Travel Trends with Dan Christian
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Travel Trends with Dan Christian
Event Spotlight: Aviation Festival Americas 2025
Step into the future of aviation in this special event spotlight, recorded live from the Aviation Festival Americas in Miami.
Host, Dan Christian sits down with some of the brightest minds in aviation and travel tech to explore the innovations reshaping the industry:
• Amir Amidi explains how Plug and Play Tech Center connects startups with corporate partners across the travel ecosystem
• Tom Trotta details how travel insurance is evolving through AI-powered claims processing and proactive benefits for delayed travelers
• Marco Gons from "No Longer Lost" demonstrates their innovative QR code solution for reuniting travelers with misplaced items, pets, and even children
• Aaron Bricker, CEO & Founder, Skyward Aviation Insights shares how to enhance efficiency and profitability
• RAVL's community platform combats the isolation of business travel by connecting professionals in the same destination
• Irma Sadlauskaite, Avion Express shares strategies for recruiting and retaining pilots amid a global shortage
• Terminal manager Yaqui Ramos reveals how Munich Airport NJ creates exceptional passenger experiences
• Arpad Szakal, Partner Aviation & Transportation, Cormis Partner shares how to find the best senior level talent
• Dalton Laine from GoJetAirlines discusses his unique business helping entrepreneurs launch new airlines
• Aviation recruiters, Signal Software highlight the growing demand for digital talent in traditionally operations-focused environments
Whether you’re in the business of travel or simply curious about the future of flying, this episode delivers insider insights, breakthrough ideas, and a glimpse of what’s next in aviation.
Subscribe now and stay tuned for Season 6 of Travel Trends, launching this September with an in-depth focus on aviation’s future.
The #1 B2B Travel Podcast Globally. Over 100 Episodes. Listeners in 125 countries. New Episodes Every Weds. Season 5 In Progress.
https://www.traveltrendspodcast.com/
So when you think of an airport, what the priorities of an airport organization are, I would say number one is safety and security. Number two is operational efficiency, to get people in and out of the airport in a very efficient manner. And then number three is everything else. So passenger experience, riding, comfortable environment but really the priorities are security and operational efficiency and then everything else comes. Third, based on what their KPIs are.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone and welcome to Travel Trends. This is your host, Dan Christian, and today we have a special event spotlight from Aviation Festival Americas. I had the privilege to be invited for this conference in Miami in 2025, and also an opportunity to moderate a session on AI's impact on airports. One of the people that was on that panel, Amir Amidi, who is the managing director of travel transportation at Plug and Play, works with a lot of startups and airports. He was an amazing addition to that panel and actually we're going to kick off this special event spotlight with my interview with him and we're going to speak to everyone, from pilots, including one pilot that has now created a company that actually helps companies create new airlines. So that was a fascinating conversation, as well as the head of HR and recruiting from Avion Express, a company based in Lithuania that operates about 50 planes and crews to actually help airlines out when they need a partner to be able to operate a specific route for them. My son, as you'll hear, I've mentioned him a few times in these interviews because he's off to university in September and he's headed off to become a pilot, and so it was very reassuring for me to hear at this conference that there is a very bright future ahead for him, given how many airlines are buying new aircraft and are looking for pilots. So I was excited to relay that to him. But you'll hear some of those conversations throughout the podcast. We have 11 individuals that are joining us. We also have my good friend, Tom Trotta, who is the VP at Allianz Insurance, so we get to get into some of the specific areas of insurance that work for airlines and airports. He's been at many of the major travel conferences so I've seen him over the years. It was nice to see Tom again.
Speaker 2:We speak to a few different startups Marco Gans, who's the co-founder of no Longer Lost. There's quite a few startups in the luggage space which, given the amount of luggage is lost every year in airlines, makes total sense. We also speak to the co-founder of Ravel that's R-A-V-L Andy Carnes, who is focused on building out a business travel community. And we actually speak to a few people that work within the airports. Yaki Ramos, who's the terminal manager at Munich Airport in New Jersey, was a really fascinating conversation. We spoke to different recruiters, like RPAD, who works for Partner Aviation based in London. We also spoke to software developers like Alex, so it was really fascinating to have this conversation with all the people that work in the airline and the airport space, but I also wanted to highlight that the conference itself really is going from strength to strength center, where they explore new strategies, cutting edge technologies and, of course, build valuable commercial partnerships.
Speaker 2:They had more than 200 speakers, including many C-level executives, and work with airlines like Delta and American United JetBlue. So I definitely encourage any of you that are interested in this space. My good friend who runs Sherpa, Max Tremaine, has been involved with this event because they actually have a major conference in Lisbon in October and then they are in Singapore in early March next year and then back in Miami again next May 2026. We have kindly been invited back for 2026. So be sure to join us there.
Speaker 2:If you're looking for more information as you're listening to these interviews, be sure to check out worldaviationfestivalcom. You can check out their events and also more information about getting involved in their organization. So thanks again to the AFA team and everyone we had a chance to meet and speak to. I certainly left very inspired for the world of aviation and we've actually decided to add an aviation track to our AI summit in October and we are also going to be doing a deep dive theme into the world of aviation in season six of Travel Trends. So thank you so much for all that inspiration. It certainly opened up a new world to us, and I really hope our listeners enjoy this series of conversations.
Speaker 2:I now have the pleasure to sit down and speak with the gentleman that was on my panel yesterday and was an amazing speaker. He's also a good friend of mine. I've known him for a number of years and it was one of the reasons that I wanted to be here at the conference. It's Amir Amidi, who is the head of Plug and Play, and he runs the travel side of that business as well, and so he's based in San Francisco. He's got lots of connections in this entire space, so I was thrilled that he was here, and I'm particularly thrilled we have the chance to sit down and have this conversation. So, Amir, welcome to Travel Trends.
Speaker 1:Thank you, dan, pleasure to be with you. And just to clarify yes, we are good friends and unfortunately I wasn't able to convince you during the Travel Corporation days to join us as a corporate partner. So shame on me for not being a good sales guy and connecting the dots. And just to clarify I'm the head of travel and hospitality and one of the founders of Plug Play.
Speaker 2:Amazing. No, I appreciate you giving that context and especially, as you mentioned, when I was living in LA and I was traveling up to visit you, I really wanted us to be a part of that program and so it wasn't you, it was ultimately COVID for all of us because I think we were. I had only moved to the US six months before COVID happened and we were having those conversations and trying to make it happen. But I have the greatest respect for what you guys do and obviously would have loved to have been a corporate partner and I see how many companies have benefited from being part of the Plug Play ecosystem. So I'm glad you mentioned obviously you're a founder, you are the guy. So tell everybody. For those that are coming to know you for the first time and are not familiar with Plug Play, give everyone the quick overview of what Plug Play is and what you guys do.
Speaker 1:We started Plug Play in 2006 in Silicon Valley with a mission to invest in the most promising technology companies and to a great extent, I would say we've been very lucky over the years to have been part of some entrepreneurs' journeys.
Speaker 1:We've done about 2,000 investments across 20 different industries, primarily business-to-business software, into our operations.
Speaker 1:We started getting approached by Fortune 500, fortune 1000 companies who wanted to actually build relationships with the startup community, but they had a tough time sorting through all the noise. So they thought, because we're investors, we could do a better job of identifying technologies developed by startups who can actually deliver on their promise to Fortune 500, fortune 1000 companies. So it actually became a very, very interesting dynamic between us large enterprises and the startup community. So we started making these one-off introductions to the likes of Procter Gamble, target, tesco, kohl's, volkswagen and PayPal and over time we realized this is a very unique position for us to be in because over the long term, it actually helps us evolve our investment thesis, meaning, if we understand what the roadmap for IT spent is for someone like Procter Gamble, then we can actually do a much better job of knowing what our North Star is when it comes to making investments. Got it Today we're active across 20 different industries, making investments and working with roughly 600 corporations across those 20 industries.
Speaker 1:We have 65 offices around the globe a good mix between Asia, europe, middle East, africa and Americas. We do about 200 investments a year. The travel practice came into existence in 2016 when I came back to Plug Play from my startup years in the hospitality world and launched the practice in Silicon Valley. And from day one, our mission was to make the traveler's journey more seamless by encouraging collaboration across stakeholders across the entire travel value chain, so from OTAs to travel agencies, to airlines, to airports, to hospitality groups to ground transportation companies, encouraging collaboration between them to share data and provide a higher level of service to travelers and more personalized service, but also staying true to the plug and play mission to invest in the most promising startups in the travel industry. Fast forward to today we're working with roughly 20 travel suppliers.
Speaker 1:On the corporate innovation side, so, the likes of Singapore Airlines, international Airlines Group, all Nippon, cathay, jetblue was a partner of ours for about nine years and they decided to take a different direction. As you know, the JetBlue Ventures arm was actually picked up by an aircraft leasing company, but they were a great partner of ours for nine years WestJet. We worked with airports like Frankfurt Airport. We worked with Airport di Roma, vienna International, changi. And then we work with other travel suppliers so Accor Hotels Flight Center out of Australia, tmcs like CWT, and essentially our job is to become the eyes and ears for these travel suppliers on a global scale and find technologies that could actually move the needle for them in one shape or form. Moving the needle means technologies that could help them increase revenues, lower costs, bring operational efficiency, or any technology that could help them serve their existing or future clients better through personalization, personalization that goes beyond these legacy loyalty programs that we think of at Plug Play as bribery schemes. Nobody likes the loyalty program that they're a part of, but we're all locked into it.
Speaker 1:So how can you actually build true loyalty? By personalizing your service and build brand loyalty through digital channels. That's what we're focused on. For our travel suppliers, we've done about 40 investments on the startup side since 2016. And I'm happy to share that out of the 42 of those investments have become unicorns. So they've reached a billion dollar plus market cap, which, considering what happened to all of us during COVID, is quite lucky for us, and we're going to continue doing what we've been doing sitting in between the, I would say, the corporations and the travel industry and the startup community and bridging the gap between the two sides of the market.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, you have an impressive roster of clients, and I think the other thing I just wanted to highlight too that, as you were describing working with corporate partners and then startups, the one thing that you guys provide and do so well at is this matchmaking service to connect these two communities and, as you know very well from my previous role heading up, you know marketing and digital innovation at a large. You know two billion dollar, 40 brand company you. One of the keys to my role and the success that I had there was working with startups, because you don't necessarily have access to the technical skills and also you have so much else on your plate at the moment the idea of partnering with a startup that's doing something innovative, and those startups get to partner with a larger company. They get the value of having a client, a large client, they get the reputation, but you, as a corporate partner, you then also have the opportunity to shape the roadmap with that startup, and so I love the fact that you guys have really been a trusted partner to so many startups that have become successful by virtue of being a part of your ecosystem, and I can think of a few examples.
Speaker 2:Amir kindly invited me in to be one of a plug and play advisor and I've done a number of calls with startups in your community and I'm very committed to helping them and finding their way bonafideai Fantastic business model and concept and they're going to. I think they're poised for explosive growth in the travel sector. I just spoke to them the other day. So tell us a little bit more about some of these success stories, because you mentioned about the unicorns. There's one also that one of the companies that was an itinerary builder that was bought by Flight Center.
Speaker 1:That's right. U-mapped was one of the accelerated startups as part of our services to our corporate partners. They got picked up Flight Center also. They're one of the most active partners we have. They invested in a company called Shep through their TMC arm that had this browser extension that would make sure the people booking corporate travel were actually compliant to the rules and corporate policies, if you will. They invested in them and then they eventually picked them up actually, and Daniel is actually the CEO of that company. He's part of the Flight Center executive team now, which is amazing yeah.
Speaker 2:And they were based in Montreal and when I was actually at your event I got a chance to see the team because Jason was there, two of the founding team members were pitching at the event and I was so excited to see them and the fact they were part of Plug Play and then they got acquired and it was just like you know, just the stars aligned and you guys were obviously a key part of that for them. So it's great to see those success stories and clearly they continue.
Speaker 1:By the way, congrats on your involvement with a company that I hadn't met before, a company called WeRoad yes, out of Italy. What an amazing business the founder has built in a very, very tough segment of the market, and I think they're going to have a very, very bright future in the coming years.
Speaker 2:I'm glad you mentioned that because I had actually connected Paolo, the founder, to Amir because he is headed to the Valley he was doing meetings in New York and meetings in San Francisco because they've built this business to your point. In the last four years they've gone from $10 million to $100 million in sales and I'm convinced they're going to be the fastest travel company to get to a billion dollars in sales. And the reason I'm so convinced of that is they have yet to launch in the major markets where this product is primarily purchased, primarily purchased and that is North America and Australia, and so they're not in the U S, they're not in Australia yet. They will be soon, uh, depending on when people are listening to this. But we wrote is you know it's, it is focused on community and it's an incredibly innovative and it's just got a great company culture and you can just see that that you know they're they're going to continue to do great things.
Speaker 2:I'm, I'm, I look forward to you meeting Paolo and having a chat with him, and he was obviously super keen to get to know you too, amir, and I'm glad you mentioned that because it also just highlights the good people know good people, and this is exactly why startups listening to this should absolutely get involved with plug and play, and that's why I wanted to give some of those examples of those success stories, because startups, when you're navigating this world of travel and trying to figure who to partner with, I couldn't endorse or emphasize plug and play enough.
Speaker 8:Thank you.
Speaker 2:You guys are a testament to what's possible to build a successful business and to really allow these companies to thrive.
Speaker 1:And, by the way WeRoad, they're not a portfolio company of ours. And, by the way we wrote, they're not a portfolio company of ours and I would say this stage they're at is not where we like to invest just because they're much more later stage and their valuation is much higher than typically where we like to invest, but because they're working on something unique that has value for our corporate partners. We've rolled up our sleeve and told the founder that we will help them have a soft landing in the US market and they're part of the community. So, to your point, stan, we don't necessarily just provide value to our portfolio companies on the startup side of the equation.
Speaker 1:We are extremely startup friendly, whether you're a portfolio company or not, because we Constantly have to make our corporate partners Happy and someone Like we wrote may be able to do business With someone like flight center, for example. Good example, or his Out of japan or jtb out of japan.
Speaker 1:So We've made our ecosystem completely Risk-free to the startup community and it's allowed Us to get access to stage agnostic startups across the travel spectrum. And once in a while, when we'd see the collaboration taking place between a startup that we haven't invested in and our corporate partners, and if the stage of the startup is right and the opportunity is right, we invest during the next financing round of the startup.
Speaker 1:Got it and in the case that we wrote, I think investment is off the table because of their stage, but I think we can create a lot of value for them by putting them in touch with relevant corporate partners who could help them have a soft landing in the US market.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, thank you, and that's why I'm kicking off this episode between the two of us, because the other thing we obviously were on stage together.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:And so you run great events, and obviously we're here at one together. Tell everyone what brought you to AFA this year.
