Travel Trends with Dan Christian
#1 B2B Travel Podcast. If you are looking to stay ahead in the travel industry, this new podcast hits all the highlights! The Travel Trends Podcast is where industry leaders converge to share & shape the future. Whether you're an emerging entrepreneur, a seasoned industry executive, or a dedicated travel professional, you’ll be able to stay ahead in a rapidly evolving landscape.
Uncover valuable insights, innovative strategies, and meaningful connections that will elevate your travel business or career to new heights.
Travel Trends with Dan Christian
Inside GetYourGuide's Journey with Tao Tao
A misbooked flight, a lost day in Beijing, and a spark that reshaped how millions discover what to do when they land. In this Captains of Industry episode, we sit down with Tao Tao, Co-Founder and COO of GetYourGuide, to unpack what it really takes to build a global marketplace for experiences—from cold-calling suppliers before the website even existed to mastering SEO when organic growth still compounded, and designing a company around work, not titles or ego.
Tao explains why execution - not a single “big idea” - wins in travel. We explore how GetYourGuide scaled city by city, managed operator tensions with radical clarity, and made UX choices - like 24-hour cancellation - that boost conversion without breaking trust. He shares lessons on timing, luck, and how culture - anchored in curiosity, high standards, and follow-through - turns principles into performance.
Looking ahead, Asia is roaring back, with Japan leading both demand and creative supply. Learning-led experiences - from cooking classes to knife-making workshops are surging as travelers seek skill and story over stuff. As GetYourGuide expands into multi-day trips, shows, and events, Tao envisions owning more of the traveler’s journey from “What should we do tonight?” to “How do we make this trip unforgettable?” He even welcomes Airbnb’s return to experiences, noting that a rising tide of awareness lifts every boat.
If you care about the future of travel, marketplaces, or simply making great things easier to find, this conversation delivers sharp insights and practical takeaways. For more information on GetYourGuide, please visit getyourguide.com.
👉 Listen to Inside GetYourGuide's Journey Now
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The #1 B2B Travel Podcast Globally. Over 100 Episodes. Listeners in 125 countries. New Episodes Every Weds.
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Travel is one of the very few things that just keeps going up and to the right. Right? So in the 1950s, you had 50 million people traveling. Just before COVID, you had you know more than a billion people traveling. It's one of the few trends, uh, mega trends, just driven by people's curiosity and and and you know median income uh and passports and and lower airfare and availability of hotels and so on. And that trend is unstoppable.
SPEAKER_01:Hello everyone and welcome back to Travel Trends. This is your host, Dan Christian, and I'm thrilled to continue our season six. This is now episode five of our Captains of Industry series. We just wrapped up our In Destination series part two, where we featured Meow Wolf, Viator, and Geotourist. And today we're gonna get to speak to a true captain of industry, the co-founder and COO of Get Your Guide Tao Tao. Now, he and I had a chance to see each other last week in Washington. It was always great to see him in person, but also on stage. We actually went on just after he finished presenting because I was there to host the multi-day tour track. And I look forward to you guys seeing many of the updates which we've posted on our social channels and also will be featured in our latest newsletter, which you can subscribe for at Traveltrendspodcast.com. And I've now just arrived in Patagonia, Chile for the Adventure Travel and Trade Association conference. And over the course of the next week, I'm gonna be recording live here. So if you're in this part of the world, be sure to reach out to me and I will try and include you in our event spotlight. And we've also just released our tourism innovation summit event preview, where I'm gonna be headed right after this. I will be in Seville. So again, please reach out if you're gonna be there. Now let's get back to our Captains of Industry series and welcome someone that is bound to enter the travel industry hall of fame at some point in the future. But he's right in the middle of his career now in full flight. Tao Tao, the co-founder of Get Your Guide. Welcome, Tao Tao. Thanks for joining us on Travel Trends.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you, Dan. It's a privilege to be here.
SPEAKER_01:For sure. This is the Captains of Industry. And when we came up with this concept for season six, you're one of the first people that I thought of because I have a great respect for what you've accomplished and you specifically. Obviously, you got Johannes as well, but I'm like, um I'm the Tao Tao fan, so just so you know, um, but I'm a huge fan of Get Your Guide, and of course I really like uh Johannes as well. But you guys have such an amazing story together. You and I have met, of course, at the arrival conference. I've seen you give keynotes on stage, and it's always nice to be able to speak to someone that you've actually talked to in the green room before you went on stage. And so I've watched you with great interest as the company has continued to grow and go from success to success. So it's a thrill to have you here, and I know that many of our listeners are familiar with you and get your guide, but I also know, just like my father-in-law, who's just traveling to Japan with Colette this uh this fall, he actually booked a sumo trip and he said to me, He's like, Have you ever heard of this company called Get Your Guide? I said, Are they reputable? And I'm like, Oh my god, are you kidding me? I'm like, so I want to make sure that everyone listening to this gets a great understanding of the background and the journey. So let's start with the origin story of Get Your Guide, if you wouldn't mind. Take us all the way back to 2006, 2007, when you decided to create this company. And what inspired you and Johannes to create Get Your Guide?
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. So Dan, first of all, thank thank you so much for having me. Big fan of the podcast. Uh, you know, a lot of our team listens to your podcast. It's it's definitely uh one of you know one great resource, and and you guys bring great opinions and voices to the industry. So um absolutely love that. And and certainly in 2007, when we had the idea, there was no travel podcast around. So um that's that's definitely a change that we've seen. So to take you back, um so back in 2007, Johannes and I we were studying at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in in Zurich, Switzerland. And we back then were um we we co-founded a student organization that organized um student trips. So it was a debate thing, Model UN, for those who are familiar. And we traveled to Beijing for a debate conference, and Johannes booked his flights wrong. So he arrived a day too early in Beijing, was lost. And for those who know Johannes, and he's the co-founder and CEO of the company, high energy, super passionate, you know, that that you know ideal explorer to ever you can imagine, really wants to see everything and just really explore, and couldn't because he was you know stuck in his hotel room back in 2007. There was no great, you know, cheap data products available, um, and it was not a five-star hotel, so there's definitely no concierge. So just very hard for him to do anything. And a day later, I arrived, and I'm from Beijing, so I'm a Beijing native. I was I was born there, I grew up there, uh, lived there as a small child, and and so I just really opened up the city for him. We, you know, we went to have great food, saw great experiences, you know, went to the Forbidden City, the Great Ball, the Summer Palace, we went to some you know hidden spots, met some friends, and when we came back to Zurich, we kind of had this idea that it should be a lot easier for anyone to discover these cities and to uh unlock these experiences that are you know otherwise only available to folks staying in five-star hotels with fancy concierges, um, or those who maybe book some kind of package travel. And so that was the idea. Can we create something that helps people unlock these incredible experiences anywhere so that instead of having a TAO who guides you around, you have an app that tells you um all the wonderful things that you can do uh in any destination around the world. And that was the idea, and then we we did the business plan on uh uh you know, just you know, in our dorm rooms, uh back of the envelope calculation. We estimated that the market would be 100 billion. That was our guess back then. Actually, we're not that far off if I look at the current market sizing, so that was pretty accurate. And we did a bit of consumer research, which existed in us googling for you know, how do customers find this today on the internet? And um, probably our research skills just weren't that great because we did not find the competitors that we know of today. Um, but you know, that bit of naivety, I guess, is also important uh for first time founders. And so all of that gave us confidence that we should um try this and start get your guide.
