Travel Trends with Dan Christian
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Travel Trends with Dan Christian
Crafted Journeys: Exploring Culture Through Spirits Tourism with Pernod Ricard
Laura Sileo Pavat, Global Head of Brand Homes at Pernod Ricard, returns to Travel Trends to explore how spirit tourism is transforming cultural connections across the globe.
With over 35 brand homes spanning four continents, Pernod Ricard has reimagined these spaces as immersive destinations that tell authentic stories and forge lasting emotional bonds. From the award-winning Jameson Distillery in Dublin to the architecturally striking Rabbit Hole in Louisville's arts district, these experiences highlight a new way for travelers to engage with places and their narratives.
The discussion takes us to extraordinary locations like Scapa Distillery in Scotland's remote Orkney Islands, where a boat shelter-inspired building overlooks historic waters, and TX Whiskey Ranch in Fort Worth, which evolves from a working distillery by day to a vibrant community hub by night, hosting everything from live country music to yoga sessions. Laura reveals how these brand homes foster genuine connections with local communities through collaborations with regional artisans, musicians, and chefs—such as TX Whiskey’s bottle caps made from recycled cowboy boot leather or locally-crafted goods at Casa Altos in Mexico.
Perhaps most intriguing is how spirit tourism addresses overtourism by guiding travelers to lesser-known destinations while driving economic growth for local communities.
Whether you're a travel advisor seeking distinctive client experiences, a destination marketer focused on sustainable tourism, or a curious traveler craving meaningful connections, this conversation offers a fresh perspective on how spirit tourism is reshaping the travel industry.
👉 Listen to Crafted Journeys: Exploring Culture Through Spirits Tourism Now
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Part of our duty, I think, in the industry, and part of my mission, will be to focus on how we let people know around the world that the spirit tourism exists, that the spirit places, the home of the spirits, are not only the places to learn or taste. They are the places where you connect with culture, history and you understand better the destination you're visiting.
Speaker 1:Hello everyone and welcome back to Travel Trends. This is your host, dan Christian, and, as everyone knows, we're in season five and we're now getting towards the end of the season. This is our last deep dive of season five focused on in-destination experiences. Our first episode last week featured Christian Latchell from BRC Imagination Arts, and I'm still struck by Zach Fanas, our producer's comment that I just can't believe a job like this exists in the world, and I know he loved that episode, and it was wonderful to see so much positive feedback over the past week from many of our listeners as well. And it really ties together with the overall theme because Pernod Ricard kindly agreed to sponsor this series and, as you would have heard, is that Laura Cilio-Pavat, who's gonna be featured on today's episode, was actually in season three of Travel Trends and it was one of our most popular episodes. Her and I have become great friends over the years. She's such an inspiring colleague. She speaks multiple languages. She over the years. She's such an inspiring colleague. She speaks multiple languages. She has such an impressive portfolio of brand homes that she works with. It's really a fascinating story, so I definitely encourage all of our listeners to go back and listen to the episode with Laura from season three, but please continue on listening to this episode first and you can go back and check that out afterwards. We're also next week going to have the legendary bestselling author, joe Pine from the Experience Economy joining us, as well as Jake Halpert, who is the co-founder of the Transformational Travel Council. So this is a really special three-part series and already we have agreed to bring this series back in season six. We are going to have Ignacio, one of the co-founders of Fever, join us, as well as Vince, one of the co-founders of Meow Wolf. Think Omega Mart in Las Vegas is probably one of their most well-known attractions and, as you'll hear from next week's conversation, we're going to have Joe Pine and Jake Halpert back to join us as well. We'll be right back.
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Speaker 1:And now back to the show. Now, today's conversation with Laura is what's really set the stage for us having a deep dive into in-destination experiences as part of season five. But it all started with season three and, speaking to Laura and having gotten to know her so well over the last couple of years, I wanted to bring her back as part of this series, because the brand collection at Pernod Ricard is really quite fascinating and actually more complex to understand and to be able to market and manage. And so when you look at the collection of properties that they have globally that operate these brand home experiences there's more than 35 in four continents and they include such iconic destinations like the Jameson distillery in Dublin and obviously all of our listeners heard about that from Christian Latchell last week since he had such an important role in designing that experience, which has been award-winning, and I know a lot of our guests have experienced that and a lot of people who traveled to Ireland on tours have been to the Jameson distillery.
Speaker 1:But that really is only the beginning. They have Monkey 47 in Germany, beefeater Gin in London, rabbit Hole in Kentucky, glenlivet in Scotland, as well as the Scapa Distillery in the Orkney Islands, which looks absolutely extraordinary. I can't wait to visit one day. I know my mom is keen to go together and so hopefully we will make that happen next year, but I also encourage you to have a look at the Havana Club in Cuba. There's also the Casa Altos in Mexico, maison Momme in the Champagne region of France.
Speaker 1:You can also find Pernod Ricard brand homes in Napa Valley. They operate Mum Napa in California. They have locations in Japan, china, south Africa and even Niagara-on-the-Lake, just down the street from me here in Ontario, canada, and I really wanted to bring Laura back for this conversation, and you'll see why today. She's just an extraordinary leader in the travel and hospitality space. She really has a global vision and a clear strategy for the Pernod Ricard brand homes and you'll hear that in today's conversation. So, on that note, let's welcome Laura back to Travel Trends. Laura, it's fantastic to have you back with us. Thanks so much for sponsoring the series and thanks so much for joining us on this special In Destination series.
Speaker 2:Thank you, dan, to invite me and take part of this another great conversation this year.
