Event Spotlight: ATTA Elevate Denver 2025 Road Trip Edition

Join us as we hit the road to Denver for a special edition of Travel Trends, recorded live at the Adventure Travel Trade Association’s (ATTA) Elevate Conference.

Set against the stunning backdrop of Colorado’s beauty, this episode takes you straight into the heart of the $896 billion adventure travel industry. It’s a celebration of sustainability, outdoor exploration, and the magic of human connection in a world that’s increasingly digital.

Think of this as your ultimate road trip playlist - featuring 15 intimate conversations with the trailblazers shaping the future of adventure tourism. From tech innovators and conservation champions to Indigenous leaders and destination dreamers, these voices share one thing in common: a deep love for people, planet, and place.

Highlights & Timestamps

• 6m22s – Erik Blachford, Former CEO, Expedia
• 27m24s – Soraya Shattuck, Executive Director, Adventure Travel Conservation Fund
• 41m20s – Jody Potts-Joseph, Han Gwich’in Leader, Raven Clan Kennels
• 1h04m – Rob Holmes, Founder & Chief Strategist, GLP Films
• 1h29m – David & Becky Blacksford, Owners & CEO, Blacksford Premium RV Rentals
• 1h50m – Christina Tunnah, GM, World Nomads
• 2h11m – Richard Naha, Co-founder, Surf Synergy
• 2h30m – Heather O’Halloran, MD, Destination Rwanda
• 2h46m – Zaal Gachechiladze, CEO, Wandero
• 3h11m – Jason Reckers, COO, ATTA & Eirik Skjærseth, Founder & CEO, Bolder Technology
• 3h39m – Casey Hanisko, Coach & Consultant
• 3h53m – Andy Brown, Communications Manager, Tourism Golden
• 4h05m – Julia Tregaskis-Allen, Co-owner, Tracks and Trails
• 4h21m – Will Cairns, MD, Active England Tours
• 4h34m – Jorge Perez, Founder, Tierra De Volcan

Whether you’re an adventure travel pro or just someone who believes in the transformative power of tourism, this episode is your ticket to inspiration. So, grab your headphones, hit play, and let’s explore the wild, wonderful world of adventure travel together!

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Chapters

• 0:00 Building Authentic Business Connections
• 5:56 Introduction to ATTA Elevate Conference
• 35:29 Eric Blatchford: From Expedia to Adventure Travel
• 55:14 Sustainability in Adventure Travel
• 1:09:07 Soraya Shattuck: Conservation Through Adventure
• 1:20:38 Jodi Potts-Joseph: Indigenous Adventure Tourism
• 1:44:17 Rob Holmes: Storytelling for Sustainable Travel
• 2:04:28 World Nomads: Evolution of Travel Insurance
• 2:30:47 Surf Synergy: Creating a Wellness Retreat
• 2:45:39 Boulder Technology: Human-Centered Tech Solutions
• 3:00:44 Casey Hanisco: Coaching Adventure Travel Businesses
• 3:14:07 Tourism Golden: Small Destination Marketing
• 3:26:19 Tracks and Trails: Women-Led Adventure Travel

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:04

I say to young people all the time I was having a conversation last night at Coors Field where someone's daughter was there and she had asked me what can you tell my daughter, who is newly coming into this industry potentially? And I said rely on your personality, rely on your true self, because people want to work with people they like, and it's not necessarily what you know and your skills, it's if you're likable and you can work with people. That's the base coat for any young person entering any industry, but particularly this one.

Speaker 2: 0:35

Hello everyone and welcome to a special event spotlight of Travel Trends. This is your host, dan Christian, and today we're going to be featuring the Adventure Travel and Trade Association Elevate Conference that was held in Denver in May 2025. I had the privilege to attend my second ATTA event. As many of our listeners know, I attended the Adventure Travel World Summit in Panama last year and we released a special two-part series from that event, and I was so keen to get back to ATTA again because it's such an extraordinary community of people that come together for this event. It's really like nothing else that I've ever been to and it is an incredibly special group of people and I feel like I found my tribe. I think that's the most common expression that people use when they get connected to ATTA and I certainly felt that in Panama. And I felt that again even more intensely at Denver because the people that came together for this event made a real commitment to be there for each other, because the last several months has certainly been challenging for many people around the world that work in travel and tourism, given the geopolitical events, and certainly there was people that had their reservations about traveling to the US for this conference and, interestingly, nearly 50% of the attendees that came together for ATTA Elevate in Denver were international and as I arrived at the hotel, first of all I gave Gabby Stoll a big hug. That's Shannon's wife, and then Shannon as well, who, as you heard me talk about them before. I mean, they're such an extraordinary couple and when I went to Panama last year they were the first ones on the dance floor and the last one still there at the end of the day and as I got introduced to many other people that Shannon and Gabby kindly introduced me to both that evening over the next couple of days, it really feels like a wedding and you're just there to celebrate the two of them and this incredible organization that they have built. And the people that decided to join this year clearly wanted to make their voices known and their presence felt, and I think that was what stood out to me. That was really special about ATTA Elevate in Denver. So it was my first time to be at one of their US events, the first time at an Elevate conference.

Speaker 2: 2:45

If you're just coming to understand ATTA, the Adventure Travel and Trade Association, I definitely encourage you to check out adventuretravelbiz, their website. You can become a member. You can see the global events they run. I will be in Chile later this year for the next Adventure Travel World Summit and I'll be speaking at that event and recording podcasts as well, and I couldn't be more excited to be a part of this community. Shannon and I have become terrific friends. We've also launched a standalone podcast series on adventure travel. It's a new quarterly series. We've released the first episode so far. We interviewed Greg Takahara from Tourism Cares and we focused on sustainability, of course, to kickstart that series, and we'll have our next episode coming out shortly Now.

Speaker 2: 3:29

Today we're going to start with Eric Blatchford, who is the one of the founders of Expedia, the first CEO of Expedia. He's gone on to incredible success in the valley, investing in multiple different startups focused on travel, but he sits on some of the biggest boards, including Zillow, but he remains very committed to the travel industry, as you'll hear from our conversation. And then we're going to speak to Soraya, who runs the Adventure Travel Conservation Fund, a very important organization as well. I've since become an associate member myself and one of the speakers they brought in Jodi Potts-Joseph, who is a First Nations leader from Alaska. I was so keen to sit down and interview her and you'll hear from her.

Speaker 2: 4:09

Third in this series of interviews, you're going to hear from David and Becky, who run Blacksford Premium RVs, who I have the chance to work with closely, and it's an extraordinary company. Great to see them there at this event, so I'm keen for you to all hear their story. You're also going to hear from people like Casey, who's a coach that works extensively with travel companies, and we'll have her a little bit later on the episode. I've deliberately tried to spread out all these amazing interviews but, as you'll listen throughout, there are tour operators from Europe and from Ecuador. There are AI startups here from Zoll another really inspiring story and it really kind of profiles to me the type of people that come together for an event like this, and so I think you'll find all of these conversations really interesting, really inspiring, and I hope you'll take the chance to reach out to each of them and also get involved in the ATTA community. We are going to be posting clips and highlights on our social channels, so be sure to check out LinkedIn, instagram and YouTube. And speaking of YouTube, we also have one of the industry's biggest filmmakers, rob Holmes, who runs GLP Films. I was actually able to attend his special film showing on the last night, where he released five of the new films that he's been working on with different tourism boards around the world. We actually have Rob part of the opening set as well.

Speaker 2: 5:30

We have this really interesting guy named Richard Naha who is based in Denver and I think many of you know. During the pandemic, obviously, people's lives were upended. We created this podcast. As part of it, he actually created a surf lodge and retreat in Costa Rica called Surf Synergy. That's absolutely taken off and it's a truly remarkable story. So you have to listen to Richard and Surf Synergy. We also have Jason Reckers, who is the chief operating officer at ATTA and also runs adventuretravel. So you're not going to want to miss these conversations and I really appreciate everyone spending the time connecting with me and I hope you enjoy this series of conversations and I can't wait to see you all again in Chile in October. All right, now let's get started and welcome Eric Blatchford to the Travel Trends Podcast. Eric, it's so great to have you with us. I was so looking forward to meeting you and having this opportunity to speak to you. Thanks for being here.

Speaker 3: 6:22

Hey Dan, it was really nice to be here, and it's great to be here at the ATTA conference too. Elevate's great.

Speaker 2: 6:26

Tell everyone about your connection with ATTA.

Speaker 3: 6:29

Well, let's see, I've been involved with ATTA for a long time. I was a speaker at one of the very first ones up at Whistler. Way back when, when I was working for a company called Terrapass doing Butterfield Robinson, I became part of the tribe which I guess is what we still think of it and then just sort of stayed connected. It was my way of staying connected to the adventure world, even though I was spending a lot of my time in kind of traditional online travel. And then during the pandemic, as Shannon decided to reconfigure the company a little bit, to get through that I joined the board, and so I've been on the board ever since. I helped Shannon sort of put together the corporate structure around it. And so here I am. You know I have an official role which is kind of great.

Speaker 2: 7:06

Well, so I think people would have heard some of that in the introduction with your background, but I'd love to hear it from your perspective, because you know, when you look at someone that founded Expedia and then led the parent company and just the legacy you have with you know investing in this space. But tell us a little bit about your personal journey, if you wouldn't mind, just how you actually entered the travel and tourism space and just give us kind of a brief overview of how you got to where you are today, because it's so remarkable.

Speaker 3: 7:30

Well, if you want to go to the very beginning. So I grew up going to a camp in Quebec called Camp Nominé, which, somewhat weirdly, I now own. We can talk about that later, Anyway. So I had this sense very early on that, you know, sort of a life well lived is one where you're outdoors a lot and it was very much in my family and very much the culture of that camp. You learn how to canoe, you learn how to, you know, cook your food over an open fire, all that sort of stuff, and I really loved it and I was on the track, I was a counselor at that camp and then after I finished high school I got my parents gave me as my graduation present I got to go on one of the old Butterfield Robinson student trips of Europe by the bike tours. You know, 30 days high school, I guess. 30 days, 30 high school students who had just graduated and three guides who were in universities. You can sort of imagine what that was like, and anyway.

Speaker 3: 8:19

So at that early age I was like, wow, this is a possible thing in life, you can do this. And so the job that I wanted when I was in college was, of course, guiding one of those trips. I got that job after my junior year at college and then I came out in 1989, which was a terrible recession. But I was like, hey, I know what I'll do. And I just went and I guided bike tours for Butterfield for three years.

Speaker 3: 8:39

So I got pretty deep into the adventure travel industry, but I didn't want to stay in it as a guide for the long term, so I went back and I went to business school. And then, you know, it seems crazy in hindsight, but I came out of business school just as the internet was really dawning. Netscape had just launched their browser, Microsoft decided they were going to get into the travel business and I had gone to Columbia Business School and taken a sort of a media telecoms concentration and somehow the Microsoft people found me through, I guess, a connection and recruited me because I had what looked like travel experience.

Speaker 3: 9:10

Of course I'm like I'm not sure that my travel experience is the travel experience that you think it is, but anyway, went and got the job and so, yeah, I was on the founding team of Expedia when it was within. Microsoft helped build that up. I was the guy like my first job there was I had to go around all the rental car companies and say, hey, you're going to pay Microsoft 10% commission, and so I learned a lot about the real travel industry very, very quickly and anyway we spun that company out in 1999. You probably know the rest of the story Sold it to Barry Dillard's IAC in 2001. I took over when Rich Barton decided to exit, so I was the second CEO there and CEO at IAC Travel. We integrated Hotelscom, hotwire et cetera, so it was pretty far away from adventure travel at this point.

Speaker 2: 9:51

Sure, exactly which is why it's such an amazing story the fact you started adventure travel and you've come back to it, and here we are at ATTA and you're on the board. But, yes, we keep going because I think so many of our listeners and Eric is actually going to be a part of season six of our podcast as well so we're actually going to spend a full hour together, but I think this is so important and so interesting, so tell us what happened next at Expedia.

Speaker 3: 10:13

Well, so Expedia. Then they decided to spin the company out as a public company again, and it just made sense. I understand it made sense Barry Diller was going to be the chairman, and it made sense that he wanted to have one of his people in as the CEO, and that made sense to me too. So Derek Azrashahi, who's now the CEO at Uber. But he took over from me, and so I took off and decided, okay, I'm going to take a little break, decide what I'm going to do with myself. And then I mean, you're going to laugh, but I saw the Al Gore movie, the Inconvenient Truth movie, and I got religious about climate change. And so I went to a Series A startup in San Francisco called TerraPass selling carbon offsets. So that sort of introduced me really deeply into the sustainability world, which I hadn't really had that much exposure to. But suddenly I resonated with that a lot.

Speaker 3: 10:57

Now the carbon offset thing sort of famously didn't work because Obama decided to prioritize health care instead of the cap-and-trade system. So pretty hard to sell offsets if there's no market. And so I said, okay, well now, what am I going to do? Well, it turned out to be just after the wake of the financial crisis and George Butterfield called me up and said, wow, are we ever getting pummeled here because everybody's trading down in the adventure travel world and I don't know, I just don't know how to get through, get this thing. Can you come and help me? So I said, okay, sure, I'll come and help, but I figured I'd do like a you know executive chairman consulting thing. But of course he immediately feels like no, no, no, okay, I'll run the place for a while and it'll be fun. So I did that and you know I sort of laugh sometimes when I said to George I'm like you know, he was in Toronto and forth. It just wasn't sustainable. So eventually Norman Howe took over as the CEO and that was a great move. He was there for 10 years after, but I still maintain that that was one of the best jobs I ever had and there's a whole alternate career timeline I have that involves me actually staying there running that company, building it up, because I just think the adventure travel thing, what you're doing for your customers, is so great.

Speaker 3: 12:02

However, I didn't do that. I came back to San Francisco and I got pulled into the investing world and I didn't want to do it full-time because I was an old English major and I'd always wanted to go and get an MFA and so I decided, okay, I'm going to do part-time investing, and at TCV I was able to do that as a venture partner and part-time. I'll go back to San Francisco State State and get my MFA in playwriting and fiction writing, which I did over the course of the next five years. But that also gave me experience doing a bunch of investing into different companies some travel companies like SightMinder, tourradar probably familiar to a lot of listeners here too and so I was sitting on those boards helping with those investments the same time doing the writing thing.

Speaker 3: 12:39

And then I came out of all that right around as the pandemic was sort of landing on us and said, okay, I'm going to do something different again and just decided, okay, I'm just going to be a solo act here and put more of my energy into the stuff that I think is really meaningful for people. And that's when I started drifting more. That's when I did the ATTA board. Along the way there I bought that camp that I went to growing up.

Speaker 6: 13:02

That's a cool story.

Speaker 3: 13:02

So now we've got 500 kids a summer going through there. We can talk more about that if you want. I recently joined the Hip Camp board. I've kind of got this theme going around travel.

Speaker 2: 13:12

And couch surfing as well. Oh, couch surfing I forgot yeah, couch surfing.

Speaker 3: 13:16

I tried really hard to figure out how we could turn couch surfing around back in 2012, 13, something like that, right after Butterfield actually, yeah, but I mean Airbnb was on the ascendant and and you know, that was. That was a whole different, a whole different chapter. But yeah, so I've. I've been very interested in everything around community culture and also trying to do a company's big and small, and not not all in travel. Importantly to like, I'm still on the board of Zillow, the Expedia co-founders, rich Barton and Lloyd Frank, and I try to sort of make sure that I'm taking other learnings from other companies and industries and bringing them into travel.

Speaker 2: 13:48

Yeah, it's a remarkable and fascinating and incredibly inspiring story. I love the fact that we obviously both have Canadian roots. You're based in Montreal, I'm based in Toronto. My wife and her family is all from Montreal. I spent a bit of time in Montreal, oh that's great. And so you can actually see on my laptop MT Lab and some of the startups that we work with.

Speaker 3: 14:06

I still have a little apartment in old Montreal. I just can't give up.

Speaker 2: 14:10

Well, and companies like Hopper, and there's a great travel tech scene in Montreal. Oh yeah, no.

Speaker 3: 14:13

I mean Fred's done an amazing job. Yeah yeah, it's incredible, yeah, sector in Montreal and at this point. I mean we're probably the biggest seller of bus tickets in the world. We've been buying companies up all over South America. It's great, oh, that's extraordinary.

Speaker 2: 14:29

That's fascinating, so I have so many questions. Obviously there's the connection with TourRadar they're a great partner of ours and the fact that you know the multi-day tour space. And I still remember, actually, when your VC firm was looking to invest in TourRadar and I had done some calls to validate and your team, when I was having one of the calls with the investors, the TourRadar team had asked me because I was working at the Travel Corporation at the time and we were their largest partner with Trafalgar and Insight and Katiki.

Speaker 5: 14:54

Oh right sure.

Speaker 2: 14:54

So I was helping advocate on their behalf for their funding round and I knew you were coming on to the board and one of the moments in, I guess in my career that was defining for multi-day tour was when your team had said we have conviction on the category, the conviction on the category of multi-day. But the amazing part for me is that you have that experience at Expedia and then TourRadar. It still amazes me that the big OTAs have not got into the multi-day tour or the adventure space and that was a big. So can I quickly ask you, given that you see both sides of that, do you think they're missing an opportunity or do you think they just don't understand that market?

Speaker 3: 15:31

Well, I don't think they're missing an opportunity. I think they see what the opportunity is and I think it's a scale thing. I mean, a lot of the adventure travel world is pretty bespoke and OTAs by their very definition are not bespoke, they're the anti-bespoke, and so I think a lot of it comes down to that. And a tour radar is, I mean, getting up to the scale now where I think it's probably getting to the place where their coverage is so big. It probably does start to become sort of interesting for an OTA, whether it's a partner or something else. I mean, I don't know, but I would think that an OTA and you're looking at partnerships the numbers have to be so massive for it to move the needle at all, to even make it worth the effort of the corporate development team to have the conversation Right, and a lot of multi-day and just not that. What we consider big here in ATTA context isn't really big when you're looking at the scale of, I don't know, the big global hotel chain and stuff like that.

Speaker 2: 16:24

Yeah, as you've mentioned, I mean the Aircar Hotel. The OTA is obviously very dominant in that space and they're in cruise. They're in some of the vacation package, but not specifically multi-day and adventure tour which has allowed opportunities like companies like Tour Radar to establish themselves and have Right.

Speaker 3: 16:38

no, that's the good side of the story is it does mean there is an opportunity for folks to build up.

Speaker 2: 16:41

You know, tour Radar is sort of a multi-day OTA of its own right, indeed, exactly, yeah, so that's one point of connectivity, but there are so many. But I want to bring it up to where we are today, day one of the ATTA Elevate Conference. We've both just finished the opening session. It was a great talk from EF, one of the heads of EF talking about their new adventure brand, which launched during the pandemic and very much a response to this loneliness epidemic that James Thornton from Intrepid talks about. He's been on our podcast as well, and so there is a societal shift in the face of technology and some of these other developments where people are feeling a stronger desire for human connection, and I know that's part of what you're going to be talking about as well.

Speaker 2: 17:28

The interesting thing just about stats is that she was highlighting that the adventure travel category now is an $896 billion business, and there's these different numbers to try and highlight just how massive this industry is. But really what's that comprised of? So trying to get the attention of some of the big players and investors that could be interested in this space. But tell us, eric, what brings you to ATTA this year, aside from the fact, obviously, you're on the board. But tell us what brought you here this year and what some of the things you're going to be focusing on and talking about.

Speaker 3: 17:54

Sure, I'm happy to. So I guess I think we're in this really extraordinary time right now, and it's a weird confluence of stuff that I think makes the outdoor world more interesting than ever. One, of course, is the administration, and everything that it's doing lends sort of an air of uncertainty to everything. Right, we literally don't know what the rules are going to be for international travel and visas and so on over the course of the next few years. Over the course of the next few years, we're also going to see the emergence of AGI. I mean, I think that's very clear.

Speaker 3: 18:23

Nobody quite knows what that looks like exactly. I've got my theories Everybody does, but you know, the other thing is, because there's been so much crazy attention put on administration policies and AI and so on, we've kind of forgotten that climate change is still there, chugging away in the background, and a lot of the scientists think the next few years are when we're going to start to see some of the tipping points on that. You're already starting to see massive crazy heat waves and so on and so forth. Indeed yep. All of these things are going to have huge impact on the travel industry, and especially in the adventure travel industry, and I tend to think.

Speaker 3: 18:52

It's just never been more important for people to actually remember that there is a connection with the outdoor world that all of us share and you have to actually go and do it to feel it, but it's part of it and also that being outdoor in nature with other people is the way that we're actually all supposed to exist. We're not really supposed to exist. Mediating every single interaction through a screen right, and what's going to happen with AGI is, of course, the mediation through the screen is not always going to be with another person. It's going to be with a fake person right Now. Fake people who cost almost nothing and can do customer service hey, that's great for business. Fake people who are like my best friend I mean, call me old school, call me old fashioned, but go and get into a water raft.

Speaker 3: 19:36

If your best friend lives in your phone. Maybe you need another friend right. But in all seriousness, Everyone needs a hug.

Speaker 6: 19:43

Everybody needs a hug, but also.

Speaker 3: 19:44

I mean, you know, when I think about the context of the summer camp, where we're talking about kids, right, there's an awful lot of 12-year-olds this summer who they'll come to camp for the first time and they'll spend a week or two weeks with us. So we have an absolute 100% no tech policy lives where what they've had to do is just make friends with the other kids and do activities with them and take some instruction from their counselors and eat in a dining hall with 200 other screaming kids. Right, It'll be the first time they've ever done that in their lives. And parents are now saying to us like, can you please teach my kid how to interact with other kids? We're like, we've only got two weeks here. We'll do our best, right, but you can't put too high a value I don't think on the experience of sitting around a campfire with a guitar singing out of tune, country roads or whatever it might be, and I think that's the essence of a lot of adventure travel.

Speaker 2: 20:37

Good old John Bera. That's it.

Speaker 3: 20:38

That's a classic, yeah, but listen we all know what that feels like, and I really don't think it matters whether you're in Quebec or Mongolia, right, I mean, you're on an adventure, you're out in nature, you're with other people. It's just never been more important.

Speaker 2: 20:50

Yeah, so I know you have a talk coming up today, so tell us a little bit about some of the things you're going to be highlighting in that conversation, which obviously relates to what we're talking about now.

Speaker 3: 20:58

Well, I think a lot of it. Uncertainty, because everybody knows that everything is changing but nobody can predict exactly how, and especially because a lot of these things are going to intersect. So you're going to hear a lot about AI. You're going to hear a lot about global tourism. You're going to hear a lot about the sort of international order and what that means, and we've got two pretty big hot wars going on in the world right now. We're not used to that. We're weirdly getting kind of used to reading about it in the news all the time. But you know, I think that's going to upend a lot of tourism. And I think we're going to talk also about some of the trends around climate change, especially this notion that there's a lot of people now you'll see some of the research later who one of the main reasons they're traveling is because they want to go to see places before they're gone. Right, and that's, you know, no-transcript. But we're going to do our best. It's not all doom and gloom, but what it is is very uncertain.

