguars don't know where the park is, and pumas don't know, Yandu don't know. And that really has been a a sea change in in our thinking. So as I said, Carolina and Chile is moving up the Andes in terms of uh whether it's Wanaco work, Condor work, Wemo work, and in Argentina, I just got back, you know, I'm here after two weeks working up there. And we're now we just announced the Jaguar Rivers Initiative, which is sewing together Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, and Bolivia. Because if you don't do that, if you don't start looking at conservation and your design for conservation driven by where are the where are the animals going? What do they use? The rivers, and in this case in the north, they're using the rivers. What what um what are the actual directions and and patterns that we should be following rather than just national parks? And that we just launched that in New York uh a couple weeks ago. And interesting enough, I I think this is super p important, and it has been for me. I'm the first of us to go out and start talking about these things with maps, with kind of what criteria we would set for all these things. And you know what? Not one person, whether it's the head of National Geographic or you name it, nobody has said, Oh, that's too big, it's too hard, uh, nobody's working on that style of rewilding conservation. The resounding response is yeah, of course. So that's obvious. I came home from the first, this was probably over oh well over a year ago, thinking, God, did we get here late? I mean, it it is like it's obvious, but we just are so trained to think in a certain pattern, a certain way. And you have to constantly force yourself to break out of those patterns.

SPEAKER_16: 40:12

Well, I would say it's obvious to you because clearly yourself and Douglas were such visionaries and had the foresight to be able to realize how important it was going to be to protect these natural environments, to enable pumas, cougars, or even as I learned on my trip, um, not only the condors, which is featured in the the uh Netflix documentary about Douglas, which is uh wildlife, everyone that has to watch that, but the uh the nesting area for condors, but one of the other is is the deer. I had no idea that the deers are endangered here in Chile.

SPEAKER_11: 40:44

Yeah, when you think about the Weymool deer, very tender, quiet, beloved species, but they're you know, they're going extinct. There are fifteen hundred of them left between the two countries. So when we first started committing ourselves to working to try to bring this species back, we were thinking about Patagonia National Park. We were thinking about up near Furle Fu or but when you really look at it, that species goes from Cape Froward down here on the Straits of Magellan all the way up to Chi'an, just south of Santiago. And w even we weren't putting that together. Like if you're gonna serve if if you're if you're headlong into saving a species, you've gotta know their territory. You have to understand the extent to what has been lost. And if you can't understand those things, if you don't discipline yourself to really understand the history of the species, um, then you're gonna have a really hard time being successful to bring it back. And the same thing is true whether you're going up through the Baraná Basin to the Amazon or or up the Amazon from here in southern Chile. It it has been a sea change and really brought us tremendous happiness to have committed to this arc, the arc of a species, rather than just in a particular park here and there.

SPEAKER_16: 42:23

Well, one of the things that also really stood out in your story, and also when I've listened to you be interviewed, you've talked about risk. You mentioned also just a moment ago about not having a uh not having the transition team in place or being conscientious of legacy. I do know uh from listening to a number of your interviews that when you moved to Patagonia and when you had the new executive team, the new CEO and CFO, and you were looking at the transition, you came here with that team, you obviously fell in love with Patagonia and you met Douglas, and the two most incredible things in your life happened. I think most people would look at you and say, Wow, you had this incredible job at Patagonia. You started there, you worked there in the summer, you it was your first job, you're the first CEO, you went from you know shipping and receiving to you know running this incredible organization that is globally respected and admired. But your second act has been that much more profound and meaningful in the work that you have done here. And um, but one of the questions I wanted to ask you was this assessing risk, because it's one of the things that you had highlighted, and I found that so fascinating because it's not something I often hear uh people talk about. And uh clearly the the thing that stood out to me about that, Christine, is that you recognize the risk to the environment and to what was going to happen if someone didn't step in, Douglas yourself. And so tell us a little bit about how you assess that, how you look at projects and how you decide on what you're gonna focus on next because you recognize these risks.

SPEAKER_11: 43:49

Well, first of all, I think uh all of us are pretty good at assessing risk. I do. And that comes from a lot of different personality traits and so on. And I welcome I my I think I do my best work, and I would say this a little bit about Carolina as well. When we start at zero, when something's if it's not impossible, it's close to it. And you're starting at zero, you have a canvas upon which you can paint a masterpiece. And and just that is the original risk because a lot of what we've been doing, nobody else has been done, you know, they're not doing it. That said, when we got started with rewilding, we were going to South Africa, we were going to Kenya to meet with people who were the best and the best of largely translocating large mammals from one place to the other. But these guys are they're genius. So yes, we like to take on risk, but we also are super clear that we're going for success. So calculated risk, how do you mitigate that risk? You go to the best people in the world, and in those days, and they're still right up there, is go to Africa and figure out we didn't even know the questions to ask. So, yes, we're super comfortable with risk. Um, we know that especially in conservation uh and the rewilding parts of it, there are no very few trails to follow. And so I think that's where actually I would say we do our best work.

SPEAKER_16: 45:32

That's fantastic. And obviously, that clearly is the case. So that and um when you look at the organization as is today and making sure that you know the legacy, because one of one of the things that I want our audience to understand too about the Tompkins conservation, because hearing the story of your background and Douglas's background and how the organization started, obviously it started with the two of you combining funds and then you know launching these initiatives. But as I understand, speaking to Carolina, that today you you don't take government funding, that's an important thing I think for our listeners to understand as well.

SPEAKER_11: 46:03

That's correct.

SPEAKER_16: 46:04

But you do obviously engage with family offices and um so tell us a little bit about how the organization is funded today. For those people who are listening to this that are amazed at your story, have not heard about the Tompkins Conservation Foundation before and how they could get involved.

SPEAKER_11: 46:21

Well, first of all, all are welcome when it comes to conservation rewilding. But um when we got started, we had personal finances coming out of the out of the business world, primarily Doug's, less so mine. And um we have used that for the early years, uh, kind of finding our way to what what were we going to do? What would be our strategies? And so a lot of the initial big territories were purchased with our family foundation funds. And and we always knew that at when Doug and I are both gone, we never wanted to just keep the Tompkins Conservation Foundation going. We want to spend it down while we're alive. Because we believe in people uh whom we've worked with for over three decades now, and we also have a point of view about speed, we talked about risk and and um going for broke. So I think our foundation put in just over 400 million dollars over you know three decades. Well, it sounds like a lot, and and it it is a lot, but it's it's not nearly what's necessary. So about one-third of the way into the early years, we wanted to take on Patagonia National Park. And I didn't personally have enough money to buy all the land, and it was so extraordinary, there was no question not to do it, but the big question was how to do it. And that that's really the first example when we um took on or were graced with, this is a better way to say it, graced with partners, mostly good friends, uh some of Doug's business pals, um, you know, the Chinard family at Patagonia Company. And that that um that kind of idea about having your own assets, but understanding that it's never enough. I don't care how much money you have, this kind of large-scale long-term conservation takes willful um the examination of how much you can put into it and how much um outside partnerships are necessary. And that's still that's still true.

SPEAKER_16: 48:54

Tell us a little bit about your vision for the future. 2050 or even 2100 for that matter, whether it's 25 years from now or 75 years from now, what is your vision for this region and specifically for the foundation long term?

SPEAKER_11: 49:09

Oh, I think um in in terms of Chile, Carolina's leadership organization, uh, I don't have to worry about what's it gonna look like when Carolina's gone. It's gonna change, that's for sure. But we have plans, we have strategies that can play out over many decades out into the future. So I'm 75, just and especially with this expansion into uh extending into other areas in South America. I would say for Chile, there's a game plan on deck that will go m many, many years into the future. So, you know, I can die ha happily. Same thing with Argentina, because what we've taken on just in the last year or so, year and a half, will take whatever's left of my lifetime, most of theirs, and then all again, I can't I can't say enough, the third and fourth generations of of conservationists who are gonna be leaders in this kind of tragic effort to save important places, the jewels of a place, bringing large ecosystems back into deep health and and uh I don't know. I I don't worry about the future. I I see it, and I think these guys see it. And I I just think we've been so blessed to work as these teams together, the leadership for so long, and we argue like cats in a bag, and we you know, we have very, very unique relationships that survive the bad times and the good times, and I'm not worried about the future. The future is these guys and whatever they put up on the table after they're gone.

SPEAKER_16: 51:20

Yeah, you you've spoken about a number of things that have really struck a chord with me, and I'm sure many of our listeners as well. And one of the things, you know, you talked about risk, but you also talked about the philosophy of change. And there's a couple last questions I had for you, and I just wanted you you are you know incredibly inspiring, and also you to me represent hope. And I feel that um for all of us to be remain optimistic about the future despite current geopolitical challenges or the state of the world or coral reefs starting to die off, and all of a sudden, you know, this this feeling of panic about the future of our planet. What keeps you hopeful and optimistic?

SPEAKER_11: 51:55

Well, honestly, I'm not hopeful. I don't even like the word hope because it implies uh a kind of a lethargy or a kind of people ask me, oh, do you have hope? And I know what they're asking me. Are there if I have hope, then they can rest. I don't like that. I think we have to fight for hope. You hope is a muscle.

SPEAKER_03: 52:19

I love that.

SPEAKER_11: 52:20

And you don't deserve to have hope unless you're getting out of bed every day and doing something toward your future. You're not abdicating your future and the future of all life. So I don't accept hope. And you know, if I'm speaking in public, people are like sinking into their chairs. But I uh the more I think about it, the more adamant I am about it. You have to earn it. You can't just hope somebody's doing something out there that will change the trajectory of your life. If you're not in the absence of work, you are abdicating not only your future, which is your business, but you're abdicating the future of billions of species, including human communities, who, by the way, half of them on the earth are suffering in an intolerable way. So, you know what? I'm pessimistic for this century, and I'm driven by pessimism.

SPEAKER_17: 53:27

Interesting.

SPEAKER_11: 53:29

I'm I get up every day and work because I am tragically mournful about what's taking place in the human communities. If you live in the South Sudan, you you are not swimming in the sea of hope and glee. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_16: 53:46

So that's not talked about enough.

SPEAKER_11: 53:48

That that dri that's what drives me.

SPEAKER_16: 53:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11: 53:50

And I I don't I don't want to be on the team where people are not rolling up their sleeves and doing something. Maybe it's not their full-time job like it is for us, but boy, this sense of abdication, of kind of lying backwards and just let the world and the economic story roll over you. I'm not gonna be on that team. I don't, I don't respect it and I don't want it.

SPEAKER_17: 54:17

Well said.

SPEAKER_16: 54:18

Now there's one one more I'm so glad I asked you that because that's an important clarification. Hope optimism. And I think so. Here's my question, last question for you, Christine. We're all here together in beautiful uh Puerto Natales in Chile.

SPEAKER_11: 54:32

Yes, I'm looking at it now.

SPEAKER_16: 54:34

And it's extraordinary, and I've had the most incredible week years. This is my second time in Chile, so I've had an amazing time coming here with my family once before. And so I I knew what I was in for, but this trip has been far more profound than I could have ever expected. And as we are at the ATTA, the Adventure Travel and Trade Association conference, and many people uh like myself have had a massive impact of being here, seeing you on the stage, myself having the privilege to be able to speak to you directly. What would you like people to leave this conference with and this podcast for all those people that weren't able to be here and experience this in person? What is your message to everyone, and maybe if it is about what action they can take? Because I actually think those words are far more inspiring to actually get up and do something. What what would you like everyone uh to leave this conference with or uh leave our conversation with?

SPEAKER_11: 55:25

Oh gosh. I I guess I would put it this way. Tourism historically is sort of going into a territory and skimming the cream off the top and then getting back in the plane and going home. My hope for this industry is that that disconnection vanishes, that there is a sense of responsibility for people who are going into beautiful places or you know, rare species wherever people are traveling, that you don't take it for you don't take that love of that place for granted. Because the people who are of those places can't hold up under the pressure of tourism and everything else coming at them without the extension of a hand from the very industry who is loving it to death. So I if I were gonna do uh a gathering like this, I would really add in the challenge and the ask. Don't just go be part of what that is. And you can't join groups in every place you go to around the world. I understand that. But look around and be aware. What is what do these places need? What are the what are the voices of these places? You have a responsibility to participate in the maintenance of these places and people whom whom you love, who you find inspiration from. Because I feel, and I could be wrong, and I apologizing to everybody if I'm wrong, but it feels a little bit like a one-way street. You go in and you come out, and and the joy, I can tell you, I was in business for a long time, still am. And if Doug were alive, he'd say the same thing. Getting into conservation rewilding has changed our lives in ways that no successful business, no fabulous trip, no nothing can compare to rolling up your shirt sleeves and going and working for these things, people, and places that we hope last forever.

SPEAKER_16: 58:00

Thank you so much for sharing all of those valuable insights, the meaning, the purpose. It is so inspiring to sit next to you and have this conversation. I can't thank you enough for making the time, and I certainly encourage all of our listeners uh to get involved. Obviously, traveling to Chile, Argentina as well, but also the Tompkins Conservation Foundation, the work that you're doing and the future with the team that you've built is very bright. And I thank you again for everything you've done, and I look forward to following your journey because you are, you know, you have so much still to offer. You've done so much, but you still have so much more. And uh, I look forward to seeing your continued success. So thank you again very much.

SPEAKER_11: 58:38

Well, you're very kind for those words. And um, I think we're lucky we love what we do. So thank you very much for having us here.

SPEAKER_19: 58:47

You're welcome. Thank you.

SPEAKER_17: 58:50

All right.

SPEAKER_16: 58:51

I now have the the fine pleasure to introduce you to Nina Kakotas Hahn, who's a journalist. She is a content strategist. She has an incredibly impressive background in the travel industry, working with brands like ANK and also with Expedia. She did an amazing panel session that she moderated here at the ATTA conference. And most importantly, she was my e-bike buddy as we had went on the same PSA trip together, which was absolutely extraordinary. So, Nina, welcome to Travel Trends. Thanks so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_09: 59:23

Thanks for having me, Dan.

SPEAKER_16: 59:25

For sure. Tell everyone where you're from.

SPEAKER_17: 59:26

Chicago.

SPEAKER_09: 59:27

I'm from Chicago. I'm not far from you. Not at all. Exactly. It's like a hop skip in Patagonian terms.

SPEAKER_16: 59:32

For sure. Yeah. Um, tell everyone a little bit more about your background. Obviously, I gave everyone a brief introduction, but you've done and accomplished so much in this industry. And I want to talk about your panel, and I also want to talk about our pre-shops since it was so special with Claudia and Fernando and our e-bike crew. And um, but yeah, tell us uh tell all listeners a little bit more about Nina and what you've accomplished because it's pretty impressive.

SPEAKER_09: 59:55

I've been a travel journalist for a little over 20 years and And I write locally for Chicago magazine. Um, but I also contribute to Travel and Leisure, Condi Nas Traveler, and Afar. And I sometimes we'll go on NPR locally too and talk about travel. Um I used to do TV, but face for the morning, right?

SPEAKER_17: 1:00:15

You and me both, Nina.

SPEAKER_09: 1:00:16

Um, so we And that's not true.

SPEAKER_17: 1:00:19

Uh that's that's not true for you. So yeah for both of us.

SPEAKER_09: 1:00:23

Um so I've always done that on the side, but I worked in market been working in marketing and advertising for about as long, and I did that work full time. And that work um kind of led me on a journey towards travel. My mom was a travel agent, so it's always been part of my upbringing. Um, and when I started working in-house for Expedia, it really kind of took off for me that this was my place, like the stars had aligned and kind of led me to like, oh, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. Totally. So I really just made a decision to laser focus on travel. And from there, I went to work for Abercrombie and Kent for almost 12 years, and then I worked for Eleven for a bit. And Eleven is a luxury heliski operator. Um, but from that I decided it was time to strike out on my own. Um, wonderful experiences at all of those companies, but I think what I found was resonating for me was wanting to do more around responsible, sustainable travel. Um, and being a consultant, I made a commitment to align myself with clients whose values are similar to mine.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09: 1:01:32

So some of my clients include today, Explora, um, and they do a wonderful job with their conservation products.

SPEAKER_16: 1:01:38

So I'm and I I just want to mention that because we actually first met, it's only been like whatever, a week, week and a half ago, and we jumped on the shuttle, and you were working away on your laptop and finishing off a project, uh, content strategy project. And I obviously got to I know I know what content strategists do, but I actually hadn't met someone quite like you before that is so experienced in some of the things you're working on. Their projects were so interesting. And I told Gonzalo, as you know, just how like exceptional you are because you are like super talented. And I let him know that because he was on my panel, and I was I learned more about Explora from our conversation as well for what you've been working on with them. Anyway, but yes, you have a really unique talent, and I that's like one of several reasons I wanted to have you join us to give our audience a bit more of an understanding of what you do, because so many organizations talk about content strategy and just really just don't get it right. And uh um, and you need someone that has that domain expertise uh within travel because you've kind of you have that unique background where you've done journalism and marketing, and usually you're on one side or the other, and I'm a marketer, I'm not a journalist, and I said that to you, and whereas you've been both.

SPEAKER_09: 1:02:44

Um that was an interesting journey for me because back when I was doing both 15, 20 years ago, it was worlds you kept separate. But today, it actually is such a unique badge to have. It's like a really amazing that I have both, and something that I really try to embrace now together.

SPEAKER_16: 1:03:05

Explain content strategist, like what that role actually is.

SPEAKER_09: 1:03:09

So, today, what that role is in the most simplest of terms is we are no longer looking at just creating brochures or even a brochure and a website. There's so many means of getting your story told across so many different channels. So you've got social media, and social media can be fragmented into Instagram and LinkedIn and YouTube, and then you've got your emails, and then you've got your website, and then you do have brochures, and so on, and so on. And also there's your press arm. So your PR movements, like who are you working with, where are your stories? So you're constantly navigating today an overwhelming number of content channels. And what a content strategist does is, you know, zooming up from there helps you figure out what your story is and how do you tell that story across those channels. So in the simplest of terms, it's that.

SPEAKER_16: 1:03:56

Yeah, no, that's important to explain that. And I think that's where certain people refer to themselves as strategists. And it's for me, I've come across certain people that claim that title but haven't really earned it. I guess is one way to put it, that they are, you know, a couple years out of university and they've got a little bit of experience and now they're a content strategist. That's where you're very different in that regard.

SPEAKER_09: 1:04:17

So um I appreciate hearing that because I do think it's something you have to have some experience in each of those channels in order to really understand how they all work.

SPEAKER_16: 1:04:24

Yeah, totally. And that's why I want to talk about this session that you did that you were working so hard on to prepare for, both with the panelists and all getting your notes together. And I I attended your session, it was fantastic. I know you ran it twice, and a lot of our uh I'll call them team members from our uh bicycle or cycling group joined as well.

SPEAKER_09: 1:04:42

And obviously, it's great to have the support.

SPEAKER_16: 1:04:44

Totally, yeah. No, for sure.

SPEAKER_09: 1:04:45

I mean everyone I felt the love on stage.

SPEAKER_16: 1:04:47

Oh, I'm so glad because everyone like adored you, Nina, and you were so much fun to travel with. But yeah, tell us about the panel, uh, the concept, the panelists, and what you tried to get across.

SPEAKER_09: 1:04:56

So the panel, the panel was um content strategy and storytelling or content creation and storage storytelling, and really it is about navigating the sea of options that you have today. And so many people are struggling, and I think internally for marketing teams or any brands that are out there, the biggest struggle is being understaffed or under-resourced for all of these different channels that we have to navigate now. I think I mentioned this in the panel that some people think all the work that is being demanded of social media can be done by like a junior social media specialist, and that is not true. Maybe once upon a time it was, but it's no longer true. So it we were talking about all of the options you have, and if you have limited resources or staff or budget or whatever it may be, how do you prioritize where you should be pushing your stories? Should you promote traditional media trips so you can get press coverage? Should you be instead spending the money on content creators or influencers to create videos for you and give you a bigger presence on social media? So we were talking about the balance of those things.

SPEAKER_16: 1:05:57

Aaron Powell And tell us who your panelists were. It was a really interesting group of people that came together to have this discussion. So tell us a little bit who your panelists were.

SPEAKER_09: 1:06:04

Well, and the other all the four of us straddle different worlds. I think everybody who deals in content isn't doing just one linear thing. So we had Steve with us, and I'm gonna forget every Steve Dick Dickinson. Um, and he runs Pacific Media in New Zealand, and he um he has an editorial background, but also does content creation. And his I think the way that his ed what's successful about him is he has both print and digital, and he's been managing to run both for many, many years. So that's impressive in today's climate. But I think he operates differently, as you saw, some of the provocative questions from the audience, right? Um so he operates differently in New Zealand than we do in the US market, like, and we can get into that question in a moment. But Brendan Mark was also uh he's runs Heliconia, which is based out of um, he's in Canada and he does a lot of video for destinations, and he creates that video in a way that feels editorial, like people being interviewed, like you and I. But he also is really what I think he's doing in a very intelligent way is thinking about distribution. So a lot of these companies are thinking about creating great videos and giving you great content, but then what do you do with it and how do you maximize it? And he's really given a lot of thought to that for his clients. And then we have Ann Howard, who was with Honey Trek. And Honey Trek says that they've been on the longest. Her and her husband both created this, they have a social media presence. They're uh on their third third book. They're really into glamping.

SPEAKER_16: 1:07:34

It's like it's endless honeymoon.

SPEAKER_09: 1:07:36

Uh yes, it's the it is literally, I think it's something like the it is the endless honeymoon or some some kind of tag.

SPEAKER_16: 1:07:41

Yeah, she was a great speaker. She was really quite effective, and it was an interesting story. That's where I've like I wanted you to highlight the panel because it was a diverse conversation.

SPEAKER_12: 1:07:48

Totally diverse, right?

unknown: 1:07:49

Right.

SPEAKER_16: 1:07:50

And and then so with that panel, what were some of the big takeaways that you wanted to uh ensure that the audience could action, take away, and apply to their business?

SPEAKER_09: 1:07:59

Well, I I'd go back to the distribution content or distributing your content. That is really important because if you're razzled by someone who can create content for you, and these projects can be really expensive. Like if you send a film crew out to make content for you, what is the plan afterwards? Like what is what are you gonna be doing with that material? How are you gonna get it into the right hands? So I think thinking about distribution is the next level step. It can't just be great content. You have to think about how you're gonna push it out there. So for the editorial side of things, which Ann, myself, and Steve all straddled, I think that the conversations were really interesting and helpful for the audience that was present because we have a lot of people here who are looking to get their brands and their destinations and their experiences out in the press, and they want to work with people like me and Ann and Steve. Um, and having an understanding of how those relationships start today is really important. And there is sometimes an assumption that we can get a confirmed letter from our editors, and that really doesn't happen anymore. It's just it's become very um flooded and very understaffed, and it just doesn't, it's not something that you typically see. So that's where that comment from the audience came when Steve operates differently. He is able to provide that, it seems, and maybe that's different in New Zealand, but in the U.S. market, certainly we don't get a lot of that confirmed coverage. So um we didn't want, I thought it was great that the woman in the audience stood up and said, we don't want people here to get the wrong idea that we can provide a guarantee because we can't.

SPEAKER_16: 1:09:29

Yeah, no, it was important. Um that and I it was framed as a debate, and obviously it didn't play out that way. We didn't intend to be a debate with the audience rather than just debate with the people on stage.

SPEAKER_09: 1:09:41

I actually hoped it would. I thought that that was great. I was excited that crossed over.

SPEAKER_18: 1:09:45

Yeah, you probably broke the fourth wall. Yes, yes, just all of a sudden you had people that were standing up and and saying things to Steve.

SPEAKER_16: 1:09:52

And I just thought that and it was important because Steve had very strong views, and it was like from the very beginning, you spoke, you you you know, you introduced him first, and he had strong views about micro influencers, and he kind of would make a throwaway comment about the fact that you know, like if you have your you know your parents and your and your nanny following you, you're like, and uh and uh and so I'm sure there were some people that were a bit taken aback by the comment because there's actually a lot of value in targeting micro influencers, so it's a different approach. But I understand his point was that sometimes microf influencers are kind of overplaying their hand with asking for things, so that would be frustrating for some brands. So he you know he had his firm views, but I think that's where it added some dynamism to the discussion. And then the idea that you needed a letter from your publisher, and everyone stood up and said, No, you don't. We can't get that, so we can't set that expectation.

SPEAKER_03: 1:10:37

Right.

SPEAKER_16: 1:10:38

Um, and I know Kyla, she joined this uh podcast, she's obviously a friend to us both now. And uh she was part of the audience and she spoke about that. But um, I want to talk also just about ATTA in general, because you know, you are um you are, you know, like and I I I almost can't talk about this without mentioning our trip because you know, part of what makes this community so special is the human connection. And we all had such a terrific time with our group. So I'm gonna I'm gonna tie these two questions together because you know, we have this awesome WhatsApp channel that has been hilarious, it's like been like the highlight of my week as a follow-on to our trip.

SPEAKER_09: 1:11:15

The only important channel to pay attention to.