Speaker 1:Fantastic and one of the things I've certainly enjoyed about having the Travel Trends podcast is being able to keep in touch with amazing colleagues like yourself. We had the privilege to work together and many people heard that on our first discussion and I have the greatest respect for you as an executive and a leader in this industry and I really appreciate you've become a big fan of the show and Pernod Ricard has kindly sponsored this End Destination series and I really wanted to have you as part of this conversation because we certainly have a very high caliber group of guests and you are certainly one of them and deserve to be a part of it, because there's an amazing story to our first podcast together and don't know your background. Tell everyone a little bit about your role and about Pernod Ricard.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you, and I'm very pleased to be part of this series because actually what you just mentioned about brand norms is a middle between a marketing term and a very recent terminology that we created in the business of hospitality industry and travel business. So myself I have a quite disruptive background because I was a professor at university before reaching Pernod Car 25 years ago, so quite an old love story with this business and with this industry and actually I had the chance in the last 25 years to see how it was evolving, this interest for the in-destination experiences which is, from the group point of view, seen as a branded business, so a brand experience. So I think I was in the right place and in the right moment in the last years to see this. Today I'm leading these 14 credible locations for the group Pernod Ricard, who is the second biggest, the co-leader group in the alcohol, wine and spirit distribution. So I'm very happy and very proud to have been actors, to have seen this transformation.
Speaker 1:For sure, and I think many of our listeners would have already heard Christian Latchell, who clearly has worked closely with you, brc. They actually have created a number of the brand homes in partnership with Pernod Ricard, and we talked specifically about Jameson in Dublin, which many of our listeners might have experienced as well. So the thing that amazes me with Pernod Ricard is that, having had a chance to get to know you so well and collaborate with the organization, I'm still constantly amazed how few people, especially in North America, are familiar with Pernod Ricard. It's the second largest spirits company globally. Yes, and I was actually.
Speaker 1:I was just in Windsor, ontario, just across the border from Detroit, and we drove past the Hiram Walker distillery and it highlighted it is a Pernod Ricard company and I said to my wife I wonder how many people actually know that connection and understand Pernod Ricard, because actually, laura, one other thing I have to share we did this Columbia Spotlight episode and I discovered this extraordinary new banana-infused rum La Hecarea, I believe it is called in Columbia and I asked the lady can I get this back at home? Because I just had done the tasting? And she's like I'm not sure that you can and I looked at the bottle and I said it's brought to you by Pernod Ricard. I was like oh, this is fantastic.
Speaker 1:I know I can get it.
Speaker 2:So tell everyone a little bit more. But just about the history of P car is an incredible history because it's more or less has got the same age than me, because the group was created in 75 by the fusion of two big groups and perno and producer alcohol producer, spirit producer, perno and ricar exactly so 50 years ago. And then step by step, we're acquiring other brands. So that's why the name of the group itself and pernaud ricard in general is not a brand in itself, because we are a summary and an incredible portfolio of spirits around the world covering many, many categories.
Speaker 2:So step by step in the last 50 years, personal car acquired whiskeys and scotch whiskey, irish whiskeys and bourbon and jeans and tequilas and a lot of other category drinks and so at the time they were buying those, those spirits. Sometimes homes of those spirits were existing and sometimes Bernard Carr decided to create them and sometimes, as in the case you mentioned, we work with BRC agency on Ball Street in Dublin, for example, for Jameson. Sometimes we decided to give another life, to give another expression to those homes of the brands that we owned or Pernod Ricard owned or bought. So there was a story of creation, evolution, development and transformation.
Speaker 1:It's fascinating, and I think that's where one of the things that we haven't talked about that I'm actually keen to know just when you mentioned about there were some brand homes in existence and then some that you created. Just when you mentioned about there were some brand homes in existence and then some that you created, given this is such an important focus for Pernod Ricard going forward, as we look at in-destination experiences, and it totally makes sense to me that the brands themselves are sacrosanct, so Pernod Ricard is secondary to the brand being in the marketplace and people knowing Jameson being a great example, because that is so well-known, especially in North America. But when I think about this journey that you started on, where did it actually begin? Which were some of the brand homes that existed or which were the distilleries that had places you could visit, maybe kind of mention one or two of those, and then which were one of the new creations?
Speaker 2:creations, yeah. So for example, historically in our portfolio of brand homes or fortisites we have, some of them were quite centuries ago, were created as distilleries. If I mentioned, for example, Stratisla distillery for Shivertree Gilds in the Northern Scotland, so the oldest actually Highlands distillery that the group owns and existing in Northern Scotland and it was transformed in the 60s actually in a visitor center, it has, for example, the Moom Visitor Center for Champagne. So those are existing for the last 50 years. So all the historical distilleries or quite old visitor centers we said, or recently maybe, for example, the example of Rabbit Hole in Bourbon, kentucky, so in Louisville that brand was born and it was created the home of that brand in 2019, integrated in the Kentucky Barber Trade.
Speaker 1:That's really interesting and I think one of the things I also wanted to call out to our listeners is just your background, and when we had our discussion we called it the Champagne Chronicles, because of course, you are based in the Champagne region in France. You live outside of Paris and obviously commute in, but your husband. I got a wonderful opportunity to have lunch with Laura and her husband and her two adorable kids. They were in Toronto and we had lunch last summer and it was really nice to get that time together. But one of the things that really stood out to me is that your husband works in the vineyard and actually grows the grapes and like so your entire family is so connected From the grape to the glass.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We are from the grape to the glass, to the travel to see the glass and the production.
Speaker 2:So it's very key and important. That's why, actually, even if Pernod Ricard's main office is in Paris, of course, at the heart of all the business and all the France where we are, we are part of representing France as well as a brand company. But I decided to still live in the region and nearby the field where things are happening for wineries and distilleries, but as well for the tourism around, so we can better understand when we really live in places where this is an action.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just want to fast forward to one of the other interesting developments that will give a lot of context to our listeners about the type of experiences that you've been focused on creating. I received an email from Uber because I'm a heavy user of Uber for all of my travels and it highlighted the champagne experience during the Summer Olympics in Paris last year and I sent it to Laura because I was like, oh my God, this is fantastic, there's a shuttle service to take you to champagne. And Laura was like, yeah, I'm behind that. I actually worked on creating that.
Speaker 2:It wasn't by accident.
Speaker 1:So tell us how that came to be, because that's a great example of where you know, connecting to modern day travelers. That was such a peak event in France last year and people were traveling to Paris and then not necessarily aware that they can do a side trip and be able to go and experience Champagne and experience one of the brand homes. So tell us a little bit about that initiative, because I think that helps really bring it to life.
Speaker 2:Yes, that initiative was very good because it demonstrates how the Champagne area as well is transforming its way to welcome travelers. So we were contacted by uber. For their part called uber bubbles. So they they do some initiatives which are short term, not that necessary experience that you can find forever. There are more iconic experiences that you can live during a certain amount of period.
