Travel Trends with Dan Christian
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Travel Trends with Dan Christian
Spotlight Episode: Context Travel with CEO, June Chin-Ramsey
Imagine exploring Rome with an archaeologist who's unearthed its ancient secrets, wandering Tokyo with an architect shaping its skyline, or navigating Barcelona's vibrant markets with a culinary expert who knows every vendor by name. This is the transformative experience Context Travel has been perfecting for over two decades.
In this conversation with CEO June Chin-Ramsey, we discuss how Context Travel is redefining guided tours through its unwavering commitment to expert-led experiences. Unlike traditional tour companies that rely on guides reciting memorized scripts, Context exclusively collaborates with academics and professionals holding advanced degrees. These experts bring depth and authenticity to every tour, making complex topics not only accessible but also deeply engaging. As June explains, "They actually make the most exceptional guides because they're able to take fascinating, complex concepts and make them simple, digestible, and entirely relatable."
The company’s journey began in Rome as a rebellion against the cookie-cutter approach of mass tourism - those all-too-familiar scenes of large groups trailing behind flag-waving guides at overcrowded landmarks. Instead, Context pioneered intimate, small-group walking tours where personalization and meaningful connections take center stage. This philosophy has fueled their growth to nearly 70 cities across six continents, from iconic cultural hubs like Paris and London to dynamic, emerging destinations like Mexico City and Seoul.
Whether you're a history buff, an art lover, or a curious traveler, Context Travel offers more than just a tour - it’s an invitation to see the world through the eyes of an expert. We hope you enjoy this spotlight episode.
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Because they are expert-led tours, we are able to tailor them to the interest of whoever is standing in front right, like whether that's an 8-year-old child or an 80-year-old Nona with an insatiable curiosity about. You know, this is my first time in Croatia and I'm going back home to Sicily for the 10th time we're able to kind of satiate their curiosity.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone and welcome to a special spotlight episode of Travel Trends. This is your host, Dan Christian, and in today's episode, we're going to be speaking to the CEO of Context Travel, jun Chin. Now, context Travel is a company, as you'll hear from Jun, has been around for over 20 years. It was started in Rome and the whole concept was around providing travelers with either master's degree or PhD guides and giving small groups and also private tours.
Speaker 2:I had the privilege of doing one in Barcelona recently after the Focusrite conference, and it was extraordinary. Brendan gave me a tour of the markets. I'm a huge fan of markets and he actually took me to a number of the markets. I'm a huge fan of markets and he actually took me to a number of local markets. He knew the people, they knew him. I had the most amazing time. It was a one-on-one tour. I've not done that before. I will definitely be doing it again and I'll definitely be booking through Context Travel. I have quite a few friends and colleagues that have traveled with Context Travel over the years and loved it, so it was a real delight to finally sit down with June Chin learn more about Context Travel. If you're interested in more of our spotlight episodes. Be sure to check out TravelTrendscom slash spotlights. Now let's bring June into the conversation. June, it's fantastic to have you on Travel Trends. Welcome and thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1:Thanks, dan, super excited to be here. Travel Trends is an awesome podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. That means a lot, especially coming from you, because, as I've gotten to know you, I mean I was always a big fan of Context Travel, but you've actually come in to lead this brand. So actually tell everyone, if you wouldn't mind, just a bit of your background in tourism and how you came to be the CEO of Context Travel.
Speaker 1:Sure, definitely not your cookie cutter background, but I was actually in emerging markets investments before context, and I was traveling the world, uh, spending a lot of time over in Asia and Europe and South America, and I was not doing it the way I wanted to do it. And, you know, I saw a uh a context. Um, I got, I wanted to get getting in house and, uh, I saw a context, ad, uh, love travel knew there had to be a better way to do it. I had experienced the product in New York and so I reached out and you know, kind of the rest is history In 2020, when everybody was kind of running away from it, I stepped up. You know, I stepped up even more and took over as a CEO and it's been phenomenal.
Speaker 2:That's fantastic, and the reason I wanted to ask that is that this is where it's very interesting when you see people that have either come up in the industry, that are innovators and that you know have learned the craft, and other people that actually come into this industry that have disrupted other sectors, and that's what stood out to me from your background and in getting time with you, it's just like you've been able to very quickly get your hands around this role and be able to grow and scale this business, which is all the things I want to get into because it's such a fascinating company and background. But yeah, so let's let all our listeners in. For those people who are not familiar with Context Travel, give us a bit of the background about how this company was created and a bit of an overview of what you guys do.
Speaker 1:Sure thanks. So our founders, Paul and Lonnie Bennett they were an expat couple living in Rome in the early 2000s and Lonnie Bennett, they were an expat couple living in Rome in the early 2000s, and you know, they were just tired, dan, of seeing all of these 50 person tour groups hopping on and off the buses, trampling the cultural and heritage sites of this beautiful city, and they said there had to be a better way. And so they founded Context Travel, almost almost as a protest against mass tourism Small, very small group walking tours led by a local expert.