SPEAKER_16: 1:11:17

Like it's been absolutely hysterical, but it's like we had such a great group on our trip. We obviously were Claudia and Fernando, and you'll hear from Claudia shortly in this episode. You know, husband and wife couple that run this cycling trip. We all joined myself, uh there was a couple of us who were like least prepared, and I was like, I'll put myself in that club. But um, but for whatever reason, the team that the group that came together was just so wonderful. Like it was a magical five days together, and like I have not laughed that hard, and you kindly mentioned that to me as well. Like it was just like there were so many laughs, and there's just so much uh fun and joy. And then we get to a conference like this, and we already have like our built-in friend group, and it just takes on a different dynamic. So I guess where I was going with this question is the you know, some of the highlights from ATTA, and obviously the pre-ship was probably the biggest highlight that led to you know this conference being so special. Um, but yeah, tell us about some of the other things beyond your panel about being at ATTA this year that were have been the big highlights for you.

SPEAKER_09: 1:12:14

Well, this is my first time attending the summit because the long it's it's a long commitment. It's for sure. You do a pre-adventure and then you're here for a week.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09: 1:12:22

Um, and I haven't been able to make that commitment before, and I was super excited because I'm a big fan of Patagonia and Chile. So this was my calling, right? We talked about my children are off to school now, and so I was free to make this happen. But I think what was interesting, just looking at it as a whole right now, and I'm only on week two, I'm here for three weeks, so I have some other projects I'll be working on once we leave here. But when we finished our pre-summit adventure, our cycling, our cycling experience, I thought there's no way it could get better than this. It's all going to be downhill from here because we really did laugh so hard. And for people listening who haven't seen the funny side of Dan fully, it is unmatched. The man is insanely talented at creating belly laughs. So they happened to galore. Um, but I I thought it couldn't get better, and it's gotten the it's just been amazing. Like Dan was with one of our nights here. So, you know, the PSA, sorry, the uh summit adventure of of uh gravel biking. Um, I can talk just quickly about a highlight. There were so many highlights there. I don't has anyone talked about experience?

SPEAKER_17: 1:13:32

No, no, we haven't, so we have to cover it. Please share a few highlights.

SPEAKER_09: 1:13:35

We some of us opted to get e-bikes because this was a fierce tier trail. Like I am a cyclist, but I was not really prepared to take on the gravel and the potholes. And to those who did in our group, like I think they've all been very humble. That was an insanely it could be a difficult ride. Um, the e-bikes changed it for us. But for them, imagine if we weren't, we would have lasted 20 miles, maybe, and we they they just kept doing it, they were amazing. But for those of us with e-bikes, and anyone who's ever used an e-bike, you have kind of five settings on the e-bike. You have your eco setting all the way up to power. And some of us, like Dan, opted to on the first day. It was quite funny because he was passing everybody and seemed to be living his best life. He was just waving and way far ahead of the pack. Well, before the day was out, it turned out Dan was cruising along in power mode and his e-bike motor died, and he was slugging that heavy bike uphill all on his own.

SPEAKER_18: 1:14:36

25 kilos. And I felt every one of them for those last five kilometers when our bus driver refused to come back because he was making lunch. Oh, Danny. Oh, Danny boy. Danny, that was that's gonna be that's gonna be in my uh my pre my post-trip review.

SPEAKER_09: 1:14:51

Uh that's gonna he had to keep the rest of us happy to like kind of you know weigh the pros and cons. But though that was the beginning of one day. That was just one, the first day. And the weather was in our fate. I mean, the the weather here in Patagonia is famously changing and and extreme. And we came here with unfortunate like rain and cold that was a little unexpected, but literally the gods were shining on us because every time we went out, it kept getting better. We drove in rain that was starting to turn to snow, and as soon as we opened the van doors, it literally became sunny. And our bike rides got better and better with each day. Like we had just such a great time together, and I feel that the chemistry of our group was weirdly magical. Um, and our guides, like, let's talk about Claudio and Fernando.

SPEAKER_16: 1:15:42

Oh, so amazing. Husband and wife couple. He's um she's leading the way, he's at the back. Well, I was leading most of the way, we have to be honest here.

SPEAKER_17: 1:15:50

While you had battery, and then Steve passed me, and then I was at the end because he was otherwise the uh the bumper car.

SPEAKER_18: 1:16:00

Yeah, there's sweeping. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09: 1:16:02

But Claudio and Fernando, I think, you know, from a travel perspective, their what makes them so special, and this is Cloostral, is that they their passion is evident every moment. And their attentiveness with us was every they they didn't stop. I mean, I'm looking at my hand, I burned my hand walking around. I I accidentally touched a chimney pipe, lucky me. And it was almost as if Claudia appeared out of nowhere with a full medical kit, and I barely have anything, a scar now today. Like from something like that to just being super mindful, I ate gluten-free, and everywhere we went, she was making sure that I had gluten-free served to me, like vigilantly. At the same time that she was having a great time with us and so such a joy to be around and has become our friend. So it felt very authentic, and their passion to deliver such a good trip and experience for us was super clear. So I was very impressed with them.

SPEAKER_16: 1:16:58

No, I couldn't agree more. I mean, Fernando was the reason that I finished that first day because he offered me his bike and he stayed with me the entire time, and I felt awful about it because I kept saying, just go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_08: 1:17:07

As you should.

SPEAKER_16: 1:17:09

As they should. My bike, I'm just kidding. No, it's totally my fault. Um, but uh yeah, so Fernando and then obviously Claudia, who's been with us here at the conference, and she's been out with us every night, and like this just you know, our whole group dynamic has been so uh that I just wanted to share one other story because you can um, you know, when I was leading the path, when I was like I I've kind of realized that I was almost like the uh when you go to the Greyhound races and there's the bunny that like all the greyhounds have to chase, I was kind of that bunny with me here, like just because the advanced cyclists what we found out from Claudia and Fernando is that our group was the fastest ever that's actually gone through that, like by far. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_18: 1:17:48

Like that, like our timing reached the legs, and I think that's because I think it's because I was everything. Because I was the bunny. I was the I was pacing everyone with with power. I was like the power setting, and all the other cyclists had to keep up with us. But there was this one day, so I'd always end up at like the um the first stop because it'd be like a midway stop.

SPEAKER_16: 1:18:06

And uh one day, I think it was day two, I ended up there and I was waiting for like half an hour, and you guys still hadn't turned up, and then eventually did, and you got and you guys said, Did you see the landslide?

SPEAKER_17: 1:18:16

I'm like, landslide? What and you saw the landslide happen in front of you in front of me after the storm, and then you guys were all joking it was because of the sonic boom of when I passed by that I just like yeah.

SPEAKER_16: 1:18:29

So that just gives one highlight of like just because that I I enjoyed it like um immensely as well.

SPEAKER_09: 1:18:35

But yeah, so but even off the road, too, like shout out to Senderos Patagonia where we stayed in the city. Totally.

SPEAKER_17: 1:18:40

Oh my god, those commodities.

SPEAKER_09: 1:18:42

Via Cerro Castillo, we stayed at a lovely place called Senderos Patagonia. Yeah, and the innkeeper, if we call her an innkeeper and her husband, so Mary, took us out for some wonderful cultural excursions. Like we went to an authentic quincho, we went and saw some, I don't want to call them cave, it's like hand paintings on an ancient rock wall with the man who found them years ago. I mean, what are the chances? Like, so we had a really unique opportunity. What I think is really great about that gravel bike ride is true slow travel. Like we got to settle into a small town and meet local people and hang out and experience some wild places like that.

SPEAKER_16: 1:19:22

Totally. Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. I mean, the people, like the for me, like the the landscape, the people, and then to bring it back to where we are now at ATTA, and we'll speak to Claudia in a moment and get um and and be able to show share more about Cicloostral with all of our listeners here on this podcast because I want, and I'm sure you feel the same way, many other people to be able to experience what we had um with Cycloostral, like I mean, because they're such a special operator in such a beautiful region of the world, but it certainly inspired me to take more cycling trips. Like, I'm like, I didn't think that this was my thing, and I'm like, I I loved it so much that I cannot wait to figure out what I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_09: 1:19:56

You like looking for a power e-bike tour. How do we one up this one? Is there it's gonna be some provider that has a next level of your number six, superpower.

SPEAKER_17: 1:20:06

One setting, go go big or go home.

SPEAKER_09: 1:20:09

That was our that was our thing.

SPEAKER_16: 1:20:11

Yeah, but uh uh when we were back here at ATTA, there was also this incredible band that you had a chance to experience as well.

SPEAKER_09: 1:20:17

That was an epic night.

SPEAKER_16: 1:20:18

That was a shared moment where it's just like that music and culture and all came together. All the Chileans were so excited, this band that you and I had not heard of, and there was about five or six of us up at the front, and uh Las Juevas, I believe. Las Jaivas, thank you. Las Jaivas. They were extraordinary, and that was like one of the biggest highlights for me as well was that night where we're like our whole crew is there and like this band is playing that is like the grateful dead in Chile.

SPEAKER_09: 1:20:45

That I think what was special about it is it seems like, you know, we're standing there with this iconic band for Chileans who are saying to us, This is the music of our childhood. And here's us who are not from here, way up in the front, taking a spot. I'm like thinking for a moment, ooh, we almost don't belong here. Like, we should give this space up to people who've been watching this band. We had no idea who they were. And yet every single person around us who was pumped, every Chileno that was in that crowd was like sharing something about. I mean, I met Rodrigo, I have no idea who his last name, what his last name is, but he was sharing with me this song is about looking through your daughter's eyes. And the young ladies next to me said, This is he just made a comment about how this music reflects the landscapes of the Andes and to share in that collective like Chilean vibe and be so welcomed into it was pretty amazing. So it was a another and let's not forget that that concert was put on in Torres Del Pine National Park.

SPEAKER_16: 1:21:45

Has that ever been done in the rain with a small, like intimate audience with the biggest band in Chile? Yeah, yeah. I asked Shannon about that on this uh event spotlight. How did that all come together? And even he said I wasn't quite sure how they managed to pull this off. But this was just how special an event like this is to come to a place like Chile and have the tourism board and everyone work so hard to create these pre-trip experiences and then also be able to create this epic event. So um I'm keen to make sure that that uh our listeners also know where to connect with you because obviously we're definitely keeping in touch because I feel like I'm like um you're my new uh travel friend, and I cannot wait for next year's ATTA summit, which gets announced in a moment. Our listeners already know because Shannon was kind enough to reveal, since I'm gonna post this after uh the event closes today. Um so I think you might have some idea, but uh we'll we'll save it for that announcement. But I couldn't be more excited to have you guys because like I'll I'm partly giving this away by the virtue of the fact that um it's gonna be in Canada, that's all I'm gonna say, and you can find out the rest and go check out the website. Um, but to have that group come from Chile to Canada where I'm based, and for us to ride again.

SPEAKER_09: 1:22:57

Yes, yeah, we're gonna do it. It would be and we have to make Claudia's dream come true because she's this is she does she deserves it. We need to make it exactly.

SPEAKER_16: 1:23:04

We need to give her and Fernando the hosting experience that they deserve and make them actually the guests this time.

SPEAKER_03: 1:23:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_16: 1:23:11

So um, no, but Nina, I so enjoy your company, and like I've just I've this conversation could go on for another hour. Maybe we need to start co-hosting some episodes together. I'm like, like, um but yeah, uh, I want to make sure that any of our listeners that want to collaborate with you in some way, please let all of our listeners know where best to find you.

SPEAKER_09: 1:23:28

The best place to find me is on Instagram. I'm at Nina Khan. So it's N-I-N-A-K-Han, H-A-H-N. And you can also find me on LinkedIn, same handle.

SPEAKER_16: 1:23:38

Cool. Thanks so much, Nina. It's been such a pleasure getting to know you over the course of the last week. And yeah, I look forward to keeping in touch. This is like, this is not a see you later.

SPEAKER_09: 1:23:46

This is like uh just the beginning. We still have the night.

SPEAKER_16: 1:23:48

Yeah. Oh, thanks again.

SPEAKER_09: 1:23:51

Thank you.

SPEAKER_16: 1:23:53

I now have the pleasure to speak to Kyla Yu, who is based in LA, and I had the chance to e-bike across a beautiful part of Patagonia with her over the last week. So we joined the PSA, the pre-summit adventure together. So it was a it was a delight to meet her, and we had so much fun together, that entire crew that week. And so I really wanted her to join the podcast because as I got to know uh Kyla over the course of the week, she's an author, she's a content creator, she's a writer, she does, she does, she writes uh travel articles, she's got that and she's got a book that she's just published. And anyway, I found more about her each day, and I want all of her listeners to know uh more about you, and I'll see what brought you to ATTA. So thanks for joining us on this episode of Travel Trans.

SPEAKER_04: 1:24:38

Yeah, thanks so much for having me.

SPEAKER_16: 1:24:40

For sure. Now, so I know I introduced you as an author there, but clearly you're so much more. Like you're an author, but you do so much. You're also, this is the other thing I learned about her. She's an extraordinary musician, like a vocalist, and you like led retired. Retired. But still, you had that you know incredible part of your life as well. So anyway, I I found your whole journey so fascinating. But yeah, tell us a little bit more about who you are and and how you ended up here at ATTA and on this PSA together.

SPEAKER_04: 1:25:07

Yeah, it's very random, right? But yeah, I kind of just discovered that people can get paid to travel on trips around the world, and I figured out how to do it. Good gig. But I was literally on a trip in the Maldives like a year ago, and three of the journalists were like, We just got back from the ATTA, and they were so excited about it, and I'd never even heard of it before. So I went and applied immediately after I got home, and then here we are.

SPEAKER_16: 1:25:32

That's amazing. But in terms of your background prior to ATTA, this is where like I'm like, this is what I say, you do so many things, and clearly um it's fantastic for you to be here because you've been sharing some of the stories and you obviously write travel articles. Um, but tell us a bit about your diverse background. You're Taiwanese American. That's one thing, other thing I got a chance to learn about you in the past week. Um and I'm intrigued about your book, and I've already told a few of my colleagues about it. Um, but so yeah, tell us a little bit more your about your background, your diverse background in in media.

SPEAKER_04: 1:26:01

Yeah, I mean, from the entertainment industry, yeah. It's very random. I think I started off in like the import car show scene, which is like normal people would know it as fast and furious, like those, you know, the racing thing, but it was very big in the Asian American community specifically. And then I dabbled in some acting and then in some music, and then eventually got to here.

SPEAKER_16: 1:26:25

That's incredible. And you're based in LA and you grew up in. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:26:29

I grew up in like the inland empire, and now I live in Hollywood, and I'm yeah, I love California. I love LA.

SPEAKER_16: 1:26:35

Yeah, you know, you're so LA because I was just like I was like I'm a quick attempt.

SPEAKER_04: 1:26:40

Like, what is this girl doing on this PSA? That's literally what everyone was thinking.

SPEAKER_16: 1:26:47

But clearly you love travel. So your love of travel came first. You love traveling, and then you decided to start writing about travel. How did you make that connection?

SPEAKER_04: 1:26:54

So I toured around in the band for a long time, and we got to go to all these exciting places, and I was stressed out the entire time and like lack of sleep, and you never really got to see the destination. So I really fell in love with that like touring aspect. But then afterwards, um, I just started a blog with like the content from the band, like a travel blog. And then eventually I met journalists and thought they were way more legit. So I decided to figure out how to be one.

SPEAKER_16: 1:27:24

So you went legit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:27:26

That's a blogging's dead now. Yeah. It was like not a thing.

SPEAKER_16: 1:27:30

Well, and also um, the book. I want to touch on that as well because I found the concept so fascinating. This was like after I met uh Kyla the next day, I was um we'd connected on Instagram, and then I was seeing all of your uh and I was like, but next day I'm like, oh my god, you're a you've written a book, and then the next day I'm like, oh my god, you're like a musician. I was like, each day there was like another major uh revelation. Um but tell everyone about the book you've just published.

SPEAKER_04: 1:27:52

Yeah, it came out in August, and it's called Fetishized Reckoning with Yellow Fever, Feminism and Beauty. And it's kind of just about how the American media fetishizes and oversexualizes Asian women. So I broke down like media that everyone's familiar with, like Memoirs of a Geisha and Hirozuku Girls and Fast and Furious, and how these movies perpetuated this idea.

SPEAKER_16: 1:28:14

Yeah, and I've seen the pickup has been like you got an article in the New York Times, a great review, and um, and obviously the number of people that it seems to be resonating with. I was seeing some of the clips of other Asian Americans or that um also were like connecting with their their culture and their history and also not uh having a much better understanding, the fact that you've shared this as a as a memoir on your story, and especially being like a beautiful lead singer of a band on stage, the experiences you had, um, and I haven't read the book yet, but I have some uh idea from our conversations about some of the things that you touch on, and uh clearly it's resonating with a lot of other Asian American women.

SPEAKER_04: 1:28:50

Well, it's just crazy because all everyone, every Asian woman in America knows about the Asian fetish, but there's never been like a first-person book on it, which is crazy. But I think it's because nobody really wants to speak out like that much about it. But yeah, I'm just the one who's like embarrassing my family, I guess. My poor family.

SPEAKER_16: 1:29:13

Well, I'm sure ultimately they will see the benefit as they realize just how many people um connect with your story and what you're sharing. So I'm really excited to see where that where that goes for you. But yeah, let's uh I guess talk about our PSA and I want to talk about the event here as well. And so, how did you end up deciding? Because it was so funny, we ended up realizing that uh our motivations for taking the trip were quite similar. Like, how do we both end up here? But um tell all of our listeners how you ended up on the PSA and deciding to do the cycling trip because that's not something you've done before. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:29:41

Well, the thing is, I don't like hiking. But I like riding a bike. And I was like, how hard could it possibly be to ride a bike? And I I'm researching an article for this and looking at the trends, and people like cyclists call it a treacherous road. So it's like considered hard even by seasoned. Cyclists, but mind you, they're going on like mountain bikes without e-bikes. It helps tremendously. But I'm like a girl with like eyelash extensions and hair extensions. Like I told the girls this because you guys can't relate, but when I was going down the hill, the eyelashes are like going into my eyes. I was like, this is a hazard. But it was like there were a couple of days of just like breathtaking beauty scenery like endless. Like it was incredible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_16: 1:30:32

Well, Kyla knows I was joking that I was the only man in uh the person man enough to ride an e-bike and that we were like the e-bike club together. There was um there was uh three women and myself, and the four of us were like e-bike unite. We rode together, we set the pace for the uh for the group because we forced everyone else to try and keep up to our our pace. But you came at it with similar motivations to me, which is that I was intrigued to see the natural beauty from a bike. I'm not a cyclist. The e-bike obviously made uh all the difference for both of us. I could not have done it without no, there's no way. Yeah, and Louisa on our discovered that after the first day, right?

SPEAKER_04: 1:31:06

Yeah, there was a woman and I spoke to her while we were sitting there. She's like, I just got a mountain bike, and I was like, And yeah, she went up that first hill and she was like, forget it.

SPEAKER_18: 1:31:14

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she was from Germany. She was uh uh lovely as well, but yeah, she clearly made the right decision to switch up to the e-bike and then have.

SPEAKER_16: 1:31:23

That's exactly it. Um but tell about a few highlights from from that trip. The one thing I was just gonna say too on this topic is that I found it so invigorating, just the fresh air in that scenery to and to be on a bike that I don't wouldn't have had that experience. I wouldn't have had hiking, or you know, you could see some of the views from a car, but it wouldn't it'd be totally different without the wind going through your hair and like and and being out on a bike all day and stopping and having lunch outside and having like you know a hot tea or coffee. And it's there's something about the physical activity and just the joy. Like at the end of the day, I felt so good. Like that was just Yeah, that I've accomplished something. Yeah, we did accomplish something. We did it. We've never done it before. No, totally, yeah. So I'd love to hear our, and I'm sure our audience too, uh, a couple of highlights from you because they're hearing it from me. But that's one of one of the uh several reasons I wanted to have you on this because I'm I think that it's an opportunity for more people to discover cycling trips because we're not the prototypical I will go on another one for sure.

SPEAKER_04: 1:32:15

And mind you, any trip we go on after this is gonna be so easy. Yeah. This is a hard one. But um, I think like the first day was so hard because because of the weather, we had to switch up the schedule and we had the hardest day first, and it was pretty much an uphill climb the whole way, and also wind like that knocked me into a fence at some point. But like the first day I was so terrified going down the steep hill, but by the end I was like coasting down, like like even cycling faster. So I thought that was a highlight, like just like getting braver throughout.

SPEAKER_18: 1:32:51

For sure.

SPEAKER_04: 1:32:52

Yeah, and also food tastes better in in the open air, right? Definitely when it's being cooked for you for meals.

SPEAKER_16: 1:33:00

Remind me, were you uh the the brief landslide that occurred to highlight your point of yeah um was that ahead of you or behind you when that happened?

SPEAKER_04: 1:33:07

I was behind, yeah.

SPEAKER_17: 1:33:09

It was you came up to it.

SPEAKER_04: 1:33:10

Yes, it was uh Louisa and Nina at the front who saw it happened yes.

SPEAKER_16: 1:33:15

And it was uh there had to be the same uh major storm. We had one day where we couldn't ride, uh, which was perfect for me because it was like after the first day and I kind of needed a reset day. And we both like we were staying in the same pl um lodging, and so each of us got uh like to have a um a down day, and then the next you know, we were back at it. But that um I know a few people had commented that maybe it was the sonic boom from me passing so fast at the beginning that I that I caused a landslide behind me.

SPEAKER_04: 1:33:44

And another highlight was all the friendly animals, yeah. And like so many stray dogs, but they were well fed.

SPEAKER_16: 1:33:51

Yeah, they were healthy and like yeah, there was no um and we didn't see any pumas, at least at least not like uh we saw warning signs that we could get tackled by a puma on a big thing. And the condors flying overhead, too. That was okay.

SPEAKER_04: 1:34:06

But the condor's a really every time they're like a condor, I saw like a speck in the distance. I was like, cool.

SPEAKER_16: 1:34:13

It's gonna carry you off your bike. And obviously, the two the couple that led the company, uh Fernando and Claudia just like just so passionate and so caring. Absolutely. That made all the difference for me. Like the fact that they reassured me to take the trip in the first place, and that first day is you know when my e-bike battery decided to give up, and Fernando never gave up on me and made sure that I finished that first leg, and it made all the difference. I felt I like I really accomplished something and I really pushed myself that day because yes, it is hard to ride five kilometers with a bike that weighs 25 kilograms, mainly uphill. Um, but somehow I managed to get there, and that set the tone for me, and it definitely made the difference that he stayed with me and that he offered me his bike, which I didn't uh didn't take, but um but then here we are at ATTA. So we have this incredible PSA together that with a group that we'll obviously clearly stay in touch with, and with one of you know many tour operators here that have put a lot of time and effort into making sure that everyone that comes to ATTA had this special experience. And um, but now we're here at the conference and we're like on day two, I guess, of the official conference. Uh love to hear some of your observations so far and kind of what stood out to you about your very first ATTA conference or ATWS World Summit.

SPEAKER_04: 1:35:29

I didn't realize it was so big. I thought it was like maybe like two, three hundred people, but I'm hearing it's 700. So just the organization of everything. And I think the highlight is that everyone's really friendly and they're trying to meet you and they're being welcoming. Because you could go to some other conferences where it's a little bit snobbier, but that's not the vibe here at all.

SPEAKER_16: 1:35:50

No, exactly. Yeah, and I know you've been attending a number of the sessions. Has there been any interesting ones that stood out to you? The speakers or the content that's been particularly interesting for you?

SPEAKER_04: 1:35:58

Yeah, I mean, definitely Nina's, obviously, because it was like content creation and I do content creation, but it was easy. It was interesting to see the different takes because they had like a journalist and then like a content creator, and they were debating. So it got a little bit spicy at one point. Were you there?

SPEAKER_16: 1:36:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 1:36:14

I oh you were there for a little bit of an argument. Yeah. I love how good.

SPEAKER_16: 1:36:18

Well, those stages of debate, so I mean yeah, they they lived up to the expectations. Um, and then over the course, I guess we have one more day tomorrow. Um, there's activities throughout the evening. Uh is there many other surprises that have uh clearly the community that comes together is so unique and special about ATTA, at least from my perspective. Um, what else has stood out to you with your first ATTA?

SPEAKER_04: 1:36:39

Well, I think I just expected to meet a bunch of South American operators, which I definitely wanted to meet with too, but there's been so many operators from all around the world. So it's been great just like meeting all kinds of people from different places.

SPEAKER_16: 1:36:53

Yeah, that's fantastic. I they they uh I can't believe the number of international guests in addition to like all the South Americans that are here.

SPEAKER_03: 1:37:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_16: 1:37:00

And um uh people are gonna find out where it is next year. People on our podcast will have just found out from Shannon. But I can't say anything to you, but I do know. I do know. I'm now sitting across from Kyla who I'm excited about. Yeah, very excited about. Yeah, no, it's gonna be it's gonna be amazing. So I can't say anymore, but uh our listeners now know you're gonna find out tomorrow.

SPEAKER_04: 1:37:19

Um, but they're gonna make a big announcement.