Speaker 2:And so there was a proposal to come every day from Paris, so that car, a particular brand car, was picking up people with a private driver in a hotel in Paris and bringing to Paris-Jouet Célie Belle Epoque to understand, and Moum as well. So at Moum and Paris-Jouet we have both visits of the facilities, so wineries and cellars and all the historical parts, but as well we have restaurants. So in Maison Belle Epoque in Epernay, we can have a gastronomic experience. Just to underline that those brands travel brands are asking much more, as Uber did, and asking and trying to fix and collaborate and create partnerships as well with local actors of the destinations, as we are. So putting together their service, but enhanced by the experience the people could live on site we created for a couple of months. Actually, at the beginning was just month, but it was totally sold out.
Speaker 1:And so we wanted to extend for a little bit more, even after the Olympics. Interesting, no, and obviously it worked out so well. And this is just one of several examples that I wanted to discuss on our conversation today, because I find some of the brand activations with the remote locations really fascinating. And then how you actually market them and bring people to these brand homes, because I totally get that there are consumers that love the product itself and they're very keen to go visit the brand home. Or they may be visiting the destination and discover, oh, I didn't realize that it's in Ireland or it's in Scotland, and they get excited to go and visit. And clearly one of the things that stood out to me just as a marketer oh, I didn't realize that it's in Ireland or it's in Scotland, and they get excited to go and visit. And clearly one of the things that stood out to me just as a marketer, laura, is that and you know this is that building long-term loyal customers and giving them an incentive to be able to experience the destination obviously creates a lasting memory and really an ambassador for life in many ways. Someone who's now been to a brand home has had the experience and can then share that with friends and colleagues, and that is, I know, the tagline or the brand motto I should say around Pernod Ricard is conviviality, which doesn't translate very well to English but is much more like the spirit of welcoming and that sense when you have a cheers with a group of friends and that you know that special moment that conviviality signifies and no other great English word does. But so I get that aspect about it for sure and I think that's a compelling reason on its own. But I think there's also something really fascinating that's been happening here if we take a step back and look broader at the industry, and it's one of the things that I was keen to ask Rod Cuthbert about, the founder of Viator, who will be after this series.
Speaker 1:And one of the things that I asked Rod about when he created Viator was the timing.
Speaker 1:It was in the 90s, and what he was saying to me was that it was exactly at the point where the zeitgeist of the traveler, his words, were shifting towards experiences over things and we had moved past this Wall Street mentality of he who dies with the most toys wins and that people were starting to kind of reevaluate their priorities and realize that life is really about living and having experiences, and so there was this shift in people's attitude to doing local activities and clearly we've seen that explode in the last 25 years.
Speaker 1:So there's been a big shift over that time with how people travel. So tell us I guess definitely my question to you there, laura, is that, given this kind of major shift towards people looking to have more unique, memorable local experiences, how did you decide to approach that overall, as a team and as a business? So did you see this opportunity coming and realize, wait a second, we need to find a way to do something different and special here. How did it all come about, given that big shift? And, yeah, what were some of the reasons for going into this space?
Speaker 2:Yes, I would just like to make a path behind. And you were saying the transformation. So transformation was really important in the business because 25 years ago, actually, few distilleries in the world and few wineries were open to the public for tours. Mainly, the model of that time was dealing with big tour operators and travel agencies traditional travel agencies to be included in packages. So we often received at that time big buses with 50 people inside. They had a counted time to spend in that winery or distillery, to get off the bus, visit and taste and then pass through the shop and back in the bus and back to the other experience. It was just a summary of steps without any judgment, because for this, because that was the way then, as you said, with vetor, there was a big shift. So instead of be passive on that shift, I think myself and other actors in the in the industry, with the teams we set At that time I was leading Martel Moumen, perrier-jouet, so the Cognac and Champagne brand homes for Pernod Ricard, and some of my colleagues were leading the Ireland one and the Scottish ones and other destinations.
Speaker 2:So we settled together and we said we need to shift as well as quick as possible, and this was around 2015, 2014,. So 10 years ago. Definitely the big shift then was done 10 years ago, where the major refurbishment of visitor centers was starting and we were leading the way. On that moment, wall Street you mentioned at that time was totally renovated. Doesn't mean that Wall Street Jameson in Dublin didn't exist before. It existed, was very successful. The model with the restaurants we had, with the visitor center we had, was working. It wasn't bad, but definitely, to listen to the expectation of the travelers, we needed to adapt and we shifted very quickly. So, from 2015, 16, 17 on till today, every single year, a group like Pernod Ricard is investing in renovating or creating experiences.
Speaker 2:2021, we opened in Marseille Maison Yellow for the Ricard brand and which is not only for the Ricard brand, because it's a bar, it's a restaurant, it's a museum, it's an experience, it's a concept store where you can do workshops, activities, pastissologie around the pastis and the same a cocktail class is today. Create your own cocktail, create your own blend In Martel, for example, in Cognac, we can blend your own Cognac. You can have very, very wide varieties of experiences, going to very group ones or very accessible to very high end, and so we said at that time as well to very high end. And so we said at that time as well, why do we need to do only in big cities or in established touristic paths? So in Scotland, for example, we had the traditional Aberlour, the Glenlivet, which was recently renovated. But as well we had Stratila.
Speaker 2:We mentioned very old, but at the end we said there is in Scapa in Orkney. Orkney is an island. Is it really north? It's one of the northest brand homes existing. Don't we offer as well a local experience? So our experience there is maximum sitting, 16 people for example. So not big crowded visitor attraction, but we reshape. So we not only shift but we reshape as well places to answer the traveler's needs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's fascinating. Glenn Livet is a great example, because my uncle he absolutely loves Glenn Livid and when he was traveling to Scotland recently he didn't realize that you could tour the distillery and I'd sent him the information and he was delighted. And this is where I feel like in travel and tourism, there are certain times when the stars just align and you just realize that wait a second, I didn't know this existed and I actually love this idea, and this is what I find really intriguing about Pernod Ricard and the Brand Homes and what you've worked to introduce, and I just want to share this with all of our listeners for a moment too. You can obviously go to Pernod Ricard's website and check out the Brand Homes, but one of them I just want to call out is Glenlivet, and just listen to this description for a moment.