Speaker 1:So shame on me, I have not been to AFA before. I had heard from a few acquaintances in the industry good things about the size of the event. I'm not a huge fan of big conferences and a few of my good friends in the industry were attending, and Claire, the conference organizer, approached us to be part of a few of the sessions panels of the sessions panels and she also asked us to promote the session across our startup ecosystem and the corporate partners that we have. In fact, one of the speakers, shikhar, who's the founder of Spotnana he happened to be in Miami and I told him about it and he ended up actually speaking at three of the sessions, which worked out great for Claire. So the reason I'm here is to meet folks like yourselves and make some new acquaintances on the aviation side and basically see if it's a conference that we want to be a part of going forward. I love the size, I love the fact that it's in Miami and I've met some nice people like yourself that I didn't know before.
Speaker 2:So far so good. That's awesome. No, it's great to see you again here and that's one of the highlights for me coming to the conference is knowing that we're going to be here at the same event together and then also on stage and have a chance to moderate the session yesterday with you yourself and Maurice as well, from Miami-Dade Airport. Yeah, great guy, it was a fantastic session. You guys just like I just literally said hello and then they just you guys just took it away from there. Tell everyone, just give everyone a little brief overview of what we covered in yesterday's session and what some of the highlights were for you of being here and part of that session specifically.
Speaker 1:We covered the high-level topic was autonomous vehicles and robotics in the airport environment, but the conversations as it usually does with a good moderator kind of took a turn of its own.
Speaker 1:We covered a lot of topics. So, on the topic of robotics and autonomous vehicles, Maurice covered what they're testing and what they've tested at Miami-Dade. We talked about the cultural impact of these new technologies would have for teams like Miami-Dade International adopting new technologies and the fears that come with that and how it could replace jobs or could it replace jobs, and the impact it would have on people's future. Really focusing on technologies which I think Maurice has done an incredible job that have an ROI, you know, testing out things that actually will have a positive impact on the top or bottom line, instead of just testing the newest flashy technology that everybody's talking about. And at the end, we also touch upon, I think, a very important topic that needs to be talked about more, which is accessibility solutions when it comes to travel which doesn't get enough airtime, I think, and it should, and it's an area that Plug Play is becoming more and more focused on as well.
Speaker 1:But the topic, I think, took a few turns and one of the points I made, at least when it comes to autonomous vehicles and robotics and the airport environment, is that all these technologies, although they have a place, they're going through a testing phase and when it comes to the actual ROI, at least where we're at today, the ROI is not realized.
Speaker 1:I think it's good to test things, I think it's good to be part of the, I would say, implementation phase of these technologies.
Speaker 1:Let's say implementation phase of these technologies. And I also made sort of a comparison to the shopping mall and the retail industry, and the case is that the number of robotics that have robots that have been deployed in the retail industry, malls in particular, is 10x when it comes to numbers and dollar value, versus the airport environment. And the question was are they going down the right path and the efficient path, or are the airports that have deployed one-tenth of the robots that have been deployed in the retail industry going down the right path and letting the malls make all the mistakes, test out the technologies and adopt the best of the breed. And my point was you know, perhaps the airports are actually going about it the right way. I don't know if they're intentionally going about it the right way, but I do think not being the first to test the newest flashy technology is actually going to work to their advantage this time around. So those were, I would say, the highlights for me anyway.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of the things I also wanted to just call out to Amir, since we had a pre-call together yourself, maurice and I and we were discussing what we wanted to cover on stage. One of the things that you specifically called out and we went into a bit of discussion on it yesterday was the fact that airports, despite the fact that it's a massive industry and there's a lot of technology, they're actually quite behind in embracing digitization. And Maurice made the point at the beginning that here we are 30, 40 years later and we're still literally traveling with a boarding pass and our passport. As much as things have changed. Yes, there is self-check-in and there's baggage handling and AI is being utilized in some of the things we got into, but fundamentally, you highlighted the fact that actually it's a challenge to innovate within airports because of regulation. So the example you were giving about other retail and just showing you how much further ahead malls are compared to airports, which is an interesting analogy, because airports have become shopping malls all of a sudden, right? They're?
Speaker 5:good ones anyway. Yeah, that's true, exactly.
Speaker 2:So just highlight that for our listeners, because I think we have a lot of business travelers and a lot of startups. But just to make that point, because I think when I started the session, I talked about the fact that digitization in airports, that technology right now the market is about a $14 billion market in 2025. It's expected to be about $27 billion in 2030. There's a lot of companies here that are trying to carve a niche for themselves in this space, but obviously not everyone's aware of the fact that it is slow moving and it's behind. So tell everyone a bit more about that, to put that in context.
Speaker 1:So when you think of an airport, what the priorities of a airport organization are, I would say number one is safety and security. Number two is operational efficiency to get people in and out of the airport in a very efficient manner and then number three is everything else. So passenger experience, providing a comfortable environment for people to basically board their flights, do some shopping, eat something although everything is super expensive in airports I would love to find out why that is someday but really the priorities are security and operational efficiency, and then everything else comes third, based on what their KPIs are. And then what I mentioned on stage is you cannot talk about one size fits all when it comes to airports. So we've had a lot more success with international airports, specifically across Europe, that have been privatized and, as most of your listeners know, private organizations have a much higher incentive to invest in technology and become more competitive to appease the public markets or their shareholders, versus public entities, which is the case in North or I should say, us airports not necessarily North American airports, because in Canada there's quite a bit of privatization going on as well, because in Canada there's quite a bit of privatization going on as well. So the question becomes what is the incentive for US airports that are usually part of counties or cities to actually care about digital transformation and enhancing the passenger experience? At the end of the day, people will show up at the SFOs, the LAXs or the MIAs to board their flights and come back home, regardless of how innovative they are, because their hubs and your choices are limited. So I think the ownership structure, at least for US airports, is a hindrance in digital transformation and becoming more innovative.
Speaker 1:Transformation and becoming more innovative. Like every time Miami-Dade wants to test out a new technology, if it's above a certain dollar threshold, they have to go through an RFP, very tenuous, time-consuming process which doesn't really allow them to churn new technologies out and test them and implement them as quickly as a private entity could. So again, I think you have to put airports in their respective geographies and look behind the scenes at what their incentive KPIs are to become more innovative and digitally centric, and the US at least. The ownership structure doesn't necessarily work in the airport's advantage. Having said that, there are a few airports that have found creative ways to test out new technologies. Pittsburgh, for example, with Christina's leadership, I think, has done an incredible job. Cincinnati Airport, with Brian Cobb's leadership has done an incredible job. So some people are moving the needle, but I would say, compared to international airports, specifically European airports, it's incremental tech adoption versus exponential.
Speaker 2:Really interesting. And one other thing I wanted to highlight too, given that I have the opportunity to speak to you here and our listeners are going to be intrigued to know from your perspective what are some of the big trends that are happening in travel and technology and where the startup space is headed. And one of the things I wanted to make sure that we covered together. Moving past, obviously the session and the airports and obviously aviation, a big reason we're here but is AI. And the reason I want to talk about AI is because we're very much living through this dot-com moment and as I sit here having the conversation with you and look at the booth like over your shoulder is everyone is talking about ai, but what does it mean for loyalty? It's like every booth has ai, and it just so reminds me because we're of a similar age and so we lived through the dot com.
Speaker 2:Uh, so it was that rush to put a dot com on everything, and there's a rush to put ai on everything, and I know you have some strong views on this topic. I know where we have our ai summit happening later this year, which is all about how AI is transforming travel. There's many great examples of that. But you have a slightly contrarian view, if I can say it like that, about AI, because you see a lot of companies that are coming in and pitching you and saying we're an AI travel business, so give us your overview on AI and travel and where we're at at the moment overview on AI and travel and where we're at at the moment.
Speaker 1:So there's no doubt that we're going through a platform shift that will impact how we live our lives, both personally and professionally, by having access to agentic solutions that can take care of very minuscule tasks that we hate doing every day and very complex tasks that we're not capable of doing ourselves. And all these solutions are going to become available both at the corporate level and personal level, in the coming months and years, and some have already become available.
Speaker 5:A great example in the travel industry is chatbots when it comes to customer service.
Speaker 1:they've become extremely efficient in answering repetitive and, I would say, non-complex questions on behalf of airline customers, hotel customers, with 95% 97% accuracy. Having said that, for us because, as you said, I have lived through the dot-com days and we saw that bubble grow very rapidly and burst overnight. Mind you, some of the dot-com companies have basically remained relevant and have scaled and are doing quite well, but they are one out of a million. So there is definitely a parallel when it comes to looking at investment opportunities today, not just in travel but across every single industry, and when a startup comes and says they have a Gen AI affiliated solution and they're not Gen AI native, they're not solving your problem by building sort of on top of a large language model and going at it from that angle on day one. But they had a solution and now they're saying we're adding some Gen AI angle to it.
Speaker 1:99% of the solutions we see from that angle are it's hot air, right, but the ones that really started their company with large language models in mind natural language processing, machine learning and going after real B2B problems are the ones that we're looking at and investing in and they happen to be the minority solutions we come across today, not the majority in terms of numbers. So I think you have to take everything with a grain of salt, knowing that this platform shift is going to change how business is done, how we run our personal lives. But don't get caught up in the noise and there's still plenty of time to make investments and hopefully right the Gen AI wave in the coming years. And you know we're definitely not rushing into it today. We're watching closely, we've made some bets and we'll continue to make more bets, but we're being cautious about who we're backing and why we're backing them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I'm sure you just get so many pitches that start with, we're an AI-first business now, and this is the opportunity I know you went. Also, amir mentioned to me that most of the startups that you also see have an AI slide, so obviously AI is a hot topic and will continue to be for many reasons, and, as you highlighted it, ai first business are going to get so far ahead of other companies, and there will be Amazons amongst that, but there's going to be web vans as well. So that's why I was keen to get your take on that, because you really sit at the forefront of innovation, and so when someone like you is being suspect around, you know investing in AI or just being very careful. I think obviously it's a wise strategy, but nevertheless, you guys are active in this space.
Speaker 2:The other thing I want to talk about, too, is that, when we look at big developments within the travel industry, we're here at an aviation festival, of course, and so that is an industry that's continued to be ripe for innovation. Knowing you work with airports and airlines, what are some of the other big focus areas for you that you guys are at Plug and Play, looking to invest in or seeing companies that are really scaling. What stands out to you as kind of the big trends in travel?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So let me combine that with what we see happening as far as generative AI solutions are concerned. So we tend to focus on business-to-business software solutions and, when it comes to implementation of Gen AI native solutions, anything that's more back office oriented, meaning how can you make a corporation more efficient in their back office? An example I gave during our session was accounting that is ripe for implementation of, I would say, gen AI agents that could actually run through number crunching and reporting and not needing 15, 20 people to do that, and compliance legal services contracting and compliance legal services contracting. These back office solutions that I think Gen AI today can actually tackle, and very efficiently, are areas we're very much focused on. I would say there are certain sparks on the customer-facing side. We talked about chatbots and customer service, but they are in their infancy and most Gen AI solutions today, dan, they tend to be more of a cost saving and operational efficiency measures in the context of corporations. What I'm truly excited about is when these Gen AI solutions become revenue generating solutions on behalf of corporations.
Speaker 1:So think of anything that has to do with marketing spends on behalf of airlines.
Speaker 1:Right now, it's more of a spray and pray approach, you know.
Speaker 1:Let's just throw dollars in search engines and hope that, you know, there'll be somewhat of a conversion rate in people clicking on our ads and coming to our website and booking something.
Speaker 1:There's really no ROI on the marketing spent when it comes to airlines and it's very hard to measure. So we actually backed a company called Zitlin out of Switzerland, and what they've done is actually tie a Gen AI solution to the marketing campaigns of airlines, with a direct impact on knowing exactly what the ROI of that dollar spent is, while reaching the right audience by utilizing data sources that have never been utilized before when it comes to marketing departments of airlines, and the results have been incredible. So if I had to generalize back office solutions that could replace teams of 20, 30, 40, 50 people down to, let's say, four or five people with 99% accuracy, those are things we're very much focused on at the B2B side when it comes to Gen AI, slowly we're looking at more front office solutions that actually are focused more on revenue generation than operational efficiency, and I think you're going to see more and more of those solutions coming online in the coming years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's exciting and this is where I always follow what you guys are doing, because you are certainly someone that's in the know. But also, when you're working with corporate and you're working with startups, you can really see the trends that are shifting and what's going to happen in the next. You know two to three years of our business and industry because a lot of those larger players they're they're very much planning for the long term and the startups you know they. It's one of the challenges for startups to work with larger companies is are they funded, Are they going to be around and, like you, want that trust and confidence and so being part of your network ensures that success and gives them the support that they need, most importantly, in some of the areas that they don't have. So I'm a huge advocate for a plug and play. I still wish we had the opportunity to do that corporate program, but I'm thrilled to be an advisor.
Speaker 2:Obviously, it's great to be your friend and know you, Amir, and have the time Same here. Yeah, have the time on the session yesterday on the panel. But, yeah, I just want to say thank you so much for making the time for this. I want to make sure all of our listeners can connect with you. You kindly gave your email, yes, so obviously they can send you an email. They can check out, plug and play, any other ways that we should make sure that people know to connect with you guys.
Speaker 1:I think a great way is yourself.
Speaker 1:So, uh, dan is a close friend of our travel practice and, uh, anything you guys need from plug and play, he's a great conduit, although I don't want to bombard him with requests.
Speaker 1:But, uh, again, my email is Amir at PMPc plug and play tech center acronymcom, and I would love to hear from you guys. Just one more point, dan you did mention that the travel industry, or the airport industry, tends to be a little bit of a lagger when it comes to tech adoption. I think what our airport partners at Plug and Play at least appreciate is the fact that we're active across 20 different industries so brand and retail, then e-commerce, fintech, mobility, energy so, although they find a lot of value in the travel technologies that we bring to their attention, they find equal value in what the leaders in other industries are adopting and bringing that home and then applying those technologies inside airports or airlines or hospitality groups. So having this visibility into what's happening across other industries, I would say is actually just as valuable as understanding what's happening globally in the travel industry, and that's what our environment provides to our corporate partners.
Speaker 2:That's fantastic. Well, I know you guys keep going from strength to strength, so I know I'm going to wish you every success. You don't need that from me, but it's happening anyway and I certainly look forward to keeping in touch and seeing you at the next summit you guys are hosting. I'm looking forward to visiting you again in San Francisco and just keeping in touch with you, amir. So definitely also check out Amir on LinkedIn as well, because he posts fairly actively and you'll see some of the updates there and I know that's one of the ways that many of us are all connected. So definitely connect with Amir on LinkedIn and thanks again for joining us. Really looking forward to keeping in touch.