Speaker 2: 22:07

One question on this topic and we'll get into more detail about this on our Season 6 episode together. I always ask leaders or captains of industry about sustainability because certainly post-pandemic one of the things that it was quite clear to me in my executive roles in travel that it was on the list of 10 reasons for someone to book, it would be 8, 9, 10. Whereas post-pandemic, we're seeing it within the top five. People are actually starting to make decisions, or at least from my vantage point, and the people I'm speaking to is that customers are starting to factor in sustainability into their decision-making. But this is where I want your perspective on this. So this can be a depressing or uplifting part of our conversation. But what are you seeing in reality today when it comes to consumers and sustainability? Are you seeing a positive movement in that direction, or are you still very concerned that we're living in end times?

Speaker 11: 22:59

Well, those things can be true at the same time.

Speaker 3: 23:01

Those are not mutually exclusive.

Speaker 3: 23:02

Great point so I think, well boy, that's a big question, I think across certainly across the travel industry. When you look at adventure travel, I actually think sustainability is sort of built in now. I think it's price of entry, and if you're trying to run an adventure travel trip someplace and you're not doing things in a sustainable way, I think your customers are going to call you out on it. Sure, definitely. I mean, that's so widespread in the adventure travel world that I sort of feel like if you're going to take an adventure travel journey, well, you've already baked that into your calculus. Yeah, I don't know that it's as true in the broader travel world. I mean, I wish I could say that it was. Yeah, but I don't see a lot of evidence for people, say, when they're going to go on a fly and flop vacation in Hawaii or somewhere, that they're choosing the property based on a sustainability tread. I think that, by the way, I think the hotel companies are doing the right thing despite that. I think they know that people aren't necessarily choosing them because of it, but I think they feel a lot of the time it has to do with their employee base and they feel like they should do the right thing.

Speaker 3: 24:05

We're moving on quickly from the days of the cruise industry just dumping everything into the ocean, right, I mean, it's not the 80s anymore. But at the same time, you know, if you look across the broader sort of environmental world which I still do a little bit I was involved with a company called Grove Collaborative for a while. It was doing sort of very, very much aimed at trying to get plastics out of their packaging and so forth. The typical consumer still likes things to be sustainable but isn't going to pay a premium for it. Right, and so until you have price performance, that's exactly the same as everything else. I just don't. It's really hard to combat some of that stuff.

Speaker 2: 24:39

Yeah, no, I'm looking at diving into this further in our conversation. I know for today, as we're a part of this and this is the opening session both of this event spotlight episode of ATTA you and I together there's going to be a number of conversations over the course of today and tomorrow that will be part of this conversation that all of our global listeners will be enjoying as part of this one episode. But, as we're sitting here together, eric, one of the things I did want to highlight is, given your involvement with ATTA and clearly we both have a passion for adventure travel You're now on the board. You're now, you know you're presenting today.

Speaker 2: 25:12

What do you think for those people who are listening to this, because the audience for this is, you know, is a global audience that may not be familiar with ATTA and so what are some of the things that you're most excited about about this organization and why other people listening to this should consider becoming a member, getting involved, going to some of the events, like, I discovered this organization only a year ago and I absolutely love it and I feel like I've found my tribe and I know that is the most common expression and it's like it is but I found the people here to be incredibly intellectually stimulating to have conversations with, and it's no shortage of people that you meet that you just will find endlessly fascinating that work in these incredible niche markets. So yeah, for our global listeners. Just given your passion and industry background, such a heavyweight that has gotten involved in ATTA tell our global listeners what they should pay attention to and why they should get involved.

Speaker 3: 26:01

Yeah, sure, I mean listen to me the magic of ATTA, and you know they do call it the tribe for sure. And the reason that people get so excited about connecting in with the big community here is because it's this unique opportunity for peer oriented growth right and learning. And if you're in the early stages of building up your company in the adventure travel world, it can be really lonely, especially if you're one of the only operators in your local geography. But you might find that there's somebody else doing a very similar thing halfway around the world and ATTA is the place you're going to meet them. You're going to be able to compare notes and learn from each other and I think that's the real magic.

Speaker 3: 26:34

Now, I mean ATTA, I mean as an organization. I mean there's a lot of research that we provide. We try to do a lot of educational material, but really it's the community. It's the community coming together and, by the way, coming together face to face, right. One of the things people couldn't wait to do after the pandemic was get back to real, live ATTA events, because so much of the learning comes from people chatting. You know they're going to the seminars and then they're chatting about them afterwards. That's what the whole thing's about from my point of view, and that's where the next generation of leaders for all of the bigger travel companies are going to come from too.

Speaker 2: 27:06

Yeah, no, that's great. I mean I really appreciate your perspective and I definitely am looking forward to us having more time together, and I'm sure our listeners we've already kind of whet their appetite for a much more in-depth conversation with us together. But Eric and I, this is actually our first time meeting and I'm like it was such an honor to speak to you and get to meet you.

Speaker 2: 27:24

And I certainly wish you luck with your presentation later today and I look forward to keeping in touch and having you back on Travel Trends for season six. Excellent, thank you, dan. Really appreciate it being here. I now have the pleasure to speak to Soraya Shattuck, who is the Executive Director at the Adventure Travel Conservation Fund, which is very closely tied to ATTA. So welcome, soraya. Great to have you on this Travel Trends special event spotlight. Thanks, great to be here, awesome. Now tell us a little bit about the Adventure Travel Conservation Fund. I know it's been around for nine years. You founded this. It's got a really incredible story. But yeah, tell everyone a bit of background of the organization and how you work with ATTA.

Speaker 12: 28:02

Absolutely yeah, the Adventure Travel Conservation Fund is a nonprofit. We play in the adventure travel space. Of course. The ATTA is actually one of our founding members and kind of came around back around nine years ago.

Speaker 12: 28:16

Shannon and the ATTA team obviously with their membership were having a lot of conversations around conservation and sometimes their members would come up to them and say, hey, you know, I've got this great turtle project, can you help us fund it? And it just sort of fell out of the scope of what ATTA did and so the ATTA, along with a couple other members at that time it was REI Adventures, ex Officio and several others came together to say, look, let's put some funding together to get this launched and start a nonprofit. And really the core mission of what we do is to support indigenous grassroots communities around the world who are doing great conservation work, and part of that is to help preserve the biodiversity in those destinations, the cultures, their traditions. You know how do we focus on nature-based solutions around climate and really sort of emphasize the point to these communities that there is a livelihood and there is an economic benefit in conservation. So we give grants to all of those communities around the world. That's really interesting.

Speaker 2: 29:19

And one of the things that our listeners have come to know who listen to our Travel Trends podcast and of course, we have a partnership with ATTA. We do this quarterly release that Shannon and I co-host and I definitely encourage our listeners to check that out as well, because the next one's coming up. But one of the things I always ask about on the Travel Trends podcast is what makes a particular organization unique, and I haven't actually asked this of a nonprofit or a conservation fund, but I do know. As soon as you say a project like Turtles, I think there's people that actually understand what it's like to work with conservation funds, but I think there's a large portion of the community that just hears about these organizations. They're not really clear on what they do and what differentiates them. So my key question for you on this is what really separates Adventure Travel Conservation Fund from other nonprofits?

Speaker 12: 30:04

Yeah, I mean, as I said, we are a grant giving organization, but what's really cool about the way we decided to put this together? There's a couple different elements. One is that our membership base and the people that help fund these projects are businesses in the adventure travel industry or anywhere along the adventure travel supply chain. So it's really a chance for them to sort of walk this talk of conservation. It's like, well, you know, you say you're sustainable, you say you're doing all these things, but how are you actually helping to preserve the destinations where you're sending all these clients to? So our member base is anyone you know their tour operators, accommodations, dmos and then we've got non-endemics that also follow along that supply chain, like gear brands and insurance companies and travel lawyers and things like that. So really, anyone who kind of plays in any aspect of adventure travel, there are members who help us fund these projects in these destinations.

Speaker 12: 30:57

And the other really cool thing is you know we're a small organization.

Speaker 12: 31:00

We've tried to keep it really lean and efficient so that we can get as much money as possible on the ground to these destinations, and so what we've done is created a model based off another conservation organization in North America.

Speaker 12: 31:14

But because we're a small team, we don't necessarily have access to all these conservation projects that are happening around the world, and so we rely on our members and the businesses that are in these destinations to bring forward those projects to us. So what's kind of cool about the model that we have is that our members get to nominate projects and communities and organizations for funding consideration. We take all those nominations, invite them to submit applications, and then we take all of those applications and sort of vet it down to you know a recommended list of what we think are the most impactful, viable projects based on you know, our funding criteria, and then that goes back out to our members and our members essentially get to vote on where they want to see their funding go for that year. So we've tried to really make it as democratic of a process as possible to get our members to have a lot of say in where the funding for conservation goes.

Speaker 2: 32:05

Yeah, no, it's so important. And actually Eric Blatchford, who joined us just before this and he, as our listeners would have heard, he was the opening conversation, so it's actually a perfect segue to have this discussion now, because we were discussing sustainability and one of the questions I asked him that I'm very keen to ask you, especially on that note, is that here we are in this post pandemic, which really we're getting to that point where we need to stop talking to the pandemic.

Speaker 2: 32:27

I realized because it's just like we're all so scarred by it but we just need to move forward. But there is, you know, it has shaped human behavior in so many different ways that we're still coming to understand, and one of the things that I certainly always ask my guests about is sustainability, because it has become, from my vantage point, more important to consumers and their decision making, especially places like Adventure Travel Trade Association and Eric was saying you know, you wouldn't really have an adventure travel company that wasn't sustainable. They just wouldn't exist today in the marketplace because customers would choose something else. What are you seeing and as, when it comes to a conservation fund, are you seeing more interest, more membership? How are you seeing this category in the space?

Speaker 12: 33:07

Yeah, definitely a lot more interest. I think it's being driven through a couple different avenues. I think one is businesses are saying gosh, we know that there needs to be a future for where we're sending people to these destinations. So as a small tour operator, as a small lodge or something, we don't have the capability of investing in conservation directly ourselves and doing all this vetting and you know kind of everything that's involved in giving grants to organizations. So let's do this through a different avenue, let's pick a nonprofit and, kind of, you know, do our funding through there. So that's been really cool to see. And then I think you know, as I'm sure you'll hear from your other guests, it's being driven by the travelers, your other guests. It's being driven by the travelers. They want to work in close partnerships with organizations who are not just talking about sustainability and conservation but who are actually backing it up with their own money and their own investments and their own efforts around, you know, investing in these communities.

Speaker 2: 33:56

Very interesting and, as we're sitting here, it's day one of the conference and obviously this is just the beginning of what you know. We've had the day of adventure, which was extraordinary, the opening sessions, and I love being part of ATTA. I've just recently gotten really involved and I just really feel strongly connected to this community and clearly you must as well. So tell us a little bit about what brings you here this year and what some of the things you're looking forward to either talking about or connecting with people on.

Speaker 12: 34:22

Yeah, so we every year come to both the elevates and the world summits. I mean, it's a great community and every year that we come there, our community continues to grow and grow and you see familiar faces, which is so wonderful. Also, a staple of the adventure travel conservation fund at the ATTA events is our members breakfast meeting. So we have that happening tomorrow and usually it's a chance for us to pack a room with people who are not just our members who've committed to conservation, but for others who are very interested in that conservation conversation and there's amazing, incredible organic relationships and partnerships and friendships that are forming within that room. And it's so. It's not just about you know us talking about the projects that we funded or having our amazing guest speakers come in to talk about, you know, challenges with public land preservations or conservation in you know the wild, the wild oceans or things like that, but it's a great place for the community to connect.

Speaker 2: 35:19

Oh, that's cool. I'm going to be there tomorrow.

Speaker 11: 35:21

I'm looking forward to it.

Speaker 2: 35:22

You know I missed it. When I was in Panama. A number of people told me that I had to be there. The scheduling didn't work because I try and organize these where people can actually select time on my calendar. So unfortunately I don't get to attend as much as I would like to. But tomorrow I've blocked my calendar so I can be there.

Speaker 2: 35:45

I don't want to miss that opportunity. World is preserved for future generations and this whole category, this whole focus couldn't be more of more paramount importance. So tell us, are you going to be doing some talks over the next couple of days? What are some of the other, aside from, obviously, your big event tomorrow morning? What are some of the other things that you're going to be participating in at Denver Elevate, given that many of our listeners wouldn't even be familiar with, like what's on the cards, what's on the agenda?

Speaker 12: 36:09

Yeah, I think the accelerates are always really fun to go to. It's a little bit of a different setup than the main sessions because those are a bit more interactive. You get to hear from the peers and colleagues in there about different challenges that they're facing and sort of do group brainstorms. So that's always. The accelerators are always really fun for me and yeah, just it's again. It's it's walking around meeting new people, having those new conversations and just starting to build foundations of relationships that will be there for years to come.

Speaker 2: 36:37

Very cool, the other thing I wanted to ask you, just given your perspective on this industry in this space, some of the trends that you're seeing when it comes to consumer behavior or organizations embracing conservation. What are some of the big themes that you're focused on as an organization and what are some of the consumer behavioral trends that you're paying attention to?

Speaker 12: 36:56

I think it's similar to what I said before. I think businesses are being driven partly by what consumers are demanding, and so they're looking for those conservation connections, looking, looking for those certifications. Are you a B Corp? Are you a 1% for the planet member? Are you with the Adventure Travel Conservation Fund? And you know real sustainable sort of certifications are vetted through different organizations where it's reliable and you know that there's actually something good happening here. And you know that there's actually something good happening here. And I think the other thing is that the partnerships that are forming between businesses, they're also looking for those different ways to vet. So if I'm looking for a tour operator, there's no way for me to distinguish A from B unless I start to look at oh, what do you do around conservation? Who are you a part of, how do you give back? And so really, what's distinguishing a lot of the members here is like what has their commitment been? And more than just talking, more than just internal, but like what are they doing to partner with other organizations around that?

Speaker 2: 37:54

Yeah, no, that's.

Speaker 2: 37:55

That's great to hear and very encouraging.

Speaker 2: 37:57

The other thing I actually wanted to bring up to while we have this conversation together, because when I approach most of my episodes, I am very keen to get my guests backstory, because backstories build credibility and trust, and then we get into what they're working on and then we finish kind of talking about the trends that sort of you know, essentially the framework of a lot of the conversations that I have, and one of the things I wanted to highlight to our listeners is your background, sarai, because it is so unique and impressive and I highlight that because we were having a really nice conversation before we set out to record and, although this is like a vignette conversation where I don't typically have the time to go into everyone's backstories, yours is so compelling and interesting and in many ways, having this conversation with you now and hearing more about what it is that you do and your interests, it so strongly to me ties to your origin story and where you were born and grew up.

Speaker 2: 38:48

So tell everyone if you wouldn't mind a little bit about your background and how you ultimately got into this space.

Speaker 12: 38:54

Yeah, sure I was sharing earlier that I was born and raised in Kenya, lived there for the first 15 years of my life and it was to me as a kid sort of that's just what life is. And my parents had a travel agency and they also had inbound safari operation and so for us, you know, weekends were camping out with the elephants or, you know, going down to the coast in Mombasa, and it, you know, certainly was taken for granted as a child. But we moved to Washington State when I was about 15. And, honestly, the magic of Washington is incredible in itself, but it laid a very incredible foundation for my beliefs around conservation, my appreciation for the wild spaces that we have and, you know, having a young kid myself now, it's definitely been ever more emphasized around the need to protect these places, because I want to take him to see all those, you know, beautiful, wonderful, wild, free cultures and communities and people.

Speaker 2: 39:53

So no, thank you so much for sharing that, because I think it's you know people will travel to destinations like Kenya and come back changed and impacted. And you actually grew up in Kenya and then came to the USS as a teenager, and so your perspective on US society is unique and largely shaped by that experience, and I just find that so interesting in terms of what you've chosen to focus on and go into. But, no, it's been a real pleasure meeting you. I want to make sure, soraya, that everyone knows how to find out more information about the Adventure Travel Conservation Fund and be able to follow up and connect with you. So what would be the best ways for them to do that?

Speaker 12: 40:27

Yeah, absolutely. I would say go on our website, check out the great work we do. Look at the communities that we support. Adventuretravelconservationfundorg. We've got this great travel conservation auction coming up in September. It's the world's largest and most respected adventure travel and gear auction benefiting conservation. It's launching on World Tourism Day and everything. All the funds that we raise from that enable us to be able to continue to do great work and continue to fund the projects that we are around the world, so that's an awesome way for travelers and businesses to engage as well.

Speaker 2: 40:57

Fantastic. I will definitely get involved and support that. I'm sure many of our listeners will as well. It's a real pleasure to meet you and I certainly look forward to keeping in touch and make sure that you check out adventure. It's ATConservationFundorg for more details and connect with Soraya and the team. Real pleasure to meet you. Thanks so much for joining us.

Speaker 12: 41:17

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2: 41:20

I just finished attending an incredibly inspiring morning keynote session at the Adventure Travel Conservation Fund meeting and I now have the privilege and real honor, I would say, to introduce you to that extraordinary keynote speaker, jodi Potts-Joseph, who is an advocate for Indigenous rights and she's a documentary filmmaker. She's based in Alaska, actually very close to the Canadian border. As you know, I'm Canadian, so I was thrilled to hear her story about the Yukon River and being so close to that whole region I can't wait to visit one day. But, jodi, welcome to Travel Trends. I'm thrilled to have you as part of this special event spotlight.

Speaker 7: 42:00

Well, thank you very much. It's an honor to be here.

Speaker 2: 42:05

For sure, and you have so much to share and so much to offer and I want to try and capture as much as we can in the time that we have together. And I would love for you to share your background with our listeners, because there's so many aspects to what you do. You have such an incredible family and an amazing story, so would you mind just giving everyone a bit of a review of your background, please? Yeah, sure, yeah, I was really blessed and fortunate to have been raised on the land of my people, the Han Gwich'in, where people have lived for thousands of years and lived such a remarkable overview and I learned so much from that session and I want to try and capture as much as possible. But how did you get into, actually, I guess, one of the big questions. Of course it ties it together with why we're both here with your background, getting involved with ATTA and the Adventure Travel Conservation Fund.

Speaker 7: 43:03

Well, I have done years of advocacy for protecting our sacred lands, which in oftentimes is public lands, you know, federal public lands and so I served on a board I still serve on the Alaska Wilderness League and one of the board members of that organization was also a board member and maybe a founding board member of the Adventure Travel Conservation Fund. And you know we just share similar values. And Steve Barker had gone to Alaska for one of our board meetings and you know the group came to our fish camp and spent some time and, you know, just really connected. And so I was invited by this organization now to come speak and just really happy to be here. You know, I just I love adventure travel, I love being a part of this industry and just hope to expand in Alaska, where we have a lot of really special things to share.

Speaker 2: 43:58

And now give everyone an overview of all the things that you do, because I want to ask you about that. I want to ask you, I want to specifically ask you a bit about sustainability, because you raise some really important points that are affecting your community about. I did not realize that you have not been able to fish salmon for the last five years. It was all these things, and I could see the response in the room that people were genuinely concerned or alarmed and trying to figure out how did I not know this and like how can I be a better advocate and support but tell everyone this incredible overview all the things you do, including the fact that you're actually going to compete in the Iditarod in 2026.

Speaker 7: 44:31

Yeah, a lot of exciting things, you know. I would say you know, first and foremost I'm a mom and that's my take as the greatest honor and privilege in raising my kids on our land and in our culture and teaching them our traditional values. But you know, outside of that, I have done years of advocacy for protecting the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and really advocating about our climate impacts, and you know some climate solutions. But you know I also am working on documentaries now that are kind of around climate and some of the environmental issues. So, producer guide, you know I serve on several boards. In the past I've been a wildland firefighter, english teacher in Mongolia, just, and I, you know, I'm training for Iditarod, and so that's. This winter has been a very busy winter trying to qualify for the Iditarod.

Speaker 2: 45:28

Yeah, no kidding.

Speaker 2: 45:29

Kind of dabbling a lot no-transcript, and so I thought that was also really nicely touched upon, but how important it is to your culture and the fact that even yourself learning from your mother how to make clothes that will actually keep you warm in the wintertime and I can look around the room at people wearing. I won't name any of the brands, but I just all I had that thought was like you know, this is, you know, the purest form of of style and dress, and and and and for to be prepared for the elements.

Speaker 7: 46:16

So it's incredible, yeah, the combination of, you know I'll wear some of the best gear in the industry. You know from the North Face and I'll also be wearing a lot of my own native gear that really there's nothing else on the market that compares, and so it's really that really nice combination of what works.

Speaker 2: 46:33

And you know the harsh elements that I live in For sure, you know, and yeah, and to give you the very closest example, canada Goose, of course, and they had their fox fur in there, which obviously they've had to move away from for, I would say, all the right reasons. But they tried to advocate for a long time about sustainability and they're trapping and they're like, but there's no other material on earth that can replicate the ability to protect your face from snow than fox fur. And so this is where like and so I certainly don't want that to be high fashion I want that to be used for the intent purposes, for your community, and so, to your point, there is nothing that can replace what actually the natural environment has many ways, created.

Speaker 7: 47:11

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 47:17

One of the things I just want to share with our listeners I would like you to share with our listeners, too is this experience in Mongolia, and you told this really wonderful story about a child there that stopped speaking English. Tell us a little bit about the experience in Mongolia.

Speaker 7: 47:25

Yeah, I was a single mom and I moved to Mongolia for two years. My youngest son was one, my daughter was three and my oldest son was five and they all learned the language because you know, being young, their minds are little sponges. But my youngest, he was just learning to speak at the time. He's one and he became fluent in the language and when we came back to the States after two years he didn't speak any English. He didn't even call me mom. He still for years called me the Mongolian word for mom, aj. And yeah, it was just interesting, like he was always he would get disgruntled handing him a cheeseburger because he didn't know what it was and he'd ask in Mongolian like what kind of food is this? I want? The bodes which are the meat dumplings in Mongolia, or he would be really curious.

Speaker 2: 48:17

He'd really look at people with blue eyes and ask me, in Mongolian, what's wrong with their eyes.

Speaker 7: 48:21

I was sitting there thinking because I'm like I've got blue eyes, but I mean, there's so many things about you know, america that he had forgotten about you know, so it was just. It was interesting and I always had to leave one of the older kids with him. Someone always had to be with him at all times to translate, or he'd just get too frustrated.

Speaker 2: 48:36

You know so that was always interesting.

