Travel Trends with Dan Christian
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Travel Trends with Dan Christian
Event Spotlight: State of Business Travel in Canada 2025 with Global Business Travel Association (GBTA)
Step into the world of global business travel as we record live from the Global Business Travel Association's (GBTA) Toronto conference—where industry leaders overseeing a staggering $345 billion in corporate travel spending converge. The business travel sector isn’t just rebounding; it’s thriving. According to GBTA CEO Suzanne Neufang, global travel spending has surged beyond pre-pandemic levels, projected to hit $1.63 trillion in 2025 and exceed $2 trillion by 2028. Despite early doubts about its future, business travel has proven indispensable, with face-to-face meetings remaining a key driver for cultivating relationships and fostering corporate culture.
Our discussions uncover remarkable transformations in travel trends. Day trips are nearly obsolete, replaced by longer stays of 3-5 nights, as 40% of business travelers prioritize productivity and better work-life balance. Additionally, "blended travel"—combining business with leisure—has soared, with a 60% rise in adoption compared to pre-pandemic times. We also explore Toronto’s Exhibition Place, a 192-acre hub hosting over 2,100 annual events, as General Manager Laura Purdy highlights its sustainability leadership through LEED certification, renewable energy initiatives, and robust waste diversion programs that make eco-friendly meetings a reality.
Heather Neale from Destination Toronto paints the city as a global business hub, celebrated for its multicultural vibrancy and connectivity. With 53% of residents born outside Canada and direct flights from 180 destinations, Toronto offers a unique blend of international appeal and North American convenience. Whether you’re organizing corporate events, managing travel programs, or curious about the forces driving global mobility, this episode offers valuable insights into an industry that builds connections and drives innovation across borders. Don’t miss this behind-the-scenes look at the power of bringing people together.
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1.43 trillion is what we spent as a global industry back in 2019. I think what we see now is that we are expecting, under that forecast, to reach this year a high of 1.63 trillion US dollars and that by 2028, we usually do a five-year forecast, including the current year that we're in. Last year it would have been through 2028 that we would surpass 2 trillion US dollars.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone and welcome to Travel Trends. This is your host, dan Christian, and today we have a special event spotlight shot right here in my hometown, in Toronto, actually at Exhibition Place in the Automotive Building. I have the opportunity to speak to three extraordinary industry executives that came together for the GBTA event here in Toronto, canada, which is the Global Business Travel Association, and the CEO, suzanne Newfung, who we'll be speaking to, first flew in from New York to be here for this event. But GBTA Canada is part of this global business and they have this incredible event they put together that I had a chance to experience for the very first time this year and, after these interviews, I spent the next couple of days networking with all of the executives that came together for this event and you could just feel the energy and the enthusiasm, because this is where business travel executives gather to discuss the latest trends, challenges and opportunities within the business travel sector. And for many of our listeners, you may know that my background and where I started in the travel industry was on the business travel side, working in corporate travel management, so I was keen to ask Suzanne a number of questions to bring me up to speed on what's happening in the business travel space. They run major global events. You'll hear about their next one coming up in Denver that will have about 6,000 attendees, but I was thrilled to meet Suzanne, as well as Laura Purdy, who's the managing director of Exhibition Place you'll get to hear from and then Heather Neal as well, who is the managing director of Destination Toronto.
Speaker 2:But to give you a little bit of context to why GBTA was hosted here in Toronto and some fascinating stats about this city that I call home, is that in 2023, the city of Toronto generated about $9 billion from visitor spending, which was the highest ever recorded for our city, and in 2024, we had over 2.7 million international visitors, which was an increase of about 7% from the previous year, and those visitors contributed more than $13 billion to the local economy in 2024. So you can see just how important major events and meetings are to cities like Toronto but around the world. This is why we do event spotlights to highlight amazing events like this and what brings people together. Now there are many major events planned for the city of Toronto in 2025 and 2026 and we'll highlight a few of those. But GBTA was particularly special because of the fact that you are a business travel organization and clearly you lead the way in helping shape what's happening in this industry with the major suppliers that I also had a chance to meet in the exhibition space at the event.
Speaker 2:So first we're going to speak to Suzanne and she's going to share some fascinating research on the world of business travel and we get right into the latest developments that are shaping our industry. And we also talk about the vital role that GBTA plays in uniting business travel professionals worldwide and really advancing our industry. And then, when we speak to Laura, we'll get a much better understanding of why we're here at Exhibition Place, which is Toronto's premier venue for major global events like GBTA, and she also discusses some of those operational and logistical challenges to host an event of this scale and many that are coming up, like the World Cup. And then we talked to Heather Neal about the city of Toronto and the branding work that they have done to bring in incredible events like GBTA. So we get a better understanding about Destination Toronto and the role that they play with bringing GBTA and other major tourism and business events to our city.
Speaker 2:You're going to have some very interesting takeaways on the role of events within the travel industry as well as get a much better understanding of why Toronto is truly a world-class city, and certainly I got a lot of benefit of understanding the future of business travel.
Speaker 2:So we're going to share quite a few insights into how the industry is adapting to the current challenges and evolving for the future. So, whether you are a business travel professional or someone who's just passionate about the travel industry, like me, this episode highlights the importance of professional organizations, events and conferences in shaping the future of global business travel. I hope you enjoy these conversations and I look forward to bringing you more event spotlights over the course of 2025. Thanks so much for joining us on this special event spotlight of travel trends focused on the GBTA, hosted here in Toronto, canada. I hope you enjoyed the conversations we just had with Suzanne Newfung, the CEO of GBTA, as well as Laura Purdy, the Managing Director of Exhibition Place, and then we just finished off with Heather Neal, the Managing Director of Destination Toronto. If you want more information on GBTA, just check it out at gbtaorg.
Speaker 1:You'll be able to find information about their work in North America, specifically in Canada, as well as their business travel index, which you definitely need to check out, and you heard me talk to Suzanne about that. I'm going to be following that closely and I'm sure many of our listeners will as well.
Speaker 1:And don't forget, we do post clips and highlights on all of our social channels. For the last five years, suzanne, it's great to have you here on YouTube and LinkedIn, so be sure to look out for updates there, and we send out a monthly newsletter. So check out TravelTrendsPodcastcom and subscribe significance on our podcast episodes and our travel organizations that we're going to talk a lot about.
Speaker 3:Thanks so much for joining us on this special event spotlight.
Speaker 1:Thanks again to the destination toronto team for bringing us in a little bit about your background and how you got a real pleasure to work with you and the team. I always love to travel to be back for gbta in 2020 and I went into broadcasting for like a split second um and then ended up in e-commerce at a big telecom company in the United States. My husband's German. We were living in Hawaii at the time and I started with a phone company in Hawaii which is like, do you need phones when you live in Hawaii? But that was a great conduit to getting then a corporate job in e-commerce and moved us to Connecticut.
Speaker 1:So I was in telecom for almost 10 years 9-11 happened moved out of telecom at that point and got on with a company back then called Travelocity Some of you might know it and because I was a leisure traveler, that made a lot of sense. I spent two years on the leisure side and then I had an opportunity at the Sabre family of companies to move into the corporate travel world. So for 20 some years I've been in the corporate travel world side of things.
Speaker 2:That's fascinating. I mean, yeah, working at companies like Verizon and the Travelocity which is Sabre, of course and seeing your background in travel is really impressive. Even Intuit as well, which is an amazing company, the fact you were at the Sabre.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was a divergence.
Speaker 2:I left travel for another split second and went into tax software and came running back to travel. It's hard to leave travel once you're in it for being brought into this event, which I'm thrilled to be here in Toronto at the Exhibition Place and we're going to be hearing from a few executives on this podcast as a special edition broadcast live from the event here in Toronto. But GBTA, the Global Business Travel Association give us a little bit of background, suzanne, on what the GBTA is and what you guys do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, often, when, for example, we're meeting with policymakers for the first time, they think that we're the private jet association. We're not. We're the ones who represent those suppliers and companies with travel budgets who are sending people out on the road on commercial aircraft all the time, or in cars or trains. So it's that kind of travel for work that normal companies and governments do just every day. We have over 8,500 members. We advocate for the trillion and a half US dollar global business travel industry and we deliver with our GBTA Foundation, world-class education, events, advocacy and insights to a growing global network of more than really in our network, 28,. Advocacy and insights to a growing global network of more than really in our network 28,000 travel professionals and a constituency base of what we number to be over 125,000.
Speaker 2:That's fascinating. I mean, many of our listeners know that my career in travel started in corporate travel management with Carlson Wagon Lee, who I'm sure you're familiar with and building out e-commerce tools.
Speaker 2:So it's interesting. I had a few similarities between our journey. I had a radio program in university Many of our listeners don't know that, but that was where I first got a taste for this. But then it was corporate travel. Management is where I cut my teeth in the travel industry, developing e-commerce booking tools for corporate travel, which is such a huge part of the travel industry.
Speaker 2:But very few people understand corporate travel, and one of the reasons I was keen to be here for this event and to be involved with GPTA is the fact that business travel is also going through a renaissance in the last few years and there's companies like Navon Kayak for Business. Both of the executives have been on this podcast before, and so I was really keen to be here to speak to you and to get an understanding of what's happening in corporate travel in 2025. But before we get into that, let's tell everyone why we're here at this event and a little bit of an overview of what's happening here in Toronto. So tell us about the event that we've all come together for, that you've flown in from New York for, and what to expect over the next couple of days.
Speaker 1:Sure, so we're expecting over 650 attendees from nine countries, largely Canada, but we have others. It's really an international conference. It's a buy and supply environment, so, along with a trade show and education sessions, there are over almost 130 buyer companies represented here. We have 62 trade show exhibitors that are here as well for an active commercial discussions and introductions, and the education sessions and main stages are really about thought leadership, along with best practices and what should someone who's spending time and treasure to be here, what can they take home with them to their corporation or their organization? We have government travel managers here as well, so it really covers the gamut. We have government travel managers here as well, so it really covers the gamut.
Speaker 2:Well, I've been looking at the program over the last couple of days and just preparing for the interviews and the discussions.
Speaker 2:I've been looking forward to having this one in particular because obviously it really sets the stage for the next few days of the event and for me to be able to speak to the CEO of GBTA, as we're going to speak to the head of Exhibition Place and Destination Toronto and have a few of the great organizations that come together for this event. But clearly, it's the best opportunity to start and speak to you, given you're really kind of what brings us all together for this event. And the one thing I wanted to ask you when I was looking at the website and I wanted our listeners to understand, is that who comes to this type of event? You mentioned, obviously, that there's nearly 700 attendees from nine countries. But in terms of there's nearly 700 attendees from nine countries, but in terms of buyers, who are they? Yeah, who are they Exactly? So tell us a little bit more so that people listening to this will think, man, I missed an opportunity, I really need to go next year. So who does this event attract?
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure. So people with the title of Corporate Travel Manager are the buy side and they may be for a smaller company, an office manager, they might be the EA for the CEO of a growing startup, and then, on the supply side, they might be corporate sales, they might be product leaders, they might be senior leaders of those companies who are here to see their customers, who are amongst both the partners and the buy side of our industry. So it can be a number of people. Sometimes they're compliance people, sometimes they're HR people, who are here because they're part of the mobility team or the decision makers and they're in charge of safety and risk at their company. And travel is that one place where it all comes together?