Speaker 1:The Glenlivet Distillery sits in a wild and remote Glen. Its history, laced with drama and intrigue, which is captured in every bottle of whiskey. It is the perfect location to discover the full story of the whiskey and the irrepressible spirit of the Glenlivet, and when you look at that picture, you just want to be transported there. And this is a place that was known for producing these products. It is special for someone that is an avid connoisseur to be able to have the opportunity to visit. But I also find it also really interesting that, even if you're not a whiskey lover which is not my preferred drink but I actually found that I will do whiskey tasting and thoroughly enjoy it. But I wouldn't otherwise drink whiskey, but I like the whole experience of being able to go and visit a distillery and go with friends and be able to have that experience. So I will still choose to go.
Speaker 1:So there's many different reasons or motivations, I should say, for travelers to be able to have these experiences.
Speaker 1:But one of the things, laura, that stood out to me, the way you've approached this, which I also found, I guess, much more sustainable, even though, to use that word, there's much more of a focus on the local community, and that is something and you were alluding to that in some of the ways you were describing how these experiences come together, because it's not purely about getting a ticket sale Like the tickets to the Glenlivet are like 30 pounds to a hundred pounds, like it's it's quite reasonable, but when you actually.
Speaker 1:But it's not just about selling a ticket and getting someone through the door, it's about creating an experience in the destination that also creates local opportunities. So tell us a little bit about that, because I feel like that is very, very real, very sincere. When you look at the brand homes and even the fact that you travel around to all these brand homes and people obviously love you and adore you and obviously you have an incredible role to be able to travel to these places because they're extraordinary. But yeah, tell us a little bit about how you really connect with the local community that's very important because you were talking about conviviality.
Speaker 2:If I want to be really honest with you, this term is just a term. In the brand homes you are really in the authentic place. I always say these are the place of the truth and the truth is that when travelers are coming into those places, if you're not authentic, you're not linked to your local roots, you cannot describe how will be the future of that brand, of the destination. So both are very important. Authenticity and conviviality are going together. When you open the door of one of our brand homes, I think we are much more than business. We are emotion factories. If there's no emotion, there's no souvenir, there's no memory and if there's no memory, you're never taught to anybody. To go there and suggest oh my God, I was in Northern Scotland, I was, oh my god, I was in northern scotland, I was in kentucky, I was in china and I discovered the very first brandon created for the chuan malt distillery. So we create those memories, but to be so authentic and so true is not possible if you do without locals, so if you do just in your own, you know, crystal ball and for your own brand. So that's why I said yes, the brands are now playing with the tourism boom they're using, but in spirits we start many, many years ago to tell our story, to tell us truth, and our story is linked to the roots, is linked to the locals. For example, very easy, when we open a restaurant, we have some of our brand names, like Monkey 47, the gene in Black Forest. In that case, that Monkey 47 gastronomic experience or any other activity that we propose in our program are in partnership with local actors, are in partnership with local actors. All the Monkey 47 ingredients are sourced, but also for the gastronomic experience, 47 kilometers around the distillery.
Speaker 2:Or, for example, in Casalcos in Mexico, in Jalisco, we just sell items in the shop which are made by local artisans and we do collaborations with local artists, for example, even for some of our labeling, for some of our items or merchandise and limited editions. In TX whiskey, for example, the caps of our bottle for the whiskey are realized with the recycled boots of cowboy boots, leather. That's cool and there is a collection, and so people are coming back to the brand home to collect those bottles, to collect those caps. So it's um, it's a question of valuing what you have in your story, because if you are the custodian of the past of a site and you want to be the actor of where the future begins, the place where the future begins, the place where the future begins. You need to be truly, truly connected in astronomy, in art, in savoir-faire, in craft, all the connections we have and keep us very authentic and so better connecting with the people who come to our door, if not them.
Speaker 1:You can see perfectly on internet and the images and videos without moving yourself from your home to our home yeah, and I think that's where, when you look at some of the destinations scapa flow being a great example, the scapa distillery that you have on a very remote uh island in scotland, which has a very significance for then you world war ii aficionados they certainly know that it was a a crucial naval base, uh for the uh, the, the British Navy, and this is one of those truly off the beaten path destinations and I would say it's a hidden gem which a lot of travelers are looking for and they're reading their Lonely Planet guidebook or they're doing research on the destination and they discover we need to go to the Orkney Islands and they're like, oh, there's Scapa Flow and oh, there's this distillery on this incredibly remote place.
Speaker 2:So that's where it creates opportunity for tourism yes, and we're very lucky because actually our Scapa Nus so till two years ago and 2023. So when we created, actually our visitor center of that distillery was just a very, very tiny closed tasting room room in the same entrance area, because it's very, very tiny, but at the end we are overlooking the sea and we are overlooking in front of us the Scapa Flow. So we said what's a better place in the world to sit and taste and understand this particular whiskey made in this island? So we asked to a Scottish architect called Mark Fresen to do something to create a building, because we wanted a building. So he created this Noose is actually the technical term we give to the traditional boat shelter that they have in the scavenging and so he represented, he realized actually the building architecturally like a noose, and around us, in front of us, there is the history of that battle.
Speaker 2:Of that, you know, there is the past. As I said before, we are the custodians of the past, but at the same time, you leave a very strong emotion being in that building, built with the material of the island, with the architecture of the island, so with Orkney. So that's a perfect example and how we are reboosting that destination.
Speaker 1:Well, my mom and I are planning a trip to Scotland. My mom's English. I was born in England, as maybe some of our listeners know, but she's desperate to get back to Scotland for a visit. So we've been planning a trip and that's on our list. For sure We'll be right back.
