Travel Trends with Dan Christian
#1 B2B Travel Podcast. If you are looking to stay ahead in the travel industry, this new podcast hits all the highlights! The Travel Trends Podcast is where industry leaders converge to share & shape the future. Whether you're an emerging entrepreneur, a seasoned industry executive, or a dedicated travel professional, you’ll be able to stay ahead in a rapidly evolving landscape.
Uncover valuable insights, innovative strategies, and meaningful connections that will elevate your travel business or career to new heights.
Travel Trends with Dan Christian
Lessons in Leadership & Operational Excellence with Ben Hall, CEO, AAT Kings
Join us for the final instalment in our Guided Touring series as we chat with Ben Hall, CEO of AAT Kings, Australia and New Zealand's leading guided touring provider. This episode dives into the legacy of AAT Kings, a 100-year-old tour company renowned for creating immersive experiences that celebrate authentic cultural connections and sustainability.
What You’ll Discover in This Episode:
- How AAT Kings evolved from a transportation service to a leader in guided tours across Australia and New Zealand.
- Why modern guided tours are far from inflexible, featuring customizable options and exclusive, hard-to-access experiences.
- The unique value local guides bring with personal anecdotes, historical context, and a deep understanding of the culture.
- Highlighted Indigenous experiences that connect travelers to the world’s oldest continuous culture, dating back over 60,000 years.
- Small group adventures with Inspiring Journeys, offering access to remote and pristine destinations.
- Sustainability efforts focusing on local community support, wildlife conservation, and environmental restoration.
- How technology enhances tours, with guest portals that allow travelers to personalize their journeys.
- The vast scale of Australia and how guided tours address logistical challenges for travelers who often underestimate distances.
- Immersive cultural experiences that connect travelers with local families, farms, and Indigenous communities.
- The role of travel directors, carefully selected for their expertise, people skills, and passion for sharing the local culture with guests.
Enjoy a fascinating discussion that highlights the innovation behind modern guided touring and explore how AAT Kings provides meaningful, sustainable, and memorable travel experiences.
👉 Listen to Lessons in Leadership & Operational Excellence Now
🔥 Season 5 Title Sponsors: TravelAI, Stay22, Propellic, Flight Centre, Collette, Flywire, Traveltek and Protect Group
The #1 B2B Travel Podcast Globally. Over 100 Episodes. Listeners in 125 countries. New Episodes Every Weds. Season 5 In Progress.
https://www.traveltrendspodcast.com/
The misconception sometimes of guided holidays is that it's you know you're set and you can't necessarily get off the path. But the structure these days is designed, that it is evolved to make sure that it's offering unique experiences that you can't find. It's making sure that we've got skilled people that are people orientated and can relate to people and therefore share great information around local stories, personal insights, the history, as well as the sights and the sounds of the destination. But they're bringing that to light. But they're also taking people to places that they wouldn't necessarily find if they were traveling on their own or looking in a guidebook.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone and welcome to Travel Trends. This is your host, dan Christian, and I'm thrilled to bring you the final installment of our multi-day tour guided series. And today we're going to be speaking to a longtime friend and colleague of mine, ben Hall. He is the CEO of AAT Kings, which is part of the Travel Corporation Group, and I got to know Ben over many years while working at the Travel Corporation. When he was running Contiki. He was the managing director in Europe. He then went on to run, as you'll hear in our conversation, tracoin, which is the operations side for Trafalgar, insight and Contiki all multi-day tour brands. So this guy really knows his stuff and is a complete expert when it comes to operations. But he also knows marketing. He knows sales, which is why he was able to take on the CEO role and move back to Australia where he's originally from. He's from Melbourne, but he lived in London for many years. But he got the opportunity about three years ago now to move back to Australia and he's based in Sydney. And I really wanted Ben to be part of the conversation because I have the utmost respect for what he's accomplished and I know how much he had to offer, and you'll hear that in our conversation today. So thank you, ben, for making the time for this, and I also thought it would round out our global conversation about multi-day tours, a category that I am very passionate about and I see a massive opportunity for, as you've heard over the course of this four-part series. I hope you enjoyed our discussion last week with Michael Edwards from Explore. I thought it was great to bring adventure into this and, as you'll hear today, that's actually part of the name of AT King, so it's been in there from the beginning, and then, of course, we had the team from Globus and Colette joining as well, so I really enjoyed bringing this series together. I hope each of you enjoyed and really benefited from that as well, and if you're interested for us to continue on the multi-day tour theme in season six, feel free to leave us comments or send us a note to let us know, because it's pretty clear to me that we should continue these conversations, but I always want to make decisions for our content based on what's going to be most beneficial for our listeners. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2:In today's fast-paced travel industry, businesses face constant challenges keeping up with new technologies, meeting ever-evolving customer expectations and promoting products effectively. The real struggle, managing it all in-house. That's where TravelTech steps in to transform your business. With over 25 years of experience, traveltech is one of the most trusted names in travel technology, offering tailored solutions to fit your unique needs. They make it easy to create seamless, bookable websites, manage and promote products and automate everyday tasks, giving your team more time to focus on what matters most your customers. Plus TravelTech is the go-to name in cruise technology, with cutting-edge solutions for tour operators as well. Plus TravelTech has just launched Tech Talk, a new podcast for travel professionals by travel professionals. Explore the stories behind the biggest innovations in travel. Visit TravelTechcom slash TravelTrends, or or tune into Tech Talk on Spotify and Apple. That's traveltechcom slash travel trends and Tech Talk on Spotify and Apple podcasts.
Speaker 2:This episode is brought to you in part by our friends at Stay 22, the monetization solution built for travel creators and publishers. Stay 22 helps you unlock hidden revenue with tools that let your readers book hotels, activities and more right from your content. No pop-ups, no extra work, just smart, passive income that runs in the background so you can focus on creating. Are you ready to make every click count? Then head to stay22.com slash travel trends and start earning more from your travel content without the ad clutter. That's stay22.com. Slash travel trends and start earning more from your travel content without the ad clutter. That's stay 22.com slash travel trends. And now back to the show.
Speaker 2:Now, as you've heard me mention over the course of this series, I'm an investor and advisor with tour Optima, and Ben and the team have kindly sponsored this series and I just want to make sure that anyone that's in the multi-day tour space explores utilizing Tour Optima for your operations, given that their solution is perfectly fit for multi-day tours. Every time someone asked, can it do this, the answer is yes, as I've seen Ben do on a number of demos. Does it do tipping? Yes. Can it connect trips? Yes, it can. So they have brought on a number of global multi-day tour clients in the last year and, I'm sure, many more. So if you want to learn more information, check out touroptimacom or reach out to Ben directly ben at touroptimacom to arrange a demo.
Speaker 2:Now, as we prepare to bring Ben into the conversation, I just wanted to remind everyone that we do post clips and highlights on all of our social channels, which you can find at Travel Trends Podcast, on LinkedIn, youtube and Instagram, and then we also send out a monthly newsletter which has a roundup of all of our latest episodes and our travel plans for the next month. You can find that at TravelTrendsPodcastcom, and we just sent out the latest newsletter this week and we announced that our AI Summit is returning for October 28th and 29th 2025. So you can pre-register now to get early bird tickets and we will be announcing all of our speakers in the next couple of weeks. It's going to be virtual again, based on the overwhelming feedback from our speakers, partners and guests, so that we can maximize participation and benefit the global travel community. So, wherever you are in the world, you can join us for the AI Summit V2 this October. So register on TravelTrendsPodcastcom or reach out for more information if you want to be a speaker or a sponsor. Both of those links are available on our new landing page as well.
Speaker 2:Now I get a chance to interview a dear friend, an amazing colleague and an industry leader, ben Hall. Thanks so much for joining us, ben. I'm thrilled to finish off this multi-day tour series speaking to you and having all of our listeners learn about ATKings. Welcome to Travel Trends.
Speaker 1:Dan, great to reconnect, Always enjoyed catching up with you and nice to join the podcast today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, likewise, ben. I was thrilled for you to be a part of this series on guided touring and I wanted to make sure not only do we have AT Kings, but yourself specifically, given your extensive background at the travel corporation Traycoin running Contiki. Obviously, I highly respected you then and continue to now, ben, and we would always catch up and I'd look forward to it, and you, as far as I was concerned, were always kind of the heart of the operation over at Contiki for many years and you've taken all that knowledge and expertise and now, leading AAT Kings, you've moved back to Australia, which is originally home for you, and I want to get into all of these things today because you are now the leader of one of these really important guided tour operators that everyone needs to know globally more about. But let's talk about your background first, ben. So tell us a little bit about how you got into tourism and your journey through TTC and Contiki ultimately to land back in Australia and take up the helm as a CEO of AAT Kings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dan, I mean it's a great story, it's a great industry and absolutely you and I have interwoven over the last 12-13 years through business and careers and socially. And look, I fell into the industry a little bit by chance. I mean I was, I was fortunate as a child to to travel the globe. I had parents that were English and Australian, so we were often seeing family and often having the opportunity to go out and experience different locations, and I think that was probably the initial inspiration. But my core inspiration was in about year six where I met a Canadian guy and I was genuinely taken back at how interesting he was and the stories he would tell. So really, my travel story from my perspective starts when I went to Canada. I worked in Whistler for 11 months. I traveled, bought an 84 Dodge Aerie station wagon with wood paneling and traveled around Alaska and North America and had a great time.