Speaker 2:Yeah, got it. No, that makes total sense, for those people who are in the corporate travel management ecosystem already know the significance and the importance of events like these, because this is where as you experience this as well, working at Travelocity once there was online travel agencies, there was this concern of what was going to happen to corporate travel management solutions, because many of them made good revenue from airline tickets and all of a sudden that disappeared and all of a sudden there was little or no commission in selling airline tickets, and then the focus had to be on accommodation and other verticals. And then, once the online travel agencies came along, a lot of people that were working inside corporate offices started booking their own travel and started venturing out to try and do their work independently. And what I find fascinating when you look at an organization this is really for our listeners when they think about GBTA and the 9,000 members and the 28,000 travel professionals is that they're managing $345 billion worth of spending. And that's just staggering when you and that's just North America. There you go.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think the closest comparison on our show we had Matthew Upchurch from Virtuoso and they have 5,000 people come together at an event 25,000, but they do about $30 billion all in aggregate, and this is 10X that amount, because obviously that's all leisure and it just shows you how big the corporate travel management space is. So hopefully we've set the stage there for anyone that is interested in getting into this space. So tell us a little bit more about we're sitting here together on day one of this conference. Tell everyone a little bit about what's going to happen over the next few days, because I've looked at the program. You've got some amazing speakers. You've obviously got all the exhibitors here, but what are some of the highlights that you plan for with this event each year?
Speaker 1:Yes, certainly, along with talking about the state of the industry itself, we'll be talking about some of the things that are happening across policy, world and economics, which is always impactful for corporate travel budgets.
Speaker 1:We'll be doing a lot of in the Ed Sessions. Specifically, there'll be a lot of things about best practices, because everybody's here a practitioner, but there's also some secret sauces within the buy side, where they're only going to be meeting together, and the supply side, where only they will be meeting together as a way for them to juice up their skills when they go back home. There's lots of networking opportunities for people to meet new people that they don't know, because our industry is always changing and I think meeting five or 10 new people at one of these events is a really good outcome and you stay in touch with them and you go home and you've got now your new network. And because we're a member organization, I think there's a lot for us as we think about people and planet as well, and so we're talking about people and planet as well, and how corporate travel in and of itself can have a huge impact on the adoption of sustainable solutions and the way that we care about our people when they're on the road as well.
Speaker 2:Well, of course people are going to be looking and I've mentioned this in the introduction gbtaorg. So there's this event in Toronto, but there's many events you run and there's also given your membership base. Tell us a little bit about some of the other what it takes to become a member, what's involved in that and in some of the I know you guys have a podcast. I was checking that out in advance as well the Business of Travel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, exactly, very appropriately named. So yeah, tell us a little bit about becoming a member and what some of the benefits are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, we're open to anybody anywhere who is in a travel-related profession and is curious or interested or directly related to corporate travel. It is an individual membership, which is not always the case in trade associations. It's not a company membership, so you don't need to go to your company and say, hey, I need thousands of dollars to join. It's affordable for an individual basis. There is an opportunity then for members to become engaged, to volunteer, either at events like this or on committees that we have, which are very subject, specific, could be risk. It could be meetings and events, it could be related to aviation or accommodation, and that is a way to also then start to mentor others, and I think that's where you might be new at some point, but eventually you're going to be an expert at what you do, and we always love when members become mentors to others as part of their journey here. So there's newbies and there's old experts like me and practitioners in general who might have a really specific area of expertise that we can hone in on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's one of the things I was impressed with is the professional development tools that GBTA offers, and the reason I call that out is because, having come up in the industry, there wasn't these resources available 20, 25 years ago, and I certainly would have not only benefited from having access to these resources, but even the events where you bring people together so you can network and learn from each other and then meet other partners. So there's so much on offer as I've come to understand more about GBTA. The other thing I wanted to ask you, too, is when I think about partnerships, and one of the things that drives many organizations beyond the members is the partners that you have, and so even when I registered earlier today, you've got some very high profile partners. Clearly there's such a significant volume of business. Tell us a little bit about how people partner with GBTA and come to an event and have an exhibit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, I think, the supply side. We're nowhere without the suppliers. We don't necessarily give members a free ride on most things, but we certainly get a lot of our juice from suppliers, who make it possible for us to put on lots of education and lots of networking capabilities. The partners come from the aviation hotel, the car rental, car share, ride share all the way through to that TMC channel that you had talked about.
Speaker 1:Cwt is part of what we call travel management companies. They used to be travel agencies. They sort of left the agency world and became management companies in a true sense of the word. So there's the TMC category and then there's payments and online booking tools, and all of those are part of that ecosystem that find a place here. I think what we're also definitely involved with is that meeting space. So meetings are back post COVID and the ones who destinations, but also the hotels and other meeting locations where those events and meetings can happen, are definitely a part of that ecosystem as well and they need to get the word out. They also need to meet their customers but build new business as well, and so we create that opportunity for them.
Speaker 2:Well, the other thing I found interesting, too, is, obviously you do a lot of work with government organizations, so you work on mobility, as you've mentioned.
Speaker 2:You have government relations working on policies all these things that are incredibly important and most B2C travelers obviously these are the things that you rely on your travel advisor, your travel agent, just to make sure these things are taken care of for you. One of the other ones that stood out to me that you do work in is sustainability, and so I wanted to call that out, because I'm always keen to ask any of our guests and this is very much to your point about uh, post pandemic, uh, travel is back post pandemic, which is great, and I think one of the things that we've certainly seen is that people have become more conscientious of their impact, and so I just wanted to talk about a few of the initiatives that you have on around sustainability, as people make decisions about which conferences to go to and which partners to support. So tell us a little bit about how you look at sustainability and some of the initiatives that you guys have underway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it might seem like we're talking out of both sides of our mouth when we talk about sustainability and corporate travel, because I think in the midst of COVID there was a lot of, I would say, flight shaming, mainly for travel for work, and if we remember what was happening during the pandemic, essential travel was all travel for work. So all of that important travel was really essentially getting PPE and other things that we don't even remember anymore because our memory is thankfully short. We've blocked a lot of that out.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:But that was essential and still is essential. Travel, I think what happened in that process and I got to my role in February of 2021. So the pandemic was already a year old and we thought it was almost over. It wasn't almost over, we still had a ways to go. All of a sudden, it raged back again, almost over.
Speaker 2:We still had a ways to go. All of a sudden it raged back again. Exactly.
Speaker 1:We still had some more to go. But what we learned in that process that a trillion and a half dollars US dollars in spend is an awful lot of piggy bank or checkbook to play with when an industry needs to reinvent itself. And talking with policymakers in Europe and the United States and in Canada at that point, policymakers wanted to make sure that humans could still travel. It was very important during that period of time that nobody could travel, that we realized what we had lost, and policymakers across the board were not ready. Despite some of the flight shaming that was happening in the media, they were not ready to say travel for work is something we don't support. They do support it. And so how could we make this trillion and a half US dollars in spend be a force for good in changing things? So the procurement side of corporate travel, which is a huge component that's also a title that's here. Travel procurement is a by title. They are looking for sustainable solutions, and so in two and a half almost three years ago now, we reseated.
Speaker 1:We set up our GBTA Foundation, which had been put to rest long before COVID, and we set it up under a people and planet priority premise a lot of P's there the idea being that if we can organize ourselves in that kind of procurement organization setup, we can help drive more sustainable solutions faster, and some categories can be made more sustainable faster. Some it will take decades. Aviation is in the future. We don't have enough sustainable aviation fuel and some other things that are the early building blocks of sustainable aviation. Hydrogen even further down the road, but in brick-and-mortar locations there are more accessible solutions already.
Speaker 1:And what we also learned is that procurement managers were asking a lot of questions, but they were asking questions in hundreds of different ways and the suppliers were actually becoming inundated by this onslaught of questions that they didn't have the people anymore to answer all of these. So what we did with our early team it's gotten a little bigger, but not much is to create organized principles around sustainable procurement standards what are the questions to ask, and have suppliers also be part of that, so that they also are knowing what will be asked and they can already prepare their teams on how to answer those questions. The other side of it is that we also have to let them know those who don't know where to start. Where do you start when you're trying to make your program more sustainable? And so we started with some education. We've started with some tools for how to measure where you're at in your journey, and all of those things whether it's from a national or a global perspective now are things that our members can take advantage of.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2:I was really keen to ask you that because, certainly in preparation, looking at the priorities, for where you advocate, certainly mobility, which is very important, and we can talk about that as well because I think that there's a more pressing need, more than ever, of a realization that you know it's like 10% of the population is traveling with disabilities and there's a lot of areas that they're just ways they can't travel that need to be addressed and and a lot of companies are now doing that because there's an economic incentive, they realize there's a business opportunity there and infrastructure, obviously, but promoting sustainable business travel.
Speaker 2:When I worked at Lonely Planet 15, 20 years ago, we had carbon offsets for our flights and I was just at a conference recently in Mobile Alabama with the Educational Travel Consortium and my friend, shannon Stoll got up on stage, who runs the Adventure Travel and Trade Association, and said how many people offset their flights and two people lifted their hands. And here we are, that many years later, and it really hasn't made any substantial impact. But what we're seeing, post-pandemic, is that when people are presented with the options, because price is always going to be a key determination, but if you present the options as like a bookingcom does now, where you give sustainable options and put it as a factor in decision-making, people will make that decision. They will make that conscious choice to choose.
Speaker 1:Well and just think about it when a company makes it their policy. Now you've got thousands of travelers that are doing the right thing, and I think that's again is that extra juice that corporate travel can give to the industry when it comes to choice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. Now, if we think about corporate travel management as we sit here together in 2025 and look at the industry because certainly what I'm keen to ask you about is the overall health of the industry, where we are and where we're headed. But let's start a little bit with where we find ourselves in the middle of 2025 when it comes to business travel. Obviously, we shared some numbers there that are very substantial, but obviously, given those huge numbers, they do fluctuate based on one of the things that people thought. For sure, there was a few people that ruled out business travel. Even Bill Gates was one of them. There's some funny videos now he still does.
Speaker 2:That's so funny, it just doesn't age well. It's just like you don't need to go to a meet in person. You can just do it. Virtually a hologram. But reality is we're human. As creatures, we want to be face-to-face we want to be in person.
Speaker 2:We're social. We're social Exactly. Yeah, you want to do each other and there's just a connection that happens that just can't be replaced on a screen. And so we had this the chairman of the travel corporation where I worked for many years. He had this line, which was never shirk a journey, like anytime. You just need to get on a flight and get there to meet with your client, meet with your customer, and it just had to be your priority, which is, I think, probably we have that in common for sure. And so a lot of people predicted corporate travel's demise. And then here we are in 2025 and the business has rebounded very strong. But tell us exactly where you find ourselves three years post-pandemic, and then we'll talk about where we're headed, because I think we're starting to hit a little bit of choppy waters. For the first time since post-COVID, we had this revenge travel, but a lot of that was leisure. But one of the big trends that I'm sure you have a lot to say on is this what was called bleasure. Nobody liked that term.
Speaker 2:I call it blended. Yes, exactly that is the much better way to describe it is blended travel People. Now they work from home, they travel for work, and when they travel for work, they also tack on a few days of holiday, and it's a new lifestyle. So tell us, Suzanne, give us a bit of an overview of how business travel is faring in mid-2025.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, from our reckoning and this is from our business travel index outlook that we released last July we're in the process of redoing it now, but we're still at least two to three months away from releasing the 2025 version.
Speaker 1:Away from releasing the 2025 version, we predicted and I'm pretty sure this was true that we had surpassed 2019 spend levels in 2024. And that is at about the trillion and a half level. A little below 1.43 trillion is what we spent as a global industry back in 2019. I think what we see now is that we are expecting, under that forecast, to reach this year a high of 1.63 trillion US dollars and that by 2028, we usually do a five-year forecast, including the current year that we're in Last year it would have been through 2028, we usually do a five-year forecast, including the current year that we're in. Last year it would have been through 2028 that we would surpass $2 trillion, and so the trajectory was strong. Economy looked good. Regionally in North America, we were at about last year at about $400 billion, that's US, canada and Mexico and nationally if I could dive into some Canada.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm really keen. Since we're here in Toronto, I wanted to know how does Canada and the US compare for business travel?
Speaker 1:So US is number two, just neck and neck with China. China US make up almost 50% of world's global corporate travel, but Canada is number 13,. Lucky number 13. Corporate travel, but Canada is number 13, lucky number 13, was spending last year at about 26.3 billion USD, or 36 and a half billion Canadian. So that gives you an idea of how important this industry is for Canada as well. And that 24 versus 23 was a growth rate of 15%, so it was actually exceeding the growth rate of the US and actually global of 2024, which we were saying would be about 11%. So Canada should have had a really good year last year.