Speaker 2:Very interesting and then tell us where it started and I guess where I guess the core business was. Because one of the things I'm intrigued about context travel is you organize excursions with experts, you know, like the professors, and this is the sort of thing that like even the whole idea of context. I mean I'm a history buff, so like the professors and and this is the sort of thing that like and even the whole idea of context. I mean I'm a history buff, so like the idea of context is everything in many ways of like you know, you don't go visit an art gallery. It's like someone needs to give you the context, um, to really appreciate it. So I've always loved the branding. But yeah, tell us how that related to the types of experiences you've offered and and where it all really kind of got started yeah, sure and sure, and so it got started in Rome, as I mentioned.
Speaker 1:And I think the biggest thing as you called it right out that sets us apart from any other company is that we have experts, not guides, right? So what do I mean by that? You won't be taken around by a college kid that's memorized a script. Our experts, they're carefully selected for their knowledge and their unique ability to frame that knowledge in the context of people, place, history and culture. And I'll be honest, you know, sometimes people hear, oh, an expert-led walking tour, and they've never been on that and you're a history buff. So I think you get it right. But sometimes I get well, oh, most of you. What do you mean by experts? Most of your guides have masters and PhDs. That's that sounds scary, that sounds a little bit not fun or intimidating, and it's quite the opposite. They actually make the most exceptional guides because they're able to take these really fascinating, complex concepts and just make it simple, digestible, entirely relatable.
Speaker 2:Well, it's interesting because certainly it is the case that most travelers are looking for the insider perspective.
Speaker 2:They're looking for the expert advice from locals and, as you just described that, actually someone with a deep degree of expertise.
Speaker 2:It's actually what most people are trying to make sure that they're going to get on their next holiday because they want to make the most of their time, their precious time that they have for their vacation, to make sure that they have the best possible experience. And so you know, you do have companies that highlight that they're expert guides, but, to your point, what level of expertise you know if they've been there for many years or they have local knowledge. But this is where I was really intrigued with how this company got started and how important that has been to create a differentiator in the marketplace. So tell us a little bit more about that, because I think that's obviously, you know, so critical for any business to succeed in scale is, you know, having a differentiator. That's not necessarily price and the experience someone's going to have with context travel they're not going to get elsewhere. So tell us a little bit about, I guess, what that means in terms of the actual experience.
Speaker 1:On, sure thing. So you know, I mentioned that we were very small groups before, right, and it was almost started as a protest against mass tourism. But the other thing is our, a core value of ours is is learning, right, and so we. The other premise is like travel is the ultimate form of education and one that's like best served with a heaping side of memorable conversation, right? So you know, imagine going to. You know, imagine going to not Pompeii, but Ostia Antica with an archaeologist that's actually dug and excavated history there. Or imagine walking around.
Speaker 1:You know, my family and I just walked around last summer, tokyo, with a practicing architect that's developing the city, and you know he took us into a home that he had actually helped build for this famous architect and it had this amazing pre and post-war structures. It was absolutely just phenomenal. And so you talk about locals, you talk about this move towards kind of authentic local experiences and we give that it's like having, if you think about then traveling to a city where you have a best friend, that best friend knows all the bars, they know all the restaurants to go to, they know the hole-in-the-wall places that will just make you feel truly special. But now layer on top of that, the most knowledgeable, best friend, right that will be able to kind of put everything in context for you.
Speaker 2:That's certainly how I came to know Context Travel and while I was so keen to speak to you when we got a chance to meet at dinner, I was just like I'm such a fan of the brand and I'm really intrigued by the business and obviously getting your insider perspective on how the company has evolved and changed. You know ownership and your overall strategic expansion plans, because the company certainly obviously has a great expertise in walking tours, which you know. There's obviously the private walking tours, there's museums you can have like food, wine and market tours. I'm a huge fan of markets, so that's massively appeals to me. But you also do audio guides and that's just something that I also.
Speaker 2:So tell us a little bit about. I know you kindly mentioned that the business kind of got started in Italy, but you really are global now and the number of tours that you offer. So tell us a little bit about the I guess the expansion Was it focus on. Let's expand the walking tours globally. Where did the audio guides come in? And, I guess, what is the breakdown of the business today?
Speaker 1:Sure, so we are global.
Speaker 1:I think the number keeps changing, but I believe we're somewhere close to 70 cities around the world, six different continents, been to five of them so far, and you know in terms of how.