Speaker 1:Appreciate it.
Speaker 2:I now have the pleasure to introduce you to an old friend, someone I've known in the industry for many years. As soon as I think of Allianz let's say it like the French do Tom Trotta comes to mind. He is the vice president of sales in North America and clearly has an interest in the aviation space. But this guy's at every big travel conference. So it's great to see you again, tom, and welcome to Travel Trends. Great to see you again, tom, and welcome to Travel Trends.
Speaker 10:Great to see you again, dan, awesome.
Speaker 2:So tell everyone where you're based and, for the few people that don't know, allianz, tell everyone a bit more about what you guys do.
Speaker 10:Sure. So I currently live in Richmond, virginia, where our US headquarters is for travel and event insurance. We report up to a big office in Paris and then the ultimate mothership company is in Munich, germany. So Allianz handles all kinds of insurance, but we specialize in travel insurance and event ticket insurance. So you think American Airlines, marriott, hotels, ticketmaster we're there at the end of the funnel and that's a big part of our electronic and online presence. But we also handle many travel agencies, tens of thousands of travel agencies, every AAA club across America, and also cruise lines. I'm about to ink our 10th cruise line.
Speaker 2:Oh congrats.
Speaker 10:So yeah, hopefully that's coming through in a docusign soon.
Speaker 2:That's awesome.
Speaker 10:But, yeah, we take care of customers all around the world. We tap into other divisions of Allianz care of customers all around the world. We tap into other divisions of Allianz that provide health insurance around the world. So we piggyback on their contracts and we have direct billing into hospitals all around the world. So our customer assistance teams which is all in-house, we don't outsource that can take care of you and then, if you're in a hospital, have a claim situation, we can actually direct pay the hotel. So you don't outsource that can take care of you and then, if you're in a hospital, have a claim situation, we can actually direct pay the hotel.
Speaker 2:So you don't even have to go out of pocket and then come back to us for claims Interesting and this is the first time that Tom's been on Travel Trends and those number of questions. I'm keen to ask you to understand the business and the model and how you approach being here in an event like this, because usually we'd see each other at Focusrite. I know you guys are very active at Focusrite, for all the right reasons. It's a fantastic industry conference and so we get to catch up there, but this is our first time at AFA. Tell us a little bit more of what brought you to this event.
Speaker 10:Sure. So you know, we partner with 30 airlines around the world. In the US, some of the biggest ones American Delta, jetblue, alaska, hawaiian Legion so a lot of our partners are here. Went out to dinner last night with a few partners, but of course there's other prospects that are here. So I used to chase you down at conferences. I'm here to, but also to listen and to learn right from the experts within the industry keep up with trends and then figure out.
Speaker 10:what do we have to do to pivot either on a technology front or coverages and assistance? How can we help airline partners and other partners stay ahead of the game and help their customers while they're traveling?
Speaker 2:Got it Okay. It makes total sense for you to be here, certainly for all the partnerships and networking. You mentioned about staying atop of the trends, and that's obviously the big theme of our show, and I'm genuinely interested to know what highlights you've had from the conference so far. I mean, we're sitting here, um, kind of the middle part of day two. Um, there's been a number of really great keynote sessions and and then panels and different breakouts. What has been some of the interesting insights that you've learned here at the conference?
Speaker 10:yeah, well, listening to how people are utilizing ai for things you never think of sure ground handling all kinds of things.
Speaker 10:And then talking to them and tell them how we're utilizing AI, and the biggest place for us is in claims processing. So we are training AI on our coverages one by one, and then the tools that we need, the backup that we need to process a claim, and 40% of our claims are now being processed by AI and we can literally pay a claim within six hours of receiving the documentation we need for the portions that we've trained it on. If AI tells us that a claim isn't there to be paid or something's wrong with it, we send it to a human. We do not let AI deny any claims, but it has helped our processing, our speed, our accuracy and also that's one of the pieces of new innovation we have that I need to get out to prospects and partners. So some of that also goes around proactive benefits.
Speaker 10:So if you think travel delays, you're at the airport, flight's just been delayed, you're not a happy camper If you've purchased our coverage and we have this information from the airline, which we are rolling out with airlines right now. We're tracking any flight changes rolling out with airlines right now. We're tracking any flight changes. And also then, when we know there's a, say, a two hour delay. If we have $150 of coverage, we'll just send you $75 and ask you how you would like it right then and there. So we're not gonna make you happy but we're gonna make you a little less unhappy and, and you know, make the, you know buy your lunch, beverages, whatever you want at the airport and then say it turns into an overnight delay. We've already opened the claim for you so you can claim that other half if you have a hotel bill or something else that you know you've incurred during that delay. So again, we're trying to use technology information that's available with our partners and get it relief to customers as fast as possible.
Speaker 2:Now, the travel insurance industry is massive. Right, there's a number of big players you guys are one of the biggest in this space and travel agencies rely on selling travel insurance as well because the commissions they can generate from that. But ultimately it's in the best interest of the consumer to have travel insurance. And Tom was teasing us because our flight was delayed. He's like, oh, you should have bought travel insurance for that.
Speaker 2:And the reason I'm asking this question is because there's a number of companies that have all of a sudden gotten into the space, like Protect Group is an example, who yeah, okay, just joking, but they're not an insurance company. But they're not an insurance company. They exist in this world of you know, cancel for any reason, this new kind of wave of fintech that's occurring. So I'm going somewhere with this question, which is when you start to see those players come into the marketplace and obviously the traditional travel, the traditional insurance companies are recognizing there's a consumer demand for those types of products. Hence why you said about buying insurance for flight delays or interruptions, that kind of thing. What I'm getting to is like, what are some of the innovations that you guys have been focusing on in travel insurance that might be interesting for our listeners to understand how your business continues to evolve to meet customer needs.
Speaker 10:Okay, so I'll talk about us. I will not talk about others. So, first of all, we are regulated by every country where we operate and in the US we have to file insurance in all 50 states and the District of Columbia, etc. And if there are any complaints, you know we handle them. Separate from that, though, we were one of the original fintechs because we integrated the first APIs with an airline, the first with a major hotel chain, the first with a ticketing company. So we're marrying up our true policies, our true coverage.
Speaker 10:We answer the phones Some people don't even have a telephone number and we're building that end-to-end. And we survey our customers every week, after every point of sale so online, offline phones, claims, etc. And we're finding out where did we meet your expectations, where did we exceed it and where do we fall short and where do we have to fix things. So we don't need competitors to push us. Honestly, we're our own worst critics and we've got people across the company that are just focused on this. And then what's the outcome of that? Do we need to build a new product, have a new filing, improve our technology? One example I'll give you is we were the first insurance company, travel insurance company to have an online claims portal and thank God we had it when COVID hit.
Speaker 10:Sure To handle the volumes, et cetera. But we found some pain points right. We found some places we could be more efficient. And the other thing is people want to know what the status of their claim is, Where's my payment Right. So we built it initially just one way in. Now we re-engineered it so we're sending information out and having it available to people that have claims with us so that they know their status and how fast they're going to get paid.
Speaker 2:Got it.
Speaker 10:So we're trying to innovate really just for us and our partners to increase the level of expertise and customer service that they expect from us.
Speaker 2:Got it. No, it's really interesting and I clarified a number of points there which I appreciate you sharing, because we've not done anything specific on travel insurance, and this is where you know, having someone like yourself with the depth of experience to really kind of demystify travel insurance. The other thing you mentioned that I just wanted to call out too is the different verticals. So we're here for aviation. You mentioned, like your 10th cruise partner. What are kind of the big verticals for you? How big is aviation? As an example, how do the different sectors stack up for Allianz?
Speaker 10:Yeah, so I can't divulge some of that, this non-public information. But aviation is huge just because of the volumes of our partners. On the cruise line side we're smaller because we at this point mainly have the boutique and luxury and Ritz-Carlton's as a Mars of the world. So we're a little smaller there, but still very important. And the other piece is on the travel agent side. I mean AAA across all their clubs is a huge piece of travel agency business. They, across all their clubs is a huge piece of travel agency business. We're preferred with all the consortia. We have tens of thousands of small travel agents, independent contractors, advisors, and we treat every one of them with the best technology. So we don't have an API with travel advisors on the smaller end, but we have a tool for them that they can use on their phones nowadays. So it's really impressive. We have tools for consumers. We have a small B2C business which lets us kind of experiment and test and we sell a lot of annual plans in that space as well. So that's a trend that's up and coming. You mentioned CIFAR cancel for any reason. Ours is called trend. That's up and coming.
Speaker 10:You mentioned CIFAR canceled for any reason. Ours is called canceled for unforeseen reasons, because we have a few things that we exclude. We used to exclude pandemics. We no longer exclude pandemics, but we do exclude nuclear war, for instance, which obviously is going to ruin more than just your travel plans. So we have that available.
Speaker 10:But we want to sell the right product in the right segment to the right customers at the right time, and so we have 300 US products on the shelf that are available. We have filings. We can build new products off of. Every month we are putting new products in the marketplace that our customers and our partners are asking us for or think they may want to have. And then again we do our survey, we do our homework, we come up with new products and hopefully stay ahead of the curve and stay very large Hotels very small now, mainly because people think of travel insurance mainly for cancellations, airlines and such, and hotels are a little more liberal.
Speaker 10:But you know it's a growing piece of our business. We have Choice Hotels and their brands on the lower end and you know medium scale, and then we've got Marriott, which goes all the way up to Ritz-Carlton's. But we're in the Bonvoy app, we work on homes and villas, so we're trying to get into all of the niches. And then rental car space is big, mainly through OTAs, white labels with car trawler and the like.
Speaker 2:The one thing I want to make sure, though, is that people can connect with you, tom, and know where to reach out to, because Allianz is such a big company, and obviously I've met like about 10 of your colleagues and you've kindly helped me understand how everyone fits together in the organization. But for all of the B2B listeners out there that are interested in either following up with you directly, tom I know you're at all the big events and active on LinkedIn but tell everyone how they can connect with you and then what the best point of contact is for Allianz, for any of the travel industry partners that are listening to this and in need of travel insurance solutions the travel industry partners that are listening to this and in need of travel insurance solutions.
Speaker 10:So tomtrotta T-R-O-T-T-A at Allianz A-L-L-I-A-N-Z. Com, also on our website, allianz Partners. Linkedin is great. If you look us up Allianz Partners of America, you can see a lot of our recent posts and new partners Fantastic.
Speaker 2:Well, it's great to catch up with you here. It's wonderful to see you again, tom. You continue to go from strength to strength. It's great to see you having such continued success in the industry, and I certainly wish you all the best in the year ahead.
Speaker 10:Thank you, great to see you and good luck with Travel Trains.
Speaker 2:I now have the pleasure to speak to Marco from the Netherlands, who runs no Longer Lost. I Marco from the Netherlands, who runs no Longer Lost. I was chatting with him yesterday and I was keen for him to sit down and record with us today, because he has a really interesting startup and I wanted him to join us to be able to share his story. So, marco, welcome to Travel Trends.
Speaker 7:Thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Great to have you here. Tell us what brings you to AFA.
Speaker 7:We'd like to bring no Longer Lost that has become quite popular in Europe to the United States. Cool, and this seemed like the perfect opportunity to do that.
Speaker 2:For sure, yeah, exactly. Well, here we are having this conversation, so hopefully we can make more people aware of no Longer Lost. So let's tell everyone about the business concept, where it came from and what it is you guys do.
Speaker 7:Sure. We've based our solution on a unique QR code with which you can tag anything. That means suitcases, obviously, keys, but also pets, children with smart bracelets, etc. The concept is quite easy to explain. It is the easiest method possible for the finder of something that got lost to be able to return it to the rightful owner.
Speaker 2:So marco, yesterday actually gave me one of the no longer lost tags, uh, for me to put on my luggage. So tell me. I haven't set it up yet. I will um tell everyone how it works.
Speaker 7:So um the gadget. You get the hardware supporting the service's, say the luggage label in your case. You scan the QR code by means of the camera of your phone and you register in 30 seconds. That's all there is to it, if I find it, the finder scans the code and is directly, anonymously, in touch with you.
Speaker 2:Got it, and is there some reward for the finder?
Speaker 7:We've thought about that at the beginning of the concept. So good question. But we decided not to do that because we are hands off in the process in between.
Speaker 2:So it's done over, uh, let's say the idea of our website in kind of whatsapp kind of functionality, but it's something where we have no touch right, yeah, and I mean, obviously that is the uh, the spirit of being a good Samaritan Someone actually takes the initiative to identify lost luggage and reach out to the owner. And whenever I've been in that situation and when someone you want to give them some sort of tip, and most often they're just like no, no, no, no, like I was doing this because it's like good karma and just like paying it forward exactly, exactly.
Speaker 7:It's up to the um, to the rightful owner when getting their stuff back, to do something like that or not yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so how long have you guys had this?
Speaker 7:business. We've been around since 2016. It used to be called item lost, but they had a negative twang to it. We're no longer lost has a positive twang, so we decided to rebrand. Yeah, a few years back, um 95 of the business is business to business. So we have a website no longer lostcom in which the consumers can buy their stuff from us. But we white label for other companies like american express, jet, blue airways, etc.
Speaker 2:Got it the other thing I just wanted to call out for our listeners too, for those other companies like American Express, jetblue Airways, et cetera, got it. The other thing I just wanted to call out for our listeners too, for those of you who are on the website, the one thing that really stood out to me. So you have luggage lost, item lost, and then you also have person lost and pet lost.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and I'm a huge dog lover so I need to get this for my pet because I like terrified the idea that anything will happen to her or she'll disappear. But tell us about those two other concepts. Obviously same idea, same technology, same. But yeah, how does person lost and pet lost work?
Speaker 7:Exactly so. In the case of pet lost, we spoke to so many people that say, yeah, when my dog went straying off or my cat got lost, I never had a chance to really somebody could find him and they would have been chipped even. But the chip can only be read by a veterinarian, no one else. So if I find your dog walking along the highway, I just scan the dog tag and I'm in direct, anonymous touch with you, like with a suitcase label or whatever Cool. In the case of kids, it's smart bracelets that they can use anywhere from amusement parks to the beach, to whatever you want to mention. It works the same way.
Speaker 2:Cool. Yeah, I see there's like a slap-on wristband, so easy. I figured that must be for the little ones. Yeah, yeah easy.
Speaker 7:I figured that must be for the little ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the thing there is that, um, also the phone number of the uh parent or guardian is being shared so that you can get out of as a finder of the child. You can be in touch directly, got it okay cool, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:And then you mentioned about b2b and that focus. Clearly, that's a great opportunity for you to be here at this event with you guys focusing on uh b2b partnerships. Is it travel agencies like what? Where do you see the growth for uh, for you guys on b2b?