Speaker 1:What we also see is that, looking ahead this year, there may be some bumps ahead, but we're anticipating that Canada's corporate travel will rise to 43 billion Canadian, or almost an 18% increase over last year.
Speaker 1:And that could still hold true, because I think what I've been learning by traveling the world a bit the first half of this year is that even with economic uncertainty, especially with trade wars, that kind of thing that we're all reading about is producers need markets and markets need customers, and, as you think about partners and the kinds of things that are uncertain in this day and age, it may actually drive more travel in the short term.
Speaker 1:When businesses are looking for their next great partner, their next great market, they need to go there and make sure that they're working things out. It's really hard to have trade negotiations through video screens and if you're meeting someone new and building something brand new, even more important, that you're getting on the road and doing that. I also think it may be interesting for your listeners to know that the top industries that were fueling no pun intended travel, business travel last year in Canada were real estate, arts and entertainment, construction and professional slash, scientific, and all of those were somewhere between 19 and 20 percent growth year over year. So some of those may actually be terrafe mutant for a while. So I think, if you think about that, the health of, I think, the Canadian business travel market is probably okay.
Speaker 2:And what about oil and gas and people traveling to those? Is it even rank or no? It didn't.
Speaker 1:I don't have that in front of me, but I can certainly look that up. I think there's certainly with changing trends there. I think there's lots of that might actually be going in favor of oil and gas at the moment, depending on where you sit. And we know that some of the exploration and some of the developments around the world, a lot of that is global travel as well.
Speaker 2:For sure. Now, it's just interesting timing because I flew back from Moncton, new Brunswick last night and I was telling Suzanne, just before we started recording, that my son is going to the aviation program there. That's his intention. He wants to be a pilot. Many of our listeners know that we're a family of avid travelers and our sons always wanted to be a pilot and so, one of the stats, I was also keen to share with him some of the aviation stats and when you mentioned about aviation, just how significant that is, because you need to get to any of these cities for conferences, for work functions. But the thing I always see when I'm traveling is people that are headed back to the oil patch and they're always flying first class, and so it always stands out that there is a big industry there of trying to get these workers to and from their various operations.
Speaker 1:And it's a unique kind of business travel, if I think about it. So we have a specialty area with some committee work happening and an annual event that's called Project Crew and Teams Travel, and it's one of the outlier use cases. If you will of you can't most of those people can't just open an online booking tool at their companies and say, oh, I think I'll go here today and meet company X. If you're traveling with a crew, all of that has to be organized quite centrally, and aviation crews do it, rail crews do it, oil patch crews do it, and there's a number of industries that actually have that as their main kind of travel for work.
Speaker 2:Interesting. Another thing I wanted to ask you too is this question of small to medium enterprises SMEs as sometimes they get referred to by sales teams or larger enterprise organizations. So when you mention those numbers, is there a breakdown between large corporate and then small to medium-sized business, and I guess I'm just genuinely curious to know the breakdown between the two. And then, maybe, where you're seeing growth from? Is the small to medium-sized businesses starting to travel more and invest in travel? One of the things, suzanne, you'll appreciate this being in this space One of my colleagues many years ago at Carlson Wagonley.
Speaker 2:She used to invest in companies that were spending more on travel that quarter. This was her clever and I'm just sharing this as a financial investing hack for those of you who listen to this. We have a lot of investors listening to this podcast, I'm sure, but anyway, she used to look at those numbers and figure out if you're making a lot of sales calls and your business travel expenditure was up, then chances are you're going to be announcing the next quarter you've closed some big deals, and it was a real clever way without-.
Speaker 1:Without insider trading, exactly.
Speaker 2:Being very careful of that Exactly, but just try to figure out if there's more business travel happening. So the reason I actually specifically mentioned that is because some of the insights you'll have, like what you're seeing in terms of business travel, will affect the wider economy later, and that's where I want to get into next, about where we're headed and some of the things that we're seeing, how best to prepare. But just before we segue into that, what would be the best way to kind of break down large enterprise versus small to medium business in corporate traveling?
Speaker 1:Well, certainly medium enterprise and large business would be in that trillion and a half that I talked about. The smaller the company, the less managed their travel program is, and we don't measure that. So they're probably booking on their own or they have an unmanaged travel program, and I often get asked what's the value of a managed travel program? And I often get asked what's the value of a managed travel program and A if your spend is increasing. You need to manage your spend and you need to make sure that productivity is matching what you're spending and you're getting the value out of that.
Speaker 1:But it also is measured in. If you need to find your people and you don't know where your people are because there's more weather incidences or there's something else that's happening around the world or you're in an industry that is fraught with some risk, you can't afford not to have a managed travel program. And so I think the growing companies that are making their way through there's often somebody at some point that says, well, we just broke a million dollars in travel spend. I think we need to start to manage it now, and then they start looking for the professional that can help them do that. So I think they're connected. But the SME world is feeder into the big practitioners that show up at our events around the world, and it depends on the region you're in. But I think the opportunity suppliers love to talk to growing SME companies because that's where they can provide the most value as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really interesting you mentioned that, I mean when the CEO of Navon was on our program and we also had the head of Kayak for business and it's really interesting that they actually make a priority of trying to connect with fast growing startups. Because when you look at some of the technology companies, of course, like a company like Shopify, to mention some place connected to Toronto and Canada when you think about getting access to that account and seeing that business explode in scale, that's a corporate travel account you want. And then even those companies when they're looking at different corporate travel management partners, when they're reassessing based on their spend. This is where these forward-thinking organizations like a Kayaker Navon want to attract those types of clients. So I have one other question, though, for you, suzanne, before we start talking about the future.
Speaker 2:You mentioned the BTI data, the business travel intelligence. Tell us a little bit more about the reports that you generate, because I'm always keen to read these as well, and one of the new things that we're doing with Travel Trends is doing a monthly snapshot of what's happening in the travel industry. We have, of course, this Travel Trends podcast. A lot of our listeners have asked us to make it even more topical and timely, especially as we hit these choppy waters, and they're very keen to know more than ever what some of the signals they should be paying attention to. And so I wanted just to go back to that for a moment so that, if you could share with us the types of reports that you generate as an organization, explain a little bit more about BTI specifically. I know you mentioned there's a new one coming up. If you wouldn't mind as well, suzanne, just tell us some of the trends that you're seeing from those, like some of the insights that you're generating from those reports that you've already been showcasing and highlighting.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, sure, Our BTI is actually that annual forecast that covers 72 countries and 44 industries. We also this is going to be our third year where we also survey over 4,000 business travelers from around the world as part of that project, because, ultimately, the real stakeholder of our industry are the travelers themselves and we need to know what they're doing in terms of preferences, behaviors and spending. And so that BTI is our annual gift to the industry, if you will, for where we think business travel is going. It's based on prior year econometric data. Heavily heavily we have an economist do it for us, but what we do in between, then, is do sentiment polling and other kinds of research that tells us what for one specific topic or for a broad level of topics. And I think what's happening now, certainly with with what we have, uh, happening with in terms of tariffs, especially with the us related deportations or border rejections and so called travel bans that might be targeting certain travelers from specific countries soon Just in April, we conducted a sentiment poll among business travel professionals worldwide about the projected impact of what some of those actions could mean and what it means to our industry as a result. So, to share some of those insights that I'll be sharing this week.
Speaker 1:The biggest insight that we uncovered is that, on a global basis, almost a third of travel managers or procurement managers anticipate business travel volume and spend will decrease amidst these recent US government actions, and not just decrease but decrease by an average of 20 to 21 percent. And so, if we have our crystal ball out there, that is. And then there's another big segment that is uncertain. They're not even sure enough to say it'll decrease or increase or stay the same. About half say nothing will change or it'll increase, but the other half is either uncertain or very pessimistic. The other group that we surveyed were global travel suppliers, like the TMCs you mentioned, or suppliers on the air car hotel side, or the tech companies that support them, and 37% of them expect there to be a revenue decrease as a result, and I think the average is something like 18% that they expect their revenue to decrease. So that 18% to 21%, it's pretty consistent. So that 18% to 21%, it's pretty consistent. But suppliers in general are a little bit pessimistic about what's happening as well.
Speaker 1:In terms of Canadian data. Twice as many Canadian buyers are concerned and say that their volumes will decrease, and 53% say that their spending will decrease this year as a result of that. So cross-border travel certainly is one of those concerns and overall, canadians in general know an awful lot of people personally that have been affected by some of these latest policy actions. So I think it's Canadian buyers are more likely to have revised their travel policies and to have canceled, relocated or pulled employee meetings from meetings in the US as a result of some of this. I think that's really, really compelling for us to be aware of and certainly something that gives us a lot of energy when we think about what we're putting together for our own legislative events around the world and how we're advocating for the right policy to make sure that this mobility, right to travel, is something that's not taken away from us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. I mean, I couldn't agree with you on many of the points you just shared, and the reason I wanted to ask about some of the data and the insights is because, when we get into these uncertain times, everyone's looking to understand what's happening in the market and what they should be paying attention to, and so that's why I wanted everyone to understand what reports are available and then also to get into some of this actual real world scenario of how travel is being impacted already and what some of your projections are, which I kindly appreciate you sharing with us, because obviously we need to be eyes wide open to these. As an industry, travel goes from crisis to crisis, as you're well aware.
Speaker 1:We have a great graph to share with you oh, is that perfect?
Speaker 2:Well, I joined the travel industry right after 9-11. And this is where there was a prediction at that point that the travel industry had seen its best times and that it was going to take years to recover. And travel is so resilient and this is one of the things I'm always optimistic about the travel industry is, whenever we hit headwinds, travelers do come back. I mean, I stood in my office in LA what five years ago during the, when the pandemic started, and I've been living in it. So I I love the States, I love living in the US. I'm based in Canada. This is where it's important for me and our listeners to know that, because I think I love traveling to the US and I love Americans coming to Canada. I certainly believe in open borders safe, secure, but also open borders for trade and for commerce, and especially the movement of people to be able to conduct business and go to meetings the movement of people to be able to conduct business and go to meetings. But what I was going to say to you, suzanne, is that when I stood in my office and read a report that said that and this is early 2020, after the pandemic, this is mid-2020, it was going to take 10 years for the industry to come back, if it ever did at all. And again, I looked out the window thinking to myself what is a more realistic scenario? And you just highlighted, in 2024, the business travel overcame the numbers in 2019. And we started seeing that 2022 was a good year, 23. And most industries like take the cruise industry they were having record years in 23 and 24. And most of them are projecting considerable growth for the next five years. So we were on this incredibly successful trajectory with travel and all of a sudden now, tariffs and trade.
Speaker 2:And so one of the things I just wanted to share with all of our listeners on either side of the US-Canadian border, one of the episodes we were doing is called Elbows Up, arms Open. So there's a big thing about elbows up here, as many Canadians know the term from hockey. As you know, you get into the corner and you need to put your elbows up, so Canada's elbows up for tariffs, but when it comes to Americans traveling to Canada and vice versa, arms open. Because, speaking to other Canadians that work in the tourism industry, the reality is, if Americans stop coming to Canada, it could significantly impact our economy, and the same is already happening on the US side, as you well know, that Canadians are not traveling or holding back for some of the reasons you've noted, and it's having a really negative impact on a number of businesses. So I hope that, through negotiation and compromise and good faith, we overcome this together and find a positive path forward.
Speaker 2:But tell us a little bit more, suzanne, about how you see the rest of 2025 playing out, given all of those headwinds. What are some of the things you're doing to advocate on behalf of business travel cross-border and international and what are some of the things that you're encouraging travelers to pay attention to? I'll give one great example, if you wouldn't mind, suzanne you recently and this came to my inbox yesterday the GBTA sent an article to help people understand about crossing the border, to makes you more confident taking that business trip, especially if you work in HR or you have sensitive data. So I think this is where you, as an organization, clearly are doing a great job of reassuring people, providing them the right information. You can't necessarily change the policy, but you can at least educate and inform people. So yeah, if you wouldn't mind, tell us a little bit about some of the things you're doing and how you see the next six months in this industry.