Speaker 1:So, from Italy, you know, we are in all of the major cultural capitals that you would expect in Europe Rome, paris, london, barcelona, amsterdam but you know, as we, one of the, besides learning, another big value of ours is connection, and human connection, right. And so I think what sets us apart is we establish that connection not just on the ground with the clients and the experts, but between context, the company and the clients, right. And so, as we got to know our travelers, our guests, as we got to know where they were going, what they, what their interests were, how they like to travel, we expanded with them. Some of them still tell us we haven't, we're not expanding fast enough. We're from South America to Asia, we're far beyond just kind of the cultural capitals of Europe at this point. And then, during your question about digital and audio guides, we are the idea behind that. Actually, you know, crisis is the mother of all innovation and during the pandemic.
Speaker 1:That's kind of when that concept was first birthed and it actually started because we knew that there was a problem between both for our customers that were lacking the ability to travel they're sitting at home and our experts that were all around the globe trying to figure out how they were going to make a living. And so what we did was we connected them online, not like trying to walk around a barren city, you know, with a webcam, but we just connected them online as people and that kind of forged this relationship from their digital content kind of surface and it just kind of created this lasting stickiness. I'll pause there and see.
Speaker 2:No, I'm glad you mentioned that because it's one of the things that you know. This show obviously was an outcome of the pandemic itself to try to understand traveler behavior post pandemic and what changed. And certainly one of the things I was working on during the pandemic was virtual tours with Amazon and you know, obviously Airbnb moved in that direction. So I'm glad I asked this because I was genuinely curious and didn't know that that was the case. But that makes total sense. But the thing I'm keen to know from your perspective because a number of companies decided to shut down some of those programs, like Airbnb to Amazon moved away from it with doing some of these virtual tours and I actually thought there was something quite meaningful and exciting there.
Speaker 2:And I genuinely love audio guides. I like the idea of being able to choose a guide, but if you don't have the right time and availability, I like the idea of being able to choose a guide, but if you don't have the the right time and availability, I love the idea of being able to freedom and independence, to be able to go at your own pace, and so, um, I liked it before. I still, I still love this idea. Now. I've done a number of different audio guided tours and I I really enjoy it so. So how have you seen that now, in 2025, with how important that is to your business? Is it important to get people to consider context? Is it a great feeder opportunity to get people to take the walking tours? How have you balanced that? Because, again, some people have moved away from it. It seems like you guys are. You've built up a strength there.
Speaker 1:So how do you see?
Speaker 2:that playing into your strategy.
Speaker 1:It's definitely a way for us to engage and continue in a natural conversation year round and be relevant year round to our customers, right? Because how many times are most people doing long haul international travel? Once, maybe twice a year? Some of our brand you know, brand advocates are traveling 10 times, but not for most people. And so I think it does two things.
Speaker 1:For me, inclusivity has always been very important, as well as business, and it democratizes access to our experts, right? And the other thing, too, is most of our travelers are FIT travelers, free, independent travelers. They kind of want to do their own planning. They might want to go with an art historian to a museum one day, they might want to do a market tour with a culinary expert another day. But when they first land on the ground, we always say you should never do an in-person experience. You don't know what your flight's like, you don't know how jet lag you're going to be, you don't know how you're going to feel.
Speaker 1:So we recommend the audio guide content for that first day. They just checked into the hotel and maybe their room isn't ready yet and they're walking around and you plug in an audio guide for an hour and get your intro to the city, get your lay of the land and it's fantastic. And then they go meet our actual in-person guides later in the week and they have that context already, so it just enriches the experience. The other thing we have is pre-trip talks. So internally we say like talks and walks right, and so the talks are great as something to watch before they arrive in city. And we work also besides direct-to-consumer. We work with a lot of travel agencies and this allows the travel agents to be specialists for all the destinations that Context is in, because they're what we found. We didn't even intend it to be for them, we intended it to be for the customers traveling, but they're finding that this content is helping them to become an expert and service their clients even better, and so it's interesting how that's kind of evolved as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. And the other thing I was keen to know, given the fact that what my understanding is, most of the tours are English language is clearly with audio, there's an opportunity to very easily translate. But when it comes to your core markets I mean we talked about the business starting in Rome You're obviously based in New York City. The US is clearly a massive outbound travel market, or even domestic for that matter. But yeah, where would be sort of the, I guess, the big markets for context travel? Where are you seeing that growth in terms of the source markets, Because clearly you're opening up new destinations all the time?
Speaker 1:yeah, we are. We are still heavily on north american outbound, lots of americans and canadians. We do have quite a lot of um or growing base out of mexico and brazil as well. I'd say um and interestingly, as we've been partnering with more of the luxury travel advisors, do like consortia, like Virtuoso Signature, it's tapping into other travel corridors like UK outbound, even Australia outbound, etc.
Speaker 2:Got it Okay, that's good. A helpful context, because I would assume that some of those luxury travelers like that fit into your. I mean, when I've not had the privilege of doing a context travel, I will make that.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, Dan. You told me that last time when I said we're going to get you on a tour, yeah. You have to, we have to stop that.