SPEAKER_16: 1:37:21

Yeah, they make a big announcement, yeah. Um, but are you gonna come back? I guess that's big.

SPEAKER_04: 1:37:26

Yes, oh, the other part is how many returneys there are. For sure. That's like a surprise, and I will definitely be back if they'll have me back.

SPEAKER_16: 1:37:33

Oh, that's awesome. I'm sure they will. I know you're gonna write about this. Like uh, so I want to make sure that all of our listeners can find out more information about you, whether it be on your social channels or you know, being able to order the book. And again, just so you have got so much to offer, where would be the best places for people to connect with you after hearing our conversation?

SPEAKER_04: 1:37:50

Yeah, my name's Kyla Yu, and it's spelled K-A-I-L-A, and that's my name on my website, my social media, and everything.

SPEAKER_16: 1:37:57

Cool. And that's the best place to connect with you, obviously, Instagram. Like that's where I've seen some of your uh posts from the trip and everything else you've got going on. But no, it's been a real pleasure to meet you. It's been so much fun riding together for the last week.

SPEAKER_04: 1:38:10

Like a great, amazing group.

SPEAKER_16: 1:38:12

Yeah, I feel like we're old friends now. Like that that that WhatsApp chat is gonna carry on long after this trip.

SPEAKER_04: 1:38:17

I think we warriored through that.

SPEAKER_16: 1:38:19

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we're gonna we have our battle scars from that experience. But no, it's been from certainly for me, this conference, one of the highlights was getting a chance to meet you and be a part of that group. Yes, I do. No, no, I didn't I wasn't fishing for a compliment. Don't think that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:38:35

I was actually I was I it was legitimately like I've been on a lot of a lot of press trips, and that was an amazing group.

SPEAKER_16: 1:38:42

Totally, yeah, exactly. That's like I've done a lot of traveling, and you rarely get a group dynamic that is that um strong and fun. Like it's just you he had a little bit of everybody and they just really um fuse together as a as a as a group so well. So yeah, we had all of our evenings, there were so many big laughs, and it was like it was you know, it's this whole idea of transformative travel. This is what we and that's certainly what I needed. I definitely, you know, having our kids just go off to university. I was really looking forward to this trip as uh an opportunity to kind of get out and and be distracted and just be able to have something else to focus on. And I had that cycling and then meeting new people and seeing this destination. So uh I'm glad it was obviously uh uh similar for you. But yeah, thank you so much for making the time for this, and I look forward to keeping in touch and seeing you at the next ATTA.

SPEAKER_04: 1:39:26

Yeah, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_16: 1:39:29

I'm now excited to sit down with a great friend of mine, someone that I've known in the industry for many years. He worked at G Adventures, he also worked at Tour Radar, and he gave an absolutely incredible opening keynote today on the final day of the ATTA conference. And I was so excited to have this time together to bring him onto the podcast to share the highlights from his session. Many people know my friend Azaz, he's based in Toronto, he's got a lovely British accent, as you'll hear, and he's a huge football fan, proper football, not soccer. And uh and I say proper football is in uh Premier League, and he's a massive Liverpool fan.

SPEAKER_14: 1:40:09

Correct, yeah.

SPEAKER_16: 1:40:10

And uh and he was even rocking, he always has the coolest uh football jerseys. But yes, Azaz, welcome back to Travel Trends. Thanks so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_14: 1:40:18

Thank you, mate. Um, I appreciate the intro. Lovely as always, and um delighted to finally be on the show.

SPEAKER_16: 1:40:24

It's yeah, buddy.

SPEAKER_14: 1:40:25

Um it's been cool. We've worked in a few different capacities, so it's good to be on the show, and thank you for the wonderful intro.

SPEAKER_16: 1:40:31

Yeah, well, and I just want to add to that, like I'm gonna say one more thing, and this is where you know, good people know good people in this industry, and it's one of the things that uh even on my journey, uh Azaz has uh helped me as I was working on different projects, and I reached out to him because he was into football and I didn't understand that. I was working with Dharma and a project, and he was there for me. He was like, we had coffees, we still actually need to go out and have dinner together. Um, at his time, it's tour radar. He was a big uh supporter of travel trends and the AI Summit. Like it's just like, and again, like we have many close friends in common, and I think that's just like a testament to the people in the industry that are just there for each other and realize that we go from companies to company, like we're in like our but over the arc of our career, we always remember the people that were there for us on our journey. And you've been there for me, and I absolutely will continue to be there for you, man. So know that. But let's let's talk about what brings you here because that's the coolest thing that you're literally giving a keynote on stage at ATTA. So tell everybody what your keynote was about today.

SPEAKER_14: 1:41:31

Uh, interestingly enough, um, the keynote is something that's very close to my heart and and things that I have worked on this year with Tor Radar as well. So big shout out to them. Um, love my time there, and love, big love to the team as well. Um, mate, the truth is um as travel marketing starts to unfold, uh, we just have to be super with it, to be honest with you. I think travel marketers have got this um gift and a curse where we have the most amazing assets in the world, everyone loves our product. If you think about it, people are actually not just giving up big money, but they're also giving their most valuable asset per year, which is their time off to go and travel. And that's amazing. That there's so many good elements to that, but every now and again I do notice that there are curves in the industry where there is the potential to um for us to get left behind a little bit with where the latest trends are going with um marketing for sure, but certainly social media marketing as well. Um, so a lot of my um keynote today was about how uh we need to ride the current wave of marketing and in 2025 going into 2026, that's not basing a strategy on AI, that's catching up and rooting it very contextually in social media, or as what many experts like Gary Vaynerchuk are calling now, interest media.

SPEAKER_16: 1:43:01

Well, I the the crowd erupted at the end uh of Azaz's presentation today, and I did post a few clips on uh Instagram as well for those people who want to check it out. But I and and hopefully I know it was recorded so other people can see it on the uh and I'll I'll find out for sure uh on put it into this episode so that other people can watch your keynote because it was a full hour long and it was so packed with content, and it was clearly you had the room wrapped, and then at the end it was just like there was like you know, you're getting cat calls, and like it was just like people were hooting and hollering, and that's a great sign. And those weren't just your friends, those were people, those are new fans, right? It's just like so um that must have felt pretty cool, right?

SPEAKER_14: 1:43:42

Yeah, yeah. It was um a lot of hard work went into it, and you know, when you're at a conference, you kind of want to go first, uh, you want to get it out of the way and then enjoy the conference. But obviously, I got an amazing slot to open up the last day, um, which was obviously a big privilege and an honor. Uh, but yeah, it was always on the back of my mind. So I was working away. So yeah, to get the applause at the end, especially was very gratifying. So, you know, the travel industry, we're all such um gracious folks and love to support each other. So yeah, it was super cool to get that.

SPEAKER_16: 1:44:14

Well, let's walk through a few of the get the big takeaways from your session. And I'm looking at some of the uh the photos I took from the slides because I hadn't seen your presentation yet. And as you mentioned, like you put so much time and effort into this, and I'd love to be able to share it with our listeners if that's okay with you as well, because I'm sure after this people will be very interested to understand you mean you're such an expert in this space, and you've led community um for a number of travel organizations, and there's very few people that get what it takes to build community, and even the example with the work that you do um with the Liverpool Football Club, that's a pure example of community. And one of the things you and I have connected on in the past was the idea that you know when you wear your football jersey, you know, you're you know, you're appealing to your tribe, and all of a sudden other people come up to you on your travels to tell you that you love that. But you don't just do it at Liverpool, you like you're at the World Cup and you're wearing all these different jerseys, and you have actually let's just mention that you have the most incredible collection of football jerseys. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_14: 1:45:14

So how many do you have now? Uh the last time I counted, I was I I've gone past 700. There are they're not all at home. Um, some are obviously in storage. You know how small Toronto condos can be. Uh, but yeah, I I have several hundred. Uh yeah, so from England, it's always Liverpool. I do have to say that. The only English team I will support and rock the jersey off is Liverpool Football Club, my my religion in a way. Uh, but yeah, I have to say, nothing for me opens doors more on my travels than the football shirts I wear. You know, we were just talking about the fact that I I don't drink, so that's one of the things that people are always able to bond over, and and that's not something that's part of my life, but something that is part of my life is is the football, is the soccer jerseys. It is the biggest sport in the world for a reason. And what's super cool is uh just this trip in Santiago, I actually wore two old vintage jerseys. One of them, which I actually wore today, um, which I'll touch on in a second, uh, is one of the most popular jerseys in Chile's football history, which is the first time or one of the biggest times they qualified for the World Cup, which was World Cup 1998. So that shirt in Santiago in particular got so much attention, and to the point where my broken Spanish couldn't even handle it.

SPEAKER_16: 1:46:41

Tell everyone, because if they look at the photos, they can see that jersey, and I said you afterwards. I'm like, no way, where did you get that from? So just explain that Chilean football jersey you're wearing today.

SPEAKER_14: 1:46:49

Yeah, I've all I've just always been a collector, so it's a huge thing now in this wave of collectibles. Definitely has come out of COVID for sure. I think people were at home and um a lot of people just started collecting everything, like trading cards and all sorts of vintage stuff. I'm actually a lifelong collector, so funny story. Um, I was I bought my first, I got my first football shirt for my seventh birthday present. But what was really funny was I chose to be a Liverpool fan. My dad, who emigrated from Pakistan, was a staunch Manchester United fan, and they are rival clubs. But I wanted a Liverpool shirt and aged six, turning seven, I said to my dad, I want a Liverpool shirt, and he's like, Absolutely not. I am not buying you a Liverpool shirt. And my mom was like, uh, if you don't, I will, kind of thing. He wants what he wants. And to be to be honest, I never stopped collecting after that, so it's a long-term passion. Um, I probably don't buy as many as I used to now because the prices have gone ridiculous coming out of COVID. So I've had that chili jersey for a very long time, and um, yeah, I have to say it's um what you call in in this sub-genre of collecting, it's what you call a grail, which means it's very hard to get hold of. And um, yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't part with that one.

SPEAKER_16: 1:48:09

Yeah, I can understand why. So that's so let's go back to your presentation because I'm really keen for our listeners to be able to understand before they get access to it, look the video. Um, I don't want to leave them wanting. So I want uh to highlight so the big takeaways. So I was starting to look at um my um my takeaways from your presentation, and you know, one of the things you talked about was riding the culture wave and and highlighting how to adapt to these trends, but that was one of uh several takeaways. So let's start at the beginning. Yeah, like what you wanted and and and just quickly walk through what the big takeaways were.

SPEAKER_14: 1:48:40

Absolutely. So what I wanted to give the audience was five key takeaways to shape their marketing for 2026, and they can start it in 2025. I wanted to be really specific and say, I am not talking about predicting the future. Um, this isn't about AI at scale, it's certainly not what's your metaverse strategy. This was certainly in 2026, what can you work on? So two of them were strategic takeaways, and then three of them were tactical. Obviously, the tactical ones can point to the strategy, but at the same time, they are somewhat standalone too. So the two strategic ones, number one, embrace the rise of interest media. This time last year, this was called the TikTokification of social media, but it has its own um platform agnostic name at this point, and it's embraced the rise of interest media. So, interest media is what marketers are calling this latest incarnation of social media, which it's the same thing, it's the same platforms. However, since TikTok came with their funky, super cool, targeted algorithm, and everyone followed suit, you no longer need to be following a brand, a creator, an account to actually be served their content, and it's completely changed the game because now those platforms that are vying for your attention, they're battling for your attention, they are serving content to you based on what you are interested in, and it's a huge opportunity. Number two, storytelling in the algorithm era. So everyone talks about AI this and AI that, and of course, AI is amazing, and um, I've had the pleasure of using it myself, but also seeing some amazing talented people this year using it firsthand. Um, but the biggest algorithms that marketers need to be aware of right this minute, um, as well as the ones that we're all using to be more efficient, are is the AI that is in the algorithms of these big platforms. So, what Meta through Facebook and Instagram, Google on YouTube, and uh Snapchat and even TikTok, LinkedIn, all of these um big platforms are doing, is they are using AI to serve you this content. So, what that means is my second big strategic takeaway was storytelling in the algorithm era, meaning you have to know how to tell your story, usually um including a snippet in the first three seconds on how to tell that story in the algorithm era, because if you don't, um you'll be invisible, and that's the gift and the curse of this new wave of social media. The interest media is not only does it open you up to all people that aren't following you, but it's pretty cutthroat and you have to know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_16: 1:51:32

Yeah, okay, so that's two.

SPEAKER_14: 1:51:33

Um bring us on to number three. Okay, so the three others were um tactical. So the first one was how to collaborate with creators, um, and I put in brackets smartly because I love creators, I think that they are so um fundamental to spreading the word of every industry, actually. Of course, travel, but there's some amazing creators in fashion, in sports, in um in all different facets. So, in travel in particular, um, everybody who's working with creators thinks the only way that they can work with creators is by sending them on these trips. And when we're talking to particularly smaller operators here who just don't have the budget to bring creators over, host them, especially when you're talking about flights in there too, um, they don't know how to work with creators. So there is a whole um method to the madness of working with creators, including by all means starting small. You know, um what I shared in the keynote was there's definitely examples where people using the simple green screen strategy, which is they're sat at home, they're sat in a studio, they're sat in a coffee shop, and they actually use the features within TikTok or or Instagram reels to actually have a have a piece of content behind them, and they just pop up in the bottom corner or or somewhere on the screen. That is is it's possible for that to get just as much virality and exposure as someone's content where they've been flown halfway across the world at a cost of five, six thousand pounds or dollars. So um there's and that's just one of the tools. There's multiple ways on how you can collaborate with creators, and it's fundamental to getting your message out there because they are the masters with connecting to their audience. Number four was amplify what works. So I've all already mentioned a couple of times today that there are um these really powerful algorithms and um using AI at play, they're making sure that you are being served the exact content that's gonna make you stay on the platform. And amplifying what works means you should first be posting on organic social, you should be seeing what works, and only then you should be amplifying that for performance marketing. Now, you don't just post the same thing. This isn't using the boost feature, by the way, and um, it is it is pure pay digital. And I'm not saying that I'm definitely not saying that you should just post the same content and put money behind it, absolutely not. You should post produce um maybe the first three seconds are different, maybe there's a call to action, um, hovering above, maybe the copy's different, but what that piece of content that has gone viral or or somewhat rel virality is relative, but that that piece of content that has performed well, what that has been proven to be is that that is a hit with your audience. So why wouldn't that be the basis of your paid campaign versus something that's completely made in a vacuum where there are people who have just decided that this is gonna be your ad. So amplify what works, organic social media is the best proof of concept out there, and then you basically pour gasoline on that. The fifth one, um, which is uh super interesting in the travel industry because as soon as you say tap into trends and pop culture, everyone thinks you're talking about White Lotus, um which which obviously is a huge hit show. I love that show, however, um there's so much more to it. So um I I think that being able to jump into trends, into pop culture, really knowing what's happening in the world is one, if not the biggest, way to actually be seen and visible on these platforms. I joked on stage and said everybody saw that Coldplay video from this summer, but that's just one example of many, many examples this year where the internet just shuts down for a couple of days and the only thing that's being served is a certain piece of content. Because right now, as much as it is an opportunity, you are actually also going up against all the other travel brands or all the other brands in um any industry, but you're also competing for attention with cat videos. You don't want to be competing with cat videos without a strategy, you're also competing with whatever Taylor Swift wants to say. Um, all of these things are part of the same ecosystem. So tapping into trends and tapping into pop culture is a huge way to hack the system because it shows that you are um focused on really being present in where everyone's hanging out.

SPEAKER_16: 1:56:25

It's amazing, man. You did it, you did it. Those are the big five, but we'll make sure that we share the presentation, uh, the slides, and the uh video if we can get access to it as well. And so, you know, you absolutely killed it today on stage. And uh, you know, as we sit here at the end of the conference, uh, I know you have not only been practicing and rehearsing, we uh rode together in a taxi back to the same hotel yesterday, and I was heading up to the Women in Travel Leaders event. You were going back to get ready, and obviously it all paid off today, so it was well worth it. But I know you were making your way around some of the other sessions to get a kind of a whole feel of it. You kindly popped into uh to my panel yesterday. But tell us, uh Azaz, what some of the other highlights and takeaways have been for you being here at ATTA in Chile this year, and also being a keynote speaker, because that comes with uh you know a high degree of responsibility. And so um tell us a little bit about your experience and what are some of the other highlights from being here this year.

SPEAKER_14: 1:57:21

I think the big highlight for me is I've never been to uh ATWS, which is the Adventure Travel World Summit put on by ATT every every year. Um, it has to be one of the most wholesome conferences in the world. I have to say that just the connection and the community amongst everyone else is truly outstanding. And I feel that um if you are one of us, like you said earlier on in the podcast, if you're a travel person, you truly get it as to how special it is to be here with um all the other people. Some of the highlights, the rest of the highlights for me, from a content perspective, yeah, I definitely loved your session. I'm always a big I'm a huge Dan Christian fan. I think everyone, everyone knows that, and I will help and support you in any capacity. You mentioned a couple other things before, but they were all honestly a privilege and an honor to be part of. So um if if someone's asking me, well, I'm never gonna say my own thing, but if someone's asking me what was your standout session, then I'm always gonna go Dan. I'm a I'm a Dan Christian guy. Um, and then you know just like Liverpool, man. You're loyal.

SPEAKER_18: 1:58:30

Exactly.

SPEAKER_14: 1:58:31

I am very loyal. And then um, yeah, I think that um the other there were other sessions like workshop sessions. I I was in one around AI, um, which was put on by Jason Records. It was super cool because you got to see the full gamut of where people think AI 101 is, and AI 101 is all over the place. And I do think that this was probably the same thing in the mid-90s when the actual internet was coming along. People didn't really know what 101 was. But when we were getting a read of the room, some people thought 101 was literally writing your first ever prompt, and other people thought 101 was actually um putting Zapia together with a bunch of three different LLMs and coming out with one re result. Like literally, someone thought that was 101. So that was super eye-opening. The other thing I have to say is like all really good adventure conferences, travel conferences, we don't just work hard, we play so hard. Um, so yeah, yesterday I wasn't able to get out there and um I was focused on my practice, but the day before, which was Tuesday, everybody was out for what they call a DOA a day, and I was not a dead on arrival, although I've got a story there. It's a day of adventure. So Tuesday was a day of adventure, which is a break in the conference where you pick one of um dozens of different adventures. So I actually picked DOA 1, which was Puma Trekking, and I was 80 meters away from a Puma. And yeah, I feel like nothing will be a better highlight for me from that perspective. Because yeah, you look at these Apex Predators in the wild. I can say I've never been yet on a safari in Africa. I haven't been near a safari tiger safari in India. And here I was, um, literally 80 meters away from the apex predator around here. And um I don't think anything will be as life-changing as that for me.

SPEAKER_16: 2:00:39

Oh, that's incredible. I'm glad you mentioned the day of adventure and that highlight. I saw so many different experiences to select from. It was so difficult to choose what you do because you want to do like all 20 of them. Um, but that I see being here in Chile, having that experience, there's no other conference that does that. Like there were the pre-trip, um, the day of adventure, and it makes all the difference. Like it's a in you. So I'm glad you mentioned that it was in the highlights because that for sure was the highlight for me was the pre-trip. And for people that love adventure travel, you actually get to walk the walk. And it's exactly what you do with your approach to this industry and your presentation, is that you walk the walk. So when you share those five takeaways, it's because you've lived it, you've experienced it, and you've had such a great uh deal of success being able to utilize those exactly those skills in those previous roles. So I want to make sure as we uh finish off here, as I was, I know we're on the cusp of 2026, and I want to make sure that people can reach out to you and connect with you because you are such a great thought leader in this industry, and you have so much to offer, and I can't wait to see what you do next because you've got such a bright future. Um, tell everyone where people can connect with you, and I just want to give you uh the last word today, man.

SPEAKER_14: 2:01:52

Okay, so um the the best way to connect with me in a professional setting is is LinkedIn. So A-I-Z-A-Z, uh, not Aziz. Um it is Azaz, and yeah, I'm Azaz Sheikh, S-H-E-I-K-H. So find me on LinkedIn. I would love to speak to you about all things marketing, travel, culture, um, and of course football or soccer. Um, so yeah, what's what's next for me is um I'm I'm looking forward to to seeing where this industry goes. I feel like once you get a bite of this travel industry, you kind of always want to be around. And um, I think that I'm really excited for 2026 because so much is changing, and I think that finally there's some really good work being done on everything I spoke about today, and I'd love to be around that. Um, one thing I do have to say really quickly is a huge shout out to Shannon Stowell, uh CEO of ATTA. Um, you know, we're sitting here today at the conference, and it wouldn't be possible without his personal invite for me to come and speak here today. So um I have a lot of love and respect for him. I literally called him the nicest person in adventure travel. Um, so present company excluded. So um I have to give a huge shout out to him.

SPEAKER_16: 2:03:08

He's amazing, he's the real deal. He's been on this uh podcast uh event spotlight as well. So people have heard from Shannon. But yeah, you're absolutely spot on. He's like he's the reason we're all here.

SPEAKER_14: 2:03:17

Yeah, exactly. And um, other than that, um to be honest, I think that um the future's bright, and I'm I'm excited to keep sharing my thoughts and my leadership. Um as well as being passionate about marketing, I'm very, very passionate about leadership, servant leadership, and um continue, I want to continue to make the impact that I am on not just the industry, but also the people I get to work with, because yeah, nothing fills me with more joy than that. Amazing.

SPEAKER_16: 2:03:47

Well, thank you for your friendship, continued support, collaboration. And we started this podcast with Christine Tompkins and her executive director, Carolina, as well. But what I talked with Chris about is the future, and we picked up right from the fact that you know she was the CEO of Patagonia and she stepped away from that. Who would ever consider doing that for the opportunity of a lifetime? And her second act has been that much more meaningful than her first. And I know exactly that's going to be the same for you. So I wish you continued success, my friend, and I look forward to seeing you back in Toronto and uh go Blue Jays Go. Go Blue Jays Go. I now have the privilege to sit down to and speak to two incredibly inspiring co-founders of a company called Godwana that's based in Brazil, and it's Camilla and Daniela, and Camilla and I spent uh time yet together yesterday on stage with a really inspiring session, and you were such an incredible part of that conversation. We've had a chance to meet on a few calls, and so I was delighted that we have the opportunity to record here together. So, first of all, Camilla, welcome. Thanks for being on Travel Trends.

SPEAKER_00: 2:04:50

Thank you very much, then.

SPEAKER_16: 2:04:52

And Daniela, welcome, and nice to meet you here as well.

SPEAKER_00: 2:04:55

Yes, nice to meet you too. I'm very happy.

SPEAKER_16: 2:04:57

Awesome. No, I'm thrilled. And I know for you guys it's like a first podcast, and I want to make this really meaningful and special because you have such an incredible story to tell. You know, this women-led business, you know, 25 employees, you are totally self-funded, and uh getting to know more and more about your business and then seeing you on stage yesterday and the audience reaction, your story resonates with so many people here at ATTA. And that's one of the things I wanted to mention, as you know, when we were speaking on stage, that your business is much closer to where people are in the industry today and what they're aspiring to. So maybe Camilla, let's let's uh start with you to just give a bit of overview of Godwana and the company that the two of you have built.

SPEAKER_00: 2:05:38

Oh, yeah, thanks then. Yeah, it was amazing to be on the stage um and with two other amazing people, Gonzalo and Jenny. Uh and yeah, the foundation of Gondwana was in 2001, so it's 24 years ago. And of course, we have been through a lot of changes and transformations within this all these years. Uh, but definitely, so the idea was to start Gondwana um to share with the world this amazing place where we live. We live in Curitiba, is uh it is a city located in the south of Brazil, and it has the most preserved area of Atlantic rainforest in Brazil, so the last reminiscent is pretty much less than 7% that is left of from the Atlantic rainforest. So the idea was to um as as we have been through a lot of transformations uh with traveling, so we believe that um traveling is a such a powerful tool for transformation. So we have decided that that we wanted to share that with the world. So uh the I the mission of Gondwana started with in this idea of of sharing uh um the powerful uh tool um that tourism can be of transformation. So um, and then we have decided to start uh creating itineraries in that area. We were very romantic back then, so we were creating like a 10-day itinerary that would stay in the same area um and visiting local communities, experiencing uh um uh things in the nature and activities, um, but then of course uh we never saw them because they were too romantic. So it was an amazing start because it also taught us that uh we also could understand, we should understand better uh the market, and then we could we should build itineraries that would also resonate with what people would love to live. Uh so um within the next years we decided to expand a little bit the areas that we were working in and then connecting this place, which is amazing and unique, um, with other important areas of Brazil. Uh, but but actually, then it was very important to mention that we were the first um company in in Brazil that has taken this place um to the world. So in the end, we were very successful to put this place on the map of many, many, many international tour operators. Uh, and indeed it is still a very special place. But then Gondwana has been through a lot of transformation. So is it still our homeland? Is it still one of the uh our let's say preferred areas uh to be at? That's where we live, that's where we still inspire everyone that works in Gondwana as our um as the area where we started the operation. But uh commercially speaking, we we are now present in 22 states of Brazil. Wow. And Brazil, yeah, has 27. So I mean uh uh we have been doing much, much more uh back then, but uh but the core of the business and the and the and this the idea is still there, uh uh right deep in our hearts and souls.