Speaker 1:And then arrived in Europe with the intention of working in the city in London and someone said you know, we've got this great industry, why don't you get involved in it and you get paid to travel around Europe? And that led me to Contiki. I had 10 years really on the coaches around Europe, middle East, scandinavia, russia, and that was great with Contiki and also with Trafalgar. And then an opportunity evolved for me to move to Geneva in Switzerland. I had three years there where I got back involved with Contiki and really get involved in the brand and the product and Webb was in its infancy in those days get involved in the brand and the product and web was in its infancy in those days. And then an opportunity took me back to London where I ran you know which, where we connected. I ran Contiki Europe for 10 years, which was fantastic Young people 18 to 35, having holidays of a lifetime and just creating wonderful memories. And then I had an opportunity to move to another travel corporation division called Tracoin, which was a back of house division which did all the contracting for about eight of the brands through Europe and the Middle East. And I ran Tracoin for five years.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, those ultimately turned out to be the COVID years and tough times for everyone, but you know we were constantly working at recontracting, negotiating, creating product and evolving. It was great and an exciting time in that regard, even though it was challenging and then really an opportunity. Dan came to come back home. I've got a young family and the intention was always to bring them home and turn them into Aussies, and so an opportunity came through the group to move back here three years ago to head up AAT Kings, this iconic brand, and really it's been wonderful being back here. It's a spectacular continent, great countries in Australia and New Zealand, incredible sites and just the people I mean. I love the people, the organization and really what they stand for and what we do every day.
Speaker 2:It's such an inspiring story, ben, and the thing that stands out to me is it couldn't happen to a better person the continued progress you've had in your career because, as I highlighted in the beginning there, knowing you during the Contiki years and serving as a managing director, there was always something about the way that you ran that business and clearly you were so well-respected within the Travel Corporation family and certainly Dave Hosking was a mentor to you and clearly we both worked closely with Brett Tolman and the Tolman family. And to see someone like you go from strength to strength in a family business like that and then continue to lead as you do now with AT Kings, so pleased for you and happy for you. And I just wanted to highlight to our audience because when you mentioned Tracoin I realized I'm always I want to make sure that I break down any terminology that may not be familiar, and certainly those people outside of travel corporation or multi-day wouldn't necessarily. There's three words in there, right, ben? What are they?
Speaker 1:Trafalgar, insight and Contiki yes, all mashed together.
Speaker 1:So I mean, look, you're right, it's not a forward-facing brand, it's a back-of-house division.
Speaker 1:And you know, as the organization grew, they consolidated some of the back-of-house divisions and one of them made sense was the contract division, which they branded Tradecoin and critical, obviously, how you buy in this industry, because how you buy determines obviously how you can sell.
Speaker 1:And we had a large team that was responsible for accommodation, transport, meals, experiences and they were brilliant because they were the ones you talk about this industry and I know we're going to talk about guided holidays, you know, and you know, I know you reference sometimes multi-day, but in many regards I call you know what we do these days experiential travel, you know, and really the critical thing for us back then, and driven by, you know, product people, was how do we go and find unique and new things that could help differentiate our product and make all the brands grow because of what they had to offer? And you know, I think that was, you know, that was the exciting part. You know, the contracting was the contracting. It was built on wonderful relationships but, you know, going out and discovering and creating, inventing was really the, you know, the core and the driving part of how we grew these brands.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it's certainly important that you have that background, because understanding the product side and how those multi-day tour brands operate, obviously that's key to success to be able to know how best to market, to message them, how the sales process works, and so clearly, some of the things we've talked about on the guided touring series is what actually makes Guided Touring really unique, and certainly the product is a big part of it. And understanding operations. So you have that in great depth. And so as you transition back to AT Kings and this is where I want to make sure that all of our listeners globally know about AT Kings I think most of our listeners probably know of Contiki and some of them may know about Trafalgar Insight. I think most of our listeners probably know of Contiki and some of them may know about Trafalgar Insight.
Speaker 2:And so AAT Kings always stood out to me as a really fascinating business because you have day tour, you have multi-day, but it also has an amazing history. As we both know, the Tolman family and Stanley Tolman acquired a number of businesses over a number of years. It was really fascinating to see how those were brought into the group and how they were integrated and how they were packaged and sold with other brands inside the group. But let's talk about AAT Kings to give everyone an overview of the history of that brand, because I've certainly seen in the marketing and the messaging Ben over the last couple of years, since you've taken over, how I've loved seeing all the marketing and the messaging, but you do a great job of telling the backstory on this company and how it came to be and why Australia is such an iconic destination all the places you go to. So tell everyone, if you wouldn't mind, the history of AAT Kings and then what the business looks like today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I think you said the word family and I mean, like I think most businesses, they start small and then they grow, and our business is over 100 years old. It started with the Pike family. In fact it started with a couple of different families the Page family down in Melbourne, the Pike family here in Sydney, all which did original sort of transportation. So the Pike family did journeys over to the Blue Mountains and beyond the Genolian Caves, which were probably a day trip out of Sydney back then and still core tourist destinations out of the city. And then the Page family McGarry family down in Melbourne as well, started off with coach transport and paying people from point A to point B and they've gradually evolved those sort of day-touring products to become overnight products. And then the business has gradually grown and expanded and bought out other businesses.
Speaker 1:And really the name A to Kings you know the prime name Kings comes from a guy called Bill King and Bill King was a pioneer early of Australian tourism. If you think back in the 70s and the early 80s, bill King was really the one that pushed the boundaries and took it from, let's call it, core city sort of near city focus to taking it to the outback and Bill was, you know, remarkable at, you know, following the footpaths of some of the explorers that travelled this country so famous names like Birkenwills and Human Hovel and the Stuarts, where they essentially went out and traversed Australia and figured out ways in which, that you know, we could drive communication and transportation and the telegraph poles through the middle of Australia to drive communication from the cities of Australia to the rest of the world. And so he was an adventurer and he was an explorer, but he really loved sharing the tale with his guests, with his guests, and so he created a fleet that grew and became known, you know, as the true Australian explorer and unique traveller. So his business tied in with, ultimately, one of the airlines at the time that reversed out its name. So AAT Kings was created and that business continues to evolve. Yes, it's had the Tolman ownership for a period of time and now it's sort of moved on to you. Yes, it's had the Tolman ownership for a period of time and now it's sort of moved on to Apollo. But it's a wonderful business. It's got a great history, it's got a fantastic reputation. It is renowned for travel in Australia and New Zealand, as you said, dan, in some regards, our mission statement is around being the leading and largest to operate across Australia and New Zealand and really the purpose of what we do is to deliver immersive experiences through our diverse group of brands.
Speaker 1:And I say diverse group of brands because AAT Kings in its own right is a group of brands.
Speaker 1:We've got Seat, which is a small group tour operator based in the Red Centre.
Speaker 1:We've got Down Under Tours, which is a business up out of Cairns that does far north Queensland and once again services day tours and transfers and charter and works with the reef operators.
Speaker 1:And then we've got Inspiring Journeys, which is our small group offering, and then IAT Kings, which is the traditional offering, and we offer Dan the guided holidays, the multi-day that you've talked about, and those range from sort of six days through to 21 days, so covering huge parts of Australia and New Zealand. But we also have the day tours and the short breaks, which are generally two and three nights days. So it works very much with the individual people that are coming here and want to join a tour in a location for a short period of time as part of their wider journey around Oceania. And then the other thing we do is charter. We've got charter and in many regards we're a DMC model for a number of well-known brands that we do the ground handling for their groups in Australia as well. So it's a huge mix and variety across the business, but without doubt our core business is the guided holidays taking people across Australia and New Zealand and showing them the wonderful destinations and the great experience that we have to offer.
Speaker 2:That's great, brent. I appreciate you sharing that backstory. Name Australian Adventure Tours with kings like AT Kings that, going back even to the 70s, you guys were already ahead of the curve with the term adventure. So what do we call this category? Group travel, or multi-day touring, or experiential travel? One of the things you guys were actually ahead of is this concept of adventure. It was actually built into the name really from the beginning.