SPEAKER_01:Such an incredible story. And obviously, I knew with your background being born in Beijing, the fact you actually speak more than uh you guys you have four languages you're fluent in, obviously German as well as as French and English. Am I missing? Is there a fifth one I don't know about?
SPEAKER_02:Those are the four.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, exactly. So when I was uh preparing for our conversation today with Tal, I was not only reading up on some of the uh additional uh articles that he's been featured in, but I was also listening to the Torpreneur podcast that you're featured on, which is also a phenomenal podcast. And they obviously had a great conversation with you as well. And I think the more I've learned about you, the more impressive you have become in my mind, looking at your journey. And so in terms of your background, though, obviously you're telling us uh the get your guide story, which people need to know, but your backstory, when you look at your journey before get your guide, you were uh an intern at at Siemens before that. That was your first role. So, like you were well educated and what and obviously you love travel. But tell us a little bit about your life up until that point. Like, was it a desire that you had personally to work in travel? Were you just an avid traveler and wanted to find a way to make a career out of this?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you you know, you know, the joke is um Johannes and I and Martin and Toby, the other two co-founders are still in the business. We always tell our parents that, you know, we went to these uh, you know, fancy schools and took STEM classes, you know, studied uh, you know, anything from neuroscience to quantum physics just to become travel agents. Um that's but but you know, honestly, you know, why not? Right? So I think this is an amazing industry. So to take us a little bit back, um, yeah, I was I was born in Beijing and um I moved to Germany at the age of six. Um so because my uh my mom, she was a physicist, uh, did her PhD in physics here in Germany. And um Johannes and I, we actually met um on a high school exchange here in the US in 2001. So when we were 16, we were both in the US at the same American boarding school, hence the American accent a little bit. And uh we spent a year there, you know, became very good friends, have stayed in touch ever since. And later on, I went to the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, so ETH Zurich, and I started my physics studies there, which I didn't finish. I later on completed an econ degree, but I started in physics, um, just like my parents, because I thought it would be you know fun and theoretical, was ultimately a little bit too theoretical, but um, you know, still loved the principal thinking which led me to economics. And um, yeah, I mean, as you mentioned, I did an internship at Siemens. I think that was actually a great experience um to understand of what kind of job suited me. Um so I still remember the the most memorable feedback I received at Siemens, and this was two weeks in. Um, I thought I was doing a decent job, maybe not a great job, but a decent job. But one day the manager calls me into her office and says, How I have to give you some feedback, you have to change how you work. It's like, okay, let's go. And um and the feedback was um you have to work a lot less um because it doesn't look great if the intern's in the office every day uh and does all the work. And I was thinking, well, yeah, so that that was that was interesting feedback. I mean, I adjusted it, um, but that you know gave me an insight into what it means to be corporate politics, you have to maybe fit in a certain way, and you know, nothing wrong about that. Um but that was definitely a takeaway for me that maybe this corporate career ladder wasn't exactly for me. And um, you know, and we've always been you know, I've always been interested in doing something entrepreneurial. In in in college, um, I was part of a student consulting company where essentially students would do strategy consulting, and um, you know, and and with Johannes, we co-founded this student organization with the debate. So we loved creating things, starting things. Um, and I loved working in small teams with just smart people that I respect, that I have a lot of fun with. And, you know, and and I think those things also helped um to you know push me personally over the over the barrier to say, hey, you know, maybe starting a company is not such a bad idea.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, clearly what you learned there as being an entrepreneur was that no one is ever gonna pay you what you're worth. And I think that's some of the things that uh stood out to me when I speak to entrepreneurs, that when you look at a corporate role and you see how hard you work and how diligent you are, and the fact that you're gonna be so resourceful. So the fact that you saw that so early as an intern that looked at the corporate world and said, wait a second, this isn't for me, obviously, is an important part of your journey, even though you were so incredibly young. But uh the one other thing I just wanted to touch on, and then I wanted to speak about to get your guide in the competitive landscape and how you guys have been so successful, because I think this is such an intriguing part of the story and part of your background being so global and international to be able to lead a company like this, along, as you mentioned, with your three co-founders. But the role you have is chief operating officer. So once the company got up and scale, and of course Johannes is a CEO, your role obviously is one of those ones that some people are not, you know, a chief operating officer. There's so many different aspects to that role, of course. And you are all you are also a very um you're you're out there in the media. Obviously, you're kindly doing the podcast with us, and so often COOs are in the background, and Johannesov obviously, you know, he speaks at some of the big events as well, of course. Um but tell everyone a bit about your background because one of the things I find really interesting about your role is you're responsible for go-to-market strategy and the user experiences, which is you know two of the most important aspects of growing a global company. So, yeah, tell everyone a bit about your role and what you do.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. So, you know, being a CEO, I get this question um quite a bit, especially from you know younger founders or entrepreneurs who um also have these roles. Um, my number one advice usually is um it's usually you want to do the org design and titles bottom up, not top-down. Uh, because too often what I mean with top-down is you know, we're a founder, so as a founder, I need to have a C level title. So you got I'm gonna be CX, you will be C Y, and somebody with CZ something, right? Um and then we figure out what we do. And and that is just fundamentally the wrong approach because that optimizes for you know personal preferences, ego, and all those kind of things. And I think the better approach is to think about what is actually the frontline work that needs to be done, and then what is the management structure needed to support that frontline work. Um, and you know, obviously this is hindsight 2020. We always didn't always get it right as uh either. And so um if you know, if I look at the current setup, is essentially some of the jobs to be done in the company are things that go to market, i.e., on our side means um, you know, going to suppliers, doing acquisition there, um, managing them, uh, doing things like customer service, uh, doing things like accounting, doing things like you know, managing payroll, doing things like recruiting. And so then you think about okay, what is a good management structure to support that? And then you create the org chart and then you put ultimately at the end the titles on it. And the COO typically in many companies is very different, um, just by the nature of companies being very different, right? So if you're a SaaS company, you know, you only have one side of the marketplace. Um, you don't probably don't need a CO, you just need a chief revenue officer who has both sales and operations, right? If you are a two-sided marketplace, um, you know, I've seen COOs do a variety of things. They can be doing, you know, they can be like a president role where they do everything, um, or they can just be very focused on you know back office. And so that's why I think um, you know, when when when founders or or other COs think about the titles, I wouldn't be so focused on the title. I would really focus on you know, what support do the teams need? What management structure is the leanest way and most efficient way for them to get the work really done. And then then you worry about the title. Um, then that's a long-winded way of to explain what I actually do. So the teams um that actually um that I support on, so primarily is the all the various supply teams, so doing supplier acquisition, supplier management, um customer service, so um helping our customers, but also the suppliers and partners um have a great, really delightful um uh experience with us when they have problems or questions. Um, and then also a lot of the content and localization, so a lot of the what a lot of companies would consider the operations. So those are a lot of the roles I do. Um but of course, as a as a founder, you're also um deeply involved in company strategy. Um also on the board of the company. So um a variety of roles um that I've tried to fill.