Speaker 1:Yes, certainly it's about educating our members so they can educate their constituencies, because they all represent thousands of travelers in most cases. I think what we will continue to advocate for and it's interesting that it didn't change our top three things that we're for it just creates nuance for what level of detail we have to go into that. We didn't have to before, so, uh, we do. We hold an annual event in the united states in washington dc. That's coming up in june. It's our annual legislative fly-in and certainly what we'll be talking about. There are some of the impacts that we've seen, as well as what we need from policymakers in general and again, we're nonpartisan. It's really meant to be.
Speaker 1:Here's this industry and in most cases I think it's the case in Canada as well. Many lawmakers are business travelers. They have to get to Ottawa, they have to get to Washington. They might be weekly travelers if they're commuting. So I think it hits home for them once they realize what we stand for commuting. So I think it hits home for them once they realize what we stand for we spent a few days in Brussels in March as well in a similar fashion that there aren't retaliatory kind of impacts as well closing borders and other things. I think it's interesting that it's a big anniversary the 40th anniversary of the Schengen this summer.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, of course.
Speaker 1:And, if anything, business travelers benefit the most. If you're crossing a few borders, which is easy to do in Europe on a train on a given day, you don't get stopped at the border. In most cases where you get to go one meeting here, you go to your next one, you go on, and I think that's a great example of what the ease of border crossing in a safe and appropriate way. I think that has certainly helped the business travel industry as well. And then there's the other piece that I said before, which is that in times of uncertainty, it may actually drive more business travel in the short term. What we are concerned about is that if it does drive or result in a recession, then we certainly all across the board in many countries have to worry about the kind of unintended consequences, and certainly business travel would be a casualty of that.
Speaker 1:We saw that in 2008, 2009. When I was a travel supplier, we certainly saw that reaction happening as well. But our industry, as you said, is very resilient. It's one of those. That and that chart that I refer to has a few little cliffs on it. No cliff as big as the pandemic cliff that we had in 2020. But remember that came off with the best first quarter that the industry had ever had. First quarter of 2020 was record-breaking. So I think, no matter what comes in front of us, I think what we also see is that when diplomatic travel goes down, diplomacy stops.
Speaker 1:And so there's something to be said. Face-to-face meetings, I think, are really important, and diplomatic travel is travel for work as well. As we think about that going forward, I think there's no time like the present for us to be thinking about what rising costs have to do with budgets, is no time like the present for us to be thinking about what rising costs have to do with budgets, and that it's even more important to have someone with either certification or professional background on your team to be able to make sure that you've got your travel program in the right hands and you can decide where and how if you have to make trade-offs and what that means, because there is a direct correlation to sales and travel in good times, and there's definitely one of those correlations in bad times as well.
Speaker 2:For sure, and this is where your role becomes that much more important during these times, not only because of the reports that you generate and the education and information that you also share, but also preparing for travel to come back again.
Speaker 2:I mean, this is where you know, even if there is a short-term impact and hopefully it is exactly that that there is you know some choppy waters ahead, but ultimately the global economy and this is you know.
Speaker 2:You look at examples like Brexit and then look at you just described Schengen and the European Union. I was born in the UK and I still I've got my UK passport no longer gives me the privileges and opportunities my son wanted to work all across Europe and this is where I think there is also going to be a realization about just how important the free flow of people and goods are, and I think this is where there's an opportunity to educate and also prepare for business travel. To come back, I think one of the things that we've certainly seen on the supplier side there's more capacity than ever certainly seen on the supplier side. You know there's more capacity than ever Like. Then you look at the number of airlines, the number of routes that are offering continuing opening up new capacity, the number of new hotels that are being built. Even during the pandemic, most of those infrastructure projects kept pace, and so they were-.
Speaker 2:And got done ahead of schedule. That's exactly it. Even new airports that were being built, like LaGuardia in New York and like so there's. This is where, like, there's an opportunity in a crisis and then to be ready on the other side. And so what are some of the things you're most optimistic about? You know, putting, I guess, some of the economic and policy challenges to one side for a moment, but if you think about the future of our industry in the longer term, what are some of the things that excite you about our industry in this space?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think one of the key things that has me excited is I think we're traveling smarter. I think, along with the sustainability pressures that some of us feel or that our companies are putting on us in terms of policy and some of the tools that are now in place where you can see projected emissions that we couldn't see before, I think in general, the other impact is that day trips are gone. I think, for the most part, very few. Maybe 5% of business travel now involves a day trip, which, if you've ever done them, they're horrible. You get up at three o' dark o'clock and you're on the road, either driving or in a train or on a plane, and then you're coming back at midnight from those long and that's with no disruptions. So if there's disruptions along the way, it's even worse. But what we see now is 40% of business trips are now three to five nights, and so there's more productivity packed into every trip. There might be multiple destinations or, at a minimum, multiple meetings, and so people are thinking about maximizing their time on the road. So maybe they're not gone every week. They're gone a couple of weeks a month, but not every week every month, and certainly it's easier on family, it's easier on your own personal life and your own well-being, but it's also better on the environment If you keep going on your trip and then you come back and then you get your work done and then you get ready for your next one.
Speaker 1:I think the other thing that we see is you talked about blended travel. That is a continuing trend. I think what we see is that something like 60% of travelers are more likely to do blended travel than they were before COVID, and the reason I like the word blended is because pleasure has 98% letters that are leisure travel, and there's one letter that's business travel, and I think, in large part, covid taught us that a work trip can actually lead into what would be a leisure part of your trip. You're extending a weekend or you're bringing family along, but it's a work trip. That essentially anchors what that trip is, and I think there's also a big sustainability.
Speaker 1:Plus is that if you have to as I do next month go to Asia for one of our conferences, I'm doing one of my weeks of annual vacation there, because I'm already there and I don't have to fly there again in order to fill my soul with what is a new travel experience, and so I think there's also something to be said for employee retention, the companies that let their employees take advantage of these kinds of things, and again, it doesn't cost the company anymore I'm not charging anything more for that kind of a blended trip it is more likely to keep employees in their jobs and it is so expensive for companies to replace great employees that we often think to Bill Gates' point before employees that don't know each other don't stay together. You don't have that stickiness and during COVID people started jobs and quit jobs without ever having met some of their colleagues face-to-face, maybe none of their colleagues face-to-face. And we know that where there's community and culture at your workplace, you're more likely to stay there and have a long and have lasting impact on your company.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's fascinating. I'm glad I have you here to be able to share that type of information, because I certainly find it interesting. I'm sure our listeners are as well. There's a couple other questions I had for you, Suzanne, and then I know you've got a busy conference schedule that you need to get back to, but I really appreciate you spending time with me to have this conversation, and one of the things I wanted to ask you that I'm always keen to ask an executive like yourself that has risen to such a level of prominence, and justifiably so, when people look at your background and your career like it's a, and I love seeing that progress.
Speaker 2:A lot of younger generation and I can speak to this now because I have kids that are coming into the corporate world they want to advance quickly and I'm sure you've seen that with a lot of the younger generation is that you know they want to be vice president by they're 25 and they want to run the company by the time they're 30. Right, and I'm all for ambition, but the reality is that you do need to learn your craft and you have to become a master of craft. You need to learn how to manage people, manage partners, read a spreadsheet, understand financial reports I mean, there is so much to learn and you realize that there is wisdom in your elders. And I think probably this show is an indication of that, because many people do get a lot of benefit from the conversations that we have on this show. And for me, Suzanne I'm not sure if we've made this connection before, but when I started this podcast, my dad was dying of cancer and one of the things that I was transitioning and I said I was going to start this podcast to kind of give back to the travel industry that has given me so much.
Speaker 2:And one of the podcasts I used to listen to was a Stanford University podcast. I used to ride my bike into Lonely Planet's office. I used to ride my bike in the Lonely Planet's office. I used to listen to these podcasts and I would apply the recommendations from various speakers, like Marissa Mayer, who used to be at Google at the time, into my work. And so one of the things I'm always very keen to ask someone of your prominence is what advice would you have for that young person out there right now who's either on their bike or on their treadmill or folding laundry at the moment and is listening to this because they want to advance their career. They either want to get into this industry. What would be your recommendations to them?
Speaker 1:First of all, ask good questions. I think if you're ambitious then you need to be curious, because I think anybody who attains success really early has a certain amount of talent. But it's because they've been curious and they learn, and they learn quickly. And so interesting with the corporate travel industry, I think it's so much more complex in many ways than the leisure business. I know my leisure friends will be unhappy with me maybe, but there are so many layers to the ecosystem that aren't necessarily there for the leisure business. People book direct in leisure. They don't book direct in many cases in the corporate world and there's many layers of service and thus there's opportunity for AI.
Speaker 1:I can't believe we got through the whole podcast without talking about AI yet, but I think the future is going to be automate what you can and use human skills and ingenuity for the pieces that can't be automated. And I think for someone coming up in the world, it is find out what you love to do and what you're good at. Try to combine them if you can. But some jobs are just slogs and sometimes you got to go through a couple of years of a job you don't really enjoy because you're learning so much, and I would say we learn the most sometimes from bosses we don't really appreciate, and so it helps you to be a better boss. It helps you to be other things later on in life, maybe a little bit like a professor in college the same thing, right. But I think most of all it's take advantage of networking. Make sure that you that's one of your best assets Don't be hiding in a corner.
Speaker 1:If you are ambitious, take things that make you uncomfortable. Look for opportunities for special projects and things that you might not be great with, but you can sit next to someone who really knows what they're doing and you can be mentored by them. And, I think, set your career as a bit of a business plan in the way that you're looking at it, and if you miss something, fine, you can always go to something. I think lots of our pivots in our own careers is because we weren't necessarily looking for something and we found something by accident, and sometimes those are the best finds.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's some great wisdom right there, and I like that you actually called out the fact that we didn't talk about AI and, by all means, if you want to share anything on that topic, but actually, for me, I find that as soon as we open up that door, then we're going to spend the entire time going down that path, and I think that what we've talked about has been so informative, so valuable, and I want to make sure that all of of AI, as it relates to business travel, that you as an organization, or listeners, should be paying attention to.
Speaker 1:Well, certainly, I think our team is quite small.
Speaker 1:So where we're implementing AI is probably where the general world is implementing AI AI but I think many of our suppliers are looking at it in ways to change their business, in their tech space and in their customer service space especially, and so I think the promise of AI is that, as accuracy increases because travel is a little fraught, you don't want to be right 90% of the time because 10% of the people might be taking the wrong connection or something right.
Speaker 1:So I think the margin of error in a travel industry has to be much smaller than in other areas where you can start to work with it and make sure that it keeps learning and improving, but where human lives are at stake, I think it's really important that we get that accuracy up, with some human checks and balances along the way. But there's a huge, huge amount of promise for us. I think our industry has been one where you couldn't get enough post-COVID, enough customer service agents and others to be able to do some of that work that can be automated as a first step. Some of those maybe 50% of the questions can be answered by a bot at the beginning, and the other 50% need human interactions. So I think it's up to us as an industry to figure out what that 50% is and get that automated and then make sure humans are at the end of the other phone calls.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. I mean, I saw that in all those years when angry executives were calling in because their flight had canceled, and seeing the reaction of some of the team members and what their ability was to be able to manage those situations, have empathy, and so this is where those human qualities, especially in this space, are still paramount. But the technology is certainly speeding ahead and we'll have to have you back. We're doing our AI Summit later this year and, suzanne, I'd love to have you back and we can dive into just that specifically and how it's impacting corporate travel. So I'll look forward to inviting you back in October and I want to make sure, just as we sign off, that all of our listeners can find out more about GBTA any specific events that are coming up, reports, any things that you would point people towards for more information.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, a big convention is happening toward the end of July in Denver. We expect nearly 6,000 people, so it's a big event that we hold annually. Um, in between now and then, uh is our apac summit, which is happening in singapore. Uh, it's our apac conference, uh, in uh toward the end of may. In june has we have our legislative event and our sustainability summit. We do one a year, a sustainability summit, and we've been fluctuating between europe and the US. This year it's back in Washington DC and then, as we head toward the fall, we're in Mexico City in September and we are in Hamburg, germany, in November, so bringing all of those best practices and so much uniqueness in each one of those regions. So the education is really fit for purpose. The research we're coming out with the BTI, of course, and we've got some other really interesting economic and ROI kinds of studies and some category-specific studies between now and the fall. So go to gbtaorg. You can find out what you need and if it's people and planet related, you can go to our GBTA Foundation site.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. I have already been reading through the reports and I know I'm going to stay tuned. I'm sure many of our listeners that are not familiar certainly this has been eye-opening for them as well. And I have to say, suzanne, it's been a real pleasure to speak to you. This was a real highlight for me and I certainly look forward to keeping in touch and good luck over the next couple of days and we'll see each other again soon.