Speaker 2:But, as you highlighted, ben, and I want to make sure that any of you that are multitasking at the moment I know a lot of people listen to this podcast as they're driving. So if you're driving, don't pull up the website, but if you have your laptop or computer handy, aatkingscom and you can see the section of the AT King's difference, which is something that Ben and I learned very well from working with the Tolmans about selling the difference. It was always something that Stanley or Brett really highlighted to us. So you can actually go to the section on the website and look up the AT King's difference and you can see the history that Ben kindly shared there, tracing the roots back 100 years, but the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, and the thing is that's the reason I wanted to reference. That is, that at the core of your business it is guided touring and that's what's always driven the business, that's how it was created and that's what. But, as you just started to highlight there at the end, all the things that you're across whether it's inspiring journeys or down under tours, and see it Like you've got Cairns, you've got Ayers Rock and you've got all of these day tour opportunities as well as multi-day and you do all the operations.
Speaker 2:So there's so much complexity to your role and it's one of the things I just wanted to highlight to our audience, because someone running a business like AT Kings that had been highlighted to me for many years is that the leader of AT Kings has to fully understand all aspects of the business. They need to know operations, they need to know marketing, they need to know sales. Some CEOs of certain brands are really a sales leader or a marketing leader and in your instance, which is your backstory, that you know operations and now marketing sales, like you know you are, you know, the full, well-rounded CEO. I just wanted everyone to have that, that context.
Speaker 2:So, at Kings today, ben, under your leadership over the last three years, tell us a little bit of how it's evolved and expanded Cause obviously you've got quite a bit under your remit so, but I'm I'm sure you're always being challenged on growing the business. So, in terms of where the customers are coming from and international markets you're expanding to, the one that is obviously of quite interest is is the U? S. So tell us a little bit about where people can book AT King's trips. For all of our travel advisors and industry leaders that are listening to this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, look, critical is the trade for us. For sure, there's no doubt we're available online. We've got a pretty comprehensive website. We certainly are bookable via a myriad of different channels because we have worked with the trade. But we've also worked with wholesalers and also, you know, specialists, australian specialists or ITOs, and New Zealand specialists. So we generally work with a mix of people over time.
Speaker 1:And that's the case in North America as well, dan, and retail. We're probably not as well known in retail, I think you know. Certainly the business evolved over time where we had a strong retail presence, as you know, we were sort of linked or are linked to Trafalgar. So Trafalgar has the retail presence in North America particularly and more presence there, and they sell essentially Trafalgar product into Australia and New Zealand which, as I alluded to earlier, we kind of operate so the DMC for them. So most of the trade may not have heard directly of AAT Kings or might not sell AAT Kings directly, but they do indirectly through Trafalgar and like for like in many regards and we certainly treasure the Trafalgar guests that travel with us and treat them as if they are on a Trafalgar tour with all the Trafalgar unique points that are critical to that experience. But AAT Kings has also got its own product. You know we've got a larger footprint across Australia and New Zealand than Trafalgar does, just because they specialize on, you know, fly-arounds and more sort of key, well-known destinations, whereas AAT Kings has got broader itineraries that allow us to go more off the beaten track or to unique destinations.
Speaker 1:So, you know, I think when you talk about evolution over time, dan, I think what we've done really is we started to branch out to some of the destinations that aren't as well known. But certainly, you know, in the last five years, as we all know, everyone's discovered their own backyard and I think that has really benefited Australia, as it has probably every country around the world, because the domestic audience had to go and travel and they then, on the back of that, decided to go to places that they might not have gone to or might not have thought about before, and that has really opened up huge opportunities for local businesses, indigenous businesses in this country, and created some real opportunities and some unique experiences that we've been able to tap into and we've been able to support them to help them create their businesses. So, when I look at the product, really we are bookable via a myriad of channels, but really this business has evolved coming over the last five years as to unique experiences, really immersive experiences, and really opening up parts of the countries that we haven't traditionally or haven't gone to for many years, and guests have loved those experiences. I mean, dan, as you know, you're all travelled.
Speaker 1:Often when you go to a destination, you've got in mind that the key sites and you think I'm really looking forward to those, but in actual fact, it's the things you didn't know about that actually turn out to be the greatest surprises, because you weren't thinking about going to a family farm and learning about how they produce their unique apple juice or how they create these wonderful cuisine meals farm to table or paddock to plates. I mean, those are the things really that I think are quite unique in the evolution of our industry and those unique experience, immersive experience. That is really where we're going to really accentuate the opportunities and the experience people have. Yes, you're going to see the key sites, but really it's those other things we do now that really allow people to personalize their trips and have a wonderful experience they weren't necessarily expecting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's where just understanding guided travel and how it differs from independent travel is really important, because clearly, you and I both have this shared background in not only a knowledge of guided travel, but also a genuine passion and an interest for that style of travel. And I think what's interesting about AAT Kings compared to some of the other operators and I'll just use, since I mentioned, adventure travel when you look at certain operators, like a G Adventures or an Intrepid, for example, they typically had a source market and a destination market that they started to build a business off of. So for G Adventures, it was Latin America, specifically Peru. For Intrepid it was Thailand, and really many of these operators didn't necessarily operate in their own backyard to your point about how that really changed during COVID.
Speaker 2:And there are exceptions to that, especially when you look at American travelers today more of them, especially with some of the challenges in 2025 and concerns that Americans have of traveling internationally, just given some of the, you know, political events that are occurring, and so Americans are turning again to looking at national parks as an alternative to, you know, to see their own backyard again.
Speaker 2:And so, as we know, we always go from crisis to crisis in travel. You've lived through many of them and you know we're having another moment again, but travel is, there's a through line, people continue to travel, and so the question I'm keen to ask you is when you look at the history of AT King's and its present-day business, how much of the customer base is domestic Australians versus international travelers, when it comes to the Australian trips themselves? And then the other thing I'm just keen to know as far as new destinations that you're expanding to or looking to serve, based on consumer interest. But yeah, if you might break that down, because I think what's unique is you've been catering to Australia, to Australians as part of the origin story, but obviously a lot of international travelers as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and Dan, we are. I mean, if you look at our history, traditionally probably 50% of our audience is domestic and 50% it's international, and you know most of those are obviously English speaking tours. But we do also work with you know Germany and France and companies there and create language speaking tours as well, but you know predominantly English speaking tours and those tours have evolved as I said. I mean I think you know the east coast of Australia, you know the Barrier Reef and the. You know the Sydney Harbour Bridge and the Opera House are the iconic sites that traditionally people see and then they go to the middle of the country to see Uluru. But I think really on the back of COVID, and really I think also a lot of good work that's being done by many of the state tourist officers and the regional tourist officers to promote their regions has allowed, as I said, local businesses to grow and therefore work with us to evolve and create unique experiences.
Speaker 1:So I look at Tasmania just as a spectacular island in the southern part of the country which offers everything. I mean it's not a large space but it's got an incredible history, it's got incredible produce, it's got wonderful people and it's got brilliant experiences that, you know, from outdoor hiking through to some incredible cultural and immersive experience down there. So I think Tasmania is a wonderful destination. I think South Australia has done well. I often refer that South Australia was the state that people generally drove through, but COVID allowed people to stop there and spend time there and they've got so much to offer there with their air peninsula and their kangaroo island. And it's not fair that I pick out particular states or regions, because I think new zealand has got so much to offer and western australia, northern territory, I mean honestly, it is such a brilliant continent and there's so much to offer. And I think what we're seeing here is, you know, businesses and individuals are being created on a almost daily basis and each of them with a unique, you know, unique proposition which you know is a focus across.
Speaker 1:You know it could be adventure of some, you know, and adventure, we know, is such a wide definition between soft adventure and physical adventure. But you know a lot of people are after adventure, softer adventure. So some walks and some hiking and guided tours. You know you can see food is massive these days and you know Australia's got some of the best produce. New Zealand's got some of the best produce, both from the land and the sea, that's on offer. We've got incredible wines, we've got incredible coffees and we've got amazing culture.
Speaker 1:I mean, one of the things that people don't realise is that you know the Maori culture in New Zealand and the Aboriginal First Nations culture here in Australia. I mean, the First Nation culture, aboriginal culture, is 60,000 years old, dan, it's the oldest living culture in the world. And, geez, they've got an incredible story to share on how they've lived and survived and thrived on the land, being nomadic and moving around over those 60,000 years. And I think really that is something that has also evolved in the last, particularly five to 10 years that people are genuinely interested on. You know their culture, how they live, you know how they can live off the land and you and I would look at a landscape.
Speaker 1:I often tell people that you know you go to Outback Australia or you go anywhere around this country now, because there are over 300 different Indigenous clans and you look at the landscape and you sit there with an Indigenous person and you look at the landscape and you say, well, I could see there's a few trees here and shrubs and bushes, but I can't imagine how I would survive.
Speaker 1:And then over the course of the next hour and a half, they walk you through and they pick these little bushes and they say, here this is medicinal and here you can eat this one, and that over there is what you don't touch that one.