Speaker 2:Definitely, it's my commitment to you for making the time for this conversation. I will absolutely, on my next trip, do a context travel experience. I guess that's where what I was looking, though, and just doing research in advance of our call. Some of looking, though, and just doing research in advance of our call. Some of the prices are very reasonable, um, uh, for these, uh, and so in terms of, but I would assume that you actually would have, uh, private tours and, and certainly many affluent travelers. You know, obviously there's a direct correlation between those people that are highly educated and tend to travel and also have higher incomes and therefore can, can, can spend more on travel. So, when you think about that customer that you're marketing to, I guess, is luxury and affluent travelers a major market for you, or is it just one of many markets that you are able to realize, because this actually has broader mass appeal?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say our core regional base definitely skewed, affluent, highly educated, kind of customer based demographic. I think it does have much wider appeal. You know I have had friends say oh well, you know, I don't know if that's true, I'm a lawyer, I'm a banker and I don't know if that's me and actually a lot, lots of our customers are folks that aren't, they haven't done the humanities track and they miss that aspect of their lives and they kind of want to understand a place deeper. So we do try and have we have private tours, we have semi-private tours and then we have a small group options as well, and so, as well as the digital content, so we are trying to make sure that we have entry level products for someone that maybe is just kind of dipping their toe into. You know what is this exactly People are talking about these kind of expert led experiences. I don't want to miss out, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to kind of pay the price for a private tour.
Speaker 2:So let me hop on a small group, let me try and one of audio guides and it's kind of giving them access to the brand and then they get a taste of it and they want to kind of take that next step. And we certainly all saw this post-pandemic and actually Douglas Quimby had highlighted just at ITB recently a graphic of the number of people that traveled private In 2018, it was about 17%. In 2024, it was 47% um had taken a private tour, right? So it's just like so clearly you guys are in that sweet spot as well that like it makes total sense. People have realized that, wait a second, I can actually just book a private guide and have my own exclusive tour. So, like you have that option and that's why I say even the cost of those is um accessible.
Speaker 2:But then, for sure, when I see some of the price points of being able to join a group tour, um, because my perception of context travel was that it was, you know it is premium and clearly that is the the experience, but it's great that it's accessible because I think you know you only have students, you're going to have people that that just just want that level of expertise and content. So so where are, in terms of actually building out the product, given that you do have such a, I guess, a wide selection of options? Where are you seeing the most interest in growth, and are there specific areas that you're already looking at going into 2026 that you're looking to, you know, add new experiences to the collection.
Speaker 1:Sure. So I mean geographically, we are seeing tremendous growth to Japan, right To Japan, and you know, I'd say even Asia more broadly we're currently developing Seoul, korea. I think that people, you know, maybe they weren't quite ready to do that in 2022, 2023, but 2024, 2025, it's happening in droves. And I think what's happening is there are onsites or DMCs on the ground in Japan that have kind of local guides, but they don't really know how to appeal to a North American audience base and kind of how do you have that expertise and the knowledge but how do you also bring that alive? And that's where Context has been able to fill, I think, a really big gaping hole, and so we're seeing phenomenal growth there In terms of the types of other types of experiences.
Speaker 1:I personally have a 13-year-old now. She was seven or eight when I started at Context and she's 13 now, and so I've been, myself and the team, we've been really excited to further grow our family portfolio for tweens and teens. It's kind of at that age where they're starting to love this a lot more than their parents. And you know, I'm holding up audio. It's audio only, but I'm holding up my smart, my iPhone, and so kind of building out. The family portfolio is huge. We're seeing a lot of multi-generational travel, heritage travel, people that want to take, you know, their kids, their grandkids, to Central Europe and see the places where you know their poppy lived before they immigrated to the US.
Speaker 2:Those are all great trends for sure. I'm glad you pointed a few of those out, especially multi-generational travel. Being a big driver, with grandparents paying for not only their kids but their grandkids, partly because they can and obviously they want that time together, so that's been an interesting development. And that heritage travel it's interesting that that has almost, you know, has resurfaced in importance and popularity, with people trying to trace their roots and especially with Europe, and I guess the one thing along those lines as we, you know, sit here together, a Canadian and American in 2025, we obviously know there's various geopolitical challenges around the world.
Speaker 2:The one thing that has really stood out to me, having just been in Europe for a couple of weeks, is that Europe was, for many of us, it is a central hub for tourism, and I would say that from my perspective I'm keen to get your take here is that actually, given everything that's going on in the world today, europe is becoming that much more prominent and important again that people want to travel to Europe, and there's always been great reasons to travel Europe, but it seems like it's, from what I'm seeing and hearing, even having more of a renaissance this year, despite the fact that some people will say, oh, italy is overcrowded and you know some of those destinations are overheated in the summertime and people sure have flocked to Northern Europe or to Asia, but Europe is such a um, an incredible destination for this style of travel. So I guess, yeah, I'd love to know the signals you're seeing this year. Are you seeing more demand for Europe? Are you starting to see it spread out across the regions?