Speaker 2: 48:39

Oh, that's incredible. Well, let's bring it back to Alaska and some of the challenges that I want to make sure that our global listeners are aware of, Because this is one of the things that obviously connects many of us around the ATTA community for sure Sustainability and making sure that the planet will be protected for future generations, and I think that is one of the reasons, for sure, that your presentation today was so impactful. So would you mind highlighting some of the challenges in recent years that have impacted your culture, and one of the things, too, jodi, I'd love you to speak about, because you highlighted the investment you have in the region and kind of the four different areas, and the fourth being tourism, that how we can advocate for tourism in the right way, knowing some of the challenges that exist for your community to just to be able to live a subsistence lifestyle.

Speaker 7: 49:27

Well, you know, for us as indigenous peoples of the land, you know protecting our lands and our way of life is of the utmost importance and a lot of times you know our food security really depends on our ability to protect the resources around us.

Speaker 7: 49:42

And so you know the climate impacts have been really profound on our people. But also you know the fishing, the commercial fishing industry, has really had devastating impacts on our food security and our culture and way of life, as they have been catching our fish that are headed to our river as bycatch and wasting millions of pounds of King salmon, yukon river, kings, chum crab, you know, halibut, rockfish, all of these really nice uh fish are getting caught and wasted um for the Pollock and Cod industry to make the filet of fish and some of the other, you know, um breaded uh, white fish on the market and so, really, alaska Pollock and cod.

Speaker 7: 50:24

I just feel like it's so important to educate people on that. You know, if we can reduce the market pressure on that, those items, we may be able to save our salmon. And so you know, we haven't been able to fish for five years, going on our six, and then we're facing another seven year moratorium where us as indigenous fisher. People are subsistence fishing and catching just a small percentage of the total amount of fish going up the river, and we've always fished sustainably. We never take more than we need, and so it's been really devastating for our people and we're definitely facing the the health implications from that lack of salmon in our diet, and it's just it's been really hard right so just on this, because when we think about what we can do, so on this very topic, as far as just being aware of this, because I actually love halibut, you mentioned that as one of the.

Speaker 2: 51:11

I was like no, not the halibut, as well it's just like there's so many great fish species that are being negatively impacted by the pollock fishery and so many things that are, as you highlighted, being discarded that are. So what can uh listeners do be able to to help advocate or to just be aware of decisions they should be making, whether it be ordering at a restaurant or like no longer just being as entranced by something that sounds like it's fresh, wild caught in Alaska, and think of the negative consequences? So what are some of the consumer choices we can make? And then I, jodi, I'd love to hear about how we get into tourism in Alaska in the right way that could be supportive to your community.

Speaker 7: 51:45

Well, I would just say, you know, really be mindful of what you're consuming, really. So if you see anything on a menu that is Alaska pollock or cod, a lot of times it's the breaded white fish that you can buy at Costco or Long John Silver's or things like that. I mean, I just was at a nice restaurant the other day and it was Alaskan pollock for the fish and chips on the menu. So I think, reducing market pressure and also finding ways that you can advocate, you know, for indigenous peoples and there are the Tannina Chiefs Conference and the Intertribal Fish Commission, yukon River Intertribal Fish Commission that is doing a lot of the advocacy work on trying to save our salmon and so, just being mindful of those things, try to eat as local as you can.

Speaker 7: 52:30

Really, the seafood, commercial seafood industry it's a billion dollar industry for Alaska, but all the councils and all the boards are so heavily influenced by their people that take the board seats. There's no indigenous peoples that have seats at the table of the decision makers, and so you know that's really important to advocate for that. So we need good allies, you know, and it's been really hard not having the salmon in our diets, but it's also hard on our culture and our wellness. You know because, culturally, you know we transmit information between generations when we're all working together as a family, with, you know, three generations working together to process and put away fish for the winter. So it's been hard, but you know our people. You know we're pretty, we're, you know advocates and we're always going to really fight to protect our way of life.

Speaker 2: 53:29

For sure. No, that's great and really powerful, and I appreciate you sharing that. The one thing you also highlighted a number of people started lifting up their phones and taking pictures is this extraordinary lodge. It looks so beautiful. So tell us a little bit about that and how us, as advocates for tourism and adventure tourism, how we can potentially visit and do so in the right way.

Speaker 7: 53:47

Yeah. So you know, I think it's really important and, you know, awesome for people to look for indigenous owned and operated. You know lodges and operations. Our native corporation of Interior Alaska owns the only lodge within Denali National Park. It's called Cantichina Backcountry Lodge and it's an all-inclusive lodge. There's, you know, a lot of different activities and you know experiences available.

Speaker 7: 54:20

But you know, really, you know the money we make from that goes to really our foundation, which is, you know, really, you know the money we make from that goes to really our foundation, which is, you know, a scholarship fund for a lot of our people. And so tourism is something that we're really working hard on. We're making a lot of investments in tourism and really trying to grow our tourism footprint in interior of Alaska, where we have, you know just, we have the Alaska range, the Brooks range, we have the Yukon River, we have the Aurora Borealis and so many other cultural opportunities. And you know there's a lot to learn from our people and a lot for us to share. And so you know, cantichna Backcountry Lodge is just a beautiful, beautiful place right in Denali National Park. So love to share that experience with folks, for sure, and obviously you that experience with folks.

Speaker 2: 55:04

For sure, and obviously you're rebranding, yeah, and so I guess details to follow on what the new lodge will be called Is that.

Speaker 7: 55:14

It'll be. So. It was Cantichina Roadhouse, so in Alaska it's part of the Alaska like history we had roadhouses when they were building the roads within alaska and so like every 50 or miles or so there's like a different roadhouse. They're all along our highways, um, cantition is kind of the end of the road for that that uh highway that goes into denali national park, um, and so we're kind of losing the roadhouse because a lot of people don't how is it a road house if it's a backcountry lodge? You know that kind of thing. So we are doing of losing the roadhouse because a lot of people don't how is it a roadhouse if it's a backcountry lodge? You know that kind of thing. So we are doing a little rebranding and you know, I think it'll be really awesome and I think it'll really have a good impact on tourism.

Speaker 7: 55:56

The Denali Park Road actually had a landslide a couple years ago and so the road's been closed into the park and so we've lost a lot of business from that, like I would say two-thirds of our business. So it's fly-in only right now from Talkeetna in a small bush plane. So you know we've had a significant loss the last several years, but we're going to work through it and just wait for that road to open and hopefully, you know, book a lot of clients. You know book a lot of clients. But for people that really want to get off the grid, who want to get away from their phones, who really want to disconnect, to connect with nature, to connect with a different culture, you know that's a great place to really relax and to really just be present and really be mindful about the world around you. You know.

Speaker 2: 56:41

Absolutely yes. No, that's, and one of the things you highlighted too is you closed off your presentation, which was also very powerful was Denali, which obviously means the great one.

Speaker 4: 56:51

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 56:52

And your son is named Denali, yeah, which is also very cool.

Speaker 7: 56:55

He is a great one.

Speaker 2: 56:57

Clearly and a great shot as well, yeah.

Speaker 2: 56:59

So, when people are actually thinking about traveling to Alaska and that region, what are some of the things that they should plan for? Keep in mind, because obviously this is where you want to encourage more tourism be able to work with tour operators and find the right type of itineraries that they can build out so that it does protect the land and does. People are looking for that cultural immersion, and that's certainly one of the great attractions, one of the great things that appeals to travelers. Wherever they're traveling, they want a personal connection. So how do we think about that in the right way when it comes to traveling to Alaska, given all the different communities that exist there and the different cultures and just being very aware?

Speaker 7: 57:57

And so how are you working with ATTA to be able to develop that further? Love adventure travel myself, but also I really want to, I guess, have a stronger footprint in this space as a guide for our own operation, raven Clan Adventures, which is kind of under Raven Clan Kennels, my dog mushing kennel, but also with my native corporation that you know we're really heavily investing in. I would say, just really do your research ahead of time. Try to find the, you know, off the beaten path, indigenous-owned, sustainable, you know lodges or experiences. So you know Cantitioner Roadhouse is completely, it's got the sustainability certification. It's one of the Time Magazine's World's Best in 2024.

Speaker 7: 58:45

So you know there are really cool places like that. There's places like, you know, eagle, alaska, my little community, where you know we have a really we have a hotel there, we have a restaurant, we have a beautiful bed and breakfast. You know you have folks like me that could do river trips or, you know, winter trips for dog mushing experiences. But also just be open, you know, leave no trace like, make sure you take what you, you know, take out what you bring, but not to be extractive, you know, and just to always be respectful you know of of people and what they're sharing and you know so that's always good, but there's a lot of experiences to be had in interior of Alaska. A lot of people like that. Most tourists go through the inside passage on the cruise ships. Right, I mean, I think three quarters of our tourists in Alaska go through the inside passage with a cruise ship. But there's a lot of really neat experiences to see without you know, off, by yourself. In a lot of cases, you know.

Speaker 2: 59:46

Yes.

Speaker 2: 59:47

The one thing I wanted to ask you too obviously we have our geopolitical issues globally, and certainly Canada and the US, and it was interesting when you were talking about crossing over that border, because you know, in the times that we live in, it's wonderful that you and your community, as deservedly, can go back and forth, and there isn't any of those restrictions that sometimes exist in some other challenges, but there are certainly.

Speaker 2: 1:00:08

The one thing I wanted to ask you, though when we think about Indigenous tourism and we look globally because Canada has certainly had its issues, america as well, australia certainly the one model that I see that has been more successful is New Zealand, and I think some of those encouraging signs are coming now to Canada in particular, and the US as well, as far as the name changes and being able to bring tourism about the right way.

Speaker 2: 1:00:35

Are you encouraged, because I have heard from, say, destination Canada that they were seeing more tourists coming from Europe, specifically Germany, that are really interested in Indigenous travel, and it's one of the reasons they're actually traveling to Canada and I mentioned Canada just because one of the things they're advocating for is more international travelers to come and see the Northern Lights, and you have some beautiful pictures of the Northern Lights, which obviously is accessible in the Yukon or Alaska, and so they have been highlighting that more travelers are interested in now coming if they actually can connect with indigenous culture, as opposed to, say, going to Norway or Iceland. So I guess my question to you is are you encouraged by some of the signs that you're seeing that travelers are taking more of an interest, and do you think there is, you know, I guess what would you say is the future outlook for indigenous tourism, especially in Alaska?

Speaker 7: 1:01:21

Yeah, I have seen an increased interest in indigenous tourism and, you know, really, ecotourism, and so you know there are some opportunities there for us to provide more of those experiences, which is exciting.

Speaker 7: 1:01:36

I think that, you know, the more we share our knowledge, our values with the rest of the world, I think our people hold a lot of things that could provide solutions to some of the things we're experiencing, like climate change, you know, and other things. You know some of our socioeconomic crises in the world, but I think really a lot of what we could help people experience is just that relationship with the land, to really learn to not just think of water or land as a resource, but to really think of it as a relative, and you know that's something that can really be life changing and could really help our world survive some of the things, these grim outlooks that we're seeing. So you know, I think that there's a lot of Indigenous peoples that are happy to share, you know, and want to share a culture, and you know there's a lot of beauty to be had, so we're happy to share.

Speaker 2: 1:02:32

That's wonderful. No, I really appreciate your perspective. It's a real honor meeting you. I know you have to get to the airport, so I need to be incredibly mindful of time, Otherwise I'd certainly like to speak to you longer. I sincerely hope that there'll be more ways that we can collaborate together and support you and the organizations you're involved in. So let's finish by letting everyone know how they can connect with you, whether it's the website, social channels, LinkedIn, all of those channels. But what are the best ways for people?

Speaker 7: 1:03:13

to stay in touch with you, Jodi, or to get involved in some of your initiatives.

Speaker 2: 1:03:17

Yeah, you could give me a follow on Instagram at ironjody.

Speaker 7: 1:03:19

You could also follow my website, ravenclankennelscom, you could follow my race seasons. There's organization that my kids and I founded Native Youth Outdoors, and you know we're really trying to get more Native youth to have outdoor recreation experiences that have been a big part of my kids and I's wellness and also hopefully turn some of these kids into future guides so you know and advocates really to protect these public lands and sacred places.

Speaker 2: 1:03:44

So for sure. Yeah and uh. And you'd highlighted just to how much more expensive it is now to feed the dogs because the limited access to salmon. So that's where you know, once you understand the challenges that exist, which is why my immediate reaction is like obviously, and the other thing too, is you're going to be the third indigenous woman ever to compete in the Iditarod. Fifth, oh, fifth, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, okay, fifth, make sure.

Speaker 7: 1:04:03

Somewhere in there, but yeah, not there's hasn't been many so yeah it's exciting.

Speaker 2: 1:04:13

Yeah, exactly Cause. So I wish you every success and I look forward to keeping in touch and thanks so much for joining us and safe travels home, thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 1:04:19

I now have the pleasure to bring you one of the legends in this industry and someone that has been an OG of the ATTA. Speaking, of course, of Rob Holmes, who is the founder and chief strategist at GLP Films and actually I'm going to be attending his premiere tonight that he's hosting in a theater nearby. But, Rob, so great to have you here on Travel Trends. Thanks so much for joining us. Good to be here, Dan.

Speaker 8: 1:05:09

No-transcript three core areas the outdoors, obviously I think anyone in the adventure travel space is an outdoor enthusiast. So just the outdoor industry, media and digital. That was kind of an area that I got into years ago just digital content. So it came in on the tech side. And then, just having a passion for content, I was a former photographer traveling around the world and got into video, was inspired by Al Gore's Inconvenient Truth, if anyone remembers at the time number one documentary film and honestly, got inspired by documentary films and that's kind of where GLP came. I combined all three of these areas of interest content, business too, and media and the travel industry and that was where GLP came from. That's fascinating.

Speaker 2: 1:06:09

The very first interview in this podcast event spotlight was with Eric Blatchford, and all of our listeners would have just heard Eric's interview, and one of the things that he highlighted was actually his career completely changed after seeing An Inconvenient Truth as well. So it's interesting that the two of you obviously are contemporaries and myself obviously I was dramatically impacted by that film, but maybe not as significantly in terms of the life decisions that each of you guys have made. But tell everyone a little bit more about your involvement with ATTA then. How did you guys get connected and how important has that been on your journey?

Speaker 8: 1:06:42

Well, ironically, shannon and I connected before ATTA. So I was one of the founders of a company called trailscom. So right there it's trails digital content, taking books, putting them online, selling them through a subscription over 25 years ago, when no one knew what a subscription was, let alone digital content. So we were pioneers and we, shannon and I, knew each other because he was at altreccom, so we kind of knew each other in the dot com boom and just connected various meetings. And then, when ATTA was kind of reborn, he said, hey, come on down to Pier 61 in Seattle and give us a hand. And so I was there just helping out. And so I've been involved with ATTA since the very beginning. It's been great.

Speaker 2: 1:07:25

Oh, that's fantastic, and you know so, been involved with ATTA since the very beginning. It's been great. No, that's fantastic. And then this year, obviously, given you've got such a longstanding relationship, you're clearly going to be at all the major events the World Summit, the Elevate events. What specifically stood out to you about this year's event? Obviously, we're having this conversation on day two. I know you've got your big premiere tonight with five of your films, which I certainly will be there, and I've brought a number of colleagues to as well. I'm really looking forward to that Another highlight for me being here. But yeah, tell us what were some of the things that brought you here this year and what have been some of the highlights of this year's conference.

Speaker 8: 1:07:51

I mean the ATTA events. You know, no matter the brands, if it's Elevate, adventure Next, you know the summits. It's all about getting together with like-minded people. So for me, it's not as much about business, it's about relationship, it's about friends, it's about reconnecting and it's great having these events in North America. Since COVID, we've done so much more work domestically in the United States. Most of our work has been overseas. So I think for me it's just connecting with people that I've known for a long time. Meet some new faces, but it's really just all about connection. I go to the summits pretty regularly, but nowadays I'm okay. I broke my streak. I haven't gone to everyone now, but at the end it's just getting together with great people in the industry. It's all about impact and doing good.

Speaker 2: 1:08:39

Well, I was thrilled that I was going to see you here at this event, and I have a few of your colleagues that actually reached out because they were keen for us to reconnect, even though you and I are directly in touch as well and one of the things I wanted to highlight to our listeners is the productions. You do that. When we were speaking at WTM in London a few months ago, you were highlighting to me some of the projects you were working on, especially with these tourism boards, and I was really impressed with the production quality, but also just the journey you've been on to be able to create these videos, and I think there's a lot obviously you can share with our listeners here about the importance of video today in terms of getting cut through and marketing. So take us through some of the latest projects you've been working on.

Speaker 8: 1:09:16

Well, let me take a step back, because I think what's inspired me is just the power of digital content, you know, and me getting inspired. When I was living in Seattle, I'd go to the Seattle International Film Festival. Just by myself. I'd go to a whole bunch of films. So that's where the documentary passion came. Actually, I remember connecting with Eric Blackford when he was, at that time, ceo of Expedia. So again, you know a couple of Seattle natives, and then you throw in Shannon and where ATTA kind of was reborn.

Speaker 8: 1:09:44

But for us, at the end, it's all about doing good, helping the industry, helping our brand partners, helping our destination partners really reposition. I mean COVID changed everything in the travel industry. I mean we all know that personally and, I think, professionally. And so now our main focus, and what people know us for, is our award-winning storytelling. But then add on just this importance of sustainability, regenerative stewardship, you know.

Speaker 8: 1:10:11

So the content we're making, the work we're doing with our destination partners, all evolves around high quality content, story driven, story based. And then the power of that content and what you can do and connecting with travelers, connecting with the trade, having a positive impact, repositioning your destination, saying, hey, sustainability is important to us. Culture, community, nature, the outdoors, I mean, those are all under that sustainability umbrella. So what I love about the work we do is there's so much about education, all multi-stakeholders, the destinations, policymakers, government officials. So it's not, yes, I mean, what we're known for is our storytelling, but the power and the impact those great stories can have and you'll see it at our event tonight it just has a wonderful ripple effect and that's, at the end of the day, what we're trying to do and the impact and really help the industry be a force for good.

Speaker 2: 1:11:05

Well, certainly the part I love about what you do is the storytelling, and if people are multitasking while they're listening to our conversation, it's glpfilmscom, and you can see some of the amazing work that Rob and his team have been doing. What are some of the most recent projects, though? Obviously I'm going to get some highlights tonight, but, given our other listeners don't won't have the privilege of joining us, but they'll likely obviously check out the website and your social channels as well. What are some of the tourism board or brand partnerships that you've done recently that you're most proud of.

Speaker 8: 1:11:35

Yeah, it's always fun to see. You know, we filmed. We've been around 17 years and we filmed in over 45 countries, so there's a lot, but I will say you know, what's latest and greatest is typically what I'm most excited about, because we're constantly raising the bar and the quality of the work and the impact that we're trying to have. So right now we've come out with brand new series in the US, a couple of them one on the Oregon coast looking at accessibility and inclusion, which we'll be showing tonight and so powerful, powerful, just seeing people with all range of disabilities and their journey and experience in the travel industry. Then we've got another campaign. We rebranded the Finger Lakes region in upstate New York. It's a very popular wine destination but really was off the map when it came to outdoor. I, ironically, and one of my colleagues went to school in the region, so we knew it very well. So when we won this work, it was really cool to be working in a place that we knew really well and we're really pulling out the heart and soul of a destination that is an agriculture region but has really embraced the outdoor experience, and then throw in beverage, which is always fun, but I I'd say the.

Speaker 8: 1:12:41

The big work that we're excited to launch this year, which will be featured tonight, is our brand new campaign in Chile and that's really pushing the envelope with a destination, really seeing how travel and conservation have to work together much more closely, the impact travelers need to have. At the end of the day, travel needs to conserve the vital resources that are out there. We all know that. But then the conservation industry actually needs tourism, you know from an economic standpoint, from community development and whatnot. So I think really excited these are going to be. It's ultimately going to come down to three different films that we're going to have. We'll launch them officially at the summit down in Chile in October. We'll launch them officially at the summit down in Chile in October, but in the meantime we're going to give people a sneak preview of the work we're doing with an indigenous community in Chile that's really embraced the mountain biking industry.

Speaker 2: 1:13:34

So a lot of fun and it's always great to talk about what's coming ahead Well and just on that topic, given some of those projects, I know sustainability is core to your business. It's about sustainability is core to the whole storytelling strategy. I know you guys won the Regenerative Storyteller of the Year Award by Regenerative Travel, which is a great acclaim in and of itself. I know your storytelling aligns with the UN Sustainable Development Goals, which is obviously incredibly important.

Speaker 2: 1:13:59

I was asking Eric, as our listeners heard, about sustainability specifically because he certainly has a great passion for that, and I was trying to ask him some of the questions that often comes up in our interviews about how important is it really for travelers in their decision-making today? And what he highlighted to me is that certainly for adventure travel, if you're not a sustainable adventure travel business, you're not going to last very long because customers will quickly realize that and won't choose you. But when you look at sustainability and work with different partners, how did you build that into such a core part of your business and how do you ensure that you're telling that story as you look at new destinations, like this work you're doing in Chile and with indigenous communities? And what I'm ultimately trying to get to here, Rob, with this question is are you seeing more of a demand from partners to be able to promote their sustainable credentials, based on the fact that consumers are now starting to take more interest and make decisions based on companies' sustainability credentials.

Speaker 8: 1:15:00

Well, there's a lot to unpack with what you just said. You know, just for historical purposes, when I started GLP back in 2008, the focus was conservation. My undergrad is actually in wildlife management, so I came from a science background, so we came out of the gates all about conservation. Ironically, sustainability wasn't a buzzword then and it really didn't take off till, you know, about 10 years ago. And I remember just, and I remember just knocking on doors back then and sustainability what they had no idea.

Speaker 8: 1:15:30

Now, fast forward, after COVID, things have totally changed. Sustainability is now a buzzword, but unfortunately it's become overused. Greenwashing is excessive across the industry. We see it constantly. So for me, sustainability comes down to that unique, authentic experience that travelers can have where they have a positive impact. If it's culture, community, nature, you know, really, getting down to the basics, sustainability in my opinion it's a buzzword, but it's a B2B term. You know, it's an industry, it's a trade term. Travelers are looking for that. Like I said, that great experience that's going to have a positive impact and they're going to do good.

Speaker 8: 1:16:07

If you want to look at regenerative, that's fine, but one of the problems I have with the travel industry, or just industries in general, is people grab onto these terms and forget what it's all about behind the scenes, and so for us, sustainability means different things, different brands, different destinations. It's kind of all over the place, which is great, you know, because you know we look at a destination saying that is serious about sustainability and they want to do it right and that's, you know. We're not. Or I'll say the strategy work that we do with our destination partners is super exciting.

Speaker 8: 1:16:39

It's the part that I love the most, because they all want to do good, they all want to have a positive impact, they want to attract that responsible traveler and ultimately do stewardship, do sustainability. But that's where we come in and we help them because, at the end, great stories, authentic stories of local people, communities, experiences is that building block where we can come in, help them reposition, rebrand and then target those responsible travelers on the consumer side, and then also, like I said earlier, educate the trade and educate policymakers, government officials. Why is tourism important? Why is conservation important? You know all these things that we talk about. So content is that catalyst for change, and that's what's really exciting. And I put it on us. This is our responsibility, this is the role that we play in this industry is pushing travel, pushing the industry through great content, great stories, because I think the impact and change and transformation can be awesome.