Speaker 1:But this here provides us with our art colors to be able to do our dot paintings and you know, just, they bring it to life and it's just incredible how they you know, their knowledge and the skill they have of living off the land is, you know, so far ahead of where we are, even as a you know, when I look at farming today, I mean they have known how to live off the land and move around the land given season, and I think that's becoming a great story, as it is in Canada, with the Indigenous people and around the world, and I think, genuinely there's this great story that's coming out around the globe of, yes, we want to see the sites and yes, we want to meet the people and yes, we want to enjoy the cultural experience around food and land.
Speaker 1:But the people and you know, dan, our industry is about people you know it's about, you know, making sure that we've got good people we work with and keep them motivated. But it's about also making sure that we're showing our guests phenomenal experiences, and I think some of those experiences involve really around the locals and the knowledge they share and being able to open those up to people to treasure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I think you're hitting on one of the most important points, ben, certainly around guided travel, which is that cultural immersion that you wouldn't get from an independent travel experience, by virtue of being able to working with a partner that has cultivated those opportunities and those relationships and done so in a responsible, sustainable way and that is respectful of local communities and gets you know, getting money into the right hands of, in many ways have kind of led the way. I mean, obviously, canada, australia and the US have challenges with their going through history of First Nations, but I think the idea now for all of us to try and move forward is exactly what you've just described and I'm certainly seeing that Destination. Canada highlighted to me that one of the main reasons that Germans come to Canada to see the Northern Lights is because they can actually have a cultural experience and understand First Nations. There's multiple countries and I say this specifically, ben, because I still remember when you were launching Iceland itineraries for Contiki and I hadn't been to Iceland yet and I was asking Ben all these questions about Iceland, he was showing pictures of the Northern Lights and I was so intrigued. I've since been to Iceland a few times. I've seen the Northern Lights there. I've seen them in Canada. I would still choose Canada, I think, but anyway, the point being is that, as a tourism destination, the Canadians are tying themselves much more closely to the First Nations, as they absolutely should for all the right reasons. So I'm glad that you mentioned that. I mean, even when we were in Australia my family, when we were in Sydney for several weeks for work, and my wife and kids were there. They did a number of AT King's day trips and it was actually the opportunity they had to understand the culture. That was the most meaningful and what stayed with them. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2:Hey, travel advisors, are you ready to offer your clients truly amazing global travel experiences that they will never forget? Well then, you have to meet our friends at Colette, the most trusted name in guided travel since 1918. With tours across all seven continents and five distinct travel styles, from small groups to small ship cruising, colette really has a tour for every kind of traveler. Colette's in-destination designers are passionate travelers and regional experts. They curate experiences that go beyond the surface. Think dining in a local's home, connecting with local communities and truly immersing yourself in the destination's culture. That is what Colette is all about. No cookie cutter itineraries here, no endless hotel hopping. You'll spend an average of two to three nights in a centrally located accommodation. It is the way to travel in 2025 and beyond.
Speaker 2:So it is time to make sure your clients have the opportunity to experience Colette. Don't just book a trip. Dive deeper into the destination. Create memories with Colette Travel, crafted by travelers for travelers. For more information and to discover how Colette can delight your clients, check out colettecom. That's Colette C-O-L-L-E-T-T-Ecom.
Speaker 2:Hey, travelers, are you looking to book your next adventure? Then you have to meet our good friends at Flight Center, the travel-obsessed experts ready to make your next dream trip a reality. For over 40 years, they've been opening up the world to travellers from the UK, australia, new Zealand and now Flight Centre Canada is celebrating an incredible milestone 30 years of helping Canadians explore the globe. From their first store in Vancouver in 1995 to becoming the official travel agency partner of the Toronto Raptors this year, they've been at the forefront of delivering travel experiences At Flight Centre. Travel is more than a passion. It's their expertise. From flights and accommodations to cruises and tours and even business travel, they handle it all, whether it's crafting a tailor-made trip or tackling group bookings. They've got you covered, plus with exclusive perks like their new bundle, and save $500 on tour and cruise packages. There's never been a better time to plan your getaway From the smallest getaways to the biggest bucket list trips, your travel goals are just a call or a click away. Visit flightcenterca slash travel trends to explore the latest deals, learn about emerging travel trends and start planning your next trip.
Speaker 2:Attention travel operators, destination management companies and accommodation providers, managing payments doesn't have to be a source of stress. Meet Flywire, the modern payments platform built specifically for the unique needs of the travel industry. With Flywire, you can collect payments from travelers worldwide with ease, enjoy faster payouts in your preferred currency, reduce payment fees and offer your guests flexible, localized payment options they're familiar with. Not only does Flywire simplify your operations, but it also helps elevate your guest experience and boost your bottom line. That means you can stop worrying about payments and focus on what you do best creating unforgettable travel experiences. Discover how Flywire can help your business save time, save money and deliver truly seamless transactions. Visit flywirecom slash travel trends to learn more. That's flywirecom slash travel trends.
Speaker 2:And now back to the show, to just highlight the point about guided travel versus independent travel, given that is the history of the business. What are some of the things that you specifically point out to and I'm asking this question directly for all of our listeners that either have guests that might be thinking to go to Australia, new Zealand, and might be considering renting a car and driving around when you think about the guided travel alternative or, as we would typically like, the preferred way to travel? What are some of the things that you would otherwise advise travel agents to consider, or even travelers who are listening to this that might think wait a second, maybe I should book a Australia trip and be able to book a guided tour? What are some of the reasons that you specifically would call out would be the big advantages and benefits of guided over independent travel?
Speaker 1:I think the first thing I need to say, dan, is that this is a huge country. I mean, australia is the size of the United States of America, the size of Europe. So distances a lot of people are surprised when they come here and they think it's a 45-minute drive from Melbourne to Sydney when in actual fact it's 1000 kilometers. So you know, I think you know people that look to self-drive often get surprised at the distances and therefore how much their time disappears because they're dealing with driving and organization. So I think you know, when I look at our, when I look at what guided holidays have to offer, you know, and I often consider that, you know, as humans, unfortunately, we're time poor and that's never going to change, and I think guided holidays really are a real benefit around helping people maximize their time, helping them make sure that they get to experience as much of what they can in a destination. So when you know, when you look at it, you know guided holidays pretty much take care of all the details of a trip. You know we've got experts that are on trip. So you know the drivers, the travel directors that are locals, that know the places to go, can cater to everyone's curiosities. So you know, the beauty of guided holidays is a lot's included, you know accommodation, a lot of meals, certainly transportation, a number of inclusions.
Speaker 1:And you know, I think, that the itineraries have evolved. I think you know gone are the days where they were, you know, rigid and tight and set. You know the itineraries certainly are set, but they're now structured around, of course, trying to cater to each individual's needs. And I think that the misconception sometimes of guided holidays is that you're set and you can't necessarily get off the path. But the structure these days is designed, that it is evolved to make sure that it's offering unique experiences that you can't find. It's making sure that we've got skilled people that are people-orientated and can relate to people and therefore share great information around local stories, personal insights, the history, as well as the sites and the sounds of the destination.
Speaker 1:But they're bringing that to light. But they're bringing that to light, but they're also taking people to places that they wouldn't necessarily find if they were travelling on their own or looking in a guidebook. And I think it just simplifies things for people, it makes it easier, it makes sure they maximise their time. The beauty of guided holidays in this day and age and you touched on it before that the geopolitical world that we live in and unrest is that budgets are tight and cost of living is looking at it.
Speaker 1:The nice thing about a guided tour it's a set price. It includes a lot and then really in the free time, if people want to go off and do their own thing, they can, and they can spend more, whether it's shopping or cultural experiences or just sitting down enjoying the cuisine and the wonderful offerings there. But it helps people structure their budget to manage what they spend and ensure at the same time that they get to do everything they want to do and experience it, because they've got someone that can cater to each and every individual on the coach to make sure they get the most out of their holiday.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's great. This is the conversation I would have liked to have had with you 20 years ago before we set off on a self-drive around Australia with my in-laws in the back of the car, in a Holden Commodore. This was my lonely planet days when I was living in Melbourne, which is, of course, home for you, ben. So we probably actually could have had a beer or a pint. You could have set me straight then. But we were kind of priding ourselves on being independent travelers and I've long since realized that a Lonely Planet traveler really is a guided traveler, just traveling out of a guidebook and meeting everyone else that's traveling on the same itinerary and staying at the same hotels, and so there is actually. You feel like you're fiercely independent, but the reality is you're still on a guided tour, even though it may feel more self-directed. But we ended up doing this. It was an incredible road trip, but we drove from Melbourne Great Ocean Road all the way to Adelaide and flew to Ayers Rock and then flew to Cairns and kept getting a hold in everywhere we rented, and my father-in-law had said to me at the end of the trip I never would have had this experience if you weren't driving us around because I was the driver, my wife was the guide and we did have a fantastic time, but I could say that the four of us on a coach would have probably had an even better time because we would have all been enjoying it equally together, without the driving, the hassles and the aggravation. So for many reasons I'm, you know, a huge advocate of guided travel.