Speaker 1:I know, obviously you, you mentioned Japan, but beyond Japan and Asia, are you seeing more interest to South America? What are Paris, london? But what we're seeing is a lot more secondary markets as well. We're seeing, you know I think you mentioned the Nordic kind of northern parts. Because of the over not just over tourism in some of the flagship cities, but also this kind of intense heat in the last couple of years and the climate changes, folks are going kind of further north. We're also seeing trends towards. You know we're seeing a lot of travelers to Mexico City, south America, buenos Aires, argentina. I think you know, even for this, there's plenty of articles out there about like how travel got so overpriced in 2023, and so there was this move towards, even for luxury folks that had the money, where can I go, um, where my dollar will really go a really long way, and you know, and so they're looking at things. You install it again. You install it, you know, to to the peso, etc yeah, that's a really good point.
Speaker 2:that's one of the reasons that I, you know, certainly that travel to japan took off, as you know, and people realized they did the math and all of a sudden it was actually much more affordable because Japan was always seen as such a um, an expensive travel destination. And then certainly, places like Columbia, as I've highlighted on our show that you know, it's like 20% of the cost of what you'd otherwise pay in the U? S. So it's like your money goes so far and I feel it's so exciting as a traveler to uh, to go for dinner and have it be $40. And you've had, you know, you've had a small group and two bottles of wine. It was like, how can this be?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd taken my, my, my exec team out to like a really nice Michelin star in Mexico city when we were there and it was, you know it was, it was phenomenal, and so you can get those types of experiences and the US of the Frida Kahlo museum and all those you know, other great kind of really cultural places.
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure. Just on that topic, since you mentioned about your own travels, I'm very curious to know, june, where have you experienced some of the context travel? I'm sure you've done a lot of travel You're a global traveler but what would be a couple of standout experiences that you've had that you would recommend to our listeners to say this is one of our best offerings?
Speaker 1:Tell us a couple of your highlights from, uh, from traveling with context this is always a question that I get and always one that I struggle with because there are just so many and I hate having to pick out a favorite child, but I I guess I think one of the beauty, you know, one of the beautiful things about working for, you know, and running a kind of a global company, is that I can always find an experience, depending on the circumstance and my mood at that moment, right of the trip, right and so, like when I'm traveling by myself. For example, when I went to Rome by myself, I loved going, doing our Caravaggio tour, and kind of discovering these masterpieces, not just in the Vatican but all around the churches that were tucked away, and I had no idea, you know, that there were these Caravaggio paintings hanging right up in these churches. That was a special experience for me.
Speaker 1:If I travel with my husband, who's more of like a Caribbean kind of beach vacation guy, you know, he's also a martial artist, though, and he loved Japan, right, and so when we went to Tokyo, him and my daughter were all about well, we got to try the food.
Speaker 1:My husband wanted sushi, my daughter thought sushi meant salmon sushi rolls, and so you know it was a phenomenal experience where you know they got to learn a lot more about. You know I mentioned earlier kind of the architect that took us around into actual homes that he had developed. My daughter ran around like pretending like she lived there and then she learned you, and then she learned that she loved Wagyu beef and udon things that she had never tried here, and now we're buying tons of udon soups from Costco those sorts of transformative things that I get to experience, not just myself as an individual traveler, when I'm traveling with my colleague that are museum lovers and history buffs, but even with my family that typically wouldn't have done these vacation lists by themselves. We're creating these kind of really meaningful moments together.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I'm sure the term that we've also heard repeated far too many times is immersive experiences. That certainly started, you know, like there's lots of local now immersive experiences and what is an immersive experience. But one of the things that certainly makes an experience much more immersive is when it's personalized or it's kind of catered to you, and you kind of mentioned that there. I guess that's one of the things. When you have people that have specific interests in history or culture or cuisine or language and like visiting museums, how much can you do to personalize for a group or for an individual? And also, just out of curiosity, if that plays a role in people coming back to context travel, because you're able to then personalize their next trip based on what you've learned about them. How does that play in, or does it? I think that's a great question.
Speaker 1:Because they are expert-led tours, we are able to tailor them to the interest of whoever is standing in front right, like whether that's an eight-year-old child or an 80-year-old Nona alike with an insatiable curiosity about. You know, this is my first time in Croatia and I'm going back home to Sicily for the 10th time we're able to kind of satiate their curiosity. In terms of personalization, I think, again, it comes down to the expertise and the people, right? And so when we hire, recruit, you know we're recruiting, we're hiring, we are interviewing them just as we would our full-time staff, and we're fully vetting them, and then we trust them at that point. And so you know we go through training, we go through onboarding and we're fully vetting them, and then we trust them at that point. And so you know we go through training, we go through onboarding, but we know we encourage, we allow them and in fact we even we really encourage them to take into account who's standing in front of you, what's the moments, the conditions on the streets at that time, and like, yes, you know you might want to hit like these three points during your trip, but you might, maybe you want to swap something out because you've learned something about your client.