Speaker 2: 1:17:35

Well, I certainly know that your team walks the walk. I've had the privilege to meet a number of your team members, in addition to yourself, in Panama last year, and it's clear that mission runs throughout the organization, and if you're looking at the team on their website, you can just see their bios and their backgrounds. I mean, it's clear that you've got a highly talented team that's totally engaged, and that's obviously, I'm sure, a major contributing factor to the outstanding work that you produce for a number of different clients. The thing I also wanted to ask you about, though, is just video production itself and its importance in 2025 and 2026 for most travel companies that are looking to grow their businesses.

Speaker 2: 1:18:13

I think very few travel companies do great video marketing, and there's always been this. In the last few years, you've heard more and more of it, because you've been around, for you know, with this business for over 15 years, and certainly video marketing has always been important, but it seems to be more important than ever, especially in an age of social media channels where you can actually have, you know, short snippets of videos and this whole short form video. It has been heavily talked about as one of the most important marketing trends of 2025. So I'd love to ask you, rob, while I have you with me, how you see video marketing in 2025, going into 2026, the importance for travel brands and even, if you wouldn't mind, some tips and suggestions for how brands can get into this space, whether it's working with you or other partners, so they can actually generate more video content that showcases what it is that they do. That's so special.

Speaker 8: 1:19:01

Well, I'll say on the content side ironically we're actually investing more and more into still photo and into text content articles. So ironically in this, day and age where video is taking off.

Speaker 8: 1:19:14

We're actually expanding and spreading because we're seeing the power and the synergy that they all can have with each other. So it's not just about video, but video is a major vehicle. I would say the biggest challenge that destinations, brands, anyone in the industry has with content is they have to let go of their sales and marketing goals. You know it's really hard. We run into it all the time. You know the salespeople want to get involved, the CEO wants to get involved and at the end of the day you have to take a step back and really realize you know what's the heart and soul of my brand, of my destination, and go find those characters, those people that are doing the job they love, because they love it, not because of an economic benefit, not because of X, y, z. It's because at the end you know it's through their veins, you know it's part of who they are and at the end you know. You know a strategy we've always had and pretty consistent, is guides end up being a major character in our films. Why? Because they love what they're doing. They're on the ground, they know the destination better than anyone else and they're not getting wealthy and getting rich off of it the average guide. You know they're doing it because they love it and so really captivating that, that passion, that love for the brand, the destination is so important at the end. But let's not, you know.

Speaker 8: 1:20:29

Let's be honest, though, video is huge, video's always been an important vehicle. That's why I grabbed on to it over 15 years ago and it's still that much more important. Obviously, the formats POV, drone, I mean there's a lot of ways to slice and dice it these days. So you have to be flexible. You have to look at social channels I mean now AI, I mean it's. You know things are changing, but you just have to, at the end, find out what makes.

Speaker 8: 1:20:54

You know there's a lot of components and building blocks of what is a great story. But that purpose also, that story arc, I mean that's the part that I love and that you'll see tonight at our event. You know, pulling out the passion to, you know, get tears flowing, get people really emotional and passionate, because that's, at the end of the day, what's going to inspire people, not a sales pitch, not a marketing pitch, and that's kind of our strategy and approach. There's a lot of great ways to produce content, and ours is not the only one, but we believe it. We see the results and the impact and at the end of the day, you know it's makes it all pretty fun.

Speaker 2: 1:21:24

Well, that authenticity certainly comes across in your work, and the emotional connection as well, which is probably one of the many reasons I like your work so much, because when it's profound, it's beautiful, and so that's why I wanted to ask you about video production.

Speaker 2: 1:21:40

So, but you did bring up a point there that I just wanted to quickly touch on, even though we could go make a left turn on AI. But I do want to just ask you about that, because there is opportunities now for companies to be able to create a. Won't call them out, because for the simple reason that I don't think it was intended that people would know that the entire video was AI, and when they showed it to me, I was genuinely shocked. It was promoting Australia as a destination, and I never would have thought that this was not real live footage, and so, in this age of AI, this is all the more important when you talk about being authentic and actually showing real people. So how are you thinking about how you incorporate AI and what are some of maybe your cautionary notes about what this is going to mean?

Speaker 8: 1:22:36

I would make the analogy with AI now to where I used to be in digital content. In starting my old company, trailscom, you know, taking guidebooks, putting them online, selling them through a subscription, the publishing industry was scared to hell. You know, saying holy cow, we're going to lose. You know, print sales, retail sales, wholesale, it's all going to go down and at the end of the day, it was creating a new market. So and I would say not that it's a direct correlation new market so, and I would say not that it's a direct correlation. You know, digital is a new industry, but AI, you know, at the end of the day, it's going to be a big slice of the pie for a lot of folks. It's definitely transforming, as we speak, industries and we're using it just because it can really help on the pre-production side, the research, the due diligence that we need to do. But at the end, for us, we are talking to real people, we are connecting with real people and I think a lot of content is going to be.

Speaker 8: 1:23:32

I would love to see a flagging system or something where you can really see if something is real, or AI. I think I don't know if that'll ever happen, but just to be able to decipher as the end consumer. But AI is going to transform every industry. I mean we can't rest on our laurels. We have to be aware we're using it. It's definitely a part of our team across the board, just because it does create a lot of efficiencies, it helps scale things, it definitely is a huge time saver. But I will say the niche that we're in producing quality content with real voices and real people I think that's going to be a tough one to duplicate, but never say never, and you just, at the end, you just have to follow what you do best Use technology to your advantage, no question, and then just kind of see where it goes.

Speaker 2: 1:24:21

Yeah, I appreciate sharing your perspective on that, and part of the reason I wanted to ask you, of course, is because we're also now at a time when even the social media platforms are having to flag if it's AI-generated content, and this is such an important element for consumers to understand, and my thought. That went through my mind when I saw this commercial for Australia. It looked beautiful and I've been to Australia and I love Australia and it inspired me to go to Australia, but at the same time, that wasn't actually Australia. So we're going to be in that time where we're weaving in AI content not you guys specifically, but certainly companies are going to be doing this and it's actually not the real authentic experience. It's trying to emulate it and so, consumer, we're going to have an AI component and there's so much content to produce. At the end of the day, you know it's okay.

Speaker 8: 1:24:57

I mean, there's going to be, you know, AI content there's going to be, you know, user generated content. There's going to be a lot of formats, commercials, you know, more storytelling based. So I think it's just going to be another type of content. It's going to help in a lot of good ways, get people inspired, get them, tease them on a destination. So I think everything, every type of content, is going to have its own niche and focus and at the end, you just you know, like us and any other company in the space, you just have to do what you do best.

Speaker 2: 1:25:39

I love what you said there, rob, which was it's going to be okay. And I think it's just like everyone just take a deep breath, understand what's happening but realize it's going to be okay. We're going to find our way through this. And because there's so much either hype or fear and it's just like it, kind of like some people just turn cold when you start talking about AI.

Speaker 8: 1:25:58

Yeah, you can't bury yourself underneath a rock. I mean, this is the reality, this is happening.

Speaker 2: 1:26:03

I'm going to start our AI summit with a quote from Rob Holmes. They're like first of all, I just want everyone to know it's going to be okay. I think that is the perfect place to start with AI. But, rob, I know this is a quick chat today to bring you into our ATTA highlight episode. I'm thrilled that we have the opportunity to do that because you're such a big part of this community, as the audience has learned, and I've certainly come to understand getting to know you and the team and what it is you guys do, so I'm obviously thrilled to know you. I'm so glad we're having this opportunity to sit down together, but I want to make sure that everyone listening to this can find out more information about how to connect with you and your team and then know what some of the exciting things that they should be paying attention to that you have coming up in the in the year ahead, like Chile, where I'm going to see you again. I'm so looking forward to seeing that video.

Speaker 8: 1:26:51

Yeah, I mean we're. I think it's always about what's coming up. You know we're going to just looking ahead for our, our schedule for upcoming destinations that we're working with. We'll be in Spain and the Pyrenees. We'll be in Poland doing a whole campaign around horse tourism. If anyone ever said we'd be doing stories around horse tourism, I would have said absolutely no way.

Speaker 8: 1:27:17

My mom's going to love this. She grew up with a horse, she loves horses. About is just a great opportunity to create positive change, to educate people, travelers and trade and then produce great content. That's just going to have a really nice ripple effect.

Speaker 2: 1:27:32

Fantastic, and then just to make sure, whether it's the social channels or we mentioned the website, but best ways to connect with you is it LinkedIn or yeah, linkedin is a great place to connect with me personally.

Speaker 8: 1:27:42

Just just our website, glp filmscom. You know we have a great newsletter that goes out and you know all the sessions here in Denver talk about, uh, you know, conversion and, and we get really good engagement on our newsletter. You know something old fashioned, very simple and but it's, it's looked at, it's. You know it's really people like to hear what we're talking about, what's going on in the industry, so, and all our social handles are GLP films, so you know you can find us out there and, honestly, for me, it's always about connecting in person with folks. So you know I look forward to connecting with you in the summit in October and anyone else that's going to be there Fantastic.

Speaker 2: 1:28:18

No, thank you, Rob. It's been great getting to know you and, obviously, getting this time together. We finally, and obviously getting this time together, we finally had a chance to sit down and record, and all of our listeners just know that Rob will be back for a full episode in season six as part of our Captains of Industry series, so it'll be a real pleasure to invite him back and have that conversation. So more to look forward to there, but certainly, rob, I look forward to spending more time together, getting to your event tonight and then seeing you in Chile, so thanks again, and all the best to you and the team.

Speaker 8: 1:28:43

Yeah, and I would just make a call out Our team plays a huge role in all this. I'm out there, I go to a lot of the majority of the events for our team, but I couldn't be doing any of this without all of our collective work, and I'm really proud. Our core team has been together for 17 years now, and that says a lot in this industry, and so I'm really proud. So, yeah, all the kudos goes to them too. So thanks, dan, very cool. Thanks, rob.

Speaker 2: 1:29:07

I now have the pleasure to speak to a dear old friend who I had the pleasure to work with at Lonely Planet a number of years ago. Christina Tana has been on the Travel Trends podcast already. It was one of the reasons I was looking forward to being here. I've seen her over the course of many years at various conferences. We saw each other in Panama last year and I knew Christina was going to be here, so I wanted to make sure we had the chance to record together. So, Christina, welcome back to Travel Trends.

Speaker 1: 1:29:31

Thank you, Dan. It's always good to see you and have a chat.

Speaker 2: 1:29:34

Yeah, likewise. And let's start with World Nomads and what you do, so that we just establish for our audience your role in the industry today, because you are a key player and you also work in a unique space, which is on the insurance side. So tell everyone a little bit about World Nomads and your role.

Speaker 1: 1:29:49

Sure, well, world Nomads has been around for a good 20 years, started out just adventure, travel and insurance and covering those wonderful things that people do when they go overseas, whether it be long haul, long duration, kayaking, skiing, skydiving Well, actually we don't do that anymore, but anyway, those all the adventure activities that are represented by the great operators that are here in different countries. And we have just grown over the last 20 years. And my role with that was starting out at World Nomads about 16 years ago and I was here purely as a affiliate development manager, and fast forward to today I now run the entire World Nomads Global Marketing and I run the operations of the Americas. So my role in remit and wingspan has grown tremendously, with wonderful opportunities here and full credit to you for navigating that through that whole time.

Speaker 2: 1:30:39

Because when we work together at Lonely Planet, what's interesting to me is that World Nomads and obviously you know this, but I'm sharing with our audience is that World Nomads was our primary insurance provider and we actually generated a lot of revenue and affiliate revenue by the traffic that Lonely Planet sent to World Nomads and it was a great partnership, great relationship and obviously a connection between how you kind of made the journey from Lonely Planet to World Nomads. But you have now gone on this incredible journey with World Nomads and World Nomads has also a new parent company. Tell us a little bit about how this organization has evolved over that time, because that is the brand that a lot of consumers have become familiar with. But this world of insurance is much more complex than even I understand. So tell us a little bit about how the company's evolved over that time.

Speaker 1: 1:31:22

Great, great memory actually, for remembering that the introduction to World Nomads was through Lonely Planet and that we were a tremendous partner for Lonely Planet and driving a lot of ancillary revenue for that particular brand and tremendous partner for Lonely Planet and driving a lot of ancillary revenue for that particular brand.

Speaker 1: 1:31:34

And that's what we try and do with all of our partner companies as well, and the way that we've evolved. I think the world of travel insurance I think that's another three-hour boring People don't want to listen about insurance for three hours but it's a very complex world. It's very regulated by different countries and their jurisdictions and how those particular departments of insurance decide what is important for their particular residents when it comes to insurance coverages. World Nomads has been able to navigate that complexity by being able to offer a panel of different insurers that enable us to offer our plans to different residents of over 100 countries. So we've taken that heavy lifting because it is extremely complex and every plan is different in the sense that if you're a French person doing the same dates, going to a different, that same destination, as an American, it's going to be very different plan because of that complexity. So we've been able to navigate and really sort of become a global travel insurance provider.

Speaker 2: 1:32:28

Well, what's interesting to me is that World Nomads was certainly ahead of the curve on being a great brand that was well marketed and also well executed in the product experience, because someone who's taking a well there's an adventure travel or an extreme independent trip and they want to make sure they have insurance. World Nomads spoke to them in a way that they could understand why they needed insurance and what type of insurance they needed, and a lot of traditional insurance companies just hadn't figured this out how best to market and message themselves to this type of audience. So credit to you and the team for building out such a successful global business with World Nomads. Tell us where you guys are today with this business and what brings you to ATTA.

Speaker 1: 1:33:12

Yeah, I think one of the things that makes us different is the surrounding aspects of our brand, as you noted, in terms of we want to make sure that insurance is tangible for people the traveler and the business partner that we have the affiliates and we try and distill it into just the simplest of terms and think about you're telling your mom at the kitchen table what this coverage is, and that's the lens by which we create all of our content to help the industry understand what insurance does for them as a business, but as the insured as well, and the traveler.

Speaker 1: 1:33:45

So that's really important and I think that's been the success for us in terms of how we've partnered with a lot of the people in this industry and, in this particular event, is we've been able to really resonate with them around that simplicity, but also the fact that we cover adventure travel activities and it's embedded in our plan. So that's really what keeps us coming here. This is really the core of our business and the core of our community and our tribe in terms of who we really want to work with, and we do see working with these partners not just transactional, it really is a partnership and it's about helping them, particularly that small and mid-growth phase company to help them with their marketing. We do marketing campaigns with them, not just on travel insurance but just generally marketing and help them amplify their overall brand awareness. And I think that's what makes us different as an insurance company we're not just insurance.

Speaker 2: 1:34:30

For sure, and it's a perfect brand fit, from my perspective, world Nomads and Adventure Travel and Trade Association, given exactly what you described, the fact that you offer insurance for adventure travel experiences. Tell us a little bit how you actually got involved with ATTA and the reason I want to ask you that is because a lot of our global listeners, with this episode, are starting to learn more about ATTA. That's sort of our commitment to this partnership is that we're doing this quarterly series with Shannon and the team to expand ATTA's global reach. I love this organization. I definitely feel like it's my tribe as well, but you guys have been an early partner and a strong partner. I saw your logo on the screen earlier, so tell us a little bit about the type of partnership, so for other companies that might be considering coming to these events and getting involved in ATTA, how it came to be and how it's working out for you.

Speaker 1: 1:35:13

Yeah, we've been members, I believe, since 2008,. Maybe even before. I believe we had representation at the very first one in Seattle, I understand. And of course there's the famous one in Norway where I think even members today who were at that event still talk very lovingly about the experience of being on the boat in horrendous waters. So we've been members ever since then and it's been a real great relationship with not just the fellow members but with the ATTA itself, and so we've been sponsoring for quite a number of years now, because we do see the value of having that presence and having that deeper penetration and relationship with the ATTA team across different opportunities, whether it's Elevate or the Summit, but also in between those moments of events. That's the important part is how do you connect with members in between the in-presence, in-face opportunities and there's plenty of that and so new members, whether they're small companies or the larger companies, I feel, see that value of cultivating that relationship beyond the transaction and it really creates for a wonderful opportunity, no matter how you enter the membership.

Speaker 2: 1:36:17

For sure. So clearly there's a ton of networking opportunities and new partners. Are there certain sessions that you are speaking on or certain sessions you're looking forward to being a part of? Just from the learnings, what are some of the other benefits from being here in Denver?

Speaker 1: 1:36:29

Yeah, well, I always. I have spoken in past events and really enjoy the camaraderie of fellow speakers as well and sharing knowledge, which is what this is all about. This year, in terms of Denver itself, it's really trying to concentrate on the North American Adventure Travel Company and some of the sessions are really around trends what's happening, what's the zeitgeist of what's happening in operator space, in climate change space, or in guiding and safety and all kinds of different topics. So you're always getting a new nugget and my notebook's full. You're always picking up something to go. I have all my notes in front of me, but no, it's just. There's always wisdom that comes out from fellow speakers, fellow attendees, but also what's on stage.

Speaker 2: 1:37:10

Yeah, no, that's really interesting and I think that's where you know you, not only World Nomads, but your role and the fact that you've been able to build this organization to be as successful as it has been globally. You have a unique global understanding, not only because you work for Lonely Planet, but there's one of the things that you know we're here in the US.

Speaker 2: 1:37:26

Half of the attendees I came to learn from Shannon are international which is another key reason to come to an event like this, and even despite the fact that we're living in sort of challenging, uncertain times with tariffs and some of the geopolitical events. You know, I've traveled here from Canada many, and I've been to events recently that are not as well attended, because, you know, there certainly are people that are not traveling to the US at the moment, but the one thing that was actually really encouraging and I know Shannon was obviously thrilled to see is just the level of support they've received from their community. That have just said I'm still going to travel because I want to go to ATTA, I want to go to Denver, whatever else is going on. That might actually cause me to rethink that I'm still going to go because this is my tribe, this is my community, and their numbers are higher than they've ever been, and I know, a couple of months ago, shannon was genuinely concerned, and so this is, I guess, just highlighting that to our global audience is that, despite these other factors, you want to be a part of that community, and you've been a big part of this community, and the question I wanted to ask you, though, is that, as this world continues to evolve and change and even though you guys were ahead of the curve with how you marketed and positioned travel insurance.

Speaker 2: 1:38:29

There's more and more competition today and there's companies. Actually, one of the sponsors of our season five of our podcast is Protect Group and it's really interesting that a good friend of mine moved over to work with them recently, steven, and is loving his new role. But they're not an insurance company, as I've come to understand. They're this, you know cancel for any reason. New business model. They're a fintech company.

Speaker 1: 1:39:02

So tell us a little bit about what's happening in the insurance industry, how you guys are adapting and staying relevant, and the face of risk, I think, is a fascinating subject, and there's new companies of how to, how to merchandise it, how to make it accessible to people, whether it be through mobile only or whether it be through an embedded insurance play or very structured, very defined bespoke plans for for an operator, and there's just a lot of clever businesses out there and underwriters and distributors who are really thinking of new ways. And I invite it, I embrace it. I think it's fabulous that we're really, as I say, you can't use an old map to navigate new territory, and the disruption that's happening is a terrific way of really putting everybody on notice. We need new maps.

Speaker 2: 1:39:45

Yeah, well, that's why I wanted to ask you that, because you remain at the forefront of this space, so I know you're seeing all of these changes, and so what are some of the things for the consumers that are listening to this as they're thinking about travel insurance and who to partner with? What are some of the things or guidance and advice and the reason? I ask you that? Because I'm going to follow on to this, referring to the episode that you are a part of, with some of the unique characteristics about the insurance industry. But, yeah, tell us for our listeners that are trying to navigate this world, whether it be for their own travels or travel organizations that are trying to figure out how they better sell travel insurance what are some of the things they should be paying attention to today.

Speaker 1: 1:40:19

I always distill it down to three simple things. What's important to the individual? It's an individual contract. The insured traveler has to make sure that they're comfortable with what is important to them. Is it their stuff, is it their investment in the trip or is it their health? Three very simple buckets. Once you figure out which one of those three you care most about, then that enables you to zero in on your options out there. And please read the policy wording. I know it's not the most exciting, but it really is. 10 minutes of your investment of time could get you the right plan to make sure that you're really traveling with just ease, of peace of mind and just comfort that someone else in addition to your operator or your guide is going to be giving you the best experience that you could possibly have in that destination.

Speaker 2: 1:41:06

Yeah, really good point. And it's interesting you mentioned that because, as a Canadian traveling to the US, whenever I'm traveling I always have to make that decision, which is do I want the coverage for the trip cost, as you mentioned? Do I want to cover my stuff if I lose any of my things? And for me it's always just healthcare. So it's like you know, if my flight gets canceled, I'll sort that out with my credit card company, or so I'm less concerned about the flight, the cost of the trip, although that can be incredibly important if you booked a river cruise or if you booked an ocean cruise, and there's many reasons why you should absolutely insure.

Speaker 2: 1:41:38

It's funny because I work with a lot of travel companies and you can't technically make insurance mandatory. It's one of those things that you know that from this space, even though most travel companies would say you need to buy insurance and there's so many reasons why you should insure your trip. So that is certainly the exception to what I'm saying now. What I'm highlighting is that health insurance is paramount for anyone traveling anywhere in the world to make sure they can be repatriated or that they can be taken care of. So that's a good way to break those three categories down. What do you see in the next year we're having this conversation in 2025 for world nomads and for this industry. What are some of the things that are changing with your company to be able to make world nomads that much more relevant to travelers today?

Speaker 1: 1:42:25

Yeah, and some of the things that we're listening to, the zeitgeist of what's important and what's been evolving in this particular adventure travel space has been the cancel for any reason piece, and so we've introduced that recently because we know that there are lots of myriad of reasons why people might need to back out of a trip and the operator is not going to be able to give them a full refund of their deposit because of their cancellation policies. And that's very fair. That's how operators run their businesses, and so the traveler has to be very comfortable with. If they are going to be thinking of any possible eventuality that would compel them to have to cancel their trip, then they're going to need to get a policy that enables them to do that, and so cancel for any reason is one of those additional options that we've introduced into our plans. And we've also uplifted our plans into higher cancellation benefit, trip cancellation benefit limits, because the cost of travel has increased from when we first launched 20 years ago, and back then $2,500 and $5,000 was considered a very high-end trip, but now we've been able to introduce new plans that sort of up the ante for the travelers that are maybe spending upwards of $10,000, $15,000, et cetera.