Speaker 2:But let's talk a little bit more about the guides themselves, because one of the things that it always comes up as kind of one of the top three considerations People are always concerned about the group. Who are they going to be traveling with? And they always want to know. And the reality is, as we've both discovered, especially when it's someone who's new to guided travel, the reality is you're going to be surrounded by everyone that feels the exact same way as you, but they're open-minded. They wouldn't be on this trip if they. You know, if you end up traveling with like-minded people, so you quickly realize that you get along with everybody else because they're all there for the same, you know, looking for enjoyment, looking for an escape from the day-to-day and and.
Speaker 2:But the guide is the key, as you and I both know. That can really and because I ask you this question, ben, because your background you were a guide. You had that experience of knowing what it's like to lead guests and every time my family members who have since become avid guided touring. My in-laws took a lot of Insight trips. My mom took a lot of Trafalgar trips, as you know and Gavin knows, and they love that style of travel. But the one thing that always came up is how was the guide? And they always come back and say the guide was amazing. It was just like, and they're like, and so they talk about the group, they talk about the guide. So how do you at AAT Kings make sure that that is the experience that everyone has? So take us a little bit through that, because I think it's actually genuinely interesting for most people to know what's involved in becoming a guide with a company like AET Kings and becoming a great storyteller and making sure every guest that goes on one of these trips comes back raving about it.
Speaker 1:Well, let me just say, Dan, that we've all traveled with our in-laws once and it's always been an experience. I can only imagine what experience you had years ago. But I talked about people before and you've referenced guide and you've referenced people on coach and I think that's important. When you're talking about guided holidays, I mean, there's no doubt that the you know, the travel director, the guide, the person leading the local expert is, without doubt, the most important person in ensuring the group gels and the group gets to do and experience what they want on trip. And I think you know making sure you've got the right people leading trips is, in many regards, sometimes the most important factor of an organization. So, you know, we make sure that we go out and find the right people. We make sure that they are trained and not just, you know, trained on you know how to communicate, but trained on genuinely looking after people. Okay, so you know what we want is people that are people orientated, that you know have got a mixed skill set that can really cater to everyone, because there are everyone's a unique individual on a trip. It doesn't matter if it's a small group or a larger group. You know everyone's an individual and they are on that trip for their you know after particular interests of their, you know why they're coming and why they're planned, so that you know that guide needs to be able to obviously be able to communicate to the wider group but also very be personalized to an individual. And I think what we look for really is people that are coming from the particular regions that you know they will specialize on and therefore they'll conduct those particular regions that you know they will specialise on and therefore they'll conduct those particular trips that we offer in Australia and in New Zealand. And they will have, you know, they might not have a tourist background, they might have been a teacher or they might have been a gardener or they might have worked in a bank, but what they've got is the ability to be able to understand people and engage with people. And I think you know that that is the most important thing here is that you know with time they'll they'll, they'll learn more. With time they'll engage people and better understand people's needs and wants. But really it's being able to engage with people and understand what they want and draw that out of them and for people to feel comfortable so that they can come to them, not just for information around things they want to see, but also if there's problems. I think that's.
Speaker 1:The nice thing here is really these people are leading the trips to make sure that they overcome challenges, and we all know that, unfortunately, there are challenges that pop up, from minor through to major, as you live and as you travel, and our guides there are to ensure that people can overcome those challenges as quickly and smoothly as possible and get on with enjoying the trip. So you know, I think you know, our guides are unique in that they are absolutely locals. They have got incredible stories. I mean, we've got a guide in Tasmania who's a good example, who is a fifth-generation Australian and her great-great-great-great-grandmother actually came across as a seven-year-old in very harsh conditions.
Speaker 1:You know 150 years, 160 years ago, conditions.
Speaker 1:You know 150 years, 160 years ago and the stories she can tell about the family and the evolution and the hardships and how they've grown and the challenge just adds to the experience but also gives you a sense as to how much knowledge they have of you know the destination and how many people they know and how many doors they can open.
Speaker 1:So you know, I think you know, they're critical.
Speaker 1:You know they do a brilliant job, but it's also how they massage over the challenges and ensure that people can continue and focus on having fun is critical and I think how they bring a group together, dan.
Speaker 1:So tying that back to the people on the coach, you know a lot of people have, you know, sometimes a misconception and go on holidays, but you've alluded to it. I mean you know they're like-minded people and you know, having worked in the industry for 30 years, you know you create lifelong friends from trips. You know I've got people, as I'm sure you do, and people listening that you've met on a trip that you've connected with and you've become friends. And you might not necessarily see them or speak to them too often, but when you catch up and whether you plan your next guided holiday together in a different destination or you just catch up socially somewhere, the memories and the joy that comes on the back of that really to me reiterates the people and the fun and the friendly and experiential aspects that it all gets pulled together for people to enjoy and treasure for forever and a day.
Speaker 2:Yeah no, that's very well said, ben, and clearly that's where I wanted to get your take on this, because you understand it so well, and the one other thing I wanted to ask you on this topic. And then I'm keen to talk a little bit more about some of the trips that you're offering now, because obviously the business continues to evolve and you adapt to consumer behavior. But the one thing, just as we, I guess, close out the discussion about the category itself is the misperceptions that some people have. So I'd be keen to know from your experience your extensive experience what would be one of the biggest misconceptions about guided tours and how have you learned to address that at AT Kings now?
Speaker 1:Yeah, look, I think that misconception still remains and often it remains with people that have never done a guided holiday. Often people are critical until they get to experience and then they open their mind to it. And probably same with cruise and other parts of our wonderful industry. But from a guided industry perspective, I think the misconception is that people think that they're rigid, they're one size fits all and they're pretty set. But I think it doesn't matter whether it's A to Kings or if it's Trafalgar or if it's many of the other different brands that offer guided holidays around the world.
Speaker 1:You will see that they've evolved. They allow for greater flexibility now, they absolutely cater for greater immersion and, as I've alluded to, they really are about personalized experiences. So you know it allows people to you know, seek deeper cultural connections, authentic local encounters. You know it also covers off on sustainable travel choices, which people are after these days. So really, what we're looking for and what we're trying to create these days and I think we've done a remarkable job as an industry and as a business is those authentic experiences, those cultural immersive opportunities and a real sense of purpose, so that it is different from maybe what people have. Visions of years ago, have visions of years ago. It is allowing people to discover experience, learn, and do it on a personalized nature rather than just one size fits all, and I think that will continue to evolve, as I call it experiential travel, as we bring on more unique experiences and more opportunities for people to personalize their trips.
Speaker 2:We'll be right back. Are you looking for ways to grow your travel business through paid media and optimized SEO? Then you have to check out our friends at Propeleccom. They are the leading digital agency for growth in travel and tourism. Propelec offers bold digital marketing strategies to ensure your travel company's success. They have a remarkable methodology that has actually been implemented by TravelAIcom, and they are a leading SEO agency globally and offer a range of resources a podcast of their own, a blog on their website, propelliccom that's P-R-O-P-E-L-L-I-Ccom. And don't forget to mention Travel Trends for your free marketing audit.
Speaker 2:Our longtime listeners will be very familiar with TravelAIcom, one of our sponsors, from the very beginning. They've sponsored the last two seasons and also our AI Summit. You might actually remember they were recently featured in Season 4,. The two co-founders, john Liotier and Chris Jensen, live from Focusrite, where they shared how their innovative use of AI is reshaping the travel industry. If you missed it, we highly recommend going back to hear their inspiring story of building one of the fastest growing, profitable AI companies in travel. Entirely bootstrapped Travel AI is revolutionizing the industry by blending AI powered efficiency with personalized, human centered travel experiences, from micro segmentation to tailored travel solutions. Their mission is to enhance every traveler's journey while setting the pace for travel's future. Here's how you can join the exciting mission. If you or someone you know in tech or AI is looking for a new career that combines innovation and impact, then head to TravelAIcom or follow them on LinkedIn to explore more opportunities. They are growing fast. Thanks again for your continued support in to explore more opportunities. They are growing fast. Thanks again for your continued support.
Speaker 2:Did you know that over 20% of people who purchase a ticket will upgrade to a refundable option when given the choice? By offering Refund Protect, you make it easy for your customers to protect their ticket purchase against emergency circumstances like illness, injury, accidents and more. Whether you're an airline group, tour operator, ticketing platform, ota or transport solution, when you partner with protect group, your customers get peace of mind and you generate extra revenue. With a trust pilot score of 4.8 stars and over 31 000 reviews, they treat your customers as their own, earning the highest customer ratings in the industry. To find out more, check out Protect Group at protectgroup. That's protectgroup.