SPEAKER_16: 2:08:39

That's incredible. And obviously, we're here in Chile. Brazil is very close, and uh, you know, of Argentina, Brazil. I feel like there's such a strong connection with South Americans and you know, seeing you guys at the sessions, and clearly, obviously, Gonzalo, who you mentioned, uh, he's based here in Chile. And so there seems to be a real uh cultural connection amongst people from South America and also a real desire around sustainability given how beautiful this part of the world is. And I have not been to uh where you're based, but I know Gabby Stoll, who's been on this podcast as well, and she was telling me about the south of Brazil and the island that she lives on and how beautiful it is and how much she wants to spend more time there. And uh I can't wait to visit one day. But um, Daniela, obviously, this is uh a huge passion for you. And this is tell us a little bit more about your role in the business and also a little bit more about that region because I think people are gonna be looking it up on the map right now to figure out where it is and then start looking at pictures and going, like, oh my god, it's so beautiful. Uh but yeah, tell us a little bit more about your background, uh having either grown up there or being from that region.

SPEAKER_06: 2:09:46

Okay, thank you then. Um actually talking about Gundwanda Brazil is also talking about the Atlantic Rainforest, because as Camila said, is that is the place where we were uh born and we were uh we were uh actually inspired to be doing what we're doing today. Yeah. So uh if I if I go back in the years, I can remember that I was a very um idealistic person, really get in contact with nature for the first time. So the mountains over there are really pretty, and the green mountains, the coastal mountain range, and you cross that from the 900 meters high to the eight meters high. So we really get to the mountains. And uh the Atlantic rainforest is not as known as the Amazon forest. So I think this is one of the challenges for me and Camila because we want to put this on the map.

SPEAKER_03: 2:10:32

Sure.

SPEAKER_06: 2:10:33

And we always uh really uh that has this big, big uh uh challenge because the Amazon is so well known and that there's really this importance, but the Atlantic rainforest also is very, very important, it's very beautiful. I mean, the there's so many more species, like uh diversity in the square meter than the Amazon, actually. So the diversity of forests, the diversity of but the biodiversity is really, really important for all the ecosystem in Brazil, you know. And uh we know that uh it's a little bit harder to be promoted as the Amazon, but this is our purpose at the moment, so we really want to do that. But it's really nice that we we, as Camilla said, we could put this in the map for groups for many, many years. So we're bringing international people every month to this area. So I I really believe they already have like a big legacy for the local people because they still look at us as an example, as a reference that we you could do it, we still could do it, you know. We really had like a chance to take a national geographic uh ship into this area, which was really uh uh uh a really very uh special moment for us because that's a very good, a very important reference for the market, you know.

SPEAKER_03: 2:11:52

For sure.

SPEAKER_06: 2:11:53

And I and I think it's it's nice to share with you that uh I think Gondwana has like this way of doing things. It's not since the beginning, we were very inspired of our own experience, but also learning with the things. So today it's a very different because we as we are getting bigger and growing, uh we have to be more strategic. So we need to know the data, we need to know the numbers, we need to choose the right people to be in the right place. But if you look in the back, it wasn't like that all the time. So we were very organic and we were always trusting uh a lot of really what we believe is that like if you're doing well and if you have like a good purpose and you are committed with the people, with the local people, with the nature, and you take your responsibilities, I think it's really hard to do to not do well, you know, then so this is part of what we believe. Yeah, this is really strong on us.

SPEAKER_16: 2:12:52

Well, I want to ask you about that specifically because I know I asked Camilla about that on stage yesterday, but Danielle, I'd love to get your take on this as well, because as you described, this destination is not well known. And given that you are now going to be introducing it to more and more travelers around the world, you have an opportunity to do that in the right way so that people travel to this area of the world with the right intentions and they travel in a sustainable way to make sure that if the the um the ecology and um all the wildlife is protected, and I know it's a core part of your company. So tell us a little bit about that journey for you, because clearly it is something that is very special and meaningful for you both, and that resonates. I'm not and so tell us I'm very keen for our listeners to understand the journey that you're going on to make sure as you encourage more people to come that you do it in such a way that is going to be a positive for the environment and the community.

SPEAKER_06: 2:13:44

I think the first thing that people need to know is that it's not everything set up, so it's not 100% ready as a like a very um organized or um a destination that is already um there's no four seasons there yet.

SPEAKER_16: 2:14:00

Yeah, yeah, there's no no exactly. I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_06: 2:14:03

Yeah, that's a good thing if you have if you're open to this. Yeah. So you need to be open for uh living really authentic experience, but in a in a very uh genuine way. So sometimes you can get to go to communities that are fishermen communities in the islands. So they're based in the uh uh in the areas of the Superagui National Park, which is also close to Illia do Mel uh Island, which is a really hot spot for the Ponta Paranais State. Yeah, uh, because it's well known, very desert and beautiful beach.

SPEAKER_03: 2:14:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:14:35

Uh but the the the people won't always be ready to be speaking English with you, of course. Or even uh uh with four or five stars hotel. So you need to be ready to not be looking for that, and also but uh in the other way, you're gonna have opportunity sometimes to be by yourself, all by yourself in uh in an island, like na beach, walking and maybe meeting some of the fishermen doing like their traditional way of fishing, what we call uh the taf the tahaf tahafa.

SPEAKER_05: 2:15:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:15:09

Yeah, because there's this kind of uh fishing traditional ways that it only happens there, and uh you have the opportunity to see that and it's not done for you. It's really authentic. It just happened to be there when you were there crossing this beach. So that's amazing. This is some of the opportunities that you have, or even doing like a canoeing tour with a local fisherman, to do going to like a very small river inside of the mangroves because it's really important. Like the mangroves are areas that are very important today for the biodiversity, for keeping the cleaning water of this, all of this region. And you see so many birds, you see dolphins, and you see how the local people are really connected to this place because they have a relationship with the place. And that's what I learned from this area. You know, I learned that we can do uh also something to relate it with the place, not just visiting, but being gauge. But I think this is the thing that uh we really want also our visitors to have the chance to do it, you know, be engaged with the local people, being it with the nature, uh, but not not in a uh like in a in a position that they're really doing something together, you know?

SPEAKER_16: 2:16:21

Yeah. Well it's really interesting is one of the things I was gonna mention um with regards to sustainability that some, and I know uh Camilla's listened to our episode from the Denver Elevate Conference, and we started that with Eric Blatchford. Eric Blatchford, many of our listeners may know who that is either from uh previous conversations on our podcast, but just for those who are not familiar, he's the first CEO of Expedia. He was um uh he's been a major investor in various travel companies, he ran A and K for a number of years, and so he is a real legend in the travel industry. And one of the things I asked him about was sustainability to kick off that episode, and his view was it's table stakes or it's essential. To be here at ATTA, you have to have sustainability at the core of your business. The two are you know incredibly connected. And that's where Camellia, I know you spoke about this yesterday. Uh the one thing I'd love to get the connection is between your background with ATTA, because I know we've joined these calls together, and we, you know, you you were one of the success stories, and you obviously you kindly mentioned both Julie and Gonzalo as well, who were you know excellent panelists and also had amazing stories to tell from Fiji and from Chile. But tell us a little bit more about how Godwana got involved with ATTA.

SPEAKER_00: 2:17:27

Amazing. Yeah, so Gondwana, uh, we first started um uh associating ourselves to Abeta, which is the Brazilian Ecotourism and Adventure Travel Association. So we started to get very involved with that and in the discussions about the public politics that we needed for the adventure travel sector in Brazil. Uh, and then the ATTA has done their first event out of the United States in 2008 in Brazil. But then they had two events at the same time. So it was in I think it's in in Scotland and also in Brazil. So they they've done that together with Fabeta. So it was my first contact with ATTA, and then wow, being at the first summit is always uh very inspirational. It is an amazing, it's another level of events. So after that, we have been going to every summit uh until Montecatini tell me, which is my which was my last one until now, because then we had the pandemic, etc. So we we couldn't attend anymore. Um, but then and that's where uh we started to get in contact with At ATA. And then as well, uh we have uh becoming members, I think in 2010. So we actually we hold the stamp for being uh venture champion, which is this little stamp that little no big stamp that they gave to all the members that are more than 15 years uh members of ATTA. And I was talking to Gustavo yesterday, and I think it's only around 25 companies that have been that long with uh with the association. And then also I was invited to be uh an ambassador for Latin America. It has been already, I think, around five years. So uh I also have this honor as and this responsibility of taking um ATTA to other members, educating, participating on events, and being really uh an ambassador for the association is is incredible.

SPEAKER_16: 2:19:26

That makes total sense. Now I completely get it. I was just like, and um and so given that journey that you've been on with ATTA, 15 years being one of these success stories, and now us being here in Chile for the second time, I'm assuming you were here 10 years ago then?

SPEAKER_00: 2:19:40

Yes, we were, yeah, both of us.

SPEAKER_16: 2:19:41

Oh, that's fantastic. All right, so I'd love to hear, aside from our session, which obviously was a huge highlight, I think, for both of us, um, what are some of the other standouts from this year, whether it's the speakers or the sessions you've attended, what has been particularly special about Chile in 2025?

SPEAKER_00: 2:19:57

Well, there's lots of things that are good about it, TTA, but I I would highlight the privilege of being in Patagonia. I think um being in the summits, it has allowed me to go to places that some of them I've dreamed on for my entire life, and and then I finally realizing as as the Patagonia is for me, but also has taken me to places that maybe I would never expect to go, as for example, Namibia, which was also a very, very nice summit. So I think the first thing is is having the possibility of of be coming to Patagonia and then staying here for a while because we are doing the W tracking after the summit, so I'm very excited to do that as well. So I think that's the first thing. The second thing for me then is to get out of the office. Um as Danny said, we have been growing exponentially and very fast these last two years after the pandemic, and uh, we have been dedicating a lot of time to structure the team, to really expand the impact that Gondwana um uh is doing, and then doing lots of new processes. So we have been a lot inside um our office and being outside and reminding uh uh why we do what we do and reconnecting with this very important part of dreaming, uh feeling the wind in our um in our heads and also being on the outdoors is something unique and super special because we need to always remember why we do what we do, and the best way to do that is live in it. Yeah, so this is another thing, and then the third thing for me, apart from well, the marketplace, which is good, and and all the the speeches that we are handling, I think uh the other one was um the privilege as well to be on stage yesterday because uh I maybe I never dreamed about being on stage sharing a story, although I know we are very uh important and nice, we do a beautiful work. But um for me yesterday, after, and this became after I was on stage, it was like I was always um very inspired to hear stories about other people's journey and about uh the company's histories and challenges that they face. But uh now being on stage and and being um also a possible inspiration for other people definitely was super big and it was super nice, and to share the stage with uh Jenny and Gonzalo and you it was it was such a privilege. And so for me, uh it's also a big thing to have the chance and the opportunity to meet people like these people that are here, and uh that that maybe I would never have the chance to meet if I wasn't here in in doing what we do, you know. So it really reinforces the powerful encounters that traveling can can can do to us. Um so this is uh it's about the people, it's about the community, it's about feeling feeling the belonging that we feel when we are here, because what we do uh uh it really matters, it really matters to the world. I was hearing someone say before that uh these trips can save lives in a world that everyone is so connected, that everyone is so is running so fast from place to place, you know, uh to have the possibility to stop and and see the beauty of life and the beauty of nature and the and to encounter people and share amazing experiences. Sometimes it gives us the the the the possibility to keep living and to keep living more happy and with more joy. So it is super powerful. And so I feel I think that that is the the best part of being in the summit, yeah.

SPEAKER_16: 2:23:39

You've done an amazing job of summarizing and highlighting so many uh aspects, and I think the human connection for sure is ultimately you know that what's what what happened when we were on stage and the reaction in the audience and people came up to uh each of you afterwards. It that it is that human connection that and I think that is the difference in our industry. We need to be together in person, and so um, and that's why even with this podcast to be able to share and showcase the stories of the people that come together in the hope that more people will join us next year. And um, I have to be mindful because I our listeners know where we're going next year, and um, but it's gonna be announced very shortly on stage, so we we can't uh speak any more about it at the moment, but I do hope that many other people, I obviously you guys are gonna be back. Um but Danny, before we uh get all our listeners to f to learn where they can find out more information about Godwin, I'd love to get your highlights as well from being here at ATTA this year because you guys have such a wonderful dynamic. I mean, just to see you in the audience, um, you were smiling and engaging throughout the session, and I spoke to you afterwards because I could, and you were you guys, you compliment each other so well, and you're so supportive of each other, and it's just like it's just such a lovely dynamic, and you don't you don't always see that in business partners, and like you just you clearly want the best for each other and you want the sun to shine out for the other person, and I'm like that's um anyway, I I that's what really stood out to me. So I'd love to hear what your big takeaways were from the event.

SPEAKER_06: 2:25:03

Um well, I I have been being in ATTA Summit since 2015, so I was my last one in Chile, actually. Yeah, so it's good very special to be here 10 years later. And uh well, I have to start from my my day of adventure, of course. There's connection with Patagonia. I really love Patagonia. I have been here before, but in the Argentinian side, so it's my first time in the very south of the Chile. And I always wanted to do a horse riding, so I did it, and it was fantastic because they they they kind of separate the groups, they wanted that were a little bit more experts, and I I'm one of them, so I had a chance to really run in the fields and with the wind in my face. So it that that that promotes this connection, doing something that really takes us to the origin of why we do that. Why do we want to connect people with nature, with the local people, with the local stories? So to be around the cowboys, how they receive us at the at the ranch was really special because they were all set up with these beautiful horses with the flags, very, very uh proud of themselves, you know? Yeah. So you want to see the local people being proud of themselves when when they they want to be they needed to be the protagonists of all of this, and seeing that is really special for me.

SPEAKER_03: 2:26:22

For sure.

SPEAKER_06: 2:26:23

And about the event, of course, uh it's always good to meet people and to change to exchange uh ideas and also about like the susifings and the challenge that we're facing. Yeah, and um I I I'm on the row of the sustainability with Gondwana at the moment, so I'm really into the travel life program sustainability process, and we have the chances to see what there are other people are facing as challenges, but also finding solutions to deal with all of these uh supply chain things. How do we measure, how do we share our values, how do we share good practice with our suppliers. So this is one thing that was good because I could I could uh kind of listen to other people, what they're doing, how they're doing. But of course, uh one of the most important moments was seeing Camilla at the stage, yes, and then share your story, the pictures when we were very young.

SPEAKER_19: 2:27:16

Yeah, that was so cute.

SPEAKER_06: 2:27:18

That was so cute, yeah. And the people were looking at me, oh my god, you're so young. Yes, uh 24 years ago. So yes, it's incredible. It was very special, and and I think for me it was a very special session, you know, because uh that there were stories from the field, from the look from people from the places that they really live, and uh very genuine, you know, uh the the speech, the talks, and um uh all all uh opening the heart, as you said, yeah, Celia Jenny. So it was really touching, yeah, the the opportunity to see. And of course, it's really um it's really amazing uh to have the opportunity to share, inspire other people with our own story, and also help us to see more about it. You know, you you you you you kind of have an insight that how your business are really doing impact in the world, you know. So this is this is really good.

SPEAKER_16: 2:28:10

Well, that's fantastic. Well, I have two more questions for you. I'm gonna ask one more of Danny and then uh bring Camilla back in to give us more information about where partners or travelers can find out more information. But um, Danny, and if I can call you Danny, I know you think I refer to as Daniela, but I was just like all of a sudden I so um uh one of the things I was keen to know is you know your plans for 2026 or even going into 2027 um as far as the the types of trips, the partners, the like where is Godwana? You talked obviously, Camilla, about the last two years just being you know phenomenal growth, so it's good to step out of it and be here. Tell us a little bit about what's ahead for Godwana in 2026.

SPEAKER_06: 2:28:48

Well, we we is uh we have uh BPP uh project, so we're vesting a lot of people, product, and uh process. Yeah, because there's no way that you can grow without that. We already know about it. And so we're bringing a lot of new people to the team. So it's something that we need to work on. It's like how we share our culture with these new people. How do they get this feeling of being in an adventure travel uh trade market? Because it's it's not it's not very conventional, you know. It's very hard to put people on the trail without the feeling of this. And that's why also we brought Beto because he Beto is our uh market com uh market manager, and he we wanted him to be here with us to get this feeling of how the how this world works, you know, what are the inspirations of it? Because that's what we want to put on the the on the track for future also. But I think it's about the structuring then. We need people, we need good people, the right people in the right places, we need to have our process stabilized, and we need, of course, we have this main object to be certified on the travel pro that travel. Life uh sustainability program. So this is a very uh big goal for us. And the other thing is that we uh of course looking for products. We wanted to uh be more deep on into that and uh be closer to uh conservation projects in Brazil and also social projects to be able to also um offer more experiences that people can be more engaged with nature conservancy social projects and get the more authentic for Brazil. This is something that is really, really big. And the other thing is that me and Camila we have been talking about how important for us is to have more space in our agenda to be on this air, uh on these kind of events with uh more uh people from the trade to be uh able also to uh learn from that but also inspire. So we we want to be more out of the office at the moment. Next year is is our goal also to be more out of the office and let people work, you know, and we're gonna be inspiring then.

SPEAKER_16: 2:31:04

The one thing that's amazing for um to hear from both of you and have this time together is how much energy you both have. And I'm sure our listeners are picking up on it as well. The fact that, you know, 24 years in and you know, the last couple years being so uh wild, and you know, that you guys are not like you it's almost like you've just started this business in the last like few months. You have that type of energy and enthusiasm, and it's very infectious. So um I've really enjoyed getting a chance to meet you and to get to know both of you. Um and Camilla, I want to make sure, given that you are um, you know, there's so many valuable insights that you shared yesterday that people can learn from you. And I called out one example and I asked you a follow-up question about sustainability and the word equity that you use. Um, that at the beginning of our podcast, they would have heard me speaking to Carolina from Tompkins Conservation. And I asked that question of her, and I asked that question of you on stage yesterday because I really love that you chose that word and what it means. So I'm sharing that because I want to make sure that all of our listeners not only go to your website, reach out to you because they can learn so much and hopefully partner with you and other travelers that are gonna now discover a part of Brazil that they didn't know existed. So tell everyone how they can find out more information and connect with you guys.

SPEAKER_00: 2:32:19

Oh, yeah, we you can you can um um look at our website is um www. uh.gonduanabrazil and brazil with s dot com.br. So this is important. It's power, it's part of our mission also. So Brazil is normally written with S, but then as an internationalized process, it has been transformed into Z. But we as Gondwana we uh we reinforce the importance of being the authentic Brazil. That's the Brazil with S. Um, so just making a point there, and then the same way for our social uh media. So uh Instagram uh gondwana Brazil uh with S. And also I think yeah, this is too many ways where can they reach out um to Gondwana?

SPEAKER_16: 2:33:06

Amazing. Thank you, Camilla, and thank you, Daniela. Real pleasure to meet you both. I wish you every success in the year ahead, and I look forward to seeing you next year at ATWS.

SPEAKER_00: 2:33:15

Oh, great, Dan. Thank you very much for giving us the opportunity, and it was amazing to share the stage with you, and yeah, we hope to see you next year.

SPEAKER_06: 2:33:22

Yes, thank you, Dan. It was really amazing to be here, also.

SPEAKER_16: 2:33:26

You guys are fantastic, thank you so much. I am delighted now to have a guest returning to our event, Spotlight, that I had the pleasure to get time with in Denver. And you heard from Rob Holmes, who's the founder of GLP Films. He's also you know, he's an award-winning filmmaker and a legendary filmmaker. He had an incredible premiere last night here in Porto Natales. He always ties it together at ATTA and launches these incredible new travel videos that he works on with Tourism Board. So, first of all, Rob, welcome back to Travel Trends. Thanks again for joining us.

SPEAKER_12: 2:34:02

Hey Dan, great to be here. And uh of all places in Porto Natales in southern Chile. Yeah, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_16: 2:34:07

Yeah, exactly. We've all journeyed to be here to the uh the end of the world. Uh, but tell us about last night because you had more than 200 people there. It was one of the most successful premiers you've ever had. Tell us a little bit more about what all transpired last night.

SPEAKER_12: 2:34:21

Well, the you know, GLP has got a long history. We've been around 17 years now, and actually many people might not know, but in the very beginning, when I started GLP in 2008, uh I we went to Africa, uh, me and a journalist and a videographer, and we produced, we were there for a month. We produced a whole series of films, and we ended up uh just doing a roadshow, going around the U.S. uh, and that snowballed into you know having a team go around the country and doing events. And so I kind of went a little old school several years ago saying, gosh, you know, the power of film, how I got into this, what inspires me, what I think other people get inspired about. And I do think I don't want to speak for everyone else, but getting together and watching just great, engaging, awesome films is really powerful. So we've kind of brought that back, uh, even though we used to do a hundred events a year. Uh, we've brought it back the last three years and kind of piggybacked on other events that are going. And yeah, last night was awesome. It was a capstone of uh you know working with Chile Tourism for a couple years. Um, really, it was a world premiere. We were showing three films that had not been shown uh to the public at this point. And yeah, we had a packed house, uh well, you know, 150, 200 people, um, you know, food, wine, all from Chile, uh really cool warehouse venue with creaky boards and uh, you know, just an awesome atmosphere. And we premiered a whole new film series that we're we've officially launched now with Chile. Uh and I think most importantly for me, it's outside of getting people together and just really having that joy and that hangout time, it's just being inspired on where tourism needs to go. And I think that was kind of the purpose of the event. And the purpose of our work with Chili Tourism is giving them that opportunity to reposition the destination. And the core themes were community, were uh conservation, and then looking at issues around, you know, we had three different stories, three different regions, the Los Rios region, Los Lagos, and Aerocanilla. And we had one story on this convergence of mountain biking with the indigenous uh Mopuche community, uh, which is the largest indigenous community in all of Chile. Uh, then we had a story on Wilo Willo Biological Reserve, looking at wildlife conservation, which again is rarely talked about at these events. And then lastly, Cochemo Valley looking at um, you know, an epic uh climbing and hiking destination that uh also has to has had a huge uh wealth of support in protecting and preserving this area for generations to come. So just super fun just having people come together. We had a great turnout, a whole mix of people, lots of people from Chile, but you know, leveraging, tapping into the ATTA community, people from all around the world, just wanting to enjoy and be inspired.

SPEAKER_16: 2:37:20

Yeah, that's fantastic. And I heard uh so much great feedback this morning from people who had been there, and obviously it's one of the things that people really look forward to at coming to an ATTA event is um your premieres, and I want to make sure that everyone can see these videos as well. So I want to make sure that uh right now I want to talk about some of the things you're planning going forward. But uh for anyone that's just heard that and was like, I need to see these, uh, where best to find them, Rob?

SPEAKER_12: 2:37:44

Yeah, we had to wait until this event, honestly, because it's uh it was a premiere, so uh they are now out into the public, so to speak. Um so now we can uh we're gonna be launching them next week just on GLP Films, our YouTube page. Uh, they will also be on our website, glpfilms.com. Um, but I think YouTube is primarily where most people will find them. And we we created a whole number of categories and playlists on YouTube just to uh divide the films up by theme. And uh so yeah, YouTube's a place to go.

SPEAKER_16: 2:38:15

Cool. All right, make sure everyone checks that out. And then as we sit here today on the final day of ATTA after your premiere last night, obviously there's lots of benefits of you being here. What are some of the other things that stood out to you this year being all the way down here in Chile?

SPEAKER_12: 2:38:29

You know, this is an annual gathering of like-minded folks, and you know, there's very few events that I go to on a regular basis that really engage you, and there's a lot of great thoughts and conversations and good times. And, you know, I did my day of adventure going trail running. I mean, you just see all the photos of the different adventures that people did, and it's just awesome. You know, it's an annual gathering, it's a really good people, um, you know, good thought leadership here, talking about issues and topics and going on in Chile and South America and globally. So I'd say, you know, overall, just you know, hearing more about AI, hearing more about sustainability, regenerative, indigenous, you know, these important issues and topics in the industry that we all need to be doing our part. And, you know, I can't uh, you know, always excited to come again.

SPEAKER_16: 2:39:21

Yeah, well, actually, I just want to pick up on that point since you mentioned AI and it definitely became part of our conversation last time in Denver. One of the things I was keen to get your take on now, and I just wanted to revisit for our audience is the use of AI and video. When I talk about the biggest trends in marketing for AI in 2026, one of them is the utilization of AI to generate videos. And one of the things I was concerned about as I saw other organizations' tourism boards in particular creating videos with AI, I wanted to get your take on this because I had seen a uh OTA, an online travel agency based in uh Southeast Asia that was creating this campaign on Australia and they had done everything on AI and it looked spectacular, looked like better than real life. And this brings up that question about the appropriate use. And you're someone that has shot some of the most iconic images around the world of real like wildlife. And so, where do you think the appropriate utilization is with AI? Because I know you had highlighted to me that you guys, you guys use AI. You need to embrace this technology for some of the production techniques. But yeah, if you wouldn't mind sharing that with our audience, I'm sure they'd love your uh your view on that.