Speaker 7:the good thing with this solution is that it almost caters to any industry around. So our main targets are obviously travel and leisure, but also automotive. Imagine you you get your new car, you get two expensive car keys. We tag those car keys as well, make a nice little tag for the, the car dealership, with the name of the car dealership on it, obviously. And the good thing about it is that it is marketing that sticks, because if you know that it has a four to six as high chance that it will get back to you, you'll definitely leave it on the key, whereas normally, if you don't have that service, many people would take it off because they would find it ugly or too heavy, too light, too black.
Speaker 2:You know, whatever you want to call it totally, yeah, exactly, but, and so your business growth plans obviously b, b2b and B2C, but you, having like in our podcast, our listeners are mainly B2B, but for those people who are travelers just interested in having them, most of the B2B listeners are avid travelers themselves, of course, so they could come to you guys directly. So tell us a little bit about the pricing Cause I.
Speaker 2:Tell us a little bit about the pricing, because one of the things that stood out to me was there's free shipping on orders over £35, but that's obviously for buying the tags themselves. But yeah, tell us a little bit about the B2C model and how it works for people that want to just sign up and register.
Speaker 7:Sure, can very easily go to nolongerlostcom where they can order any of the type of tags that we have in store and we can send them across the world no problem whatsoever. Many of the consumers that order are or have been initially given a tag of no Longer Lost by one of the businesses. So, as I was saying, automotive, travel, leisure, but also insurance companies make avid use of our service.
Speaker 2:anything that gets back doesn't have to be paid out by the insurance company got it interesting, okay, cool, that's great, and then from here, obviously, we're in miami. Home is the netherlands for you, what does the rest of 2025 look like for you? Where are you headed after this? What is, uh, what are, what are your plans for continuing to grow this business?
Speaker 7:so we'll be at the World Aviation Festival in Lisbon, uh, portugal, in October. Yeah, uh, we're looking into a couple of other events throughout the year. We've already done a couple Madrid, berlin, madrid Berlin, amsterdam and it is really taking a hold, taking a bigger market share of the industries that I just mentioned, but also other industries and the bigger players there, that's exciting and for you guys.
Speaker 2:I know there's a number of people that operate within the lost luggage space or, specifically, companies that are here that help with when you've had flight delays, like air help and somebody's like, yeah, in your competitive set, who else do you see in this space and how do you see the space growing? There's there's so much, there's so much of this industry that's ripe for innovation, and this is a space that I think this like is quite exciting. So, yeah, I was curious to know who else is out there and and what your plans are to uh, to dominate the space good question, very good question.
Speaker 7:Um, obviously you have apple with the air tag right yeah, it's gps based.
Speaker 7:It has a battery that you need to reload once in a while, um, but apple is a totally different kind of animal in that sense the data of the users is for them. In our case it is for the business we do business with. When opted in, they can use it for marketing purposes, etc. Because I don't think I mentioned it before but the real three USPs or the four USPs of no Longer Lost are. It's marketing that sticks. I mentioned that.
Speaker 7:It's customer satisfaction. The customer gets something they really need and maybe even didn't even know existed. And it's data for the business. They can use the email addresses, et cetera. Next to that, for example, the biggest bicycle retailer in the Netherlands Gazelle, it's called used it for their bike keys and for them it's the excellent opportunity to surpass the retail channel 700 retailers they have in the Netherlands and being able to identify that end consumer at the end that literally buys the bike at the end. That literally buys the bike Right. So in that sense I think we have a model that stands out quite well from the crowd and is completely different than what Apple has with their AirTag. It doesn't bite. The two go very well together.
Speaker 7:One is inside in the suitcase. If your suitcase has been stuck as being lost with 7,000 others, you know because of the air take where it is, but you won't be able to get it back with our luggage label at the outside, at the exterior of the suitcase. We've had many examples of luggage handling companies that have been able to give it back to the end. Consumer rightful owner in that way.
Speaker 2:That's cool. I want to make sure. I know we've mentioned the website nolongerlosscom, but clearly you are on LinkedIn. What are the ways that people can connect with you and reach out for more details?
Speaker 7:Yeah, so go to nolongerlosscom. First and foremost, find me on LinkedIn.
Speaker 2:Marco Gons G-O-N-S should be ample opportunity to find me very easily fantastic. Well, it's great to meet you here. I'm glad we had the opportunity to record together. I wish you every success in the year ahead, with no longer lost, and, yeah, look forward to keeping in touch with you. Marco, thank you very much for the opportunity. Well, aaron, it's great to have you on Travel Trends. Thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 11:Yeah, thanks, dan. It's great being here, great to enjoy sunny southern Florida.
Speaker 2:For sure. No, it's been fantastic being in Miami for AFA. This is our first time, as our listeners have heard. Have you been to AFA before?
Speaker 11:I have not. Okay, so it's your first time as well. Yeah, I grew up in Florida, but this is my first time this far south.
Speaker 2:Okay, cool, awesome, and I know you're based in Connecticut, but we should make sure that everyone knows who you are and what you do first. So it's Aaron Bricker who's the CEO and principal consultant at Skyward Aviation Insights. He's based in Connecticut, but his team is all over the world, but tell all of our listeners what it is that you do at Skyward Aviation.
Speaker 11:Yeah. So, in short, headache reduction Right. So that's number one thing, but operational consulting for airlines and airline adjacent, so all the vendors that support airlines as well as the airlines. So my whole history, decades of aviation airline experience, just bringing that to bear for clients and we bring the specialty that they need. We don't. So flight ops, ground ops, tech ops, system ops, project management, cost savings, process improvement. It's really, and that's why I have to lead with headache reduction, because if something keeps you up at night, that's what we want to fix, and you don't know what it is until you wake up with a cold sweat in the middle of the night?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and tell us how you got into the space.
Speaker 11:Oh my goodness. Well, back in the day in ancient times, started as an aerospace engineer, worked as an airline engineer doing interiors, led the interiors department, then just kind of moved around airlines, moved from hub to hub doing project management and flight ops, fuel efficiency, got my black belt doing process improvement and then eventually I moved to New York to lead the project management process improvement team for an airline. And then, you know, things happened Eventually had the opportunity to try some consulting on my own last year, got the help on a big merger so I won't mention the names but was able to help and I thought, wow, I just I can do this. I've been doing it. Internal business development day I'll always remember. And then kind of started to do the everything reaching out and just finished an engagement in Houston with an airline. So it's fantastic to get out there and meet the clients, potential clients.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great Congratulations. I know you mentioned this is the first time you've been to AFA, but tell us a little bit what brought you here this year and what some of the highlights have been being a part of the conference last couple days.
Speaker 11:Well, as a startup, their startup zone was so beneficial I wouldn't have been able to have come if it wasn't for the startup and to invite some consultants to come, some of the team to come, so that was just fantastic the opportunity for them to help me grow into a booth. Maybe I'll be sitting next to you next year, Dan, that would be fantastic. I'll get to see everybody coming and going. But so the experience has been great, because getting opportunities to speak with folks, find out what their issues are, find out ways in which we can collaborate to figure out, you know, to solve their problems, and and the the spontaneity of it, uh, has been fantastic.
Speaker 11:So last night, just calling the, calling the, uh, the ride share. Uh, there was another attendee. They were trying to place a pin and Google and we're like, oh, okay, Let me. We. We collaborated on fixing that problem and we met in the networking zone today. So it was just like totally random, never would have connected with them and who knows what beautiful things will happen. So I really love the spontaneity of it.
Speaker 2:For sure. Yeah, no, I've enjoyed a number of the panel sessions. I haven't had a chance to attend too many of them because, obviously, the focus for us is being here and speaking to interesting people like yourself, but I've certainly learned a lot about the aviation field people like yourself, but I've certainly learned a lot about the aviation field and this is where we're going to be doing a deep dive into this topic. In season six of our podcast and in our AI summit, we're going to focus on aviation, and the reason I mentioned that is because one of the things I wanted to get your take on is some of the trends that are happening within the aviation world. So what are some of the specific focus areas for you and your business that you're seeing more and more companies seeking guidance on? What are some of the big themes? Ai, obviously, is always one big one. We can't avoid that topic.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, what are some of the big trends in your space?
Speaker 11:Well, just interacting and speaking with a lot of these software companies right, they're super smart, they're super engaged I mean, they're genius right in the software development space yeah, so many of them. What they've shared with me is how do they get into the airline, how do they speak airline? So that seems to be like how do they translate their amazing tool into something that can be operationalized? So I see that as something that is maybe the next step of something amazing. And then what I'm seeing is just disruption. So even my consulting firm, we're disrupting a little bit.
Speaker 11:I don't have a brick and mortar place. I'm a global pulling consultants from here and there. I don't make my consultants sign and non-compete. So if one of our clients wants to hire them, fantastic, please go ahead. So I'm hoping to disrupt this space a little bit, but learn from the consultants who have come before on the big, big firms. But maybe mix it up a little bit with some experience You'll see some gray in my goatee a little bit, but lean into that a little bit and find the solutions faster.
Speaker 2:Right, and you. When we just started recording, Aaron had a couple of his colleagues here, two of the consultants that are here with you as well, right?
Speaker 11:Yeah, fantastic. Yeah, we had two of them here. One doing financial work, doing project management, process improvement been doing that for multiple decades across airlines and outside. The other gentleman 45 plus years doing ground operations, setting up express carriers, working in the military. I mean, you can't plant a seed and grow that type of experience, so we bring that and you don't have to pay for that person all year long. So he's a great person. Ted's fantastic. Michael's fantastic.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Yeah, they seem like great guys and obviously you know the fact is, three of you guys can cover the event. You can make sure you divide up and get all the meetings in and attend all the sessions. Uh, that's great. And then what's ahead for you in the 2025, going into 2026, clearly you're growing your business. You're adding more consultants. You've got some exciting projects in the works, by the sounds of it. Where are you headed as an organization?
Speaker 11:Well, just partnering with organizations who may already have relationships with the airlines and aviation, seeing where we can help them as a, basically, voice of the customer virtual voice of the customer, because we've all been in aviation and airlines, we know that. But landing and working with airlines and the non-airline and going to their on-site so many things are virtual. I mean things like your podcast, awesome to be able to interact and reach across the stars, so to speak. But we will go and we will be on-site. So that's the plan is to be more with the customer and with the frontline team to figure out what their problems are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it makes total sense. Well, hopefully we'll bump into each other at a few more conferences in the next year. Focus writes one of my favorites in November in San Diego, oh that would be nice. Yeah, that's a good time to be in San Diego as well. Yeah, especially for us Canadians. But I want to make sure that people can find you on LinkedIn and also check out skywardaviationinsightscom. There's a button in which you can say you're interested.
Speaker 11:You can email me at Aaron at skywardaviationinsightscom. You can go to the website there's a little link and really send up a smoke signal. Talk to Dan, he knows me now.
Speaker 2:I'll put you in touch with Aaron. I got his business card. I got his phone number. I'll put you in touch with him. I got his business card. I got his phone number.
Speaker 11:I'll just text him, Right right and really, even if it's just a quick question, just another set of eyes, that just starts the networking process, anything and everything will get things going.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. It was a real pleasure meeting you and I'm glad that we had the chance to have this recording together. So, yeah, I definitely look forward to keeping in touch, and thanks again for joining us. All right, thank you, dan, have a great day. I now have the pleasure to speak to Andy Carnes, who has a fantastic Scottish accent. As you hear in a moment Turns out, we have a ton of things in common. We were chatting yesterday, so I was keen for Andy to join us for this special episode. So welcome, andy. Great to have you on Travel Trends.
Speaker 9:Thank you very much. Great to be here.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. Now tell everyone where you're from, because everyone wants to place that accent right away.
Speaker 9:So I am originally from Glasgow, or a small town just outside of Glasgow.
Speaker 2:Okay, and do you still live there now?
Speaker 9:No, I live. Funnily enough, I live in a country estate near London.
Speaker 2:Oh, no way yeah Okay cool. Well, tell everyone what it is that Ravel, the company you started. Tell everyone about Ravel and what it is you guys do.
Speaker 9:So Ravel is essentially a social network for business travelers, so we help people to connect in person when they're away from home. So when we travel for business, we usually attend the meetings or the conferences and then go back to the hotel room and work into the night and that's really bad for your mental and physical health. So what we do is we help people to get out of their accommodation and meet other business travelers who are going to be in the same place at the same time, so that they can go for dinner together or go and do exercise together or whatever they want to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it makes total sense. I mean, I spend half of my life traveling and I'm at a lot of different events and, to your point, even last night actually is a good example. We were sitting here on day two and there was after drinks, but no one's quite sure what's happening after or what's going on. There's private dinners, especially when you're new to a conference, trying to figure out your network and who's around. There's a lot of unstructured time that you are not quite clear how to fill. So I'm 100% on board with you that I just go back to the hotel and work. That's what you do. So how did you come up with this concept and when?
Speaker 9:So I was a management consultant for about 25 years prior to COVID, and I spent a lot of time in hotel rooms. My clients used to send me all over the world for meetings, workshops, conferences, and I just found that I was wasting a lot of time in hotel rooms or I was working 16 hours a day instead of having downtime and it had a really negative impact on my mental and physical health. So when Covid started, I found myself with a bit spare time like a lot of and decided that I was going to solve this problem of isolation during business travel, and Ravel is what I came up with.
Speaker 2:That's cool and Ravel, just so everyone knows. If you want to multitask while we're having this conversation, it's ravelsocial is the website. Tell us how you came up with the name itself. What does it mean?
Speaker 9:It was actually one of my co-founders who came up with the name itself. And what does it mean? It was actually one of my co-founders who came up with the name. I think R-A-V-E-L. Ravel is something Latin to do with travel. And then we did that cool startup thing where you remove the last value Make it hard for everyone to find you. So yeah, there's nothing cool or special about it. It's just one of these names that came up randomly.
Speaker 2:I have a marketing cool or special about it it's just one of these names that that came up randomly. No, it's actually. Um, I have a marketing background and I I love great marketing and a certain the one thing you always want to be is memorable, and after we spoke yesterday, like ravel, like I was like that's andy from ravel, like there's, for me it is uh, easy to associate with and that is key to branding. So I just um. So, anyway, I I actually think it's a great brand identity. I just wasn't sure what was behind it, because sometimes there's a you know an origin story about how you had two drinks at the bar one night and then I should make something now you said you've got a co-founder, so tell us where you are on this journey.
Speaker 2:Have you guys raised a round of funding? Where are you on the startup trajectory?
Speaker 9:We've been as I said, we started. This is a COVID baby.
Speaker 2:So what you're three years in, four years in.
Speaker 9:Yeah, oh, nearly five actually.
Speaker 2:Okay, you started right at the beginning of COVID.