Speaker 2:And now back to the show. Let's talk about two experiential travel options, because this is where, now that we've kind of dispelled some of the myths and also extolled some of the virtues of guided travel to bring it to life. I'd like to look at one Australian itinerary and maybe let's to look at one Australian itinerary and maybe let's look at one New Zealand itinerary. And clearly you mentioned something that is super important for anyone that hasn't traveled to Australia and New Zealand. I remember how exotic both destinations felt before we traveled there and before we had a chance to live in Australia and really fall in love with Australia. I mean, I still have left my heart in Australia.
Speaker 2:It was a difficult decision to move back to Canada. Don't get me wrong. I love Canada. I've been fortunate to live in a number of countries, but Australia is particularly special and I'd love to spend half the year still in Australia. So that came from traveling there, living there and then the multiple times I've been back since. But when? Looking at Australia for the first time and trying to wrap my head around it. Clearly it's not possible to do everything on your first trip unless you have a gap year and you've got 12 months to spare. But if you're going to Australia for two weeks or even four weeks, it's so difficult. So I'd love if you wouldn't mind, like picking out an Australia itinerary. That would be one of the better options for someone to see the country for the first time, and then maybe let's do the same with New Zealand as well, since that is such an amazing country in and of itself.
Speaker 2:And the only thing I'll just highlight and then I'll give you the floor on this one, ben is that one of the things that shocked me when I was living in Australia is that only 4% of travelers to Australia get to Tasmania, and I was determined to get to Tasmania when we were living there.
Speaker 2:Every weekend we had, we were off to Perth, we took every opportunity to travel within the country and we spent a Christmas in Tasmania and it was incredible. It was truly an extraordinary destination, and when I was interviewing Sarah Clark, who obviously is a colleague she's the CEO of Tourism Tasmania and I was asking her that question like, has that changed the 4%? And interestingly, not Like it's literally less than 5% of travelers to Australia will get to Tasmania and interestingly, not like it's literally less than 5% of travelers to Australia will get to Tasmania. So that's just to highlight your point about how vast the country is, how many amazing places there are to see. It's really difficult to do it all. So ultimately, you need to do a few trips to Australia. But yeah, ben, take us through one great example of an itinerary, just to give us a bit of an overview of what the experience would be.
Speaker 1:First-time traveler to Australia with AT Kings review of what the experience would be. First time traveler to Australia with AT Kings Dan, I always find this question challenging because it's almost like saying who's your favorite child and you never can win. And we've got a large footprint across New Zealand and Australia and to pick one destination feels I'm not doing justice really to all of it. But let me just you know, last year I took my family on the Outback Adventure Trip, which is a trip that runs from Adelaide through the central part of Australia up to Darwin, and so you know it's probably worth me talking about that one because that was just a wonderful experience there. You know a great group of people and my two young kids on the trip as well, which you know worked out to be a good highlight for a lot of the people as well. But you know we started in Adelaide and we went to the local market there and we had a guided tour and got to sample the produce and learn how the locals you know cater and evolve and create, you know, from the food found around and the landscape around South Australia. We then made our way up into the Flinders Ranges, once again there, akarula. So you know you talk about night sky. You know this is one of these wonderful destinations you go to see, you know, star glazing and see spectacular stars. We then travelled up to Coober Pedy, which is, you know, famous for its underground hotels and opal mines. We then made our way through the landscape to Central Australia and it's, you know, a lot of people say outback, and it's scenic. You know, scenery is quite similar, but I found that every probably 10 minutes the scenery changed and I was taking photos which I've captured now in a process of photos that just show us how the landscape changes on a continual basis. We then got out to Uluru and the wonderful experience there of the barbecue under the night sky there, the indigenous, on-country experiences.
Speaker 1:Where you get to, you know a local guide that explains the culture. Where you get to, you know a local guide that explains the culture. Then you know through Alice Springs and up into Darwin, which is a contrast because you've travelled. You know you've essentially travelled. You know close to 1,500 miles and you've gone from, you know, a city, through the, you know the wilderness of the outback, through these wonderful little towns and meeting these little townships and people that are there, through to, of course the top end, which you know Darwin at that time of year is the rainy season, so it's lush and green and there's, you know, different wildlife around and you know you get to see kangaroos and koalas and up north you even get to see crocodiles. So you know it's a real mix of people and you know ties in really to our wonderful pillars around sustainability of people and planet and wildlife and you get to see it on every trip. And that was just a great example through Australia of what we experience and our guests experience as well.
Speaker 1:I think from New Zealand, the South Island spectacular If I talk about the whole of New Zealand, the New Zealand Uncovered itinerary is great. I mean we talked about Maori culture in Rotorua. You talk about the Bay of Plenty and these wonderful beaches and the marine life that they've got to experience there. And then you go to the South Island and you get to experience the mountains, the volcanic landscape. You get to see the people. You get to see the people and you get to go on, you know, into farms and learn about the cattle industry in New Zealand and how they you know how they've evolved over time and how they produce the wonderful foods and get to sample those. And I think you know New Zealand, without doubt, has got stunning, breathtaking scenery, you know, particularly in that South Island, but also unique volcanic in the northern part. So I think you know both and you're right, dan. I mean New Zealand is a unique volcanic in the northern part. So I think both and you're right, dan.
Speaker 1:I mean New Zealand is a unique country in its own right and has got so much to offer that one trip doesn't do it justice and the repeat business is incredible.
Speaker 1:They're similar in Australia, given the size of the country, and you've got coasts, you've got mountains, you've got outback.
Speaker 1:I mean to give you an idea of the size of the country, we've got cattle stations in Australia that are larger than some of the American or Canadian states and provinces or even countries in the world. How they get produce, how they engage, how they, how the kids get taught, you know which, through the school of the air, which you know is in Alice Springs, and they communicate across thousands of kilometers or miles so that people can, you know these kids can have an education. How the flying doctor service works that flies out so they get medical. I mean it's, there's just great stories and experiences to be had, you know, across all these countries, as it is the globe okay in the industry, um, but you know I'm pretty passionate about australia, new zealand and what we've got to offer and encourage people to come down here because it's brilliant well, one of the things that new zealand was certainly ahead of the curve on was sustainability, and I know that's always been a an important part of at kings.
Speaker 2:Even when I started at the travel corporation many years ago, some some of the projects that you had on with it used to be the case that certain brands had a project they got involved in and obviously that evolved to Treadwright and Make Travel Matter. So tell everyone a little bit about the sustainability aspect of AT Kings, because I'm encouraged that more and more travelers today are prioritizing sustainability and being conscientious of the companies they choose to book with, based on the carbon footprint or the impact they're going to have. So tell us a little bit about how AT King works in this regard, because I know you've got a number of different projects around people, planet, wildlife.
Speaker 1:Yeah, look, sustainability has been prominent for us for years, which is, in many, I'd like to think, the organisation sort of led the way in that area. But you know, everything we do really is built around sustainability these days, you know. So how we operate, how we engage, where we take people really ties into those pillars you've talked about Dan, and we have what we call Make Travel Matter experiences, where we engage with local people. So, whether it's a local guide to take you through the botanical gardens to tell you about the various plants that are unique to each of the countries we visit, if it's a, as I've already talked about, going onto a farm, going onto a personal property to understand how people have created their businesses and how they've, you know, utilised the land and sustainable methods to make sure that is, you know, preserved and ongoing for the future. We've talked about you talked about Kiwi hatchery. We could talk about, obviously, the Tassie Devils in Tasmania. They're animals that are unique to the countries that we go to, that we're trying to educate, take people to support, but also to learn about and also to understand, and then the planet in its own right, I mean, I think it's such a vast country in Australia and New Zealand so spectacularly talked about. It's about how do we help, preserve and educate people.
Speaker 1:So how do we do our part on? As an example, our latest offering here is working with a company up in the Daintree called Rainforest Rescue, and they're an organisation that has gradually accumulated money to purchase back land that has been unfortunately taken from the rainforest and cultivated, and what they're doing is returning it to rainforest. So they've got, you know, they've got a shed, a large football field, a shed with, you know, hundreds of different plants, and they've purchased the land and they're reforesting the lands to rebuild the rainforest and grow, you know, evolve the Daintree back to where it was the oldest rainforest in the world. So, you know, supporting those activities and being able to take our guests to those experiences really adds value. They understand what we're doing as an organization, how we're helping and how we're growing, you know, and and how that sustainable thing is real.