Speaker 1:They're interested in modern. You know they're interested in modern art and so you want to. You know you're going to take them to another, a smaller museum that really showcases that just learned about, I don't know, the French Revolution, and so you want to kind of walk down another street and kind of talk a little bit about the rebellions that happened there. That's kind of what we're empowering, this personalization, and then we write it. The experts have notes, they put it back into the system and we keep them for next time. We attach it to the customer profile. So when they're traveling elsewhere it's like, oh yeah, this kid was eight now. He's 12 years old now and he's traveling with his grandparents. This time we already know something about that kid.
Speaker 2:That's really fascinating when I think about the company that you've built and they're now leading and there's a lot of competition, and so one of the challenges for sure, I mean, look at a company like Airbnb and their experiences.
Speaker 2:I mean, if they're relaunching it now, there's this perception there's a big opportunity here, but a lot of companies do struggle to remain relevant, to come up with the right product offering operationally, as you talked about saying, you know, in terms of recruiting this talent, retaining them, uh, you know as going through your website and looking at all the amazing people that, uh, that operate these tours, and that's a big factor for for me, as a traveler, to validate who is going to be leading this, and looking at their backgrounds, which was just so impressive.
Speaker 2:So obviously you have to um, it's always going to be difficult to recruit and train and and, uh, retain those people. But tell us a little bit more about what really does set context travel apart and why you have had such significant growth and success. Um, that and I think that's that's certainly come out in a number of the things you've highlighted so far, but I'd love to dive into that a little bit further, because there's obviously got to be a lot of things that you do that are quite unique to your point about personalization, that attract repeat guests but also continue to grow the consideration set. So what are some of the other things that context does that have become competitive advantages for you in the marketplace?
Speaker 1:I think, very Simply, it comes down to the people, the quality and the level of care right, and you know, in terms of how we think about our experiences, it's not just for the customer, because on the other side of that experience is our expert right, and they're part of the community and we are trying to enrich the experience for all the people involved in the context community, both the customers, the experts, the employees, all of our partners.
Speaker 1:And I think that that's really special because it's not just like we are trying to match demand and supply, where we're not an algorithm that's just trying to aggregate supplier, aggregate tours. We are hyper-focused on curating the experience and knowing that behind every great experience is this phenomenal person right. And so you know we're doing I just talked about it on LinkedIn. You know we're reading Unreasonable Hospitality as a company with staff, and we invited all of our experts around the globe to join that book club discussion, and so you know it's really about like integrating everybody as part of a bigger whole and this kind of interconnectedness. I think that's such a support.
Speaker 2:That's great. Did that answer the?
Speaker 1:question Dan.
Speaker 2:Very well, June, as I would expect from you, and this is where I've got, oh, I've got so many questions for you, but I'm like I want to try and uh, one other one.
Speaker 2:You um picked up your phone and just referred, which obviously stood out to me, with technology.
Speaker 2:We were talking a bit about audio guides. Clearly, with AI and some of this tech, and we don't have to do a deep dive into AI, there's certainly enough um discussions on this topic, so I'm not going to hammer you with a bunch of AI questions, but certainly, you know, when, you see, I saw an AI session of the ITB and Google was up there holding out, you know, people asking questions of, like the Brandon brigade, like tell me more about this, and like, so, clearly there is a lot more happening with technology and how it's going to impact travel. I'm just genuinely curious about how you see the role of technology at context travel, whether it's AI or virtual reality, but, like, given the key focus is human led in destination experiences, where do you see the role of technology and how are you leveraging it? Um, you know, either as the guest experience or even just, uh, you know, in the day-to-day operations of the business. So I guess, where do you see the role of technology in you know guided tours for people in 2025 and beyond?
Speaker 1:Sure Um AI. It's a hot topic at every single conference and every single panel discussion for people in 2025 and beyond.
Speaker 1:Sure AI. It's a hot topic at every single conference, every single panel discussion. I will say so. I mean, there's no doubt AI is going to revolutionize the travel industry from every part in the customer journey, from planning to booking to the in-destination experience. That said, it will never, ever replace the need for human connection and, in fact, I think it is going to drive that need higher and higher People. You know they're supposedly connected 24-7. You know they're training chat GPT to be their personal admins and you know they're walking around like glued to their iPhones, but you know, at the end of the day, they're feeling more disconnected than ever before in history.
Speaker 2:Right, and so I think that we have to be really careful about how AI and tech is going to drive people away from being present in the moment there and trains, a lot of guides, and someone like alex bainbridge runs a company called autora which is very focused on um ai-led tours and the question about where the human role comes into play. So I've seen those debates and I think that's where and I've had them both on our, our podcast, and I think it doesn't move the conversation forward if there's just two very strong views. It's like, well, actually, um, there is a role for it to play, and how? How best can you? You factor that into your business but not necessarily change the guest experience, because ultimately it you know your business fundamentally is is about that human connection and being able to have the expert-led guide. You can get facts and information from chat, gpt or from any number of sources, but in terms of actually someone in front of you being able to navigate through so, so I guess where I'm going with this.