SPEAKER_12: 2:40:29

Yeah, AI, as we spoke earlier, it it's it's infiltrating all sectors of all industries, and everyone needs to be aware of it. I will say in our world in the content marketing space, um, AI is definitely, I mean, the first thing to go was text. First second thing to go was photo, still images, and now looking at video. I I my approach to it is every brand, every destination should have their own in-house production. Um, video is such an important vehicle. It's uh we've built our success and company on this video technology, the platform, the channels that go with it, uh, because it's so important. It's nothing better. Uh that's why we specialize in just award-winning storytelling, because that's what engages consumers. Um, really great, compelling videos and uh that that'll just inspire and educate, hence why we did the event last night. So I I'm kind of bullish in the sense that everyone should be having some form to produce their own content. For us directly, um, you know, we definitely use AI where it can benefit us on the research, on the uh diving into certain issues and topics while uh building and putting together like the three, four months that we spent putting together this Chili campaign. Uh a lot of research goes in, and we can tap into AI and use it as a vehicle to make us smarter, quicker, faster, and and help uh just from an efficiency standpoint. But I I will say I was speaking to Jason Records, uh, you know, who is uh AI guru now, you know, former ATTA, and uh, you know, really diving into this, and and he agreed that you know, where we're at, where our team, GLP, we're at a different level. Um, you know, not in a bullish standpoint or it but it's just true. I mean, in order to produce award-winning content, the the breadth and depth of stories and issues and topics and the people and the characters, it's extremely complex. You know, we don't develop a storyboard, we don't have a script that people read from. This is all documentary style. It's very hard. I mean, really, AI is not AI is going after the people that are just looking for the churn and burn content that destinations and brands need, don't get me wrong, video content, short socials, long form, short form, it's all needed. And AI can be a huge benefit for destination or brand in trying to scale and just engage with consumers and have that regular churn of content via Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, what have you. So, but we're not, we're not there. We're we're in a totally different area where we're looking at multi-stakeholder, very complex issues, very trade-related topics and issues and trends, looking at sustainability, looking at regenerative, looking at indigenous. AI is not going to be the solution for that, you know? So, not to say that we're not thinking about it or aware. I think you all we all have to use it uh as a vehicle and as another tool in our tool belt. But the human aspect, the human thought process, the strategy that goes in, it's exponential in the work we're doing. So again, AI is our friend and we use it and we work well with it. But uh, you know, to to create um to create the level and the complexity of stories that we're developing where you don't know the final end until you're in the edit room, that's just a different level, and that's okay. But again, we'll still follow and see where we can learn from AI.

SPEAKER_16: 2:43:53

Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that, Rob. And I I know you've got so many other projects in the pipeline, and we see each other at various events throughout the year. We'll see each other at uh WTM in London, and so it's always great to see you and connect. And given you've got so many projects on the go, I'd love to share what you can about 2026 and where you and the team are headed and some of the other great initiatives that you have underway.

SPEAKER_12: 2:44:15

Yeah, two that I can mention, because some again are not finalized or confirmed, but again, it's always fun to see what comes up. And you know, this is why we go, I go to all these travel events and trade shows is to connect with existing friends or new friends, and so it's a constantly revolving door. But we just were in uh Catalonia, Spain in the Pyrenees, and uh so that campaign is coming out next year. Uh I I was honest to working with the folks in uh Catalonia that I I didn't know much about the Pyrenees in Catalonia, and uh it's a beautiful, magical region, untapped, uh just a gem, just four hours, four hours outside of Barcelona, you know, one of the biggest tourist attractions in the world. Um and then another campaign that I I can say is uh probably gonna be our biggest undertaking ever. It's gonna be looking at horse tourism. So no, I'm not a I'm not a horse or equestrian expert. But uh what's fascinating, because I was just speaking on uh regenerative tourism at a conference in uh Poland just a couple weeks ago, is it's gonna be five countries looking at the horse tourism industry. So we're gonna be in Germany, Denmark, Sweden, uh, Poland, and Lithuania. And so it's gonna be fascinating. The multi-stakeholder, you talk about complexity, talk about AI. You know, this is this is gonna be fascinating to see how five different countries relate to this one sector. So those are just a couple uh things that we're working on right now. Um, you know, just always excited, and I'll have more to come and keep you posted on what's next for 2026. It's gonna be great.

SPEAKER_16: 2:45:55

Oh, that's fantastic, Rob. But I know not only will I see you at the next series of conferences, but obviously at ATTA next year, which I'm pretty excited about the destination that'll be announced shortly as we sit here in the uh the final hours of the conference. So knowing that you're gonna be there, obviously that is something I always look forward to. So we're definitely gonna speak again. And I look forward to doing more collaborations with you. I said that to Rob just before we kicked off. And you know, he's such a thought leader and such an expert in the space in this industry, and there's very few people that have this level of expertise and a really unique angle on the industry. There's no, you know, there's no one else here that does what you do, Rob. And um, that is uh really special. And I think you know, you've got so much to be able to share and with our listeners. And I'm yeah, I'm uh you know, I'm a huge fan of your work, as you know, and I'm glad that we've uh had the opportunity to kind of get to know each other better over the last couple of years. And yeah, you certainly have my full support, and I hope all of our listeners take the opportunity to. If you don't know anything about Rob Holmes yet, you need to. So check out the website, connect with him on LinkedIn. Is there anywhere else you'd point people to, uh, your social channels?

SPEAKER_12: 2:47:01

I'd say LinkedIn is probably the best. Um, obviously, our website, our GLP YouTube page. Um, you know, our people honestly, we get a lot of people following us just through our newsletter. Uh, it gets a real high click-through rate, uh, just like two, three times industry average. And so it's really nice to have that engage. It's a soft ping once a month, you know, and just see what's going on, latest and greatest, where I'm going, what new projects we're working on, campaigns, results. Um, I will say, you know, with the film event we did last night, it, you know, the team reached out asking how it went, and this was a team effort. The amount of partners and collaborators that had to come together to put together this awesome event uh was huge. And so this isn't just Rob Holmes, this is our team at GLP, and definitely very proud of the videos, the content, uh, just the outreach that needed to happen to get people to attend. Uh, I I definitely expressed heartfelt thanks to our entire team uh because it's not just me, it's all of us. And uh we're doing something new and indifferent, but it's it's a it's definitely a team effort. So good to be back, Dan. Uh always great to connect in some exotic location around the world and look forward to the next one. And yeah, uh, let's just keep in touch. Awesome. Thanks so much, Rob.

SPEAKER_16: 2:48:16

I now have the chance to speak to Gabby Stoll, who was the vice president at ATTA last time we spoke. And she's actually a key reason that Travel Trends has become a partner with ATTA. Her and I actually collaborated together on the contract that we put together uh in terms of all the things we were gonna do for this partnership. And you know, I I certainly I thank you for that. And I've also just been thrilled that it's come together as well as it has. And so I was really keen to have Gabby here on the podcast for a couple of reasons. Obviously, that background, but she's also started a new role, and I also just want to get her insights at the conference. So, Gabby, welcome back to Travel Trends. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_01: 2:48:51

Thank you for having me then. That was a pleasure.

SPEAKER_16: 2:48:53

For sure. We we spoke in Panama last year, it was such an inspiring conversation, and uh it really kind of set the tone for me that episode and what we were able to create at that event spotlight. And I know yourself and Shannon had listened to it on a road trip. Yes, and I called the second one like the road trip edition because it was like five hours. So and uh it thrilled me that you guys enjoyed hearing all these voices from people at the conference, many people you know, but you always find someone that uh you know I'm meeting for the first time, and then you're hearing from for the first time, and you get to hear their story. So I'm keen to have you back to be able to share your story. So tell us a little bit about what's changed. So you decided to leave ATTA despite being there 11 years and having such great success and have taken on a new role. But tell us what brought about the change since we saw each other in Denver.

SPEAKER_01: 2:49:37

Of course, of course. Well, I'm always gonna be part of this ATTA and the community. There's no way. As you know, you got hooked too. Yeah. Once you come, you never leave. It's the hotel California of the travel industry. But no, just kidding. I, you know, it's been 11 years at ATTA, 11 years, and I've done all the roles you can imagine. I started a membership, I did research, I did a you, I was the Latin America director for a long time. I ended up being the vice president. I was about to become the president, and then I was like, you know, I am 43 years old. I am still, I've been in the travel industry since I was 19. I started as a guide in the Pentanal. I think we talked a little bit about it.

SPEAKER_19: 2:50:15

Yeah, we did, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 2:50:16

And um, and I was like, you know, I want to challenge myself still, you know, like I want to grow. I don't want to be stagnant. In Brazil, we say like stagnant water creates dengue, the mosquito that does the disease. So I was like, I still want to grow. I still like adventure. So I was like, okay. And uh we I was able to support the team to to grow, and I helped train and establish such a good team at ATTA of young, you know, uh very, very well capable people. And I was like, I can actually live and I can start something else. So that was the motivation to continue to grow, to continue to learn, to continue to live a new adventure. And I'm very excited uh to be starting at Banneking with this new role, which is making total sense, is a perfect fit. And I'm here representing Bannekin already. So it's still part of the community, it's still part of everything.

SPEAKER_16: 2:51:06

Yeah, that's awesome. So it's interesting that we're having this conversation, especially after uh kicking off this event spotlight episode with uh Christine Tompkins, who went through a similar journey herself when she left Patagonia. She was the CEO of Patagonia. How do you ever leave that role? But she was ready for change. And you certainly have built an amazing community around here, the executive team. And I still remember taking a picture of you guys at the end of the Denver conference, and you guys were celebrating, and I was like, wow, what a fantastic team. And then when I hope you're leaving, I'm like, oh no, Gabby's leaving. But everything, all good things do come to an end. And um, and you have, as you say, you're still young and you've got lots more to offer. And I know um from following your Instagram that you've been traveling a lot. Yeah, and obviously you're based, you're you were from you're based in the US, but you are from Brazil. Yes. Um, tell us a little bit about your travels the last couple of months.

SPEAKER_01: 2:51:52

Yeah, I got to do a sabbatical. I don't remember ever taking that amount of time off. I thought I was gonna struggle, but then I was like, I really got used to it. It was fun to travel, not for work, for once, in my own country, going back to my roots. And it was also a beautiful cycle also at HTA because I was the MC of the Latin America event, which was in Bonito, Mato Grosso do Sul, where I started my career. And in that event, I saw everybody from all the phases of my travel career in Brazil. And so I came back to it. So it was a full circle, and now you know, starting a new rope, going back to Brazil. It was great. I went to a jazz festival in Parachi, which is awesome. I highly recommend. Brazil is amazing. So being there with my people, my my the people that I grew up with, uh, my family, of course, and just traveling as a tourist, not for work, it was super fun. And I'm recharged, I'm inspired, I um yeah, I'm ready.

SPEAKER_16: 2:52:43

Well, that's cool. Well, we're gonna talk about your new role in a moment, but one thing I just want to connect given that you're from South America and we're here in Chile, and you were part of the uh conference 10 years ago that Shannon was talking about, and you've been here multiple times since, so this place is obviously special for you, and there's definitely a more a sense of like a South American community. I mean, the people that are here from Ecuador and from Colombia, there's just sort of a South American vibe.

SPEAKER_03: 2:53:05

Yes, yes, and I love it.

SPEAKER_16: 2:53:07

Like, I'm just like, I feel like at ATETA I've met my tribe or my people, but really South America, it's like there's something special about this continent and the history and the culture, and it it was evident to me in the music. And I was saying this to Shannon about uh Las Javas.

SPEAKER_01: 2:53:22

Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh, that was epic. It was unbelievable.

SPEAKER_16: 2:53:25

I know I was just like, how have I never heard about like this biggest Chilean band ever and how remarkable their music was? It's very rare that you hear, at least for me anyway, a band for the first time and their music instantly like you connects, yeah. Yeah, speaks to your connection. You like it the first time you hear it. You don't have to listen to it three times to find your favorite hits. Yes, you're just like, oh my god, the music, the sounds, everything that's happening right now, the drummer. This just like this is epic. Um, but yeah, tell us about being back in Chile for this event. Because you were actually responsible, I just want all of our listeners to know that too, um, for putting a lot of the content together. So a lot of the things that uh we're seeing now, uh you had put in place before you departed your role. So I mean, this has to be interesting for you to be here and seeing how it all plays out. So, yeah, tell us a little bit more about uh greater just be back in Chile.

SPEAKER_01: 2:54:10

Now it's uh Chile uh lives deeply in my heart because I I've been working in this region, and we know we've done the summit here in 2015. I did the W of my pre-adventure was here in in Torres del Piney. So then I came back in 2017 in Tierra do Fuego, incredible destination, one of the best trips of my life. And then we did Adventure Next Patagonia. So and this region is really dear to my heart and very special community. I love the culture. What an awesome place where you have the you know, the lamp and the king crab. That's the food and the calafate and the gaucho culture. It's very similar to, of course, the Patagonia culture, it's very similar to you know in Argentina and Brazil and Uruguay and all that. So it feels at home. We drink much too in south of Brazil. So I just love the community. And uh Latin America has always been you know like um special to me. And we started the 2018 in movement inside ATTA, which is super alive, which is called Una Fuerza, which is the one force where the Latin Americans connect to talk about our opportunities, our challenges, our you know, and we share. And um so yeah, of course, here, you know, it's wonderful to see and to see that industry growing, you know, towards more sustainable, community-based travel, women leadership, you know, indigenous communities, and getting both respect and support from the governments, which is very important, but also like from the community and getting to be known more. And uh so it's it's super cool. And the content, um, very special because um, you know, I work on the theme of the event and chose the content, and it's just I love it. And I'm uh absorbing all of it, learning, tons of it. And it's such a you know, we work so hard and we envision it, and yeah, always better in person. Like it's it's surprising me how good it is and how much more, you know, I've been feeling and learning, and I'm loving it. Yeah, I'm very thankful for all the speakers. They everybody brings that's the ATTA, right? Like the open the open heart to share and not treat each other as competitors and just really share best practices, and you can feel it in everywhere you go here.

SPEAKER_16: 2:56:13

Well, on my uh pre-trip, I met a number of people that were involved in sessions and the time and effort. I mean, I'm moderating a session right after this. I'm so looking forward to, and uh it's about success stories from ATTA, and it features a few people that uh will likely be part of this episode as well from Explora, which is Gonzalo, who and that's a special Chilean success story, and Gawana from Brazil from where you're based. Um so we'll get to hear from Camila as well, yes. Um, and then Julie from Fiji. So this is but when I saw other people getting ready for their sessions to moderate the care and effort they were putting into it with connecting with the panelists, um, Nina, who did a session earlier. I mean, I saw her multiple times like working on it. Also, um, and I gave her a little bit of feedback. She was, you know, like stressed in a good way, like getting ready for it, just really cared.

SPEAKER_03: 2:57:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_16: 2:57:00

And then she she spent the two hours on a coach with her panel preparing. And like, so people put a lot of time and effort and energy into it. So it's a credit to you and to the community that um that's been built. But you mentioned something about Chile that I just want to highlight for all of our listeners that I didn't know about before coming here. It's calafate. Yes, it's like for me, it's like the it's like the maple syrup of of Chile, like as far as an equivalent, it's not anything like maple syrup, but it's a berry.

SPEAKER_01: 2:57:24

It's a berry.

SPEAKER_16: 2:57:25

Tell everyone what it is because it's everywhere here.

SPEAKER_01: 2:57:27

Yeah, it's kind of a blueberry-ish different, it's unique from here, and they say once you eat it, you're gonna be back. Yeah, like you're you're gonna definitely be back, and it's true. And they make a special drink here that is the you know calafate sour because p you know chili has the pisco sour. Uh, sorry, Peruvians, they they do too. So uh not to do not to create uh a conflict here, but and here you have a special one. So you have to come to Patagonia, you have to come to this region to have a calafate sour. It is you know a fruit and it's delicious, it's very good, healthy, and you can have jams and juice. It doesn't need to be alcohol, but uh the calafate sour is pretty special.

SPEAKER_16: 2:58:04

Yeah, I had the I've had the calafate beer, the Patagonian Calafate beer, Austral beer, which has been fantastic. But yes, as you say, it doesn't have to be an alcoholic drink, but that's a unique uh the the uh utilization of calafate, like it's it's one of those things you come to a place and you realize there's all these different um ways that you can enjoy calafate, and I'm like, how did I even not even hear about this before, right?

SPEAKER_01: 2:58:24

And this is the beauty of travel and going off the bit and path and connecting and the food and the culture is so important, right? For all we do. We always talk about this at ATTA, right? Like there is beautiful places everywhere, but um, culture is what makes a destination unique, and you can experience that here. Beautiful nature, of course, but the culture, the food, you know, which is part of the culture, is really what makes the place unique, you know?

SPEAKER_16: 2:58:46

Yeah, totally, yeah. Well, let's talk about your new role at Bannekin because I know the team at Bannik Bannekin quite well. We actually had worked with Bannekin and was at the Travel Corporation, and we brought Bannekin in. They ran our sustainability side of the business, which was called Treadrite. And so and so I'm uh and actually very interestingly, Gabby, our producer for our podcast, Zach, who will be the one editing this, uh, worked at Bannekin for a number of years and has a great respect for the team there. So I was delighted when I found out that you had taken on a role at Bannekin. Um, but tell everyone a little bit more about Bannekin and this role that you've taken on.

SPEAKER_01: 2:59:20

Yeah, so I'm the new travel trade specialist at Bannakin, and which I'm super excited. So I will be supporting the trade side of things, you know, connecting destinations and suppliers with the travel industry, like partners, uh the B2B side of things, and it's perfect because you know, all these years in ATTA, I got to know a lot of the trade and the buyers, and but also the suppliers. And I'm very excited to start developing that. And um, you know, and it's awesome because um Bennekin already has like the PR side of things, you know, and the communication side of things, the marketing side of things. And so we can complement work together, uh, it represents destinations in. Suppliers, but also we also do destination development around sustainability. So the vision of the company is very aligned with what I believe and what I like to do. The team is great. I'm very excited to, they're all, you know, so so experienced and so knowledgeable. I am really, really excited to find a um a place where my heart is really beating happily because we we believe in tourism being done right, you know, all the things that I always believed and I always worked for. And uh yeah, I'm very excited for this new opportunity to learn from them and to grow with them and to continue to work for the travel industry to go in the right place for the right, you know, like move the needle in the right direction on sustainable, inclusive, you know, indigenous women, in everything. Like uh so I'm very aligned with the mission. So it's terrific.

SPEAKER_16: 3:00:51

They're very lucky to have you. No, for sure they are, and that's why I was like delighted. I'm like, no way, she's going to Bannekin, because yeah, I know them from their sustainability credentials and their PR activity. But the one thing that also stood out to me is that I know the team's based in Toronto, which is where I am, uh as you know, and but one of the big opportunities is to expand them globally, like especially in South America. Yes. So is that gonna be part of your focus?

SPEAKER_01: 3:01:14

Yeah, a lot, a lot. So I'll definitely, you know, that's where I'm I have a bunch of connections too. So the North American market, uh, US, Canada, Mexico be my first priority, but Brazil actually, you know, connecting people with Brazil, and I've been hearing a lot here that there is a lot of interest that from the Brazilian, you know, community buyers. And so I'm very excited to start with that. But yeah, the idea is to expand globally. We already represent uh companies, you know, like from Japan and from Latin America, from Europe. Um, but yeah, more on that for sure.

SPEAKER_16: 3:01:42

Yeah, well, it's really the thing that's fascinating about Brazil specifically, and that's why I was excited that when you took on this role and knowing what a big opportunity South America. When I was based in LA at the travel corporation, one of the regions that became uh kind of under my purview was uh also understanding Latin America and South America, which I was limited and I had traveled there, but I was limited in my business understanding about distribution partners and clearly Brazil, like just based on population alone, which some many people are not. I'm always shocked that people don't know population or language, like Brazil is obviously Portuguese, unlike most of South America, which is Spanish. And um, but the population of uh Brazil is about a hundred million.

SPEAKER_01: 3:02:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_16: 3:02:19

And so it's you know, it's a massive market. Yes, and so there's always been this keenness to try and crack the Brazilian market for North American travel companies. But it's very hard if you don't know the local culture and you can't really connect with local business players and figure out who the right partners are to work with. So that's why I'm like, oh my God, you're gonna unlock this for them. Yeah, and Brazil is a huge opportunity.

SPEAKER_01: 3:02:41

Totally. And you know, there are different niches inside Brazil, like such a diverse country and a big country. You know, you have more of the luxury traveler, you have more the experience of travel. And I can see that because of sustainability and the world and everything that it is, we are starting to do more regional travel too. You know, like uh Brazilians used to go, you know, a lot to the US and Europe, and they're like starting to really discover Latin America, and there is such a huge opportunity because you know, for for us to just and connection, flight connections to, you know, I flew from Florianopolis, where I, you know, we I live part of the time, um, to Director Santiago, and that's so cool, you know, to be able to connect you in our own region and get to know better.

SPEAKER_16: 3:03:20

And tell everyone exactly where that is, because I actually when I was speaking to Juliana, our common uh friend that runs impulse travel, and she'd mentioned how and I had to say to her, I'm like, I because I always want to double check, I'm like, where is that again? Because I don't know geographically, but it's an island.

SPEAKER_01: 3:03:32

Yeah, it is an island, it's known as the Magic Island, it's in south of Brazil, the Santa Catarina state. So um we have only one more state um south, which is Rio Grande do Sul, and then it's Uruguay, so it's south of Brazil. So we have all the seasons there. And uh it's known as the Magic Island. It's a very special place that uh I invite everybody to come visit. Because and if you wanna reach you, you can reach me and I'll show you around.

SPEAKER_16: 3:03:56

Oh, that's awesome. Well, on that exact note, I do want to make sure that all of our listeners now know your new contact details. I'm sure they can find you on LinkedIn. But um, given that so many people still want to stay in touch with you, and many people who are gonna be listening to this, all of a sudden say, wait a second, I the they'll be learning about your new role and excited for you. So, what are the best ways for people to be able to reach out to you now, Gabby?

SPEAKER_01: 3:04:15

Yeah, you can reach out to me through email, Gabriella double uh at panicane.com, our website. Um, I'm gonna link it in, I'm everywhere. So I'm easy to find. I'm loud also.

SPEAKER_16: 3:04:25

So you've got so much energy. That's what I was like. Uh no, but Gabby, thanks again for the partnership. Thanks for being here for this recording. Obviously, I'm really happy for you on your new journey, and I'm sure you're gonna be incredibly success successful at Bannekin. And I look forward to speaking to you again at the next conference.

SPEAKER_01: 3:04:41

Thank you, and thank you for being here and for your contribution with the panel, with the podcast, and everything you do. Then it's a pleasure.

SPEAKER_16: 3:04:48

Thank you so much, Gabby. Yes. Awesome. I now have the chance to speak to Isabel Hoffman, who's come all the way from Australia, and she runs a bike touring company. We were chatting the other night at the opening reception. We were actually having Lam and sitting outside together, and we were like, wait a second, I'm interviewing you on Thursday. And so I'm really looking forward to having this chat and explaining a bit more about the cycling experience, because obviously I had a PSA before this, as people have heard on this episode, and experienced bike tour for the first time. So as soon as I met Isabel, I was like, Oh my god, I've had the most incredible bike touring experience, and it's exactly what you guys do. So, Isabel, welcome to the podcast, first of all.

SPEAKER_05: 3:05:25

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_16: 3:05:26

For sure. No, I'm thrilled that you're here. And tell everyone a bit about bike odyssey and the background in your business. Because I know your husband's an archaeologist. I want all of our listeners to hear the story because it's so interesting.

SPEAKER_05: 3:05:36

Well, yes, and my husband Sam Wood is actually the super interesting one. I'm just the um, you know, co-founder. But he is an archaeologist, he was working at the British Museum, and and he wanted to ride uh the route of his favourite commander of all time, Carthaginian Hannibal Barker. So he thought, why not propose it to the BBC and see if they'll make a documentary out of it? They said yes. So Sam rode it with his brothers from Barcelona to Rome and all the way back to Tunisia. Took three months with the BBC crews and loved it. And it's um aired on BBC um in 70 countries around the world. It's still the most up-to-date Docker on Hannibal, still, 15, oh 17 years later. Um but he came back and said that was the most amazing bike trip I've ever done. I'm gonna make a business so I can take other people on it. And that's what he did.

SPEAKER_16: 3:06:29

Incredible. And I know you're so you're based just outside of Sydney, and when we were chatting the other night, you were telling me that you just only actually do bike tours as far as Australia is concerned, in Tasmania, which is beautiful and a great place to cycle. Um, but all of your trips are outbound from Australia, um, and Japan, I know, is a big destination. So tell us uh some of the trips that you guys have created, like where the business really kind of got its footing, and the type of trips that you guys run now for obviously a much larger clientele, because it's been what, 13 years?