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Speaker 1:And now back to the show. Let's bring it back to North America for a moment, where, obviously, I'm based. You are in Paris, as our listeners heard, and Pernod Ricard is so much more of a known brand in the European market, given the history of Pernod and Ricard and even when I was in France you can see all of the advertising for Ricard the pastis I had my very first Ricard drink in Paris with Alexander Ricard, who is the CEO of Pernod Ricard, which was an extraordinary experience for me to cheers him and to think his grandfather created this drink and, ultimately, this global empire that he now runs. So that was really cool. And when I've been to France since, I've seen people playing Patonk and drinking Ricard and it's been incredible that you have really modernized that experience for a younger generation and so, but this is where you've got such great brand recognition in Europe.
Speaker 1:And then, when I think about the US, there's still so much opportunity to raise awareness for Pernod Ricard and even the brands that you own, and when I think about the US, there's still so much opportunity to raise awareness for Pernod Ricard and even the brands that you own. So the place I really want to talk about is the Bourbon Trail, and this has been top of mind, for as we've been dealing with these global tariffs, all of a sudden this comes into focus because wait a second, don't put tariffs on our bourbon, and so it highlights just how big an industry it is and how important an industry is, and that hasn't happened. So I know people love the Bourbon Trail, but tell us a little bit about what the Bourbon Trail is and some of the distilleries that you have there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's very interesting because this is exactly from Scapa. We were talking about the custodians of the past, but talking about Bourbon Trail, we can talk about where the future begins Because, actually, thanks to the collaboration of many, many distilleries of different groups, who put the strength together in 1999, actually seven distilleries created this Bourbon Trail. Distilleries created this bourbon trail and say, okay, what if people are coming to kentucky and discover really that this bourbon, this product, which is really linked to this terroir and it's so important? So there were just seven at the beginning and step by step today, do you know, dan, how many distilleries are part of the kentucky bourbon trade?
Speaker 1:I do not know. I haven't done this yet. So no, tell me 60. I'll be guessing 60. Wow.
Speaker 2:Zero, so there are 60. And for us we're very proud to be part of it with Rabbit Hole. So Rabbit Hole entered in the Kentucky Bourbon Trail in 1999 because it's a quite recent brand and a recent brand name but actually became very, very soon heralded as the new architectural icon of the Kentucky Barbon Trail, because it's separate. In Louisville you have the trail Louisville, but in different counties of Kentucky. But I'm talking about Louisville because it's where we are.
Speaker 2:So we have a traditional road where main distilleries are, and Rabbit Hole is actually in New Loo, in the district, the design district, and so we wanted to create, and we brought to the Kentucky Barbell Trail as well, something very modern, very new.
Speaker 2:There is a bar with a rooftop surrounding with an incredible view on all reveals. So actually is how that example is how the collective strength can develop a destination. So I said 60 distilleries, but if you think that today more than 2.7 million visitors are going to Kentucky to experience the Kentucky Barrel Road Trail, it's incredible because actually and I could mention as well same numbers, similar numbers to scotland so many, many years ago people were going to these destinations for any other cultural event, for discovery or traditional tourism. Today, the spirit tourism, which is a new term that I want to spread around the world more and more, because wine tourism is very well established, but few people are really understanding and knowing very well what is spirit tourism. And spirit tourism is leading this nation, as in Kentucky. We did it very well with the collective effort and collective collaboration.
Speaker 1:Well, it's interesting you mention that, because there's certainly been a big trend towards cocktails and cocktail bars and having the specific spirits that suit that drink best. And just on a related note, I was out we were having gin and tonics and the waiter had suggested Monkey 47, which I hadn't had before, and then I discovered of course that's actually part of Panova Cards brands and he was highlighting the botanicals and the fragrance and it was just interesting to hear someone promoting Monkey 47 and this gin, for exactly the reason you described is that this is what would lead someone to then wanting to find out more about Monkey 47 and then just determining oh, there's a place you can actually go and visit. But as it relates to the Bourbon Trail, I want to stay on that topic because I'm very keen to go there at some point. I didn't know those. The numbers are staggering. You mentioned like 3 million visitors, I think.
Speaker 1:When I looked at the stats for Americans traveling to Ireland or Scotland, it was more like 500,000, 700,000. So when you think about the domestic opportunity, it's significant, and one of the things that we're certainly seeing right now as an is that many Americans are looking to national parks, and so I think this is why I wanted to keep on the Bourbon Trail, because I haven't been and many of our listeners may be intrigued, especially this year, to go and check out the Bourbon Trail and do a road trip. So I can't believe there's 60. I was going to maybe guess 10 or 12. So clearly I was going to be way off. But when we think about the experience of going to the Bourbon Trail, a place like Rabbit Hole, how do you fit in with that whole? How do you market that destination as people are considering taking the Bourbon Trail? Are people just stumbling upon Rabbit Hole? How do you make sure that Americans know that?
Speaker 2:actually, if you're going to do the Bourbon of Kentucky Derby, which is an annual rendezvous with lots of people Americans coming to Kentucky for that event. And in this case we partnered, for example, and we're present, so we promote and we basically then what is important is how Rabbit Hole is different, because it's not just a question of advertising, so how the team of Eric and Annie, all the people working in the Rabbit Hole, believe in the creation of those experiences and create something differentiating themselves from the other distilleries. So if you create that difference immediately, you can attract because you know, as years ago, if you look at the past, in the past year, the first distillery or created the experience bottle your own or, you know, you create your blend was making the difference at time and so people were choosing to go there for that reason. In our cases, for example, we were focusing in the last year in much more impressive tastings and particular tastings and pairing food. So experiences inside the brand in this sense and as well the fact of lots of artistic collaboration and design collaboration that we have with the brand, are definitely attracting cultural lovers.
Speaker 2:As you said quite at the beginning of our episode, it's not only about bourbon lovers, also how we attract other audiences to bourbon, that destination, and then the heart is beating and they become rabbit hole lovers well, one of the things as I was preparing for our conversation, laura, I was actually looking at the bourbon trail specifically, and it the kentucky derby was recently on and we're talking about louisville, kentucky.
Speaker 1:There was this neighborhood that it was referred to as, uh, new lou, and it's it's new louisville, which this is like. I also find this all fascinating too, because I you know, when you think about certain US destinations, they have a French heritage and a French connection, and so Louisville, obviously King Louis, and so it's there's, there's so much, I guess, when I started peeling it back and thinking about this really cool, modern, artsy area within Louisville, kentucky, if this is where this is why we all need to travel more and learn our history and experience new destinations, because you see how connected we are and but yeah, so that certainly stood out to me as a reason to actually go was actually the neighborhood it's located in and the fact you get to have all these other experiences.