Speaker 1: 1:43:29

So we've upped the benefits, we've included cancel for any reason and we've also done some really great non-insurance stuff, and I think that's the space where a lot of insurance companies are going to start seeing some value adds. Things like before you go, get a telemedicine consultation on what kind of medicines you might need vaccinations, can they write a prescription for you for altitude sickness or for seasickness that type of preparation for your trip is very important, particularly in this segment where you're doing high altitudes, you're doing water-based adventures, you're going to want to know exactly how to handle a situation and can a telemedicine health consultation help you do that? That's not an insurance benefit, it's a non-insurance benefit, but it's a service Tracking your bag. I think we have to be very conscious of strikes happen, delays happen, flights get canceled, your bag is in Rome but you're in Helsinki, so things like that. Travelers want help to make them whole and get their bag back to them, and we're offering those types of things in our plans now, which is great.

Speaker 2: 1:44:27

I'm really glad you highlighted that, because that actually has been an interesting source of new startups that air help and lost luggage and like this, because there's some staggering stats about the number of bags that are lost every day. I don't want to cite the so and some of the regulations that the airlines are now responsible for around flight delays and lost luggage, so that's interesting that you guys have moved into that space as well. The other thing I just wanted to talk about going is going back to the conversation that we had on our travel trends podcast and one of the things I so enjoyed about that conversation. So, for those of you who want to go back and listen to that, we actually did a look at the state of US travel and obviously some of that's. We had a really interesting conversation about the state of US travel and we had three amazing colleagues.

Speaker 2: 1:45:25

Christine obviously was a key part of that, and I had a friend from AARP as well, and then another colleague, ryan. Ryan from Grand European Tours, and we got into the discussion about AARP and one of the things that the most common searched term is sex on their website, and Christina then proceeded to inform us that STDs are covered with travel insurance, and we actually literally renamed the title of that episode to factor that in, because I just thought it was like but these are the things that might be like that myself or others wouldn't be aware of, that are unique to what gets insured and like you know, just some of these tips and advice from you, I just think it's so valuable and that was that was a an interesting one, but yeah tell us a few more along those lines.

Speaker 1: 1:46:22

I mean, people do things when they travel and, um, where are we're in the business of? Of protecting them from the unknown, not in judging the activities that they necessarily do that get them into certain pickles. So, yes, an illness is an illness, no matter what sort of guise it comes under. We've had in the past situations where, particularly in certain countries where monkeys might be sort of part of the furniture, they sort of hang out in restaurants and some even places have pet monkeys and they're sort of there for the public and some people get too close to the monkey and the monkey bites them. So we've covered monkey bites, we've covered, you know, nips from other animals when you're experiencing a place and that little critter just gets you when you probably weren't expecting it. So, yeah, we do have all kinds of different scenarios that you would think were sort of written in a children's book, but they happen.

Speaker 2: 1:47:16

Oh, that's great. I appreciate you sharing those. I do want to make sure because obviously this is a vignette conversation as part of this event spotlight, because Christina and I we're going to chat later and obviously I love catching up with you. It's so great to see you. I do want to make sure that people know how to follow up with you and connect with you, because you're such a great leader in this industry and you have so much to offer, and I know you're active on LinkedIn and so you've always been there for me when I've reached out for assistance, guidance and it's one of those things.

Speaker 2: 1:47:45

I just wanted to highlight this to our listeners as well, and we were actually having a chat with a couple of colleagues just before we sat down to record and there is certainly this sense in this industry that good people know good people and although we only overlap briefly at Lonely Planet, we've stayed in touch for like nearly 20 years it seems like 15 years at least and through different roles.

Speaker 2: 1:48:11

And this is where I think it's really important, especially for the younger listeners, because one of the certainly audiences that we have for this podcast is people that are looking to get into the travel industry and the importance of building your own personal brand and paying it forward and taking the time to, willing to invest in other people, and you've done that, and I think that's part of why we get along so well and we have such a great rapport and relationship, because if I've ever needed something, I've reached out or like vice versa, and you know, and, and we also just genuinely get along, which is which is lovely as well. So I just wanted to acknowledge that, because I think you're a fantastic executive in this industry. I think you have so much to offer and obviously, I think it's wonderful that we've been able to continue this relationship over many years. So I just wanted to say I wish you every success in this year ahead and I look forward to continue to collaborate with you.

Speaker 1: 1:48:47

Oh, dan, thank you so much. That's very kind, very high praise, but I appreciate it and likewise very much so I think you're right. I think it's the authenticity of the camaraderie that you and I have, but also what this industry, I think, engenders and I say to young people all the time. I was having a conversation last night at Coors Field where someone's daughter was there and she had asked me what can you tell my daughter, who is newly coming into this industry, potentially? And I said rely on your personality, rely on your true self, because people want to work with people they like, and it's not necessarily what you know and your skills, it's if you're likable and you can work with people. That's the base coat for any young person entering any industry, but particularly this one.

Speaker 2: 1:49:30

Yeah, Now there's certainly a huge element to being authentic. The counter side to that sometimes is don't overshare.

Speaker 1: 1:49:36

Well, that's true too. That's true too. Be yourself. You're not an open book. Save some chapters for later.

Speaker 2: 1:49:43

I see some younger generations coming in, I'm just like, well, maybe not all of that information, but nevertheless you're spot on with their assessment. So just to make sure that people can connect with you. So if they want to learn more about World Nomads but also connect with you directly, Christina, how best to do that?

Speaker 1: 1:49:58

So worldnomadscom is where they'll find out all about our business and our history and what we do, and, for me, find me on LinkedIn. Christina Tana is my name. It's pretty unique and I'm based out of California, so look forward to connecting.

Speaker 2: 1:50:12

That's great. Thank you again, christina, wonderful to see you. Thank you, dan. I'd now like to welcome Richard Naha to the conversation. He's the owner of a really fascinating company called Surf Synergy, which is based in Costa Rica an amazing part of the world he is, actually. He lives in Denver. He started this company four years ago and I was keen to have him part of this conversation because it really represents the global nature of ATTA and so, richard, great to have you with us.

Speaker 6: 1:50:36

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2: 1:50:38

Now I understand, is this your first ATTA. It is Very cool, so tell us what brought you here for this. I mean, obviously you're local, so that's probably helpful.

Speaker 6: 1:50:45

Yeah, no, we are a travel-based company in Costa Rica, and Costa Rica is very travel, uh, adventure travel oriented and uh, so it made a lot of sense to come here and meet some new people.

Speaker 2: 1:50:57

For sure. So let's tell everyone about Surf Synergy. And I was I, when I was just getting a chance to, uh, uh, to meet Richard, cause we've we've literally just met and I was preparing for our conversation and checking out his website and I know we'll talk about that at the end but surfsynergycom for those of you who are multitasking and I was blown away about some of the experiences and the surf opportunities and the wellness focus. So tell us a little bit about when you created it I guess about four years ago but tell us about Surf Synergy. How did you create it, why did you create it and what do you guys do?

Speaker 6: 1:51:25

Sure. So during COVID, my wife and I we have three sons we went to Costa Rica for a week and saw that the kids could remote school and that we could work remotely. So we extended our trip to six weeks and five months later we were, which is a semi-normal trend in Costa Rica, because you show up and the people are so welcoming and beautiful and the hospitality there is amazing. So people fall in love with it and the story of people that go home and sell everything and move to Costa Rica is is common. Uh, I know two people that fit that description. So, yes, and so we ended up staying five months. My wife and I had tried surfing many times in life, with really minimal success, so we basically had, you know, crossed it off the list of things you don't learn later in life. But we're there, we knew we were going to be there for a while. So the kids wanted to learn to surf. They were 16, 18, 20 at the time. So we walked into a surf shop and said we wanted to buy five surfboards and the person probably sold us his worst five surfboards, because it was COVID and very little business and he just probably gave us his worst boards. So then we took a couple lessons and continued to have very limited success. And somebody introduced us to Marcel Oliveira. He had come to Costa Rica from Venezuela as a semi-pro mountain biker but at the time was a five-year reigning national champion stand-up paddle surfer and stand-up paddle racer, and he's very meticulous about equipment and making sure that we're on the right board at the right beach at the right time of day. So we met him on the beach. He looked at our five surfboards and said absolutely those are not the right boards for you. And so we went to a rental shop and rented five appropriate surfboards and then we had success. And so then we you know the light bulb goes off, and so then Marcel comes over every day and whoever was available to surf would go surfing. And then he started filling in our spare time with things like breathing clinics. So he got our breath holds up to about four minutes, which doesn't mean we're super human, just means he trained us through proper technique to expand our lung capacity and and train our brains on um and how you can hold your breath for that long, and started doing some free diving and some spearfishing, and, and then he layered in, he suggested that we get a videographer, uh, to show us what we're doing right and what we're what we could do better surfing. And so every night after dinner we would watch our surf videos and he would point out, make corrections.

Speaker 6: 1:54:17

And so here we are with our teenage sons bonding over learning how to surf. Very cool, and most parents are looking for a way to connect with their teenagers. And here we are every night, congratulating each other on our good rides and laughing at our bloopers. And so here we are bonding night, congratulating each other on our good rides and laughing at our bloopers. And so here we are, bonding with our teenage kids. And then we hired a chef just to cook healthy food for us. And Marcel is a biohacker. He's 46 years old, still kicking every 22-year-old stud his sports and um, but got us eating healthy food. So here we are our kids are eating broccoli and carrots. And because it puts more nitric oxide in your blood so you can hold your breath longer. And and he just kept layering on layer after layer, doing yoga, doing sauna, ice bath, contrast therapy.

Speaker 6: 1:55:10

And after four months we looked at him and said, marcel, there's millions of people in the world that would want to experience this. You know, surfing has this allure. It's kind of bucket list material. But most people think it's too difficult or too dangerous and maybe their first experience wasn't good because they stayed somewhere and they took a surf lesson and they probably put them on the wrong board at the wrong beach at the wrong time of day. But Marcel's approach was just very measured and it ensures success. And so a property came available. So we told Marcel we'd be willing to buy it to give him a platform to take his knowledge and skills to the world, versus one customer a day out of the trunk of his car kind of thing. And so we bought the property, literally thinking well, if the business doesn't make it, we can just use the property as our retirement.

Speaker 6: 1:56:07

We were in our 50s, during COVID, when we moved down there. But the reviews started rolling in, people having the trip of their lifetime, and so we remodeled the bungalows that were on the property. We built out a commercial kitchen, we hired an Ayurvedically trained chef that developed our menu and sourced all of our ingredients with intention from local farmers, and built out this amazing culinary team. And the reviews kept rolling in. So we embarked on building an 11,000-square-foot luxury villa that was designed by one of the top spa designers in the world, and so it feels like somebody's amazing 11,000 square foot house, but it functions like a luxury boutique hotel. And the reviews kept rolling in. And now we're winning awards the top awards in the industry for wellness and spa Unbelievable.

Speaker 2: 1:57:07

This is an extraordinary story and the one thing I have to ask you, richard, because clearly, as you highlighted, there's the resort, you run retreats and it was, like you know, the business has come so far in four years. What was your background before this?

Speaker 6: 1:57:21

Actually real estate investments in startup companies.

Speaker 2: 1:57:24

So none of this was so that all tracks I was like how did this all come into play? Because it seems like the stars just aligned, based on timing and obviously, but I clearly figured you have to have a background in this to be able to have been so successful so quickly.

Speaker 6: 1:57:38

Yeah, I don't take credit for the success of the business. I think Marcel's vision and his passion for wellness has really just percolated throughout the business we bought a property circulated throughout the business. We bought a property. It took a financial risk that, like I said, at the end of the day, if the business failed we would just use it as a retirement property. So I don't take credit in that.

Speaker 6: 1:58:02

I think our credit is really sticking to our values of doing what's best for the guest and uh and really focused on building a community of like-minded people who want to live this healthier adventure lifestyle and uh, and so we treat every guest like they're going to be part of our community forever. And, yeah, we have dozens of people who have never gone back to the same place twice because they're world travelers and they like to experience new things and they almost pride themselves on not going anywhere twice, that have been with us eight times and it's really turned into this, you know, wellness community, where you actually heal and learn and grow. And, yes, you learn how to surf and you know, really the surfing is a flow state, activity, um and uh. So it takes everything in your mind and body to, you know, to line up the wave, to paddle, to stand up, and so when you stand up on the board, your brain releases the serotonin, the dopamine, the endorphins that you know any addiction uh, gives you, and it's actually the number one.

Speaker 2: 1:59:12

Sure beats gambling and alcohol.

Speaker 6: 1:59:13

Yeah, it's actually the number one way to replace an addiction, because you get that serotonin.

Speaker 6: 1:59:19

Yeah, you always have to replace it. That's why they have methadone clinics, so you can get addicted to a slightly less, you know, harmful drug. But surfing is the healthiest addiction and I liken it to. You know, a lot of things in life are negative reciprocating cycles, where you're feeling a little bit down, so you have a piece of chocolate cake, and then you gain some weight and then you have less energy and then you don't go to the gym and it just kind of compounds in a negative direction.

Speaker 6: 1:59:48

But surfing I know my next surf trip is six weeks, so I know that my next surf trip will be more successful If I, if I lose a couple pounds, if I gain flexibility, if I gain some upper body strength. So I, you know, I did yoga this morning and I go to the gym and I'm not going to have a glass of wine tonight, and so then I show up in Costa Rica in six weeks and my surfing is a little bit better. But then I feel a little bit better and maybe look a little bit better, and so then that's a positive reciprocating cycle. That's all of that is very addicting, very cool.

Speaker 2: 2:00:26

And so tell us about where your kids are now, because you mentioned that they were 16, 18 and 20. At the time, yeah, and that was four years ago. So have any of them gone on to work in the business now in Costa Rica? Are they all back here? So yeah, fast forward four years to where you are today. Where is the family? And, I guess then, where is the business at today?

Speaker 6: 2:00:48

Yeah, so at the time we had one in college and two in high school. Now one's out of college and two are in college and, uh, they all love going to Costa Rica. One's in California, one was at university of San Diego, um, so they still have surf in their blood. But you know, now they're full-time students and you know, one has a full-time job. So their lives have taken over. Maybe someday they'll be more involved in the business, but they're still kind of doing the stereotypical Western society path.

Speaker 2: 2:01:24

And then the resort itself, because, as we were highlighting and I've got the website here in front of me the one thing I wanted to make sure everyone knows exactly where it is in Costa Rica. Is it Yaco? Jaco Jaco, thank you for the correct pronunciation. So tell us exactly where that is in Costa Rica.

Speaker 6: 2:01:41

Sure, you fly into the San Jose airport and it's about a 90-minute drive straight west. It's the closest surf town to the airport. It's on a paved road, so a lot of surf places in Costa Rica is a four-hour drive down a bumpy road and so that's kind of. First advantage is the proximity and the ease of a lot of direct flights into San Jose. We pick you up, get you tucked in and then the other advantage is we have nine different beaches to choose from.

Speaker 6: 2:02:11

So a lot of places where you go around the world the surf conditions are what Mother Nature gives you on that beach that day and sometimes that's too big for you, your level, and sometimes it's too small. Of Costa Rica the swells come from the South and the geography of the coastline gives us a lot of ability to either hide from the bigger swells for beginners or take intermediates to the more advanced beaches. So we get a lot of choices every day different beaches that react to different swell directions and sizes that react to different swell directions and sizes. So it's kind of worldwide known as one of the best places to learn and the highest chance of getting people on appropriate waves for their level every day.

Speaker 2: 2:03:05

Very cool, and one thing I was also looking at is that you know, given you're here and certainly there's travel advisors here and trade partners, you guys have resort buyouts. That's one of the things that you offer working with travel advisors and group leaders. And so, as we middle of 2025 and look at what's ahead, what is next for Surf Synergy I certainly now get the branding that much better. I mean, it makes such a difference. Obviously, the website is great, the images are stunning, but sitting down and speaking to you like we are now understanding your backstory and that entire journey that you've been on, um, it is, it's truly remarkable. Tell us what your vision is for the future, cause obviously you you don't have to now rely on this and just being a, a retirement property, this is a fully thriving resort business.

Speaker 6: 2:03:56

Yeah, so the future. You know, we've the first couple of years. We recognize that we did an amazing job of providing an incredible seven night vacation, but then we saw in people's eyes when they were leaving that they didn't want to leave. They want to live this type of lifestyle. So we are. We are actually, uh, we've just finished the design of a world-class wellness center and uh, and villas. So we're we have 12 for sale villas and that would allow people to live on site, have access to our food and and the amenities, and, and so it's really about building this community of people that will, um, you know, not just come for seven nights and we'll never see them again, but they might live full-time on site or, you know, two, three months, whatever they can swing in their schedule.

Speaker 2: 2:04:43

That's exciting, that's great. And what about you are? How much time are you spending there now?

Speaker 6: 2:04:47

Uh, about a third of my time.

Speaker 2: 2:04:48

Very cool. That's fantastic. And let's bring ourselves back to ATTA, because I'm sure there's many reasons. That's where our conversation started. Now that we've had that conversation, it is that much clearer to me all the opportunities that exist for you being part of ATTA. I mean, this is the perfect community for you to connect with, to be able to generate more business Certainly people that will book up at the resort or also just be able to partner with you in a number of different ways. So, yeah, tell us what are some of the things you're hoping to get out of being here in Denver this year and your participation ATTA.

Speaker 6: 2:05:22

Sure, we run a beautifully curated wellness retreat. We pick you up at the airport, we drop you back off at the airport, Everything in between is curated. Our food is amazing. It's the number one compliment of all of our. We have 100% five-star reviews on Google and the first comment is the food. And um, our yoga is amazing. Our breathing, our contrast therapy, it's all amazing. And so, as a retreat leader, uh, you don't have to worry about finding transportation or a yoga teacher or a chef, it's all taken care of.

Speaker 6: 2:05:55

And then, from a kind of business retreat, corporate retreats, you know, President's Club, learning to surf is a very bonding activity Because if you haven't surfed before, you're going to be outside of your comfort zone, You're going to be, you know, a, You're going to be a little anxious, and our breathing clinics address that anxiety. And so everyone's kind of level set right. Everyone's going into it a little uncomfortable, and then we have 100% success from age four to 84. So you will stand on a surfboard day one, 84. So you will stand on a surfboard day one, and so will the members of your team or the people in your company or the members of your family. And and then you do the video analysis where you watch the videos. So day one there's a lot of chuckling and by day six everybody's blown away with what they've accomplished and how much they've grown and and you've done that together.

Speaker 6: 2:06:51

So from a corporate retreat standpoint, it's an amazing journey for family retreats, multi-generational travel. You know grandparents that want to bring their kids and their grandkids, and everyone learn how to surf together. We had a 75-year-old woman from Florida last year got diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. Her dying wish was to learn how to surf. So she brought four of her kids and nine of her grandkids. They all learned how to surf together. So now there's nine kids out there that can say they learned how to surf with their grandmother. Wow, and it was just an incredible memory. We've got a video and audio team that you know did all their family portraits, you know, with the beautiful background and, and you know memories that will last generations For sure.

Speaker 2: 2:07:35

That's really powerful. So, given that many people now listening to this are going to be either already on your website or making plans to travel there. I know I'm certainly I couldn't be more keen I've. Part of the reason I wanted to ask where it was located is just given. I've got a number of friends that have relocated to Costa Rica or they spend half of the year there. And how can people connect with you, learn more about Surf Synergy? What are the best ways to connect with you for those people that are listening to this now to engage with you and keep in touch?

Speaker 6: 2:08:05

Sure Website is surfsynergycom. Instagram is surfsynergy. The phone number on the website rings my cell phone phone and my email is rich at surf synergycom.

Speaker 2: 2:08:17

That's really cool. I'm so glad we had the opportunity to meet and have this conversation. I'm really excited. I was going to say I wish you every success. You don't need that for me, you've already. You've already made it. But I just cannot believe how, how unique and interesting your story is and, given the start of our podcast was during the pandemic and tracking consumer behavior from the pandemic and like the journey you've been on, it mirrors that perfectly. So I've really enjoyed meeting you, thoroughly enjoyed this conversation and look forward to keeping in touch.

Speaker 6: 2:08:45

Yeah, for sure, come on down.

Speaker 2: 2:08:48

I now have the pleasure to speak to the founder and CEO of Boulder Technology, Eric, who's actually based in Oslo, but he's been over in the US for a few weeks and he's here at ATTA for his second time. He came to the Global Summit last year, a couple of years ago.

Speaker 9: 2:09:05

Yeah, in Hokkaido Japan.

Speaker 2: 2:09:07

Yes, exactly, we didn't see each other in Panama, but you've been to ATTA before and we're also joined by Jason Reckers, who runs Adventure Travel. He works at ATTA, so welcome, jason, thank you. It's nice to be here. For sure, man, it's great to have you guys both, because I know you're partnering together. So this is going to be an interesting conversation where we have the two of you join. But let's start with Eric.

Speaker 9: 2:09:33

Give us a little background of Boulder Technologies and what it is you do. Yeah, so Boulder Technologies is a company that focuses on human-centered technology, so we want to kind of make sure that the individual is in the driving seat when we think about how we design technology and basically give people tools where they have agency and control over their own digital relationships. So that's kind of at the core of what Boulder do.

Speaker 2: 2:09:53

And what is your background specifically? Is your background technology, travel, a combination of both?

Speaker 9: 2:09:58

As an entrepreneur. You've been touching a lot of different areas, but I'm trained as a naval engineer and I have a background there in kind of doing different stuff in sustainability and kind of doing different stuff in sustainability. So that's kind of where I started and advanced open systems design, cool and then some background as a mountain guide. So that's kind of what drives me to the adventure side. I've been traveling a lot.

Speaker 2: 2:10:26

Cool. So when did you start this company? Tell us a little bit more about Boulder Technology and what brings you here to ATTA.

Speaker 9: 2:10:33

Yeah, so I started Boulder Technology out of the frustration of not having technology that worked for me. Every time I was trying to implement technology in my business, it was about some other company extracting data from my company and getting in the way of having deep relationships with my customers, which was like one of the most important things for my business, and when you're in adventure, it is so important to know your business and your partners, for sure.

Speaker 2: 2:11:04

And then the connection with ATTA, and especially with Jason, because I know you guys have some plans to collaborate together.

Speaker 9: 2:11:10

Yeah. So I mean we met through Chris Doyle, which was one of the co-founders of ATTA, and then he introduced me to both Shannon and Jason during an event in Oslo that we just kind of randomly ran into each other. How life goes, yeah, yeah, and we had this great meeting at the bar late evening. We ended up going out to dinner and we talked about what we could potentially do with our technology for the adventure industry, and then we just started looking into how we can do something exciting together.

Speaker 2: 2:11:51

That's cool. I'm going to bring Jason in the conversation on this note, but, as I do, I just want to highlight that there was two people that actually said to me you've got to speak to Eric, and one of them is this lady, julie Thorner, who's actually one of our sponsors for our AI Summit. She runs a company called Liquid Spark and I know you guys know each other and she knew that we were going's just record together. And then our good friend, or my good friend, christian Wolters, at Intrepid, met you yesterday and was like you got to speak to Eric. So the hype has been built up, but we not only have Eric, we have Jason, and I actually think this will give us good context to understand the dynamic between ATTA and Boulder Technology. So tell us Jason. Well, first of all, tell us a little bit about your role, because I didn't give you the full introduction there. So a little bit about your role, and then tell us how you're looking to partner with Boulder Technology.