Speaker 9:Yeah, so it was one of these things like, pretty much during the first lockdown, three of us got together We've known each other for years and the three of us got together we've we've known each other for years um, and the the three of us found ourselves with not much work to do because of covid and we thought, you know, we should just do something together. Yeah, and I had been brewing the idea for ravel for about 10 years before that, um, because, as I said, I spent a lot of time alone in hotels. Yeah, and as soon as I suggested the idea, the other two guys just jumped on it right away. So, yeah, we've been very close as friends and now we are close as business partners. It's a really, really nice situation to be in. We help each other out quite a lot. That's awesome.
Speaker 9:As for funding, so yeah, we raised some preseed money, um, just before we started to develop the app. So the first year we spent pretty much just talking to people, uh, getting feedback on the idea, to make sure it wasn't just us that had this problem of isolation during business travel. Um, and even before we had written a line of code, we we wanted to validate that we were going in the right direction. Um, we got a lot of really good feedback, some negative feedback, which we used to make the product better. Then we raised some money, hired some developers, built the app and then launched it on the Apple App Store.
Speaker 9:We don't have an Android app yet but, that's in the works.
Speaker 2:Well, I was on your website getting prepared for our conversation and I was keen to understand the business model. I know you have the option to sign up and become a member and you have events. Tell us a little bit about the commercial model. How would you guys generate revenue?
Speaker 9:So it's a membership. We have three levels of membership. So the bottom level is free and will always be free, so you can get a lot of value from Ravel without spending a penny. So if you are on a business trip let's say you're going to Nashville and you just want to meet people one to one, you don't have to spend anything at all on Ravel. You can put in your trip. It will tell you who else is going to be there and you can message them. Now for the lower levels of membership, we restrict the number of people you can connect with and the number of messages you can message them. Now for the lower levels of membership, we restrict the number of people you can connect with and the number of messages you can send. For the events, we charge for tickets basically to attend the events.
Speaker 9:We have some free as well, but generally free events people don't value them very much and they don't turn up, and you know so. Even if we just charge a couple of bucks for you know, a ticket for the event, it helps us to guarantee that people are going to attend, and if you have one of the premium or premium plus memberships, then you get a deep discount on all the events. And for us, events can be anything from we've just hired an area and a bar. Come along and have a drink with us, which is what we did here last night.
Speaker 5:Yes.
Speaker 2:All the way up to the rum room. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 9:All the way up to. We've chartered a yacht in Monaco Harbour and we're going to watch. Formula One Obviously you pay a bit extra for that one. But in between we do think we want to give people experiences that they might not normally have at home. So, for example, we will do chef's table dinners at Gordon Ramsay restaurants. So you can't do that as a solo traveler, because the table seats 10 people and you need to buy the whole table.
Speaker 9:So essentially, we provide the other nine people to share that experience with Got it, and we're trying to. At the moment, most of the events are in London because that's where we're based.
Speaker 2:We're a very small team, but as we travel and as the platform grows, we'll have events all over the world well, when I was looking at the membership options, as you mentioned, there's three the free tier and the premium, premium plus. It's 15 pounds a month. 30 pounds a month, obviously. As soon as I saw the pound sign, I was instantly wondering if most of your members are based in the uk, or is it tell us yeah?
Speaker 9:so we've got about a thousand members at the moment. I would say just over 50% of them are not only UK-based but London-based specifically. The rest are spread all over the place. Now, if you look at the membership options on the app, it can convert to your local currency. Oh well, okay.
Speaker 2:It's just the website that is. Yeah, I need to fix that. It's okay. Thanks for pointing out the flaw. Well, at least our listeners currency.
Speaker 6:Oh well, okay, it's just a website that is I need to fix that, it's okay.
Speaker 2:I just thanks for pointing out well, at least our listeners, if they're checking on the website, they're like okay, it's for me as well. I just want to make sure that.
Speaker 9:Uh, you're yeah I mean, it's a completely global platform, so you know you don't have to be uk based to enjoy it. Yeah, but most of the events today are in the uk. Yeah, but as we see the, where people are travelling to and where they're located, once we see bubbles of membership, we'll start targeting those areas for events. So, if you want Ravel to be successful, join up, that'll help the demand.
Speaker 2:What have been some of the standout highlights of being here this?
Speaker 9:year. For me, as with any conference, the highlight is usually something that you've not planned for. It's a conversation with someone that you might never have had a conversation with.
Speaker 5:Yeah, well said.
Speaker 9:There's a guy over in the startup area who is working on an AI tool for service management within the travel industry. So in corporate travel, if I have an issue, we're going to log a ticket and he's solving that problem. That's not something that I would have thought too much about, but we ended up having a good chat last night and I've made, hopefully, a really good friend. So things like that when it opens up your mind to more possibilities, or when you see a part of the industry that you didn't know existed I think that is the value of coming to something like this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no, exactly, it's those random connections you wouldn't otherwise expect to make that can make all the difference. It was like that. One conversation led to a business opportunity that justifies the entire cost of being here and the time invested in it. So, as far as your plans from here, obviously you're headed back home. Tell us what's next in store for you and the team.
Speaker 9:So immediately next we're in Miami. It's such an amazing city, so I'm going to spend a couple of days just taking it all in. I've got a lot of work to do, so I'll probably be on my laptop quite a lot.
Speaker 2:From the beach. Hopefully, I've got a lot of work to do, so I'll probably be on my laptop quite a lot From the beach.
Speaker 9:hopefully, I don't want to get sand in my laptop. I'm also Scotty, so I need to be very careful about the sun. I'm sure you do. So, yeah, I think, over the next couple of weeks and months. So getting the next version of the app launched and in people's hands, telling all my friends that I'm going to be on a really cool podcast and, yeah, just trying to get the word out that Ravel is here for people to take advantage of.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Well, let's make sure that everyone knows how to find you and connect with you and the team. After this, I know I've mentioned the website, so ravelsocial when else can people find you and connect with the team?
Speaker 9:so we are on, uh, the apple app store. Um, just search for ravel, it should be number one, if I've done my job right um um, I think linkedin is probably where I spend most of my time socially. We do have an instagram account, we do have a tiktok account, but given that our target market is business travelers, linkedin is really the place to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's cool. Well, I know we're connected on there and I'm sure a number of people will reach out as well, and I was saying to Andy so we sat down to record together that we had like 327 mutual connections and I was trying to figure out how could that be? How do we know so many people in common? But clearly you are leveraging the power of that network to build your own, so credit to you for doing that and also being a startup entrepreneur. It's one of the things. It's a hard journey and clearly you've got 25 years of management consulting experience, so you're well positioned to take on this journey. But nevertheless, there's always these unexpected challenges that come up and you're trying to raise money and build out your team, build up the technology, so credit to you for going on this journey.
Speaker 2:The Travel Trends podcast started during the pandemic as well, for very much the same reason that we wanted to actually focus on how traveler behavior was changing or had changed after the pandemic, and so we have been on a really exciting trajectory. But in many ways it emulates the startup story and I'm very committed to supporting startups, because I know how challenging the journey is, but how rewarding it is also when you start to realize your dream and that more people are becoming a part of this community. And all of a sudden you meet people and are, oh my God, you're Unravel. People see the Travel Trends t-shirt. They're like, oh, have you been on the podcast? And it becomes meaningful. So credit to you, thank you.
Speaker 9:And the support I mean. Any startup founder appreciates support. You know it means the world. You know. When people recognize the work you do and help out, it's amazing. That's awesome we occasionally see people posting on social media you know selfies with multiple people that they've met through Ravel. Yeah yeah, and it's just. It still takes me back to this day. Yeah, it's very powerful emotionally to see people enjoying the platform Totally yeah, yeah, and getting something out of it.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's great man. I'm cool. I'm really glad that we met at this event. I mean, we had a nice chat yesterday. I'm glad we got the time to sit down and record today. I'm very keen to keep in touch with you. I'm one of the things I said to andy I'd love to have him back for our ai summit later this year in october, so you can see how ai is transforming the travel industry and and obviously specifically business travel. So we'll definitely look to have you back for that event and certainly just want to wish you every success and enjoy your time in Miami. But yeah, great to meet you, andy. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 9:Thank you very much.
Speaker 2:My next guest has traveled by far the longest journey to get here. It's Irma, and she's come all the way from Lithuania and I'm thrilled to meet you, irma. Thanks for joining us on Travel Trends and being here at the Aviation Festival.
Speaker 4:My pleasure.
Speaker 2:Now, not only did you have an epic journey to get here in terms of your distance, but also to get into the US you need a visa, and Irma was just telling me that she had traveled to Iran several years ago, around 2016. And for that reason she had to go to the embassy and actually go do the interview and like. So it just shows you the complexity today of travel, like how much friction there still is in the entire travel process to be able to get your passport, get your visa documentation and then get here on multiple flights. But I'm glad you've made the journey. Tell everyone I know this is your first time at Aviation Festival America, so tell everyone what brought you here to this event.
Speaker 4:Well, the most key reason I'm here is to give a speech tomorrow, because I want to share some expertise that we are doing in our airline in terms of pilot recruitment and pilot retention, and I find it because I manage these projects and I find them really cool and effective. So this is why I wanted to come and share the ideas with the others.
Speaker 2:Cool and I look forward to trying a 10-year session tomorrow. This is, of course, day one of the two-day conference, and Irma and I chatted a bit earlier and I was keen to sit down and interview her because, as we have different perspectives across the travel industry, one of the things that's unique about Irma and her background is that she works in people and culture on the HR side and is very focused on making sure, throughout your career, that they have the pilots, they have planes and that businesses are able to function. So tell us about Avion Express, tell us a little bit about the company that you're working for now.
Speaker 4:Okay, so I will begin with bragging, because we are the largest ACMI operator in terms of narrow body in the world, in the entire world, not only in Europe, but the entire world.
Speaker 2:Explain ACMI, just for our listeners that aren't familiar.
Speaker 4:Aircraft Crew Maintenance Insurance. Or in other words, we just fly for other airlines. You just buy the ticket for Lufthansa, for example, but when it comes to flying, you board our plane.
Speaker 2:Got it Okay, cool. And where is Avion Express? You're based in Lithuania, but where is the company based? And I know it's a global organization? So how are you guys structured? Where are the offices?
Speaker 4:Okay, so we have the head office in Vilnius, lithuania. This is where I came from all this long way. Then we have AOC in Malta, then we have AOC in Brazil, then we are in the finishing stage of obtaining AOC in Mexico, and we recently opened another airline, avion Express Philippines.
Speaker 2:Got it Okay and because the name sounds so familiar, but obviously there's Avianca, there's an Avion is a class of MasterCard as well, and at least where I'm based. But so I love the Avion name and the obviously the Avion Express, the fact that you guys are quick and can deliver and step in.
Speaker 4:Yeah, exactly Thanks. Thanks for the advertising. No, it's good marketing.
Speaker 2:It's built right there into the name. No, it's good marketing. It's built right there into the name. So tell us a little bit about your background, though, how you got into this space, because clearly you've had a long career in aviation. So tell us a little bit about what you did before this that then brought you to Avion Express.
Speaker 4:OK, so many years ago I joined this small company by Avia Solutions Group, which was like a really, really new company, small company, and it was an aviation personnel recruitment company called AviationCVcom and I was like literally selling people. I was calling the airlines, calling the MROs, and just saying, look guys, maybe you need some pilots, maybe you need some engineers, maybe cabin crew, and yes, so this is mainly what I was doing. No, I'm just looking for the clients. And then I had a break. I had two kids. I still have them.
Speaker 2:That's great, congratulations, thank you. They're five and three, is that right? Yeah, that's right. And then, yes, I was invited to join Avian Express Very cool. And then this company obviously great that you're based in Lithuania. The company's based in Lithuania, I'm assuming. With this role, I mean, you traveled a long way to get here, but do you often travel for your role? Is that part of, like the….
Speaker 4:Yes, yes, I do, I do. I take part in recruitment events. I monitor them. Of course, I'm meeting possible partners for crew exchange or acquisition. This is what my position is about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so tell us a little bit about, I guess a little bit more about what it is you guys do, and specifically about the crew exchanges, because I find that part really fascinating.
Speaker 4:It's like, you know, it's like a field trip for the pilots. Yeah, yeah, of course the need for the business. Yeah, of course the need for the business. Well, of course we were established before COVID with far little aircraft and, yes, first of all we've been like a charter airline. But then, you know, while boiling in this pot of aviation, we noticed the need. You know that, for example, when there are high seasons for the airlines, and we noticed the need, you know that, for example, when there are high seasons for the airlines, instead of purchasing new aircraft or leasing new aircraft, recruiting the crews, taking care about all the insurance, they can easily just hire us, you know, and we just come here with our crews, with our trainings, with our everything, and they just sell the tickets on their name, but the passengers fly in our aircraft.
Speaker 2:It's easy like that, yeah, and how did you guys expand to all the other regions that you serve? Obviously, south America is a massive hub now for global travel, so you're focused, obviously, on Central Europe, but your global expansion. So where are you guys now with your global expansion? And what's next?
Speaker 4:Well, actually we are the first ACMI operator in Latin America. There were no one before us, and so we like, pioneered and we opened the ways for that Because, again you know, aviation is a seasonal business. For example, when we have summer season, which is a high season in Europe, the southern hemisphere is having winter, it's a low season, and vice versa. When we have winter in Europe, there is a busy time in, let's say, in Latin America. So this is just general geographical knowledge.
Speaker 2:Exactly Seasonality. And then, with your talk tomorrow, tell us a little bit of what you're going to be focused on. I know I'm going to try and make my way there, but tell us for our listeners that won't have the opportunity to be a part of it. What are some things you're going to be talking about highlighting?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm going to address. You know, the most painful topic these days for the airlines is how to find pilots good pilots and how to retain them. Pilots, good pilots and how to retain them, because you know it's like with all the walls and country walls open, I mean they can go work anywhere.
Speaker 8:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And they do. So our key thing is not only to recruit them, because it's quite a costly, actually process, but also to retain them in the company. So, yeah, I'm going to talk about these field trips. As I told you before, it's like exchange, like, for example. Again, you know, when we're having low season in Europe, our pilots don't have that much to do and they feel bad, you know, sitting on the ground, even though they are paid, even they are compensated. But you know, being a pilot is a part of life, you know, and most of them they dreamed to become pilots since they were four or five years of age.
Speaker 2:Yeah, count my son in on that too.
Speaker 4:yes, Okay, so maybe it's not too late.
Speaker 2:No, no, he starts in September going to aviation to become a pilot. So some of the questions I was going to ask you next is what the outlook is for pilots in this industry. Okay, it's huge, it's huge.