Speaker 2:I'm assuming then you're you're not looking at any way to replace that human touch with technology. That you know the human element is clearly one of the the biggest differentiators you're going to have going forward is that you have that expert-led guide. So, if anything, it sounds like to me, june, if I'm hearing you correctly, you're going to lean into that more at a time when people are feeling disconnected, and so there's not a view that you guys are going to become more of a tech company. You guys are going to lean on the fact you've you know you're a people first organization and you're there for the human touch and connection. Is that?
Speaker 1:fair. That's very fair. We will never lean away from the human connection. We will be leaning into it quite hard and continue to do so in 2025 and beyond. That said, we are a tech-powered, tech-enabled company. The way we are able to scale that human connection experience is through our platform, is through tech. There's AI working in the background to generate. You know, our engineers are using it every day, and even our operational folks. It's really interesting.
Speaker 1:We just did this exercise, you know, with the leadership team, and we were like stop looking at our site, stop looking at competitors' site. You're traveling by yourself right now. You're traveling with your family right now to Barcelona, to London, to pick your city. What are you going to do? Right, and half of them went to Google and half of them went to chat, gpt, and it became really interesting. So what did we find? What did we learn by this experience? And so we are really. We can't pretend it doesn't exist. We're not pretending it doesn't exist. We're going in, eyes wide open, into like, how can we now use this to make ourselves, to learn, how can we learn from this, grow from this and make ourselves even better than before? But again, it's going to amplify, not replace, the human connection.
Speaker 2:Then, when we think about the guest experience, you kindly highlighted a couple of the trends.
Speaker 2:One of the things I just wanted to better understand from your vantage point is what are some of the other consumer trends you're seeing? And specifically, one thing I wanted to ask you on that is, um, the journey, because you mentioned about ai changing all aspects of travel and one of the things is like when someone books a context travel uh, experience, uh, where are they in their, uh, their journey in terms of like, have they already booked their trip to Europe and are looking for? Are they in destination? I guess booking is one thing I'm keen to know how much of it is, is advanced Um, and where do you see it fitting into the booking flow? Are they making the decisions to take context travel first and planning around it, or are they planning a trip and then adding it in? I'm just genuinely keen to know, um, keen to know how it's working today, how it's evolving and changing and some of those things that you have a unique vantage point of figuring out how best to market position this business.
Speaker 2:So I'm genuinely curious what you're seeing as far as consumer behavior.
Speaker 1:Sure, and I think consumer behavior is shifting. If you had asked me five years ago, I could tell you our exact bookings to service day trends, you know, and it was. It was the same as it was in 2010, as it was in 2007, you know, 17. But now I think it's shifting. We are still seeing a lot of people booking anywhere between two weeks, I would say, to two to three months before their time and destination with us. But we're also seeing that shift. We're seeing some people, you know, maybe they'll book their first thing a little bit further out, one month before, and then they'll have a fantastic experience. They realize they have an extra, you know, an extra day or an afternoon that's free and they'll want to hop on another one until they'll do that in destination Are people, have they already booked? Still, I would say. I'd like to say that they go experience first, but the reality is you still have a lot of people that have booked their flight, they've booked their hotel and then they book their experience.
Speaker 1:But we are hearing, especially from our repeat customers that come back because we talk to them not just before the trip and during the trip, but after the trip as well. You know, how was it? What can we do better than next time? What did you love about you know, what did you love about this particular experience? And they'll tell us, you know, I'll almost say, where are you going next? Of course you know.
Speaker 1:And they'll say, oh, somewhere in. I've been here, here, here and here I'll. You know, I might want to go to istanbul, uh, next, uh. So they'll tell us they haven't booked it, but I haven't booked anything yet. It'll be a few months out. Make a little note. And you know well, a few months before you know, we'll check back in somewhere between a few months from that conversation, a few months before, when they said they were going, uh, and and see where they are, but they kind of, and so we're trying to catch them earlier in that journey. But still, I would say, to be fair, a lot of folks are still booking flight and hotel first and then they experience your activity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 2:Then you've highlighted there just the complexity of the travel booking process and for companies trying to figure out how best to position themselves whether it is that in-destination people are already in Rome and now we're looking for something to do, or they're planning their trip ahead of the time, and obviously you need to be there for both.
Speaker 2:The other thing I was also keen to ask you about is you are a B Corp, and I was actually one of the things I was really impressed to see, and we haven't touched on that yet, but I wanted to bring it up in the context of sustainability and responsible stewardship, which we know is so important to all of us that love this industry so much, and it's something that I was keen to know how that impacts the experiences you offer, because obviously you know when you do have the community connection or you know just environmental elements you need to be aware of and so protecting these communities and also these places so that for future generations, obviously that's such an important part to all travel companies today.