SPEAKER_05: 3:06:58

Uh no, we've we've run bicodyssey since 2017.

SPEAKER_16: 3:07:01

2017, sorry, eight years, eight, nine years.

SPEAKER_05: 3:07:03

Yep. Um so yeah, you're exactly right. We do big trips outside of Australia mostly, one in Tasmania. Um, but yeah, otherwise Japan, Morocco, many in Europe. Um we do one in Chile here, which is fantastic. Um and basically uh we just think of the best place in the world we would love to cycle next. And then Sam comes up with um an historical figure or an historical people we can follow in that area and then creates a route. And so it is super fun. We take more than two years um creating a trip.

SPEAKER_19: 3:07:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_05: 3:07:36

And uh, you know, there's a huge amount of things that go into it like cycleable roads and fabulous hotels. We're high end, so you know, all four plus four star plus. Um, and we want to experience fabulous um culture along the way, so UNESCO sites, a lot of historical sites, and cut you know, all the cultural things, meeting the locals, eating the eating the the food wherever we go. So um yeah, we just kind of put together the best things we could possibly find in that area and off we go.

SPEAKER_16: 3:08:05

That's cool. I totally get the desire for a luxury accommodation after you've been on a bike seat all day, now that I know what that's like.

SPEAKER_05: 3:08:11

That is fantastic, yes.

SPEAKER_16: 3:08:13

But you also have this wonderful sense of accomplishment that clearly you know that I've only just come to discover after you know riding for 60 kilometers and having you know beautiful fresh air in your face. It's like the most incredible natural high. And um at the end of the day, uh to be able to then have a nice meal and stay in a nice hotel. I mean, it's just like the ultimate complement to being able to have that physical activity as well.

SPEAKER_05: 3:08:34

Oh, Dan, it really is. Honestly, it is it is a beautiful way to see places. It's slow travel, so you really you can stop anytime, take pictures, talk to the people you're passing. You know, you might be um chatting with the kids that are herding the goats in Morocco, or you know, there's so many local people that you you have the time to stop and meet. And we do lots of um local walking tours and visiting farms, olive oil farms, or truffle, truffle forests, you know, all this local stuff where you really get to connect with the people, which is fabulous. And uh we just we eat really, really well. There is never a day on a bike odyssey that we have hangry people, that's for sure. Um, in fact, it's probably the only complaint we get is that the people don't lose weight on our trips, but they cycle all day and they eat great and they sleep great, and so every day you're refreshed. Um and so it makes for a fabulous, fabulous travel kind of setup. Everyone's happy each day, they're refreshed, and um, we take a soigneur on on two with us, so as the riders come in, they set up their massage table and and fix any you know niggles and or just give them a nice relaxing massage. I mean, it's honestly the way to to see the world.

SPEAKER_17: 3:09:40

Come on, I didn't have that on my trip. That's just this is new information. I didn't realise that's an option with some of the bike tours. That's really cool. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_16: 3:09:48

Tell us about the one you do in Chile specifically, since we're here together in Porto Natales. What is the bike trip you guys do in Chile?

SPEAKER_05: 3:09:55

Uh, Chile, we do a 26-day trip from we start in Santiago and go down through the wine country, and we basically just make our way south, down, you know, right down the country, and we finish in um Putmont.

unknown: 3:10:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_16: 3:10:10

Amazing. 26 days? Yeah, I mean incredible.

SPEAKER_05: 3:10:13

Actually, all our trips are like that. Well, one we have a short one. I've just finished in Croatia. We we ride from Venice to Dubrovnik, and that's 17 days, but that's our shortest. Um, I think our longest is probably Othello. We follow the Moors through um we start in Marrakesh in Morocco, and we go through Morocco, Spain, and Portugal, ending up in Porto, and that's 34 days. Unbelievable. So it's long trips, but most of our clients are Australian and we live far away, right?

SPEAKER_16: 3:10:39

Of course.

SPEAKER_05: 3:10:40

So if we travel, we want to travel for a good amount of time.

SPEAKER_16: 3:10:43

Yeah, that was my experience when I first started working at Lonely Planet and living in Australia, is that people were going away for a month, and I've never heard of anything like that before. Like, you know, a week is very standard, two weeks is exceptional in North America. A month is unheard of. Like you're taking a leave of absence if you're going for a month. But Australians, as you rightly point out, it's so far to leave that if you're gonna go, you may as well go for an extended period of time. And it is very common for people to take four weeks leave. But uh just curious, with people taking those extended trips, are many of your guests retirees or many of them young uh are professionals? I know they're Australian, but tell us a little bit more about the type of people that take your trips.

SPEAKER_05: 3:11:19

Sure, yeah. And you pretty much have your dear on the head. Most of our clientele uh retirees, so they've got the time on their hands. And I tell you, they just ride every day. They are so fit. I'm always chasing down the 70-year-old. It's just so inspiring. These people, they just retire and they just cycle, cycle, and it's a a very it's a it's a great um sport you can do forever. It's easy on your joints, it's very social. You always cycle and have coffee on the way. Um so yes, mostly people in their 50s, 60s, 70s, but actually it's getting younger. Um certainly over the last five years, and maybe it's a just a post-COVID thing, appreciating life and travel, but um even people in their 40s are coming with us now, which is you know, even couples with young families, maybe the um one of the parents come with us on a bike trip, and then you know, next time the other parent goes on a yoga retreat or something, you know, uh people seem to be appreciating um investing in themselves and their well-being, and active holidays is just I don't know, just is a great way to go. You come back, you know, having had a holiday and a break, but also you feel fitter and healthier, so it's a win-win.

SPEAKER_16: 3:12:25

No, and I I've can certainly speak to that firsthand from the group that we traveled with, which was amazing. But the uh several of the people that were there, they are I mean, they're very active cyclists, but I'll I'll give two sp examples. Todd, uh who is 65 and his partner's 69, and they travel, they they're avid cyclists and they're they're planning their next big trip. And so he was always at the front of the pack, incredibly fit, and he runs a bike touring company. So uh but another gentleman, Arnan, who was in his mid-50s, him and his wife are preparing for a big race, and so he was also at the front of the pack. And so people are living longer, they're looking for more active holidays, and this is a perfect way for the for people to be able to travel, experience new cultures, and so I've it's opened my eyes, I guess, Isabel, from um from this time last year in Panama when I started to better understand the incredible increase in people taking cycling trips. I now get it, so it's great to meet you here. But let's let's talk about what brings you to ATTA because I know this is your very first ATWS adventure travel world summit, but you've been involved with the ATTA community for a while. Um tell us about what brought you to Chile this year and what some of the highlights have been for you.

SPEAKER_05: 3:13:36

Um so my partner, Sam, he's been to the um summit uh a number of years, I don't know, maybe five or six times.

SPEAKER_16: 3:13:43

And it was finally your turn.

SPEAKER_05: 3:13:45

Wow, it was actually our turn last year. We're trying to come, but our little girl was crooked, really crooked, just before it, and we had to can it, which was such a shame. Um, this year, again, we're supposed to come together for the first time, and we had a a bike fallout in Japan, and so Sam had to fly there instead, which is you know the fallout when you own the company, you're always the backstop. So he he went there. Um so I'm here by myself and trying to muddle my way through this whole process. It's just it's just an incredible experience. I actually, you know, every time Sam came back over the last few years, um, come comes back with so much knowledge and connections, and and we see that benefits all throughout the year. You know, whenever things happen, we have a question about something, or you know, our newest trip is um following Alexander the Great through northern Greece into Turkey, and then we end up cycling to the pyramids in Cairo. But who on earth would we have as a tour operator in Cairo, you know, to help us? We didn't know where to start, and so of course, ATTA, you've got this, you know, a fabulous community of people which we can contact, and there's that base trust there already. So um, you know, we share information, especially the bike people here. I mean, I'm sure the other guys get together as well, but for for me, you know, we have a bike community here and um Maria, Eleanor, and Monica really run the show there and they get us together, and it's it's a great sharing of knowledge and support all throughout the year. If you know there's questions on our WhatsApp group about um anything from you know how we run receipts or how can we find guides or how do we manage e-bikes, and it's just a wonderful, wonderful, close community and very supportive. It's not in competition, it's just beautiful.

SPEAKER_16: 3:15:21

Well, and that's one thing I also uh come to understand in the last uh few days here at the conference, because we were speaking together on the last day of the conference, so we have our epic you know kind of wrap-up uh gathering tonight, and we'll find out officially where the next uh destination is. Although our listeners know and I can't say anything. So I do I do know Shannon was kind enough to reveal it on this episode because it's gonna uh well, the only commitment was it was an embargo to airing it after today. Um so our listeners are very excited about where that's gonna be, but I can't say anything right now. But the one thing I wanted to highlight that you just mentioned is that there's a subculture within the bike community that I've uh come to understand that uh over the last couple of days. So in the bike community, they get together, they learn from each other. Several of the people who are on the tour run different bike companies, and they learn from each other with itineraries and customer service and some of their marketing activity. And I think that's that that's something I would not have realized before. So obviously that's one of the benefits of uh of being here that your husband Sam has experienced, and now you get the chance firsthand to meet all these people. Um, has there been any other sessions or other uh standouts for you? Because I mean, there's I mean, obviously there's so many from us being here, but I was just curious for especially when it's your first time at ATWS, um, you know, the the size of the uh the delegation, which some people have commented to me, like, I cannot believe that there's this many people that have traveled here. But yeah, what have been some of the other uh highlights or standouts for you?

SPEAKER_05: 3:16:44

Gosh, um yeah, the size is amazing. You think, wow, all these people are investing, you know, in their companies and um coming to share, share this experience with each other. It's pretty inspiring. Um, and I love it that travel is such a um a passion. Like everyone you talk to here comes from somewhere they're proud of and they love to tell you about, and you just see you just realise that the world is, you know, whose bucket list isn't long, right? But since I've been here, it has just exploded into you know so many more places. Um But I just love the enthusiasm from everyone, everyone is excited to be here, everyone's um open to saying hello. You know, you're by the end of the day, your head's just exploding with meeting new people and you and and making connections. It's just a a lovely atmosphere.

SPEAKER_16: 3:17:32

Yeah, I just want to second that because the sessions I've been involved in, I moderated a session and I only mentioned that because the panelists were so amazing, and this lady Julie, who come who traveled all the way from Fiji to be here, and she was so inspiring, she welled up towards the end. You could just see the emotion in the audience, and there are so many smaller operators here and that have overcome challenges and they get so much benefit from being here, and it's just such a supportive and welcoming community. That was like my big takeaway last year because I thought, okay, adventure it's gonna be more hardcore, and everyone else seems to know each other, and I'm gonna be that kid on the bus at high school, and it's like instantly people are take a seat next to me, keen to know you, and and so that was one of the things that that stood out to me. But I guess you're leaving here with lots of new contacts, and uh hopefully you're gonna be back when when it gets announced.

SPEAKER_17: 3:18:21

Obviously, hopefully you and Sam can be in ATWS, it can be in next year.

SPEAKER_16: 3:18:29

Yes, and I the one thing I can say for sure is it's great cycling there. So fantastic.

SPEAKER_18: 3:18:34

I've said to some of my colleagues that if it ends up being where I think it is, then uh you can come and visit me and um and then we can ride there together. But that's the only that's the closest I'm gonna give you. I'm like, yeah.

SPEAKER_16: 3:18:45

Um but t tell us a little bit what's uh what's head ahead for you guys in 2026? Are you guys gonna open up some new destinations? Are you guys well, yeah, what how is your business growing and evolving?

SPEAKER_05: 3:18:55

So we create um one new Odyssey every year. They're huge trips, right? They're a month long generally, and they take a ginormous amount of organization. Um this year our new trip was Japan, Fukuoka to Mount Fuji, and it's perfect timing for that. 26 day. Yeah, Aussies love Japan. Um and we don't just take Aussies, um, anyone's welcome, of course. We have um a few Americans, a few Canadians, a few Kiwis, which is lovely, and the odd person you know from UK maybe, but um, but mostly Aussies, and they do love Japan. And I I actually have met some fabulous people from Japan here, and so we're thinking of doing another Japanese Odyssey sometime as well to incorporate other islands. But um last year a new one was Vikings, Denmark and Norway.

SPEAKER_16: 3:19:41

Yeah, that was another super popular destination, Scandinavia and Japan, those are the two standout destinations for travellers that are just there's uh people can't seem to get enough of those two destinations.

SPEAKER_05: 3:19:51

Yeah, they're they're super gorgeous. Yeah. So Vikings in Norway and um Shogun is who we follow, the Shogun in in Japan. Um 2026 is actually the first um, if you like, rest year we've ever had. All our tours are booked, but um we haven't got a new one. And we just did that because our our next one in 2027, Alexander the Great, from Thessaloniki to Cairo, is um just so logistical, it's not funny. So we're giving ourselves a bit of extra time. So that will launch in 27.

SPEAKER_16: 3:20:21

Oh my god, that sounds epic. I think I need to do that. I think I think I have to like be the the l the lone Canadian amongst the Aussies that are.

SPEAKER_05: 3:20:28

Oh no, you won't be lone Canadian. There's some lovely canadians. Oh, fantastic, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_17: 3:20:31

And are e-bikes available on your tours?

SPEAKER_05: 3:20:33

100%. They are fabulous. And they open up our trips to so many more people, especially couples that one's a keen cyclist, one's not, but they can do this holiday together and it's it's wonderful. And they don't cycle together during the day. You you always find different people to cycle with. We have we take a maximum of 24 people, so it's big enough to find, you know, people that always cycle at your at your pace. But um, yeah, e-bucks are welcome and we we love it. Oh, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_16: 3:20:58

I'm gonna have to try and convince my wife of this. That's one of my I've already told her what an amazing time I've had. I'm like, we have to do a cycling trip, and now you've but people have been asking me, like, where are you gonna go next? And I now need to do more research. So I've been asking people like, where would you suggest we go next? And clearly a lot of people highlight Europe, of course, for in the right reasons. But I loved uh riding in Chile, and I could imagine going to New Zealand. That's like a New Zealand is gorgeous. Yeah, I'd love to go back to New Zealand.

SPEAKER_05: 3:21:23

Mountain biking in New Zealand is just uh fabulous.

SPEAKER_16: 3:21:26

Yeah. Oh, that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_05: 3:21:27

Well, yeah, there's so many pla great places to circle in the world.

SPEAKER_16: 3:21:30

What about you and your husband? Like outside of the trips you're running, I'm sure you guys are avid travelers as well. I know you've got a young family, so obviously that um but is there any places that you guys actually, just the two of you, are keen to go out and explore? And and also when I asked that question, like when you guys are, especially your husband as an archaeologist, like when you guys are doing research on a destination, especially this big trip, would you have to go there before and and start cycle some of the routes? Like, yeah, it's yes.

SPEAKER_05: 3:21:55

So basically come up with an idea and plan it, you know, with Google Maps essentially, we just go, this is where we'd love to go. Yeah, and then we take the family, got two kids, 13-year-old Annie, 16-year-old Jack, and we take them, we've dragged them around the world, you know, for most of their lives, unfortunately. Um I think maybe they didn't appreciate it so much in the early days, but they certainly do now, and they're um they're avid travellers and they love geography now and history and um and languages, so that's been a very nice byproduct. But um, yeah, we essentially risked the family before we risk the guests, right? We just took them to Cairo last year and uh no, sorry, earlier this year. And um actually we went to Turkey and and tried these goulette boats that we use for another trip, but just to make sure that route worked, and that was just fabulous, I tell you. So staying on a goulette boat, Turkish goulette boat, for a week and just jumping off, riding along an island, and it sails along and meets you the other end of the island is just a spectacular way to like to find it. But then we talked to the car, and that was, you know, you know, just as you imagine. But who doesn't want to cycle up to a pyramid? I mean, it was just fabulous. And essentially we take the kids there and see how it feels to be there, to travel in these places, and really we go more and more towards um traveling in places that um maybe I guess wouldn't go by themselves, but they would come with a uh someone that they trust. And we love it that people trust what we do. We announced it to Alexander um six months ago and on the spot had four trips sold out for 2027. I mean, we don't get the money yet, but you know, just saying they want to go, and it's wonderful because it gives us that l leeway to go, yep, cool, we'll invest in it and we work towards it for two years, and you know, 80 months out we'll have a full itinerary and dates and costs and off we go. It's just great fun.

SPEAKER_16: 3:23:49

Yeah, that's fantastic. I am like um yeah, I'm in awe. Like the the more you talk about your business, it's just like the it just shows how much not only I have to learn, but also I'm sure many of our listeners feel the same way. The fact that, you know, these are the the types of itineraries you build, the the connection with your husband and his background, what goes into planning some of these trips.

SPEAKER_05: 3:24:08

And you don't want to know.

SPEAKER_16: 3:24:09

Yeah, well, just the fact it's like it's two years in the making, you're planning for 2027. It's like um yeah, I'm I'm so intrigued. I want to make sure all of our listeners, uh whether they're customers that might actually consider uh booking one of your biking tours, but also partners, since our podcast is overwhelmingly B2B that might be interested in in partnering with you in some way. And um, so I'd love to make sure that everyone can find out more information about you and the business. So where should they go?

SPEAKER_05: 3:24:36

Uh our website is www.bikeodyssey.cc. Everyone questions that, but it's Sakin Club.

SPEAKER_17: 3:24:44

Ah, I like it. Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_05: 3:24:46

And all our contact details are on there. Isabel and Sam, we own the business and yeah, happy to chat anytime.

SPEAKER_16: 3:24:52

That's awesome. Well, this has been a real highlight. I think one of the yeah, Isabel had kindly reached out to me about uh connecting while I was here. She wasn't sure if we were gonna actually do a podcast. This is the first time that she's done a podcast, and obviously it's been a fantastic discussion interview, so like you're a natural. But the other thing I wanted to say too is that the fact that at an event like this, you'd reached out to me, and I believe if correct me if I'm wrong, um some of the uh remind oh, actually remind of our listeners of how you the uh it came about in the first place that you reached out.

SPEAKER_05: 3:25:19

Nora Quintus, uh lovely friend of ours, recommended we meet with you here.

SPEAKER_16: 3:25:24

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_05: 3:25:24

She's obviously a big fan.

SPEAKER_16: 3:25:26

Yeah, no, and that's what that's so that that means the world to me, and that's why I wanted to make sure that we acknowledged her uh for connecting us. But then the amazing part was the fact that we literally sat down in a tent, like looking for there was a bit of rain coming down. We there was a tent, and we both sat down. You said, Can I sit here? And then we had that moment where we're like, wait, you're Dan, you're Isabel, and I'm like, I'm meeting with you on Thursday, and here we are. It was just like it was so serendipitous, yeah, but it was like for me, it also highlights the magic of a conference like this.

SPEAKER_05: 3:25:52

Absolutely, and to be fair, that that was the um the kind of the the story of this week. You know, it was the opening ceremony, uh my first time here, I didn't know anyone, and it was slightly drizzling, so I went to find a seat on a hay bale under a tent, and Dan, you and I just went to sit at the same hay bale, and in normal circumstances, you you might easily just go, oh sorry, and just walk away, right? But you know, I just said, Well, shall we both sit here? Sure. And we just sat and chatted, and it wasn't for another 20 minutes we realized to each other work, realised we had a meeting set up, and I just thought this is just beautiful. I love it that this atmosphere makes these um friendships happen. It's wonderful.

SPEAKER_16: 3:26:29

I couldn't agree more. So, no, a real pleasure to meet you, Isabel. I look forward to meeting Sam next year in the next destination, and uh and certainly keeping in touch with you, and I'm sure many of our listeners will reach out. So thanks again.

SPEAKER_05: 3:26:39

Well, I look forward to seeing you on a bike trip sometime.

SPEAKER_16: 3:26:41

Sounds great in Australia or elsewhere in the world for sure.

SPEAKER_05: 3:26:44

Fabulous. Thanks, Dan.

SPEAKER_16: 3:26:47

I now have the opportunity to speak to the person that is responsible for Travel Trends being here. He's my good friend, Shannon Stoll. I think everybody knows who Shannon is on our podcast. But Shannon, thanks so much for joining us and thanks for the opportunity for us to be here.

SPEAKER_13: 3:27:01

Uh, I'm so happy you're here, Dan. Thanks for thanks for saying yes and flying to the end of the world.

SPEAKER_16: 3:27:06

Uh it was quite a journey to get here, but I mean it's so worth it. This is, I mean, it was four flights and an overnight hotel stay, and like it was like, but it was all worth it. I realized just how remote this region is, but just how special it is, and partly for that, for that reason. And our listeners just heard from two of the most extraordinary people that are here at the conference. And obviously, uh, Christine is so incredibly uh smart, talented, and just uh so inspiring. And I saw her on the main stage on the first day, and clearly she's an American that moved down to Chile, and everyone heard her story, both from Carolina's perspective, and then also hearing her voice as well. And so this is like perfect to segue from the two of them to speaking to you, but man oh man, what an incredible destination! And bringing them in to be part of this, that was so special. So I want to ask you, Shannon, what brings us to Chile and how did you get them to be a part of it?

SPEAKER_13: 3:28:02

Well, this is um this is one of four destinations that we've done summits twice in in our 20 years. So Chile, uh, we were here in Puerto Varas back in 2015. And so Chile's just been a long-term committed member of ATTA. Years ago, they said, hey, we would like to to have a second summit in Chile, but in a different, a different location. So we're about 2,000 kilometers south from the last event that we did here. And you know, Chile is just a no-brainer for the adventure travel community. Patagonia is on everybody's bucket list, or as I like to call it, the life list. Um and so partially because it's the exact right location, partially because Chile is such an incredible partner, we're here again.

SPEAKER_16: 3:28:50

Amazing. Well, one of the things that's unique and special about the Adventure Travel and Trade Association that I, you know, I had the privilege to be in Panama last year, but I didn't do what they refer to as a PSA, which is a pre-summit adventure. And this year I did, and Shannon made sure that that was possible, and I'm so glad that I did. I've mentioned on our weekly podcast already, I went cycling for five days with this company called Ciclo Austral, that it was a husband and wife, Fernando and Claudia. And I did a trip that I never would have done had I not been to ATTA last year and interviewed a number of the operators that are here that told me just how much growth and success they were having with cycling trips, especially because they now have the option for e-bikes. Couples that wouldn't otherwise go together because one of them might be a cyclist, the other one might be as keen. And also with e-bikes, it opens up all sorts of new itineraries. So I was the only one man enough to do an e-bike on this trip, but it was because there was a lot of other hardcore enthusiasts. But I'm so glad that I did that couple made sure that I had the most incredible time and that I finished every leg of each of the uh the races each day, if you will. I made sure that like with because if I was concerned it was gonna be like the Tour de France. And it wasn't. It was like, you know, the scenery and the way to experience it. Like I found it so exhilarating to get that fresh mountain air in my face for 60 kilometers every day. I felt so wonderful at the at the end of every day. It's unlike any trip I've ever done, which is definitely a combination of the location, the scenery, the people, and cycling. So that was my PSA experience, but I know you did a PSA as well. So tell us about your experience, Janet.

SPEAKER_13: 3:30:26

I will, but when you mentioned Tour de France, I think what this uh what your experience should have been called is the Chile de Chile. Right?

SPEAKER_18: 3:30:34

Did you hear that, Claudia and Fernando? I think you've got a new title for that itinerary. Well, actually, it would definitely attract more people because I think this is one of the things.

SPEAKER_16: 3:30:42

You wouldn't um more people out there like me would benefit from this opportunity and wouldn't otherwise think they were up for a cycling tour. So for sure. Um but yeah, tell us about your camp.

SPEAKER_13: 3:30:53

Well, um, you know, I always uh wait when the when the pre-summit adventures go live. I wait a few weeks to make sure that the buyers and the media that put so much effort into telling the stores and selling the destination that they get first shot at it. But after a couple of weeks, then it's fair game for some of us on the team once in a while. And so this year I I anxiously awaited when I saw Rapa Nui or Easter Island come live as one of the adventures. And so I waited, I think, 10 days, 14 days, and then I asked the team, hey, is there still a spot on there? And and sure enough, there was. So I grabbed it and um wow, it was mind-blowing. And one of the one of the people in our in our group admitted he they said, uh, I I thought Rapanui was like probably a 20, 30 minute boat ride from Santiago. I had no idea it was a five and a half hour one-way flight.

SPEAKER_19: 3:31:45

Exactly.

SPEAKER_13: 3:31:46

It is way out there.

SPEAKER_19: 3:31:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_13: 3:31:48

But I think I think what really intrigued me, and I was trying to think about you know where the roots of this came from, and I really I'm pretty certain that it was because my parents subscribed to National Geographic magazine when I was a kid, and I devoured them. And uh, I'm certain that's where I saw the first uh images of the Moai of Rapa Nui, the big stone heads that are so so world-known and unique only to Rapa Nui. So uh chose that one, and it was mostly hiking and walking in cultural sites. Uh the day before I took off, I rolled my ankle super badly, so badly I almost couldn't walk. Oh no. Had to go to an emergency room, got an air cast, and managed to keep my.