SPEAKER_01:I appreciate giving everyone that context because certainly I think when people look at you and the success of Get Your Guide, especially a younger generation coming up, they instantly look at you and say, I would love to be in that position. I would love to start a company like Get Your Guide. I would but the hard yards that you have navigated over the past you know 15 plus years are really what's important to define the success that you have now. So I wanted to go back to those early years and kind of set the scene for the landscape for our listeners and also for you to help us understand how you charted the course to the success that you have built get your guide on globally. So we had Rod Cuthbert on at the end of last season, who was uh a terrific guest as we closed last season, and most people then know the Viator story. 1995, they founded uh Viator, which was acquired by TripAdvisor in 2014. You essentially created Get Your Guide about 10 years later in Europe. There had been a big focus on countries that like the US, or even Australia for that matter, because obviously Rod is Australian and set the business up in San Francisco, and then sending people to Europe. But what I found fascinating about your journey is that you guys started in Europe and expanded globally. And we've actually seen a lot more of that, certainly in the last five years. Um, but you were one of the first, if not, you know, that that emerged out of Europe and you built a great travel tech company. And so when you think back to those early years when you guys were trying to navigate your way to find investment and get people to believe in it, I'm sure you at least had Viator to point to, even though it was still a long way from being a success story. When it sold to TripAdvisor was$200 million, and now here we are, you know, 10 years later, and it's doing over a billion dollars a year in revenue. And so the success trajectory for this category in this industry, it's uh to use a Canadian term, it's been like a hockey stick. So all of a sudden, especially post-COVID, right? All of a sudden, you know, travel, everyone's spending their money on travel, investors are interested in travel. And I know ultimately SoftBank became one of your big backers and investors, which is impressive of itself given um their background. And but yeah, tell us a little bit about those first few years and some of the challenges you came up against and what made you and the team so resilient in the face of that, knowing that there's such a big opportunity here.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. Um so lots of great questions, Dan. And um maybe let me tack in them one for one. Um first, maybe starting with the macro setting that you mentioned, Europe versus US. Um so maybe here, I think something that you know some of you are, you know, you know, I know your listens are very sophisticated. And one of the things they probably all appreciate is um almost all of the industry-leading companies in travel are European uh across any category. So um, with the exception of um alternative accommodations, but they also make most of the revenue in Europe, actually. Um and that has to, so if you think about the first travel company ever, Thompson travel, right, late 18th something, right, late 19th century, all the way to Tui and then Booking.com and you know all these other giants um across different different categories. And it's that's because um there is so much intra-umal travel in Europe, and there are so many um amazing travel destinations in Europe. And so, both from a source market and from a destination perspective, Europe is great. And also, if you start building a travel business in Europe, you have to think international from day one. Um, so you know, even you know, we started the company initially in Zurich, then moved to Berlin, but we knew from day one this would have to be a global business. So we had a very global mindset from the early onset, and I think that um coupled with um our natural advantage of being in Europe in terms of destination source market, I think has always given us a huge lackup, um, just from a macro context. In terms of what were the um you know initial recipes for success, I think really goes back to um, you know, for those listening who are you know maybe just thinking of creating a marketplace, you know, there's the typical analogy of you know, a nightclub, and you have to think about, you know, you need, you know, you need two types of people in nightclubs, the woman and the man, um, for your normal nightclub. And um, and then you think about which side of the market is easier to get, and then you go after those, and then the other side will typically follow. Um, and and that's kind of how we approach it, right? We just said, well, clearly we're a marketplace, so first we have to offer some inventory. So we started, Johannes and I, um, just the two of us, we just called you know suppliers around the world. And it's actually still funny when you know these days we meet like you know, the Empire State building, um, you know, just met them recently, where we say, hey, remember when you know these you know 26-year-old kids you know called you and said you should sign up on this website that doesn't even exist yet? Um, you know, that that's that's really how it started. Obviously, they didn't say yes immediately. So some of these things took like five years, eight years, you know. Um and and that it I mean, I don't think it's it's it's much more secret than that. You have to really think about what is the inventory that customers want, um, acquire that, and then build a great consumer product that can really showcase those experiences, and then you have to figure out marketing, which is usually I would say where travel um companies fail. I think here um we got a little bit lucky in that when we started, um there was just back in 2008, 2009, 2010, a lot of organic um SEO traffic still. And and I think we we benefit from that. Um and then two is in Berlin back then, we had all these um this rocket internet um tech thingy that created back then a lot of um copycasts to American companies, right? Um the benefit of that is they created a lot of incredible tech and online marketing talent that we could also tap into. So there were a lot of people really, really knowledgeable on online marketing that we ourselves, you know, we've never done any of this, couldn't have developed so quickly ourselves. So there was a very good ecosystem here in Berlin, Germany, of just really smart folks who could really help us figure out the customer acquisition problem. Um last but not least, maybe um a word of advice. And back then, Keith Colen, who was the founder and CEO of Booking.com, when he joined our board in 2013, you know, we thought, hey, you know, you know, he's clearly got to figure it out. You know, booking back then was a multi-multi-billion dollar company already. And we thought, let's ask him about the secret, right? And then when we when you know we got on board and we thought, okay, now he's part of the team and we can ask him about the secret. And he just said, you know, give the customers what they want and work really hard. And and I think ultimately that's it, right? There is no one silver bullet in travel, right? And I think that's really the the key thing. There's not one deal, one product feature, one piece of inventory um that unlocks everything. It is really understanding that it's a supply-demand problem with product in the middle, and you have to keep improving all three of those every day.