Speaker 5: 2:12:36

Sure, I'm the Chief Operating Officer for Adventure Travel Trade Association, for ATTA. I've been working with Shannon since pretty much the beginning, so it's been almost 20 years now, and we feel like we've been able to really help bring the industry together as a trade. From you know, focusing on the trade and the B2B connections that we're hearing more and more is. You know, it's great that you're helping us connect with each other and also learn about trends etc. But we also could use your help in reaching the right traveler, and I think the right traveler is an interesting point, because they're not just looking for any traveler, whether that's a tour operator or a destination, and so what we've started to do is think about well, what does that mean and how do we apply that? And so we have a site called adventuretravel that has been around a long time and really has historically been a listing of our tour operators who serve travelers, and so, and it's just a very simple site where you can find a tour operator and then go off to their website.

Speaker 5: 2:14:01

Well, as a part of this, what we've also heard is that the industry really wants to be able to tell their sustainability stories, wants to be able to tell their sustainability stories, what are the good things that they're doing for wildlife, wild places, local communities, et cetera, et cetera, and they want help in telling that story better.

Speaker 5: 2:14:27

You know, prime example is working with you and travel trends and being able to connect the tour operators to someone who can help tell those stories, travel trends and being able to connect the tour operators to someone who can help tell those stories, and um, and so we're trying to do that, um, as well as finding those, those content pieces, but we need to have distribution and we don't have a large consumer audience. By default. It's decent size 50, 60,000, but it's nothing compared to some of the other bigger platforms, so, um. So what we're trying to do is work with different partners, and one of those partners is Boulder, um, because we feel that the technology that they bring will help us build a larger traveler audience, uh, and give us a way to distribute that content more efficiently and effectively for our members.

Speaker 2: 2:15:13

Yeah, that's fantastic and obviously I love the partnership and I think you know so highly of ATTA as an organization and there's clearly so much, there's so much growth potential for ATTA still right. And it's like, obviously you know that you've been in the business a long time, clearly, and you know meeting people like Eric and you kind of all of a sudden have this like wait a second, there's something here that we can leverage and it's all about partnerships, especially when it comes to technology, as we all know, because that's not often a core strength for many companies. Your core strength, for sure, is bringing this amazing global community together, myself included and the people that are just totally wrapped with being here and the human connection and so but you obviously want to extend that by technology. So so, eric, how do you see this playing out, working with jason and the team? What is kind of your initial vision for how boulder technology can partner with atta?

Speaker 9: 2:16:01

yeah. So in order to kind of dive into that, where I think it's important to see what currently, as you said, technology like the adventure businesses. They are not necessarily tech savvy, right.

Speaker 2: 2:16:14

Understatement for sure, but yeah, exactly.

Speaker 9: 2:16:16

But what? The big strength that I see, even from my experience as a mountain guide, is that you're passionate about what you do right. So you have a real capability and you know what you're doing in the field. And it might not be as good at the business side, the marketing side, because most of the businesses are small and they might be focused on their thing right. So by being able to leverage a more collaborative environment for technology, you will be able to work across the value chain together. And this is where we see, by creating kind of like what we call an operating system that's human-centered right, this is allowed for each human which is a traveler, right, but also an employee and a guide to start working together and kind of create, deepen their relationships through the technology, which is not what the traditional technology model allows right because it's not collaborative well.

Speaker 2: 2:17:23

So tell us who else you're working with now and in what kind of capacity to help, kind of share with our listeners the vision for what you're going to be able to create together.

Speaker 9: 2:17:32

Yeah, maybe I can use an example from another industry. Sure, yeah, so it's like we did this first test case with a sport club near our in Stavanger or Bergen in Norway, on the West coast.

Speaker 2: 2:17:46

Yeah, One of the most beautiful parts of Norway, as I understand Bergen yes, bergen is good.

Speaker 9: 2:17:50

Stavanger is better, my hometown beautiful parts of Norway as.

Speaker 9: 2:17:53

I understand Bergen. Yes, bergen is good, yeah, stavanger is better. So so what we? What we did there was that we kind of had this 16 year old handball team which has a indoor stadium, 100 seats, right, but problem from all the sport clubs in the area is that they never fill the seats, right. So this these guys had 20 seats filled at the maximum when they had a match and that's like their mother brother, right. Nobody paid for a ticket.

Speaker 9: 2:18:25

So we kind of got the team together on a wednesday evening, created a poster using the our system where we built in the ticket purchase and we gave them the link to distribute, right, and then they started distributing on the Wednesday evening. On Thursday, around four o'clock, they had sold 120 tickets. So we were like, oh shit, what's going on here, right? And then friday, they had sold 200 tickets and remember, the stadium only takes 100 as 100 seats and they hadn't thought about setting a limit on the ticket sales, because we didn't think about that either. So coming, uh, saturday morning and match day, so there's only three days they had sold 100, 240 tickets and the stadium was completely overfilled. So that was like for them having 600 dollars in revenue instead of zero, it was like complete. It blew our minds and it also blew their minds, right.

Speaker 11: 2:19:39

Yeah.

Speaker 9: 2:19:39

So we had this and we have followed up with that beyond that and what we see is we're able to. When people get agency and they can collaborate and they can do direct outreach, you're able to really activate the people that care about what they do. And I think if we bring this into adventure, you do go on an adventure travel because you care and setting the scene to collaborate across the traditional boundaries, having the customer work with the provider, work with the tour operators right Across the whole, even with the gear providers right. So now you can suddenly help tell each other's story and I think that kind of engagement will go up, but also the ability to earn more money. So not only will the experience be elevated, but also the value that's generated in the ecosystem. We see it already it's going up because the businesses can collaborate.

Speaker 2: 2:21:00

Yeah, so another question I have for you on this topic and I'm sure it's come up in many conversations is leveraging AI as part of this spotlight. We were just speaking to Wanderow and I know they did a webinar with you guys recently and certainly a lot of these tour operators are trying to wrap their head around that technology and the opportunity. And the reason I bring it up now is because when you highlight the fact that there's a lot of complexity to the whole customer journey and there's a lot of parts of our business that can be made more efficient and so Zoll was giving some great examples of how their technology is going to be able to deliver on that so I was just genuinely curious is there an element of AI that you are looking at in terms of improving that whole ecosystem, bringing partners together? How might you be leveraging that technology to improve the automation?

Speaker 9: 2:21:46

Yeah, so I'll explain how we look at AI, right, so we look at AI as a tool, so what it will do in our system. Every person and every company will have their own AI. It works only for them. So basically, this model allows for a pull system, but what it also allows for is for you to have much more power in the system, because now you can ask your AI, like, find something on Peru, right, and then it can either go in the network find it, which would be much more trusted content, or it can go on the internet and look it up for you and bring it into the conversation. So this is one aspect of it. But for a business, now all your customers will have their own AI that can help them sort what they need. But also you can work together because of the collaborative nature of this platform. The AIs work together, which is going to totally transform how you do it. So, basically, a business can focus on their vertical, what they do best, and then it can collaborate on the back office.

Speaker 2: 2:22:59

Well, and this is that world of agentic AI, which certainly was part of that conversation, depending on how people are enjoying this episode and the sequencing of the conversations. But I just wanted to call it because we got into a bit of detail of just explaining what agentic AI is to make sure that we brought everyone along on the journey. But you're absolutely right that this is where we are going to have agents that will assist all of us in our work, and so it's an exciting time, and I think one of the things that I wanted to to bring Jason back in on is is that is very much on this topic, given that you have partners like Eric or partners like Zal, and clearly more and more interest in this technology. I know you had Dan Flores from Satisfy Labs did a great AI session back in Panama. The people loved that session and so, when it comes to AI, how are you guys thinking about that with your business from a technology point of view and also in the programming?

Speaker 5: 2:23:54

Yeah, definitely we're um. Ai is, we think, is important for a lot of different reasons. Um, we think, um, you know you take away the negatives, because with any of these kinds of technologies there are negatives that come up out of them. Uh, but the positives we see out of it is especially for the number of the tour operators we have. The margins in this business are not very big and so anywhere we can help them find ways to use tools and resources that can help them screech out another half a percent or a percent or more. That's one way we want to be able to utilize it. Also help them understand how to leverage it in their business, from everything from promotion and sales lead generation to the back office needs that they have.

Speaker 5: 2:24:45

And ultimately, right now we know it's still very new.

Speaker 5: 2:24:49

It's moving much faster than past previous technologies where we've gone through a couple of these technology shifts in the past 20 years and we've seen how the members have been very interested we can provide to different solutions and providers and experts in the space and the more education we can provide.

Speaker 5: 2:25:21

And that's why we knew that, even though, yes, we're doing it at our events, we also feel we're also doing it through the hub, and so I'm doing these AI accelerators at least once a month, doing it through the hub, and so I'm doing these AI accelerators at least once a month, and if not more, I'm probably going to end up doing a few times a month because there's just so many questions and really what we try and do is get the ideas, to get the audience together, not only to hear from an expert, but to also hear from each other, and some of the real interesting examples or solutions that we've heard have been coming from those people, from the tour operators themselves, saying hey, well, how do you do this? Oh, I did it this way, and so we think, through that learning, they'll not only become more effective and efficient at taking advantage of technology, but also find collaboration with others in the space, their peers, as a way to help cut through the noise.

Speaker 2: 2:26:20

Yeah, well, you brought a couple of very important things there to the conversation, and one of them is this you have two apps you've got the Compass and you've got the Hub.

Speaker 2: 2:26:28

And what I want to do actually, while we have you here, jason, as part of this conversation, because obviously I'm thrilled that you're joining us for this, because obviously it's great to get your perspective in this event spotlight as well, because for many of the listeners that are not familiar with ATTA, I actually am very keen to hear the benefits from your point of view that many people wouldn't be familiar with.

Speaker 2: 2:26:47

So let's just kind of, if you wouldn't mind, do a bit of an overview together, because you're hitting on things that I've only just become familiar with the AI accelerators. I'm like this is fantastic, and the fact that you're actually starting to produce more of those. It also tells you that's what's needed. So that's another reason why people listening to this should join ATTA, become part of the community, attend events and so forth, but give a little overview of the landscape for ATTA, the apps, the websites and some of the tools that you guys offer to the ATTA community, because some people may just be looking at this. As they become a member. They come to an event, but there's so much more to what you guys offer, right.

Speaker 5: 2:27:24

Right. So we obviously were a member organization to start. That's where we started in the beginning. We quickly moved to an annual. That's where we started in the in the beginning. Um, we quickly moved to an annual event, which we found super, very successful. Um, because these, this audience, loves to be together. You know, they love people, they love the energy and you know that's why, you know, with Boulder, what we really like is that is taking that human centered approach, um and so.

Speaker 5: 2:27:50

So we have always wanted to focus on that human-centered collaboration, and the events provide the opportunity for that to happen. During the event. We have an event-specific app that we use, which is called Compass, and the idea is to help facilitate what the agenda is and how do you find people who are at the event, how do you schedule meeting, et cetera. So it has a very specific role and a job, and what we've always tried to do as ATTA is find the right tool for the right need. Sometimes it might feel like we have a few too many different tools, but what we're trying to do is make sure we have the best one for that particular need, the best one for for that particular need, um. So so, beyond the events back.

Speaker 5: 2:28:37

Going back to membership, is we have a new community hub. Um, it's built on a community platform and the idea is that we um uh provide opportunities for for that B2B engagement and interaction, right? Um? Uh, the education that the members might need, the ability to, for them to engage with each other, for them to post exciting stories or things of interest that other people in the industry might be interested in. That space provides that.

Speaker 5: 2:29:06

But we are in our partnership with Boulder. What we're leveraging is our as I mentioned before traveler-facing site, which is adventuretravel, and there we feel it needs a different tool, it needs a different solution to create that community and engagement. And that's where the Boulder platform expands upon. Other community platforms we have, but it includes the traveler. Other community platforms we have, but it includes the traveler. And in our world, what I see is even our tour operators and destinations everyone that's at this conference they're providing a particular service, or for their own business or for someone else or for a destination, but they're all travelers At the end of the day, they're all travelers. They're in this business because they love to travel, they love adventure travel, and the Boulder platform provides an opportunity to get down to that individual level and think of everyone as a traveler, in addition to having the opportunity to bring that together on a business level business to business level as well.

Speaker 2: 2:30:14

Well, the fact that you are starting to engage more travel technology providers whether obviously Eric from Boulder or Zal from Wanderow, who had heard about this from another colleague and has come to the first event and just loving it, just like anyone who comes to ATK for the first time just falls in love with the community and the tribe and they found their people, all the same expressions that I kind of stumbled across as well I guess we all feel the same way and I'm sure Eric, because he's a guide, so he's got that background no-transcript to reach out to you. So while I have you here, I was like a perfect opportune time to you know, let our global listeners know how they can partner with you, because I'm sure there's some great travel technology companies out there that don't even realize this is an opportunity that you could partner with.

Speaker 5: 2:31:15

Definitely. I think there's two entry points. One is to you know when it's not event season or when there's not an event nearby. Definitely join we. You know the industry wants to see that tech providers, tech companies, are committing to the industry by joining and becoming a part of supporting the industry, and so that's the first place to start From there. Typically, they reach out to me and I have a conversation with them, learn a little bit more about the business and get a feel for are they a fit for the industry and for the companies? There's often a lot of times I'm giving them insight on hey, this is how you might think about approaching this industry, because this is how they think. This is what they're looking for. Here are the nuances that they want to know about, here are the things they don't like to hear, and so we usually start there and then we'll look at an opportunity to. Well, now, through our new hub, we have the opportunity to do these accelerators, so it provides an opportunity to do that.

Speaker 5: 2:32:30

Going back to the events, obviously you come to the event, get to know the people. There's nothing better in ATTA than to get together with this group. It was, is what sold me. I was a consultant for the first few years with ATTA and working with Shannon. I came to the first summit. I was sold. I was like I'm going to work for you someday. He said, okay, when I have enough money, so that there's nothing better than getting together with this group. I mean, there's no clicks, it's all about conversations. There's the competitive doors, curtains come down. People are just willing to collaborate and discuss and talk about their challenges and needs and and and interests and um and so by coming to the event and then potentially partnering and sponsoring at the event to get even more brand exposure during the event, um, but again, usually when somebody says, hey, I want to learn more about what I do at tech, they say go talk to Jason. So, um, so that can do that.

Speaker 2: 2:33:33

And so if people do want to reach out to you as the best way, uh, linkedin, website, email, what?

Speaker 5: 2:33:38

it could be linked uh, linkedin, definitely Um, or uh, by email. Just Jason at adventure travelbiz. Um, I'm happy to follow up on email regularly, um so um, but LinkedIn works as well, and then, if you join, you can find me in the hub.

Speaker 2: 2:33:54

Fantastic. Thank you, jason. Thanks for the opportunity to be here to partner with you guys. Obviously wonderful working with you and Shannon Gabby and the whole team. Every time I meet someone else from ATTA, I'm just delighted because it's just like there's just such a strong kinship amongst your team and so, yeah, thank you again sincerely for the opportunity to collaborate together.

Speaker 5: 2:34:10

Definitely, and thank you, dan, for being with us. We've been really excited about the stories we're hearing from the podcasts that you're doing so amazing, Thank you.

Speaker 2: 2:34:18

Well, let's bring Eric back on that exact note, because this is exactly the types of conversations we want to be having, where you've got someone that is smart, strategic, understands where the industry is headed and is here at the event. So I want to finish off, eric, by hearing what your vision is for this partnership with ATTA, and I'm sure Jason wants to know a timeline When's this going to go live? So, are we going to get this live in 2025? But tell us a little bit more about the vision and what's ahead. And then I want to finish off, too, to make sure people know where to connect with you.

Speaker 9: 2:34:47

Yeah, so I think that what we will bring into the adventuretravel is the ability to collaborate across the whole value chain, right? So I think that is going to be the big thing. And you know, unleash synergies of collaboration using AI, so I think that this is kind of create a richer experience. And there is another thing that you didn't touch on, but you were asking about all the great stuff that ATTA is doing, and they have a lot of content, a lot of content that is currently not reaching the smallest businesses. I think this is one of the big opportunities with Adventure Travel and Agentic AI A lot of content that is currently not reaching the smallest businesses. I think this is one of the big opportunities with Adventure Travel and Agentic AI.

Speaker 9: 2:35:55

If we embed this into the agent of the businesses so that they can actually get access to the collective knowledge of the industry when they're operating their business. Now their operating performance can go up. How many percent? I think it's going to be more than percent, so I think it's going to be like maybe two or three times Exciting. So there is still a big, big upside for the adventure industry, and especially when we move into regenerative practices.

Speaker 2: 2:36:13

Yeah, that's fantastic. And then even when we heard the opening today with EF who's part of this podcast as well talking about this being an $896 billion industry, it just shows you that it's fragmented. It's behind on technology. There's so much room for innovation. So, given that that is clearly the focus with Boulder Technology and the work you're doing, eric, how can the listeners also connect with you, find out more about what you're working on and look to partner with you?

Speaker 9: 2:36:39

They can reach out directly to me on my email, which is eric at boulderno, or you can go to boulderspacecom and just connect. Sign up, create your own account. It's free.

Speaker 2: 2:36:53

Fantastic. Well, this lived up to the hype, but I'm keen to see what happens next, because obviously so many people are keen for us to meet. So I look forward to keep in touch with you, eric, and thanks again, jason, for being part of this. But I certainly want to make sure that people reach out and connect with you both, and I look forward to keeping in touch. Thanks again, eric, great to meet you.

Speaker 9: 2:37:09

And thanks for having me. It was great and I'm now going to look forward to the next episode Awesome.

Speaker 2: 2:37:17

Thanks a lot, eric. Safe travels home man.

Speaker 9: 2:37:18

Thanks, bye.

Speaker 2: 2:37:21

I now have the pleasure to introduce you to someone who is a very good friend of mine, someone I've actually sat on the board with a tour operator and someone that I've gotten to know really well over the last couple of years. Her name is Casey Hanisco and she actually was a very core part of ATTA for many years. She's a coaching consultant. You can find out more information about her at caseyhaniscocom. That's K-A-C-A-S-E-Y and then Hanisco is H-A-N-I-S-K-O.

Speaker 2: 2:37:47

And the other thing I wanted to highlight just before I bring Casey into the conversation is that in the magazine here for this conference, which we're having this conversation on the end of day two so we've got lots to reflect on from the event but the magazine is called Adventure On.

Speaker 2: 2:38:03

And when I was reading the publication, which has this amazing quote from Casey and I'm just going to read it here because it actually exemplifies what my feeling was coming to my very first ATTA, since this is only my second this is Casey's line. For over 20 years ATTA has lit the way for responsible travel, where purpose meets partnership and vision turns into action. As the former ATTA president and now an executive coach to travel businesses and owners, I tell my clients show up to an ATTA event and you won't just find your people, you'll find the future of your business, and I love that because actually, what I found is that I found my tribe, and that's, I guess, the most common expression that people have heard over the course of this interview. But, casey, welcome to Travel Trends. Thanks so much for joining us for this discussion.

Speaker 10: 2:38:49

Thanks for having me here.

Speaker 2: 2:38:50

Of course. So tell everyone a bit more about you and what your background is and what you're doing now. But let's start with a bit of your background.

Speaker 10: 2:38:57

Well, probably the best part of my background is that I started to travel in the space voyage industry I don't even know if Dan knows this. So I started off at Zagram Expeditions. They had just started a space voyage division, and so I was there. And I was at Zagram for about 14 years, not just in space. It was moved into marketing and sales and then after that I went to the Adventure Travel Trade Association for about 10 years.

Speaker 2: 2:39:21

And so for you, obviously, this organization, these events, this is the world that you've known for many, many years.

Speaker 10: 2:39:28

Oh yeah, I mean I'll date myself, but yes, let's just say over 25 years.

Speaker 2: 2:39:33

Amazing. Well, the first day when I arrived at the hotel, I saw Casey right away. I was delighted to see her, so I gave her a big hug and then we chatted for a bit and clearly everyone knows who you are. And then the next day we were chatting and people are coming up to you. So it's great to see someone that has the legacy you have in this industry but also being available now as a coach and a consultant to so many different businesses. And I think that having someone with your great expertise and, you know, I guess, a highly skilled experience, because there's so much that you know and this is why I was asking Casey, I was so intrigued to learn more about her business the other day when we were having a little catch up, because I'm just so intrigued to understand how it all works the coaching side. So tell everyone about what you're up to now and how your coaching business works.

Speaker 10: 2:40:15

So I work with a lot of women tour operators in particular. There's so many entering the space. Over the last I don't know 10, 15 years, when I started off in the industry, there weren't as many and, as many of you know, there's a lot of women-focused traveler business and women-focused products. But I also I mean I work with purpose-driven leaders. It's really the small, medium-size tour operators or travel advisors and I'm helping them build great businesses and really focusing on their strategy, on doing forecasting or leading great teams or, frankly, sometimes just being able to have a life and live their values personally and professionally. So it's all you know balance, balance and balance.

Speaker 2: 2:41:02

Well, I just didn't realize, before coming to ATTA in Panama and being here again for the second event in Denver, just how many small operators are out there, and I've spoken to a few that have been a part of the podcast and you know they are distributed all for the second event in Denver just how many small operators are out there, and I've spoken to a few that have been a part of the podcast and you know they are distributed all over the world and they run all these incredibly niche small operations, and a lot of them are somewhat isolated and maybe not. They weren't experienced in the travel industry before starting this business, and so it's opened my eyes to the importance of someone like you for them to be able to work with. So give us a little bit of an overview of the types of clients that you tend to collaborate with as a result of, you know, being here at ATTA and some of the partnerships you have.

Speaker 10: 2:41:47

Yeah, that's a great question. So there's so many solo entrepreneurs who are working with consultants and you know, or maybe have like a part-time person on their teams. And then I also work with people who have 50 to a hundred people as part of their teams and they're just they're looking for some support for their management teams or executives that need people leadership skills. So I work with them. And then I also work with the Women Travel Leaders Organization and I do elite group coaching with them and I have a program that's a leading people program, which is for people who need people leadership training and that's a nine-week program.

Speaker 2: 2:42:26

So businesses of various sizes- yeah, so you mentioned a couple of things there and I'm keen to just dive into that a bit further. In terms of what they're typically looking for and I realize this sounds like it's probably going to be quite a rate it really is going to depend on the stage of their business and what they're struggling with. But what are some of the more common things that people are coming to you for? Is it improving their operations and building out itineraries and their guides? Is it management and being able to, or is it finding? What are the areas that you typically see that people, when they know the time they need to reach out for help? What are the specific areas they need assistance with?

Speaker 10: 2:43:01

Well, often a question I'll ask is do you have a strategic plan? And the answer will be no. And then I'll say do you do any forecasting? The answer will be no.