Speaker 1:Thank you Dan.
Speaker 2:I now have the privilege to speak to Laura Purdy, who is the General Manager of Exhibition Place. Laura, thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 3:My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. I'm really looking forward to this discussion because Exhibition Place holds a special place in my heart. Having grown up in Mississauga and spending so many trips heading on the GO train into Toronto and getting off at Exhibition Place, of course, the Blue Jays I'm really keen to have the conversation with you to learn more about Exhibition Place. Now tell us your role is the general manager, laura. Tell us a little bit about your role and how you came to be the general manager at Exhibition Place.
Speaker 3:Well, it's an interesting story.
Speaker 3:I originally started my career in the shopping center management industry.
Speaker 3:I worked for a company called Olympia New York, which was a major developer in Toronto, and in my role there I was in charge of marketing and communications, and we would participate in a number of different bid projects around the world for different development or opportunities that the company was looking at.
Speaker 3:In 1996, this building right across the street from where we are today, which was called the National Trade Center, was under construction and looking for a management company to manage this brand new convention center that was going to be the largest one in Canada, and so I was assigned to work on the bid team. And lo and behold, you know, after several months of working with some of our colleagues in the States, we won the bid. And after we won the bid, I was called in and informed that I was going to become the Director of Sales and Marketing. Surprise, surprise, unbeknownst to me, and at the time I was very content with what I was doing in shopping center management, retail management, and I made a deal. My deal was I would come and open the building and work there for a year, and then I would go back, and so Life changed.
Speaker 2:Life had other plans for you.
Speaker 3:Well, I went, I came, we opened the building After a year. They knocked on my door and said would you please come back? And I said I don't think so. This is a really amazing place and I'm going to stay. And that was 28 years ago, wow. So we just celebrated the 28th anniversary of Entercare Center at Exhibition Place and I've been here since day one. I was the first employee of that new building, that's amazing.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's cool. Well, one thing that Laura and I just got to connect on just as we were sitting down to record is that we actually both grew up in Mississauga, so we were actually both riding those GO trains into town, and clearly this particular place holds a very special meaning for you.
Speaker 3:You were watching the Argonauts games outdoors.
Speaker 2:Outdoors freezing cold yeah exactly, or sitting in the bleachers for the Blue Jays games which they've now recreated. This whole area is special to me but I don't know the full history. This whole area is special to me but I don't know the full history and even when I was preparing for our conversation I was amazed at what I was learning and uncovering about Exhibition Place. And just to give our listeners some context, I mean this goes back to 1879. Many people might even be familiar with seeing this particular the architecture in movies. Like you might see the backdrop and never know that that's like the C&E or Exhibition Place. But we would come here often for the C&E, the Canadian National Exhibition, which has been hosted every year here at the Exhibition Place. But here's the part that I found staggering is that you guys host over 1,200 events every year and have nearly 6 million visitors.
Speaker 3:That's crazy to me. We're up to 2,100 events a year. As of last year, unreal and yeah, almost 6 million people a year and it is quite amazing. So when you think about it under a 365-day, year we're hosting multiple events every day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, multiple events every day. Yeah, well, the particular building that we're in, which is also a bit special for me because we're in the automotive building within Exhibition Place, which is a beautiful old building, and I know that you guys have many, many updates to this building and we'll talk a bit about sustainability in this discussion as well but I used to come here for the ski and snowboard show which is like, and it was always held at the automotive building every year, and so that's why it holds special meaning for me. Even when I walked in today, I was like I still remember coming in here 25 years ago. It looks a little different.
Speaker 1:It looks amazing.
Speaker 2:That's the one thing I was like oh my God this place has been like, has really been kept up and it's so modern inside. But, yeah, tell everyone a bit about Exhibition Place For the uninitiated, for our global audience, that don't have the connection, like we do, to Mississauga, Toronto and don't know what a GO train is. Tell everyone about Exhibition Place a bit of the background and context for the event that we're here for.
Speaker 3:Of course. So Exhibition Place is a 192-acre campus and we are located on Toronto's waterfront and the origins of Exhibition Place really came back to the Canadian National Exhibition, which was all the buildings were really created to house the Canadian National Exhibition and, interestingly enough, you know it was like a world's fair at that point in time. So it was an annual summertime 18-day event and each of the buildings were constructed with the Canadian National Exhibition in mind. So you have, for example, this building, the automotive building, which was actually constructed in the late 1920s to showcase the first automobile, and there are some pretty amazing little aspects architecturally in this building that give us a view to the origin of the automobile. So I'll walk you around later. There's little plaster impressions of wheels with wings, which was like the future of travel that are in the ceilings of the building.
Speaker 3:So you know, each building has its own unique kind of flavor right of travel that are in the ceilings of the building. So each building has its own unique kind of flavor right. So there was an arts and crafts building. There was a better living center which was showcasing washing machines and refrigerators.
Speaker 2:That was like the Epcot Center. When I was a kid it was like the future.
Speaker 3:Things that made your life really advanced at the time and over the years. Exhibition Place then started merging, not just being a summer destination but also incorporating other events and activities throughout the year and over time over 100, almost 40 years. We have like a sisterhood with the canadian national exhibition association. They run their fair, an exhibition place was formed and now we are our cousins. We're distinctly different and they're a client of ours and we run the grounds itself. But it's a it's a little mini city in the middle of toronto. We have a variety of permanent tenants here, we have hotels, we have nightclubs, we have banquet halls, we have horse riding lessons and the largest convention center in the country.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that's one thing to highlight as well, because the Enercare Center even though we're here at the uh automotive building, the entercare center, is just a short walk away. I mean, really it's just across the street and there's like a million square feet of space in that. I've been to the many events there. But entercare, tell us a little bit about I guess, the uh, the structure of the group and specifically entercare, like that uh branding and that partnership, uh, because obviously they they're a sponsor right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, explain that connection because obviously they they're a sponsor right yeah, right explain that connection, because I think we live in a more interesting world now, where buildings used to be called the automotive building, but now so many stadiums have been given other names. It'd be helpful if you give us a bit of overview of the inner care center sure so.
Speaker 3:The inner care center is canada's largest convention and exhibition facility, for a million square feet. Um, we're actually physically connected underground to the automotive building.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Canadian winters, better remember that we look at it as a complex.
Speaker 3:And you know, years ago we decided it was originally called the National Trade Center and we decided to go after a naming sponsor. And you know originally it was Direct Energy, who was then acquired by Enercare. But the unique thing about the naming sponsorship for us is that we actually earmarked all of the monies from the naming sponsorship to sustainability. So you know it wasn't just a cash deal where we would be saying, just pay us money to have your name on the building. We actually took that money and you know it was $7 million. It wasn't a small amount of money at the time and we earmarked that for innovations, for sustainability projects. So we actually put that to a really great use for the community.
Speaker 2:Right, and now one thing I also wanted to ask you. I know we talked about your background, but in terms of your role then, as being the general manager, tell us a little bit about what you oversee, given the complexity of this operation and all the buildings and all these events. What is your role comprised of? And tell us a little bit about the team that supports and is around you as well.
Speaker 3:Of course. So my role is really responsible for all the convention and exhibition venues across the site and I have with me an incredible team. So my portfolio, I guess you could say, includes sales and marketing, transportation, security, event management, production management. So I'm really the front line aspect that deals with our clients and the public as it relates to conventions, meetings and exhibitions, and I have a colleague who's the general manager of operations and he takes care of the plant and all of the physical aspects of that and his whole team. We actually have to divide and conquer here because we are such a large and complex space and we look at that portfolio as to our areas of expertise. So I came from, you know, the side of meetings, conventions, tourism, and that's my area of expertise.
Speaker 2:Well, that's helpful context, because we just sat down with Suzanne, who all of our listeners just heard from, who is the CEO of GPTA, and she flew in from New York, and this is. You know, I love showcasing Toronto to any visitors that are coming in. If it's obviously, it's my home city. You know, I travel half the time and I've lived in several other countries, but this is home for me and I love bringing people to this part of the city as well because, as you highlighted, the waterfront is just across the street from us and it's especially beautiful this time of the year. It's especially beautiful this time of the year, and so when people come in from New York and see our city, this is where we want to showcase. We want to showcase the downtown and the waterfront, especially when we've grown up in the suburbs and we love the city so much.
Speaker 2:So one of the things I wanted to ask you too is when you partner with someone like GBTA, how do those relationships come about? Because I mean, for me, I've always been someone that's just attending an event here, and when I found out because GBTA and Destination Toronto were the ones that kindly brought in Travel Trends to be here for this event and I'm thrilled to be attending a number of the sessions. But I'm just curious how those relationships are formed. So when GBTA reached out to you and your team that they were interested in holding the venue here this year, how do those partnerships come about for you?
Speaker 3:It's a great question because people don't understand how things come about. They just assume events happen. I wish it was that easy. Maybe I wouldn't have a job if that was the case.
Speaker 3:But we have a really dynamic sales team that is out in market looking for new opportunities to bring to the city of Toronto and also to Exhibition Place. And so you know, through attending international events or trade missions, different trade shows for industry associations, we meet with candidates that we think would be an appropriate fit for our building and then we work with partners right, we work with Destination Toronto, for example, on opportunities that may come to the destination and then we bid within the destination. So it's a very competitive aspect of bringing in new business to the city for meetings and conventions. So GBTA was one of those that came through Destination Toronto, our partner, and it was a joint bid process with ourselves and also with Hotel X, who is our on-site hotel, to make sure that we could accommodate the event of this size and magnitude in the right venue.
Speaker 2:One of the challenges previously, as you're well aware, is there wasn't accommodation right on site within Exhibition Place. But there's lots of accommodation very close by, because we're very close to the downtown core, but now there's a landmark hotel. Tell us a little bit about that, because I have spoken to two colleagues earlier today that were raving about Hotel X, and one person who commented that they had like a 12-hour sleep and the best sleep of their life, and I was like I guess I need to stay there at some point because I'm certainly not getting my bed at home, but clearly there's something about Hotel X.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:You know, when we opened the building of National Trade Center, we knew that we needed a destination hotel that was adjacent to the building and, as you know, they aren't easy to come by.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of development opportunities in the city and we wanted a hotel.
Speaker 3:So, you know, we decided that we were going to put out an RFP for a hotel property and we were so fortunate to be working with a gentleman out of New York, henry Callan, who's an independent, and he saw the vision of Exhibition Place.
Speaker 3:He saw the vision of what we were doing for the automotive building, for example, turning it into a beautiful meeting facility and he jumped on board and he built this exquisite luxury property which is now physically connected to the automotive building, the automotive building, and they really do provide not only, you know, fantastic rooms but also probably the best customer service, I would say in the city within all the properties. They've recently just done a great expansion opportunity with us where they're going to be building a second hotel property just next door to the first tower and that's going to be another 400 rooms and it's going to be a little more family uh, family oriented in nature, which was going to be great for the convention delegate as well. So we have kind of a dual price point that we can offer for the convention and meeting delegate, and then part of that is also going to be an esports facility oh, no, kidding, which is going to?