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SPEAKER_01:And now, back to the show. One specific thing I wanted to understand is that in those early days when you were calling up suppliers, and obviously now you've got 150,000 experiences with 13,000 different suppliers. So when you were calling those first few, were you calling them with the idea that these were going to be for German travelers? Like what where was the focus initially on, as you mentioned, source market? And then where were the destinations you were focusing? Was it exclusively Europe? And that and then you so uh because I'm really keen to understand uh ultimately how you decided to expand globally, for example. So tell us a little, if you wouldn't mind, just what markets you were initially focused on.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. So as you said, the the focus was initially first of all, I don't think we were that sophisticated in the beginning, right? We just said, okay, what are the top things in the world? Let's just call them and see what happens, right? I I don't think um and sometimes also that bias for action without overthinking it is actually not too bad. Um I think if we had been from travel before, we would have probably gotten more sophisticated, but also um maybe less less courageous, and we just called people. Um the prioritization we had in mind though was certainly who what are the top cities that Europeans and especially German-speaking customers go to? Because we thought this is where we had a bit of an advantage, um, and it's the customers we understood, and where we had the first um initial traction, especially with organic search on Google. And so that's where we start. I mean, you know, these are not secrets. You know, you look at London, you look at Barcelona, you look at Paris, you look at New York, uh, maybe Mallorca, because it's Germans, right? So you think about those places and you just you just start calling.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. And I think that that approach is, you know, when uh many entrepreneurs today are looking at getting funding and and I'm sure coming up after you, not only for uh investment, but also trying to understand how to build their pitch decks. And one of the things, you know, people are asking them about their moat and these things that or their who their ideal customer profile is, and many of these things that they have you know yet to figure out. They might have an idea of what they're moving towards, but as you've proven successfully, you just get in and you figure it out as you go. So tell us then how you ended up becoming successful on the path towards investment. And so uh, if you wouldn't mind, just take us through a little bit of that that early stages of how you guys actually uh reached out to investors and when you realized that you were ready to be VC backed.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And maybe maybe we before we go to the VC, I I do think um maybe one important point is luck plays such a big role. Um, and luck, especially when it comes to timing, right? So um, you know, I've seen so many great companies launch with an idea that's just too early or too late. Too late meaning there's already a successful incumbent uh with you know exit velocity or too early. Um and we've all seen those. And I think we just hit the right timing on a lot of areas, and that is not something that you can plan up front. And you can control to a degree if you're aware of the timing issue, but you know, you will never fully get it right. And and I think we were quite lucky on on the timing piece for sure. And um, speaking of funding, I mean that's that's also timing, right? So um back in 2011, when we first started to really think about getting funding, and by the way, by today's terms, that's crazy, right? That's three years after two years after founding, we think about start thinking about CDOR series A. You know, these days, you know, companies uh you know already at series, I don't know what what letter of the alphabet they are after two, three years. So the the velocities have definitely changed a lot, which is great because there's just a lot more resources. Um you can, you know, back then I was mostly relying on going to Quora, which was an online QA platform with lots of great knowledge. Nowadays, you can just ask ChatGPT about what are go-to-market best practices across two sort of marketplaces, right, and travel. And you probably get an 80% correct answer. And um, but going back to the funding question, so back then it was just a lot more um immature um ecosystem, both in uh in Zurich um in Europe in general. But we realized that we really wanted to have American investors because they had a really global perspective. And frankly, um all the German investors said no. So uh when we when you know we went to the German VCs, you know, back in 2012 for a CRSA, you know, and this is they all know this, but you know, the question of like, you know, what's your business plan, what's the cash flow projections, when are you profitable? It's like really? Um yeah, so so we went to the US, you know, we said, hey, this is a global market play, um, or at least the Western Hemisphere play. Um it's a huge market, the 100 billion, you know, nowadays I think it's considered in the 300, 400, 500 billion mark, but you know, that triple-digit billion market size is there, um, up for the grabs. And so we went into the US. Um, we had fortunately a great seed investor in in London, pro founders who made a lot of great intros to American VCs, um, introduced us to Spark Capital in Boston, who then ultimately ended um up leading the A round together with Highland Europe. And um, but it was also for them not a um uh you know a clear-cut decision. So um Alex was the partner on the deal at Spark, um, you know, keeps keeps reminding us that uh when he pitched to his partnership, he um um they said this was the triple E, which is it was early expensive in Europe. And so this was um, you know, but ultimately, you know, they they had the conviction and the courage and the in the shared vision in in the market and and and thankfully also in us as the team to build the product that can serve this market, and and then off we went. And I think that was in hindsight also a very lucky break because we didn't really know the VC industry as we know it today. And today, you know, we know, I know that you know Spark and Highland is incredible partners, and um and having really great VCs on board actually matters a lot too.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it's really interesting, and I can't wait to share this with you because I spoke to Chris Hameter last week and many of Our listeners would have heard him first because we uh leading off with Chris Hemeter and then having you Tao Tao, and something happened quite magical on that call that um to me confirmed that the season the captains of industry and having the two of you lead off. Uh so I asked Chris Hemeter a few rapid fire questions at the end. And of course, if people can go back and listen out from Thayer Ventures, Chris Hemeter obviously is one of the biggest VCs within the travel industry, but also a very savvy investor. So it's not like they have the biggest portfolio, but if they're investing, everyone else takes notice. Uh and I asked him, what's the one that got away, Chris? If you could go back, what is the startup that you would have invested in? And without much hesitation, he said, get your guide. And it's like it's still uh and I found that so fascinating because there's someone that is that a savvy an investor, and and credit to him for owning the fact that he missed this opportunity. And so I wanted to acknowledge that because obviously that's uh a cool connection between you guys that clearly you went to the US and for whatever reason at the time he didn't jump on it. I do know um Michael Zeisner has been one of your investors and a very, very happy investor as well. And so what I wanted to ask you when it actually came to finding that success, one of the things I'm sure they were asking you, and was key to your success, was really differentiating yourself in the marketplace. And that's one of the things I'm really keen to understand, especially how much of that was intentional, or how much now when you look back, you realize as you reference timing being so important. But what were some of the characteristics of Get Your Guide that were unique, that allowed you to thrive in the face of really tough competition, not only Viator, but Kluke starting in Hong Kong, and there's been you know no shortage of smaller players that have tried to carve out uh a piece of this business, and you guys have continued to go from strength to strength. So, what what is it that is the differentiator for get your guide that you think has led to that success?