Speaker 4:I mean AI is not really going to overtake that really soon. Yeah, we, it's huge. I mean AI is not really going to overtake that really soon. We can be sure about that and you can be sure about it. So yeah, so this is the idea that when we don't have much work for our pilots in Europe, we just send them on a field trip to other airlines.
Speaker 2:So, when you talk tomorrow about how you recruit and retain pilots, what are some of the aspects that someone listening to this needs to be aware of?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's easy because, you know, for example, sometimes I do participate in interviewing the pilots, checking like their motivation and everything. And I remember I was talking to one pilot and he was applying from really big, huge Middle Eastern company and I said, come on, hey, why you want to leave this this? You know it's like every pilot's dream to get in there. And he said, you know, I'm just a number there, even though we have 600 pilots at the moment. Uh, still, you know, we try to to make it personal, uh, try to to get the. I mean to cater to the needs, to their requests. And the most important thing that we found that is working for a couple of years is empowerment and we allow them to take positions in the company except from being just a pilot and just driving the aircraft.
Speaker 4:It's very technical, but I mean they love contributing to the growth of the company and it really works. I mean they are so happy and they don't even ask for compensation for that. I love the company, I want to help it.
Speaker 2:That's great. Tell us some of the key trends that you and Avion Express are paying attention to.
Speaker 4:Well, again, I will just tell you from the perspective of personnel, but the trends are that aircrafts are produced faster than the pilots. Yeah, that's true, and this is why there is really like a global shortage and airlines, they're doing anything and everything just to attract new talent. It's like joining bonuses, salaries, days off and many, many things. So it's really getting more and more difficult for any airlines Like, the very important thing is to maybe to have a good name, a good reputation, to have a long history, which means that you know, if you survived COVID, that already means something.
Speaker 4:It means that if we are here today, we might be here tomorrow and even after one year, because you know everybody needs like some kind of stability.
Speaker 2:For sure that's fascinating. Well, it's very encouraging for my son. I'm going to message him after we finish our interview just to reassure him that he's made the right decision. But even when we were touring some of the campuses, they were all highlighting to him the 96% job placement rate and just the demand for pilots, especially in the face of AI. And I'm glad you mentioned that, because even a friend of mine had said to me your son does know about AI. Right, he's like. Of course he does, but, like your point, that's not a role that's going to be outdated in the near future.
Speaker 2:It's such a necessary skill and with the rise of passenger travel post-COVID, so many people are flying and they're adding more routes, they're buying more planes, but the critical is actually to fill them with pilots. The one other thing I thought was encouraging and I'm curious to know this is being raised by a single mom. It's always something I strongly advocate for my son, just for women in leadership positions in the travel industry. But when we went to tour some of the colleges, my son was so thrilled there were so many female pilots and they were highlighting the fact that they've had the most number of female pilots graduating and he was just so excited to see this. So, if you don't mind, I'm curious to know how, in your space, are you seeing more women come into aviation as pilots? Is it still mainly a male-dominated profession? It's still.
Speaker 4:Tell me something encouraging news. Of course I mean no. Of course we do welcome women, and whenever we see application from a woman, we cheer.
Speaker 7:Woo-hoo, a woman has applied.
Speaker 11:Let's hope she passes the screening.
Speaker 4:But I mean, yeah, because the thing is that it's quite a tough work. Of course, every pilot, when choosing this profession, they know what to expect, for it means that you might be traveling a lot. It means that you might spend your Christmas Eve far away from your family. There are lots of things, but then they are in disguise, you know, and this is what they love to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no, that's really fascinating. And then when I think of the companies that you work with, so give us an understanding of who hires you at Avion Express, like the airlines, tell us a little bit about, I guess, who your customers are and how you find them or they find you.
Speaker 4:Well, so our main customers are the other airlines, naturally, and of course we have some long-term clients and then we have some ad hoc clients and sometimes we also do fly like charter flights for tour operators. Like you know workations it's like really popular right now you know, to get all your company in two or three planes somewhere else to another country. So yeah, we do that as well.
Speaker 2:So are you often going into these situations, bidding against other companies that offer similar services? How do they procure companies like yours to come in, because obviously taking someone's passengers has to be one of the greatest responsibilities that you're going to extend the duty of care and everything that goes with the airline. So clearly a lot of due diligence goes into making decisions on partnerships. So I'm just genuinely curious of how the process works for an airline that is looking to have support with their capacity and are looking at different partners, like Avion Express, to work with.
Speaker 4:I think that the main bottleneck is the main like I don't know thing is the price of the aircraft, because we operate exclusively 320s and the price is really huge at the moment because, you know, it's post-covid, everybody's growing, so naturally the aircraft is very expensive. But we already have them. We already have 54 aircraft in our fleet and it's not economically wise for another airline to purchase a new one when it's like really expensive. So why not to just sign a deal with Avian Express? You know who will fly for you and we will just add to their fleet and add to their capacities.
Speaker 2:Very cool, okay cool. And then something earlier you mentioned Lufthansa. Is that an example of some of the airlines you work with today in Europe?
Speaker 4:Yeah, we work with one of their subsidiaries, Eurowings.
Speaker 2:Oh, of course. Yeah, yeah, I'm familiar. Okay, cool, that's awesome. And then, with you being here at the event I know it's the first time here in the Americas and you're speaking tomorrow, so there was plenty of reason to be here. Clearly, there's networking opportunities and learning opportunities. What are some of the other things you're hoping to?
Speaker 4:Well, first of all, I really want to share the experience because, I mean, I know that lots of airlines are struggling with pilots getting them and retention, so I really hope that my practice and my expertise will give them some inspiration and they will start using this.
Speaker 2:I'm sure they will. I'm sure they will. I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 4:Please make notes. It's really good ideas and, yes, of course, maybe I will find some partners for future years. You know who would like to take our pilots on a field trip or give their pilots on a field trip?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's great. Well, I want to make sure that people know how they can follow up and find out more information about Avion Express or reach out to you or the team. So what are the best ways for anyone listening to this to engage with you afterwards?
Speaker 4:Of course, Dan you can find me on LinkedIn. That's Irma Sadlow-Skaita, or just type Irma and Avion Express. I'm sure you're going to find me a blonde one Because we have two Irmas. Actually, my name is quite rare but we're such a huge company we have two Yermas in the company, Exactly.
Speaker 2:I know I was going to try and pronounce your last name and it's a lovely last name, but I certainly don't want to run the risk of but yeah, say it one more time so all of our listeners can hear it said properly Very nice, and, ermin, it's been a real pleasure to meet you. You certainly are full of positive energy and I'm definitely looking forward to your session tomorrow and looking forward to keeping in touch, and we're having our AI Summit later this year, so it might be an opportunity if you guys have some innovations to be able to share about what you're working on in that space. But I certainly look forward to keeping in touch and really enjoyed you being a part of this.
Speaker 4:So thank you. Okay, same here. Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2:I now have the pleasure to speak to Jack, who's the terminal manager in New York, and he we had a nice conversation earlier today and I really wanted to bring him into this podcast because he was giving two different talks today and I want to highlight what brought him here. But let's let's start first of all, jack, welcome to the travel trends. Great to have you on the podcast.
Speaker 5:Thank you. Thank you, Dan. It's amazing to be here, to be one of your guests, and especially in this amazing event that takes all of aviation and tech passionate here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks Van. We had such a nice chat earlier and you definitely have such positive energy and just a very positive outlook on what's happening in the aviation industry and you have a really unique role. So tell everyone first what it is you do.
Speaker 5:Absolutely so. I'm Jackie Ramos and everyone calls me Jack.
Speaker 2:That's awesome.
Speaker 5:That's great to make it easier and I'm a terminal and airside manager right now from Munich Airport, nj, and I've been in the industry for more than 15 years. I was previously in the airline world for more than 10 years at JetBlue Airways and also in Avianca. That's an international carrier and it's been amazing to be here one and two also to be part of the industry. That's very fascinating and also very amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and now. So Munich Airport, new Jersey. Because when I saw you and we were chatting earlier, I was like I'm going to Munich Airport in Germany in the summertime. Tell everyone the difference between those two. Obviously, one's in the States, one's in Germany, but Munich Airport is actually in New Jersey.
Speaker 5:That's correct. Munich Airport, NJ is the terminal operator of the Terminal 8 at Newark Liberty International Airport. We manage the entire terminal, so we oversee the entire phase of the operation at Newark for Terminal A. And then also we work a long time with our partners, with the stakeholders, with the airlines. We have five airlines out of the terminal where we have United, Jeff Lurk, Canada Delta and American Airlines, and it's a very busy terminal and also one of the most beautiful ones. That's why it's a five-star terminal.
Speaker 2:That's really cool, and so the idea of being a terminal manager. Tell us a little bit about that role. For anyone that's listening to this, that is new in many ways I am to the aviation space. It's the first time I've been in this conference, so I'm finding it fascinating already. But tell everyone a bit about the role and what it is you do as a terminal manager.
Speaker 5:As you do as a terminal manager. As a terminal and airside manager, we operate all the customers facing services. Let's say we provide the assistance to all the passengers traveling out of the terminal, coming into the terminal, also the concessions, all those restaurants that you can see, that you can find at the terminal. So we are the one, along with the other team, that we manage what it is inside and, at the same time, the airside. It comes with the aircraft movement, the efficiency and also the safety and the operation in the airside area. So, above all, we manage what it is inside, the landside and also in the airside and making sure that the customer has a pleasant experience when they're traveling in and out of the terminal.
Speaker 2:Very cool and there's such a specific skill set that you have to be able to navigate. And you're clearly in good company here at this event because everyone else here is in the aviation space and a lot of aviation enthusiasts. So tell us what brought you here. I know you had two speaking engagements this afternoon. We'll talk about that in a moment, what you cover, but what ultimately attracted you to coming to Aviation Fest, and have you been to this event before?
Speaker 5:Yes, I've been in multiple Aviation Fests before because it's the perfect scenario for any aviation leader to networking and also to get to know what is the new trends in the aviation and also to understand exactly what other countries or companies are facing through other challenges, their success and also what is the new technology that we can bring to our companies, in this case, to the airport and this is my second time in this one specifically, but I'm always being abroad to other conferences and for this one in specific, they were interested for my background when it comes to the racing, the in-flight customer experience and the passenger experience.
Speaker 5:They were looking forward to get to know more as a terminal manager perspective, how it's experienced in the terminal that's completely different compared to the airline, and also on getting to know more about the culture, the culture, development, leadership and for the new generation of employees, how, what we're doing as a leader and in our current role to keep people engaged, to keep all those agents that working at the airport for the airline, for concession, to keep them happy and motivated. So that's why you might see my energy, because I'm always fascinated and happy about it.
Speaker 2:Well, the other thing, too. With knowing the sessions that you were a part of, one of the things that stood out to me, and one of the reasons I was keen to have this conversation with you, is that when you're focused on the passenger experience, that's very much the way that very successful startups focus on the user, and how do you improve or decrease friction and increase the joy and satisfaction you have as a guest or a customer? And that, to me, is how you solve the biggest problems and make sure that you are positioning your business for growth and that people have great experiences. They want to fly through your airport. So tell us a little bit about what you talked about in your presentation. How do you go about improving the guest experience or the passenger experience?
Speaker 5:In our panel about the passenger customer experience, because everyone uses different terminology, but it's been the same and in our case, we make sure that we provide enough assistance when it comes to our agents, with the team that we have in place in different areas of location to be able to provide real-time customer support to those passengers traveling out of the terminal or coming into the terminal, and also the tools, the technology tools that we have in place that support that. So most likely we were sharing the experience in that first panel where we on how are we raising the bar and influence experience right now. So for me, from the terminal perspective, it's just like how we work hands-on to make sure that the customer have the support right there and also, at the same time, how we work hands-on-hands with the terminal operators, with the airlines, with the stakeholders, to make sure that we are all aligned and we can provide the same measures.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting, both panels were stacked, like the people that were presenting on both these panels with you, one of the things I was also keen to understand from your vantage point coming to an event like this. You mentioned networking as being one of the things I was also keen to understand from your vantage point, coming to an event like this. You mentioned networking as being one of the drivers. For sure, obviously, I see that as a huge benefit Learning from our colleagues and peers and people sharing like yourself here, and being part of the panel. But were there other things that attract you to Aviation Fest or specifically this year, that are part of the programming or that you either have benefited from from from already or, you know, looking forward to getting out of the next couple of days? I actually I know that you might have to rush back tomorrow.
Speaker 5:yeah, so today's the day to try and get it all done yes and well, definitely it's good to know the new technology because there's so many companies out here that have different technology and system to to provide and to provide improvement in the airport for the airport, for the airline, especially when it comes to data.
Speaker 5:That is very important because with the data, it's what we like reading data and getting data. It's how we are able to improve our customer experience and also the benefits of our customers when they're traveling and passing by the terminal. But at the same time, we were able to, in those panels, we were able to talk about that and we all agree that one of the main things for us to come to this event is to get to know the new technology what is updated right now, what is up to date, what is the one that's killing it, what is updated right now, what is up to date, what is the one that's killing it, and also how we can benefit our company and our organization in utilizing those to improve the customer experience and maintain the high standard that we've been putting out there.
Speaker 2:Cool, and then obviously you've come down to Miami specifically for this, but in previous years does the conference move from destinations or has this primarily been the hub for aviation festival?
Speaker 5:for this one is always been in it will most likely it's been in here, yeah, and there's others that they've been in in other states, but at least for this one is always, like, very fascinated by it cool because I know some move around and um, the clearly the people who come to this conference know each other.
Speaker 2:There's obviously a lot of people that work in the industry. They're used to seeing each other, and so the one thing I wanted to talk to you about as well is some of the big trends you're seeing in the world of aviation, both with your role at at with Munich airport, but also, you know, coming to events like this, doing speaking and thought leadership. What are some of the things that you're paying attention to that are kind of the biggest trends or bigger trends in aviation that you think will shape the customer experience in the years ahead?
Speaker 5:Well, definitely will be the way that we are implementing those technologies in the entertainment and when it comes to entertainment one, and also for the accessibility to make it more friendly for those disabled passengers that we have, because between having the entertainment, it keeps you to pass through what is the anxiety process of the toll that you have to travel, and then also it gives you additional tools for you as a person, for if you're traveling with your family, with elderly customers, with your kids, and those are the tools that you're going to find in this type of event, and then also when it comes to accessibility, so also give an opportunity for those customers that have special needs, so that they can find tools to help them to go through the process when they're traveling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting that there's a number of startups wheel the world, a number that are focused on accessibility. There's a company called TransReport, out of the UK that has worked with rail and with aviation. It certainly has become that much more awareness. But also there's a business opportunity there that, if you know, literally it's about about 10 of the population has some form of disability, and so a lot of people didn't travel because they weren't comfortable given their disability, and so this is where you know you could be you could open up to.