Speaker 2:Rather than being a greenwashing, it's real in everything we do and and what we want to achieve no, I appreciate giving that context because I, again, like I know how important it has been to you and to the team and the business and I'm just now seeing, just again really encouraging because we did this analysis with contiki in the usa pre-pandemic and out of the top 10 reasons it was always like eight, nine or 10. It was just great to see that it was there, but it was not a key reason for decision-making and we're certainly seeing more and more that that is. So I definitely encourage those of you who are looking at the credentials of these companies to look at AT Kings as a great leader and example in that regard. And the other thing I wanted to highlight too is just in terms of how these multi-day tour trips are evolving as we have this conversation kind of going into the middle of 2025. And, as most of our listeners know, I'm quite bullish on guided touring based on the demographic changes and consumer behavior changes over the next decade, despite some of the challenges we may see this year, for example, given tariffs and some of the trade challenges but nevertheless and consumer sentiment by virtue of that becoming a little bit more cautious. Obviously, we've had three great years and now we're running into some choppy waters, but the reality is, travelers are going to keep continuing to travel and some of the numbers, ben, I'm actually really reassured to see are coming out of your part of the world, where Australians are still traveling very much so, and outbound travel is much stronger out of Australia now, as we're having this conversation, than it is, say, out of the US at the moment. So hopefully, you guys continue to be in that fortunate position.
Speaker 2:But I just wanted to highlight some of the other things that are evolving with guided touring, and one of them is technology. I know that that is not critical to the delivery of these experiences because of the guide and the coach and the um, but just genuinely keen. As you know, you guys have evolved your websites and you know your social media activity and all the things that you're you know you're doing and moving in the right direction. How important is technology 2025? We don't need to get into AI. There's certainly enough to talk about on that topic. But yeah, in terms of technology, how are you guys looking at that and approaching that and trying to build in a certain functionality to enhance the consumer experience?
Speaker 1:Yeah, technology is constantly evolving, Dan, and I think it is all through the business and, believe it or not, it's also on the operating side and we'll touch on that. But if you think, really, what you're trying to do is, how do you make your from a booking standpoint and engaging an opportunity for people to be able to go in there and book seamlessly and obviously, can put all the information in there? We've got a guest portal as well that the guests can go in and put in their personal details but also highlight some of the things that they might want to do or experience or some of the questions they've got, some of the things that they might want to do or experience or some of the questions they've got and that then flows through to the operations team and particularly to the guide, so that they've got an understanding before the trip starts around. You know what someone might have an interest in or a special request or a special occasion, so that they're aware of these and can start thinking about how they might engage or respond to those or support those as needed might engage or respond to those or support those as needed.
Speaker 1:We've created a series of podcasts in the last year or so to help people understand, like this, dan, exactly. So podcasts help people understand our product and our offering and our experiences and our people. So once again, I think we've got about 20, 21 of those podcasts now. They're short, 15-minute, 10, 15-minute podcast people can easily listen to. We sort of looked upon it as how do people in a time-challenged environment, how can people multitask and how can people learn about us? So, whether it's driving to work or whether it's they're doing something and they can listen to it. They're short podcasts to help explain a little bit more about A to Kings and what we offer and why people should book us.
Speaker 1:And then, as I said, dan, from an operations perspective, we're trying to continue that seamless process through so the information flows through to the people, leading and connecting with the people so that they've got a sense as to how they can personalise that trip for that individual to make sure that they get out of what they want. And you know, dan, you know with tech it's constantly evolving and it's a huge focus for all of us is how do we improve, how to become more seamless and easier to book and work with, how do we make sure that it's easier for us to work with our partners from a connectivity piece to make sure that the information flows through, so that everyone has got as much information as possible that they need to be able to deliver and perform and ensure that our guests, um, you know, get the holidays of a lifetime and they go back to you know that the channels they've booked through, through travel, age etc.
Speaker 2:And pass back the good word of of what a what an experience and how seamless and how enjoyable and how it allowed them to focus on, on, you know, the fun and and the holiday, which is which is the most important thing yeah, for sure, and I think that, uh, you know, when you think about the on trip experience I think that's the part that now is is there's going to be an element of digital companies like tour, optima and some of these platforms that are out there that empower the leaders to connect with the guests on the trip, and so it's going to be interesting to see how that the on-trip evolves.
Speaker 2:But I think what you highlighted for sure is so important to know is the booking process, whether it's B2C or B2B, and the consumer journey, which, ultimately, people just want to know that they've got the security that they've booked with a trusted operator, that they're going to be taken care of when they get to the destination.
Speaker 2:And so the other thing I wanted to ask you about, too, ben, is the importance of team in all of this, because, as AT Kings has continued to evolve and the experiences evolve, one of the key aspects for you is having great people around you, and one of the things that's always stood out to me based on your leadership, is you attract great people that want to work with you, ben, and they also stay, and so you retain great people as well, and I think I can list a number of examples, because we've got a lot of colleagues in common and we recently connected, actually on LinkedIn, with you, recognizing Celia and some of the team members that are part of AT Kings, and I find it heartwarming to see that people are so happy working within the brand, working with you, which is not a surprise to me, but it's great to see your mentorship on this podcast for all those people out there that are looking to get into the industry or come back to the industry is you know someone like yourself, leadership, advice and guidance on you know what it is that enables you to be such a strong and effective leader.
Speaker 2:So I'm sure people have got that sense from our conversation. So I'd love you to put you on the spot now, ben, and get an understanding of how you know, how you, how you approach your vision for AT Kings and how you manage to keep yourself motivated and lead a team that clearly wants to grow the business with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dan, I mean, I've touched on it before and I've talked about people and you know I mean the people that we engage with, obviously directly our staff, and they are critical. But we've obviously got our guests. We've got our key partners that we engage with, obviously directly our staff, and they are critical. But we've obviously got our guests, we've got our key partners that we work with. So you know it is a people-orientated industry. So you need to be. You know, if you enjoy people, then it is the right place to be and there's nothing better.
Speaker 1:You know we all take home a paycheck, but I've always been a big believer. I love recognition. It doesn't have to be monetary. You know, to see a smile on someone's face or to see the inspiration they get from an action is to me as rewarding, as you know, and sometimes more rewarding than the monetary side. So you know, to me it becomes natural. You know you want to see that people are treated individually. So you know, I try and obviously engage with people on a one-to-one basis rather than collective.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it's harder to do but I make a point of, you know, in the office. I walk around the office at least once a day and engage and have eye contact with everyone and stop by and see how they're going and you know if there's any questions they've got. So you know communication's key. I try, and you know I try and have consistent communication to the you know the business, to our partners, and I try and encourage that from my team because I think consistent communication is critical. If people understand where you are, what you're saying, what you're doing when you're doing it, then they're far more comfortable with you know making sure that they fit into it and achieve what you're doing when you're doing it, then they're far more comfortable with you know making sure that they fit into it and achieve what you're hoping to do.
Speaker 1:I encourage people. I mean I'm generally a pretty positive person. So you know, I think you know it is a challenging industry. You know it has its ups and downs, for sure. But I think you need to be positive and you need to believe that, to believe that the next tomorrow is going to be a better day than today and it's going to be a better experience for people. And I think you try and encourage and foster that positiveness and encouragement openly through a business.
Speaker 1:And then you just try and look at people and get a sense of people and understand where people are coming from, because every staff member, every person we deal with as it is on a trip, is different, and so you try and look at people and understand. You know what sort of a day are they having and how do I need to change my approach and my engagement with them to make sure that I'm catering and aware of what they are and maybe what they're going through, because you know we've all got good days, we've all got bad days and really trying to then, you know, give them clarity around a purpose. You know what are we trying to achieve, what is the aim with the end in mind, and then how, the steps. You know the small steps we're going to take to achieve that, and just making sure that you're there to motivate them, keep them on point, keep them targeted and, you know, celebrate the successes, which is critical. So yeah, in a very quick couple of minutes, that probably sums it up, dan.
Speaker 2:No, I think you did a great job of summing it up, because obviously Dave Hosking would highlight to both of us. It's all about the people and the interesting thing I've certainly seen with your leadership there is that you've retained great people and you've brought in new people. So, like, nikki Bruce has come into AAT Kings, so you've got a new head of marketing and then people like Peter Rasmussen, who I always adored seeing Peter, who does the website Every time I'd come to the office, come over to AAT Kings. He'd be wearing a cool new t-shirt with a message on it and he was like I always pick out a new shirt for you and I just like he's part of the culture of the organization and it's like and there's certain people that just continue to be there and thrive and so, yeah, credit to you, ben.
Speaker 2:I really wanted to ask you that because I thought that our listeners could benefit from understanding your approach. But, in terms of where this business is headed, tell us a little bit. I just got a few last questions for you here, but tell us what the vision for AAT Kings is, ben, as you look forward, you know, the next three to five years, how do you see the business evolving. What are some of the things that are happening in 2025 and going into 2026 that our listeners should be paying attention to?
Speaker 1:Look, you know we're evolving our product offering, we're evolving the destinations we go to, and we've sort of talked about that through the course of the podcast. You know, certainly group size is an interesting one for us. You know we do offer small groups through Inspiring Journeys and the larger groups, the Age of Kings. But I think, you know, certainly evolving that small group offering is certainly something that we're focused on. You know, it allows you to go to, you know, a more broader and unique destination than maybe we can go to on some of our other trips.