SPEAKER_16: 3:32:31

Oh my god, you don't have it on now. I do. Oh my god, I can't even I didn't even realize it well.

SPEAKER_13: 3:32:35

I hide it well. Well, I now I'm like eight days out from the injury, but um I I thought it was gonna end my trip, but it it ended up being absolutely incredible. Just an amazing operator.

SPEAKER_16: 3:32:46

Tell us a little bit about so for me, I've never been to Easter Island. I'm obviously familiar with it. I've seen documentaries, and um I so I'm intrigued. It's a place I would love to go at some point. But tell us a little bit about those rock formations because I have you obviously have now just come off of this trip, and many people are going to be intrigued about Chile from our series and Easter Island. Easter Island is like one of those, it's like the Galapagos is to Ecuador, of course, right? Right. Um, that people want to go and then they don't realize how far offshore it is. And clearly, if you want to come to Chile, you need to do both, and you're getting the chance to do both. But tell everyone about Easter Island, a little bit more context, and specifically those monuments that face out to sea.

SPEAKER_13: 3:33:23

Well, I I definitely don't want to appear like an expert, and uh all apologies to my amazing guide Elena, who is just full of knowledge and delight and wisdom, and she, you know, she was uh she had to put up with us for for three days, um, which which makes her a national hero. But the um yeah, the Moai, there's 900 of those stone heads on the island. And I think if I get this right, there's 300 that never left the quarry, and for whatever reason. So one one of the one of the reasons would have been if a family or a clan commissioned the carvers to carve a stone, c carve a head, they needed to pay them with food. And so if the food stopped, the carving stopped. If there was a battle between between clans, the carving stopped. So there's 300 that never left the quarry area. Wow. And that is a mind-blowing thing to see. The biggest one is still there, partially in the ground, not fully carved out, and it's uh I think it's 10 meters, 10 meters high. Yeah. That is a lot of rock. That is a lot of rock.

SPEAKER_16: 3:34:27

And have they worked out how they got there?

SPEAKER_13: 3:34:30

So you mean how they move them around? Exactly, yeah. So the there's all kinds of theories, and and what you know, the one that's kind of grabbed the most attention is the ropes and making it walk. So it kind of twist and twisting back and forth. Some some folks have uh uh have reproduced this in modern times, but they've never done it for the really big ones. So some of the Moai, the really old ones, are you know six feet tall. And then the the later ones are much, much bigger. So there's still there's still mystery, which I that's what makes it so cool, is there's still question marks all over that island.

SPEAKER_16: 3:35:06

Yeah, that's why I asked, because I mean so much of travel for us is the wonder, the awe, the mystery. And even one of the topics that we talk about and clearly is here at the conference as well, is AI, and here we are in this realm of the next big technological leap, but we still can't work out like the pyramids and how they move stones and Stonehenge, and um, and obviously Easter Island is one of those like wonderful mysteries that humans were able to create these and move them around, and we still can't in modern times figure out how it happened.

SPEAKER_13: 3:35:33

My uncle sent me an article knowing that I was here, basically saying, why do we always assume that primitive people were somehow behind us?

SPEAKER_16: 3:35:41

Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

SPEAKER_13: 3:35:42

They just lived in a different environment entirely.

SPEAKER_16: 3:35:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_13: 3:35:45

They were brilliant.

SPEAKER_16: 3:35:46

And that's one of the things that stood out to me about Chile is the indigenous community and how integrated uh they are in society, but also in the activities we've seen in some of the uh when we had gone to a Patagonian barbecue and a uh we got to experience what someone referred to as the Patagonian polka and the music that they performed, uh, the one gentleman like is uh many generations indigenous from that community, and everyone blends together so well. And it's one of the things, you know, here at the conference, you certainly bring an international audience together, you bring a diverse community from around Chile. You you mentioned, Shannon, of course, that you've been here before. Um, but coming back here this year, what were one of the drivers for you to come back uh to Chile? And what's been so special, uh, PSA aside for a moment, about the event that you've put together this year, the speakers, the content. Like for me, it is like it truly is adventure travel. Walking around this town and seeing Patagonia and the store, I'm just like, this is adventure, this is ATTA. So for me, it just feels perfect. Um, but yeah, tell us what ultimately brought you guys back.

SPEAKER_13: 3:36:50

Well, you know you're in a in an adventure destination when you can't tell if people are delegates to adventure travel world summit or locals. And I'm not kidding. Um, but no, I mean, I I you know I mentioned the fact that the the government of Chile has been incredibly supportive of us, but also the tour operators. You know, there's so many Chilean tour operators that have been a deep part of the ATTA community that show up everywhere, all over the globe, wherever we put on events, there they are. And I I got a a text from one yesterday saying uh at the first Adventure Travel World Summit, my bike fleet was 15 bikes. Now it's more than 250. In 2015, my one my annual revenue is equal to one month's revenue now. And he said the ATTA community is the reason for that.

SPEAKER_16: 3:37:37

That's amazing. And I mean, that is truly getting the money in the hands of the right people and making a meaningful difference to their lives, lifting people up and giving people opportunity. And the other aspect that I wanted to highlight too from our previous conversations, because of course many of our listeners also know Shannon from our adventure series. He was uh the incredible speaker that led off our adventure series last year, and then him and I kicked off a series. We did one on sustainability uh with Tourism Cares with um Greg Takahara, uh, which was a fantastic episode. And one of the big focuses here, and what people just heard from our conversation with Christine and Carolina, is preservation and conservation and the importance of that in the community. Right. And so I was asking them about Touras Delpine, the place we went on the opening night, that it was like a two-hour bus ride and well worth it because the destination is so spectacular. And so that's obviously, you know, there is adventure, but there is conservation and sustainability at the forefront. Everyone here believes it because clearly they've they've grown up with this and they want to protect this for future generations. And as they the tourism economy starts to really boom here, like you can see, or my senses, this, especially in Patagonia, it's taking off. The number of new hotels that are being built and hostels, like the capacity is just increasing, but everybody seems very conscientious of doing it the right way. So, how did that play into the decision to be here and some of the not only PSAs, but also some of the sessions you guys have been running, given the importance of that for all the operators?

SPEAKER_13: 3:39:05

Oh, yeah, we we we wouldn't even consider a destination that's not committed to sustainability. And you know, sustainability and the desire for it comes from a lot of different directions. Um I don't know if you know this, but many, many years ago, a a huge part of the Torres Del Pine Park burnt because of a tourist starting a fire.

SPEAKER_16: 3:39:26

Come on.

SPEAKER_13: 3:39:26

Yeah, come on. This is why well and was he from California?

SPEAKER_18: 3:39:30

Did he also uh wasn't the at the LA fires? They caught that guy. No, he might have a rap sheet, we don't know.

SPEAKER_13: 3:39:36

They they did catch the people. I I won't say where they're from, but uh to to pretty uh keep keep international peace. But that's why I don't know if you noticed when our buses rolled in the other day, and uh this is a story I was told ten years ago at the summit. When our buses rolled into the park the other day, they said no litter and no fires. And right? So conservation sometimes is is learned and earned through hard experiences. And so uh hearing the story of how the park got formed, it was a German immigrant who came in and just said there should be something, there's something in the US like this, like Yellowstone, we should be doing that here. It took, I think, 30, 40, or 50 years to get that set up. Um, and it finally happened in the 70s, and now you've got this absolutely stunning national park. So as far as conservation, preservation, it's it's just so woven into our community. In fact, we did a survey early this year, and one of the things our our audience said is we don't need to hear from the ATTA as much about sustainability. Not because it doesn't matter, but we're already doing it.

SPEAKER_16: 3:40:40

Yeah. Yeah, that's a great way to put it. I mean, and clearly it is it's paramount, it's top of mind, but it is just woven into the community. It's a core value to being a part of ATTA. And that the other thing I wanted to highlight too, and this is where uh, as people heard from Christine, actually, after we finished recording that interview that everyone just heard, we were talking about some of their new national parks or some of the new parks that are becoming national parks. And I was just keen to understand more about this because I found it so fascinating. And she mentioned Yellowstone, to your point there, as being a model that has kind of served as guidance to people buying up land and then handing it over to the government to be able to manage and turn it into a national park. And so it is this incredible combination of um private and public uh collaborating in the right way. And one of the things I love about ATTA, and I think this comes back to many of the conversations I have with people, is that they're running for-profit businesses, but they want to do it in the right way. And so you are it and and and the other thing I really want to get your take on this because you were so awesome on stage, is that on the uh at Torres Delpine, uh, I went into the tent. And so there was a bit of rain coming down, but it didn't affect anything because there were so cool, so many cool things happening outside, the horses and lighting the fires and like the lamb. And definitely, if you haven't looked at my at DC Trips Instagram or look at the Adventure Travel and Trade Association uh Instagram account to see some of these highlights, um, but we went into the tent and there was a band that people were buzzing about, yeah, uh, Las Javas. And I had no idea what I was in store for, but you came on stage and got your rock and roll moment to like introduce these guys.

SPEAKER_18: 3:42:18

And I was trying to figure out like, what's the comparison?

SPEAKER_16: 3:42:20

I'm like, are they like the Chilean Beatles? Are they like the Chilean Coldplay? And it turns out like they're like the Chilean Grateful Dead.

SPEAKER_13: 3:42:26

I heard Pink Floyd.

SPEAKER_16: 3:42:27

Pink Floyd, yeah, that's another yeah, that's but the Chileans here were so excited that this band that's been around for 30 plus years and is like the biggest band from Chile came to perform for us.

SPEAKER_13: 3:42:39

Yeah, a little group of 600. The whole the whole p audience wasn't there, so it was probably 600 people. Um, intimate, in a tent, in the rain, under Torstel Pineate, with barbecues and horses. It uh and we didn't barbecue horses, there were barbecues and horses.

SPEAKER_18: 3:42:56

Let's be clear. We're barbecuing the lamb.

SPEAKER_13: 3:42:58

The poor people it was it was just unbelievable. I did feel sorry for a small group of people. Our poor friends from Fiji were freezing. We we made sure they all had the the new blue ATTA uh winter hat to try to warm up a little bit.

SPEAKER_18: 3:43:16

I'll be sure to ask Jenny about that because she's on my panel later today. She's part of this.

SPEAKER_13: 3:43:19

Yeah, Jenny, yes, she's she's gonna confirm this.

SPEAKER_16: 3:43:22

But yeah, tell us how you got a band like so this is where like the combination. I was my um connection there is the fact that like for-profit, you you know, you need to entertain people at the same time. You have to find that balance where it can't all be about sustainability. It's a combination of all these things. Um, it's the food, it's the cuisine, it's the culture, and then the music. So, like, how did that even come about that you guys were able to land the biggest band in Chile to like give this what I would consider to be like a surprise performance to a very small crowd that was truly epic? Uh, how do how do you how does that how did that come about, Janet?

SPEAKER_13: 3:43:54

Well, I don't know all the all the backroom details, to be honest, but what I do know uh is is what probably played into it is that when you've got companies in a destination who are really in our community, they know what's gonna blow everyone else's minds because it's their friends.

SPEAKER_19: 3:44:13

Right.

SPEAKER_13: 3:44:13

And so we we you know we've met, we've had so many Chilean close friends, tour operators, and uh over the years, and then so that those are the folks who are able to speak upward into the government. Sometimes it's the government people themselves who have been to many many ATTA events, and they'll be like, Oh my gosh, if we could only pull this off, it would be absolutely perfect for this audience. And so it's about knowing the community. And in fact, today we met with a a destination that's going to be announced tomorrow. And um, one of the people who had been to our events before brought the big boss in and said, You have to come see this in person to understand it.

SPEAKER_16: 3:44:51

That's really cool. I'm excited to hear about that tomorrow. I guess that's where it's um we're sitting here in this box setup, and again, you see some of the photos. It's actually a really cool setup. And I it's like a big arena. There's multiple different venues, but we're sitting in front of the main arena. Shannon and I are looking down over the floor, and it's like we're scoring uh in the box for like a game. Um, and that we're you know, we're up here like uh color commentating. But the um the sessions I've attended so far have also been really fascinating. There was a content creator session run by Nina a little bit earlier today that I found really interesting. Tell us a little bit about the content and the speakers that you brought together for this year's event and what some of the highlights or standouts that have been for you so far.

SPEAKER_13: 3:45:33

Yeah, well, we we always try to have it be a real mix of practical so you can take home something uh for your business, for your life, and then inspirational. So it's really a mix of inspiration and education. And sometimes the two do meet. Um, but really what what we do is we listen to the community. We're like, what what do you need to know about? Well, AI, definitely AI, uh, other technologies, you know, what how are trends changing? What what's at risk? What what uh do we think the future looks like for adventure travel and booking it online and you know what what are those threats and what are those opportunities? And so we go out to our our community, we double check it with people like ambassadors and folks on our board and our team, and then uh and then we we come bring it all together. And so Chris Tompkins, for example, is an obvious, you know, her her late husband Doug spoke at the event ten years ago.

SPEAKER_16: 3:46:28

Oh, I didn't realize that. Yeah, yeah. Because he would have died, it would have been shortly he passed away shortly after.

SPEAKER_13: 3:46:34

Yeah, it was a few months after, very tragic. And um, but we stayed in in touch and Chris and I actually did a did a um online fireside chat during COVID. Oh cool as one of the one in our series to try to keep our community's spirits void.

SPEAKER_19: 3:46:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_13: 3:46:50

Um, and then of course, uh I I could name a lot of amazing speakers, but Elizabeth Becker was also here 10 years ago. Uh she she spoke at that time about overbooked her book about tourism and kind of good and bad examples of tourism around the world. And she's just a fearless advocate for things done right.

SPEAKER_08: 3:47:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_13: 3:47:09

Uh in fact, when we first called her, she goes, you know, I'm not always nice to the tourism industry. And I was like, Great, bring it on. We'll take it.

SPEAKER_16: 3:47:17

Well, on one of the opening sessions, I want to highlight this too, because it was like star-studded. You had Arnie Weissman moderating a panel. Arnie's been on our Travel Trends podcast. We did a standalone episode with Arnie, and I he's one of those people in the industry that just have such a huge respect for. He's like the largest voice to the American trade community. I introduced him somewhat earlier today because they actually asked to interview me, and I'm like, actually, you need to interview Arnie. This is the person I need to know. And um, and so legend. Absolute legend. He moderated a panel. And who did you have on there? You had Heidi from EF, who gave one of them Heidi Durflinger, the CEO of EF World Journeys USA. She is uh just recently on our podcast because of ATTA. I had a chance to see her give a the amazing keynote in Denver. And she just killed it. She was so good on stage and clearly a captain of industry. So we had her on the series, but then you also had uh Alex Narcott. Alex Narcott from Much Better Adventures. Yeah. And I was like, oh my, that's a panel you need to see to kick things off. I'm like, you don't see that elsewhere. You don't see those two people on stage with Arnie talking about multi-day tours and like the adventure travel. So yeah, that was a big highlight for me.

SPEAKER_13: 3:48:20

That was a lot of firepower in one stage at one time. Totally, yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_16: 3:48:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_13: 3:48:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_16: 3:48:25

Well, for those people who don't know, like, I mean, there clearly we're reaching people with this podcast that are connected to ATTA. This is our, you know, I'm very honored to be the official podcast partner with ATTA. So I know many of you listening to this are part of the ATTA community. And I appreciate you tuning in for our travel trends podcast and all of our global travel trends podcast listeners. I really want to make sure you learn more about ATTA and get involved because I was shocked that it has taken me this long uh to get to an ATTA event. I mean, it was last year. It's been exactly 12 months. Since then, I've been, you know, this is my third event. And the number of people I've spoken to here that have been to so many other events, they've been to like four or five of your regional events, they've been to elevates, but they've not been to an adventure travel world summit before. And like you've seen people like, this is my tenth year, and other people like this is my fourth, other people, this is my first. And it's just like it buzzes with excitement. So tell us a little bit about people getting involved in the ATTA community.

SPEAKER_13: 3:49:20

Yeah, you know, um, I think well, I'm and I'm gonna be writing an essay on this, but it's gonna be called Join or Die. And it and it's it comes from a Benjamin. Two stark options there. Yeah, it comes from a Ben Franklin uh conversation back in the American Revolution where he said, we're either gonna hang together or we're all gonna hang separately. And the point was, you know, we are facing some really hard times in the travel industry and the geopolitical world. And so this the whole point of this essay is gonna be to say we need to hang together, be close together during this time so that we are not divided, um, because division is such a problem right now. So I encourage companies and and organizations to join ATTA if you have any interest in the active adventure, culture, nature, you know, this is this is the part of the travel industry that will welcome you with open arms. And like one of our uh three three-time speakers, Thornton May, who's a uh futurist, years ago, he said, your network will keep you safe. And so we really saw that during the pandemic, that with few exceptions, people treated each other, you know, even in really dire business circumstances, took care of each other, protected each other. And and I feel like that is so important right now when conservation is at risk, you know, poverty in rural communities that were being served by USAID and adventure travel projects. You know, there's just a lot facing us right now.

SPEAKER_16: 3:50:51

Well, the thing that amazed me when we were together in Denver was that half of the attendees came from outside the US, and many of them clearly had their reservations about traveling to the U.S. I think most of our listeners do know that U.S. international travel is down about 10%. That's six million travelers that have decided not to travel to the U.S. this past year. Uh, but yet your numbers were up and they were up. And I spoke to a number of people and they said, I have my reservations about traveling to the US for these geopolitical reasons, but I'm here to support ATTA in this community. So your point, I mean, it's uh resounding in the room that people want to be together, they want to be connected. You've got incredible turnout here in Chile for such a you know a far destination to travel to, which again, I think is is part of the beauty and ultimately the appeal, but it also requires a commitment, even in my case, you know, being away for two weeks, which I mean, realistically, there's no place I'd rather be. But at the same time, it's an extended period of time to be away from anyone from their business obligations, so they have to make a real commitment to being here. And um, and so when we look forward, and this is the part that I'm so looking at. So tomorrow's the last day of the conference, and one of the cool things I experienced last year is you guys announced the next destination. I don't know you can't reveal it yet, but by the time people are listening to this, they're gonna know.

SPEAKER_18: 3:52:03

I have some I have a bit of an inkling, and I'm really hoping I'm right, but I don't have um, but is there anything you can tell us now about where ATTA is headed in 2026?

SPEAKER_13: 3:52:16

Only with a uh ironclad promise you won't release this before tomorrow.

SPEAKER_16: 3:52:21

Okay, and in that case, you you have my word. You have my absolute word, and our listeners are gonna hear this because it will likely will have aired uh a week or two after the event. Yes, and so um, so yeah, you have my absolute promise, and the rest of these recordings, uh the listeners now you're gonna know, but every conversation you're gonna hear on this podcast, no one else is gonna have any idea. Right.

SPEAKER_13: 3:52:40

You're sort of hearing sort of hearing at first, and yet you're not hearing it first. Exactly. So we're we'll be in Quebec, Canada. Amazing, and it will be absolutely off the hook.

SPEAKER_16: 3:52:51

Oh my god, that's what I was hoping to hear. I saw there was a lot of people from Quebec here. I remember last year there was sort of a buzz that maybe it's gonna be in Quebec. And all I could think was like, how cool would it be to go from Chile, like the end of the world and the south, all the way up to Canada and the north.

SPEAKER_13: 3:53:06

Well, and and not only that, Dan, it makes your country the first to hit three summits.

SPEAKER_16: 3:53:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_13: 3:53:11

Because we did Whistler and then Whistler in 07, Quebec in 09, and now Quebec again in 2026.

SPEAKER_16: 3:53:18

And when you say Quebec, are we saying uh Quebec City?

SPEAKER_13: 3:53:21

That's right. So that's a little last time we went to Charlebois, which was also incredible. And today I was at the destination panel and we were talking, the the folks from Quebec were talking about indigenous tourism, and I didn't get a chance to say anything, but I was like, you guys were on it in 2009. I remember shockingly um far away, small indigenous tourism operators coming in and being a part of the event, bringing their dog, their their dogs for the dog sleds, and everybody just ooing and awing over this amazing offering that you you couldn't even imagine existed until you met them.

SPEAKER_16: 3:53:57

That's so cool. Well, like the number of people on our trip were saying, Oh, I hope it's Quebec next year. I think there might, there's a chance it might be Quebec. There's already kind of a buzz building around it. And it thrilled me to no end, knowing that it'd be in Canada. And Quebec is such a special place within our country, uh, historically, linguistically, uh, and geographically, it has so much to offer, especially for adventure travel. And I had said to a few people, if it does, if that happens, come meet me in Toronto, we'll ride bikes.

SPEAKER_18: 3:54:21

Because now that I'm like we will cycle take, we will ride again. This group will ride again. We ride it on.

SPEAKER_13: 3:54:28

Well, I don't know if you know this, Dan, but we uh ATTA co-founded a an organization called Beyond Borders Travel Coalition. And it's about 10 associations in travel in Canada and the U.S. And our whole goal is to elevate the conversation above the horrible divisiveness that's coming from the U.S. right now.

SPEAKER_16: 3:54:47

Yeah, one thing I actually do know about that, because I actually I was thrilled that that initiative, and I've referenced it a number of times because one of the things that Shannon the team highlighted with that is that you know, here we are on opposite sides of the border, and the media plays different messages, and obviously so do the political parties. And one of the things that we've certainly seen in Canada, and I've spoken openly about this, is that the media has also made us fearful of traveling to the US. And there's many Americans I love traveling to the U.S. I've got so many great American friends, and so I try and get the signal from the noise, and what clearly Canadians are not traveling to the U.S. And some of that tariffs, concern about the economy, like there's there's validity to that. However, it gets amplified when you start hearing horror stories of people getting pulled over at the border. And one of the things your report identified is that there actually has not been an increase in the number. There's an increase in the number of media attention towards people who get detained at the border because there's a hyper-awareness, but the actual number is not substantially increased by any stretch.

SPEAKER_13: 3:55:48

No, no, and in fact, that plays out from one of our BBTC coalition members who takes bus bus tours across every day. Said we have had zero incidents. So even though there have been some, and you know, it doesn't matter how many there are, it's like high exposure. It's just terrifying to imagine that.

SPEAKER_19: 3:56:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_13: 3:56:07

And um, yeah, I think that what what our coalition and what our job is to do as travel people, travel professionals, is to elevate the conversation and remind everyone, including the common traveler, that we are not enemies, that we are friends, and we will we have been friends, we're gonna continue to be friends. I had to walk away from somebody in a parking lot the other day because they had a bumper sticker that said Nuke Canada. And I thought I I just cannot believe the depth to which some of this has gone. And so I feel very fiercely about it. And I think Canada did an amazing job with that ad of uh showing the the woman running the front desk at a hotel just completely welcoming an American who's very hesitant because he's like, ah, how am I gonna be treated? Yeah, it's a great campaign.

SPEAKER_16: 3:56:57

Well, there was um, I mean, there's so many stories of Americans coming up to Canada and in a breakfast restaurant, buying everyone breakfast and saying that I don't agree with the policies and just know I I love Canada. Yeah, and so there's these wonderful heartwarming stories, and this is where connecting on a on a human level, getting out of the geopolitical noise, and um that there are some really inspiring stories. And I think this is the we still need to travel, we need to cross borders. And I I'm so excited it's gonna be in Canada for all the Americans that are listening to this. Um, and I have mentioned this a few times on our podcast, is that you know, you are welcome in Canada, but also Americans are welcome internationally. That's one of the things that Americans have started to not travel internationally, and that frightens me because the concern that Americans are concerned about how they're gonna be received. And the reality is that, and you know this, and anyone pretty much in the travel industry knows the reality is they're gonna love to see you because you're 100%. Yeah, like it's like it's so don't there shouldn't be any hesitations. Right. Like keep traveling.

SPEAKER_13: 3:57:54

I agree.

SPEAKER_16: 3:57:54

Now tell us um just to just to finish off here, Shannon, in as far as uh the date for the event, um, do you have that officially locked down? And where can now people listening to this sign up to become a member of ATTA and plan to join? And you also have a lot of events happening between now and then. We should mention that too.

SPEAKER_13: 3:58:10

We we do, and and I and I I won't talk about those right now for a number of reasons. And I actually don't know the exact dates, but um you can go to adventure travel.biz and go to the events tab, and it will be there within probably 24 hours or so.

SPEAKER_16: 3:58:24

Amazing. That's fantastic. Well, Shannon, I can't thank you enough for bringing me in for our friendship, our partnership, all of our collaborations. I look forward to the next series of adventure episodes that we're gonna do together. I know you have a number of exciting ideas for guests and how we're gonna bring those together, so make sure that you look out for those. And uh good luck with the rest of the conference and everything uh planned for ATTA in the year ahead.