Speaker 3:be really cool, so it's going to be custom made for eSports and then have the ability to do concerts as well.
Speaker 2:Very cool.
Speaker 3:So just another element of the evolution of Exhibition Place.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, you just highlighted another memory for me. It was coming down for rock concerts.
Speaker 2:I saw Kiss perform here, many years ago, and so, yeah, this is where, like it's a hallowed ground for many people that are from the greater Toronto area, because there's always been something happening at the C&E or exhibition place that they're drawn to, and I guess this is where, finally, I get to sit down with someone that has so much knowledge and expertise on this area and this space, and one of the things I'm keen to be able to ask you when you look at these types of collaborations you're doing, gbta being one great example you guys have gone out to market. You're bringing in global partners to Toronto. It is the number one entertainment destination in Canada, and so that's not only a reflection of the population of Toronto, but that's also all that inbound people flying into the city for events that are hosted here, and I know you guys have some major events coming up. The World Cup is one example that we're all very excited about that Toronto is going to be a part of, and we were just talking about the hotel.
Speaker 2:What are some of the things that draw people to Exhibition Place? What were some of the reasons why GBTA chose to host their venue here? I think it's perfect for them and, as I was saying, I was thrilled when I found out that it was going to be here at the automotive building specifically. But what are some of the things that draw people to Exhibition Place to host their events?
Speaker 3:I think one of the major things is the flexibility that we can offer. So we can offer events in different aspects. So we can offer meetings and conventions a more hotel-like environment, like we are today here in the automotive building with the ballrooms and meeting room component. We can also offer the flexibility of adding on to your event, also offer the flexibility of adding on to your event. So if you have a big exhibit component and you required more space or you have a growth plan, we can grow that event into an inner care center, for example, because it's physically attached and we found we've had a lot of our clients starting small and then having a platform in which to grow over the years, either in rotation or as an annualized basis. So the flexibility is really important. And then we build in a number of other factors.
Speaker 3:So we talked a little bit about sustainability. It's a little close to my heart, but because we're so committed to sustainability, we actually embed those aspects into the meeting or into the building envelope itself. So what we find is clients are coming to us looking for a green meeting and they don't have to do anything because we've already done it for them. So we've already incorporated all the aspects into the venue itself, and how we divert waste and how we create energy and how we heat and cool the building, and it's an automatic for them. So, where it's on their checklist, they don't have to do anything more than what we're already offering, because we're already kind of best in industry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want to dive into that actually right now because when I was speaking to Suzanne, I was asking her a few questions about sustainability and how they advocate on behalf of business travel organizations. They advocate on behalf of business travel organizations and they have a very important role to play in helping organizations make sustainable business choices and we're certainly seeing. One of the themes of our Travel Trends podcast was how has traveler behavior changed post-pandemic? And we've certainly seen a rise in conscientiousness that what didn't exist prior to the pandemic partly because of what we all went through during that time, and then seeing the impact of when people weren't traveling on the environment and communities, and all of a sudden then seeing destinations overwhelmed again, like Venice and areas that are overheated and over-touristed at certain times of the year, and it made travelers that much more conscientious of their decision making. So you have, you know, websites like bookingcom that now have added that layer of decision making to the consumer and I'm very encouraged by this.
Speaker 2:So every time I have a travel industry executive on the podcast, I'm always asking about sustainability because I personally find it very important and ultimately I think we all should, because the only way we're going to continue to live on this planet is if we take better care of it and leave it better for future generations, and there's a lot to be done there, and I know this is something that is very important to Exhibition Place, and it's interesting to me because, although our podcast is about travel trends, people are traveling to come to an event place like Exhibition Place and they're deciding whether or not they hold their events at certain venues based on their carbon footprint, and so one of the things I noticed, laura, as I was preparing for our conversation, is that Exhibition Place is on track for net zero carbon by 2050, which is going to come up all too quickly. So it's a pretty bold goal, but a very important one. So take us through, if you wouldn't mind, some of the initiatives that you have underway to be able to achieve that.
Speaker 3:So sustainability is really ingrained in our in our DNA, and we actually have been on this journey for 20 years. So we started in 2004, kind of before green was cool. We started. We started looking at how we can be more sustainable in our operations. When you think about it, we have a million square feet of convention space. That's a lot to heat and cool.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of waste, and so we embarked on this journey way back in 2004 and how we originally looked at waste diversion, how we could reduce the amount of waste going to landfill, originally looked at waste diversion, how we could reduce the amount of waste going to landfill. So for us, when COP26 happened and they brought about an opportunity for the events industry to sign on to the net zero carbon events pledge, we were one of the first to sign up and it was important to us because it was already what we do, and so we signed up as one of the first convention centers in the world and we then embarked on creating our roadmap and not to get too far into the weeds, but we wanted to make sure that we were satisfying different elements of either energy creation, energy conservation or waste diversion, and that's how we've kind of broken ourselves up into the three pillars. And you know, you'll see, we have a wind turbine on site. We create our own wind energy. We have solar PV panels on our buildings. We create solar energy. We divert waste we're diverting upwards of 70% of our waste from our meetings, conventions and exhibitions and we do that on behalf of our client. It is not an added burden to our client.
Speaker 3:And then we look at ways that we can green our building. So this building that we're in is a LEED Silver Certified building. It's, in fact, the only heritage building in the world that has a LEED Silver Certification and while she may be over 100 years old, she looks pretty good as a building. So you know, everything in this building is sustainable. So everything from recycled carpets to our furnishings, which is made from recyclable materials and is recyclable upon the event of the end of life for those pieces of furniture. But you wouldn't know it. It is a beautiful, modern. It feels like a hotel inside and really it does. It's a proving ground to show meeting planners that you can be sustainable and still be designed forward.
Speaker 2:Interesting. The other thing I wanted to ask you, just given your how you where our conversation started, laura, about how you know you never expected to be sitting here in this GM role at Exhibition Place all these years later. Clearly, you've learned a lot. You've shared so much with us. For someone out there that's listened to this, that's been inspired from our conversation and I'm saying specifically like the, the next generation or younger generation that is studying, wants to be in the tourism space or just fascinated by some of the things you've highlighted, what recommendations would you have for them to follow in your footsteps or to be able to pursue a role like you have?
Speaker 3:Certainly, coming into the tourism and hospitality arena is always exciting. Coming into the tourism and hospitality arena is always exciting. I think the events side of the business the convention and events side of the business is relatively unknown. Most of us fall into the business in some way and then discover probably the most incredible career opportunities you could have ever imagined, and I think I put myself in in in that aspect.
Speaker 3:The best part of being here at Exhibition and working in this industry is that every day is different. Every day is an opportunity to learn something or to share information and you have to be flexible to be able to react to what may be coming down the pipe. So we're working with you know it's a people business. We're working with clients, we're working with all different types of events. You learn all about the economy and different aspects of the industries because we change every week. Every week there's just a new event or activity coming in and I think probably my best advice to the next generation is put your hand up and get involved, volunteer, get involved in your industry associations, meet people and volunteer for projects that will be probably outside your job description.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because that's where you learn and grow and you can discover a new path. And that's probably the best thing that I did was I was open to new opportunities and I put my hand up for projects that were well outside my area of expertise and I learned, I mean in this building. I put my hand up for working with the architects for the interior design of this building and you know, it's one of my points of pride. I love when clients come into the building and are like, wow, this is an amazing space and I had something to do with that and I learned an incredible amount where in my role at that time as Director of Sales and Marketing. That's not in my job description, but it was okay because it allowed me to understand from a client's perspective what they were looking for in a building and how we could create an experience that would lend itself to success for their meetings and events. So put your hand up, get involved, volunteer.
Speaker 2:That's great advice and it's interesting because, as our listeners would have heard, I asked Suzanne a similar question and one of the things that you have clearly both in your careers is you take initiative, you just like, you put your hand up, and I think that's really sound advice because everyone wants to advance quickly but oftentimes, as I've highlighted to our listeners in the past, you've got to put in the work and you've got to. You know you've got to learn your craft and you certainly have. And I've learned a lot from our conversation and it's been fascinating for me and actually I'm keen to chat with Laura as well afterwards, because one thing I just wanted to highlight to all of our listeners and I pay respect to what you do is that events are hard. Events are complex, they're time-consuming, they're high-risk. There's so much riding on an event in person.
Speaker 2:I'm not an event guy. I love attending events, but I have the greatest respect for people who can manage and pull off events. So I like the way you describe the fact because it's always going to be new. Like being here at GBTA and then next week you'll be getting ready for another conference in a totally different industry and you've got entertainment and you have sports and like no, it has to be so dynamic and exciting to be here, but at the same time very intense and very stressful, I'm sure.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:Because you're-.
Speaker 3:Stressful, I mean in a great way.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean, it takes a certain kind of person to thrive on that level of stress. I mean, we're all a little. We like a little adventure. I think in our industry and we are we're dealing with clients who this event, for them, is the event they've worked all year, sometimes longer, to make sure they can produce for this event. We have an event next week. They they're working on this event. This is the only thing that's important to them. And so you know, from our standpoint for customer service and delivering service, we have to make sure that we are meeting and exceeding whatever their expectation is. And that's what makes it really interesting, because you're dealing with people who are under a lot of stress and we're trying to make them look good every step of the way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really cool. I've been such an enjoyable conversation, Laura. The one thing I want to make sure we do finish off with is for all of those listeners out there that are all of a sudden, have checked out the website and are like learning more information about Exhibition Place and keen to partner with you or connect with you directly. Where would you direct them?
Speaker 3:I would direct them either to our social channels at ExplaceTO or through our website at explaceonca. Those are the best vehicles and platforms to communicate to us and, as I said, we're here 365 days, seven days a week.
Speaker 2:Well, I look forward to one day we do an AI summit. We do it virtually, as many of our listeners know, but I look forward to one day doing the event in person here at Exhibition Place, once we actually are able to fill the place and bring the sponsors along with us. But I certainly would love to work with you together on a future event and host it here. That would be particularly special. So, thank you, laura, a real wonderful conversation. I look forward to keeping in touch. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 2:I now have the pleasure to speak to Heather Neal here at the GBTA conference in Toronto. I'm so thrilled that Destination Toronto brought us together for this amazing event and, as you've heard from our two first guests, you've got a great background on GBTA, the exhibition place where we are here at the Automotive Building, and now we have a chance to bring in the Managing Director of Destination Toronto to get a bit understanding of her role and this organization that I've come to know and just keep discovering ways that you guys are involved in the economy for Toronto and bringing tourism to this city. But first of all, welcome, heather.
Speaker 4:It's great to have you on this special spotlight episode of Travel Trends.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much. I'm excited to be here Fantastic and thank you again for your team for the opportunity to be here. So I'm keen for everyone to know more about Destination Toronto. But before we do, tell everyone a little bit more about your background. They certainly got an understanding from me there about your role and what it is that you do as the managing director of sales, but tell us a little bit about how you got into this industry in the first place.
Speaker 4:Well, like most people I think most people in the event space kind of stumble into the event space, quite frankly, take a left turn in their initial career plans coming out of university and find this amazing industry that we call events. So I spent my first 22 years in the corporate space on the general contractor side for GES and led various teams there on the operations and sales side before I moved over to Destination Toronto leading the sales team for business events.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. And then Destination Toronto itself. How would you describe the organization?
Speaker 4:You know, we are important to the community because we look at driving economic growth, bringing visitors into the city on the business event side and on the leisure side. We have two dedicated teams at Destination Toronto. One focuses on business events, which is the team I lead, and one focuses more on leisure and visitors and growing the economic impact of the city.
Speaker 2:And now Toronto. We both call this city home, and many of our listeners know that I'm Canadian. I'm based in Toronto, I've spent most of my career working internationally and traveling internationally, so I've been fortunate enough to be based here for a good part of my career. But I've lived in Australia, I've lived in the US, the UK, lived in Vancouver, and so Toronto holds a special place to me because I wasn't born here, but I was raised here.