Speaker 1:So, looking at how, once again, we can open up other parts of Australia and New Zealand to take people to, and really looking at how we can grow those immersive experiences we talked about being able to go into more of people's backyards or to experience more local Indigenous guides, and to really open up the opportunities and the unique offerings that we have to offer. So you know that, along with technology because I think they go parallel is how you evolve that technology piece and how do you, you know, engage with people and how do you then communicate your offerings so people, you know, better understand the opportunity of traveling with you and the benefits of traveling with you. So I think that's all sort of rolled in on our sort of plan over the next few years to continue to evolve and how we've done it over the last couple of years as well. So you know the five-year plan and the success and you know the great results we're seeing. I think is positive that you know we're on the right path and the vision's strong.
Speaker 2:That's great. No, it's really exciting, ben, and I'm certainly keen to track and follow your progress, given our longstanding friendship and continued connection. So I want to make sure that people are able to learn more about AT Kings and find out more to be able to either book a trip with you or to book their guests with you. So you've mentioned the podcast and I want to make sure everyone knows, like the A-List Access podcast which I was actually joking with Ben just before our call started, because we share a friend in Campbell Harris, who runs Global Journeys and he's part of their feedback team that Ben set up and it was one of the things that came up in their conversation was actually you guys just heard a podcast and you guys got on and got one going.
Speaker 2:He's a big fan of podcasts. He's a big fan of podcasts. He's a big fan of our podcasts. Obviously, we both know Campbell quite well, but that's a great way for people to learn more about AT Kings and stay connected to you. But what are some of the other ways they should do? Obviously, they've got the website. You've got yourself, ben, but yeah, what would be the channels you'd point people to?
Speaker 1:Yeah, look, the main ones are the websites. The travel agency, business Podcasts are a great information source. We've also got sales and marketing teams on the ground globally. So certainly reach out to your local sales and marketing teams to support and look out for socials. We're prominent in social channels, certainly present in LinkedIn, certainly Instagram, not so much TikTok, given the demographics, but certainly on the key socials. We're there and highlighting Because I think, dan, it's been great to join you today on the podcast and it's great to talk about and I think we've got brilliant product.
Speaker 1:But sometimes it's very two-dimensional when you talk about it and we know that video is critical these days. So, through the socials Facebook and Instagram in particular, is where we tend to spend a lot of time. It's got great photos, great videos that really highlight the experiences and the offerings and what we do. So join our community on Facebook, linkedin obviously as well, but also on Instagram, and you'll get to visually see what we offer. And I think that just is, if you want to call it, the cherry on the cake of really what we do, because I think there we'll show you our guests enjoying their experiences and our unique offerings and those immersive experience that we treasure and pride ourselves on.
Speaker 2:That's great. I appreciate mentioning those and I'm going to ask you one last question on a personal note, and that is since you've got two young kids, and this is where I mean Ben, obviously I say I've got a great respect and appreciation for you and it's a different dynamic we have because obviously we worked together for so many years. But so I got to. I know you live near John Boulding and, like John, was a big fan of yours as well and a good friend. But yeah, you've got two young kids and I'm assuming you got some plans for travel I have to be careful of saying summer travel because obviously you're flipped in terms of seasons but yeah, in terms of your personal travel for 2020-25, what's the next big family trip that you guys have planned?
Speaker 1:Well, we're bouncing between two. I mean, dan, you know I love travel to the point where I'd go traveling tomorrow and travel the rest of my life I could. But yeah, we're currently sort of debating whether we go to the Kimberleys, which is the sort of northwest region of Australia and stunning scenery and landscapes and gorges and water and waterfalls etc. Or going to New Zealand, and you know the scenery of New Zealand and the wonderful, friendly nature of New Zealand. It all has to offer there. Yeah, I think we're leaning towards the Kimberley, but either either. If it's not New Zealand this year, then certainly be next year. And you know, conversely, I want to get back to Europe and see all my great friends there. I love North America. You know, as I said, dan, the list is long and it teases me on a daily basis. But you know, I've been lucky and privileged to see a lot of the world and I look forward to seeing more of it, including my own backyard in Australia and New Zealand, in the coming years.
Speaker 2:Well, I was really hoping you were going to say Toronto and you're going to be here in a few weeks and I was going to say, perfect, we can stay at our house and we can put you up and have a barbecue. The time will come. You've certainly inspired me before on trips that you've taken and educated me on places that I should go to. So that was actually one of the reasons I wanted to ask you that question, because I would certainly gladly follow in your footsteps after you make a recommendation. So I'll be keen to know exactly what you decide and look forward to catching up with you again once you've had that trip, because the Kimberley sounds amazing, amazing, and the place I need to get to Ben at some point is the top end. It's the only part of Australia we didn't get to and it's still. It haunts me a little bit. I'm like I've got to get to Darwin, I've got to get to Kakadu National Park, and so I look forward to coming back to Australia and hopefully seeing you and then obviously having a chance to experience that part of the country.
Speaker 2:But I just I'm thrilled that we had this time to have the conversation together and actually make this part of this guided touring series, and the four brands that we brought together for this were, you know, the four of the great leading companies in this space.
Speaker 2:You know, we started off with Globus, and then we had Colette, and then Explore and now, of course, we've had this conversation. Ben, that kind of brings the guided tour series to a close, and I'm really keen to continue this conversation in season six. So I definitely encourage any of you listening to this not only to connect with all the partners you've heard from on this podcast, but also give us feedback and let us know where you want to take this conversation next, because I would just be only too delighted to speak to Ben again. So give us some comments on the social channels, as Ben called out, and we look forward to continuing this conversation in season six. But, ben, thank you so much. Best to the family, wish you much continued success, best to the team as well, and say look forward to keeping in touch, my friend.
Speaker 1:Thanks, dan, and to you and to your audience as well. I mean, you know, appreciate the the time people have taken to listen to us and, and you know, I think it's a great industry and people are better for having traveled and enjoyed it. So best stand to you. Look forward to catching up soon.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much for joining us on our latest episode of Travel Trends and our final episode in our multi-day tour guided series. I certainly enjoyed reconnecting with Ben Hall, the CEO of AAT Kings. I hope you enjoyed this conversation as well, as well as the discussions with Globus and Colette and Explore. I'm definitely keen to continue this theme into season six, so be sure to reach out and let us know if you want to feature any specific brands or individuals, and we'll look to bring them into next season's series. We have a number of exciting developments planned for season six, but one of the other major developments that we just announced this week is our AI Summit. For those of you who are joining at the very beginning of this podcast, we just announced that in our newsletter this week, so be sure to register TravelTrendsPodcastcom, find out more information about speaking, sponsoring or attending that event, which is going to be virtual so you can attend anywhere in the world, and we are about to embark on a series of events. We're going to be in Miami shortly for the Aviation Festival, then Adventure Travel and Trade Conference in Denver, and then I'll be at the Focusrite Conference in Barcelona in June, so be sure to reach out, too, if you're going to be at any of those events I'd love to be able to record with many of our listeners that work across the industry to be able to showcase what you've been working on, and of our listeners that work across the industry to be able to showcase what you've been working on, and hopefully we'll have a chance to do that with many of you at our AI Summit in October. I also just wanted to say a special thanks again to the team at Tor Optima and Ben specifically for sponsoring this multi-day tour series that I was really keen to bring together and, as you've heard multiple times now, I am an investor and an advisor and I'm very bullish on the multi-day tour category and, seeing the platform that Ben had built, I am very optimistic about the future for partners on that platform. So if you're interested in having a better guest experience, there's no better platform out there than Tour Optima. That is, as feature, complete and you can find out more information just by checking out touroptimacom or sending an email to ben at touroptimacom to arrange a demo. So thanks again to ben and the team and we look forward to having you guys back.
Speaker 2:As part of season six, we also have a number of sponsors lined up already for season six, which I'm thrilled about.
Speaker 2:One of them is civi tatas, the ota that's based out of spain, and they're actually going to be featured in next week's episode.
Speaker 2:We thought it would be a good transition, as we move from multi-day tour to river cruise, to bring on an OTA. So we're going to speak to Civitatis next week. We're also going to be speaking to Expedia as part of season five, and then we're also going to be speaking to the founder of Viator season five and then we're also going to be speaking to the founder of viator, and I will save that conversation likely for the end of the season to wrap things up, because it was such a fascinating conversation I had with rod cuthbert, and I think it'll be a perfect way to close out season five after we do our in destination series in partnership with panora car. So there's lots to look forward to still in the season five. So make sure that you are registered on the streaming platform of your choice to get updates when our new episodes go live, and be sure to check out our social channels for clips and highlights. And until next week, safe travels.