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so maybe starting from the um investor perspective, I mean, uh and first of all, thanks to Chris for his kind words. Um but from the investment perspective, I think at the end of the day we can talk about modes and and all these you know cool things, but ultimately the one chart that matters is growth, right? If if growth um is a hockey stick, to use a Canadian term, then um then everything's good, right? And and ultimately that's also because um in marketplaces, scale is a critical mode, right? There are other modes. Um and and as we matured as a business, we've been thinking about this much more methodologically and think about modes, thinking about strategic differentiation, um, thinking about strategic expansion and so on. But in the early days, it's all about growth. If you can show growth at uh decent unit economics, that's the only thing that matters. And because it means that you have actually found a way to scale, um, even if maybe it's inefficient a little bit or inefficient a lot in some pockets, uh, but if you can show that you even have a scalable path and lever you can pull on, that's incredibly magical. And fortunate for us, you know, back then we we frankly we leaned a lot on inventory acquisition and uh and Google customer acquisition. Those two things just worked super well for us, right? And we had a very good um go-to-market playbook, um, we had local offices, we had a very good sales playbook. So we you know, having done the sales ourselves, we just continuously refined how we would um you know sign up new suppliers, manage them, um, and then also acquire the customers on Google in a very efficient, in efficient way and increasing efficient way over time. So ultimately growth is the one that matters. And and that also leads to the question of differentiation. So um we can talk a little bit about differentiation at scale because there the differentiation is a bit more important. But the in the early days is really just about strong execution. And so the differentiation there is you know, what's your company culture, who do you recruit, um, who's the talent that you bring on board, um, how well do you work together, uh, how hard do you work together, and um do you take the right bets and all those things, right? So execution is is just the key, right? If you if you think about, you know, if you go back 20 years and you think about the leading OTAs selling hotels, I mean, what's the difference? They all sell hotels, right, in different colors. And then some some some execute it better than others. And I think that makes all the difference. That said, um I will say that the European advantage, um, that structural advantage of us being in Europe has definitely helped. Um, so you know, us being close to the top spot um um destinations, Rome, Berlin, London, um, and so on, and having that European customer base, um, that has been a source of strength um ever since. So that has definitely been a huge structural advantage for us.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it's really interesting to hear that from your perspective because given that your role is also responsible for the user experience, so you're key to driving innovation to ensure that growth continues. Because obviously, one really good example, I suppose, of where you had success but then navigated it is like is adding more supply. So you had more selection. But all of a sudden, what can happen, and as you well know, is you end up with a crowded marketplace, and all of a sudden there's so much selection it's difficult for a consumer to make choices. And I've seen, and certainly you have as well, at Arrival conference where there's almost like an angry town hall, not in your direction, thankfully, but certainly uh with uh Dermot from Viator and even the Fair Harbor team, where you have a lot of these operators that are up in arms over placement with regards to commissions, and even the way you guys successfully navigated the whole originals, like I've just been so impressed by the way that you guys have conducted yourself. And so as you've grown, and then you when you reach these kind of pressure points like that, uh for example, having all of a sudden so much supply, and then you yourself being responsible for the user experience, and you know that this could have a negative effect on growth, how do you navigate that when you when you recognize, wait a second, there's just there's too many options here. How do we refine it to make the best user experience? How have you overcome those challenges?
SPEAKER_02:I would say one of the um there's probably not one generic answer, but um maybe if we take um just on the supply side, like you know, the that topic where you know you have um you know very passionate you know business owners uh with wrong opinions, I think it's really about really understanding what problems that we're trying to solve or what problem they have, um, and just being really, really close to them. The benefit of, I think one of the benefits of Johannes and us and me doing not only the sales acquisitions, but we were also the first customer service team. So um it was basically either him or my cell phone using a Skype routing extension going to our mobile phones, and um, and we just you know took turns basically. One day it was him, one day it was me, and sometimes it was a customer service call, me at the supermarket counter or uh me jogging or 3 a.m. in the night. Right. And so I think that's um uh so we have a lot of empathy, and that's one thing we've kept up. So you know, we still do customer service once in a while, and and I still talk to our operators, um, at least on a weekly basis. And and a lot of them have my personal email. So for sure, if there's an issue, they do write me directly. And what I then try to do is, you know, sometimes I might disagree and we have heated debates, but I always make sure that they really know that I really, really understood their problem, and and that my answer of why we make certain decisions is very clear about the trade-offs, right? And in a two-sided marketplace, and in these are business owners, they understand the concept of trade-offs. So you know, often it's about understanding, hey, there are customer needs, so traveler needs, and there are operator needs. And 95% of the time they are in alignment and 5% they are not. And then the question is if it's not, why do we take a decision a certain way? And how does that decision ultimately also benefit the operators in the midterm? I give you a simple example. So during COVID, um, one of the things that we tested was um 24-hour free cancellation for most of imaginary. We I understand that for some experiences, I don't know, five-day, multi-day, you cannot just do 24-hour cancellation, that doesn't work. But um, we we just said, hey, let's just do it, let's do an um A-B test, um, blanket conversion, and uh so it's a blanket test of 24-hour cancellation, and we saw it was super, super positive. Right now, I fully understand that it's operationally very, very difficult um for suppliers and operators to do that. Um, but then we just really went into the conversation and explained to them, you know, you ultimately all benefit from this, right? If you can enable 24-hour cancellation, it's gonna be really beneficial because you will get more bookings. And you know, I don't know if you remember, but when when we started to get you to guide, this is 10 more than 10 years ago, you had this concept of on-demand versus free sell bookings, right? So on-demand was you know, you book and then you wait 48 hours for the operator to confirm. I mean, that that just wouldn't work, right? Because nowadays people book within 48 hours.
SPEAKER_01:And and so terrible user experience, exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:And I think those are just examples where in the short term, it is operationally tricky, right? I totally get it. You cannot just suddenly change your operations as an operator. Um, but if you can ease folks into it, it's really explain what's the long-term benefit of doing this. Um, I usually have found that this works quite well if we just give it to them straight from entrepreneur to entrepreneur.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and the one thing that you've stayed close to, and this is when I've seen your presentations, uh, including at the most recent arrival conference when you actually talked about what travel looked like post-COVID. And since you referenced that, I'd actually love to be able to ask you that now because I think a lot of our listeners are going to be keen to understand from your perspective, given how close you are to that detail, by virtue of that answer, where the business is in 25 going into 26, and what the big trends you're paying attention to. And so the one thing I wanted you to please highlight to uh our audience, because it's far more powerful coming from you, but our podcast essentially started to help people in the travel industry understand what was happening post-COVID. And what I find really interesting about that, because clearly it struck a chord and people have benefited from the conversations because they weren't necessarily getting this information elsewhere. They weren't necessarily in research reports. There's a lot of amazing uh media businesses in travel that do reports and research, and a lot of that is very valuable. When you speak to someone like yourself, though, when you come up on stage and you present the data based on exactly what you're seeing, that to me really excites me because you're close to the consumer experience and the decisions they're making on the destinations they want to go to, how sensitive they are uh to price fluctuations, you can see private tours, like there's so much valuable data you have. And this is where having the conversations with people like yourself and people being able to learn from that. So, one of the things that I wanted to ask you is this question about post-COVID. And the reason I wanted to ask you this question is not only is it the genesis of the podcast, but also I still think that, you know, as we have this conversation, you know, what are we, three years outside of COVID, maybe four. But the reality is we're still not gonna know for 10 or 15 years truly all the impacts of what happened to our society during that time. Children's education and um so when you look at travel, for example, and I'm saying that because our kids, we lived in LA for a while, they didn't go to school for like nearly two years, and so uh they struggled a little bit to get into university, but they finally got there. But um, but yeah, what what do you see what when you look back at that time and look at where your business is today, tell us what are some of the bigger uh consumer behavioral changes that you've noticed that still continue.