Speaker 2:I was born in England, as maybe some of our listeners know as well, but I grew up in Toronto, like so many people that are new to this country, and so I'm an immigrant as well, and one of the things I've always loved about the city is just how diverse it is, not just in terms of the people that you get to go to school with, but the people that you work with.
Speaker 2:When you look around a boardroom in Toronto, it really is very representative of cultures from around the world, and that to me, I think, is a real competitive advantage for the city, for the types of individuals that immigrate here, the entrepreneurial work ethic, and so there's a lot I love about Toronto, and I don't think I've quite shared that with all of our listeners, but I think it's important in the context of our conversation today because I'm keen to get your take on that as well. And the one last thing I'll just add to that is that one of my favorite. When I was in university I took a journalism course and I was subscribed to the Globe and Mail, and I'm still an avid reader of the Globe and Mail, which is one of our best newspapers, a national newspaper and is read internationally as well, and one of the journalists had highlighted that Toronto may not be a world-class city like Paris or London the world, but certainly it's not yet on the scale of New York.
Speaker 2:Some people call it Canada's New York, but tell everyone a little bit more about Toronto itself and some of the events and tourism activity that comes to the city.
Speaker 4:Listen. Toronto in and of itself is a vibrant and exciting city. People live and work in our downtown core, which makes us very unusual compared to similar sized US cities. Toronto is always alive. It doesn't matter whether you go out at eight in the morning or whether you go out at 11 at night. There's people around walking, it's safe. It's bustling because of the work and live mix in Toronto. In terms of the business events community in particular, one of the coolest things about Toronto is we have two convention centers downtown. It's unusual Again, a lot of cities don't have that. We have both the Metro Toronto Convention Center and the Intercare Center within a couple of kilometers of each other. Surrounding those two venues are over 114 hotels with 20,000 plus hotel rooms. So we are well positioned to serve the business events community that comes into the city on a regular basis.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great, and as we sit here, like the waterfront is across from us, we're in the C&E building.
Speaker 2:We talked on these last two conversations about the C&E and I think it's one of the things that always stands out to me when people come to Toronto for the first time.
Speaker 2:And a lot of people here at the GBTA event are from the US and certainly like New York City, and we've seen a number of people over this morning and, I know, over the next couple of days that are traveling here from the US and the thing I always hear is like I had no idea how awesome Toronto is as a city, because it is a living, functioning downtown core to your point, with convention centers, with restaurants, with so much to do, which is why bringing together in-person events is such a perfect thing to do in Toronto, and especially on the revival of that whole industry, and I know that's an important thing for Destination Toronto and that's what brings us all together.
Speaker 2:So tell us a little bit more about, I guess, the revival of in-person events and what you've seen and the resurgence, because that's always been the focus of our podcast is what traveler behavior looks like post pandemic. That's how we we started this show and you know, even though we're three years past, that you know many of these consumer trends are consistent, that people love the fact that they can get back together in person, and so we've seen a strong resurgence in in-person events. So tell us a little bit about how you're seeing that shift in the industry, and specifically as it relates to business travel.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely. So. I'll wordsmith back a little bit what you said, because I really like how you framed it as a revival or a resurgence. That is truthfully what's happening in business events for Toronto. It's not a shift, because even pre-COVID we were a leader in business events, a city, a tier one city, that people desired to bring their business events to. So you know, as the economic center of Canada, our business travel community is of the strongest of the country and getting back to that in the last couple of years to post pandemic is is really where we shine and we're grateful to be back in this place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting. Even when I had international roles, I'd be living in Vancouver, I was working at Carlson Wagley. We'd come back to Toronto and all of a sudden I'd be at the airport. I grew up in Mississauga, so for me, the airport and that whole area of Toronto and I was just discussing that with one of your colleagues and it's one of the things that I always found fascinating was coming back to Toronto for business meetings, even though I'm from here and even G Adventures we used to hold our G stock every year and internationally all of these leaders in travel would come to Toronto.
Speaker 2:We base ourselves in the city. We might go to Niagara Falls or up to Collingwood, but you were bringing people to the city for the first time. So it has everything to offer as a business hub. I always say to people it's not the aesthetically beautiful city that Vancouver is and, but it's got so much to offer Once you get into this city all the neighborhoods. So tell us a little bit about these business events that are coming back. Obviously, we're here for GBTA and everyone's heard about this amazing organization and how many people have come together for this event. But tell us a little bit more about the business events that you guys are spearheading or partnering with to bring to Toronto.
Speaker 4:Well, without getting into names of specific events, perhaps I'll focus a little bit on sectors that are strong for Toronto, because our business community is so strong in the city. There are certain sectors that attract big meetings into Toronto. Life sciences and education are two of the larger sectors that are prevalent in bringing their business events from around the globe into Toronto. Finance, advanced manufacturing, food and beverage type meetings all of these are really commonplace to have happen in Toronto because we have the business community present in the city that can support those meetings. Toronto has more than a quarter of Canada's largest business headquarters based right here in our city. We have a startup culture that's really changing how the world works. So this concentration of innovation, of businesses, of leaders, presents a large pool of potential meeting attendees, meeting sponsors and potential convention speakers on a variety of these topics, in these leading sectors. So that's why it makes Toronto such an attractive place to bring your meetings from around Canada or globally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's really interesting about that? I had a chance to meet Andrew Weir, who is the President and CEO of Destination Toronto, someone you work with very closely, and Andrew and I connected at the Virtuoso event in Las Vegas and we got paired in a meeting with media and industry and instantly we had that moment to be like we're both from Toronto and how can we have never met before. But what was interesting to me about that and this shows you how the travel industry works in many ways is that you have to put yourself out there to have those sorts of opportune meetings, and that's really what then leads to having someone like Andrew at an event like that, extolling the virtues of what an amazing city Toronto is to court travel companies and conferences and businesses and we were hearing a bit about that no-transcript in your role and how the organization functions to bring events like this together.
Speaker 4:You know it differs in different parts of the world.
Speaker 4:To be quite honest, you know, event producers that are based outside of North America have a much longer process in terms of qualifying destinations and their rotation for destinations they consider can often mean that Toronto is only looked at once every 20 years.
Speaker 4:It's really important to demonstrate in your first go-round why Toronto is the place to be and how we can connect with their audience with our sector strength.
Speaker 4:Likewise, meetings that come out of the United States Rotations into Canada aren't as frequent as we would all like. So when a US association is looking at Toronto as their destination, we make sure we put our best foot forward so they understand the products, the diversity and the support within the city, both from a financial perspective and also from a sector perspective in supporting driving big attendance when they bring their event to Toronto. It's kind of like when American organizers look at Toronto, they consider us an international destination, so this is their dipping their toe into an international light experience, and that's really where we shine in bringing US events into the country. We also have Canadian organizers who rotate their events all across the country. We certainly can't forget them. They're a valuable part of our business event all across the country. We certainly can't forget them. They're a valuable part of our business and we want to ensure that Toronto is always a stop on their rotational scale within the country.
Speaker 2:I'm a huge Blue Jays fan and I love going to see games. Despite the fact that they've had a couple of tough years, I'm still. Since I was a kid, I went to Blue Jays games. It's always been my team and I've been there for the opening of the Sky Dome, when it before was called the Rogers Center, the all-star game. I still remember this moment where they opened and closed the Dome. It was the first year the Dome was open and they got the all-star game that year and they subsequently went to World Series. That was the glory era for us Blue Jays fans. But when they opened and closed the Dome and they to us that the world was watching, we were all standing on our feet and applauding and so excited that we had this retractable roof in Toronto, which we clearly need given our weather.
Speaker 2:And but the latest iterations of the blue Jays jerseys, these sort of city connect, as they're called that, the MLB, major league baseball has been rolling out in different cities.
Speaker 2:It reflects the Toronto skyline and diverse, and the tagline is diversity is our strength, and I think that you know there's so much that Toronto has to offer, whether it be the business, travel community or tourists to the city, and so I'm always keen to understand how it comes to be like that authenticity and like the spirit of Toronto, with cultures and ideas like that's exactly what draws people together and why we have, you know, a big AI hub and a tech hub, and you know, great universities and so much to offer, which is why we're running our event here in Toronto and I know so many other organizations choose to. But how do you bring that to life in terms of you know, these business events and connecting with the community? So it's obviously one thing to have all of those virtues as a brand, but then how do you actually get them out into the world and specifically connect with business events?
Speaker 4:I mean, toronto is a global city, there's no question, but it's distinctly Canadian and we have this unique blend of international influence mixed with unmistakable homegrown talent. Diversity is our true identity. It's not just lip service, it is who we are, and innovation is our driving force in the city, and that, in and of itself, are the two pieces that pull together the business community, along with the products and services in the city to support said meetings.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then I guess, when that comes together with you mentioned the, it's not just a tagline it's difficult to otherwise summarize it Otherwise it's more of a. It's the vibe that we want to give off as to what to expect from our city that we're very welcoming. This is something that I also hear that much more today, just given some of the challenges that are happening globally and geopolitically, that I've heard a number of Americans that have asked me, you know, about traveling to Canada and the first thing it was, like you know, we are arms open to travelers from the US coming to Canada.
Speaker 2:We love Americans.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 2:And so we and we see so many American license plates coming across, especially the summertime, this time of the year to come for sporting events and festivals, and and so I just wanted to reiterate that from my point of view, and I'm sure you feel the same way that for any Americans that are right now hesitant and traveling internationally or coming across to Canada, please come. We were very excited and I love hearing these stories I'm sure you've heard some of these as well where an American comes across the border and, you know, buys everyone breakfast at a restaurant and like there's, you know, there's such kinship between our two countries and the people. And the one thing that I, you know I I've got many great friends in the US and, and so I'm always encouraging them to come up to Toronto. So how, how important is the US market for, for travelers to Toronto? I guess that's one thing I'd like to ask you, given your your vantage point and certainly how I feel about the whole situation at the moment.
Speaker 4:Extensively important and we are open for business and want them to continue coming, whether it's for business events, especially for business events, but also for leisure travel and vacations. You know 60% of the United States lives within a 90 minute direct flight to Toronto, so we are the largest hub of attendees coming into this country. So vitally important. That hasn't changed. Our dollar is on fire for them right now. We encourage them to continue traveling more, actually, increase your travel. We are here with open arms for you to come and visit our city.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I totally agree. You just made me laugh with that, because the stat that often gets touted around is that 90% of Canadians live within 100 miles of the US border, and there's an interesting geographical reason for that, and that's like the arable land that is actually possible for us to be able to get food out of the ground before the winter comes, in particular is, like you know, along the parallel. So we need to exist along that line, and so I have never heard it described the way you just did, Heather, is that actually 60% of Americans live within a 90 minute flight. That's the first time I've heard that. I'm going to use that again because that's. But you're right when you think about the Eastern seaboard of the US in particular, and that's certainly where we get a lot of travelers from. But the other thing I wanted to come back to is our community in Toronto. So you know, speaking to Americans, encouraging Americans to travel obviously is certainly important, but when we think about how we want them to travel here and the types of communities that we have within the city and how we support them.
Speaker 2:I'm a huge fan of local markets.
Speaker 2:Many of our listeners know that, so I love St Lawrence Market, I love Kensington Market and I know you have to collaborate closely with the communities in Toronto as you look to bring more businesses, because you obviously want to do it the right way. So, whether it's working with local businesses or artists or various innovators in Toronto, that will make a terrific visitor experience. So how does Destination Toronto work with local communities in the city to achieve that balance of bringing in the right travelers with the right way that when people get here, you've partnered with all these businesses that they get to benefit from? You know the tourists traveling to our city and then travelers leave and say I love Toronto, I love that city. Or a baseball player my favorite thing is a baseball player comes here for a visit when they're considering signing for Toronto and they're like I love this city, why would I? I'm happy to come to Canada because they actually get a chance to come here and know our people and our city. But yeah, how do you work with local businesses?