Speaker 2:I guess where I'm going with that is that like there's a commercial imperative, there's a business opportunity to be had by solving this problem. So it it's interesting you mentioned that AI obviously came up in our topic. I'm sure it came up in yours as well, what are you seeing as far as the use cases currently for generative AI in your experience running this terminal? Are you guys utilizing it in some capacity and, if so, where?
Speaker 5:Yes, you can see it right now because it's been implemented in every tool, especially when it comes to the touchscreen, that you have those touchscreen accessible communication tools that the airports provide for customers when they're traveling out. They want to know okay, what is the terminal that I need to go to? Do I need to take a shuttle? How long is it going to take me from here to there, if I need to take a shuttle from Terminal A to Terminal C, or if I need to, or how I navigate inside the airport, what is the amenities and all of that? And that's a great opportunity for the AI and automation to come through, because that way you have that system to give you a quick answer for any of those questions that you might need. And also, when you operate in a terminal there's multiple, there's a diverse group of people traveling that they speak different languages, so that also gives you an opportunity to have that translator in other languages as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the multilingual. I mean for me, the potential for Google Translate, even using the app, where you know you can scan over and it instantly translates it for you. The idea of like real time speech, which we've been on the cusp of and now we're more or less there. This, I think, is really exciting, especially for airports when you have people arriving from different places. You don't find the interpreter, like you just have it in your phone. And the other thing I wanted to ask you, when one of the big topics was robotics and automation and some of the initiatives that are decreasing the friction in airports, biometrics being a good example or use case of that what are some of the things you guys are implementing at your airport or preparing to? That might be interesting for our listeners to know how you're. This is more on the terminal versus, like the experience on a plane, but you know, just to get people through that process, which some people find, you know time consuming and frustrating, and going through security, and then you know passport control and no.
Speaker 5:Yes, I think right now what we have in the terminus, we also have the biometrics when it comes to the checkpoint when you're going through security, because most likely the airlines, they manage the other aspect, but we have the biometrics when it's coming to the checkpoint so that way you can have an automation through, like they can recognize yourself and then you can go through the checkpoint. And also when it comes to boarding as well, because then you can put your boarding pass to scan and also you can put your face on it and that can create the automation automatically. So that way you can go through your next step.
Speaker 2:Very cool, yep. And then for you, you're obviously an avid traveler as well. I have to assume that's part of the reason that you work in this industry.
Speaker 5:Well, you know that we're all in here. No one can say, no, I'm just here.
Speaker 2:No, we love to travel yeah, when you travel and we like to make improvement and also bring solution in the travel industry as well totally, and I mean, and part of loving travel is loving people and connecting with cultures and like, tell everyone, if you wouldn't mind, because I've obviously I mentioned you as jack, but you've got a really interesting name and an interesting background. So tell everyone a bit more about your background if you don't mind sharing that, because what I want to also ask you is what about some of your upcoming travel plans? But I think it's only helpful to know that in the context of where you're from and then where you're at, and then where do you want to go to explore the world.
Speaker 5:Absolutely so my name is Jackie, but explore the world. Absolutely so my name is Jackie, jackie and uh, but yes, I'm French and Dominican, so I was born and raised in Dominican Republic. I'm coming from, uh, from a on French backgrounds, from Paris, so from my mom's side, and uh, so I'm being in, I'm being all over the world, basically, and uh, but uh, yes, and uh, and that's why my, my, my beautiful accent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, you've got a lovely French accent.
Speaker 5:So and so, yes, but I was on. That's part of my background, so I'm being, and I've been, in the industry for such a long time. I went to the architecture school, I ended up being in the aviation industry, and I also have a great passion for the fashion too.
Speaker 2:So oh, that's cool and that's also evident into. So now, that's cool and that's also evident. I mean, uh, some of you can watch clips and highlights on our social channels so you'll be able to see uh jackie, dressed very finely in his nice blue suit and uh, um, but yeah, the other thing I wanted to ask you then was what's coming up for your travel plans? Where are you headed this summer? What's? Because when you work in this space, it's also great reminders I'm sure you experience as well when you actually get out in the world and know what it's like to be a passenger again and see examples of airports doing things well or airlines doing things well. So I always find that I just I'm reminded every time I travel just how much I love travel, because once you're in the industry like when you work in the industry you also need to remind yourself why you enjoy and love traveling. So tell us what you have planned next.
Speaker 5:Absolutely so this summer. So I'm gonna be well, this summer I'm planning to go to um, to italy, south italy that's uh, that's one of my favorite spot on in the world where, specifically, where are you going on?
Speaker 2:costa malta, oh, amazing, I've never been. Oh, it's beautiful.
Speaker 5:Yeah, you go, yeah and that's always uh, that's planned, that's a lineup in the plan, and also on then in the fall, between the fall, the winter. So also going to make a stop in paris yeah and in london for fashion week, because I love to see the new trends and the new what's coming around for the forecasting.
Speaker 5:And that also helps because, since I'm in the in the airport, in the aviation industry, I get requests from airlines to provide consultants when it comes to, oh, what is the new trend? The forecast. Because, since I know how everyone feels when you're at the airport or working for an airline, so I can provide some real feedback to those leaders in that industry so that way they can take it in consideration when they're building the new uniforms.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of the things that our listeners may not be all familiar with, but I think, jackie, you certainly are that our listeners may not be all familiar with, but I think, jackie, you certainly are which is when you're in aviation and fashion is the outfits that pilots actually wear were inspired by ships, and so the idea of being a captain and the way it used to work people would line up and you'd meet the crew as you're entering the ship because it would give you that same trust and confidence.
Speaker 2:The same reason why banks were such large buildings because you wanted to make sure your money was safe and you want to feel like you're secure when you go on a ship or on a plane. And so I had someone from jaylen, which they design clothing for hospitality, and I found it fascinating to get a sense of, like, what's happening in fashion. So, now that I got the chance to ask you this with, when it comes to transport now, is there any trends in? Because some, some airlines have fantastic, uh, airline outfits, uniforms, exactly, thank you, yeah, amazing uniforms is is there. Do you see any developments happening in the fashion world of aviation at the moment that are?
Speaker 5:yes, yes, I know yes, because, uh, there's some, there's so many new, uh, new startup airlines that are starting up right now and they're using new designers to bring, like, a more modern outfit but also more comfortable and usable, because you cannot come with an actual couture style when you know that you're going to be wearing that every day. So they are more concentrating to make sure that when you're wearing that outfit in your day-to-day work, when you're wearing that outfit in your day to day work, because you're wearing that for so many hours, so you can be comfortable during the whole time and you don't get any uncomfortability in your body. So that's what I'm saying yes, and when I say no because, at the same time, there's a lot of leaders that they remain a little bit old school and they want to go to what the basic concept of a uniform is. Yes, they can add some stylist to make it look like nice and modern, but at the same time, they don't.
Speaker 5:It's hard for some of them to to go out of the comfort zone yeah and I think that's when they're, that's when that's where they're lacking on it and if they, uh, if they are more risk, they add more risk to those. They will go higher and they will get great products that everyone can wear and everyone can really look out. Your airline has oh my god, I love that that uniform, even if the airline is not good at it. But if you have a good presentation, it's everything yeah, no, I mean, there was actually.
Speaker 2:Part of. The reason that the question came to mind is that there's I've seen a couple of people in full uniform here at the event, wearing their airline uniforms, and especially when it's like a bright red, it's just very striking and when you see a team coming together, it does instill trust and confidence, and some airlines just do that particularly well, particularly well. But in terms of your priorities and what you're focusing on going into, you know, 2025 and 2026, what are some of the other things in your role that you're looking to develop?
Speaker 5:enhance. What are some of the other focus areas for you, Jackie? Yes, for me it's going to be like the end of 2025, towards 2026, it's be on provide more support to the new generation of is provide more support to the new generation of, let's say the students like this new generation, that they are in middle and high school, and to promote what is the aviation industry, what is the offer, what can be your career tomorrow, Tomorrow, you can be a pilot, you can be tech ops, you can be an airport manager, you can be an in-fly and for next year, one of my main focus is to continue educating these new kids, these teenagers, because now this new generation is being very hard to get them very concentrated and motivated for the job that they're doing. They just go for the paycheck and there's a big lack of those who are really go on life by the mission.
Speaker 2:And Jack, the other thing I wanted to ask you I'm sure people listening to this are going to be intrigued to know more about your role and to be able to follow up with you. What would be the best way for people to reach out LinkedIn email? Where would people go for, especially people who have been inspired by your presentations today, that want to keep in touch with you?
Speaker 5:Absolutely by LinkedIn. So Jackie Ramos on LinkedIn and also I am Jack Ramos on Instagram. So those are my tools so you can see on LinkedIn more aviation and Instagram a little bit more of fashion, and then you got the combination.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's awesome. Well, it's a real pleasure meeting you. I'm glad we made time for this. I hope you get to stay again tomorrow, but if you do have to rush home, I'm just so glad we managed to capture this time together. But, yeah, great to meet you. I look forward to keeping in touch and thanks again for joining us no.
Speaker 5:Thank you and I appreciate that, and best of luck in this project.
Speaker 2:I now have the pleasure to speak to Arpad Sakal, who is based in London and he actually works in the search side, like the executive recruitment side within aviation, so I was keen to have this chat with him, to be a part of this special episode, given that that's an industry that is highly specialized to aviation. Of course, we did speak to Irma, who works for a software company, and she does people and culture and helps recruit pilots, and she was explaining to me that our listeners would have heard on this episode just how in demand pilots are and how difficult it is to recruit and retain that type of talent. So, arpad, first of all, great to have you on Travel Trends, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 6:Thank you, Dan. Thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker 2:For sure and tell everyone a little bit more about what it is you guys do at Cormus Partners.
Speaker 6:So we're a London-based search firm. We typically work above the director level, seniority level. We focus on the aviation and broader transportation infrastructure sectors, so we typically deal with the airports, airlines and related services companies. Basically we're based in London, but most of what we do is international or global. We work quite a bit in the Americas, hence we are here in.
Speaker 2:Miami, yeah, for sure. So tell me, is this your first AFA or have you been to other aviation?
Speaker 6:festivals no, I've been three or four times previously.
Speaker 2:Oh cool, all right. So what I mean? It's probably an obvious answer to this question, but I'm still keen to ask it anyway what brings you to the event Since you've been before? What brought you to the event here in Miami?
Speaker 6:It's traditionally been a place where a lot of people, especially from the Florida local community, come, whether it's airports, airlines a great place to meet, get to know people, catch up with old friends. I mean, that's the main thing that we do here and, of course, Miami is a great place for meetings externally as well.
Speaker 2:Basically, yeah, for sure. And then your specific area of expertise is in executive recruitment, and what type of roles are you typically looking to fill and what are some of the clients that you work with?
Speaker 6:So they fall into two. One is the sort of commercial space like finance, marketing, digital e-commerce, things like that, and also we work quite a bit on the operational, technical safety security side of things as well. Basically maintenance, which is part of the industry that is struggling to attract and retain people Got it Cool.
Speaker 2:And then, in terms of some of the trends that you're seeing, because when you're doing recruiting for these roles, I'm sure many companies are continuing updating their job specs with what they need because AI and technology and you know technology is definitely transforming this industry in so many different ways. What are some of the trends you're seeing in recruitment as it relates to aviation or the travel industry?
Speaker 6:Yeah, exactly Most of the needs, what we are seeing are on the digital side of things, e-commerce in particular. Airlines are trying to differentiate themselves, basically, when it comes to their offerings on the web as well.
Speaker 6:Basically, how do you make sure that you are utilizing all the touch points you have with the customer as well? So the best organizations out there are the ones who are not just trying to recycle people from other airlines, but those who are trying to look into the other sort of related industry, like travel technology, hospitality, things like that. That's what we're seeing, especially in Europe. There's an appetite to get people in who are not traditionally coming from an airline background.
Speaker 2:Right, and then, in terms of where you think we're headed in 2026, what are some of the things that you, as a business, you guys, are prioritizing or focusing in your growth plans?
Speaker 6:I'd like to do more work in the Americas. Hence we are here and I think what we are trying to do is, rather than trying to work with everyone, try to establish ourselves as the go-to firm when it comes to all things sector-specific. So airlines, airports that's what we are trying to do. I think the Americas in general is a really good place If you're here on the ground and build a relationship, one at a time. I think it's fantastic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. Well, I want to make sure that people can find out more information to connect with you guys. I know the website is cormispartnerscom, C-O-R-M-I-S partnerscom. I'm sure you're on LinkedIn as well. But, yeah, what are the ways for people to be able to reach out to you, Arpad?
Speaker 6:Probably the best way is LinkedIn. I'm quite active there. I write on a weekly basis and if you would like to reach out or drop me a line, please do so, because I'm in the business of getting to know you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Arpad, so he's Hungarian and his name is actually.
Speaker 6:I've never met an Arpad before and you haven't met an Arpad outside of Hungary. Is that right?
Speaker 2:Exactly. It's quite telling. If someone is called Arpad, that individual will be from Hungary. Yeah, and the other unique thing about his name is that there's actually a silent Z, and I'll say Z, not Z, because I'm Canadian, but it's S-Z-A-K-A-L. But I'm sure if you just type in Arpad into LinkedIn, you're probably a small group of people.
Speaker 6:No, there's only one Arpad worth knowing on LinkedIn.
Speaker 2:There you go Awesome. Well, I'm sure people will reach out to you. I'm certainly looking forward to keeping in touch, and it was great to meet you here, arpad.
Speaker 6:Great. Thank you for the opportunity Dan Thank you.
Speaker 2:I now have the pleasure to speak to Dalton Lane, who runs Laniap Aviation, and I had a chance to chat with him yesterday. This guy is 29 years old, he's a pilot and he also runs a business that helps companies create new airlines, which is like crazy, I mean. Obviously I didn't know that this existed. Maybe it didn't You're the first one to come up with this concept, but tell us a little bit about your background and what it is you do.
Speaker 8:Yeah, I don't know if I'm the first, but definitely a pioneer in the space. I hold over a decade of industry experience, from cabin to being a pilot, to airport operations, working kind of all aspects of it. And a lot of people come with the crazy idea of starting an airline. So I said, well, why don't I take that and make it into an actual business plan and that you can determine and get it into investors and determine the viability of it and see who's real and who's not five for me, because I really like his name.
Speaker 2:And, sure enough, I'm like Dalton from the Patrick Swayze's character, of course, in the original Roadhouse and his name is Dalton. I was just always the coolest name and you told me yesterday that's actually how you got your name.
Speaker 8:Exactly yeah, my mother was obsessed with Patrick Swayze and Roadhouse, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:So where are you based, though, Dalton? Tell everyone exactly, because I know you've been working in the aviation space for many years. But where's home for you?