Speaker 2:So I guess, knowing you're a b corp which I was again thrilled to see because that's so important you can obviously kindly explain what a b corp is because you guys have been, I guess, since 2011. Um, uh, we've had a few guests on the show, like james thornton from intrepid or untours, and and so, um, but by all means, highlight a few more details about why you guys are B Corp and what it means. But, specifically, I'd love to understand how that translates into the experiences you offer and how you weave in responsible, sustainable travel.
Speaker 1:Sure, so we've been. The B Corp aspect is extremely important to us, you know, and I'm sure there are people that can explain it more eloquently than I. But the way I like to think about it is you know, we're not just a company that's focused on, you know, on profits. We're focused on the other P's as well the people, the planet, right, and for us, you know, how do we encourage responsible, sustainable travel? What does it mean? Certainly, in very simplest form. We're walking tours. Right, we're not hopping on and off buses or driving people, you know, around in, in, in, in, in cars, uh, every day, we're doing walking tours, uh, and we are having the conversation. I think the first it starts with an awareness, really, uh, and so we are talking. We don't have all the solutions, but we are definitely talking about the problem of over-tourism with our experts on a regular basis, and we're encouraging them in turn to talk about it with all of our guests on the ground. How do you be and I think intentionality is a word that we use a lot at Context and how do you just be more intentional about where you're spending your money, where you are eating, what are the implications of like, you know, getting on, you know, of just of going.
Speaker 1:Yes, you might want to see the musty attractions. If you go to Barcelona, you're going to want to be amazed by the architecture of the Sagrada Familia. You're going to want to see the impact of the stained glass. You know the sun coming through the stained glass windows but, like you know, if you go to, if you go more off the beaten path, you will have the experience that really allows you to see the lens of the city. You know much more authentically through the life of the locals there. And so we're encouraging, you know, we certainly encourage folks to think about these decisions.
Speaker 1:Right, like, what you think is going to be the best part of your trip that you'll be talking about for years to come might not be at the Colosseum or the Louvre or the Sagrada Familia. You know. It will probably be in, you know, in some other smaller museum, in some of the neighborhood. Um, and it's kind of about the it's it's that feeling, that that we're trying to create and build um and that understanding. Quite frankly, I feel like I went a little away from the b corp question, but really it kind of comes back to how do you think about travel, uh, and how do you just be much, much more intentional about it?
Speaker 2:june. I've really enjoyed this conversation. I find I could definitely go on and on. I definitely obviously have to get on a context travel, but just before we wrap up and give everyone a chance to find out where best to connect with you and learn more about the team, tell us a little bit about just what's ahead for context travel as a business. I know we've talked a lot about the product and a lot about the experiences and, like I would just love to know, as you're, you know talking to the team and planning for your future, what are some of the other exciting developments we can look forward to?
Speaker 1:We have spent the last two decades perfecting the best, the best part of the trip, right? I mean, luxury has taken on such a different connotation and the industry has gotten so commoditized in terms of like hotels and kind of you know, and the restaurants. Everybody's trying to create this experience. We already have it.
Speaker 1:We spent the last 20 years perfecting half and full day experiences that people are going to talk about for generations to come, and I think as a company, we're seeing that being recognized now, you know, in kind of in the partnership space, right, places that had focused on hotels or concierge service like kind of like card you know, card benefits or vacation stay rentals, whatever it might be. I think big banks they're all thinking about now. What's my hook? Right, I need some sort of experience that will give me differentiated value, and I really do think that kind of context has been at the forefront of that conversation long before things like expert-led or authentic local travel or hidden gems or even buzzwords, and so I'm really, really excited about not just 2025, but the next two decades to come for us.
Speaker 2:No, that's great, and I think that there is a very bright future, not only for this category but specifically for context, and it certainly validated for me having this conversation with you. I was certainly looking forward to it. I would say it exceeded my expectations. I mean, you clearly are a dynamic leader of a company that is poised for continued growth and success and a very important part of the overall travel community, so I'm very keen to continue to follow your journey. I've certainly wish you and the team every success in that. The next two decades to come, where travelers are going to double, you know that we're expecting there to be, you know, going from 400 to 800 million travelers. So the types of organizations that handle this well are obviously going to be the most successful, and they're the ones that we need to learn from. So I thank you so much, june, for joining us, for sharing all these valuable insights and advice, and I look forward to keeping in touch and seeing you on a Context Travel Experience sometime this year.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much Dan.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much for joining us on this special spotlight of Travel Trends. I hope you enjoyed our conversation today with the CEO of Context Travel, june Chin. For more information, definitely check out contexttravelcom, and if you're interested in more of our spotlight episodes, be sure to check out traveltrendscom. Slash spotlights. Until next time, safe travels.