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know, as an organization, we certainly do our best to be involved in local community events. Attend the businesses in person, stay engaged, be on the lookout for new opportunities that connect people and our organization. Many of the new experiences we help craft for visitors come from our personal experiences from our team members across the city. We rely on an array of diverse businesses that make up our tourism economy, and we want to make sure that we're not only giving meeting planners and visitors access to a variety of options, but also showcasing the talent that exists within our community. In terms of specific community outreach here in Toronto, one of the things we've adopted recently is revamping our membership program. Strategy behind this for 2025 was to make it more accessible so we could allow for broader participation across the community for different business categories. This in of itself, helps us elevate different events and services in the city so that they're available to people who are considering Toronto. The new membership program really is designed to be barrier-free, foster inclusivity and build an authentic reflection of the community that exists in Toronto.
Speaker 2:Well, what's interesting there is that, when I think about artists that travel to Toronto as well I know I've mentioned sports a couple of times given my big fascination with baseball, but I was actually on a flight once from Toronto to LA because I was traveling a lot for work and I was in the business section, which I'm often fortunate to do when I'm traveling for work but sitting behind me was Slash from Guns N' Roses Cool.
Speaker 2:It was super cool for me because, as I grew up skateboarding listening to Guns N' Roses and he was awesome Super cool for me because, as I grew up skateboarding listening to Guns N' Roses that was my childhood in Mississauga and those albums are very familiar to me and I've seen them perform. But anyway, he was very much dressed like Slash. He was not trying to cover, he had his hat on and he tipped it down and he he slept on the plane and I waited to my opportunity when we got to la to just at least say hello and meet him, and I ended up having a fantastic chat with him for, uh, about five or ten minutes, uh after we landed we got a photo together and he was just telling me how much he loves playing the city of toronto and it seemed genuine.
Speaker 2:I'm sure you know rock stars get on stage and say, you know, welcome toronto. And everyone goes crazy. But it was very sincere, like he was saying it's one of his favorite places to play in the world because of the crowd and the reaction and he just loves the city of Toronto and it was heartening for me to hear that because obviously this is, you know, a legend within the music industry. So I wanted to ask you, on that note, when you think about working with musicians or various artists, how does Destination Toronto get involved in that capacity to bring, you know, obviously business travelers is big, but like organizing events and trying to bring in these big acts that are going to bring that money for people to the city, because people travel into Toronto to come and see these artists when they're performing here- Sure, you know whether we're working with local musicians or big name talent from outside the city.
Speaker 4:Agree, our role is to get them here and get the visitors here so that we can leverage the beautiful venues we have in the city to showcase amazing talent from around the world, and that within our city we have a wonderful local network that is energetic and partners both with agencies around the world to bring that talent in and also to leverage local unknowns that may be here but may end up providing a wonderful big show.
Speaker 2:Given Destination Toronto's important role in bringing these big events to the city. We have a number of large, large scale events coming up. I mean, toronto just continues to grow as a as you referred to, as a world class destination, and I certainly like that distinction, because there are very few cities in the world that attract the events at the scale that you'll see in Toronto. I mean, one thing that most people don't even realize is that Toronto is in the greater Toronto area. We always refer to this as the GTA, given a lot of people grow up outside the city but still very much connected to the ecosystem that is Toronto. So the greater Toronto area makes up about 10 million people and this is like the third largest urban center in North America third or fourth, depending exactly how you measure it, or look at the geographic area, forth, depending exactly how you measure it, or, you know, look at the geographic area.
Speaker 2:But the point of that is is that you know when you think about new york or la, I mean toronto is right up there in terms of what the draw potential is for artists and for events. So that's, that's something I just wanted to highlight because I think most people just and myself until I I learned that stat. It was like well, that's why we have all the sports teams and that's why we have all these amazing venues. It's like we have the commercial power to be able to bring that scale of people together for a Taylor Swift concert, for example. But tell us some of the events that you have been involved in with, like local partnerships that have kind of helped elevate Toronto's global appeal. What are some of the big events that you guys have been involved in and what are some of the ones that are coming up?
Speaker 4:I think one of the most compelling in recent years in terms of a successful local partnership that has really helped elevate Toronto's overall appeal would have to be our inclusion in the Michelin Guide and our partnership with Michelin.
Speaker 4:So we're on our third edition of the Michelin Guide and our partnership with Michelin. So we're on our third edition of the Michelin Guide in 2024. It featured selections from over 100 restaurants and 30 different cuisine types. Toronto was lucky enough to have two fully engaged Michelin star restaurants, 15 with one Michelin star, 23 at the bid, gourmand level, 61 recommended and then one green star awarded for commitment to sustainable practices within the restaurant. So you know, with over 9,000 restaurants in our city, this was really an important partnership for us to tell our story, to elevate further on a global scale why Toronto's cuisine can't be missed. It gives us that international distinction and really is a testament to our strength in the food scene further on a global scale why Toronto's cuisine can't be missed. It gives us that international distinction and really is a testament to our strength in the food scene.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yorkville is one of my favorite neighborhoods. I know a couple of restaurants in Yorkville got that designation and I always found it frustrating that Michelin Star had not recognized Toronto in the past. And I think this is where to the earlier point about you know it's my favorite city, but not necessarily on the world class, but it's becoming that more and more as the city continues to grow. I mean, it's been one of the fastest growing cities in North America over the last decade with, you know, new condos being built up and immigration levels and and so we certainly have a great diversity of cuisine and world-class chefs that choose to make Toronto home. And I know we also have some big events coming up. I was actually talking about the World Cup earlier to Elizabeth and what some of the plans there, with Exhibition Place being involved and BMO Field hosting that. What are some of the other big events that people can look forward to traveling to Toronto for?
Speaker 4:Yeah, certainly. Fifa kicks off next June and we are super excited to be one of the cities hosting games for the World Cup. Looking ahead as well into 2026, the Toronto Tempo, the first WNBA team from outside of the US, will officially begin their season in Toronto in 2026. You know a feather in our cap to have yet another professional sports team that I'm very certain the community of Toronto and surrounding area will support. Myself, yes, a longtime Blue Jays fan, but more so hockey is my game of choice. So I'm a nervous Leafs fan at this stage. Delighted that we've made it as far as we have, and fingers crossed that we'll get to the next stage, and I have no doubt that the WNBA will deliver on all cylinders for Toronto, as our other sports teams continue to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting. I still remember when Raptors came to Toronto and Vince Carter and that whole exciting era, and I was one of the first people when the Raptors won the world championship. I was eagerly celebrating on the streets of Toronto and that victory parade was just extraordinary and it just shows how an organization comes to Toronto, the community embraces and basketball to your point about mentioning the Toronto Temple and the WNBA. Being a baseball fan growing up in the city, my parents from England they wanted us to experience more of like a North American sport, so they put us in baseball not in hockey, interestingly enough, although I made sure I put my son in hockey. But our daughter played basketball and loved basketball, and basketball, as I know from coaching baseball with the Raptors, has had record enrollment for these next generations of kids playing basketball Far more kids play basketball in Toronto than they do baseball and so it's perfect timing to introduce a women's team, and so I was excited when the name got announced because I actually really do like Toronto Tempo, I like the whole and I like the branding and I think it'll be a great addition to the city for sure, and I think a lot of people will visit Toronto to come and see women's basketball at that elite level, and so it's exciting for us to be in a place where you don't have to travel to those things. People travel to us.
Speaker 2:So, heather, there's a couple of things I want to ask you, and one of them is that, as we sit here together at GBTA and I have actually heard about their event that's in Denver later this year that has 6,000 people I've come to know the GBTA over the past several weeks in preparing for this and then getting a chance to sit down with Suzanne, the CEO, who was extraordinary. I found her really fascinating, a great person to interview, much like yourself, and Elizabeth as well. So I think having these three conversations together has been really complimentary. But the thing that stood out for me about GBTA is just how important Toronto is for their annual event. I think people have gotten a pretty good sense on this discussion about why they might consider bringing their event or conference to Toronto.
Speaker 2:But what else would you add to that for someone listening to this? That their eyes have been open to wait a second? Gbta goes there. Wait a second. There's this exhibition place or all these things about Toronto. I didn't realize what would you say to those someone listening to this that might be interested in bringing their event or conference to Toronto.
Speaker 4:You know, I would say we're the best choice for organizations who have a growth strategy around international. Toronto is an excellent place to dip your toe into an international light destination. If you're an American association, american corporation or just another corporation worldwide that's looking to get into the North American events space, toronto offers that international slash North American opportunity and with that it's easy to get to. You know, I mentioned earlier direct flights from from 200 to 180 destinations. 60% of the US can get here in less than 90 minutes by a direct flight to international airports. This makes the ease of business travel very quick and efficient, which is important to people who are moving around the world for business every day.
Speaker 4:Once you get to Toronto, you're just organically welcomed by the diverse multicultural population. You know 53% of Torontonians were born outside of Canada. This isn't lip service, this is actually who we are. Fun fact, my husband is Australian. He is part of that 53%. You know I'm born and raised in Toronto. So you know, when people walk around our city, wherever they come from, they hear languages, they hear dialects that sound just like them. So it makes them feel welcome. You know, layered on top of that are two fabulous convention centers, over 20,000 hotel rooms. We have all of the products and services, plus a welcoming, organic, safe community to bring business events to Toronto. So it's the best choice, it's the only choice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, the great thing for me about being here at GBTA this week I was actually supposed to be in Australia at the ATE conference and one of the things that they kindly invited me to go over and to do a keynote, and that was originally the plan, but GBTA had reached out and I committed to doing this event and I'm so glad. I mean, I love Australia, but this is home and one of the things that was so great for me this week, given that I do travel so much for work, was I was able to travel 20 minutes from my house down here to Exhibition Place and to be able to interview people from around the world that have come here for this event, and I just I love being able to talk about our city no-transcript is probably your best place to go as it relates to meetings.
Speaker 4:Also, instagram at Destination Toronto Lots of great content in there to follow, to learn about the city, the vibe itself, and we look forward to welcoming you.
Speaker 2:That's great, thank you. And definitely the social channels. That's one of the things that stood out to me. You guys do a great job on Instagram in particular, and that's certainly where meeting people where they're at today to highlight all the amazing things that are happening around the city on the social channels, because I all of a sudden see something that I'm like you guys use the hashtag meet in Toronto and I often yeah, I see developments that I'm like, oh, I didn't realize that was coming up or that was going on. So I find it a great source of inspiration to stay connected to the city. But, heather, it's been a real pleasure. Thank you again to you and the Destination Toronto team, to Andrew, to Manisha, to all the amazing people that we've had a chance to work with at Destination Toronto to bring this special spotlight episode together. I certainly look forward to keeping in touch and continuing to promote this great city together and thank you again for joining us.
Speaker 4:Wonderful. Look forward to talking to you again soon.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much for joining us on this special event spotlight of travel trends focused on the GBTA hosted here in Toronto, canada. I hope you enjoyed the conversations we just had with Suzanne Newfung, the CEO of GBTA, as well as Laura Purdy, the Managing Director of Exhibition Place, and then we just finished off with Heather Neal, the Managing Director of Destination Toronto. If you want more information on GBTA, just check it out at gbtaorg. You'll be able to find information about their work in North America, specifically in Canada, as well as their business travel index, which you definitely need to check out, and you heard me talk to Suzanne about that. I'm going to be following that closely and I'm sure many of our listeners will as well.
Speaker 2:And don't forget, we do post clips and highlights on all of our social channels at Travel Trends Podcast, on Instagram, youtube and LinkedIn, so be sure to look out for updates there, and then we send out a monthly newsletter. So check out Travel Trends Podcastcom and subscribe for the latest update of our episodes and our travel plans for the next month. Thanks so much for joining us on this special event spotlight. Thanks again to the Destination Toronto team for bringing us in for this GBTA conference. It was a real pleasure to work with you and the team and I certainly look forward to being back for GBTA in 2026. Thanks again for joining us. Until next time, safe travels.