Speaker 8:Boston, Massachusetts. Gotta love it. Gotta have my dunks every morning, right? Next there to Logan Airport Nice there you go.
Speaker 2:And then, what brought you to AFA? Clearly, there's tons of opportunity for what you do, but yeah, is it your first AFA?
Speaker 8:Yeah, this is my first time being here, so there's a lot of opportunities with different vendors and different people to connect, especially with the startups that I work with. A lot of them don't come with the experience necessary, so I'm able to kind of determine whether or not a lot of the software companies are who we need to work with, as well as other data companies, and being able to see if we can leverage that data.
Speaker 2:Cool and I know you've been attending a number of sessions and clearly there's a lot of networking opportunities. What has been some of the highlights over the last couple days of being here?
Speaker 8:I think a lot of the leveraging of new age data. So I was able to see some United sessions. I was able to see some revenue sessions and see how different airlines have gotten new avenues of revenue.
Speaker 2:personally, Very cool. And then, with your business, tell us some of the clients that you're working with. Clearly, one of the pioneers of creating an airline was Richard Branson with Virgin right. There's that famous line about if you want to be a millionaire, you start with a billion dollars, and then you start an airline.
Speaker 6:Yeah, exactly so.
Speaker 8:Richard Branson is great. He's very much an inspiration, I think, to many of us in the industry. We have a few clients, one in the UK that has looked into starting up, and then one in the US as well that I'm working with closely that is close to launch. So unfortunately I can't say the name just yet, but you'll hear about it in the next month or two, I'm sure. But I was able. Whenever he came to me, we took a police officer and turned him into an airline founder.
Speaker 2:No way, that's really cool. That's awesome. I guess you need some startup capital for Absolutely. Take us through. Actually, I'm really intrigued to know the steps. So, just give us a bit of an overview of what's actually involved in creating an airline.
Speaker 8:Yeah. So I like to kind of use the Southwest reference, when Herb Keller and Roland King wanted to start the airline and it was like Herb, let's start an airline, Roland, you're crazy, let's do it. So I figure out whether or not they're crazy or if it's actually a viable idea, first asking them a bunch of questions when are you going to start? What aircraft are you thinking of? What's available? And then kind of bring them through that and help them develop a route, structure, fleet plan and determining what's available on the market whether or not it's a lease or own for the aircraft, and then building out that business plan with financial projections. And then start looking at investors who's available in what region? Where are they able to actually get money from? Especially during COVID, a lot more investors started looking into the airline industry because people needed money?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, that's really interesting. So are these? Often you mentioned a police officer, but are they often entrepreneurs in other industries that want to get into airlines? What are you seeing as some of the motivations for why someone would want to start an airline?
Speaker 8:Some of them have family that have been in the industry and that's some influence for them getting into it. A lot of them are serial entrepreneurs that maybe work in tech space, for example, and then they are wanting to found this airline and they don't necessarily have the financial background of it, they just have the. I'm a data nerd and I just want to get into this side of wanting to start an airline, and that's a lot of fun to work with because I'm also a data nerd, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then when it comes to the aircraft, obviously that's a big decision. My son's taught me a lot about this because we've spent many, many days plane spotting at various airports and so I've gotten to know all my Boeings and my Airbuses and the different engines. And he uses FlightRadar24, right, I'm sure you're very familiar with that and it's remarkable, the access to information that you have. And so, when you think about starting an airline, what types of jets are you typically looking at, based on the fleet size and the capacity? Are these smaller, regional carriers, or are you talking big, wide body? What sort of planes are you looking at when you're starting an airline?
Speaker 8:No, I tell people you probably don't want to start an airline with a wide body. Is it being done in this world? Yes, it is. We just watched an airline global take off from Glasgow to JFK. Today they launched their inaugural Wild to see a double-decker 500-seat aircraft go between Glasgow and JFK Never thought I'd see it. When I'm talking to people, I definitely determine the region that they want to operate in and then determine their actual route structure, because the route you don't want that larger aircraft going on a market that's just not going to support it. So we're looking at your standard Airbus, your 737s a lot of the time. But sometimes we even get smaller. Some airlines just want to be a small little regional and that's fine, that's absolutely. If that's what they want, then we'll get them to those steps.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting when you see airlines and their journey, one that I was going to call out for our listeners.
Speaker 2:I'm based in Toronto and Porter is a fantastic Canadian airline and they started at the Toronto Island Airport and so they only had twin prop jets because they didn't have jets.
Speaker 2:They only had twin prop airplanes because they weren't allowed jets on the island hour duration. But because of their success, they then actually bought a whole fleet of jets and now they fly out of the main Toronto airport as well and they've built a really successful airline. So they found a unique niche and one of the other things that they do and I think this is just so clever it would be two rows of two, so it was never a middle seat and they would offer free wine and drinks, which was a main pain point for travelers as well. So this was forcing Air Canada now to also offer the same option because they didn't want to lose business to Porter. But it's just interesting when these strategies around airlines so I'm assuming that's also part of what you do is trying to figure out what they're trying to achieve the right jets or the right planes, and then the service and what do they want to be known for as a brand.
Speaker 8:Yeah, so you mentioned porter. It's a great example, I think. Um porter started with the q400 right and then they expanded to the e190, e195, e2. Now why did they choose that aircraft? Well, mostly because they knew that their range was going to be in north america. They didn't need anything super long range, um, but they knew they wanted to go the distance and Embraer gave them that deal that the A220 on Airbus couldn't give them. Or perhaps they might've gone with the former Bombardier CS 100, 300. But the deal was with Embraer that suited their needs for that, and so Porter was able to determine that. That's something that is definitely looked at in the startup is why this aircraft over that one. These are two competitive aircraft, but Porter was able to get the Ember a lot quicker and deploy it a lot sooner.
Speaker 2:That's fascinating. I figured you knew your stuff so you can rhyme off the exact makes and models. One of the things I've come to understand, too, is that jet fuel is one of the biggest costs, and so the more efficient newer jets are just a lot less expensive to operate, and so a lot of them can fly greater distances, opening up new routes, to your point about the fact that all of a sudden you have a Glasgow to New York route. There's all these niche opportunities that come up, just speaking about airlines and the ones that would be interesting for people to pay attention to. What are some of the other ones that you take inspiration from, uh, for your work?
Speaker 2:I know Delta is one of the. You know is renowned for their innovation and their company culture and their leadership, and and they have raving fans that just love Delta. And my only frustration with Delta is they're not part of my star Alliance. They're like they don't. They're not part of my star alliance, they're not part of One World or Star Alliance. They have their own loyalty program, which I get, but I want to be part of a global network, and so that's my one holdup. Otherwise, I love Delta. Tell us who do you pay attention to and use as best in class.
Speaker 8:This is a determination, I guess, by looking at, of course, for the big three technology-wise, a lot of the time they roll out these new technologies. I would say Delta and United are leaders in the technology space for airlines, so that's definitely something to look at, but Delta's strategy is very different. So you mentioned you don't have a global network. You do. Delta in Canada is WestJet.
Speaker 5:That's how they roll it out.
Speaker 8:That's their global strategy, whereas United has that direct partnership with Air Canada. So you see that rollout and it's two different strategies that both are working. And so you see that you obviously probably don't want to do American in Canada, but there's not really a true partner there.
Speaker 8:But that's something that I look at is what partners can you form with these new airlines and see that Bermuda Air is a great example out of Bermuda where they partnered quickly with airlines and determined that capacity and they're building up rather quickly and great. They're doing a good job doing it.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, With the clients you're working with. Just to give everyone an idea, what are the steps to engage and partner with you. So how are you finding clients? Obviously, you're here at this event and I'm going to make sure that people know how to connect with you after this. But, yeah, how do you actually get clients referred to you or bring clients into your world?
Speaker 8:So a lot of the time at these conferences, people will come up and talk to others and say, hey, I'm an airline founder. And then I come up and talk to them five steps behind and they go, oh, have you met so-and-so, they want to find an airline. And then I go over and talk to them and actually see how serious they are about it and what the reality of that is. That's the primary way. The second way is that I scour LinkedIn. I'm a big LinkedIn user. I think it's the best way out there, because you start seeing airlines first get founded digitally, where they've put out their space, and they start building this very uh, this website that's very short and to the point and cheap. And then I say, okay, let's, let's figure out how serious this is and let's build you something that we can actually get off the ground.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting. So let's make sure everyone does know how to connect with you and the website. Obviously, linkedin, dalton Lane, l-a-i-n-e. But yeah, what are the other ways to find out more about you guys?
Speaker 8:LanyabAviationcom. That's another way to do that.
Speaker 2:We're going to have to spell that out exactly.
Speaker 8:Lanyab L-A-G-N-I-A-P-P-E. I know it's a mouthful.
Speaker 2:Where does the name come from?
Speaker 8:It's a Creole French name, that's, to be able to take you beyond and bring you basically beyond service.
Speaker 2:Ah, cool, I like it, if you're receiving Lanyup service.
Speaker 8:you're getting it beyond that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Okay, that makes total sense. Now, I was struggling to pronounce it when we first started, but now that I understand it it makes way more sense. So thanks for adding that clarification in. But yeah, back to you on obviously there's the website and LinkedIn, Absolutely.
Speaker 8:Obviously, there's the website and LinkedIn, absolutely, and those are the two primary ways that I operate and I basically post all the time on LinkedIn about different industry topics and trends, definitely keeping in mind as the industry changes, which is ever-changing parts of the industry being able to kind of post my opinion in a very analytical way.
Speaker 8:I don't like to comment a lot on oh, so-and-so is doing a great job. I say so-and-so is doing this job because of X, y and Z in the numbers. It's very straight to the point. I'll try to keep the emotion out of it.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm definitely going to be following you on LinkedIn. I need to know more about the aviation space and I'm also very keen to find out when you launch this latest venture that clearly is under wraps at the moment. I'll look forward to that posting and announcement. So I wish you continued success. Great to meet you here at the conference and I look forward to keeping in touch. Dalton.
Speaker 8:Thanks for having me, Dan.
Speaker 2:I now have the pleasure to speak to Alex from Sigma Software. He actually did a presentation earlier today here at AFA. He is the vice president there, but he specifically oversees the aviation side, which is obviously the reason we're all here. I've got a lot of questions for you, Alex. First off, welcome to Travel Trends. Great to have you on the show.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for having me today. It's actually our second time during World Aviation Festival, after European One in Amsterdam. Glad to be there. Miami is good and amazing. Amazing weather, amazing event.
Speaker 2:Totally Amazing people. Yeah, and tell us where you've traveled from.
Speaker 3:I actually traveled from Poland and then to Zurich. From Zurich it was almost 11 hours flight, but it was very convenient. Yeah, it was a pleasure with SpiceAer.
Speaker 2:That's cool. Tell us a little bit about Sigma Software and where you guys are based and how this company came to be. Sure, it was a pleasure.
Speaker 3:So actually, Sigma Software is a technology services company, so we specialize in systems integration and custom and product development. We are present in more than 18 countries, 23 years on the market and more than 2,000 experts.
Speaker 2:Amazing and AFA. Have you guys been involved with this organization before? Given the fact they have events in Europe and Asia as well, is this your first Americas event?
Speaker 3:Yeah, first Americas event. We went to Amsterdam last year in one of our portfolio product company for ground handlers. They visited also Asia event, and so we've been to three main events now.
Speaker 2:So, yes, you have an idea what to expect by virtue of being at the other event. This is our very first AFA, as our listeners know, and we're thrilled to be here. As our listeners know, and we're thrilled to be here, and one of the things I wanted to do with this special event spotlight is bring together some of the industry leaders that are shaping the future of travel and aviation specifically, and also get a broad cross section of the people that come to this event. So, starting right there, what actually? I know you were speaking today, so obviously that was reason enough for being here, but what else brought you to the event, especially given what you guys do and the types of organizations that are here?
Speaker 3:Yes, that's actually a good question. I mean, we work with aviation and personally it is my passion, but we work more than 12 years now, so we are proud to cooperate with customers in Europe like Scandinavian Airlines. We also work with IATA and many other clients, but you know, north America was always our focus, so we definitely want to expand. We definitely have many technologies and many services to provide here. So basically, yeah, our main idea is to expand network and as well as to evolve is to expand network and as well as to evolve. I mean, every event is definitely evolving and, yeah, we definitely learn a lot.
Speaker 2:Well, tell us a bit about the talk that you did earlier. I'm keen to actually know what it is you spoke about and what some of the I guess the questions that came up as part of that, because I did a panel earlier and it's fascinating to see how engaged people are. So I'm also keen to know what some of the feedback was. But tell us what you came in to present on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, the panel was interesting and it was about digital transformation. Actually, this is our core expertise, I would say. You know, aviation is quite an interesting area because it used to be a traditional industry and not so open to innovation. So that's why it is very, very interesting for us, because, being a services company, there is a big benefit that you work with many industries right and, for example, with AI we worked even before it became mainstream. So we have a lot of use cases that we can actually reuse and we can actually apply them to aviation as well.
Speaker 2:Interesting, and so today you're on a panel with a couple of colleagues and I think some of the things you were getting into were digital transformation is a big part of my background, so I'm always keen to understand what specific areas of transformation and I have to ask you about AI. Of course, we'll get there in a moment, but, yeah, what were some of the main focuses today and, I guess, what were some of the things that the audiences were most interested to hear about?
Speaker 3:You know, there is always a topic about cybersecurity, Because once you start using AI and sharing data and collecting data, it's always a big topic because hackers are targeting personal data from passengers and airports and airlines. So there was a huge discussion around it. Another thing was actually real use cases actually of AI that works for airlines and airports. That was actually interesting to also hear from colleagues. And I think the third focus was about legacy systems. A lot I would say almost all of airlines are working with legacy systems and that is why we are here as well, because we work a lot with legacy systems. We can move them using middleware to cloud and step-by-step actually improves their systems. Interesting.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much for joining us on this special event spotlight of Travel Trends, all recorded live at the Aviation Festival Americas in Miami.
Speaker 2:I'm certainly thrilled that we've been invited back for 2026 and look forward to meeting more of you there and recording more of these really interesting interviews in a sector of the industry that we have not focused on yet. At Travel Trends, and as you heard at the beginning, we are going to do a special deep dive into the world of aviation as part of season six, which launches in September, and we're also going to have an aviation panel as part of our AI summit at the end of October, october 28th and 29th. You can register now for early bird tickets on our website at TravelTrendsPodcastcom. And don't forget, we do post clips and highlights from all these conversations on our social channels, so be sure to check out at Travel Trends Podcast on YouTube, linkedin and Instagram. Thanks again to the AFA team and everyone that joined us for these recordings. It was a real pleasure to meet you all and I certainly look forward to seeing you again soon. Until next time, safe travels.