Speaker 10: 2:43:12

And then they'll say no, this is why I need to work with you. So you know, they just don't have the structure in place. So it's usually a passion driven started business there. You know, they've sort of got the business running, they're busy and they just haven't put the structure in place to either grow, if they want to grow, or sort of maintain where they're at. And it's that sort of purposeful structure and building is something that they often need the support for and that can be where sometimes the consulting comes in, and what types of organizations?

Speaker 2: 2:43:43

are they Mainly tour operators?

Speaker 10: 2:43:46

I work with nonprofits as well. I've worked with travel advisors. I've worked with, also, people who want to get into the travel industry, so people who are coming from the outside and so either are starting a business or they want to work for travel businesses. So when you're a coach, it's often it's about people finding the answers within, and so you don't necessarily need to be just working within one industry, right, and then where have you gotten to now with you know you are.

Speaker 2: 2:44:15

I know you've got two young kids as well, or they're you know they're making their way to through high school and into college. Tell everyone a little bit about where you're based and then kind of where your practice is today, because I know you do work with a couple of different organizations and this is where, like you're incredibly well-connected and I'm partly asking in terms of understanding I was saying the case the other day I've got so many companies that would be interested in utilizing your services. Would you actually be interested in introductions or are you just way too busy? And you said to me I'm like no, you're open to different opportunities. So I want to make sure I highlight that for all of our global listeners. So tell us a little bit about where you're based and some of the projects you are interested in taking on.

Speaker 10: 2:44:56

Okay, well, so I'm based in Seattle, washington. I'm not sure if it's relevant because I actually work with people across the globe, but that is where I am, and so I do generally work on the Pacific time zone, but I'm flexible. I'm on the nonprofit board for Rise Travel Institute, a wonderful organization that everyone should check out. I also, like I mentioned earlier, the Leading People program. If there's companies that are looking for training for their managers in their organizations, that's something to reach out to me about.

Speaker 2: 2:45:35

Given the fact you were the president of ATTA for a decade and we're here again together at this event. I haven't had a chance to attend a lot of the sessions myself because obviously I've been busy importantly doing the podcasting. But tell me, from your perspective, what have some of the highlights this year from the sessions or some of the people you've met? What have been some of the standouts from ATTA, denver, elevate 2025?

Speaker 10: 2:45:58

Well, it's been a great group of people and obviously, as you said, I know a lot of people in the industry. So every few minutes I'm seeing somebody I wanted to catch up with, and being in North America is nice from that perspective. A lot of my clients are here from a coaching perspective and I think we're all really appreciating the content that's really focusing on recognizing that there's a lot of uncertainty and change happening in the industry right now because of the economic and political environment. So, you know, looking at the trends, there's been some good market sizing research that's come out. I think data is always good for people to have just when they're doing some of their planning and considering what kind of growth patterns might be out there. So that's been nice and also there's been some good. Obviously I love leadership and there's been some good sessions on that that. I think people really need to spend some time thinking with some introspection about where they're at.

Speaker 2: 2:46:59

Yeah, that's great. Obviously, you have that perspective from knowing many people here and having the background with the organization, and that's one of the things I wanted to ask you as well in terms of some of the bigger trends that are happening in our space, and you're based in the US. You know, I'm Canadian, you're West Coast and I'm somewhat East Coast, and I'm genuinely curious to know some of the trends that you're paying attention to in travel for 2025 as it relates to your coaching, clients or the adventure travel space. What are some of the things that you're paying attention to or kind of preparing yourself for, to help and engage clients with?

Speaker 10: 2:47:34

Yeah Well, I think the wellness one is definitely one that is there, and I think it's been there for a while. Maybe I'm a little bit jaded. I've been in the industry for a long time, so sometimes these reports feel like okay, we know that, we've heard these trends, but it's always good to see if things are shifting a little bit.

Speaker 2: 2:48:14

No-transcript it certainly was discussed heavily in Panama and I know one of the big reasons is the electric bikes.

Speaker 3: 2:48:21

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:48:21

Now, all of a sudden, people who wouldn't take a cycling trip are are going to, or you, you can explore farther field because you know, because you can travel farther distances. But so yeah, I didn't realize that wasn't featured, but I know that's actually, and all the companies are here offer cycling and walking like cycling and hiking trips.

Speaker 2: 2:48:39

That's like the two big growth areas. Now, in terms of the ways that you collaborate with different companies, I would love to highlight that as well, because I've certainly, in the time we've, got to know each other and even being here together at ATTA, I've certainly grown my understanding of the different services that you offer to clients, especially some of the packages you put together, which I you know there's got to be so many companies out there that could really benefit from that. So tell everyone if you wouldn't mind about some of the services you offer and some of the clients that might be interested in reaching out to you.

Speaker 10: 2:49:10

Yeah, so I work one-on-one with clients, and so anybody who just really wants that personal experience, wants a comfortable sort of confidant and somebody that can give them the opportunity to gain a new perspective on their business, that's definitely somebody that would be I would love to talk to and work with.

Speaker 10: 2:49:31

If they're feeling stuck or feeling overwhelmed, that's a sign usually that you need a coach. Um, so that happens, um, and then I also do group coaching. I do that through women travel leaders. Um, so if anybody is a woman leader in the industry, they should maybe look at women travel leaders. And then also I have a that leadership program that I do, and so I'm going to be running one of those in the fall. So anybody should reach out if they either want to do that program privately for their company, because they want to run that, or if they want to send a leader or two to the program that I'm running in the fall. It could be a great opportunity for some in-depth education around how to best be people leader, and that's difficult conversations, it's really understanding yourself, it's learning how to give feedback, running good meetings all the things you don't really learn how to do that. People throw you into people management roles, and so it's a great opportunity to educate your team.

Speaker 2: 2:50:32

That's great. I know I mentioned the website at the very beginning, but I know you're also active on LinkedIn, so let's make sure all of our listeners can find the ways to reach out and connect with you. So what are all the best ways to do that, casey?

Speaker 10: 2:50:42

Oh, I'm glad you brought that up, because I do have a newsletter that I put out on LinkedIn that's called Leading Naturally. I love to write and so I really like to connect leadership principles to nature. So I can be found on LinkedIn just search for Casey Hinesco, I don't think there's too many of us. And also, if you are interested, subscribe to my newsletter, because it you know, it's a little bit of a monthly inspiration. I may start putting it out more frequently. Or you can connect with me on my website. You can just let me know there. Fill out the contact form.

Speaker 2: 2:51:15

That's terrific. Now, thanks, casey. I was really looking forward to seeing you here. Obviously, we'll catch up again very soon, but I wanted our global listeners to get to know you, because I think very highly of you and I see the difference you've made to organizations that you've worked with, and so when I said to Casey she wasn't sure about joining, I'm like you have to join, you've got to join, but you've got to be a part of the podcast. You've got an amazing story to tell and also a thriving business that people need to know about, so I value our friendship. I'm glad things are going so well for you and it's great to see you again here, and I look forward to keeping in touch.

Speaker 10: 2:51:45

Thanks Dan.

Speaker 2: 2:51:48

I now have the privilege to sit down and speak to a fellow Canadian. His name is Andy Brown and he is the communications manager at Tourism Golden. And the first thing I'm sure many of our listeners are like where is Golden? And it is one of the most beautiful parts of British Columbia, and so I'm thrilled to have Andy join us. Welcome to the show, andy. Yeah, thanks. It's nice to be here Now. Andy has been to ATTA four times.

Speaker 2: 2:52:10

Yes correct, You're familiar with this organization, but interestingly, Andy is actually from Ontario, which is the most populous province in Canada, and many people when you do speak to them that are from BC. A lot of people did move out from Ontario and so I say to Andy, you've picked the good life because it is like, as it gets referred to, the West Coast is the best coast. But tell us, Andy, a little bit about your role at Tourism Golden and also for our global listeners.

Speaker 13: 2:52:38

Help them understand where is Golden BC? All right.

Speaker 13: 2:52:43

I mean yeah, we'll see if I can. Don't take up all of your time with this one. My role with Tourism Golden. I'm the communications manager. In a small organization like ours. It's a title and many hats A lot of media, pr work, communication with our stakeholders, whether it's activity providers, accommodators, interacting with people with the town as well. Don't want to get too much into the weeds about it. And then for Golden.

Speaker 13: 2:53:08

For those of you that don't know where it is, we are actually on the east side of British Columbia, so those thinking next to the ocean, great, that's not us. Closest international airport is actually Calgary, and so it's an easy two and a half hour drive. From Calgary Drive through a couple of national parks. People may have heard of Banff National Park. It tends to ring a few bells, and then you head through Yoho National Park and you get to Calgary, so pretty easy. Once you get on the Trans-Canada Highway, you end up in Golden. And yeah, it's just a beautiful part of the country, located between the Rockies and Purcells, or you can call them Columbia Mountains.

Speaker 2: 2:53:54

And tell us what's the population of Golden?

Speaker 13: 2:53:56

The population of the town itself is 4,000 people, but in the larger area that you call Golden, its home is. We call it Area A and it's about 8,000 people total.

Speaker 2: 2:54:09

And then in terms of travelers, each year coming to Golden, what does that number look like? People total. And then in terms of travelers each year coming to Golden.

Speaker 13: 2:54:14

What does that number look like? It depends on how you define travelers, but we'll call like overnight visitors, people that are going to stay about one night. At least one night is about 620, 650,000.

Speaker 2: 2:54:25

Wow, and that's why I wanted to ask because, like when you think about a small community like Golden living in this beautiful part of the country and, as you rightly highlighted, you're nestled in the mountains and you are closer to Calgary because I was telling Andy that my younger brother, who's an avid snowboarder, lived in Golden and this is where, for those of you who know British Columbia and know that part of the world, you know how stunningly beautiful it is and that's why I was saying I'm envious of Andy being able to live somewhere so extraordinary like that and that's why I was saying I'm envious of Andy being able to live somewhere so extraordinary like that and it's a beautiful part of our country. But I want to talk a little bit more about your role and what brings you here to ATTA. So I know you're doing communications as a small organization, but what are some of the reasons that you have been coming back to ATTA year after year, to these Elevate events?

Speaker 13: 2:55:09

I mean it's really in the title of adventure events. I mean it's really in the title of adventure Golden Bean Adventure Destination outdoor adventure is really where we thrive and the ATTA leans into that obviously just by the name of the title. And Adventure Elevate has been a really good place specifically, specifically for us not just to collaborate and network with people, but really the media that they bring in has been really good and opportunities to talk to different media that share the same passion for the outdoors and work within that space, and it's just been a really fun time with the networking events and getting to know people and ultimately bringing several of them into Golden to show them where I live, yeah Well.

Speaker 2: 2:56:01

Andy has a cool. I know people are not seeing the video of this, but he's got a really cool flannel shirt on which is like you're totally part of the tribe. You're like that's mountain wear and very appropriate for this event. That's one of the things I love about the adventure. Travel is like I'm just wearing my travel trends t-shirt and that is like that is that is well-dressed at this event.

Speaker 13: 2:56:20

Yeah, no, it's a packing, for this is easy. I know I've got to support the Canadian tuxedo. I don't bring full flannel necessary or full flannel denim necessarily.

Speaker 2: 2:56:31

But I'm so glad you mentioned that, so before people have to Google it themselves, what is the Canadian tuxedo?

Speaker 13: 2:56:37

Jeans on jeans on jeans. Denim from head to toe. Yeah, jeans with a jean jacket, and if you can get the jean shirt underneath, it's bonus points.

Speaker 2: 2:56:46

This is, like you know, brian Adams in his prime. This is like, yeah, denim jacket, denim pants, the Canadian tuxedo I think that's what I wore to my prom and it is a uniquely Canadian outfit. So, given that you're here back in Denver this year, obviously it moves around. But this event, what brought you specifically this year? Obviously, you love the vibe about ATTA. I totally get that. We're sitting here together at kind at the end of the first day. What were some specific things that interested you about being here this year and what have been some of the highlights so far?

Speaker 13: 2:57:20

I mean, coming here is to this one specifically again, to not trying to repeat myself, but the media that come to it is really what brings me here. A few I've worked with in the past and it's great to see all the faces again that I've worked with and be able to collaborate with. I mean I'd be lying if I said it wasn't because of the ease of transport, and the direct flight into Denver definitely made it a little more appealing to to come down. But no, really it's. Regardless of of where it would be and so long as there isn't a conflict in the schedule, an ETTA event is really close to the high high on the list of of things to do now after going to so many of them.

Speaker 2: 2:58:12

Are you staying on for the festival on Saturday?

Speaker 13: 2:58:15

I really wish I could stay for the whole thing. I'll be here for the start of it, but work does call and I've got to be back. I got to be back for Sunday at the latest and because I've got media coming in and I've got to host them.

Speaker 2: 2:58:29

So fair enough, but I think that's one of the things we haven't actually spoke about on this podcast yet with any of our guests. But I actually changed my flights from flying back on Saturday to Sunday because not only Shannon was keen for me to be there for the festival, but a number of my friends and colleagues who are here as well, like you've got to stay for the music festival, and I know that's one of the big reasons they are hosting the event here in Denver. So they tie into this outdoor music festival and everyone's been telling me today how much, how much they're looking forward to how awesome it's going to be. But it also just highlights the the fact that, uh, this community, they also like to celebrate together.

Speaker 13: 2:59:01

Yeah, you make friends really quickly here.

Speaker 13: 2:59:03

It's uh, every event that I've been to within the first call it networking, uh opportunity. But really it's uh, just uh it networking opportunity. But really it's just, you know time to meet up and you see one familiar face and they introduce you to somebody else and next thing you know you're having multiple different conversations and it leads to oh, you got to talk to this person and talk to that person. The networking side of it, or the just the, the events that are held on a really informal, like you were saying, you don't have to get dressed up or anything like that and it's a bunch of friends really that uh end up uh hanging out and uh, sometimes the nights go a little later than you want and uh, it's fine, that's that's the way it should be?

Speaker 2: 2:59:42

Yeah, totally. And then for you guys, denver. But to bring it back to Golden and where you're based, because I want to make sure that our listeners, especially those that are not necessarily as familiar with Canada and certainly not with just that part of the world, some of the other interesting things about Golden. That would be even some things, many things. I don't know about Golden. So what are some of the key attributes that people should consider traveling to Golden?

Speaker 13: 3:00:13

Well, that's a great. Another loaded question that I could go on for hours about Big one. You know not as many people are. We'll stay away from the snow season. I'll dip into that a little bit afterwards. But Golden is in the middle of six national parks, so if you wanted to, less than a two hour drive you can get to six different national parks, and people may have heard of that one called Banff. There's Jasper, that's a couple hours away. We got Kootenay, yoho, the Canadian Glacier National Park and Mount Revelstoke. So the hiking and wildlife viewing and all the other opportunities that come with that is unbelievable. And then you know adrenaline, depending on how you're looking at it downhill, mountain biking, whitewater rafting, tandem paragliding, skydiving, amazing golf course. You know anything that doesn't involve an ocean is pretty much going on there. But there are lakes, there are lakes yes.

Speaker 13: 3:01:10

They might be a little chillier than some people want, but it's very refreshing after a nice hike up to an Alpine Lake to to dip in. And then you hit the winter and uh, you've got kicking horse mountain resort, which is uh still, in my opinion, one of the most underrated uh ski resorts in North America, for sure. Uh, especially if you're you're into to challenging terrain, there's nothing that matches it. I don't care what anyone says. You're into challenging terrain? There's nothing that matches it, I don't care what anyone says. You know how to ski or snowboard at Kicking Horse. You're going to go anywhere and it's going to seem tame and the snow is amazing. And then backcountry skiing, backcountry lodges, snowmobiling, cross-country skiing I mean the list, snowmobiling, the list goes on.

Speaker 2: 3:01:49

It's just if you like being outdoors, it's the place to be, are, you know, um uh heli only, and there's just like there's so many gems within uh that region, within Golden, that people can explore, but and you're right, it is underrated, and so many um there's. There's more resorts being built, more lifts being built, and some of these uh ski resorts are really uh world-class and um and nestled in this, you know, beautifully pristine part of uh of the country. But if people want to find out more information about um uh golden and to be able to connect with you uh, where should they go, andy Uh, to learn more?

Speaker 13: 3:02:40

about golden uh tourism goldencom best place to go.

Speaker 2: 3:02:46

Uh wwwtourismgoldencom.

Speaker 13: 3:02:50

I don't think you need the WW anymore, but no, I mean, we'll bring it back.

Speaker 2: 3:02:54

Sure, it's not tourismgoldenai.

Speaker 13: 3:02:58

I'm sure eventually one day there will be.

Speaker 2: 3:03:01

Or you just ask your AI agent.

Speaker 13: 3:03:03

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 3:03:03

Skip the website altogether.

Speaker 13: 3:03:05

Tell me about Golden, british Columbia, and it'll take you to our website. There's that, and then to get in touch with me directly media at tourismgoldencom. Happy for anyone to reach out and to give more information.

Speaker 2: 3:03:18

Awesome, it's great to meet you, Andy, Awesome to have a fellow Canadian as part of this, and the fact that we've all traveled here to be at ATTA, despite all of the complexities that are happening in our world the geopolitical factors, because not many Canadians are making that journey, but I'm I'm glad you have and I'm obviously thrilled to be here as well. And, uh, you know, a big reason for that is certainly supporting this community, which clearly you're a key part of. So I look forward to keeping in touch with you and hopefully at some point I'll see you when I come out to golden.

Speaker 13: 3:03:46

I mean we'd love to have you come on out and uh happy to show you around the mountain in the winter too. Sounds great. We can record a podcast there. Yeah, 15 minute gondola ride up can do a podcast between laps.

Speaker 2: 3:03:58

I look forward to it. Awesome, andy. Well, enjoy the rest of your time here and, yeah, I look forward to keeping in touch with you, man. Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. I now have the pleasure to speak to Julia Tregaskas-Allen, who is the Director of Tracks and Trails. She's come all the way across from the UK to be here for her very first ATTA event. I'm thrilled to have this opportunity to speak to you to learn more about your background and what you do. So welcome, julia, to our Travel Trends special episode.

Speaker 4: 3:04:25

Thank you Dan.

Speaker 2: 3:04:26

Now, the fact that you are a first-time ATTA, despite the fact you've actually had this company for 20 years, is really fascinating to me, and, as I was catching up with Julia, I was keen to have her as part of this podcast, because her story is quite unique. So let's actually start there. Tell us about Tracks and Trails. Tell us about this organization that is women-owned and the types of trips that you offer.

Speaker 4: 3:04:49

So Tracks and Trails was set up by myself and my co-director, Lindsay Cannon.

Speaker 4: 3:04:56

We set up initially as international mountain leaders and cross-country ski guides, literally to run a few trips. We were working for other companies and we realized, well, actually there's a lot more out there than the jobs that were available for us to guide. There's a lot more out there than the jobs that were available for us to guide. And I think once you realize there are so many trails, so many itineraries and places off the beaten track, we decided to set up our own small website, which was just four pages, it was like a leaflet, and this is 20 years ago. We bought the name, bought the website name and then it just grew. We went from one or two trips that we decided to guide and then realized that year on year you're building up a portfolio and then you realize you want dates on the website and it just built from there and now we have 75 tried and tested itineraries that we use regularly and a lot more in our heads that we've done over the years. So there's a big pool of information.

Speaker 2: 3:05:52

And now you operate in Scandinavia in the Alps. Is that correct? Tell us a little bit more about where you run these trips.

Speaker 4: 3:05:56

Yeah, so primarily it's the Alps and Scandinavia, but we do move a bit further afield to places like down to the Pyrenees and then down to Corsica or Mallorca, but primarily the Alps and Scandinavia.

Speaker 2: 3:06:14

And then tell us a bit about what an experience would look like on a tracks and trail. How many people are you traveling with? What would be the experience for a guest on one of your trips?

Speaker 4: 3:06:22

So our trips are. They're summer and winter, so the summer trips are hiking and trail running and in the winter is cross-country skiing and snowshoeing. We have small groups, so in the winter it's eight passengers and in the summer months it's 10. We really pride ourselves in quality experiences so we can use small hotels, small venues and have quite an authentic time out on the trail. We work with guides that will speak the local language, usually locally based, and by that we mean we want somebody that's going to understand the local culture, speak the language, be able to communicate between the guests and the experiences that they're having on the trail.

Speaker 2: 3:07:04

Interesting and then just tell us how you actually got into the space in the first place with your partner, because I think it's great that it's women owned. I was raised by a single mom, so that actually resonates with me. But one of the things that I had seen in your bio, one of the reasons I was keen to interview, is you offer women's-only travel, and Julia was just mentioning to me before we kicked off that that's actually a new development.

Speaker 4: 3:07:23

Absolutely yeah. So it's interesting. We've had the name, the company, the concept for 20 years and it didn't really strike with us that it's women's owned until more recently with maybe the Me Too movement. We're just understanding that actually what we have is quite an unusual experience with two women that have traveled around the world creating experiences. And yeah, we're pretty adventurous. You know, even my mom said to me the other week I was guiding in Corsica I have to go in Recce a few days before my group arrive and I'm looking at a new itinerary and she said there aren't perhaps many women that would just go out there and jump on the trail and hike up mountains on their own. And you realize what you've done over the last 20 years was perhaps something quite special and we want to share that with other travelers, but obviously other women, and that's something that we're doing now.

Speaker 2: 3:08:15

That's exciting. Now tell us what brings you to ATTA for the first time, which is why I'm sure our listeners are thinking about what it is you do, how long you've been doing it. It's amazing you haven't been to ATTA before. Of course, ATTA is primarily based in the US, but it is a global organization. Of course, Half the people here are actually international travelers, so, um, but I, so I take there's one aspect of it, that is, you know you're based in the UK, but, yeah, tell us how you decided to become part of, uh, ATTA and what brought you here this year.

Speaker 4: 3:08:41

So um, it's the name kept coming up and we kept seeing it and you get more and more interested in it. So we were guiding for um trekking companies that were part of ATTA. We also had customers that were on trips. We pride ourselves in quite a lot of bespoke and private itineraries and we had had some customers and said you would be such a good fit for ATTA because you offer bespoke it's small groups. We strongly promote low impact style holidays, so reducing the impact in the environment and using, you know, small providers and small hotels and small groups and you know sustainability arm is very important to us. So he said everything you have is what ATTA have and as a small, medium sized enterprise, we're trying to grow, grow organically in a sustainable way and it was mentioned again, atta will be a great way of doing that.

Speaker 2: 3:09:41

Yeah, for sure. I'm thrilled you're here, because I've only recently discovered this. I've known about ATTA for many years, but it was actually only my first event last year, in 2024. So I'm thrilled that we have such a great partnership with them, but for me, I'm still getting to understand all the benefits of being part of the community. So what are some of the things that attracted you to be here at Denver Elevate? What are some of the things? I know we're having this conversation on day one, so you've been to some of the sessions already, but, yeah, what are some of the things you're hoping to get out of being here this year?