Speaker 2:And gastronomy is very important as well. I mean gastronomy that you can pair. I mean it's not only about us. There's also very important then that if we look at ourselves only and say, okay, the experience maybe is lasting one hour and a half, you can keep the conversation and connection with people a couple of hours, so more you are connected with the neighborhoods and with the particularity of your part of the city where you are, or the gastronomy experience you can offer your hotel experience. I remember in louisville there was an excellent hotel experience with a all around the repeal day. You know it was an important tradition and and in the history of the of the bourbon, which is can be lived as well when you, when you travel to leave it I'm not saying more so you can discover yourself when you're going, going there.
Speaker 1:The other one you mentioned too is TX in Texas. So, like moving, you're still staying in the American South. And TX whiskey, the building itself, the TX Whiskey, the building itself, the TX Whiskey Ranch itself looks extraordinary. It's because it's obviously a ranch and it's in Fort Worth, texas, which I've been to before, and Fort Worth is a really special part of Texas. It's like it's it's like the, as far as it's the most Texas Texas gets. I mean, yes, there's Dallas and San Antonio, but Fort Worth is what you imagine when you think of Texas.
Speaker 1:I guess is one way to put it. And so tell us a little bit about that, because now we're moving from bourbon to whiskey and obviously there's a commonality between these two. But the reason I'm asking about that, laura, is because I'm keen to know how important the US market is, and you mentioned something there a moment ago about tying these experiences together for spirits lovers and for people who are interested in that style of travel. So tell us a little bit about Texas specifically and then how you envision tying this together for the American audience.
Speaker 2:Thank you for talking about Texas because for me, atx Whiskey's branch is a great example of how we can go really beyond the brand and we can go really beyond the experience, because we have a huge program in that ranch with not only about tasting or about cocktail classes. So the TX Whiskey Ranch was created as well recently, but the strength of that brand, for example, is to be located not far from Fort Worth and as well from Dallas, because it's less than one hour from Dallas. Most of us have a program linked to activities of Texas. You said you felt like arriving in Texas. We have the cobalt leather boots recycled on the cap, but as well on Wednesday, for example, afternoon we organize the famous Wednesday at the branch.
Speaker 2:So what we do is we create an ecosystem, we create entertainment. So a brand home is not only a place where an international visitor, traveler who took a plane or train, can get into for two hours and then go back home, it's also for locals. So every Wednesday afternoon in that ranch we invite local music band, country band, and they are on our terrace and people can sip a cocktail and can eat some food and listen to the music. And so we not only give visibility to those bands and so to the other artists, but as well, we create a repetitive visit. So we create a place where actually, potentially in your life, you have three places your workplace, your home and TX Whiskey Ranch. So on Wednesday afternoon you have like a rendezvous.
Speaker 2:On Saturday morning we do yoga classes on the terrace of the ranch, so we really have a very, very full program. Cooking classes with barbecue classes, because we also created a barbecue rub with a with a whiskey ingredient and with the tx whiskey ingredient inside. So actually, what is important for me to highlight in the case of the TX and many of our brand names in America is that we're not focusing only to attracting travelers from far. Today, people looking for experiences are also the local living, and I think pandemic gave us a big lesson on that point. So instead of spending money in owning a product, you want to spend time, qualitative time, with people you love. So maybe, as some of our friends have said in the past, what if travel is not only where you go but what you love and who you meet? And this is the case of what happened in our brand homes.
Speaker 1:Well, it's interesting Because of the brand homes like. I'm based in Toronto, as many of our listeners know, which is Ontario, canada, and it's a short distance from Niagara Falls and Niagara-on-the-Lake, and that's our wine region. You have Foreign Affair there, a winery, so it's a place where we'll take family or when they're visiting, we'll go down to Niagara-on-the-Lake and so you can create a vacation to your point about in your own backyard or that you don't necessarily need to travel, however there is. You know, you have properties in Mexico, and specifically tequila, which is my preferred spirit of choice, so I definitely have to get there at some point. But this is where, when you're, you know Americans traveling to Mexico that actually it's already in sync with their travel plans, and then they can add this into the consideration for their trip or do their research and figure out how they build it into their trip.
Speaker 1:I certainly love the idea, laura, of being able to visit multiple places and be able to have these experiences around spirits and how they were created, and the Pastis and Patonk is one great example of just. It's much more of a cultural experience and even when I was in France, you can see the shirts and I think in each of these destinations, creating these experiences, is exactly what travelers are looking for today, and I know you guys are continuing to expand globally and I think you've got I think you've just got back from Japan, I know you've got initiatives as well in China. What are some of the other big developments that are coming up with? Pernod Ricard some, the creation of the single malt distillery in China, in Sichuan region which is a perfect example of investing.
Speaker 2:For me, at least, was the first and only time, probably in my life, where you see the creation of a brand and, at the same time, pernod Ricard Group decided to create the home of the brand exactly in the format, to welcome travelers and whiskey lovers and to educate as well, because we have a mission as well and a commitment to educate to become a good life taster and product and join responsibly our product, our products. So the Chuan in Aimé-Chan is a good example of the last creation, opening late in the end of 2023, in December 2023. So it's just one year, one year old. It's a very recent baby but at the same time, not only recent baby in terms of brand, but a recent baby in terms of brands. But a reason, maybe in terms of behavior for travelers.