SPEAKER_02:For sure. And uh COVID, yeah, it feels like uh 200 years ago, but it's really not. Um and uh so one of the things that I remember us in COVID, and we we took some somewhat contrarian decisions in COVID. So um, for example, um you know, a lot of folks told us, you know, you should lay off half your company, right? Go into hibernation and then you know come back once this thing is over. We we took the opposite decision. We actually kept uh almost everybody on and just invested into the product uh and into the supply. And that turned out to be the right decision. And because our insight was so, first of all, um it's it's a virus, um, it's a question whether it's gonna be a two, three-year thing, right? Um and it helped that uh Johannes is actually uh he has a master's in biochemistry. Actually, two of our co-founders have a master's in biochemistry, and they both worked on uh coronavirus in labs before as part of their education. So they were actually very, very uh the most knowledgeable travel uh executives probably uh about the virus. And um, and we just kept very close. Also, lots of friends who were doing research in this area. And and and also a fundamental conviction that travel is one of the very few things that just keeps going up and to the right. Right? So in the 1950s, you had 50 million people traveling, just before COVID, you had you know more than a billion people traveling. It's one of the few trends, uh mega trends, uh, just driven by people's curiosity and and and you know, median income, uh, and passports and lower airfare and availability of hotels and and so on. And that trend is unstoppable. We also figure that um experience is the least digitized of all industries. And if anything, um people learn from COVID is uh, or what I always call the main COVID winner was the QR code. Like pre-COVID was a QR code go away. What is this? Uh but now everybody's using it, right? And it's become so digital. And all these top attractions and government-run institutions and um that have been maybe more conservative about adopting digital tools, um, really woke up to digital tools, and that really helped us as well. So I would say starting with you know, those are two convictions we just really lean into during COVID because we we believed in those. In terms of trends um following COVID, I don't actually I actually don't think there is this one thing that changed everything. Um but there's this famous quote, you know, we always overestimate what changes in one year and underestimate what changes in 10 years. And I do think some of those things that um we might underestimate is, and and and you know, obviously your listeners may not, and and we certainly don't, is just the rise of experiences overall. One of the things we've seen is the um so the purchase of consumer experiences over things, that growth rate is 5x different um versus um versus products, and also experiences are the fastest growing segment um within travel, so within flights and hotels, so it's growing um also a lot faster. Um and that just I think it has to do with people, they just got a big reminder that, oh, it actually matters to go outside the door and meet people and have in-person, and you know, Zoom is not everything. Um and maybe one other anecdote is you know, folks during COVID said, Well, you're offering tours, why don't you offer virtual tours, right? Um like you know, online Zoom tours. And and you know, usually we told them like you you you fundamentally misunderstand what get your guide is about. Get your guide is not about the the word tours, right, or experience, it's about human connection, real discovery, uh the sense of adventure. So anybody who's been on a real tour versus a virtual tour. A virtual tour, the competitors Netflix and PlayStation 5, right? Um and that's just not that's just not where what we're competing against, right? We're competing against you being in Rome and maybe having a glass of wine too much uh versus doing one of our experiences. So I think I think that's really been one of our um key convictions. And last but not least, and I think this is the one that gives me a lot of uh optimism and and conviction, is um I've been so I've been um with Johannes, we've been traveling a lot to local offices, we've been having small satellites supplier events. We now have these bigger events uh called Unlocked, where we have them um three times a year on different continents, so Asia, Europe, um, and the US. And we get a lot of suppliers together and talk about innovations, roadmaps, and so on. And what really is fascinating, especially on the smaller satellite events, where it's um you know more long tail or newer operators, is that so many of them started their business during COVID. Right? So um, when I was in Japan, it was so inspiring um when we asked the room how many of you started your experience business during during the pandemic, it was half the room, and it was incredible. And I think just that entrepreneurialism of people thinking about new types of experiences to create is is is just is just amazing to see. Versus when I remember in 2009 when we started the business, all tours featured as souvenir stop. We've come a long way from that to now you have sumo wrestlers. You mentioned sumo. So one thing is the sumo things. Um the other one is you know, a lot of retired sumo wrestlers create their own chicken hotpot, uh, Chunkanaban um experiences. And one of our bestsellers in Japan is one of one such retired sumo wrestler who created this sumo wrestling and chicken hotpot experience, huge bestseller. Um, and that that's just super cool. So, you know, I always like to say that the best and most successful experience is still to be created, and it's full fully a function of the human ingenuity of experience creators.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love that you highlighted that thing, then the power of personal connection and specifically the impact you can have on people's lives. Because I think clearly you and I are driven by, I guess, a similar desire, which is to see that impact be realized. Like it's just like there's nothing I don't think that is nearly as fulfilling for me, and it certainly seems like for you, Tao Tao, is like when you realize the benefit you've had on someone else's life, livelihood, and created an opportunity for them like that. Um, but you said it really well, and that's what I was I wanted to give you the floor to highlight and underscore what is kind of the most important thing for everyone to pay attention to you, is that experiences are 5x over material possessions. And this was a graph that you you had shown, and I was like, that's it right there. Like this is like when people have travel taken away from them, they're said, never again. Like, I'm never going to take for granted the opportunity to travel. And I'm gonna see and this concept of revenge travel, which I never liked that terminology, and this kind of like, oh, it's revenge travel, and revenge travel will be exhausted. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, yes, people have money set aside, but this has fundamentally changed people's priorities and perspective. So this is not a short-term phase, this is a long-term trend. And you know the numbers, obviously, you use the word conviction, which I love as well, because I still remember when investors started talking about having conviction on the multi-day tour category and just conviction on tours, that it's just like we are convinced there's a ma there's a massive opportunity here, and we're committed to getting involved in it. We'll be right back.
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SPEAKER_01:And now, back to the show. So the things I would love to ask you now, kind of looking forward with Get Your Guide, given the position that you are in and your growth plans, tell us a little bit about what you're looking to in 2026 in terms of either new markets, new experiences. And of course, I'm very keen to touch on multi-day as well because I know you're testing that in some markets. But tell us what you as a team are really focusing on and prioritizing for 2026.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. So um so we're already in the midst of doing that planning and lots of exciting things and love to share more once we can uh once we can talk about them and the comms team allows me to talk about them. So first of all, we have so we have a very exciting product release coming out at the end of the month. Um and so we've we've now done the um we've now done the uh the the we have now a ritual where you know on a on a half-year basis we we share all the key product features releasing, especially for the creator side of things, um experienced creators, all the operators. Um then we have, as I mentioned, a lot of these event series uh in Berlin and Bangkok where we invite our top partners um to come and we usually have some exciting keynote speakers. Um we have some great partnerships in the pipeline. Um so if you have any you know partners like airlines or hotel platforms or credit card companies who are interested in partnering with us, you know, let us know we have you know lots of great ones already in place and lots of great in the pipeline. Um but always the most exciting thing that always excites me the most is really um what uh what innovation are we driving? And and you hinted at multi-day and category expansion is definitely one of those growth vectors that we'll continue to pull on, which is to go both wider and deeper in the categories that we play in. So going deeper means um really thinking about you know in tours and you know tickets, um, how can we further um improve the customer experience and also going wider. So um early this year um we started going much more into multi-day, um, also shows and events and and adding product features there. Um, because it's just part of the part of the consideration set when customers go to New York, uh, when they go to London, um, and for multi-day when they go to when they go to, for example, uh Vietnam. So when I was in Vietnam, I did a um four-day, multi-day, um, you know, the typical Halong Bay cruise with you know some day trips added to it. Um it's just you know part of the planning process. So um we're very excited about um category expansion in particular.