SPEAKER_13: 3:58:45

Thanks, Dan. Always a pleasure to be here, and you're such a bright light in this community. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_16: 3:58:50

Thanks, man. It means a lot. I now am thrilled to introduce someone that has made this trip so extraordinary. You've heard about her and her husband Fernando over the course of this event spotlight here from ATTA, and you've heard from uh Kayla, who was on our trip. You've also heard from Nina, and I finally have the opportunity to bring Claudia, who is the co-founder of Ciclo Austral. She's originally from Santiago, or actually another town, but we'll get into that. But she is she's a professor, she is so impressive, and she gave us the most incredible experience that I will never forget here in Chile of doing this five-day biking tour that not only was like, you know, it was beautiful, and we met some amazing people, but it was so much fun. And I think that was like it was like anyway. I've had so many wonderful highlights from that week, and I can't, I wanted to actually start by saying thank you. Like a sincere thank you for uh ensuring that I actually took the trip because I know I emailed you before because I was like, I don't think I can do this. You you emailed me back to reassure me. You're like, you can ride in the van some days, you can, and I didn't need To. Yeah. And then Fernando hung back with me on that first day when I, my fault, my battery ran down. That everyone heard that story from Nina as I was riding on power mode. And uh, but it was the start of what ended up being like a magical week. So, first thing I want to say, Claudia, is thank you for an amazing experience on this pre-trip uh PSA, as they call it. And um so and welcome to Travel Trends, your first podcast.

SPEAKER_07: 4:00:25

Yes, my first. No, and thanks to you because um it's important that the people are open to enjoy to experience the the carretera. Yes.

SPEAKER_16: 4:00:36

Yeah, no, and it's so let's let's tell everyone about what's first tell us everyone about the company first, Ciclo Austral. And so tell us a little bit how how this company started, uh, yourself and Fernando, because obviously you guys were into cycling, you're both professors, and so you had you know a certain amount of time of the year off. So this is my understanding. But yeah, tell us how you created this incredible cycling company.

SPEAKER_07: 4:00:57

Okay. Uh we were in the uh university at the time, and a professor asked us what we think is the most sustainable uh type of travel. And it was the bike, like the cyclotourism. So we um start planning to go to the Carretera Australia by bike, uh 45 days, 2000 kilometers. Wow. And when we went, we just uh found people from everywhere but not from Chile. Uh so we start thinking if what if uh we bring people here to know uh their own country, and in 2012 we did the first tour. Like uh with two 28 people, it was a little bit more. Wow, 28 people?

SPEAKER_16: 4:01:53

Yeah, I think we had 11 on our trip. I cannot imagine 28 people, but I guess you needed that number of people to start to have enough people.

SPEAKER_03: 4:02:00

This is like a test.

SPEAKER_16: 4:02:01

Yes, yeah, and those people that that first trip were they Chileans or were they inter international?

SPEAKER_07: 4:02:06

Mostly Chileans. Uh there was just one people from uh uh other country, it was Spain and uh all the others like Chilean people all in uh into the their bikes with penny, really heavy, really long days.

SPEAKER_16: 4:02:27

I couldn't even imagine. Well, even as you pointed out to me at the start of our trip, because you made some adjustments, and I know you lost a lot of sleep the week before because the weather was changing day by day, and you guys really pulled it off. But I know that our first day would have been a hundred kilometers, which I couldn't even imagine, but it was only 60. You guys like drove us a portion of the way. Um, tell us a little bit about this itinerary that you put together, because every other cyclist that night, and we had two pre-calls that you guys had kindly organized, and I quickly realized I was out of my depth, as you know, with the other people that were coming on this trip because they're avid cyclists, they were training, they had all the gear, they had a thousand questions for you, and that's when I was like, what have I got myself into? But one of the things I didn't realize was just um, and it was Steve on the very first night, talked about the fact that this has been a dream of his for many years to come and cycle in the ISIN region, and it's considered to be, and they've you've heard Kyla and now and Nina talk about the fact that it actually is a more challenging ride or an area to cycle. So I again I didn't even realize that was what I was signing myself up for either. But tell us how you decided to create these types of itineraries.

SPEAKER_07: 4:03:31

Um so the Carretera Stral is one of the most important roads for the cycloturist. Uh is one of the dreams of everyone that uh we are like traveling on the bikes. Uh but when we start traveling, uh we realized that we had these little towns like 60 kilometers from each other, and you can ride all all the way all the day uh and stay in one place uh with the accommodations, with the services. So the itinerary that we designed for for the PSA uh we wanted that you experience the Carretera Austral in different ways, like on the bike, on the water, with the kayaking, uh hiking. That we can do uh all that we can.

SPEAKER_16: 4:04:26

Well, the kayaking that was another day that I didn't think that I was going to be able to make that happen because I'm just not a kayaker. I've been twice and then uh neither of them have been. I did have a little bit of help though.

SPEAKER_18: 4:04:36

I just uh actually Claudia kindly offered to double with me, and I said to her, like, I don't want that for you. I'm like, that's not like I don't want you to have that experience.

SPEAKER_16: 4:04:45

Um but Todd, one of uh other one of the other guests on the trip, uh powered me along and like it went, but it was beautiful. I'm so glad that I went. But even the fact you were so reassuring to say, like, no, like you can't miss this. The marble caves were so beautiful and getting out on the water and seeing it at sunrise, like the timing of that, and I know some of our listeners may have seen my Instagram post, but the timing of like arriving in the dark, it's starting to get lighter out, and as soon as we uh took to the water, yeah, all of a sudden the sun just came over the mountain range, and it was like it was epically beautiful. It was just one of those moments that was just like, say, it was magical. There's no better way to describe this past week than than magical, and that was a huge highlight.

SPEAKER_07: 4:05:21

So no, and and it was um it's it's really good to do it on the sunrise, but normally the people just go on on the boat or uh and in the sunrise the uh the light uh and the colors of the lake is so different, so we try to do different.

SPEAKER_16: 4:05:41

Yeah. Uh tell us so your background too. I just want to make sure that everyone also understands like you're uh a professor. So tell us a little bit about and Fernando is as well, and I know he's focused on he did his master's in sustainability over in Japan a couple years ago, and you guys had traveled around there. Um tell us a little bit about what you teach, where you teach, and what you teach.

SPEAKER_07: 4:06:00

Okay, um I teach in two different universities. Uh I have two courses in Concepcion, it's in the middle of Chile, and I teach destination management and experience design, like in tourism. Obviously.

SPEAKER_03: 4:06:13

Perfect, yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 4:06:14

It's ecotourism the uh the topic, obviously. And we do also uh in Puerto Montt, that's really far away, yeah uh another course of uh is uh cyclotourism, but they're mostly operations of tourism.

SPEAKER_16: 4:06:32

And I know you love teaching. I've been uh chatting with you over the last couple of days and you were saying how much you love teaching because the business is so successful, it could be you know full-time reality for both of you, but clearly you love teaching. And you're obviously like for me, I look at you and you're like one of those professors I would love to have. You know, just like you know, that's like because you're so passionate about what you do and you're such an expert. I think it actually it's a compliment that you can do both because some people who work in the academic world don't necessarily succeed in the business world, and some people who work well in the commercial business world struggle in academics, yeah. And so you are and and Fernando too, like quite rare that you can both you can do both.

SPEAKER_07: 4:07:08

Yeah, uh, I think we we start uh teaching because when I was studying, uh I I was always thinking I need to know more, and I need someone with the experience in tourism or or in um uh with in business to explain me what I'm going to what what I can I can do or what the problems that they have. So uh when the university asked me to do classes, I was like I was not sure.

SPEAKER_03: 4:07:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 4:07:40

But I struggle so much to have this business and to do the things that I really love and and to see the people enjoying the things that I enjoy also of the Carretero Straight. So um I was not sure, but uh I I already have four years doing it and I love it.

SPEAKER_16: 4:08:02

And it just it should it shows, right? Like it's just like and then that's where this um group dynamic that wouldn't have even been possible if it wasn't for the two of you leading, and obviously you you were at the front and Fernando was at the back, and I I was often in I I was leading the way for most of it. Let's go.

SPEAKER_07: 4:08:18

You you are in the front, like really strong.

SPEAKER_16: 4:08:22

Except for that one day. Except for that one day, but um the the group dynamic that you've been able to form and the team, like Danny, Paolo, and even all the uh suppliers that we met along the way, and Nina mentioned this. She was she was kind to point that out. And I think it's important to recognize all these local partners, the accommodations that we stayed in. Um, it it like everything just flowed so well. And it also built towards a an incredible lodge that we stayed at at the end of the trip. And so tell us a little bit about these partnerships because I think it's one of the things that you guys have brought together that's so special that you have cultivated these relationships over the last 13 years of running this business. And someone else can't just come into that region and just start running bike tours like you guys do. It's uh so yeah, tell us a little bit about how you've been able to build those relationships and grow this business.

SPEAKER_07: 4:09:11

Uh when we start uh doing these uh tours, we met some people that they wanted to start also their businesses. Um and I think uh through the years we grow together. Uh we have the same problems because the logistics and the problems of the carretera is the same for all for all, like uh road coded, uh rain for many days or something like that. Uh so we are we are connected all the time. Uh if someone has a problem, they are all uh like worried about them and helping each other. So I think in uh the suppliers that you met in our tours, um they they have more years than us, some of them working. And when we start, they were like really happy to receive us.

SPEAKER_03: 4:10:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 4:10:12

So uh for for us it's really important that the uh that the tours is not just writing, it's to me the people, the local people, the problems, the uh what they love of the carretera, also, because you can see through their eyes that the the air in carretera is like uh like live alive?

SPEAKER_16: 4:10:36

Alive, yeah, that's a great way to put it. Yes. I certainly felt alive, like so more alive than ever for like this last week, especially after having um such such uh pure mountain air going into my nostrils for 60 kilometers at the the the speed that I was traveling, and so it was a pure natural high. Um one of the things about the suppliers too is that many of them have come here as well to be here at ATWS. So obviously, we're all thrilled that we knew that you were going to be joining us, so you flew down with us. Uh we have Mary here, who her and her Chilean husband mary is from Cleveland, Ohio. So she's American, but has lived here for about 16 years and has two kids that are uh Chilean. And um, we also, the lady and her name now eludes me, she's Chilean that um taught us uh forest bathing.

SPEAKER_07: 4:11:22

Uh uh Trini.

SPEAKER_16: 4:11:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_07: 4:11:25

Yeah, she's here.

SPEAKER_16: 4:11:26

She's here as well. Yeah, I haven't spoken to her uh very much at the event, but I had never done forest bathing before, and that was like our last big day, like we were finishing our cycling and um and so and for people who uh like us with so much energy, the forest baiting is something like weird, but it works.

SPEAKER_07: 4:11:44

Okay, to be quiet and enjoy uh in a different way.

SPEAKER_16: 4:11:48

Well, when we got to the end of the track, and you'd said to me actually, because I I was always asking questions about what's next, what's next, um that's the type of guest that I am. I always want to know what's around the next corner, and you were saying, Oh, you know, the next day is gonna be uh beautiful as well. Like because I it kept it kept building until the last day we got to a glacier, and then we did a hike up to the glacier, and then we got to do forest bathing, and I just want to make sure I all of our listeners know what that means because I didn't, and everyone else seemed to know. Um, but tell everyone what forest bathing is, if you wouldn't mind.

SPEAKER_07: 4:12:16

Okay. Um techniques to connect with the forest. We not just the forest, it's with the earth, with uh um the place that you are like uh visiting.

SPEAKER_03: 4:12:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 4:12:31

Uh that day we could smell uh the lichens, the trees. It's like you use all your sense to connect uh what in the place that you are.

SPEAKER_16: 4:12:47

Yeah, I love that because obviously traveling is all of for you know, certainly for me and most people, it's about like um utilizing all of our senses and being like present and in the moment. And I did have the initial feeling like this is kind of weird, as I'm like, everyone's walking around sniffing trees, and I was like, whatever.

SPEAKER_18: 4:13:03

Like, but I think I could only go there because if that was the first day, maybe it would have been far more weird.

SPEAKER_16: 4:13:09

But I've been hanging out with all these people and everyone's doing it, and then I kind of realized that I was like, so I can't, I you know, got on with it, and I was just like, actually, I I genuinely felt more connected to nature by slowing down, taking a moment, and like and being able to like explore the forest, which started off with um our sense of smell and the sense of touch, and then also we were using magnifying glasses to look at like the smaller ecosystems that exist, and so it was yeah, it was just there were so many, so many highlights.

SPEAKER_07: 4:13:39

Uh it's a Japanese technique. Yes. Uh it's Rinjoku. Yes. That is the name.

SPEAKER_16: 4:13:44

So we we did this amazing trip, and I obviously I want to keep talking about it, but I know we bring ourselves back to ATTA and ATWS. And so, you know, you've had the opportunity to come here, and this is the end of this event spotlight, and Shannon is actually doing the closing address uh this very moment and about to announce next year, which all of our listeners do know, and you're gonna find out very shortly. But um, I wanted to talk about ATTA and your experience here over the last couple of days. I'd love to hear some of the highlights of being here. Obviously, you've got a lot of great friends here, but yeah, tell me some of the highlights of ATWS in Chile this year.

SPEAKER_07: 4:14:20

Um the thing is like uh recognition for us uh to be in the middle of other tour operators like big companies, and they have the opportunity to share uh our experience, our services obviously. If uh and I think the uh the different panels that they have, uh it's uh for us it's like a contribution, obviously, for uh improve our services, uh improve uh uh all the things that we are doing. And it's like a family.

SPEAKER_03: 4:14:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 4:14:57

It's like doing because uh you talk about the same problems, uh about uh how do you use that, and you learn from each other. And I think uh we didn't have the opportunity to to have this kind of um in in improve.

SPEAKER_16: 4:15:16

Yes, exactly, yeah. Well, one thing you'd pointed out to me is there's actually a group of uh cycling tour operators that keep connected to each other, and one thing you also highlighted too is it's mainly male-dominated, and that's something else because we were at the and so uh there you you know you are uh a great representative for um an executive in travel and what you've accomplished, but also as a female leader in this industry, which is also very important. And most far less just know I was raised by a single mom, so that's incredibly like meaningful and important. Uh, and I did go to the women's travel leaders event last night, and um, and so the the the other part that I wanted to talk about with as it relates to that though is that people heard on this podcast, I spoke to Isabel, and she's from Australia, and she's here for the very first time at ATWS. They run a cycling uh company in in Australia focused on uh Japan. Uh her husband's an archaeologist, so it is a husband and wife, and they um and a fascinating story, but they also one of the big benefits of them coming here, as she was telling me, our listeners heard, was connecting with other cycling operators. So within the adventure travel community, there is a subculture of group of you know cycling operators that get to know each other and that network together. And so I know you guys had like drinks the first night, I think. There was like a gathering.

SPEAKER_07: 4:16:28

Yeah, it was um after the day of adventure, yeah. Um is really good because um I I know that the ATT is full of uh all the these adventure uh companies, travel companies, but for us to have the opportunity just to talk about trailers, about bikes, uh uh brands, you know, normally we don't have the uh that kind of um uh like uh conversation with other operators because they do other kind of things, yeah. Uh so it's um it's really good. The uh and uh for us is like um to know what they are doing, what they think about our um like world.

SPEAKER_16: 4:17:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 4:17:19

Yes, yeah, no, and it's uh it's a really good opportunity.

SPEAKER_16: 4:17:22

It's so important to learn from each other and to support each other, and and that's certainly what happens here at ATTA. I mean, you described it as a family. I feel it's very much like I I found my tribe, like these are my people. This is like, you know, I and the one other really cool thing, which was on I guess the opening night when we went to uh Torres del Pine. Yes, thank you. Again, I want to try to get my um tell everyone. It's getting better every day. Thank you. I'll try it. I will eventually, I will, I will get there. But um tell everyone about the band. We've talked about that. I talked to a Shannon, I was just like, tell everyone because you knew what was gonna happen because you've seen this band multiple times, and it was just like another one of these like incredible highlights. But I'd love to hear it from your point of view because you were educating me at the time, and I now follow them on Spotify, and I've been listening and downloading their songs. I'm like, how have I never heard about these guys?

SPEAKER_07: 4:18:13

But yeah, tell everyone about the I was yelling all the time, like really excited. Uh Los Jaivas, that's his name, uh, is one of the most important uh group musical in in Chile. It's like I don't know, it's huge. And I never had the opportunity to be so close to them. And it it was I I feel it was really like um they were singing to each one, it but they were so close, uh, was it really intimo?

SPEAKER_16: 4:18:45

Yeah, there was the six of them, and like the female drummer, and I asked you like who's your favorite? Yeah, Juanita. Yeah, so good. Yeah, she was extraordinary and she was just into it. Like she was singing and just like it was so cool. Um, but these are so many, like so many uh incredible highlights. And um, but for you and and um and cycloastral, I'd love to know, you know, finishing here at ATTA, and very soon we should be able to share where it's gonna be next year, because obviously it's gonna be a pretty cool um connection. But uh tell us a little bit about Cicloastral and where you guys are headed in 2026. Because I want to make sure all of our listeners not only have the chance, if there are travelers, they need to. I had so many people reach out to me, or several people, I should just to be very specific, um, reached out to me to uh on Instagram asking, like, who are you traveling with? What is this incredible trip that you're on? Like, my my wife and I want to do this. Like, we've always wanted to go there, and so hopefully I can send more customers your way because I think they would love it. I think it would be truly transformative travel. I think that is the future of our industry, and I think you represent the future of where travel is headed. And um, but yeah, tell us what some of your plans are for cycloostral and new destinations and yeah, what your plans are for 2026.

SPEAKER_07: 4:20:01

Uh new destinations, yes. Yeah, I would love it.

SPEAKER_16: 4:20:05

Because you design the itineraries. Not only do you teach kids how to do it, you actually also do it. And it's like I know that's your favorite part of your job, too, right?

SPEAKER_07: 4:20:12

Yeah, yeah, to design. Uh, I think the the my favorite part is when I know the people that I'm designing a little bit, and I can design something like really special for them. And after just to see them enjoy. Uh I think next year um we have some dreams like uh to bring this kind of activity to everyone. And now we have the e-bikes, and I think for Yes, you do.

SPEAKER_17: 4:20:41

Yes, you do. That's like that game changer, yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 4:20:44

Yeah, and that will have the uh all the people will have the opportunity to come and to live uh a li like a live life experience with us. Uh I think we try to do the things uh or the tours um like special, like living the the real Patagonia, uh smelling the all the flowers and the trees and um I don't know, it's um I think we will improve our services with some new new places but also new activities.

SPEAKER_16: 4:21:23

And you'll remain focused on Chile, it's still gonna offer uh yeah, for now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 4:21:30

Uh yes, because uh the thing is uh we do cyclotourism, that is uh our speciality, but we want to do multi-activities too, multi-sport. So you can leave the Patagonia on the water, on the oh fantastic, yeah.

SPEAKER_16: 4:21:46

That's well, because even if the branding is cycloastral, like obviously you said, like we we did kayaking, we did hiking, so the idea is to make sure that it's not just cycling, it's uh you're expanding into other adventure categories too.

SPEAKER_07: 4:21:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_16: 4:21:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 4:22:00

I don't want that you miss anything about the Patagonia. I want that you leave you really feel and experience all you know the ways.

SPEAKER_16: 4:22:11

And I think that's uh probably the the best way for it to be experienced because you know, especially from a sustainability point of view and just how meaningful that is. Um but uh what would be one of the the biggest takeaways for you this year from ATTA in Chile, from either the main stage sessions or some of the um the panels, or like what um is there anything that stood out to you this year about this event that was particularly unique or special or some kind of something you're gonna take away from this?

SPEAKER_07: 4:22:40

Uh I think it's the first time that the people uh know where AICEN is, our region.

SPEAKER_02: 4:22:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 4:22:47

And now they understand all the obviously difficulties that we have, but that this is an amazing place, really uh wild. It's not like uh I present something that is like uh an structure. The you have to just be open to leave it wherever it comes. Uh yeah, I think that this is the first time that the people are seeing us, yeah. Like the Philippine.

SPEAKER_16: 4:23:17

Well, I'm convinced that many more people will absolutely, and I hopefully they will from this podcast and from all the travelers that joined us. I'm sure everyone's gonna be saying something similar to me. They're gonna tell all their friends and family that you have to come to see the Isen region. You have to meet Claudia and Fernando, you have to travel with Ciclo Astral, like it's just so special, and especially especially for me on the for the e-bike crew, because like it's like it opens up a whole new category of traveler that wouldn't have otherwise thought it would be possible, um, myself included. So I want to make sure that people can find you guys on um Instagram. Yes, which is C-I-C-L-O.

SPEAKER_07: 4:23:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_16: 4:23:54

Yes, because I always kept putting a Y. So just like C Yes.

SPEAKER_07: 4:23:58

R R I A A L.

SPEAKER_16: 4:24:02

Which is on Instagram and also your website. Yeah, it's uh cicloostral.com.

SPEAKER_07: 4:24:08

Cicloaustralchile.com.

SPEAKER_16: 4:24:09

Yes, cycloostralchili.com. Important clarification. That's also and are you guys on LinkedIn as well? I believe so. Yes, yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_07: 4:24:17

Ciclo Austral.

SPEAKER_16: 4:24:18

Perfect. No, I'd uh um but yeah, I can't thank you enough for what has been an extraordinary week. And I wanna make the connection now because Shannon is just announcing this on stage, and we're gonna finish this podcast together, Claudia and I talking about 2026, and ATTA is headed to Quebec City, Quebec, Canada. And so we're gonna go from you know one end of the world to the other. So we're gonna go from the far south to the far north, yes, and you're gonna get to experience not only Canada. I know you've only ever been to a little bit of British Columbia, um, but you're gonna get a chance to experience Quebec. And I'd said to uh to Claudia and Fernando and the rest of the crew, if it works out, because I had a pretty good idea that likely that was gonna be the case, but obviously Shannon announced it on this podcast, and he's now just announcing it on stage to everyone else, so we can now share it with everybody. Um, but I said you guys need to come across to Toronto and then we'll we'll cycle to Quebec City.

SPEAKER_07: 4:25:16

I'm excited.

SPEAKER_16: 4:25:17

Yeah, yeah, maybe I'm I'm so I'm so incredibly excited for you guys to see Canada, and I think there's such a compliment between our two countries, like Chile and Canada. Obviously, you're gonna see um French Canada, so like that's unique in itself, going from Spanish, not just to English, but to French. Uh, French. You have to learn a little bit. You definitely do, exactly. But I have to learn a bit of Spanish, you gotta learn some French. Yes. No, it'll be much easier for you, I'm sure. Um, but it's such a beautiful part of the world, and obviously there's great cycling there. It's beautiful geographically, linguistically, historically. It has so much to offer. And Shannon was mentioning, I didn't realize this, but it's gonna be the first time that it's been to a destination three times. I didn't realize it had already been the obviously, you know, this is the second time in Chile, yeah, but it is gonna be the third time in Quebec. Not always Quebec City. It's been at um, but this is the first time uh three, three times it's been in one region in Quebec City. So yeah, you're gonna get to come to Canada again and see it properly. So I cannot wait for us to host you in Canada next year.

SPEAKER_07: 4:26:20

Yeah, I'm really excited.

SPEAKER_16: 4:26:21

Oh, that's awesome. And I wish you guys all the best in the next year, and I look forward to keeping in touch. I think we've all got newfound friends, and I look forward to our WhatsApp group and all of our Instagram activity keeping us all connected. But uh yeah, I think everyone on our trip clearly adores you, Claudia, and thinks the world of you and uh Fernando and and this the incredible experience we had. So thank you again, and I look forward to keeping in touch.

SPEAKER_07: 4:26:45

No, thanks to you, and yeah, I I love our group also. It's so nice. The people are really like um like take care in uh from each other.

SPEAKER_16: 4:26:55

So it's every once in a while that magic happens because you had highlighted to us this doesn't always happen, but every once in a while, and this is the beauty of group travel, is that it's a complement of people that come together with a you know with a shared interest and experience, and all of a sudden, you know, that's um um you yeah, you find new friends, you find your tribe, and it's like uh so anyway, but you know, I wish you every success in the year ahead, and I look forward to many people finding out more about you. So definitely check out the wet uh cycloastral chili.com, check out the social channels, find them on LinkedIn, and reach out to them for partnership opportunities and to book your next trip. So yes, thank you again. Muchos gracias.

SPEAKER_07: 4:27:34

A ti.

SPEAKER_16: 4:27:36

Thanks so much for joining us on this special event spotlight of Travel Trends, which was all recorded live at the Adventure Travel World Summit in Puerto Natales, Chile, in October of 2025. Thanks again to the Adventure Travel and Trade Association team for inviting us in and making us your official podcast partner. Special thanks to Shannon, of course, and our ongoing friendship and collaborations. We will have more episodes of our Adventure Travel series with Shannon and I together, coming out over the course of 2026. And if you want to learn more about ATTA or become a member, definitely check out adventuretravel.biz. And don't forget to join us September of 2026 in Quebec City for next year's ATWS. And if you want to find out more about travel trends and our other spotlight episodes, be sure to check out traveltrends podcast.com/slash spotlights. You can subscribe on your streaming platform of choice to be notified when new episodes go live. And we also provide updates on our social channels, which are YouTube, Instagram, and LinkedIn. And if you want to see any videos or photos from my extraordinary pre summit adventure of cycling in Patagonia, definitely check out at DC Trips. We hope you continue to join us and stay connected. And until next time, safe travels.