Speaker 2:So in Europe or in America, we are very used to go and visit distilleries or wineries, but this sort of experience is less common in China. So we were practically pioneering this type of experience in the same place, at the bottom of this Aimei Mountain, at the bottom of this Emei Mountain, which is bringing tourists and travelers for other reasons, because there is a spiritual retreat, tourism there and water, spa and wellness typical destination in Emei. So we're bringing now an additional new cultural destination. So we have an art exhibition, we have a distillery tour, craft experiences to learn and be educated around whiskey the Chinese whiskey and as well, a very important restaurant. We deal with a local partner with that restaurant. So we really actually we shift in historical destination and a way to travel that Chinese travelers have to another one, and so that's the part of passion which is fascinating me the most, because we create something, new habits and we participate of the shift of the industry as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, that's where you know there's a huge market in Asia and China and Japan. I mean Japan is having as you know, you've just been there I mean it's having record tourism numbers and Asia really is unto itself for people who are traveling around within that region. I think that's the one other thing that many Western nations don't fully appreciate is just how much travel is happening within Asia itself is just how much travel is happening within Asia itself. And when you go to Thailand and you see all the Chinese tourists that are there for Chinese New Year and there's a massive industry just within. I mean, as Matthew Upchurch highlighted to me, there's 100 million Chinese travelers that still haven't come back to the global travel industry post-pandemic and many of those Chinese travelers are traveling domestically or they're traveling within the region. So that's what I find really fascinating about Pernod Ricard as a truly global business, is that you have to operate with so many different cultural factors and then also looking at traveler trends, with where people are traveling to, to try and figure out well, is it Americans that are going to Ireland and Scotland, is it Americans that might be going to Japan? And how you approach them. We'll be right back. Attention. Travel operators, destination management companies and accommodation providers.
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Speaker 1:And now back to the show.
Speaker 1:So I know you've got a talented team, laura, but one of the things I wanted to ask you in terms of your future plans and you alluded to obviously developing more of a brand strategy around spirits.
Speaker 1:So obviously I know that's likely going to be one of the big drivers, so I'm keen to hear more about that and also just the role of brand partnerships, because on our Forbes travel guide series and you know that I was there in Monaco at the summit we just did this 10-part series that many of our listeners have been enjoying as well, and one of the highlights we talked about was a company called Bon Collab that they had introduced this year and announced, and Bon Collab is essentially what enables luxury brands to work with luxury properties, and I know a lot of our listeners would have absolutely experienced this when you check into your luxury hotel, that you will find Louis Vuitton bags or certain things for sale or integrated in the experience, and so I feel like there's got to be a lot of opportunities for partnerships with Pernod Ricard.
Speaker 1:So I'm asking that question because I'm sure people are listening to this. I'm keen to reach out to you or collaborate with Pernod Ricard, but tell us where you're headed with the brand homes and then tell us how you're working with different partners.
Speaker 2:Yes, there are a couple of elements you just said which are very interesting for me because, first, incredible teams. Without them, that connection in the 20 different countries where our brand owners are set won't be possible, as you said. Second, the travelers we receive. So we receive international travelers, but as well we need to face and respect and welcome also our local and domestic. So every time our teams are planning new experiences or expanding or creating partnerships, they both take in account how we present and introduce our destination, our branding to the destination through the experience, to locals but as well to very wide expect different expectations from international football. Third element it's also very important for me is in the expansion is what you mentioned about the prestige and luxury. So inside our family of Brand Home, we have a part of our duty, I think, in the industry and part of my mission will be to focus on how we let people know around the world that the spirit tourism exists. Then the spirit places, the home of the spirits, are not only the places to learn or taste. They are the places where you connect with culture, history and you understand better the destination you're visiting. So that's an important mission and we can do it definitely around the world because we have whiskeys or gins which are in the different continents, including a gin in South Africa, you can imagine. So we have gin in Tokyo, gin in South Africa, we have tequila. We have whiskeys in America, in Ireland, in Scotland. So different approach around the world.
Speaker 2:But as well, there is another parameter, another expansion and point of attention for me for the future years. It will be around prestige. I have the chance to lead with my teams a lot of places which are historically very important. I'm mentioning Maison Belle Epoque, the largest private collection of art nouveau in Europe, or Chateau de Chanteloup, created in 1858, so a very old mansion in Cognac. Or the Linn House, an historical castle that we have in the northern Scotland. So places like those, and even the chance that we have one of our brand homes inside Tower of London for the Royal Salute brand.
Speaker 2:So these places are particular places with a very, very rich and they are charged of history and so on these places we would love to collaborate much more with concierge, with very high-end natural individuals, travel companies, and to make discovering a gastronomic approach, an historical approach, a very deep experience. We can also sleep under their castle and rooms for accommodation in these places. So collaborating and partnering with very high-end luxury brands will be key for us. But particularly we started as well with some hotel groups for the wider approach, like Marriott Bonvoy, for example. So we created for the Marriott guests in Marriott Bonvoy experiences redeemable by points. So we work in sort of beats with them and it's successful and it's around the world. It's in Kyoto, it's in Dublin, in Cognac, in different locations. We partner with big partners at Marriott to expand and collaborate and bring powerful and insightful answers to the new traveler's needs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting that Marriott example is a perfect one, because that's exactly like the Bond, colab and Forbes Travel Guide and what they're seeing is a major trend in terms of retail experiences and connecting luxury brands with luxury travelers, and I think we're only at the beginning of that. I stay at Westin Hotels from time to time and the Westin, the Westin, heavily beds. Every time I stay at a Westin hotel, all I want to do is order their entire bed collection and bring that home with me to have that same experience. Westin's not a sponsor of this podcast, but I do love staying at Westin hotels for that reason. But that just highlights having a delightful guest experience and I think that's what has been central to our conversation today, because this is the in-destination experiences and some of the conversations we're having as part of this series with you, with Christian, and then, of course, with Joe Pine and Jake from Transformational Travel, who are also going to be highlighting some of these traveler trends and shifting behaviors.
Speaker 1:I wanted to make sure we finish off on that note too, laura, because clearly you know you're looking at the data.
Speaker 1:You have a great understanding of who your customers are.
Speaker 1:I know we can always have more visibility, for sure, but you certainly you know, sitting as the head of this, you know a great brand with great potential for growth, especially in the tourism sector, and that's what excites me most about Pernod Ricard's involvement in this space is that, you know, being a spirits company, you have the opportunity to become a travel company and to offer travel experiences and to be able to really grow that side of the business.
Speaker 1:So what I wanted to ask you what are some of the trends that you're paying attention to in consumer behavior? And I know we've touched on a number of them here, but I was just keen to know where you see this industry headed, because you mentioned some things that I really liked about the strong emotional connection, and when we heard from Christian just describing the experience of going to Dublin and experiencing the whiskey tasting there at Jameson Again, for me not being a whiskey lover, it sounded so amazing I'm like I have to experience this so that clearly there's something innate there that is, a human desire to be able to travel, to be able to have these experiences. So what are some of the things you're really focusing on as you grow this brand and encourage more people to visit these brand homes? Where are we headed, laura?