SPEAKER_01:That's great. And I realize, yes, you have to be mindful in terms of, and I I guess uh I should have rephrased the question a little differently, which was more just in terms of the trends that you that may or may not be what get your guide moves into, but just some of the trends that you're paying attention to, because I'm assuming like uh the multi-day tour one is obviously um, I see that as being a long-term trend in terms of the fact that you have this combination of solo travelers, um especially solo female travelers, half of which are divorced or widowed, so they're looking to travel with groups. You've got this young generation coming up behind that is uh as Intrepid and others will refer to as like the loneliness epidemic. They've never been more connected than ever, but they've never felt as isolated as they do now. So they're seeking out experiences. And even EF just did a recent report that more young people are interested, uh they're less interested in dating apps than they are on going on uh group travel experiences, which having worked for Kentiki for almost a decade, you know, these things existed. And so yeah, I was just uh genuinely curious about some of the other travel trends that you're paying attention to, whether it be you know shifts in society or even the Asian market coming back in a massive way that we haven't uh fully seen yet. That's something that's uh so yeah, what are some of the other just in general trends that again may or may not be part of what get your guides focused on? Because I know you need to be have to be mindful there.
SPEAKER_02:No, absolutely. So um there is a couple uh I think that's a great question. So uh give you a couple of trends um along a couple of different um dimensions. Um so one of them is um thinking about uh geographies, and and you you highlighted the key thing, which is Asia. Um Asia, we're seeing phenomenal growth, both from an Asian customer perspective. Um I mean, remember just Japanese customers, they were locked in their country for three years. I mean, that's you know, in in Europe or North America we complain about COVID, but you know, they were um locked in and locked up for three years, meaning also nobody could go in and um and experience uh the greatness of Japan. And and so we're seeing tremendous growth in Asia, both from a customer perspective and from a destination perspective. And that is something we're we're leaning on heavily. Um, you know, that's why we're also doing this um big event now in Bangkok, um, because Asia, frankly, is a is a major, major market for us, uh, along with the US and Europe. Um, another trend that we're seeing is more in terms of the types of experiences. And what's interesting is people are really into um the type of experience where you learn something. So workshops, uh, I mean, the cooking classes were always big. Um, but now we're seeing, you know, for example, just myself, when I was in Japan um earlier this year, I did a knife making workshop, which I absolutely loved. So starting from hammering your iron and unlearning why you have to fold the iron to get the impurities out, and then you sharpen it, and then you have your final knife, which you can take home. And that's just an amazing experience, right? That's better than buying the knife for a souvenir shop. It's better than just watching knife making on TV, but you get to make your own knife. That's the perfect memory. And and that's a huge trend that we're seeing. And that's also a lot of the innovation on the operator side that we're seeing. Um, a lot. So it's a little bit this what I mentioned early days, you know, 15 years ago, it was walking tour plus souvenir shop. We've come a long way from there. And it's just also going a lot more into not niche, but into very unique interests that cater to a very unique audience because of platforms like Eti Your Guide, you can actually reach those smaller audiences, but the small audience globally is still big enough um for you to make a business on. So I would say those are two very big trends um that we're seeing. So Asia and the and the learning.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you for both of those. I yeah, and just when you highlighted the um uh whether it's uh knife making or sword making in Japan, I was wondering when you finish that, do you get to take that home with you? Is that can that come on the plane?
SPEAKER_02:Yes, of course, just not in carry-on, not in carry-on, which they remind you of. And and also you don't get to make this sword because doing a sword. So, first of all, the knife that I made, I wouldn't, it's not I I mean, I don't I don't cut with it. It's it's it's sharp, but it's it's it's it's not well done. And for a knife, you would actually need for a whole sword you would need multiple dates.
SPEAKER_01:Right. I just have a few more questions for you, Tao, and I'm gonna do some rapid fire right at the end. It's really interesting when you mentioned about the sword making, one of the companies that's re-entering the space, Airbnb experiences. It's one of the things they highlighted with sword making in Japan. And clearly they went away, they're coming back now. I've seen some of their latest commercials. What's your overall view on their reintroduction? What I mean by that is clearly there's gonna be competition. But what I often see, I'll use the example with River Cruises, for example, working with Uniworld for many years, when Viking ran commercials, we got more Uniworld bookings. And so there's certainly something to be said for lifting the category and creating growth. And so just genuinely curious to know what your view is on Airbnb going back into experiences.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so so you gave exactly the answer. So I think it's amazing. Um, I love that Airbnb is bringing attention to the category. Um, you know, I love that all these companies are talking about experiences. I I think ultimately the you know, the fact that so many businesses, both in corporate settings but auto-consumer settings and online and in advertising talk about experiences is amazing. Because, you know, I think you know, you know, we work in the industry and it's very clear that you can use something like Get Your Guide to book experiences, but it's not like 100% of you know the world's population knows that. So anyone who can bring attention to it, um, I think that that just lifts the boat, um, that lifts the tide for all boats.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's great. And it's a very much a growth mindset mentality, which is why I wanted to ask you that question, because you know, from the beginning of your journey to where you guys are now, um, it's such an incredible, inspiring success story. And I think that you guys are still on the cusp. I think the growth that you guys can have in the next five years is going to be immense. And so I'm sure you've got your projections on what the business can look like. You've got a great team that's driving it forward. So I just had a couple last questions for you on a more personal level and then a couple a few rapid fire questions. So if you're if you are looking back now at the younger Tau from 2006, 2007, um, what advice would you give yourself knowing what you know now?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'll probably send him like a book on like uh no, I think I think there um my take is there's probably good advice at different stages. There's not just one advice. Um it's funny, I tell you a quick story. So um one one one of our investors um um they they worked in a place that had 100,000 plus people, um, without going into details. But and when we um asked him for advice on so what advice do you have? And and it was great because he caveated his answer with asking us how many employees do you have? And you know, back then it's like maybe 400, 300. He said, Okay, then I give you two of my five advice points because the last three I tell you when you're bigger. So but I I think that's but I think that's really the key key thing, which is um at different stages, um, it's very different. I think the meta point I would rather give is just be in just ferocious learning mode, right? That growth mindset that you mentioned. You know, I always tell young founders your only competitive advantage is that you can work a little bit harder and that you are a faster learner than the incumbents, right? That's those are the only two assets that you have starting off. And and that is one of the assets that I think we still lean in. And I still like to claim that you know we're ferocious learner. You know, understanding problems and adapting to them. And that is certainly a meta-piece of advice that will always help entrepreneurs.