Speaker 4: 3:10:09

Well, so far I've gleaned a lot, and perhaps a lot more than I imagined. I mean, yesterday we had the day of adventure, which was was a great way of just it's like a shakedown day. It's getting to meet people and you're starting to have conversations, and one one of the first conversations I had was, you know, with another British, actually an ambassador for ATTA, and he just said it's so great to see you here here, but it's gleaning this information from people that have already been here and his business has thrived from coming here. And then you realize, well, this, this could be us. You know, we might glean some really good contacts, but it's also support, and I think some of the lectures that are on and the one that I've just been to, straight away I'm gaining information in the travel industry that I didn't know, or it would be quite hard to find that information. So I feel, straight away, I've gained a lot already in 24 hours.

Speaker 2: 3:11:02

Oh, that's great. What did you do for your day of adventure yesterday?

Speaker 4: 3:11:05

So I did the sunrise tour oh cool. And then we were offered an opportunity to go to some of the museums and go around Denver afterwards.

Speaker 2: 3:11:15

I was very envious of that.

Speaker 4: 3:11:16

When a number of people were initially concerned because it was like a 415 departure. That was a bit hard after a long haul flight. However, coming from the uk, I was kind of awake at two, so right it worked to your advantage.

Speaker 2: 3:11:23

Yeah, I saw so many great pictures on social media yesterday of the people that actually went to red rocks for the sunrise it looks spectacular it was you, it was great.

Speaker 4: 3:11:31

And to answer your question about why Denver, we're looking to work with more American customers and obviously it just seemed appropriate to come here because we'd gained those contacts, but whilst you're here, there's just so many more than the US as well. So it's you know. I feel like we're really benefiting.

Speaker 2: 3:11:50

Yeah, I'm just thrilled to see, for Shannon and Gabby and the whole ATTA organization, such an amazing turnout in the US. Given all the other factors that are at play, you decided to travel here. So did I and many others, as I already mentioned. I mean, half of them are international that are here and they're from all over the world, and their commitment to this community is what is ensuring that they make the effort to come this year, despite other reservations they might have. So I know there'll be a ton of great benefits for you.

Speaker 2: 3:12:17

Let's talk a bit more about your plans with tracks and trails and where you guys are headed, because, yes, getting more Americans obviously will be ideal for building out your business. But what are some of the other developments? Obviously, the women only. I want to talk about that because clearly that is a big trend and solo female travelers is a big category for a lot of the group tours that are here, like Intrepid and G and Much Better Adventures, and there's so many large multi-day tour players and they're really focusing on solo female travelers.

Speaker 2: 3:12:46

And there's some fascinating stats there. One of the ones that I learned when I was at the Forbes Travel Guy Conference is that nearly half of solo female travelers are divorced or widowed, and I think it's almost a misunderstanding that a solo female traveler is someone in her 20s or 30s and so solo female travelers. But let's talk about women-only travel, because I'm really intrigued about how you've decided to focus on this and then, specifically to Julia, how you're working with women in destination to give them opportunities based on some of the new markets you'll be entering. So tell us about both sides of that please.

Speaker 4: 3:13:20

Okay, so the two trips that we're pioneering at the moment and obviously these are test pieces as well, but they're proving popular already it's hiking, maybe, some of the popular trails and, um, something like the tour de mont blanc. So you're hiking from chamonix, going through three countries. You go through switzerland, italy and france and you're joined. You'll have a female guide, you'll be staying, you can either have a twin room with another female or solo travelers often choose um single rooms, um, and we've been doing our own data on this as well, and the last um couple of years we've been gathering data to see who who is booking with us, when they book, what kind of room they book, and we have. We've also noticed that solo female travelers is on the up, and this is one of the reasons why I decided to put this into our itinerary. We've also got trail running holidays for women as well. So so, women only trail running.

Speaker 4: 3:14:13

And when I look back to my own background in sport and I came from a personal training triathlon background some of the first things I ever did were women only. I did the women's London run. Women's London run was a 10K and just women. I ran with my mom and it gave me the confidence, and then I was like, okay, I don't need to do that again, but it gave me the confidence to take the first steps. The same with triathlon. I did exactly the same on women's triathlon, and so I can see how it felt for me, you know, 25 years ago, when I was, you know, stepping into the industry.

Speaker 4: 3:14:43

That's fascinating, and tell us about some of the female leaders you're working with in some of these destinations example, on our trail running camp, we work with a fantastic team, and so you have female guide and, in fact, this september will actually be me running the trail running trail, running camp and running in chamonix doing the popular trails.

Speaker 4: 3:15:01

I mean, what better place to be? But chamonix can seem quite intimidating. It's the home of the utmp, the ultra trail de mont blanc and or chamonix marathon, and you think I'll never be able to run somewhere like that. But you can and everyone can. Um, and we've had people from beginner runners to very advanced and this is the thing you know. If you feel that you're joining a female group, maybe it just feels a bit. That step is easier to take the first time. You might go again and go in a mixed group, but you've gained that confidence. So the guides it will be a female guide. We also have physios who are going to be doing injury prevention sessions. We've got yoga teacher will be doing yoga class. We've also got nutrition and that'll be female related, so female specific. So we've got a great team and we've pulling really experienced people and it's not anybody. These are people that are living that life in the mountains and they have way more than just their specific talent and training. They're bringing a lot more to the table. So, yeah, great trips.

Speaker 2: 3:16:04

It's fascinating, and some of the big players are obviously starting to offer women-only trips companies like Intrepid, and there are a number of organizations that are also starting up that are very focused on female only travel companies like Greet Her but there's a whole host of really fascinating companies entering this space.

Speaker 2: 3:16:24

So it's obviously an exciting time for this style of travel and the fact that women are going to have many more opportunities to be able to travel in small groups and also find their tribe, which is obviously part of what we do when we're here. Right, we're part of this connected tribe. But certainly when you focus on a niche where it's not only female travel but also active travel, which I know like there's, the two fastest growing sectors are hiking and cycling, and so tell us a little bit more about that, because I think that's where what seems like a niche I know you're still a relatively small business has 18 members, but growing and a successful business. Tell us a little bit about the active lifestyle market specifically. You know people who are into, like ultra marathon running and you know, and certainly cross country skiing, like these really active adventures. Are you seeing that there's more people that are focused on their? You know their, their health and wellbeing, that want to take these style of trips. Is that an emerging growth category?

Speaker 4: 3:17:22

Yeah, certainly. I mean, I think, what we've seen. We've been running for 20 years and and over the years you get more and more groups where women will travel solo or they'll come with a friend and they're gleaning that support from being with like-minded people. You're also getting fit as well, but you see something, so it's more meaningful, and we're seeing that people prefer to spend their savings extra, so they prioritize on this experience, perhaps more than a new car or something that actually eventually you sell on, you know or you won't have, but you keep those experiences forever.

Speaker 2: 3:17:59

Yeah Well, I've certainly seen even the trend of running holidays people actually that are active runners. So clearly you're into a category that is growing and you're seeing that as you're building up these new itineraries. What's next for Tracks and Trails? I know you're here as you're building up these new itineraries. What's next for Tracks and Trails? I know you're here. We talked about the US market. We've talked about some of the new trips that you're offering. Tell us a little bit more about what's coming up next. And I want to make sure, too, that, julia, our listeners know how to follow up with you and learn more about Tracks and Trails.

Speaker 4: 3:18:27

Yeah, so we're here. As I said, it's our first year, but I feel that we're in a space that we want to be able to attract people from all around the world. As a small company, the main thing for us is that it's authentic. We have all these local providers and we want to share that. So Next, for us, it's really filling the trips that we have. We have such a wonderful schedule and we work in all these countries all tried and tested and we're now just here to sort of grow that little bit more. Up until now, it's been guides that it's organic, it's been organic growth. So this has just been a step to say actually, we're going to tell people more about what we do rather than just organic growth. That's exciting.

Speaker 2: 3:19:12

So let's make sure all of our listeners know how they can follow up and connect with you, because our global listeners. There may be opportunities for people that want to travel with you or even companies that actually want to partner with you, given so many travel agencies listen to our show. So, yeah, what would be the best ways to connect with you? Website and LinkedIn or social channels.

Speaker 4: 3:19:29

Yeah, so we're tracksandtrailscom. We've on Facebook, instagram and yeah, that's great, julia.

Speaker 2: 3:19:39

I mean it's a real pleasure to speak to you. I'm glad that we had this opportunity to record together. I'm thrilled that it is your first ATTA. I know the team listening to this will be very pleased and encouraged to hear that. All the reasons you came and the benefits you're already getting from being here, and I certainly hope that you'll be a long-time ATTA and get lots of benefit I'm sure that will absolutely happen, so I look forward to our paths crossing again.

Speaker 4: 3:19:59

Thank you very much.

Speaker 2: 3:20:02

I now have the pleasure to speak to Jorge Perez, who is the founder of Primitivo, as well as a number of other travel initiatives, and he is a real key figure in the ATTA space. He's known Shannon for nearly two decades now. He's been involved since 2007. He's based in Quito, ecuador, but he divides his time between Ecuador and Spain, and we've just had a chance to meet each other over the last few days and I really wanted to have Jorge as part of this conversation. So, jorge, welcome to Travel Trends.

Speaker 11: 3:20:29

Thank you, Dan. It's such a pleasure to be here with you and tell you a little bit what we do with Primitiva Travel in Spain and with Tierra del Volcán in Ecuador.

Speaker 2: 3:20:37

Fantastic and I know Shannon was so keen for us to meet. We connected in the lobby the first night and he's like you guys need to know each other. And, jorge, he started telling me about your background, which is so impressive, and I'd love to start there for our audience. So tell us a little bit about your journey in travel and tourism, and specifically starting out in Ecuador.

Speaker 11: 3:20:56

So I started tourism in Ecuador and I do believe that tourism could be a really good source of good.

Speaker 11: 3:21:02

You know, it brings people together and I feel blessed in working in an industry that you're with the persons in their best time in their life that is, vacations and because we consider that we want to offer you very unique experiences that enhance your vacations.

Speaker 11: 3:21:21

And the way I started is I decided that tourism was the perfect tool to make conservation profitable, and that's because we have these haciendas or ranches higher in the Andes, next to Cotopaxi volcano. Cotopaxi volcano is one of the highest active volcanoes in the planet and one of the most beautiful volcanoes in the planet and we want to find ways to preserve their surroundings, this ecosystem that is known as Paramos. Paramos is one of the biggest captures of CO2 in the planet, but at that time they were considered like kind of moorlands. So we decided that tourism was a way to bring people and know it, because you don't love what you don't know and understand it, and do it kind of adrenaline-fueled conservation through adventure and by creating opportunities to the local communities to get involved and have a way of making a living through tourism. Because we first we started working on conservation and after a while you realize that nature takes care of themselves, that it's people who are struggling, and then tourism was, for us, the tool to help develop this area.

Speaker 2: 3:22:37

Got it.

Speaker 2: 3:22:37

So let's talk a little bit more about Tierra del Volcán, which I wish I had was a better Spanish speaker, but I wanted just to highlight that we had the most incredible trip to Ecuador a few years ago as a family.

Speaker 2: 3:22:48

We actually had two family members pass away, and many of our audiences from travel channels have known the story of my father dying of cancer, my mother-in-law dying of cancer, and the reason I'm highlighting that is because the big trip that we did after they both passed away the first kind of big family trip we had done in nearly three years and this is a family that's used to taking multiple trips a year and very avid travelers.

Speaker 2: 3:23:10

We went to the Galapagos and it was certainly one of the most meaningful, if not the most meaningful and powerful trip we've ever taken in our lives as a family, because I had encouraged our kids to read up and to specifically on Charles Darwin and the whole history of natural selection and renewal and so that death being a part of life and how we all evolve and change, and so it was intended to be an amazing trip as a holiday but ended up being something much more profound, and when we were in Ecuador, we went to Quito as well and we explored a little bit more of the mainland of Ecuador and it completely blew my mind just what a beautiful country it is, what amazing people, and so tell us a little bit more about Ecuador for our global listeners, because clearly people listening to this they're familiar with ATTA, obviously they know about Ecuador, but I want to make sure that all of our travel trends listeners globally know more about this beautiful destination and the types of travel experiences that are available in Ecuador that you have brought to life.

Speaker 11: 3:24:16

So I will describe Ecuador like a whole world on planet earth. You know, is Ecuador is the same size of the state of Colorado or, for those in Europe, is the same size of England. So we're very small, related to our neighbors, but we're the country with more species per square mile or square kilometer in the planet and that makes it a very unique place. And why is this so unique? So there's what is called the this theory that during the ice eras there were places that did not freeze in the planet and a lot of them around the equator line, and all the flora and fauna moved to those areas. That was warm and there was food and they remained there. So the concentration of wildlife and vegetation in that area is amazing.

Speaker 11: 3:25:06

Also, to the Galapagos Islands, which is one of the most unique places in the world, I normally say there's one of those places that you could not die without seeing. It Arrives the Humboldt Current, cold, and the Nino Current, warm. So bring all these fishes and wildlife from the cold water and the hot water. And then is the place where the kind of like the Pacific Ocean meets the Amazon Basin. It's the closest point where the Pacific Ocean is to the Amazon Basin and that's allowed you to travel a lot, and all this biodiversity you will reflect in the kind of activities that you could do and the food you could try. And so that was the reason why. And Tierra del Volcán means the land of the volcanoes, and that's because Humboldt, one of the most important explorers, talked about the avenue of the volcanoes when he visited Ecuador. So the Galapagos are volcanic, the Andes in our area are volcanic, so it's one of the most volcanic places in the planet.

Speaker 2: 3:26:11

That's a beautiful introduction for anyone like I would have been before. I had the privilege to travel to Ecuador, and I know Melanie, who works on partnerships for our team. If there's one place she could live, it would be Ecuador. She spent a lot of time in Ecuador, and so when the volcanoes I'm so glad you mentioned that as well, because, of course, the Galapag Islands are all volcanic activity and they're gradually actually kind of going back into the sea and it's just remarkable to be able to. There's no place on Earth like the Galapagos to be able to see a lot of these. It's so isolated that all these incredible species and what you just described with the Humboldt Current, we got a chance to experience seeing hammerhead sharks when we were there, which is also for a very small window of the year when they make their way in for mating and like it's so many more remarkable things. So tell us a little bit about your business, though, and some of the activities you offer and where you see the tourism activity growing in Ecuador.

Speaker 11: 3:27:09

So, first of all, mainland Ecuador. I normally describe it as a giant Galapagos.

Speaker 11: 3:27:14

This is kind of what you see the Galapagos, but in a bigger scale and we, with Tierra del Volcán, we're a tour operator that will focus on exceptional experience. Our slogan is even a legendary moment. So the idea is to offer you legendary moments to connect you as a family, to connect you as a couple or to expand yourself. So the idea is not to show you the destination, but use also this time in travel to explore other things related to you, because when you travel, the beauty is that you could be whomever you want, and we invite you to explore those possibilities In this very beautiful destination that is Ecuador, where we have these haciendas. That has been in my family since the end of the 19th century. They were bought by my great-great-grandmother, a strong woman, and so the idea is that we will take you to these ranches where you could go horseback riding or you could go from one hour to several days.

Speaker 11: 3:28:23

Ecuador is like if you're a mountain biker. There's no better paradise in Ecuador as a mountain biker Amazing possibilities of hiking, and because everything is so close, you know, because the Amazon, the Andes and the coast is so close, the variety of experience that you could have without moving a lot is amazing. So if you want to see South America in the Clan Stats, ecuador, and we take you to see the best and hidden places of it, with great food, unique experience, amazing adventures, and we take you to our ranches, that will be even to tell you something is for many of our guests. They think the Galapagos was going to be their highlight and Hacienda El Porvenir, next to Cotopaxi and being their highlight of their experience.

Speaker 2: 3:29:10

Oh, that's incredible. So let's jump and fast forward, though, to bringing Spain into Primitivo, because now that you divide your time, so I want to cover both in our conversation today, because I certainly could go on and on about my enthusiasm for Ecuador, and obviously there's so much to continue to explore there, but let's bring in Primitivo into this and how you ended up creating a secondary business and dividing your time between these two markets.

Speaker 11: 3:29:34

So with Tierra del Volcano, as I said at the beginning, the idea was to help support the local communities and establish new models, and it has been a very successful model and we realized that that was something that we could replicate. And then my partner now in Spain, invited me to go horseback riding in Asturias and was one of the most mind-blowing experiences that I have, because I saw that no one was offering adventure in Spain and I saw a beautiful opportunity there to create opportunities for those local communities and to show you the most pristine primitive places in Spain. So the idea is to help you to escape from the crowds and go and go the profound Spain through their cultures, their flavors and their natural wild places. So, for example, spain is one of the is the only country that still has brown bears in Asturias. So we take you to the Somiedo National Park to see birds, or we invite you to go to the Camino Santiago on a hero's journey, or just go to Granada and explore the geopark. That is like visiting La Capadocia, but in Europe.

Speaker 2: 3:31:04

Fantastic. And so where are you at with Primitivo as a business? How have you scaled that? What is the size of the team? What does that business look like now?

Speaker 11: 3:31:13

We just launched Primitivo on 2024. We are having our first groups. We have set some beautiful four programs that the idea is that connected to your primitive side as well. So you have these tribes that you could join. So you could be a warrior, or you could be a hunter, or you could be a gatherer or a druid, depending if you want to explore more the spiritual side, or challenges or food. So the idea is that we tailor experiences based on these destinations and invite you to explore. We're still a short team we're four people in our team but it's growing and I think we'll be one of those companies that will thrive over time and will take you to explore a different Spain that you've never seen before. Oh that's so exciting.

Speaker 2: 3:32:06

I'm thrilled for you. And now let's bring it back to us being here together at ATTA, and obviously it's great to meet you. I know what a strong relationship you have with Shannon and how keen he was for us to connect. I'd love to hear more about your connection to this community. Clearly, people keep coming up to you. Obviously, you're someone that's well-known and well-respected in this space, so tell me a little bit more about your involvement with ATTA and specifically, if you wouldn't mind too, what brought you here this year and some of the things that actually have been some of the highlights from Denver Elevate 2025?

Speaker 11: 3:32:38

So I think I'm a believer that together we stand, divided we fall. That has a positive view of tourism well-managed, because tourism well-managed could be an amazing tool for changing the world. Tourism bad-managed, you know, we end with what we see in Barcelona the people throwing water to tourists. So ATTA has been a force for good in adventure travel, bringing this community together, sharing openly between all the members. So I normally say that beyond a community we're almost kind of a tribe, you know, that share the same values, that share the same principles, the same concerns for the planet, for taking care of the tourists but to protect the destinations we visit with. And it's beautiful because here, like in ATTA, you could learn from other models, people.

Speaker 11: 3:33:45

So normally, instead of think globally, act locally. For me is think locally, share globally. And this is kind of what happened here, yeah, that you fix the problems in one destination, which will be different from a different destination, but you're able to see it and see what of that you could apply. And ATTA can show you that. And Denver for me, you know I consider Colorado kind of the capital of adventure of the United States, even though there's California and there's so many other beautiful places, or Washington State, but Denver, for me, is one of these places, super connected to the outdoors life, and there's always something you could learn, and I think the US is a planetary leader in many things and the the outdoors industry is is one of those. So I wanted to come and see firsthand and experience firsthand this beautiful place yeah, no, well said, and um the uh.

Speaker 2: 3:34:47

Obviously we have the day of adventure. That's the festival tomorrow. Are you staying for one more day?

Speaker 11: 3:34:50

of course, yes, I'm going to the festival. There's no way I will skip that.

Speaker 2: 3:34:54

That's awesome. No, I'm so glad. I want to make sure that all of our listeners can find out more about both Primitivo, which is primitivotravel, just for those of you who are multitasking.

Speaker 11: 3:35:15

But let everyone know, jorge, the best ways to connect with both of your organizations and be able to follow up and connect with you. So, for those interested in Spain, you could look for us at Primitivotravel. That's like primitive, but with a no at the end, that travel. For those looking Tierra del Volcán, it's tierradelvolcáncom, but because I know that you might struggle with that, if you type cotopaxitravel you will also find us.

Speaker 2: 3:35:36

Nice Cotopaxi Okay cool Because we're next to Cotopaxi Volcano.

Speaker 11: 3:35:40

So the clothing brand of Cotopaxi comes because of Cotopaxi Volcano. Yeah, that I can pronounce well, so that's perfect, and I URL because we know that sometimes people struggle with Tierra del Volcán, so you might find it through Cotopaxitravel as well, that's awesome.

Speaker 2: 3:35:58

I appreciate you highlighting that for all of the English, the unifile English language speakers out there that need to know about Ecuador and travel to your beautiful country and get to know just how special a place it really is. And actually our big family trip this summer is to Spain, interestingly enough, so you've got both sides covered.

Speaker 11: 3:36:19

Yeah, yeah. So I'm so happy that Ecuador was such a special place for you and I feel blessed that that happened, but looking forward to hosting you in Spain. I have some amazing opportunities for you as a family bonding there.

Speaker 2: 3:36:33

Thank you, that would be great. I'll definitely take you up on some recommendations, for sure, jorge, and I just want to say it's been a pleasure meeting you and getting to know you over the last couple of days. I look forward to celebrating at the Outdoor Festival tomorrow, after this whole conference is wrapped up, and I certainly wish you and the team every success going forward. So thank you so much.

Speaker 11: 3:36:49

Thank you, dan, it was a pleasure.

Speaker 2: 3:36:52

Thanks so much for joining us on this latest event spotlight from the ATTA, the Adventure Travel and Trade Association Conference in Denver, which was absolutely extraordinary, as you heard from these 16 amazing people that we spoke to over the course of this episode. It was incredibly inspiring and I certainly look forward to seeing everyone again in Chile in October at the Adventure Travel World Summit. Special thanks again to Shannon and Gabby and the entire team at ATTA for welcoming me into your community. It's an honor to be a part of the organization and work so closely with many of your team members and also now to have a special podcast series together to focus on adventure. I'm looking forward to introducing the next episode and continuing our journey there, and I also just wanted to acknowledge all the amazing people I had the chance to speak to.

Speaker 2: 3:37:35

Thank you again for making the time for these conversations. It was wonderful to also get time with you over the conference and especially on the last day at the festival. For anyone that wasn't there, one of the cool things that they did is they tied the ATTA Elevate event with the outdoor festival that's held in Denver outside over the course of that weekend. I actually changed my flights to fly back on Sunday so I could be there for the full day on Saturday, and it was absolutely extraordinary to see everyone that had been at the conference with their booths doing business and also catching up with each other, and we had an epic night out in Denver that night that culminated with some karaoke and late night scooter rides. So I just wanted to say thanks again for everyone for making the event so special, and I can't wait to see you guys again in October. And also, don't forget, we do post clips and highlights from all these conversations on our social channels, so be sure to check out YouTube, instagram and LinkedIn at Travel Trends Podcast. Until next time, safe travels.