Speaker 2:So for me, we need to stay focused. We need to listen as I said many times during this episode to the travelers and what they really need, and not to make pleasure to ourselves, to the lot on all the trends and everything. So for me, first of all, if I look where my brand homes are, where perner car homes are settled, we definitely can contribute to develop the tour destinations, because today there is a one term, which is the over tourism. All the traditional destinations see cities collapsing under tourism. So many of our places will play a key role with the experience. We propose to develop the tour destinations, which sometimes are not known. So create the awareness about their existence and what you can experience in there will be really key.
Speaker 2:Then as well, I think we are definitely in the trends of the slow travel. So, taking the time, when we were talking about connection, we were talking about emotions. Definitely our places are places for longer stay. So to incentive people to keep and stay longer in places and to travel a little bit slower, but as well, maybe, why not? I mean we were talking about locals, about the workation. So people are maybe moving for business trips and they want to stay. They can stay longer if they have an offer in those cities where they're moving for business to stay and work there and sell a bit longer, or maybe stay one month.
Speaker 2:We never know if they find attractive solutions. So I think definitely to end on this that the responsible travel and the sustainable practices that we are embodying as well in our commitment on the responsible hosting we certified all our homes as responsible hosts to educate people. So this sort of education travel slow and take the time, connect with the locals, connect with the people will be key in the future of our travel destination that we are contributing to my teams. They do all the best every day with a lot of passion, which is the main ingredient when you work in experiential travel. So the main ingredient is the passion of every people you're going to meet, who are sometimes very international teams but sometimes led by very local as well. It's a mix of the two that can share their passion and share their secrets and our brand secrets with all the people who are and to visit us in the next year.
Speaker 1:That's great, and one of the things that stood out for me is that the opportunity for travelers to have an escape and this idea of transformational travel, which I find really compelling, because ultimately, I think that's one of the things that I've always identified that I love about travel is being transported to another world and a time and be immersed and you are out of your day-to-day reality and then when you come back to your home or to your work and you see the world a little differently, that, for me, has always been one of the real joys of travel and I'm sure we share that, laura. But this is where I'm very keen to see how things continue to evolve for Pernod Ricard, because I'm very convinced that this style of travel, as people look at like, say, google things to do and are trying to figure out what they want to do in a destination, that they should be looking at opportunities like this, even if they're not in the consideration set right now, because of the overall experience you could have by virtue of the location and the history and the culture for spirits or non-spirits lovers. So yeah, I don't know, you've got a terrific team. Obviously, I think the world of you, laura, and I'm sure the audience can sense that from our conversation today. So I'm really excited to see where you're headed with this branding, because I think that that is a massive opportunity for Pernod Ricard. So I'm keen to see how that all comes together.
Speaker 1:But I also want to make sure that all of our listeners, especially since we are very heavily B2B one of the things that came up in one of the conversations with one of the brand homes at one point was just how much business they get from travel agents and how they actually work with different tour operators and build it into their tour. So I would love to make sure all of our listeners know how they can collaborate with you. So, beyond just people that have listened to this, they're keen to travel to these destinations. I think more people listening to this are going to be that much more likely to want to partner with you send their travelers there. So I'd love to finish on that note and tell people how they can connect with you and learn more about partnering with Pernod Ricard.
Speaker 2:Please contact me. We have plenty of solutions and, most of all, we personalize. I mean the last word. I would like to say to all these partners that I know they're listening. What I would like to say to all these partners that I know they're listening as myself I listen with very interest to all your podcast series, dan is do not hesitate, because we need to innovate, we need to collaborate together and the personalization is really key. So very often, what I do with the partners is we never propose to all of the partners packages already existing. We co-create to ensure that the personalized experience that an OTA or a travel partner is creating is definitely adapted to his audience and to the target he wants to reach. So please feel free to reach. So please feel free, dan, can give my email to any of you who want to collaborate with the Pernod Ricard Homes to develop destinations around the world in America, europe and China and Japan and South Africa. We are in Mexico, we are everywhere and we're very keen to co-create every time and please contact us.
Speaker 1:Perfect, and it's Laura Cilio Pavat at Pernod Ricard. But it's Laura Cilio-Pavat P-A-V-A-T. But you can look up Laura for sure on LinkedIn. She's very active on LinkedIn and I appreciate you extending your email as well. I'm very keen to find out everyone that reaches out to you to certainly to be able to partner with you. So that's much appreciated, laura, and I'm certainly keen to keep in touch with you. I mean, obviously we're great friends, so we'll be in touch anyway. But I'm also a big champion of Pernod Ricard, having to know you and the team so well, so I'm very keen to continue to see your success and look forward to future collaborations. So thank you so much for making the time for this, thank you for sponsoring this series, and I look forward to seeing you in person again soon.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much, Dan, and my last question for you is are you ready to come home, Dan?
Speaker 1:I am so ready.
Speaker 2:I am so ready, you are more than welcome to visit and to stay with us in all the homes we have. Thank you very much for giving us the opportunity to be part of this series.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much for joining us on this episode two of our deep dive into the world of in-destination experiences. I hope you enjoyed the conversation today with Laura Cilio-Povat, the global head of brand homes for Pernod Ricard. Next week, we are going to have the bestselling author, joe Pine, and the founder of the Transformational Travel Council, jake Halpert, join us for a episode on transformational travel experiences, which is going to be the theme of Joe Pine's next book coming out in a few months time and, as you've heard, we are going to bring back this concept for season six, which launches in September. But before that, you can check out all the highlights on our YouTube, linkedin and Instagram channels at Travel Trends Podcast, and don't forget to subscribe to our monthly newsletter at TravelTrendsPodcastcom for the updates on our latest travels, spotlight episodes and all of our plans for season six and our AI summit. Thanks again for joining us today, thanks again to the Panora car team for sponsoring this series and I look forward to you joining us next week. Until then, safe travels.