SPEAKER_01:Very cool. And how would you describe the culture that you've created at Get Your Guide? What is the management philosophy or the overall corporate culture? Because clearly people love working with your company. I've met many of your teams. I've obviously the privilege to meet a few of you guys and from outside looking in, which it's such an impressive group of team that you've built and people who have stayed with you for a long time. So tell us a little bit about your culture and why you guys have uh are able to thrive as you open new offices around the world.
SPEAKER_02:I always like to say that you never ask leadership about the culture because they will tell you anything. Um and I think you already said it yourself. It's it's best to ask the folks who work at a place, they will give you the the the honest answer. Now, I can give you the strategy that we have, uh, but I'm glad to hear that you know you're hearing similar things from the market. Our strategy has always been that we want to really codify our culture around principles, and um, you know, lots of companies have done that. And some of our principles are around uh learning. So um, you know, personal growth is very important for us, um, setting a very high bar and following through, so high passion for things. Um high curiosity. So we always say that you know um you know lead with curiosity because a lot of the problems that we have to solve have not been solved before. If you think about it, um there has never been a service marketplace built at our scale ever, right? So all marketplaces historically have been based on goods, um, or you could argue hotels as a type of service as well, but it's very different, right? Because that's brick and mortar. You sell basically a bed, uh, which is very different than we are a pure marketplace for services, which hasn't done at that scale globally. So we have to solve very, very unique problems. Um, you know, we have those leadership principles and we um treat them very seriously. So we interview based on them, we promote based on them, um, we um give feedback, um, including the annual performance review, um, partially based on them. So you have to really understand what your culture is, and that has to be, I would say, 80% um reality and 20% aspiration. So it cannot be fully inauthentic, it has to be authentic, but also a little bit aspirational. And so you want to really codify that um and then treat that as a North Star because you know, there's the famous saying that culture eats strategy for breakfast. Uh it's very, very true. You know, strategy can copy. If you get the hand on our memo, then you know the strategy does not mean that you can execute in the same way. And that goes back to what we discussed earlier of what is truly the differentiation. It goes back to execution and that goes back to culture.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, and and just to just to call out the names, like Josh Montgomery, who obviously works directly with you in the US, he was one of those people that just, you know, he had uh so many glowing things to say about you and just an open conversation about get your guy in the company. And then Reese, who put us in touch again recently, who's a newer one of your team members, also felt empowered to say, wait a second, I want us to be involved in what you guys are doing. So that's where to me, across the culture of the business, I've certainly seen that. Uh, but in terms of a few final questions, I just want to our listeners, since they've gotten to know you so well in a conversation, and and uh as we have this final rapid fire, I'm just gonna tell you that I'm not gonna box you in like Douglas Quimby does with giving you an either-or answer and trying to force you to choose. I've seen you navigate that exceptionally well on stage, but I uh I've gotta give you a few open-ended questions. If you um uh if you weren't running get your guide, what career do you think you'd be pursuing right now?
SPEAKER_02:Uh to be honest, absolutely no idea. Um I think I wouldn't mind be I think the dream job, other than being an entrepreneur, is maybe a food influencer. I think that looks really cool. Uh so I keep I keep uh I would say the best curated restaurant list of Berlin. So any of your listeners come to Berlin, uh hit me up. Uh I have a great list. Uh it's filtered across 25 dimensions, uh 200 restaurants. So um, yeah, I think food influencer sounds super fun. But it's a a friend of mine is a food influencer, it's a lot more work than uh thing.
SPEAKER_01:Now this one relates. So if you could choose one travel destination to go to tomorrow, whether it be for a week or a month, someone as deeply involved in a travel as you, what would you say is your favorite destination and why?
SPEAKER_02:I'm I'm a huge sucker for Japan. Uh I just think it's it's so wonderful and wondrous. Um I think how they strike the balance between uh tradition and modernity and beauty and chaos um is is just incredible. And and there is so many incredible experiences IP just lying around. Um I was talking to a young experienced entrepreneur in Japan, and he's created some um manga and anime-related experiences, and one of them is you get to be a voice actor for a day because the voice actress they say us in Japan is a huge deal, right? So you go to a recording studio, you get to you know voice record one of the animes, take it back home. So I think Japan is just wonderful.
SPEAKER_01:Very cool. And then one last question, and this is more for all those people out there that look to you for inspiration and guidance, and what tools are you using? So, aside from get your guide, what would be your favorite app or a tool that you can't live without?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I mean, I think I think the honest answer is probably uh my my email and and WhatsApp's uh I use superhuman, but Gmail is just as good. Um But I I would say um you know what one of my one of the books that you know I read early on in my career is uh The Effective Executive by Peter Drucker. It's an oldie but goodie. And and one of the in in chapter one, he talks about um you have to manage your time. So, you know, uh I think beyond the one tool, I think it's just constantly reviewing how you're spending your time is the best way to make sure that you keep working on the most important things.
SPEAKER_01:Well, on that note, I can't thank you enough for sharing your valuable time with us. I uh, as all of our listeners know, I have huge respect for you and get your guide, and I'm very excited to see where this company grows in the next five or ten years. And I'm sure as you can share more of those, we'll have you back on the podcast and be able to share more about Get Your Guide. And so I just wanted to say a sincere thanks for myself, the team at Travel Trends for joining us today, Tao.
SPEAKER_02:Great, Dan. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. And uh yeah, uh till next time.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks so much for joining us on our latest episode of Travel Trends. I really hope you enjoyed the conversation today with Tao Tao, the co-founder of Get Your Guide. You can find clips and highlights from today's interview on our social channels, which are LinkedIn, YouTube, and Instagram at Travel Trends Podcast. And next week we continue our Captains of Industry season six, and we'll be speaking to Heidi Durflinger, who is the CEO of EF World Journeys USA. I had the privilege to see her give an amazing keynote at the ATTA conference in Denver a few months ago. And I was very keen for her to join us as part of our Captains of Industry in season six. So if you don't know much about EF and if you haven't met Heidi before, then you have to make sure you are subscribed on the streaming platform of your choice to be notified when next week's episode goes live. And then if you're traveling in the next few months and at one of the major travel industry conferences, be sure to reach out because I might be attending, speaking, or recording. And I'd love to be able to feature anyone that is listening to our podcast when I'm recording at these events. After ATTA in Chile, I'll be at the Tourism Innovation Summit in Seville. And following that, I will be at the World Travel Market in London and then Focus Right in San Diego. And we still have our special pricing for Focus Right. If you want to check out the code on the homepage of our website and plan to join us for Focus Right in San Diego. Now, next week we are also going to be highlighting our AI summit, which is only a couple of weeks away, and some of the prizes and incentives that we have lined up. So make sure you are registered. Check out traveltrendspodcast.com for more information. Until next week, safe travels.
